Updates on the status of Linux
-
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:10 pm
- Location: Philadelphia
Updates on the status of Linux
Hi all.
A few years ago I looked into the Linux OS partly as a hobby/curiosity and partly to see if it could replace Windows as a day-to-day OS. Linux ran pretty well on an old box I had but it had troubles with newer hardware of my then-current (2014) machine which had UEFI and secure boot etc.
As time passed I started to just use Win 8.1 as my go-to OS and lost interest in Linux. However the recent nagging by Microsoft to upgrade to Win 10 and the stories of data gathering by Windows 10 has irked me enough to give Linux another look. It looks like Linux is up-to-date enough to handle my 2014 vintage hardware, but I am curious as to whether Linux has become any more or less viable in general. I sure would like to get out from under the yolk of MS, at least for day-to-day computing. Besides... Linux is fun when it works!
My tentative plan is to use Win10 only when absolutely necessary and Linux all other times. That will at least stop the Win10 nags.
Any computer folks care to opine? Thanks.
A few years ago I looked into the Linux OS partly as a hobby/curiosity and partly to see if it could replace Windows as a day-to-day OS. Linux ran pretty well on an old box I had but it had troubles with newer hardware of my then-current (2014) machine which had UEFI and secure boot etc.
As time passed I started to just use Win 8.1 as my go-to OS and lost interest in Linux. However the recent nagging by Microsoft to upgrade to Win 10 and the stories of data gathering by Windows 10 has irked me enough to give Linux another look. It looks like Linux is up-to-date enough to handle my 2014 vintage hardware, but I am curious as to whether Linux has become any more or less viable in general. I sure would like to get out from under the yolk of MS, at least for day-to-day computing. Besides... Linux is fun when it works!
My tentative plan is to use Win10 only when absolutely necessary and Linux all other times. That will at least stop the Win10 nags.
Any computer folks care to opine? Thanks.
After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art. Chopin
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
May or may not be on topic:
Despite the developers touting it as the next best thing that will revolutionize everything, I've not met a single person that not only liked, but didn't hate Ubuntu's Unity interface. I'd go with Linux Mint these days if you don't need to use any specialized software (not sure anymore what's not available these days). I've learned that software development in Linux is hand-over-fist easier and faster than Windows.
Ubuntu still doesn't support dual displays out-of-the-box with my Dell dock.
Despite the developers touting it as the next best thing that will revolutionize everything, I've not met a single person that not only liked, but didn't hate Ubuntu's Unity interface. I'd go with Linux Mint these days if you don't need to use any specialized software (not sure anymore what's not available these days). I've learned that software development in Linux is hand-over-fist easier and faster than Windows.
Ubuntu still doesn't support dual displays out-of-the-box with my Dell dock.
-
- Posts: 141
- Joined: Tue Feb 09, 2016 9:29 am
- Location: Tucson, Arizona
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Slim checking in from Tucson. Am in a coworking space and right next to me is a guy who's running Linux on his laptop. Earlier today, he was having connectivity problems with the WiFi. He attributed them to Linux.
Me? I'm hardwired into the Ethernet and am on Windows. For now. When I can afford to do so, this Win7 laptop is going to be replaced by a Mac.
Me? I'm hardwired into the Ethernet and am on Windows. For now. When I can afford to do so, this Win7 laptop is going to be replaced by a Mac.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I've had learning more about *nix on the to do list for about 10 years now.
The thing that I never can get get over is just bad their GUI is. I get the power of using a command line, but even a power user should never have never HAVE to use the command line or editing a configuration file to get their work done.
The thing that I never can get get over is just bad their GUI is. I get the power of using a command line, but even a power user should never have never HAVE to use the command line or editing a configuration file to get their work done.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
You may find some multimedia files e.g. .wmv... won't run on linux media player... and some document sharing could be a problem as well. .. but many are willing to work around these kinds of issues... try out the Raspberry Pi 2.. for about $30.... plus the cost of an SD card, you're off to the races.
-
- Posts: 57
- Joined: Sat Jun 14, 2014 10:57 am
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
After I purchased a laptop with Windows 10 and installed Ubuntu as dual-boot, I used mostly Linux over not only Windows 10, but also my Macbook. I don't hate Unity, and like its capability to be tweaked to details. Unity-tweak-tool is a handy swiss knife to tweak appearance, Ubuntu software center and Synaptic packages manager are app stores to discover and install useful softwares that rival PC world. Recommend to give Ubuntu a try.
I've been a Mac guy for 10 years, and the last straw is its restrictions on upgrading parts of their products. Never liked or heavily used Windows and impression is it's slow, heavy and unproductive to use.
I've been a Mac guy for 10 years, and the last straw is its restrictions on upgrading parts of their products. Never liked or heavily used Windows and impression is it's slow, heavy and unproductive to use.
-
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:42 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I think Linux's heyday has passed. Back in the 2000s there was more buzz around Linux as a PC replacement because Windows was closed/bad and Macs still ran on Power PC. Then two things happened. Apple started using Intel chips and released OSX, which is the best version of Linux out there (really, it's UNIX). Then Microsoft began opening up and Windows versions improved from the Vista awfulness. On the whole, Microsoft became slightly better while Apple stole Linux's march.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux has passed its heyday.
We are moving into a world of non-OS centric software and apps, and your operating system will matter less and less.
I'd argue that the rise of Android has pushed Linux into the background, and will continue to do so since Android is best positioned to conquer both mobile (the fastest growing segment) and the desktops (which are becoming more and more like mobile workstations.)
