How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
OP, if you're trying to avoid lifestyle creep, my 1st recommendation is to be honest to recognize "lifestyle creep."
So far, there has been a number of posts that seem to equate lifestyle creep with buying/owning material things. Material things are obviously fair game to consider when it comes to lifestyle creep. It's the easy scapegoat, for example, spending $6K of "stuff" that fills one's garage will always be the ongoing reminder that one has spend the money. Just walk into your garage everyday and you can ask, why/when did I end up with all these bikes, golf clubs, and even the expensive car(s).
What hasn't been mentioned is the concept of lifestyle creep when it comes to the pure "experiences" one purchases in life. These things are the travel, the airline flights (be it economy/business/1st class), the rental cars, the hotels (be it budget or high end), the restaurants, the excursions/activities, etc. These things are a very significant aspect to lifestyle creep, but unlike buying $6K worth of stuff, the trip spent $6K on experiences. The big difference is one isn't reminded daily of the experiential spending because there is no material thing left over to clutter up the garage.
I personally hate the "experience" vs. "materialism" argument anyway because that material thing (for example a mountain bike) buys one lots of experiences.
There are many other ways lifestyle creep comes into our lives. Be it having to own that nicer home, justifying buying that higher model car for "safety"are obvious examples where we justify (rightly or wrongly) that it is imperative that the family live in this/that neighborhood or this/that car has the safety/features that one justifies they must have. We justify where we have to buy our groceries/staples, where we eat out, we justify where we must send our kids to school/college, what activities they partake, and we justify why we need to have yard service, maid service, hello fresh, uber eats, dog doo pick up services, etc.
So to answer your question how to avoid lifestyle creep, 1st recognize it. One then just needs to decide what lifestyle creep you are okay with in your personal life (and one's family).
Overall, I don't see lifestyle creep as inherently bad at all. People strive to enjoy things in life, and that entails rising standards of lifestyles. What's important is to recognize what's important for yourself and financially what's that means in your particular financial situation. What's important to me is probably not the same to you, and what something means financially to me is probably not the same to you.
So far, there has been a number of posts that seem to equate lifestyle creep with buying/owning material things. Material things are obviously fair game to consider when it comes to lifestyle creep. It's the easy scapegoat, for example, spending $6K of "stuff" that fills one's garage will always be the ongoing reminder that one has spend the money. Just walk into your garage everyday and you can ask, why/when did I end up with all these bikes, golf clubs, and even the expensive car(s).
What hasn't been mentioned is the concept of lifestyle creep when it comes to the pure "experiences" one purchases in life. These things are the travel, the airline flights (be it economy/business/1st class), the rental cars, the hotels (be it budget or high end), the restaurants, the excursions/activities, etc. These things are a very significant aspect to lifestyle creep, but unlike buying $6K worth of stuff, the trip spent $6K on experiences. The big difference is one isn't reminded daily of the experiential spending because there is no material thing left over to clutter up the garage.
I personally hate the "experience" vs. "materialism" argument anyway because that material thing (for example a mountain bike) buys one lots of experiences.
There are many other ways lifestyle creep comes into our lives. Be it having to own that nicer home, justifying buying that higher model car for "safety"are obvious examples where we justify (rightly or wrongly) that it is imperative that the family live in this/that neighborhood or this/that car has the safety/features that one justifies they must have. We justify where we have to buy our groceries/staples, where we eat out, we justify where we must send our kids to school/college, what activities they partake, and we justify why we need to have yard service, maid service, hello fresh, uber eats, dog doo pick up services, etc.
So to answer your question how to avoid lifestyle creep, 1st recognize it. One then just needs to decide what lifestyle creep you are okay with in your personal life (and one's family).
Overall, I don't see lifestyle creep as inherently bad at all. People strive to enjoy things in life, and that entails rising standards of lifestyles. What's important is to recognize what's important for yourself and financially what's that means in your particular financial situation. What's important to me is probably not the same to you, and what something means financially to me is probably not the same to you.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?
We both park in front of our garage. I do because we have a large garage gym and we store my other neighbors's Porsche (for a fee). He had the electronics in his trunk for work. I actually did the same thing about 15yrs ago and someone busted my window and stole my work bag that I had hidden behind the seat of my truck. Learned my lesson.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Yeah, it’s one thing to keep stuff in your car if you park in your garage. It’s another to keep in an outside car, even in the trunk.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:10 amdelamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?We both park in front of our garage. I do because we have a large garage gym and we store my other neighbors's Porsche (for a fee). He had the electronics in his trunk for work. I actually did the same thing about 15yrs ago and someone busted my window and stole my work bag that I had hidden behind the seat of my truck. Learned my lesson.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?
Although it sounds like your neighbor was out-of-luck either way.
How did the thieves get into the garages?
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I have the opposite problem. I am naturally cheap. So I set higher and higher spending goals each month and try to meet these goals by doing more things I enjoy. I am currently spending $12,000 a month (was around 9,000 just a few months ago).RobLyons wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm Without diving into a too much detail, I've reached a point where I'm starting to notice we are spending a lot more on things like eating out, gadgets, a fun 3rd car, social gatherings, a gaming setup for one of our kids... While I don't have any regrets I fear this may continue to spiral (shopping for the newest iPhone on my new MacBook Air). We still maintain a 6 month EF, max retirement accounts, have a pension, and I have no desire to retire earlier than 60 or 65.
So my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
How much lifestyle creep is acceptable?
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Well, the garage door openers were in both cars so we assume that is how they got in. Incredible that it didn't wake up either one of us. Interestingly enough, it doesn't appear that they even attempted to get into my neighbor's Porsche (that was in my garage), but they moved around everything else, looking for anything worth something. Also, this neighbor travels a lot for business so many people in the neighborhood know their wife but have never met them. Another neighbor just got home from their night shift job and said hello to one of the (the two) gentlemen who were about to break into his car and garage, assuming it was him.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:25 amYeah, it’s one thing to keep stuff in your car if you park in your garage. It’s another to keep in an outside car, even in the trunk.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:10 amdelamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?We both park in front of our garage. I do because we have a large garage gym and we store my other neighbors's Porsche (for a fee). He had the electronics in his trunk for work. I actually did the same thing about 15yrs ago and someone busted my window and stole my work bag that I had hidden behind the seat of my truck. Learned my lesson.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?
