Pull-ups and Push-ups

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight »

csage wrote: I do a very similar workout - great for hotel rooms. To add more resistance on #4, try "One legged squats." Takes a bit of practice but they work well. If you don't have a pullup bar, there are also a few alternatives. I like dumbbell rows, using my luggage, or try inverted rows under a desk.
I've done "door pull-ups" in hotel rooms--put a book under the half-open bathroom door to stabilize it, and a towel over the top of the door to cushion your hands. It's actually a good workout as it challenges different muscle groups than regular pull-ups.

I've tried one-legged squats, and wow, they are a challenge. That's great you can do them! Maybe I'll try them again.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by 4stripes »

Remember, if your chest doesn't touch the bar, it doesn't count.

Also, here's a good video for how the bar should be held. Most will find they've been doing it inefficiently.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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obgraham wrote:Heavens! I thought this thread was about Lingerie!
I thought it was about diapers!
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by RyanC »

max12377 wrote: In summary I'm a total convert to bodyweight exercises. "You are your own gym" is another excellent resource on the topic.
Here's another vote for "You are your own gym"
I've been using this book and app on my Ipod for about 2 years, it's remarkable that I've been able to keep at it, normally I'm very lazy when it comes to exercising. I've worked my way up to one armed pushups with my had on the foot board of the bed. Its about mid-thigh height, someday I'll get to the floor with that exercise. I've also enjoyed working up to one-legged squats. I now have muscle definition where I didn't know they existed! Generally I spend about 30 minutes, 4-5 times per week exercising in my spare bedroom.

The app has become my favorite app, it has videos and text descriptions of each exercise from the book, and a few more, I think.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc »

-put a book under the half-open bathroom door to stabilize it, and a towel over the top of the door to cushion your hands.
Always been afraid somehow I'll rip out a hinge or something doing pull ups on a hotel door. Never thought to put a wedge under it.

:oops:
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by ryuns »

Greentree wrote:Those are all good.

If you are looking for some more variety, google "crossfit body weight workouts". The only thin to know is that the crossfit pull up is about half the effort of a regular pullup because it uses a kip. So cut those in half or so.

Jump rope, burpies, toes to bar, all good stuff.
Here's a good reference, the most updated version I could find: http://www.scribd.com/doc/167971052/Com ... t-v1-5-pdf

I'm a fan of "Murph[y]"-type workouts. Run to a nearby park, do a bunch of pull ups, push ups, and squats, then run home. Do it for time.

Another one that hasn't been mentioned, but can be learned by most fit people is the handstand push up. Looks harder than it is, if you lean against the wall and use your legs to kip until you can do them strict.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by leonard »

Bodyweight really is an arbitrary weight for push ups, pull ups, etc. etc. in some cases it is too heavy for some movements and not heavy enough for other exercises. Perhaps it's a good starting point but don't fear adding resistance by adding more weight.

BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Jazztonight »

RyanC wrote: Here's another vote for "You are your own gym"
I've been using this book and app on my Ipod for about 2 years...I've worked my way up to one armed pushups with my had on the foot board of the bed. Its about mid-thigh height, someday I'll get to the floor with that exercise. I've also enjoyed working up to one-legged squats. I now have muscle definition where I didn't know they existed! Generally I spend about 30 minutes, 4-5 times per week exercising in my spare bedroom.
The app has become my favorite app, it has videos and text descriptions of each exercise from the book, and a few more, I think.
That's really great!

I started trying one handed push-ups and pull-ups, but then decided that the stress and strain I was causing my 66 year old body just wasn't worth it, and that I am satisfied with what I can do now, which is challenge enough. Did I say "Enough"?

That said, I encourage everyone to do something, and Bodyweight exercises are always available.