Linux was much more important when your only options were $100+ clunky windows software or a Mac. Now you don't even need either to run a Chromebook which is good enough for the majority of computer users out there.
Linux won't disappear though - it's very good for computer science types for tinkering with the ins and outs of a computer system for various purposes, which is much harder to do in the much less open software of Microsoft or Apple.
We are moving into a world of non-OS centric software and apps, and your operating system will matter less and less.
I'd argue that the rise of Android has pushed Linux into the background, and will continue to do so since Android is best positioned to conquer both mobile (the fastest growing segment) and the desktops (which are becoming more and more like mobile workstations.)
Linux was much more important when your only options were $100+ clunky windows software or a Mac. Now you don't even need either to run a Chromebook which is good enough for the majority of computer users out there.
Linux won't disappear though - it's very good for computer science types for tinkering with the ins and outs of a computer system for various purposes, which is much harder to do in the much less open software of Microsoft or Apple.
- triceratop
- Posts: 5838
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:20 pm
- Location: la la land
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Really? So if I don't like how Apple designed one component what are my options? Pay them to change it / add a feature just for me? I doubt they care about me individually.Heir-A-Parent wrote:I think Linux's heyday has passed. Back in the 2000s there was more buzz around Linux as a PC replacement because Windows was closed/bad and Macs still ran on Power PC. Then two things happened. Apple started using Intel chips and released OSX, which is the best version of Linux out there (really, it's UNIX). Then Microsoft began opening up and Windows versions improved from the Vista awfulness. On the whole, Microsoft became slightly better while Apple stole Linux's march.
My point is that an OS is a utility and its "heyday" is only measured in its ability to achieve what you need it to. Simply because Mac overtook Windows doesn't reduce Linux's utility.
We would need to compare actual ability to accomplish tasks.
@DartThrower: I have only ever used Linux in my life, so the only comparison I can make is that I have never before experienced a better suite of software. The driver situation is also better than ever before. Thinkpad laptops with Linux are a joy.
Android is both open-source like Linux and actually based on the Linux kernel.lightheir wrote:I'd argue that the rise of Android has pushed Linux into the background, and will continue to do so since Android is best positioned to conquer both mobile (the fastest growing segment) and the desktops (which are becoming more and more like mobile workstations.)
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I'd still argue that despite the inclusion of the kernel, the fundamental approach to the phone or computer is dramatically different between Android vs Linux. They're very, very different for the user in execution.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Said differently, the personal computer has passed its heyday; Linux is an OS for personal computers.lightheir wrote:Linux has passed its heyday.
We are moving into a world of non-OS centric software and apps, and your operating system will matter less and less.
But I still use Linux to run my home-brew DVR (MythTV).
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
User interface is going to vary greatly from distro to distro (and really even within each distro with different desktop environments).
Linux Mint was mentioned above as a good distro to try if moving from Windows. I agree regarding the slick Cinnamon or Mate desktop environments and out-of-the-box availability of a lot of non-open-source stuff, but the recent hack of their repo in February scares me at least a little.
I use Windows at work and both Mac and Linux at home. Personally, of Linux distros I'm partial to LXLE, which I use on my old laptop. LXLE has desktop modes that put their equivalent of a start menu in different places, with the default option being at bottom left to make Windows migrants feel at home. It's relatively light on resources and is supplied with plenty of great open source apps out of the box so new users can get started quickly. I actually don't mind digging into the command line from time to time, but I'm having trouble thinking of a time I absolutely had to on LXLE. Might be worth at least giving LXLE a try in VirtualBox before you make up your mind: http://www.lxle.net/
Linux Mint was mentioned above as a good distro to try if moving from Windows. I agree regarding the slick Cinnamon or Mate desktop environments and out-of-the-box availability of a lot of non-open-source stuff, but the recent hack of their repo in February scares me at least a little.
I use Windows at work and both Mac and Linux at home. Personally, of Linux distros I'm partial to LXLE, which I use on my old laptop. LXLE has desktop modes that put their equivalent of a start menu in different places, with the default option being at bottom left to make Windows migrants feel at home. It's relatively light on resources and is supplied with plenty of great open source apps out of the box so new users can get started quickly. I actually don't mind digging into the command line from time to time, but I'm having trouble thinking of a time I absolutely had to on LXLE. Might be worth at least giving LXLE a try in VirtualBox before you make up your mind: http://www.lxle.net/
-
- Posts: 70
- Joined: Sun Feb 05, 2012 10:42 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux will flourish running on internet of things devices since it's free and compact. But I think the goal of Linux as a fully-featured graphical OS was never realized. Most developers, who are the people who actually still need personal computers, would still prefer a Mac to Linux.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
UEFI continues to be a problem for Linux--or, really, for any non-Microsoft OS. See
http://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to- ... cure-boot/
https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/8 ... ecure-boot
Your best bet is probably to buy a PC certified to work with Linux. There are a lot of fun little boxes, Intel NUCs and the like, that run Linux perfectly happily.
http://www.howtogeek.com/175641/how-to- ... cure-boot/
https://www.linux.com/learn/tutorials/8 ... ecure-boot
Your best bet is probably to buy a PC certified to work with Linux. There are a lot of fun little boxes, Intel NUCs and the like, that run Linux perfectly happily.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
One of my top two favorite distros is CentOS 6. The problem is that Red Hat and the community might yank support sometime around 2020.
I tried CentOS 7 and I don't care for it at all.
I tried CentOS 7 and I don't care for it at all.