Although it sounds like your neighbor was out-of-luck either way.
How did the thieves get into the garages?
My wife grew up in two different small towns where everybody left their doors unlocked. She's never had anything stolen. We've had about 100 conversations about leaving her purse or work bag in the car (sometimes on the driver's seat) overnight, with the windows often down. I think this was a big learning lesson and we didn't even have to lose anything.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
That’s really weird about your neighbor on the night shift!stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:38 pmWell, the garage door openers were in both cars so we assume that is how they got in. Incredible that it didn't wake up either one of us. Interestingly enough, it doesn't appear that they even attempted to get into my neighbor's Porsche (that was in my garage), but they moved around everything else, looking for anything worth something. Also, this neighbor travels a lot for business so many people in the neighborhood know their wife but have never met them. Another neighbor just got home from their night shift job and said hello to one of the (the two) gentlemen who were about to break into his car and garage, assuming it was him.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:25 amYeah, it’s one thing to keep stuff in your car if you park in your garage. It’s another to keep in an outside car, even in the trunk.stoptothink wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:10 amWe both park in front of our garage. I do because we have a large garage gym and we store my other neighbors's Porsche (for a fee). He had the electronics in his trunk for work. I actually did the same thing about 15yrs ago and someone busted my window and stole my work bag that I had hidden behind the seat of my truck. Learned my lesson.delamer wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:13 amSorry for your bad experience.stoptothink wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:55 pm My car and garage were broken into last night, as was my neighbors'. The only thing in the car was my kids' gym bag, with their sweaty gloves and shinguards. They took the bag and all the random paperwork in the glovebox (registration, insurance card, owner's manual, etc.), but it was tossed around the corner and a neighbor found it. In the garage, apparently they didn't want to deal with carrying away any part of my extensive garage gym because they took nothing. My neighbor had his macbook pro and an Ipad taken from his car and ~$25k worth of "stuff" (segways, DJ and home audio equipment, mountain bikes, snowboards, several drones) from his garage. Yes, insurance will cover everything (after deductible), but it's a huge hassle. Neighbor has pretty good pictures from his garage camera, but doubt anything is done.
We live in literally one of the 10 safest cities in the entire country and there is theft of packages off doorsteps pretty much every day in our neighborhood. A good reminder that "stuff" often isn't worth it and I'm glad we have little in our home that anybody would want to take and that packages delivered to our porch are rare.
Just curious, was your neighbor’s car in the garage? And why did he have a laptop and an iPad in the car — for work?
Although it sounds like your neighbor was out-of-luck either way.
How did the thieves get into the garages?
My wife grew up in two different small towns where everybody left their doors unlocked. She's never had anything stolen. We've had about 100 conversations about leaving her purse or work bag in the car (sometimes on the driver's seat) overnight, with the windows often down. I think this was a big learning lesson and we didn't even have to lose anything.
It always surprises me that people leave doors (car or house) unlocked or that they keep a garage door opener in a non-garaged car. I grew up in a very low crime area, but we kept stuff locked. Why tempt fate?
Anyway, glad you didn’t lose anything.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
reln wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 11:25 amI have the opposite problem. I am naturally cheap. So I set higher and higher spending goals each month and try to meet these goals by doing more things I enjoy. I am currently spending $12,000 a month (was around 9,000 just a few months ago).RobLyons wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm Without diving into a too much detail, I've reached a point where I'm starting to notice we are spending a lot more on things like eating out, gadgets, a fun 3rd car, social gatherings, a gaming setup for one of our kids... While I don't have any regrets I fear this may continue to spiral (shopping for the newest iPhone on my new MacBook Air). We still maintain a 6 month EF, max retirement accounts, have a pension, and I have no desire to retire earlier than 60 or 65.
So my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
How much lifestyle creep is acceptable?
I'd gladly help you spend some money if you're struggling!
Light weight baby!
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Hello OP, I regularly re-read my favorite articles on consumption:
1. Guide to Curing Affluenza: http://newworldeconomics.com/the-new-wo ... affluenza/
2. How to Have Fun: http://newworldeconomics.com/summer-sla ... -have-fun/
3. Is it Convenient? Would I enjoy it? Wrong Question: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09 ... -question/
4. Luxury is Just Another Weakness: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08 ... -weakness/
And the bible. "One's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions"
Peer group is very important, too. It's very hard to act differently than the 5 persons closest to you. Best wishes.
1. Guide to Curing Affluenza: http://newworldeconomics.com/the-new-wo ... affluenza/
2. How to Have Fun: http://newworldeconomics.com/summer-sla ... -have-fun/
3. Is it Convenient? Would I enjoy it? Wrong Question: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2012/09 ... -question/
4. Luxury is Just Another Weakness: https://www.mrmoneymustache.com/2013/08 ... -weakness/
And the bible. "One's life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions"
Peer group is very important, too. It's very hard to act differently than the 5 persons closest to you. Best wishes.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
You eventually do an internal cost/benefit analysis of how much your creeping lifestyle really makes you happy.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Careful. It may not be up to you.
Plenty of people planned to work until 65, and ended up "retired" at 58 instead. Due to health reasons, or just unable to continue the same career.
Save half your raises.my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
If you get a raise/promotion of $10,000 a year, save an extra $5000 a year, and feel free to spend the other $5000.
You can safely increase your lifestyle if you also increase your savings at the same time.
Mentally and emotionally, if you're lucky, you may find yourself at a happy point where you realize you have "enough", and you won't need to increase your lifestyle anymore. I don't know how to tell you to do that.
Thinking about "diminishing returns" I guess might help.