I once saw a great video on YouTube where a guy goes all over town showing how there's always someplace from which to do pull-ups--trees, playground bars, construction equipment, sign post supports, overhangs, awnings, etc. I used a tree branch on the beach in Maui last year, and that started some conversations with some young surfer dudes who thought it very cool. 8-)

And here it is:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSglftsQgo ... SglftsQgoc

(Edited to add video)
Last edited by Jazztonight on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:41 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by cheapedy »

I used to fill up laundry detergent bottles with sand or rocks from the backyard. Would do various exercises with them. As I got stronger I would insert an old barbell bar between them and add more. Cheap and effective as well as disposable.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

leonard wrote:BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
Just the original version of a TRX. You can now get knockoffs, which are more versatile than the blast straps, for less than than $30.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc »

stoptothink wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
Just the original version of a TRX. You can now get knockoffs, which are more versatile than the blast straps, for less than than $30.
Do you have a recommendation or a link?

Thanks.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Deadwood »

traineeinvestor wrote:I only do weights once a week (maybe twice every now and then), but it is amazing how much you can get out of a bodyweight only routine.

Here's a book which I found helpful: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own- ... 0345528581
This is an excellent book and I highly recommend it.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

Deadwood wrote:
traineeinvestor wrote:Here's a book which I found helpful: http://www.amazon.com/You-Are-Your-Own- ... 0345528581
This is an excellent book and I highly recommend it.
Does You Are Your Own Gym require using any equipment at all? Jazztonight's comment about the bathroom door and a towel was brilliant. Does this book provide similar suggestions?

Victoria
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by watchnerd »

I find bodyweight exercises to be good for upper body, but get better results with the lower body with barbell squats and deadlifts
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Rodc wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
Just the original version of a TRX. You can now get knockoffs, which are more versatile than the blast straps, for less than than $30.
Do you have a recommendation or a link?

Thanks.
One of my roommates has these, I've used them countless times http://www.amazon.com/WOSS-Military-Sus ... on+trainer
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stemikger »

Like I said in a previous post I use the bullworker, but recently I hurt my arm and I'm not sure if it is from Isometrics. Until my arm gets better I also use something called the Bodyblade which was created by a physical therapist. It is much easier on my arm. Here it is:

http://bodyblade.com/en/

I like my bullworker better but at 49, I might have to continue with the Bodyblade for a while. Both are good alternatives for people who don't have a lot of time to exercise but still don't want to lose what they have as far as muscle tone.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by leonard »

stoptothink wrote:
Rodc wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
Just the original version of a TRX. You can now get knockoffs, which are more versatile than the blast straps, for less than than $30.
Do you have a recommendation or a link?

Thanks.
One of my roommates has these, I've used them countless times http://www.amazon.com/WOSS-Military-Sus ... on+trainer
I can't speak to the quality of TRX.

But, the Blast Straps I have had for 4 years are still solid with no visible wear on the straps. The handles have lost a bit of the chrome but still perfectly functional. Just an outstanding and versatile piece of equipment.

Blast Straps can be found here http://www.elitefts.com. Wait for them to go on sale - which they do periodically.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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VictoriaF wrote: Does You Are Your Own Gym require using any equipment at all? Jazztonight's comment about the bathroom door and a towel was brilliant. Does this book provide similar suggestions?

Victoria
Hi Victoria,

I borrowed the book from the library a year ago, and even the introduction was fascinating. He has both men and women demonstrating the moves, and I believe he now has a woman's version of the book available.

If I recall correctly, the author pretty much uses no extra weights other than some phone books. His point is that you can use variations of each exercise to increase the challenge. E.g., decline push-ups are more difficult than conventional push-ups:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPab2YC8B ... KPab2YC8BE

And for those who say that squats without dumbbells are not challenging enough (I don't disagree), the author would recommend pistol or one-leg squats:

http://www.alkavadlo.com/2010/06/14/pis ... -tutorial/

Btw, this guy, Al Kavadlo, is incredible and fun, and he demonstrates many Bodyweight exercise variations on his site.