- triceratop
- Posts: 5838
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:20 pm
- Location: la la land
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Myth users unite! (well, I haven't used it since 0.24)oxothuk wrote:Said differently, the personal computer has passed its heyday; Linux is an OS for personal computers.lightheir wrote:Linux has passed its heyday.
We are moving into a world of non-OS centric software and apps, and your operating system will matter less and less.
But I still use Linux to run my home-brew DVR (MythTV).
I think your larger point is right on. If you still have a need for a personal computer (software dev, science, productivity) then Linux is a fine OS.
I disagree with the prevailing sentiment on this thread that Mac is somehow preferable for devs. Anyway, no discussion of Linux would be complete without mentioning that most web servers and supercomputers will continue to run Linux regardless of its broader use for workstations and desktops. You don't have to worry about Linux no longer being developed and having a workflow and OS that is not upgradeable.
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
It comes down to what you want to do IMO. I have at least one of most things, including a linux laptop that I use mainly to browse the web. If you stay in the browser you cannot tell the difference, if you step into the file system it's much of a muchness, although agree the UI is clunky compared to osx, windows or even chrome (the os). If you want to run applications - depends a great deal on what they are as to how bad linux gets and it can get bad!.
|
Rob |
Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
- triceratop
- Posts: 5838
- Joined: Tue Aug 04, 2015 8:20 pm
- Location: la la land
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Or how good the software can be: e.g. while the accounting software on Linux is excellent (GnuCash is my preference) the ability to tailor it to your particular needs is a godsend not found on Mac/Windows (though there exist Windows/Mac versions as well).
"To play the stock market is to play musical chairs under the chord progression of a bid-ask spread."
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
For that type of usage, a Chromebook works pretty well.rob wrote:It comes down to what you want to do IMO. I have at least one of most things, including a linux laptop that I use mainly to browse the web. If you stay in the browser you cannot tell the difference,
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Google Chrome OS is built on Linux, but pretty much covers up any Linux specific functionality. It does everything I need.
I also have a Raspbery PI running Linux as well that I "geek out" with and play some retro arcade games etc...
I do a lot of stuff on my Android devices...
I haven't had to power up my old Windows box in years. Not sure how much longer I'll even hang onto it.
I also have a Raspbery PI running Linux as well that I "geek out" with and play some retro arcade games etc...
I do a lot of stuff on my Android devices...
I haven't had to power up my old Windows box in years. Not sure how much longer I'll even hang onto it.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I tried various Linux distros between 2005-2008 but then used Windows exclusively up until last year. I was impressed when I came back to Linux. Things like wifi connectivity or plug-and-play removable media, which never seemed to work 10 years ago, now work "out-of-the-box" even with a very minimalist distro (Archbang for my eight year-old laptop; the latest Ubuntu or Mint might be great but won't run on this machine). With that said, it's still not for the average person who cannot or doesn't want to understand what's going on inside, or how to use the command line.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Bogleheads is great for financial advice, not so much for advice on tech matters.
Any commonly used Linux distro will serve the needs of the average Joe. You won't necessarily break something unless you try to do it or don't know what you're doing. Hardly any security concerns. Works especially great if you're trying to get some use out of your chunky old 2007 2GB RAM Toshiba.
There is almost always a solution for any problem you may face. The Open Source Community is great indeed!
Download Ubuntu and you shouldn't need to know any commands or scripting to do common things!
Any commonly used Linux distro will serve the needs of the average Joe. You won't necessarily break something unless you try to do it or don't know what you're doing. Hardly any security concerns. Works especially great if you're trying to get some use out of your chunky old 2007 2GB RAM Toshiba.
There is almost always a solution for any problem you may face. The Open Source Community is great indeed!
Download Ubuntu and you shouldn't need to know any commands or scripting to do common things!
- happyisland
- Posts: 908
- Joined: Thu Oct 03, 2013 1:36 pm
- Location: nos baranca tan stima
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I've been using Ubuntu for the past 10 years (after getting falsely accused by Microsoft of using a pirated copy of XP, and realizing it was a bit weird how much control Microsoft had over my computer). In 2006 it was still a bit rough around the edges, with frequent trips to the command line to set up wifi, displays, etc. That is all in the past. Now, a modern distribution like Ubuntu works pretty much flawlessly, and requires virtually no effort to maintain. For example, my partner is completely non-technical, and she never asks me to fix anything on her computer. The lack of viruses, the stability of the OS, the absence of a company (Apple or Microsoft) constantly trying to sell you stuff are all fantastic. And to me it's very similar to the Bogleheads philosophy in the sense that the cheapest option is also the best.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I'm writing this from a Linux box; and two of my other computers are running Linux. By magnitudes these computers running Linux are more stable than other operating systems I've used over the last 31 years. I rarely open my Windows laptop anymore.
Emotionless, prognostication free investing. Ignoring the noise and economists since 1979. Getting rich off of "smart people's" behavioral mistakes.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
If you like Windows 8 except for the upgrade requests, there is a simple solution -- just use GWX Control Panel to turn them off. This should be a good solution until Windows 8 expires in 2023.
Current Linux distributions generally can run on PCs from 2014. It is still possible that whatever specific problem(s) you encountered before is still there -- most 2014 Linux distributions could work on 2014 PCs too. UEFI is generally not a problem as you can just turn off secure boot if you can't get your distribution to support it, though it might be a problem on cheap tablet/netbook style PCs that have 32-bit UEFI only. Wireless adapters may cause a problem but wired Ethernet is far less likely to cause a problem, so you could just switch to wired (and turn off wireless in the BIOS/UEFI settings) to skip past the wireless problems.