As you spend more and more, you usually get less and less. Try to find that happy medium.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
HomerJ wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 3:11 pmCareful. It may not be up to you.
Plenty of people planned to work until 65, and ended up "retired" at 58 instead. Due to health reasons, or just unable to continue the same career.
Save half your raises.my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
If you get a raise/promotion of $10,000 a year, save an extra $5000 a year, and feel free to spend the other $5000.
You can safely increase your lifestyle if you also increase your savings at the same time.
Mentally and emotionally, if you're lucky, you may find yourself at a happy point where you realize you have "enough", and you won't need to increase your lifestyle anymore. I don't know how to tell you to do that.
Thinking about "diminishing returns" I guess might help.
As you spend more and more, you usually get less and less. Try to find that happy medium.
Thanks
Great avi pic of homer
Light weight baby!
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I agree and would take it as a given, maybe some people don't, that consumption spending is consumption spending. Some people feel 'studies' justify lecturing other people to emphasize paying $ for 'experiences' over 'things'. Their opinion is fine for them though I enjoy what I enjoy, thanks, and don't necessarily see a bright line between those two categories anyway*. But everyone reasonable has to acknowledge a $ is a $ in terms of whether you can afford to spend it or not. And another perhaps obvious (but again perhaps not) point is that to me 'lifestyle creep' as a problem means eventually spending, without it being your explicit plan, more $ than you can really afford to reach your explicit financial independence, retirement or bequest goals. If people think spending fewer $'s is a virtue in itself, aside from what you can afford, I think they should be clearer about that. I get the sense that idea is often included in posts here, whether even the post writers are fully aware of it themselves. I think those people should more carefully consider if that's what they are actually saying, and spell it out if so.IMO wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 am OP, if you're trying to avoid lifestyle creep, my 1st recommendation is to be honest to recognize "lifestyle creep."
So far, there has been a number of posts that seem to equate lifestyle creep with buying/owning material things. Material things are obviously fair game to consider when it comes to lifestyle creep. It's the easy scapegoat, for example, spending $6K of "stuff" that fills one's garage will always be the ongoing reminder that one has spend the money. Just walk into your garage everyday and you can ask, why/when did I end up with all these bikes, golf clubs, and even the expensive car(s).
What hasn't been mentioned is the concept of lifestyle creep when it comes to the pure "experiences" one purchases in life. These things are the travel, the airline flights (be it economy/business/1st class), the rental cars, the hotels (be it budget or high end), the restaurants, the excursions/activities, etc. These things are a very significant aspect to lifestyle creep, but unlike buying $6K worth of stuff, the trip spent $6K on experiences. The big difference is one isn't reminded daily of the experiential spending because there is no material thing left over to clutter up the garage.
*our nicer car is chosen for the main purpose of long road trips, it's integral to our enjoyment of those 'experiences'. Our hiking gear, though much less expensive, is for the hiking 'experiences' along the way. Same is true for people who enjoy 'experiences' based on other relatively expensive gear (boating, golfing, etc.)
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
This x1000. I'll likely never own a high-end car, although we can easily afford to, but someone explain to me how owning and driving such a car is somehow less of an "experience" than an international vacation or taking your family to Disneyworld? Every one of us is unique, especially in what brings us happiness; somehow we've established this illogical concept that what brings one person joy is somehow morally superior to what gets someone else's rocks off.JackoC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:25 amI agree and would take it as a given, maybe some people don't, that consumption spending is consumption spending. Some people feel 'studies' justify lecturing other people to emphasize paying $ for 'experiences' over 'things'. Their opinion is fine for them though I enjoy what I enjoy, thanks, and don't necessarily see a bright line between those two categories anyway*. But everyone reasonable has to acknowledge a $ is a $ in terms of whether you can afford to spend it or not. And another perhaps obvious (but again perhaps not) point is that to me 'lifestyle creep' as a problem means eventually spending, without it being your explicit plan, more $ than you can really afford to reach your explicit financial independence, retirement or bequest goals. If people think spending fewer $'s is a virtue in itself, aside from what you can afford, I think they should be clearer about that. I get the sense that idea is often included in posts here, whether even the post writers are fully aware of it themselves. I think those people should more carefully consider if that's what they are actually saying, and spell it out if so.IMO wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 am OP, if you're trying to avoid lifestyle creep, my 1st recommendation is to be honest to recognize "lifestyle creep."
So far, there has been a number of posts that seem to equate lifestyle creep with buying/owning material things. Material things are obviously fair game to consider when it comes to lifestyle creep. It's the easy scapegoat, for example, spending $6K of "stuff" that fills one's garage will always be the ongoing reminder that one has spend the money. Just walk into your garage everyday and you can ask, why/when did I end up with all these bikes, golf clubs, and even the expensive car(s).
What hasn't been mentioned is the concept of lifestyle creep when it comes to the pure "experiences" one purchases in life. These things are the travel, the airline flights (be it economy/business/1st class), the rental cars, the hotels (be it budget or high end), the restaurants, the excursions/activities, etc. These things are a very significant aspect to lifestyle creep, but unlike buying $6K worth of stuff, the trip spent $6K on experiences. The big difference is one isn't reminded daily of the experiential spending because there is no material thing left over to clutter up the garage.
*our nicer car is chosen for the main purpose of long road trips, it's integral to our enjoyment of those 'experiences'. Our hiking gear, though much less expensive, is for the hiking 'experiences' along the way. Same is true for people who enjoy 'experiences' based on other relatively expensive gear (boating, golfing, etc.)
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Willpower.
I learned a long time ago to be happy with what I have. So I'm not always craving more.
"Acceptable" is a term each of us must quantify for ourselves and our family.How much lifestyle creep is acceptable?