Go for it!
Last edited by Jazztonight on Sun Nov 10, 2013 9:30 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by marco1910 »

Crossfit has a many great body workouts...a good one is called "Cindy". As many rounds as you can do in 20 minutes. Each round consists of 5 pullups, 10 pushups and 15 air squats...try it..you will like it...Mark
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Redstorm »

marco1910 wrote:Crossfit has a many great body workouts...a good one is called "Cindy". As many rounds as you can do in 20 minutes. Each round consists of 5 pullups, 10 pushups and 15 air squats...try it..you will like it...Mark
Try that with a minute as your marker

5 pullups, 10 pushups and 15 air squats in a minute, the seconds left over up until the minute are your rest period.

At the top of the minute start again

Did these the other day and only made it to 10 minutes, I believe the goal is 30.

You can also scale to your level i.e. you may start off with

5 Jumping Pull ups
5 Pushups
5 air squats
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

Jazztonight wrote:
VictoriaF wrote: Does You Are Your Own Gym require using any equipment at all? Jazztonight's comment about the bathroom door and a towel was brilliant. Does this book provide similar suggestions?

Victoria
Hi Victoria,

I borrowed the book from the library a year ago, and even the introduction was fascinating. He has both men and women demonstrating the moves, and I believe he now has a woman's version of the book available.

If I recall correctly, the author pretty much uses no extra weights other than some phone books. His point is that you can use variations of each exercise to increase the challenge. E.g., decline push-ups are more difficult than conventional push-ups:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPab2YC8B ... KPab2YC8BE

And for those who say that squats without dumbbells are not challenging enough (I don't disagree), the author would recommend pistol or one-leg squats:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPab2YC8B ... KPab2YC8BE

Btw, this guy, Al Kavadlo, is incredible and fun, and he demonstrates many Bodyweight exercise variations on his site.

Go for it!
Hi Jazztonight,

Thank you for fantastic recommendations. I've ordered the book (the women's version) and will put it in use shortly. The video, however, is intimidating. I'd like to be able to do what the guy does without developing his bulging muscles.

Victoria
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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VictoriaF wrote:
Hi Jazztonight,

Thank you for fantastic recommendations. I've ordered the book (the women's version) and will put it in use shortly. The video, however, is intimidating. I'd like to be able to do what the guy does without developing his bulging muscles.

Victoria
It doesn't really work that way unless you're taking steroids. The most important thing is to take it slow and don't injure yourself.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

VictoriaF - I concur with Jazztonight. Hormone levels present in females limit muscle development. The female "pro" body builders get bulk by going to extraordinary methods. At this level (even when I was working out on my Nautilus machine), the changes in the muscle's physical appearance are not very apparent.
Jazztonight wrote:And for those who say that squats without dumbbells are not challenging enough (I don't disagree), the author would recommend pistol or one-leg squats:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPab2YC8B ... KPab2YC8BE
That's the decline push-up video. Can you please fix the link?
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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marco1910 wrote:Crossfit has a many great body workouts...a good one is called "Cindy". As many rounds as you can do in 20 minutes. Each round consists of 5 pullups, 10 pushups and 15 air squats...try it..you will like it...Mark
As you've probably heard, there is controversy surrounding Crossfit:

http://abcnews.go.com/health/t/blogEntr ... gle.com%2F

Then again, anything taken to an extreme can be dangerous. My own PT told me he's constantly dealing with young men injured as a result of Crossfit.

I personally don't push myself that hard; just hard enough. What am I trying to prove, and to whom?

One mishap can sideline you for months, and of course there's always the dreaded Rotator Cuff injury that so many have to deal with. Slow and steady wins the race.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

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LadyGeek wrote:VictoriaF - I concur with Jazztonight. Hormone levels present in females limit muscle development. The female "pro" body builders get bulk by going to extraordinary methods. At this level (even when I was working out on my Nautilus machine), the changes in the muscle's physical appearance are not very apparent.
Jazztonight wrote:And for those who say that squats without dumbbells are not challenging enough (I don't disagree), the author would recommend pistol or one-leg squats:

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=SKPab2YC8B ... KPab2YC8BE
That's the decline push-up video. Can you please fix the link?
Done:

http://www.alkavadlo.com/2010/06/14/pis ... -tutorial/

Thank you.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by protagonist »