Current Linux distributions generally can run on PCs from 2014. It is still possible that whatever specific problem(s) you encountered before is still there -- most 2014 Linux distributions could work on 2014 PCs too. UEFI is generally not a problem as you can just turn off secure boot if you can't get your distribution to support it, though it might be a problem on cheap tablet/netbook style PCs that have 32-bit UEFI only. Wireless adapters may cause a problem but wired Ethernet is far less likely to cause a problem, so you could just switch to wired (and turn off wireless in the BIOS/UEFI settings) to skip past the wireless problems.
- stevewolfe
- Posts: 1672
- Joined: Fri Oct 10, 2008 7:07 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
The highlighted part of this statement is wildly inaccurate IMHO (no offense intended to the OP). There are many different sites with statistics for OS's used for hosting websites. Linux is typically ~70% of the websites. A friend of mine worked for a very large credit card company and they consolidated a few thousand distributed unix machines onto a couple HP Superdome machines running Linux instances. Many z OS mainframe customers run Linux. We just built out 7 new websites on Linux on IBM P-Series midrange machines replacing a number of AIX LPARs. The container revolution ecosystem around Docker runs on Linux as the reference implementation, etc.oxothuk wrote:Said differently, the personal computer has passed its heyday; Linux is an OS for personal computers.
Bottom line Linux is thriving, and in some segments dominant, on the server side and in the cloud.
As an aside, I'm posting this from a Linux machine (Ubuntu 14.04 LTS with *shudder* Unity desktop). I've been using Linux since 1995, installed my first distro (Slackware) from 1.44 MB floppy diskettes (kernel 1.19 or 1.21 from memory).
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Chromebooks run on Chromium OS which is a Linux-based OS.lightheir wrote:Linux has passed its heyday.
....
Linux was much more important when your only options were $100+ clunky windows software or a Mac. Now you don't even need either to run a Chromebook which is good enough for the majority of computer users out there.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux is good. But I upgraded to windows 10 so if there was a problem at a brokerage I could prove my security. That might be a problem if you were using Linux and had money stole from your brokerage account.
Disclaimer: You might lose money doing anything I say. Although that was not my intent. |
Favorite song: Sometimes He Whispers Jay Parrack
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
The DistroWatch website has a lot of helpful information. The right hand side of the main page provides a page hit ranking for all the popular distros. Linux Mint is at the top of the list.
http://distrowatch.com/
I tried close to 20 distros with a ten year old computer and low end processor. The motherboard based graphics adapter on the computer had compatibility issues and 3D video drivers were not available for many of the recent distributions. The computer did work quite well with distributions designed for older hardware such as Lubuntu. Overall, I liked Linux for Internet use and the Libre Office applications.
Many forums are available for help including the Ubuntu Forum and the Mint Forum.
http://distrowatch.com/
I tried close to 20 distros with a ten year old computer and low end processor. The motherboard based graphics adapter on the computer had compatibility issues and 3D video drivers were not available for many of the recent distributions. The computer did work quite well with distributions designed for older hardware such as Lubuntu. Overall, I liked Linux for Internet use and the Libre Office applications.
Many forums are available for help including the Ubuntu Forum and the Mint Forum.
Enjoying the Outdoors
- whodidntante
- Posts: 13090
- Joined: Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:11 pm
- Location: outside the echo chamber
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux is fine for certain purposes. We have a high spec Linux server at work that we use for software development and couldn't be happier.
As a desktop OS, it's passable but lacking. Mainstream vendors consider Linux support far down the list of priorities, some make no effort whatsoever, and some are even hostile to the efforts of volunteers. So for example, if you have the latest graphics card, don't expect it to perform as well on Linux, and you're actually lucky if it works glitch free. Same with all those magic buttons on a laptop, or even getting it to suspend, hibernate, and have reasonable battery life. Wifi will work, maybe. This is not the fault of Linux, because there are some configurations that work. It's a side effect of vendors not putting Linux as a high priority.
Then there is software. If everything you need is Linux native, you are golden. But if you plan on using Windows software on Linux, well, prepare for a second class experience. Emulators and Wine are never quite as good as you hope them to be.
Windows 7/8/10 is far better as a desktop OS in practice for most people. If you are an exception, you will typically know that in advance.
As a desktop OS, it's passable but lacking. Mainstream vendors consider Linux support far down the list of priorities, some make no effort whatsoever, and some are even hostile to the efforts of volunteers. So for example, if you have the latest graphics card, don't expect it to perform as well on Linux, and you're actually lucky if it works glitch free. Same with all those magic buttons on a laptop, or even getting it to suspend, hibernate, and have reasonable battery life. Wifi will work, maybe. This is not the fault of Linux, because there are some configurations that work. It's a side effect of vendors not putting Linux as a high priority.
Then there is software. If everything you need is Linux native, you are golden. But if you plan on using Windows software on Linux, well, prepare for a second class experience. Emulators and Wine are never quite as good as you hope them to be.
Windows 7/8/10 is far better as a desktop OS in practice for most people. If you are an exception, you will typically know that in advance.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I've been using Linux for so long that I find myself complaining when I'm at work how much harder Windows is to use and how things just don't work as easily as when I'm at home. It really is a very boring experience, in a good way.
-
- Posts: 2500
- Joined: Tue Aug 16, 2011 12:39 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Its time to go retro, see if you can get ahold of OS2 Warp. I ran that for a few months in 1994
Ive run almost every OS built for PCs. I stick with windows for the day to day desktops and linux for the servers.
Windows 10 is a vast improvement over 8, Windows 7 was my most stable OS aside from the DOS days.