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
You probably know already its just reinforcing good behavior and this forum is superb for that. Keep emotions in check and only buy what is truly enjoyed and used. My dream creep would be a mansion near Audubon Park in New Orleans. Many go for a couple million now but I need to remember the maintenance and taxes and utilities. For me to be comfortable with that kind of creep, I would need like 3X the purchase price. That would be the minimum on top of my personal income for me not to flinch when the painter wants $100,000 every five years to cover the place. Right now my net worth is long way from that. Ok, this would be lifestyle broad jump, not creep.
Last edited by stonerolled on Sun Sep 19, 2021 5:56 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Lifestyle creep is fine -- if you're earning more money, spend some of it, that's what it's there for. As much as you can afford. But I try to focus more on things that improve quality of life or sense of well being or long term enjoyment rather than stuff that gives a momentary jolt of excitement but fades.
Good food, vacations, massages, paying people to do chores or tasks you don't enjoy? Pay up. Like to ski or woodwork or cook, buying new equipment that you'll use for the long term? Great, buy it. New iPhone or drone or anything you'd buy because you go "ooh that's cool", maybe ask yourself will you still think it's so cool in a month? It takes some discipline but I've felt better having less stuff. There's a real mental tax to owning stuff.
It's different for everyone -- some people really love watches, get a lot of enjoyment out of nice watches for years and years. For some people they're just gadgets / status symbols. Me, I always get excited about new apple computers when they come out. Cool, fast, shiny. But I had my last mac for 9 years before it died because there wasn't anything it couldn't do that I needed or wanted it to do.
Good food, vacations, massages, paying people to do chores or tasks you don't enjoy? Pay up. Like to ski or woodwork or cook, buying new equipment that you'll use for the long term? Great, buy it. New iPhone or drone or anything you'd buy because you go "ooh that's cool", maybe ask yourself will you still think it's so cool in a month? It takes some discipline but I've felt better having less stuff. There's a real mental tax to owning stuff.
It's different for everyone -- some people really love watches, get a lot of enjoyment out of nice watches for years and years. For some people they're just gadgets / status symbols. Me, I always get excited about new apple computers when they come out. Cool, fast, shiny. But I had my last mac for 9 years before it died because there wasn't anything it couldn't do that I needed or wanted it to do.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
All great responses, as always. So I'm the type that doesn't set a budget but I do spend very carefully.
I'm planning to sell the extra car next month. I like it but I do not want to get into spending a lot more money on it, and there's at least 2-3 big projects it needs which I do not want to get involved in. Will include all details with ad for transparency.
For the phone, I will hold off for now, as my son isn't doing after school activities yet. Even he admits he doesn't need it.
With the above financial savings, I decided to buy new tires for my commuter vehicle (tread getting low, 1 tire patched 3x already) which seems more reasonable a purchase than sinking money into a fun car or a new phone. We will keep both our main vehicles for several more years.
I appreciate all the feedback!
I'm planning to sell the extra car next month. I like it but I do not want to get into spending a lot more money on it, and there's at least 2-3 big projects it needs which I do not want to get involved in. Will include all details with ad for transparency.
For the phone, I will hold off for now, as my son isn't doing after school activities yet. Even he admits he doesn't need it.
With the above financial savings, I decided to buy new tires for my commuter vehicle (tread getting low, 1 tire patched 3x already) which seems more reasonable a purchase than sinking money into a fun car or a new phone. We will keep both our main vehicles for several more years.
I appreciate all the feedback!
Light weight baby!
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
Okay, off the soapbox.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Happiness is an internal state. You won’t find it blowing sustenance externally. Learn how to simply be happy and your problem is solved.RobLyons wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm Without diving into a too much detail, I've reached a point where I'm starting to notice we are spending a lot more on things like eating out, gadgets, a fun 3rd car, social gatherings, a gaming setup for one of our kids... While I don't have any regrets I fear this may continue to spiral (shopping for the newest iPhone on my new MacBook Air). We still maintain a 6 month EF, max retirement accounts, have a pension, and I have no desire to retire earlier than 60 or 65.
So my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
How much lifestyle creep is acceptable?
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
tetractys wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:44 pmHappiness is an internal state. You won’t find it blowing sustenance externally. Learn how to simply be happy and your problem is solved.RobLyons wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm Without diving into a too much detail, I've reached a point where I'm starting to notice we are spending a lot more on things like eating out, gadgets, a fun 3rd car, social gatherings, a gaming setup for one of our kids... While I don't have any regrets I fear this may continue to spiral (shopping for the newest iPhone on my new MacBook Air). We still maintain a 6 month EF, max retirement accounts, have a pension, and I have no desire to retire earlier than 60 or 65.
So my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
How much lifestyle creep is acceptable?
I guess I've lived so frugally over the past 10-15 years, now that I've hit all my investment/savings goals, I'm starting to make purchases I never would have before (but always wanted to). I'm quite happy in my current situation and I appreciate your feedback!
Light weight baby!
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
This struck me as "stop most of life's activities"...UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 8:36 pm2. Remember that we are in a pandemic. Don't eat at restaurants. Don't travel. Cancel gym memberships. Don't be spending money on covid-risky activities.
I eat outdoors whenever going to restaurants (mask if going indoors to order).
We never travel (on a plane)
Love the gym, it's very important to me (22 year member) for physical and mental health
--> (love lifting weights, and varied cardio, impossible to accrue enough weights/equipment at home to get the type of workout I enjoy)
We are in a highly vaccinated state / region and we wear masks indoor any public places just in case. Our positivity rate is quite low as are our hospitalizations. Basic public / personal health precautions go a long way! Not arguing, just explaining my point of view. Take care!
Light weight baby!
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Op, to me / us, we are planning to spend which seems reasonable and makes us happy.
There is no point to be frugal and frugal, and once you are frugal you cannot spend much as well in later part of life.
As in another discussion on flying first class, someone stated " if you do not fly first class, your inheritances will" so enjoy as you can with some limits / reasoning.
Or start the charity giving more so you have less and less if you can and you want to.
There is no point to be frugal and frugal, and once you are frugal you cannot spend much as well in later part of life.
As in another discussion on flying first class, someone stated " if you do not fly first class, your inheritances will" so enjoy as you can with some limits / reasoning.