This about isometrics vs. dynamic exercise from Wikipedia:

Comparison with dynamic exercises[edit]

While isometric training increases strength at the specific joint angles of the exercises performed and additional joint angles to a lesser extent, dynamic exercises increase strength throughout the full range of motion.[5] More recent research has confirmed the finding that every skill has a specific strength component that must be practiced with the skill itself.[citation needed] When a subject performs any sort of dynamic resistance training,many other muscle groups work Isometrically,for example the muscles of the core in a Squat,the Hamstrings in a Stiff Leg Deadlift,the Lats or upper back in a wide grip chin up,and the muscles of the forearms in a dumbbell or barbell bicep curl to name a few.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isometric ... _exercises
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by bertie wooster »

Great thread! I love bodyweight excercises - pull ups/push ups/lunges/squats and planks are all you need. Mix that with running and swimming and you can be very fit.

I do love lifting weights though. While the bodyweight stuff keeps you fit, there's nothing quite like the physique that free weights give you (what can I say, I've got some vanity). Unfortunately I haven't been in the weight room since 2 days before my son was born (16 months ago) and we have another on the way, so I'll be taking a temporary hiatus from the gym.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by tetractys »

Don't forget the upside down pull-ups, roughly the opposite of push-ups.

One of the nice things about using one's own body is the avoidance of nerve damage the heavy builders get, which shows up in old age. I've never seen any studies that point to it, only ancient Chinese observations done over many generations. But I'm pretty sure the modern community will get the message after the present group/wave ages--in agony. -- Tet
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

Progress report-

My upper body strength is improving. Although I've got a ways to go, I can now do a few chin / pull ups without cheating. My goal is 10. Push ups are getting easier; I can do 12+.

I've included squats as part of my routine. I didn't realize that this exercise can help strengthen your knees, which I think I was missing. This also gave me an unexpected benefit - the increased leg strength is helping my running. With the improved muscle toning, these changes made me realize how important this exercise is.

Now, I'm trying to optimize the "efficient frontier" which is the ever elusive balance between strength, mobility, and cardio.
Jazztonight wrote:And for those who say that squats without dumbbells are not challenging enough (I don't disagree), the author would recommend pistol or one-leg squats:
LadyGeek wrote:That's the decline push-up video. Can you please fix the link?
Done: http://www.alkavadlo.com/2010/06/14/pis ... -tutorial/ ...
I'm also trying the pistol squat. BTW, this exercise can be done in an office cube, just lean on a desk for support. That video is wicked insane, especially when he jumps on the bench from a squat. I'll see how long it takes for me to get close. :)

This is more my speed: Video: Squat exercise
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

LadyGeek wrote:Progress report-

My upper body strength is improving. Although I've got a ways to go, I can now do a few chin / pull ups without cheating. My goal is 10. Push ups are getting easier; I can do
Sounds like you have a pretty serious push/pull muscular imbalance, odd because most compensate in the other direction. With a standard pushup you are only pushing 40-65% of your bodyweight, with a pullup you are pulling 100% of your bodyweight and putting exponentially more stress on your shoulder stabilizers. The overwhelming majority of females can not do a single pullup. My fiancee (a pretty serious competitive runner who I am just getting into some basic strength training) can easily pump out sets of 40+ military standard pushups and struggles mightily with 2 pullups.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Kulak »

I'm going to be a dissenter here and say that BW exercise generally sucks. For a man, the only one challenging enough is pull-ups, and pull-ups are too hard for 99% of women. Bodyweight squats and lunges are too easy unless you're ridiculously out of shape, and pistol squats are too tricky/goofy to let the trainee dial in the form and then build strength progressively. (I can BB squat almost 2xBW but can't do a single strict pistol squat.) Push-ups might be challenging for a rank beginner but the gains will be exhausted within a few weeks for both men and women. Again, the only way to make them more challenging is to make them goofy and unstable. There's no overhead pressing movement possible at all (unless you can do handstand push-ups!), nor anything like a deadlift.