I agree with a lot of the comments, the OS is becoming less and less important.
Ive run almost every OS built for PCs. I stick with windows for the day to day desktops and linux for the servers.
Windows 10 is a vast improvement over 8, Windows 7 was my most stable OS aside from the DOS days.
I agree with a lot of the comments, the OS is becoming less and less important.
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety." - Benjamin Franklin
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
My husband is a computer person (profession and hobby) and he uses Linux. He would put it on all computers in our house if I let him. But my experience, admittedly a few years ago, was that some videos and pictures did not work on Linux and it frustrated me.
I believe him that technically Linux is better and meets his needs.
But practically, Windows is better for me since it is more common.
He says Windows crashes more and is more virus prone.
I think it depends on your technical skills. I have no ability to change my computer operating system to Linux. My husband enjoys doing that kind of thing. He also sets computers up to run both Linux and windows for the times he needs to use Windows.
lafder
I believe him that technically Linux is better and meets his needs.
But practically, Windows is better for me since it is more common.
He says Windows crashes more and is more virus prone.
I think it depends on your technical skills. I have no ability to change my computer operating system to Linux. My husband enjoys doing that kind of thing. He also sets computers up to run both Linux and windows for the times he needs to use Windows.
lafder
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
What do you use your computer to do? What applications do you run?
If you need to run specific applications that are only built for Windows or OS X, then Linux won't be an easy solution for you. If you primarily play games on your computer, then Linux won't have the breadth of choice that Windows does. On the other hand, if you use your computer to browse the Internet, listen to music, watch videos, edit text, edit or view images, write emails, do bookkeeping, or act as a server of some sort, then Linux may work out very well for you.
The majority of the commercial applications that exist on Windows aren't natively on Linux, so (for example) you will find that you can't pay Microsoft for a license to run MS Office. You can, however, download the open-source "LibreOffice" for free. Will it work for you? I don't know. I only know it works for me. Lots of the open source applications that you'd use on Linux are also available on Windows. You could install LibreOffice and Thunderbird and Firefox and VLC and GNUCash onto your Windows PC, and see what you think of them.
You could also "test drive" Linux by installing it into a VirtualBox VM, which is given away for free.
It's probably worth pointing out that "The Linux Desktop" isn't some monolithic thing in the way that Windows or OS X are. There are dozens of choices of "Window Managers" and "Desktop Environments", which are the things that put the little edges and buttons on your windows, provide icons and taskbars and "Start Menu" type things and so on. There are a few giant popular choices and tons of smaller projects. This is both a strength (so much choice!) and a weakness (so much choice!).
If you want to try Linux again, I personally would echo the suggestion to try out some recent version of "Linux Mint" and go with one of their default choices. If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to try to help.
Having said all this, you can probably tell that I'm a tech geek. I have a desktop PC, two laptops, a server, and several little ARM devices scattered around under my roof. One of them (the desktop) runs Windows, and all of them run Linux. I totally get that Linux isn't for everyone. It works very well for me.
If you need to run specific applications that are only built for Windows or OS X, then Linux won't be an easy solution for you. If you primarily play games on your computer, then Linux won't have the breadth of choice that Windows does. On the other hand, if you use your computer to browse the Internet, listen to music, watch videos, edit text, edit or view images, write emails, do bookkeeping, or act as a server of some sort, then Linux may work out very well for you.
The majority of the commercial applications that exist on Windows aren't natively on Linux, so (for example) you will find that you can't pay Microsoft for a license to run MS Office. You can, however, download the open-source "LibreOffice" for free. Will it work for you? I don't know. I only know it works for me. Lots of the open source applications that you'd use on Linux are also available on Windows. You could install LibreOffice and Thunderbird and Firefox and VLC and GNUCash onto your Windows PC, and see what you think of them.
You could also "test drive" Linux by installing it into a VirtualBox VM, which is given away for free.
It's probably worth pointing out that "The Linux Desktop" isn't some monolithic thing in the way that Windows or OS X are. There are dozens of choices of "Window Managers" and "Desktop Environments", which are the things that put the little edges and buttons on your windows, provide icons and taskbars and "Start Menu" type things and so on. There are a few giant popular choices and tons of smaller projects. This is both a strength (so much choice!) and a weakness (so much choice!).
If you want to try Linux again, I personally would echo the suggestion to try out some recent version of "Linux Mint" and go with one of their default choices. If you have any specific questions I'd be happy to try to help.
Having said all this, you can probably tell that I'm a tech geek. I have a desktop PC, two laptops, a server, and several little ARM devices scattered around under my roof. One of them (the desktop) runs Windows, and all of them run Linux. I totally get that Linux isn't for everyone. It works very well for me.
-
- Posts: 305
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2015 5:30 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Been using Linux off & on since late 90's. Recent distro's are quite good. I'm currently running openSuse on a Dell Vostro i-7. As some mentioned, there are programs that won't run because vendors will not develop for a rather small market place.
For TurboTax I run windows in a virtual machine. That runs better and faster than xp that ran on a IBM Thinkpad. I don't run games or do video editing so support for the latest & greatest video cards are not important to me. That support will eventually be provided by the very active open source community.
There is certainly a learning curve is you only ever used windows. It really boils down to what are your needs.
For TurboTax I run windows in a virtual machine. That runs better and faster than xp that ran on a IBM Thinkpad. I don't run games or do video editing so support for the latest & greatest video cards are not important to me. That support will eventually be provided by the very active open source community.
There is certainly a learning curve is you only ever used windows. It really boils down to what are your needs.