Or start the charity giving more so you have less and less if you can and you want to.
Invest when you have the money, sell when you need the money, for real life expenses...
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Amen. People can’t wait to chime in to state they only spend money on experiences.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Agreed - why would I avoid lifestyle creep if I can afford it?London wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 amAmen. People can’t wait to chime in to state they only spend money on experiences.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
Maybe the question is more related to... "can I afford this specific lifestyle creep">
And questions like those are incredibly different and personal to each ones situation
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
It's almost a moral superiority thing today. There is no doubt that the results of this study fall in line with my experience with "experiences" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2837207/. I've had buyer's remorse significantly more with experiences (especially vacations, but also eating out (which I simply don't do ever anymore), amusement parks - Disney - etc.) than I have with buying consumer goods. This may be due to the fact that we have a low overall level of "things" and I am willing to try pretty much anything once when it comes to "experiences", but I'll research anything I buy for long periods of time. Nonetheless, I know (for myself, at this point in my life), that spending a few $K on a new gadget (or an e-bike) will have a greater effect on my happiness than spending the same on a vacation.London wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 amAmen. People can’t wait to chime in to state they only spend money on experiences.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
Last edited by stoptothink on Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:32 am, edited 1 time in total.
- Cheez-It Guy
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Pretty easy. Just be born with a personality type and raised in an environment where said creep is not even a temptation.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
OP: Reading your responses to me and other commenters, I'm not sure why you even asked the original question. You seem quite content with your lifestyle, and you admit it has had some creep in recent years. What exactly is your goal?
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
For me the big thing is that I was always very careful about spending money on things that have recurring costs.RobLyons wrote: ↑Thu Sep 16, 2021 7:30 pm Without diving into a too much detail, I've reached a point where I'm starting to notice we are spending a lot more on things like eating out, gadgets, a fun 3rd car, social gatherings, a gaming setup for one of our kids... While I don't have any regrets I fear this may continue to spiral (shopping for the newest iPhone on my new MacBook Air).
So my question is how do you personally avoid lifestyle creep?
If you occasionally spend a few hundred dollars on some gadget or a few thousand on a vacation then that may or may not have been worth it but it was a one time cost so I never really worried too much about things like that.
Eating out is more complex and while the money can add up it is hard to have healthy meals when you are eating out regularly and that is more of a concern to me than the cost. When we do eat out it is usually at some place like a local Chinese or Mexican restaurant which is not terribly expensive, if you do not do it every week.
Last edited by Watty on Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:51 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
"I am willing to try pretty much anything once when it comes to "experiences"stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:28 amIt's almost a moral superiority thing today. There is no doubt that the results of this study fall in line with my experience with "experiences" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2837207/. I've had buyer's remorse significantly more with experiences (especially vacations, but also eating out (which I simply don't do ever anymore), amusement parks - Disney - etc.) than I have with buying consumer goods. This may be due to the fact that we have a low overall level of "things" and I am willing to try pretty much anything once when it comes to "experiences", but I'll research anything I buy for long periods of time. Nonetheless, I know (for myself, at this point in my life), that spending a few $K on a new gadget (or an e-bike) will have a greater effect on my happiness than spending the same on a vacation.London wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:17 amAmen. People can’t wait to chime in to state they only spend money on experiences.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
... spending a few $K on a new gadget (or an e-bike) will have a greater effect on my happiness than spending the same on a vacation."
Perhaps try some of these...
On that Disney or other theme park trip:
- plan ahead so you have little or no waiting
- invite a parent that will share these onetime experiences with you and the children
- invite a friend of your children that otherwise would not get the chance
- research the rides/shows/parades/interactives enough to have some guidance
- also use the time as an educational experience for the zoo's, history and working aspects
Other trips that can have great experiences:
- Sites with museams and historical destinations
- Olympics
- Zoo's and Aquariums with interactive activities
- trips where you help teach and/or build with the locals
- trips invloving skiing and hiking across new areas
- places that have good snorkeling, diving , wakeboarding, sailing, fishing, etc
- a trip that has ranching, horseback riding, etc
- maybe a place that has 4X4 offroading, quads, rock crawls , bikes etc
- charter a boat in any new place
There are so many things that can be done with a family or a family and parents & friends and or partially as a volunteer.
Just a huge world to ge more familair with when you have the ability to do so.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Absolutely agree. I for one do not need more travel vacation "experiences". Its all such a hassle when you're already content. I agree it's another marketing ploy to seperate you from your$. It's sold as your too intelligent to think more stuff we'll make you happier, so guess what we have the solution for you...special experiences for special high IQ people like you! Heheehee.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I noticed that getting rid of my TV and not renewing travel and lifestyle magazine subscriptions really curbed my spending by vastly reducing the amount of ad content I was exposed to. Also finding free or low cost hobbies that keep me content (yoga, qigong, photography) helped too.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
This is our strategy:
Lifestyle creep is inevitable, the key is to increase purposefully with thought in mind. We try to buy things that we value and attempt to avoid wasteful spending. That requires thought. We have a rule in our family. If we want something, the more expensive it is, the longer we have to wait and decide if we really want it. If after the time has passed and we still feel this is an item we will value. We get it.
Just some examples of valueless spending vs value spending.
Upgrading a new iPhone every year makes no sense to me. The new iPhone 13 does nothing for me that my current iPhone doesn't do. Upgrading to the new phone is wasteful for us. On the other hand, I recently upgraded my headphones to the AirPod Pros. To me, it has great value and improves my workout and plane travel experience.
Another example is flying domestic first class. For the money to us, it adds little value for these short flights. We have found in the past that when we fly coach overseas we show up tired and go straight to the hotel and rest. We basically lose the first day to rest. We had a trip to Europe where we were meeting out friends, but our time off was short and limited. So, we chose to go first class and bought ourselves an extra day. To us, the experience was worth the extra money.