There's just no substitute for an Olympic barbell and rack.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Kulak wrote:I'm going to be a dissenter here and say that BW exercise generally sucks. For a man, the only one challenging enough is pull-ups, and pull-ups are too hard for 99% of women. Bodyweight squats and lunges are too easy unless you're ridiculously out of shape, and pistol squats are too tricky/goofy to let the trainee dial in the form and then build strength progressively. (I can BB squat almost 2xBW but can't do a single strict pistol squat.) Push-ups might be challenging for a rank beginner but the gains will be exhausted within a few weeks for both men and women. Again, the only way to make them more challenging is to make them goofy and unstable. There's no overhead pressing movement possible at all (unless you can do handstand push-ups!), nor anything like a deadlift.

There's just no substitute for an Olympic barbell and rack.
Once you can do ~12 repetitions of a specific movement, if you want to get stronger you have to increase the resistance somehow; it's the first principal of strength progression. But everyone is at varying degrees of conditioning and you have to start somewhere, and some people actually do not necessarily want to get stronger.

I like my muscle-ups, handstand pushups, pistol squats, and occasionally do plyometric versions of standard bodyweight movements, but 95% of my own training is done with added resistance in some form because I like to progress. All depends on your goals.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

stoptothink wrote:I like my muscle-ups, handstand pushups...
Are you standing on your hands and doing pushups upside down? Wow!

Victoria
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

VictoriaF wrote:
stoptothink wrote:I like my muscle-ups, handstand pushups...
Are you standing on your hands and doing pushups upside down? Wow!

Victoria
It's not nearly as difficult as you think and no, I can not do it without leaning against a wall. A muscle-up is much more difficult (without a big kipp).
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

stoptothink wrote:
LadyGeek wrote:...My upper body strength is improving. Although I've got a ways to go, I can now do a few chin / pull ups without cheating. My goal is 10. Push ups are getting easier; I can do
Sounds like you have a pretty serious push/pull muscular imbalance, odd because most compensate in the other direction. With a standard pushup you are only pushing 40-65% of your bodyweight, with a pullup you are pulling 100% of your bodyweight and putting exponentially more stress on your shoulder stabilizers. The overwhelming majority of females can not do a single pullup. My fiancee (a pretty serious competitive runner who I am just getting into some basic strength training) can easily pump out sets of 40+ military standard pushups and struggles mightily with 2 pullups.
This is good info, thanks. I'm wondering if it was the way I was brought up - carrying heavy boxes in a grocery store.

40+ pushups? :shock: I've never gotten more than 20 when I was in really good shape.If she can do 40+, then I haven't reached my limit - something to work on.

I'm currently in the 3 to 4 unassisted pullup range, so I think we're about par for that.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by TSR »

Kulak wrote:I'm going to be a dissenter here and say that BW exercise generally sucks. For a man, the only one challenging enough is pull-ups, and pull-ups are too hard for 99% of women. Bodyweight squats and lunges are too easy unless you're ridiculously out of shape, and pistol squats are too tricky/goofy to let the trainee dial in the form and then build strength progressively. (I can BB squat almost 2xBW but can't do a single strict pistol squat.) Push-ups might be challenging for a rank beginner but the gains will be exhausted within a few weeks for both men and women. Again, the only way to make them more challenging is to make them goofy and unstable. There's no overhead pressing movement possible at all (unless you can do handstand push-ups!), nor anything like a deadlift.

There's just no substitute for an Olympic barbell and rack.
I'll dissent from your dissent (concur with the plurality?). I'm relatively young -- mid 30s -- but tall and skinny. At 6'3", 175 lbs, it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle. I can only dream of getting to the point where push-ups lose their effect "within a few weeks." I'm just built skinny, and muscle doesn't really like to wrap around my long bones. I suspect that there are many others like me out there who, for different reasons, aren't going to be among those who can bulk up. My physique and metabolism are great in many health respects (the obvious ones), but not so great for things like joint strength. Exercise like body-weight exercises and isometric exercises really fill a void for me -- a lot of resistence, not too much muscle strain, and a little bit of muscle growth. Additionally (or, perhaps, by extension), I don't actually want to become larger, and these are good "maintenance"-level exercises for me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