- saltycaper
- Posts: 2650
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:47 pm
- Location: The Tower
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux is doing better than ever. Due to its use in embedded systems and servers, there are probably more running instances of the Linux operating system and its variants than any other OS in the world.
But, on the desktop, I don't think much has changed in the past few years as far as how suitable a replacement it is for a Windows machine. Because of its relatively small install base, fragmented userspace experience, and sometimes unpredictable and uneven development schedule (at least at the user level), it can result in some frustration. Software compatibility--not just for one's own needs but also for collaborating with others--is the biggest question to address individually, assuming needed hardware will work. Otherwise, trying it out is really the only way to tell if it's a viable desktop OS for you.
Someone mentioned OSX as a sort of version of Linux, but OSX is rooted in BSD, not Linux. The two (BSD and Linux) followed different development paths, and even though they may share a Unix heritage, I think the Linux nut fell further from the Unix tree. Heck, the supporting components of the Linux operating system that predate the Linux kernel were started by the GNU Project--GNU's Not Unix. Different licensing schemes and the proprietary nature of Unix also played a role in the evolution of each.
But, on the desktop, I don't think much has changed in the past few years as far as how suitable a replacement it is for a Windows machine. Because of its relatively small install base, fragmented userspace experience, and sometimes unpredictable and uneven development schedule (at least at the user level), it can result in some frustration. Software compatibility--not just for one's own needs but also for collaborating with others--is the biggest question to address individually, assuming needed hardware will work. Otherwise, trying it out is really the only way to tell if it's a viable desktop OS for you.
Someone mentioned OSX as a sort of version of Linux, but OSX is rooted in BSD, not Linux. The two (BSD and Linux) followed different development paths, and even though they may share a Unix heritage, I think the Linux nut fell further from the Unix tree. Heck, the supporting components of the Linux operating system that predate the Linux kernel were started by the GNU Project--GNU's Not Unix. Different licensing schemes and the proprietary nature of Unix also played a role in the evolution of each.
Quod vitae sectabor iter?
- oldcomputerguy
- Moderator
- Posts: 17878
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Sounds like a plan. I first became interested in Linux back in 1994, started using it on a daily basis around 1998, and have used it as my primary environment ever since. Unless I need to connect to my workplace (or sync my iPod), I never use Windows of any flavor at home. (The times I need to connect to work, I just bring up Windows XP inside a VirtualBox virtual machine under Linux. That did involve a bit of set-up, but it works pretty well.)DartThrower wrote: My tentative plan is to use Win10 only when absolutely necessary and Linux all other times. That will at least stop the Win10 nags.
+1 for the earlier comment re Linux Mint, that's the flavor I use and like it pretty well. I normally use either the Xfce or Cinnamon desktop, never did like Unity. Mint includes builds of just about everything I need or want (web browsers, email, text editors, office suite, multimedia, development, graphics).
That being said, I look at the Windows/Linux debate as I do the active-management/index-fund debate. If you prefer Windows, then fine, go ahead, but at least you should know that there is a better alternative, especially if you don't need anything Windows-specific. (For example, if you need to run TurboTax, you're pretty much stuck with Windows, as there is no Linux version as far as I know.)
Oh, and did I mention that I don't worry nearly as much about viruses?
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
- oldcomputerguy
- Moderator
- Posts: 17878
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux certainly won't disappear, since it is in fact the underlying kernel OS for both Android and Chromebook's ChromeOS.lightheir wrote:Linux has passed its heyday.
We are moving into a world of non-OS centric software and apps, and your operating system will matter less and less.
I'd argue that the rise of Android has pushed Linux into the background, and will continue to do so since Android is best positioned to conquer both mobile (the fastest growing segment) and the desktops (which are becoming more and more like mobile workstations.)
Linux was much more important when your only options were $100+ clunky windows software or a Mac. Now you don't even need either to run a Chromebook which is good enough for the majority of computer users out there.
Linux won't disappear though - it's very good for computer science types for tinkering with the ins and outs of a computer system for various purposes, which is much harder to do in the much less open software of Microsoft or Apple.
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Linux is a fine OS if your primary computer activities don't require a Windows specific application (Quicken, etc.). If your primary apps are a browser and email, then modern Linux is good enough. (I find it difficult to justify the cost of a Windows license if all you do is surf and email.) If you game, Steam has a lot of Linux games available.
My preferred Linux distros are Ubuntu based. I find Ubuntu has the best hardware support. But if you don't like the Unity GUI there are Ubuntu versions with alternative interfaces: Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
That said, Windows 10 has gotten better since release as MS has pushed updates. Turn off the active tiles and dial up the privacy settings and it's not so bad now.
My preferred Linux distros are Ubuntu based. I find Ubuntu has the best hardware support. But if you don't like the Unity GUI there are Ubuntu versions with alternative interfaces: Lubuntu, Kubuntu, Xubuntu, etc.
That said, Windows 10 has gotten better since release as MS has pushed updates. Turn off the active tiles and dial up the privacy settings and it's not so bad now.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Hello! I agree that Linux Mint is better, though.autonomy wrote:I've not met a single person that not only liked, but didn't hate Ubuntu's Unity interface.
The Linux kernel and its descendants are absolutely ubiquitous today, whether on servers, IOT firmware, or Android phones. The Linuxes as a desktop experience for the average consumer are probably in decline, but so is every desktop OS because the desktop itself is disappearing from many people's lives. The large distros still have large stable dev communities and should be viable for many years.