Just realize that your money has a value. It is the equivalent of our labor. You must put in X hours to get the cash, pay taxes and then buy what you want. Is that item worth your time? One example I can give is a higher end sports car. I currently work part time. If I wanted to, I can go back to full time and make some extra cash to purchase my dream car. But, when I think about taking that time away from my family, my hobbies, my workouts, our traveling, just to buy a car, it appears so stupid. My time is far more valuable than that car.
My too long didn't read point. Value your time and your money and make your best effort to spend on high value things skipping the rest.
Good luck
Lifestyle creep is inevitable, the key is to increase purposefully with thought in mind. We try to buy things that we value and attempt to avoid wasteful spending. That requires thought. We have a rule in our family. If we want something, the more expensive it is, the longer we have to wait and decide if we really want it. If after the time has passed and we still feel this is an item we will value. We get it.
Just some examples of valueless spending vs value spending.
Upgrading a new iPhone every year makes no sense to me. The new iPhone 13 does nothing for me that my current iPhone doesn't do. Upgrading to the new phone is wasteful for us. On the other hand, I recently upgraded my headphones to the AirPod Pros. To me, it has great value and improves my workout and plane travel experience.
Another example is flying domestic first class. For the money to us, it adds little value for these short flights. We have found in the past that when we fly coach overseas we show up tired and go straight to the hotel and rest. We basically lose the first day to rest. We had a trip to Europe where we were meeting out friends, but our time off was short and limited. So, we chose to go first class and bought ourselves an extra day. To us, the experience was worth the extra money.
Just realize that your money has a value. It is the equivalent of our labor. You must put in X hours to get the cash, pay taxes and then buy what you want. Is that item worth your time? One example I can give is a higher end sports car. I currently work part time. If I wanted to, I can go back to full time and make some extra cash to purchase my dream car. But, when I think about taking that time away from my family, my hobbies, my workouts, our traveling, just to buy a car, it appears so stupid. My time is far more valuable than that car.
My too long didn't read point. Value your time and your money and make your best effort to spend on high value things skipping the rest.
Good luck
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: |
viewtopic.php?p=1139732#p1139732
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I have nothing more to contribute that has not already been said. But I will say that when temptation creeps in to make a purchase (a thing or an experience), I visit this forum and read through such threads for sage advise. Thanks Boglers!
Taking care of tomorrow while enjoying today.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I think it's best to ALLOW some lifestyle creep. What's the point of accumulating wealth unless you will enjoy some of it? The problem is spending on things that don't enhance your life. One thing that has worked for me is to wait a week or more, instead of making a purchase on impulse. If, after two weeks, you really want to buy something, the odds of it being something that really will enhance your life are higher.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
This is a miniature version of Delayed-Gratification of sortsJDave wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:44 am I think it's best to ALLOW some lifestyle creep. What's the point of accumulating wealth unless you will enjoy some of it? The problem is spending on things that don't enhance your life. One thing that has worked for me is to wait a week or more, instead of making a purchase on impulse. If, after two weeks, you really want to buy something, the odds of it being something that really will enhance your life are higher.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
It is a gross simplification because there is little difference real difference between material goods and experiences other than the label we put on them as most material possessions are used to generate experiences. If I buy a book that is a material possession. The second I start reading I have the material possession of the book and the experience of reading the book. The part that is important is the value we place on the experience. And some experiences have been linked to more happiness than others. For example let's say I go buy a porsche 911. Studies suggest that the experience of commuting to work in that 911 is unlikely to change my happiness much. Taking that same 911 to the track and mastering the skill of driving fast might make me happy.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 7:28 am
It's almost a moral superiority thing today. There is no doubt that the results of this study fall in line with my experience with "experiences" https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2837207/. I've had buyer's remorse significantly more with experiences (especially vacations, but also eating out (which I simply don't do ever anymore), amusement parks - Disney - etc.) than I have with buying consumer goods. This may be due to the fact that we have a low overall level of "things" and I am willing to try pretty much anything once when it comes to "experiences", but I'll research anything I buy for long periods of time. Nonetheless, I know (for myself, at this point in my life), that spending a few $K on a new gadget (or an e-bike) will have a greater effect on my happiness than spending the same on a vacation.
The complaint about material goods is largely people buying stuff that they don't use (i.e. no experiences being generated) or care about (you buy something that other people thing you should buy). It is a lot harder to sum that into a catchy slogan like "Experiences versus things".
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
There is some evidence that people adapt quickly to their new surroudings and that becomes their baseline -- so the big fancy house you buy becomes your 'new normal' rather than permanently increasing your happiness. So there's a little more to it than just marketing (but a lot of it is marketing, too!) But the "experience" effect is strongest among people who are already pretty well-off, and at that point, we're just talking about the marginal value of a bigger house or car over the novelty of a new vacation.59Gibson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:14 amAbsolutely agree. I for one do not need more travel vacation "experiences". Its all such a hassle when you're already content. I agree it's another marketing ploy to seperate you from your$. It's sold as your too intelligent to think more stuff we'll make you happier, so guess what we have the solution for you...special experiences for special high IQ people like you! Heheehee.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
And that's leaving aside the value of 'experiences' that come through having things. I don't know about everyone else, but when I buy nice skis or a new bike, I then *use* those things to have enjoyable experiences which are more enjoyable when my gear works just so. If I don't use them, then they don't make me happier, but that's not because of some deep truth about the nature of experience vs. things, just that one doesn't get pleasure out of owning skis, but in their use.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Try moving. Nothing forces you to cutdown on stuff like moving.
Short of that. Maybe go through all the stuff you have and sell/donate anything that hasn't been used in recent memory (arbitrarily the last year). The garage seems to collect things like this so maybe start looking there.