TSR wrote:
Kulak wrote:I'm going to be a dissenter here and say that BW exercise generally sucks. For a man, the only one challenging enough is pull-ups, and pull-ups are too hard for 99% of women. Bodyweight squats and lunges are too easy unless you're ridiculously out of shape, and pistol squats are too tricky/goofy to let the trainee dial in the form and then build strength progressively. (I can BB squat almost 2xBW but can't do a single strict pistol squat.) Push-ups might be challenging for a rank beginner but the gains will be exhausted within a few weeks for both men and women. Again, the only way to make them more challenging is to make them goofy and unstable. There's no overhead pressing movement possible at all (unless you can do handstand push-ups!), nor anything like a deadlift.

There's just no substitute for an Olympic barbell and rack.
I'll dissent from your dissent (concur with the plurality?). I'm relatively young -- mid 30s -- but tall and skinny. At 6'3", 175 lbs, it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle. I can only dream of getting to the point where push-ups lose their effect "within a few weeks." I'm just built skinny, and muscle doesn't really like to wrap around my long bones. I suspect that there are many others like me out there who, for different reasons, aren't going to be among those who can bulk up. My physique and metabolism are great in many health respects (the obvious ones), but not so great for things like joint strength. Exercise like body-weight exercises and isometric exercises really fill a void for me -- a lot of resistence, not too much muscle strain, and a little bit of muscle growth. Additionally (or, perhaps, by extension), I don't actually want to become larger, and these are good "maintenance"-level exercises for me. Your mileage may vary, of course.
In your case bodyweight movements fit the bill. It's all about goals. As you stated, your goal is maintenance; if you intended to increase your strength, you would quite quickly reach your threshold with only body weight exercises. It's a fact. And yes, you absolutely could bulk up (not as quickly as a mesomorph obviously), but it certainly isn't happening with bodyweight exercises.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Riprap »

TSR wrote:I'll dissent from your dissent (concur with the plurality?). I'm relatively young -- mid 30s -- but tall and skinny. At 6'3", 175 lbs, it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle. I can only dream of getting to the point where push-ups lose their effect "within a few weeks." I'm just built skinny, and muscle doesn't really like to wrap around my long bones. I suspect that there are many others like me out there who, for different reasons, aren't going to be among those who can bulk up. My physique and metabolism are great in many health respects (the obvious ones), but not so great for things like joint strength.
I concur with your dissent of the dissent. Like you, I'm tall, skinny, and cannot build muscle. My BMI is around 22, but people think I look too skinny even though my physical fitness level is outstanding as measured by the U.S. Navy physical readiness standards.

Turns out I'm an ectomorph. There's really not much I can do about it. :mrgreen:

http://www.muscleandstrength.com/articl ... morph.html
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

stoptothink wrote:All depends on your goals.
In your opinion, what's the best way to get started? Body weight? Isometrics? Yoga? I am changing my mind every time I read this thread.

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Kulak »

TSR wrote:but not so great for things like joint strength
You might be surprised how that joint strength would improve with an intelligent barbell program. I used to have frequent knee pain from just squatting down or stepping up onto a 2-foot ledge; today I do 300lb barbell back squats without pain.

I'm only criticizing the sentiment that says, "You don't need those scary freeweights to get strong, all you need is your body." You can tell yourself that until you go to lift a piece of furniture or put a heavy box up on the top shelf.
it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle
Hypertrophy is a tangent, but: You've never done it right. Even stoptothink will back me on this. I myself was at BMI 21 at one point, looked emaciated and couldn't bench press or squat my own body weight. I got from there to BMI 24.5 at 8% fat in ~1.5 years of semi-serious effort. The training has to be progressive and you have to eat way more than you'd think -- I'd add 300-400g carb to my diet on workout days. (E.g. a half-dozen bagels or entire box of cold cereal.) And you have to do that consistently for MANY months at least. I believe I could've gained faster if I'd trained more frequently and eaten even more, and that I would have gained even more if I'd kept going and gotten really strong.