I run dual-boot Windows 7 and Ubuntu on my desktop. Were it not for gaming I would use Linux exclusively (probably moving away from Ubuntu at some point). Because gaming is just about all I do on my desktop anymore, it stays in Win 7. I have no intention of moving to a newer Windows release. Hopefully Steam and other platforms will manage to fix the gaming compatibility issue at last. Most of my actual computer time is on my Android phone anyway.
For the OP, I would strongly recommend trying out Linux. I think you'll find it smooth and intuitive and fully capable of replacing Win 8. You have already called out a major issue (some cutting edge hardware doesn't play nice) but for any hardware more than a year old you should be just fine. If you are willing, the best experience is usually to be had by switching entirely for at least a trial period rather than dual-booting.
- saltycaper
- Posts: 2650
- Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 8:47 pm
- Location: The Tower
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
It would be amazing if there was a simple prompt before setup asking the user if they would like to be able to access their Windows installation while running Linux, and voila!, everything was maintained in a Windows instance within VirtualBox after Linux was finished installing.smartinwate wrote:(The times I need to connect to work, I just bring up Windows XP inside a VirtualBox virtual machine under Linux. That did involve a bit of set-up, but it works pretty well.)
(Nice avatar, BTW. You must have been waiting for this question to come up.)
Quod vitae sectabor iter?
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
This usually happens when someone is running a one-off WiFi card, and the Linux driver support for it is iffy. I've used Linux on a Dell laptop for years, and never had a problem. But Dell probably uses widely-known HW.arizonaslim wrote:Slim checking in from Tucson. Am in a coworking space and right next to me is a guy who's running Linux on his laptop. Earlier today, he was having connectivity problems with the WiFi. He attributed them to Linux.
Me? I'm hardwired into the Ethernet and am on Windows. For now. When I can afford to do so, this Win7 laptop is going to be replaced by a Mac.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
For this to work the Linux distro would have to have VB preinstalled with a running VM of Windows. It would probably add some bulk to the distro file. The user would then have to enter in a license key for Windows. Again, not impossible.saltycaper wrote:It would be amazing if there was a simple prompt before setup asking the user if they would like to be able to access their Windows installation while running Linux, and voila!, everything was maintained in a Windows instance within VirtualBox after Linux was finished installing.smartinwate wrote:(The times I need to connect to work, I just bring up Windows XP inside a VirtualBox virtual machine under Linux. That did involve a bit of set-up, but it works pretty well.)
(Nice avatar, BTW. You must have been waiting for this question to come up.)
I have a lot of pre-installed applications in the Windows distro that I use for TaxAide. It simplifies deployment.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I have used Linux for eleven years and done a lot of installations. My experience is that newest hardware requires a bit of tweaking, so current Intel Broadwell and Skylake machines may need a little tweaking, but my 2014 era Haswell has pretty straightforward installations for most Linux distros.
IMO, it takes a lot of patience and a desire to learn for a switch to Linux to be worth it, but with time it is an incredibly rewarding experience. Yes, there are a lot of distros designed for users to never need to go into the terminal and to be familiar and user friendly, but the reality is, it will not take long before you will need some more advanced knowledge to fully be to manage your own computer. It seriously took me 6-8 years with Linux before I gained the confidence to match my prior Windows knowledge, such that I no longer feared software/OS breakages or upgrading or reinstalling Linux. And even after over a decade, I still rely on the wonderful open software community via forums and IRC to help me with occassional issues.
Once you learn the ins and outs as a more advanced Linux user, you will gain a lot and feel an overlwhelming amount of freedom and power. Some of the commandline tools I used to fear are now things I cannot live without. The built-in EncFS encryption is better than any encryption software I used to use on Windows. Rsync has the most reliable and flexible and fastest backup capabilities. Networking between computers is a far smoother experience than I ever achieved with Windows. The stability of my Debian and Ubuntu systems are far better than I ever achieved in Windows. I used Macbooks in the past and quite frankly, have hated Apple's direction in software and hardware for the past several years and am so glad I put in the time to learn Linux to be free of relying on Apple or Microsoft.
I would say if you enjoy learning, will not get frustrated easily, and willing to make this a long endeavor, then go for it. But I would never recommend Linux to someone who does not have the time, patience, and interest in learning a new OS.
IMO, it takes a lot of patience and a desire to learn for a switch to Linux to be worth it, but with time it is an incredibly rewarding experience. Yes, there are a lot of distros designed for users to never need to go into the terminal and to be familiar and user friendly, but the reality is, it will not take long before you will need some more advanced knowledge to fully be to manage your own computer. It seriously took me 6-8 years with Linux before I gained the confidence to match my prior Windows knowledge, such that I no longer feared software/OS breakages or upgrading or reinstalling Linux. And even after over a decade, I still rely on the wonderful open software community via forums and IRC to help me with occassional issues.
Once you learn the ins and outs as a more advanced Linux user, you will gain a lot and feel an overlwhelming amount of freedom and power. Some of the commandline tools I used to fear are now things I cannot live without. The built-in EncFS encryption is better than any encryption software I used to use on Windows. Rsync has the most reliable and flexible and fastest backup capabilities. Networking between computers is a far smoother experience than I ever achieved with Windows. The stability of my Debian and Ubuntu systems are far better than I ever achieved in Windows. I used Macbooks in the past and quite frankly, have hated Apple's direction in software and hardware for the past several years and am so glad I put in the time to learn Linux to be free of relying on Apple or Microsoft.
I would say if you enjoy learning, will not get frustrated easily, and willing to make this a long endeavor, then go for it. But I would never recommend Linux to someone who does not have the time, patience, and interest in learning a new OS.