That said, I think it is worth asking whether or not you actually have lifestyle creep. Maybe you do or maybe you don't, but that's not clear from what has been shared. So you bought a new computer. How long did you use the last one before buying the new one? Same question with the phone. Buying a game setup for a kid doesn't strike me as a big deal (unless you already have several ). If you are getting good mileage out of the things you have, then that doesn't actually sound like a problem. However if you are getting the latest new shiny gadget right after getting last years one, yeah that sounds like a problem. So would reflect on that a bit
Short of that. Maybe go through all the stuff you have and sell/donate anything that hasn't been used in recent memory (arbitrarily the last year). The garage seems to collect things like this so maybe start looking there.
That said, I think it is worth asking whether or not you actually have lifestyle creep. Maybe you do or maybe you don't, but that's not clear from what has been shared. So you bought a new computer. How long did you use the last one before buying the new one? Same question with the phone. Buying a game setup for a kid doesn't strike me as a big deal (unless you already have several ). If you are getting good mileage out of the things you have, then that doesn't actually sound like a problem. However if you are getting the latest new shiny gadget right after getting last years one, yeah that sounds like a problem. So would reflect on that a bit
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
I think there are a whole lot of folks (mostly not here on BH) who buy and consume things *thinking* that will make them happier, but it doesn't.stoptothink wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:53 amThis x1000. I'll likely never own a high-end car, although we can easily afford to, but someone explain to me how owning and driving such a car is somehow less of an "experience" than an international vacation or taking your family to Disneyworld? Every one of us is unique, especially in what brings us happiness; somehow we've established this illogical concept that what brings one person joy is somehow morally superior to what gets someone else's rocks off.JackoC wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 9:25 amI agree and would take it as a given, maybe some people don't, that consumption spending is consumption spending. Some people feel 'studies' justify lecturing other people to emphasize paying $ for 'experiences' over 'things'. Their opinion is fine for them though I enjoy what I enjoy, thanks, and don't necessarily see a bright line between those two categories anyway*. But everyone reasonable has to acknowledge a $ is a $ in terms of whether you can afford to spend it or not. And another perhaps obvious (but again perhaps not) point is that to me 'lifestyle creep' as a problem means eventually spending, without it being your explicit plan, more $ than you can really afford to reach your explicit financial independence, retirement or bequest goals. If people think spending fewer $'s is a virtue in itself, aside from what you can afford, I think they should be clearer about that. I get the sense that idea is often included in posts here, whether even the post writers are fully aware of it themselves. I think those people should more carefully consider if that's what they are actually saying, and spell it out if so.IMO wrote: ↑Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:51 am OP, if you're trying to avoid lifestyle creep, my 1st recommendation is to be honest to recognize "lifestyle creep."
So far, there has been a number of posts that seem to equate lifestyle creep with buying/owning material things. Material things are obviously fair game to consider when it comes to lifestyle creep. It's the easy scapegoat, for example, spending $6K of "stuff" that fills one's garage will always be the ongoing reminder that one has spend the money. Just walk into your garage everyday and you can ask, why/when did I end up with all these bikes, golf clubs, and even the expensive car(s).
What hasn't been mentioned is the concept of lifestyle creep when it comes to the pure "experiences" one purchases in life. These things are the travel, the airline flights (be it economy/business/1st class), the rental cars, the hotels (be it budget or high end), the restaurants, the excursions/activities, etc. These things are a very significant aspect to lifestyle creep, but unlike buying $6K worth of stuff, the trip spent $6K on experiences. The big difference is one isn't reminded daily of the experiential spending because there is no material thing left over to clutter up the garage.
*our nicer car is chosen for the main purpose of long road trips, it's integral to our enjoyment of those 'experiences'. Our hiking gear, though much less expensive, is for the hiking 'experiences' along the way. Same is true for people who enjoy 'experiences' based on other relatively expensive gear (boating, golfing, etc.)
For many folks on BH, it's not really that useful to have a things vs. experiences debate since the crowd here is typically more thoughtful about how they spend their money on both things and experiences to the point that they are buying things and/or experiences that do bring them incremental happiness.
TL;DR - when you have your financial house in order, you should feel free to prioritize buying things, experiences or any combination.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
OP,
Slightly different slant.
Retired family doctor which means delayed gratification to the max. Save for college, school loans,house down payment, purchase of medical office building, savings for retirement, emergency funds.Over 30 before net worth was a positive number. Some cash flow issues in FP practice on occasion. Both kids went to grad school. $$$ !
Now saving for Roth conversion and bequest plans. Taxes are high.I’m sure there’s something I’m leaving out.
Still managed to retire at 65. Probably saved too much but mostly from the stock market, 1983 till present, and dumb luck.
So, I hope to get back to gratification before I die. While meeting family needs, travel, nice house and cars. (Of course over and above legacy spending, QCD and RMD.) It’s difficult to spend when we have a lifetime saving habits. The data support this for many/most.
No creep except what I’ve been delaying. I believe letting spend rise gradually over the years is a reasonable goal. Never was able to keep up with the Jones. Keep your eye on the ball.
Respectfully HVAC
Slightly different slant.
Retired family doctor which means delayed gratification to the max. Save for college, school loans,house down payment, purchase of medical office building, savings for retirement, emergency funds.Over 30 before net worth was a positive number. Some cash flow issues in FP practice on occasion. Both kids went to grad school. $$$ !
Now saving for Roth conversion and bequest plans. Taxes are high.I’m sure there’s something I’m leaving out.
Still managed to retire at 65. Probably saved too much but mostly from the stock market, 1983 till present, and dumb luck.
So, I hope to get back to gratification before I die. While meeting family needs, travel, nice house and cars. (Of course over and above legacy spending, QCD and RMD.) It’s difficult to spend when we have a lifetime saving habits. The data support this for many/most.
No creep except what I’ve been delaying. I believe letting spend rise gradually over the years is a reasonable goal. Never was able to keep up with the Jones. Keep your eye on the ball.
Respectfully HVAC
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
For physicians in particular, a slow lifestyle creep in my opinion is ideal. Most physicians have a peak earnings potential that they reach pretty early in their career unless they go in and in administration or own a practice where they take profits from the work of other providers. This is different than the corporate or IT world where people can get promotions and keep growing their income for many years before hitting their plateau.hvaclorax wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:32 am OP,
Slightly different slant.