The real point is how difficult it becomes to hang onto basic strength and mobility, insulin sensitivity, bone density, posture, etc. as you age, and how barbell training is a magic bullet for all that stuff, simple to coach, very safe (far less injurious than, say, jogging), infinitely scalable with clear progression, so that both an 80yo great-grandma and a competitive powerlifter can benefit from it.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc »

stoptothink wrote:
Rodc wrote:
stoptothink wrote:
leonard wrote:BTW - by far the best "bodyweight" exercise tool I have seen are Blast Straps - primarily because you can increase resistance as needed.
Just the original version of a TRX. You can now get knockoffs, which are more versatile than the blast straps, for less than than $30.
Do you have a recommendation or a link?

Thanks.
One of my roommates has these, I've used them countless times http://www.amazon.com/WOSS-Military-Sus ... on+trainer
Thanks
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by Rodc »

Kulak wrote:
TSR wrote:but not so great for things like joint strength
You might be surprised how that joint strength would improve with an intelligent barbell program. I used to have frequent knee pain from just squatting down or stepping up onto a 2-foot ledge; today I do 300lb barbell back squats without pain.

I'm only criticizing the sentiment that says, "You don't need those scary freeweights to get strong, all you need is your body." You can tell yourself that until you go to lift a piece of furniture or put a heavy box up on the top shelf.
it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle
Hypertrophy is a tangent, but: You've never done it right. Even stoptothink will back me on this. I myself was at BMI 21 at one point, looked emaciated and couldn't bench press or squat my own body weight. I got from there to BMI 24.5 at 8% fat in ~1.5 years of semi-serious effort. The training has to be progressive and you have to eat way more than you'd think -- I'd add 300-400g carb to my diet on workout days. (E.g. a half-dozen bagels or entire box of cold cereal.) And you have to do that consistently for MANY months at least. I believe I could've gained faster if I'd trained more frequently and eaten even more, and that I would have gained even more if I'd kept going and gotten really strong.

The real point is how difficult it becomes to hang onto basic strength and mobility, insulin sensitivity, bone density, posture, etc. as you age, and how barbell training is a magic bullet for all that stuff, simple to coach, very safe (far less injurious than, say, jogging), infinitely scalable with clear progression, so that both an 80yo great-grandma and a competitive powerlifter can benefit from it.
I guess the Body by Science guys are all wrong too as they caution that while we can all lift and gain strength the reality is most people are not going to get super strong and beefy due to simple genetics. Some people are wired to be able to build muscle mass and others are not and some are in between.
We live a world with knowledge of the future markets has less than one significant figure. And people will still and always demand answers to three significant digits.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

VictoriaF wrote:
stoptothink wrote:All depends on your goals.
In your opinion, what's the best way to get started? Body weight? Isometrics? Yoga? I am changing my mind every time I read this thread.

Victoria
Started with what? Physiological progression is all about specificity. For the poster who stated he was trying to maintain a basal level of conditioning, bodyweight movements are totally sufficient. My experience is also as a pretty high level athlete, and then training collegiate and professional athletes; my "normal" and thresholds are probably totally different than yours.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by stoptothink »

Rodc wrote:
Kulak wrote:
TSR wrote:but not so great for things like joint strength
You might be surprised how that joint strength would improve with an intelligent barbell program. I used to have frequent knee pain from just squatting down or stepping up onto a 2-foot ledge; today I do 300lb barbell back squats without pain.

I'm only criticizing the sentiment that says, "You don't need those scary freeweights to get strong, all you need is your body." You can tell yourself that until you go to lift a piece of furniture or put a heavy box up on the top shelf.
it is almost impossible for me to gain muscle
Hypertrophy is a tangent, but: You've never done it right. Even stoptothink will back me on this. I myself was at BMI 21 at one point, looked emaciated and couldn't bench press or squat my own body weight. I got from there to BMI 24.5 at 8% fat in ~1.5 years of semi-serious effort. The training has to be progressive and you have to eat way more than you'd think -- I'd add 300-400g carb to my diet on workout days. (E.g. a half-dozen bagels or entire box of cold cereal.) And you have to do that consistently for MANY months at least. I believe I could've gained faster if I'd trained more frequently and eaten even more, and that I would have gained even more if I'd kept going and gotten really strong.