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Also regarding Linux Mint, it is a fine newbie friendly distro. They were recently hacked such that for a day, the iso files on their site had malicious software. Although this does not affect anyone who downloaded from their site any other day, it is a great reminder that an organization like Debian has a huge team of security experts, and Linux Mint does not. And this would not be so bad if the Linux Mint team kept the same security policies as the Ubuntu distros they are based on. But instead they adopt an update process that oftentimes delays updates that may have security fixes, including kernel updates. This is a separate issue than their website hack, but given the nature of the hack, it is a reminder of the lack of security expertise in their team and coupled with their decisions to deviate from security practices of Ubuntu or Debian in the actual OS, I am inclined to recommend the latter distros, particularly Debian.
-
- Posts: 958
- Joined: Wed Mar 11, 2009 4:10 pm
- Location: Philadelphia
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Seems that this topic spurs just as much interest as it always has. On the one hand there is the view that Linux is past it heyday, but there are others who are quite happily using it and see no imminent decline. Considering all your comments, and the cost of Linux (free) I think I'll continue to put some effort into getting it working properly and booting along side Win 10. All the posts have been really interesting!
DT
DT
After one has played a vast quantity of notes and more notes, it is simplicity that emerges as the crowning reward of art. Chopin
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Over the coming decades, my prediction is that some of us will continue to depend on desktop Linux. When others say Linux never made it big or became irrelevant, we can quietly and safely ignore them while we use it daily.
-
- Posts: 6542
- Joined: Tue Jul 26, 2011 1:35 pm
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Rather than anecdotes:
A quick search reveals that other than the desktop/laptop, UNIX variants
Linux, Android ... are well ahead of all other OS's.
In the tablet market that Apple defined with the Ipad,
IoS and Android are close to each other at least in Non-US markets.
Linux is the OS on 494 of the top 500 supercomputers in the world:
http://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1
(the other 6 are Unix based.)
Android is the OS on 53% of the mobile devices sold in the US market in 2015
Gartner says in Q2 2013, Android was on 79% of total units sold worldwide
W3Cook reports 98% of public webservers run Linux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems
Google runs Linux
Amazon runs Linux, under which you can start MS virtual machines in AWS
but with a high up-charge to use a Microsoft OS.
Microsoft was embarrassed when it was reported that Hotmail ran on Linux, so
I'm sure they now run it on Windows servers.
Smart Appliances are almost all running a Linux variant (busybox)
so your wireless router and your smart TV are probably running Linux.
Linux/OS or something like it is slowly taking over the OS computing space.
A quick search reveals that other than the desktop/laptop, UNIX variants
Linux, Android ... are well ahead of all other OS's.
In the tablet market that Apple defined with the Ipad,
IoS and Android are close to each other at least in Non-US markets.
Linux is the OS on 494 of the top 500 supercomputers in the world:
http://www.top500.org/statistics/details/osfam/1
(the other 6 are Unix based.)
Android is the OS on 53% of the mobile devices sold in the US market in 2015
Gartner says in Q2 2013, Android was on 79% of total units sold worldwide
W3Cook reports 98% of public webservers run Linux
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Usage_sha ... ng_systems
Google runs Linux
Amazon runs Linux, under which you can start MS virtual machines in AWS
but with a high up-charge to use a Microsoft OS.
Microsoft was embarrassed when it was reported that Hotmail ran on Linux, so
I'm sure they now run it on Windows servers.
Smart Appliances are almost all running a Linux variant (busybox)
so your wireless router and your smart TV are probably running Linux.
Linux/OS or something like it is slowly taking over the OS computing space.
Last edited by MathWizard on Wed Mar 30, 2016 12:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- oldcomputerguy
- Moderator
- Posts: 17878
- Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 am
- Location: Tennessee
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
Thanks. Wish I could take credit for it, but it's the work of Larry Ewing, done with GNU Image Manipulation Program (GIMP).saltycaper wrote:It would be amazing if there was a simple prompt before setup asking the user if they would like to be able to access their Windows installation while running Linux, and voila!, everything was maintained in a Windows instance within VirtualBox after Linux was finished installing.smartinwate wrote:(The times I need to connect to work, I just bring up Windows XP inside a VirtualBox virtual machine under Linux. That did involve a bit of set-up, but it works pretty well.)
(Nice avatar, BTW. You must have been waiting for this question to come up.)
http://isc.tamu.edu/~lewing/linux/
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
Re: Updates on the status of Linux
I've done this dual-boot vs 'preferring Linux' at least 5 times in the past 12 years.DartThrower wrote:Thanks for all the thoughtful replies. Seems that this topic spurs just as much interest as it always has. On the one hand there is the view that Linux is past it heyday, but there are others who are quite happily using it and see no imminent decline. Considering all your comments, and the cost of Linux (free) I think I'll continue to put some effort into getting it working properly and booting along side Win 10. All the posts have been really interesting!
DT
Every time I go back to Windows, unfortunately. I'm not a computer programmer or web dev, and all that effort/research to do things in Linux, has been not that useful, honestly. Just giving you an honest warning of what'll likely happen if you're already a Windows user - you'll have fun playing with Linux, and then after a few months, you'll probably forget all about it and exclusively use windows.
Linux really excels for me when I was digging into programming and web developing/servers. It's obviously a lot more transparent as an OS than Windows, and Linux is particularly dev-friendly in that almost all the great tools are free and open source. Windows seems really boxed in, in comparison as a dev, but as a consumer, it's simply too easy to keep drinking the windows cool-aid (especially since Win10 is actually good.)