Retired family doctor which means delayed gratification to the max. Save for college, school loans,house down payment, purchase of medical office building, savings for retirement, emergency funds.Over 30 before net worth was a positive number. Some cash flow issues in FP practice on occasion. Both kids went to grad school. $$$ !
Now saving for Roth conversion and bequest plans. Taxes are high.I’m sure there’s something I’m leaving out.
Still managed to retire at 65. Probably saved too much but mostly from the stock market, 1983 till present, and dumb luck.
So, I hope to get back to gratification before I die. While meeting family needs, travel, nice house and cars. (Of course over and above legacy spending, QCD and RMD.) It’s difficult to spend when we have a lifetime saving habits. The data support this for many/most.
No creep except what I’ve been delaying. I believe letting spend rise gradually over the years is a reasonable goal. Never was able to keep up with the Jones. Keep your eye on the ball.
Respectfully HVAC
Since docs are capped, it is a good idea to allow lifestyle creep slowly by only a few percentage points every year once out of residency. This gives a physician time to catch up by clearing out high interest rate debt, saving for a house down payment and building a decent portfolio. As wealth increases so can the yearly spending (up to a point.) a slow and steady lifestyle creep I think provides far more happiness then a huge jump right out the gate with little room to expand.
A time to EVALUATE your jitters: |
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
"Do not pray for what you desire; pray to lose the desire" - Anon.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Couldn’t agree more. HVACEnjoyIt wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 1:12 pmFor physicians in particular, a slow lifestyle creep in my opinion is ideal. Most physicians have a peak earnings potential that they reach pretty early in their career unless they go in and in administration or own a practice where they take profits from the work of other providers. This is different than the corporate or IT world where people can get promotions and keep growing their income for many years before hitting their plateau.hvaclorax wrote: ↑Tue Dec 14, 2021 11:32 am OP,
Slightly different slant.
Retired family doctor which means delayed gratification to the max. Save for college, school loans,house down payment, purchase of medical office building, savings for retirement, emergency funds.Over 30 before net worth was a positive number. Some cash flow issues in FP practice on occasion. Both kids went to grad school. $$$ !
Now saving for Roth conversion and bequest plans. Taxes are high.I’m sure there’s something I’m leaving out.
Still managed to retire at 65. Probably saved too much but mostly from the stock market, 1983 till present, and dumb luck.
So, I hope to get back to gratification before I die. While meeting family needs, travel, nice house and cars. (Of course over and above legacy spending, QCD and RMD.) It’s difficult to spend when we have a lifetime saving habits. The data support this for many/most.
No creep except what I’ve been delaying. I believe letting spend rise gradually over the years is a reasonable goal. Never was able to keep up with the Jones. Keep your eye on the ball.
Respectfully HVAC
Since docs are capped, it is a good idea to allow lifestyle creep slowly by only a few percentage points every year once out of residency. This gives a physician time to catch up by clearing out high interest rate debt, saving for a house down payment and building a decent portfolio. As wealth increases so can the yearly spending (up to a point.) a slow and steady lifestyle creep I think provides far more happiness then a huge jump right out the gate with little room to expand.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Just ask yourself if buying that big screen tv really made that much difference in your life as your on your death bed. Doubt it.
Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
What will make much of a difference in your life when you are on your death bed? Definitely not the TV. Or travel. Or the cars you drive. The house you own. The concerts you went to. The book you read. The trails you hiked. And pretty much everything else you do. None of them individually are really big enough to matter. But put a couple hundred of them together and you get a heck of a lot of joy alone the way.
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
This is true above. However, we’ve made our house nice enough that we miss it after 3/4 days of vacation. Think Toto toilet seats.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 1:20 pmThere is some evidence that people adapt quickly to their new surroudings and that becomes their baseline -- so the big fancy house you buy becomes your 'new normal' rather than permanently increasing your happiness. So there's a little more to it than just marketing (but a lot of it is marketing, too!) But the "experience" effect is strongest among people who are already pretty well-off, and at that point, we're just talking about the marginal value of a bigger house or car over the novelty of a new vacation.59Gibson wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:14 amAbsolutely agree. I for one do not need more travel vacation "experiences". Its all such a hassle when you're already content. I agree it's another marketing ploy to seperate you from your$. It's sold as your too intelligent to think more stuff we'll make you happier, so guess what we have the solution for you...special experiences for special high IQ people like you! Heheehee.getthatmarshmallow wrote: ↑Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:57 pm The research on "things vs experiences" is mostly bunk anyway. If one already has a satisfactory level of things -- nice dwelling, adequate car, comfortable clothing - one gets more of a hedonic hit out of the novelty of travel, food etc than by *upgrading* to nicer things. But that's a far cry from saying that experiences are better - they're just things that upper middle class people haven't yet bought. If you have crummy stuff, buying things might make you happier
Okay, off the soapbox.
And that's leaving aside the value of 'experiences' that come through having things. I don't know about everyone else, but when I buy nice skis or a new bike, I then *use* those things to have enjoyable experiences which are more enjoyable when my gear works just so. If I don't use them, then they don't make me happier, but that's not because of some deep truth about the nature of experience vs. things, just that one doesn't get pleasure out of owning skis, but in their use.
There is a positive there somewhere! I.e. taking a fun vacation which then makes you miss your home!
On topic, we’ve had lifestyle creep, but within reason. Never regretted any purchase or vacation, which begs the question have we missed out on more/better stuff and vacations??
I think If I don’t FIRE on time that would be a big miss and regret.
On time for me, is when I can own 100% of my time (no school, kids activities etc breaking up my day!)
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ |
“How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Embrace being the outcast and rebel amongst your peers. I have friends begging me to upgrade my car and buy new clothes other than plain white tee-shirts... why?
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Re: How do you avoid lifestyle creep?
Save 50% of any increase in income (raises). After taxes, that leaves only about 15% for "creep" and inflation.