The real point is how difficult it becomes to hang onto basic strength and mobility, insulin sensitivity, bone density, posture, etc. as you age, and how barbell training is a magic bullet for all that stuff, simple to coach, very safe (far less injurious than, say, jogging), infinitely scalable with clear progression, so that both an 80yo great-grandma and a competitive powerlifter can benefit from it.
I guess the Body by Science guys are all wrong too as they caution that while we can all lift and gain strength the reality is most people are not going to get super strong and beefy due to simple genetics. Some people are wired to be able to build muscle mass and others are not and some are in between.
Yes, there are varying degrees of genetic potential, but we all have the potential to get much stronger and carry much more muscle mass then we do. You may not have the potential to deadlift 1000lbs like Andy Bolton, but given a few years of consistent training I guarantee that you could at absolute minimum double your current maximal effort. How do you say "I do not have the potential to put on lean mass" when you never have correctly tried? You are totally taking both the statements of the author of Body by Science and of Kulak and I totally out of context.

My fiance is a 5'8" 115lbs. competitive long-distance runner, I can nearly wrap my hand around her entire thigh. Up until we met she had never done any resistance training of any kind, just 3 days a week of very basic strength training over about the past 9 months and she can now easily do sets of 40 pushups and has gone from struggling to deadlift 95lbs. to fairly easily pulling 155 for a triple. She does not have the genetic potential (without androgenic assistance) to get extremely muscular, but she has effectively doubled her strength in compound movements in a very short period of time just through consistent and goal-oriented training.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

VictoriaF wrote:
stoptothink wrote:All depends on your goals.
In your opinion, what's the best way to get started? Body weight? Isometrics? Yoga? I am changing my mind every time I read this thread.

Victoria
Your body's design is optimized for physical movement. For example, running uses every muscle in your body - it's very good at that. The design is also optimized to perform tasks over a range of motion within a certain load range.

You are in analysis-paralysis. Start with the classical approach, which is calisthenics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squat thrusts). It's the "three-fund portfolio" of exercise - a time-proven method that works.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

LadyGeek wrote:
VictoriaF wrote:
stoptothink wrote:All depends on your goals.
In your opinion, what's the best way to get started? Body weight? Isometrics? Yoga? I am changing my mind every time I read this thread.

Victoria
Your body's design is optimized for physical movement. For example, running uses every muscle in your body - it's very good at that. The design is also optimized to perform tasks over a range of motion within a certain load range.

You are in analysis-paralysis. Start with the classical approach, which is calisthetics (push ups, pull ups, sit ups, squat thrusts). It's the "three-fund portfolio" of exercise - a time-proven method that works.
Thank you, LadyGeek. Analysis paralysis is the story of my life. The calisthenics you listed are a four-fund portfolio {smile},

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

The 3 funds are running, strength, and flexibility. Exercises are the "stock" components.

When you have achieved your initial goals, then decide if you want to tilt your portfolio. IOW, optimize your training for (pick one) running, strength, or flexibility. This is the classical problem and why cross-training is so difficult - you can only optimize for one, maybe two aspects.

The analogy is speed, complexity, cost. Pick any two.

Update: Fixed terminology.
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

LadyGeek wrote:The 3 funds are running, strength, and mobility.
How is mobility different from running?

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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by LadyGeek »

I just fixed my post. I meant flexibility. :oops:

The nice thing about this type of exercise is that you can don't need any special equipment or location (you don't need to go to a gym).
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Re: Pull-ups and Push-ups

Post by VictoriaF »

LadyGeek wrote:I just fixed my post. I meant flexibility. :oops:

The nice thing about this type of exercise is that you can don't need any special equipment or location (you don't need to go to a gym).
Thanks! It makes sense now,

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