Tire flat fixing for beginners

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hudson
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by hudson »

sureshoe wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 10:32 am A point I made earlier in the thread was that "all these cars have funky jacks, so I was curious - what is the funky jack on the 4Runner.
The 2013 Tundra and the 2018 4Runner have jacks that I consider minimal. When I attempted to change a tire on the Tundra in a flat parking lot, the jack kept slipping off of the axle. I bought one that's stronger and more dependable. this....https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003U ... UTF8&psc=1

The 4Runner jack goes high enough to remove a flat tire; it's not high enough to put an inflated spare on without putting a board underneath...and that's on a level concrete driveway. I now carry a jack like this: https://www.amazon.in/ACDelco-34126-Cap ... B0017UFRV4

Bottom line: Test your jack. Carry a board (s) or something to put under your jack.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Doom&Gloom »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:36 am
seawolf21 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:18 am So this thread is not really about fixing a flat. It’s about changing a tire. My first thought was flat is $10-30. Just leaving it to professionals as puncturing a tire should not happen that often.
I've "repaired" some tires using external plugs and destroyed one of them (not immediately - the problem wasn't obvious until later) in the process. Today I wouldn't insert a plug without unmounting the tire and installing the plug properly from the inside, unless I was willing to dispose of the tire shortly after plugging it.
Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair.

I have plugged lawnmower tires a dozen or more times (most of them after a careless re-roofing crew left many nails in the yard). Luckily (?) I located most of them :x
Still, I wouldn't dream of plugging a car tire myself even if I were comfortably home.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:03 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:36 am
seawolf21 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:18 am So this thread is not really about fixing a flat. It’s about changing a tire. My first thought was flat is $10-30. Just leaving it to professionals as puncturing a tire should not happen that often.
I've "repaired" some tires using external plugs and destroyed one of them (not immediately - the problem wasn't obvious until later) in the process. Today I wouldn't insert a plug without unmounting the tire and installing the plug properly from the inside, unless I was willing to dispose of the tire shortly after plugging it.
Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair.

I have plugged lawnmower tires a dozen or more times (most of them after a careless re-roofing crew left many nails in the yard). Luckily (?) I located most of them :x
Still, I wouldn't dream of plugging a car tire myself even if I were comfortably home.
I did; back then I always had a plug kit with me. Years ago it wasn't as almost universal as today that professionals would plug tires from the inside, the way it should always have been done. Today I'd only want a plug properly installed from the inside.
smitcat
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by smitcat »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:03 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:36 am
seawolf21 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:18 am So this thread is not really about fixing a flat. It’s about changing a tire. My first thought was flat is $10-30. Just leaving it to professionals as puncturing a tire should not happen that often.
I've "repaired" some tires using external plugs and destroyed one of them (not immediately - the problem wasn't obvious until later) in the process. Today I wouldn't insert a plug without unmounting the tire and installing the plug properly from the inside, unless I was willing to dispose of the tire shortly after plugging it.
Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair.

I have plugged lawnmower tires a dozen or more times (most of them after a careless re-roofing crew left many nails in the yard). Luckily (?) I located most of them :x
Still, I wouldn't dream of plugging a car tire myself even if I were comfortably home.

"Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair."
Yes - it can be done.
neilpilot
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by neilpilot »

Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:03 pm
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:36 am
seawolf21 wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 11:18 am So this thread is not really about fixing a flat. It’s about changing a tire. My first thought was flat is $10-30. Just leaving it to professionals as puncturing a tire should not happen that often.
I've "repaired" some tires using external plugs and destroyed one of them (not immediately - the problem wasn't obvious until later) in the process. Today I wouldn't insert a plug without unmounting the tire and installing the plug properly from the inside, unless I was willing to dispose of the tire shortly after plugging it.
Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair.

I have plugged lawnmower tires a dozen or more times (most of them after a careless re-roofing crew left many nails in the yard). Luckily (?) I located most of them :x
Still, I wouldn't dream of plugging a car tire myself even if I were comfortably home.
My new car came with an inflator and a can of fix-a-flat. No spare and no jack, and no room for a donut spare unless I want to take up trunk space. I will buy and carry a plug kit.
TravelforFun
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by TravelforFun »

Not addressing the topic but did anyone mention that the most important thing to do when you get a flat, run out of gas, or have a car trouble on a freeway is to pull your car onto the RIGHT shoulder as far away from the traffic as possible before doing anything else?

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TexasPE
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by TexasPE »

smitcat wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:21 pm
Doom&Gloom wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 12:03 pm
Other than possibly off-roaders, do people really repair/plug tires during daily driving? I
I've had many flats on vehicles and changed many tires, mostly decades ago, but never once dreamed of doing a roadside repair."
Yes - it can be done.
If you live in hurricane country, a plug kit and 12 volt compressor are important if you plan to return to your home immediately after the storm. Roofing nails and shingles with nails are everywhere on the streets, and most tire service providers are closed (no electricity).
At 20: I cared what everyone thought about me | At 40: I didn't give a damn what anyone thought of me | Now that I'm 60: I realize that no one was really thinking about me at all | Winston Churchill (?)
Point
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Point »

I realized a while back that I could fill or top off my tires with a bicycle pump. It’s a workout, but doable. Perhaps you could have them check tire pressure and top off on those cold mornings so they learn how to, and learn about looking at their tire inflation and condition every time they walk up to the car.
Dagwood
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Dagwood »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:55 am
Dagwood wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:54 am
tibbitts wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:36 pm Due to the small and decreasing number of vehicles that have a spare tire or even dedicated storage space for a donut, it really seems like everybody should be more focused on enabling communication regardless of cell service, instead of equipping the family Corolla as if it's a race car hauler.
I think it is shameful that spare wheels are being eliminated. It is a basic safety issue. If you use a car for local commuting, the risk of inconvenience is relatively low. If you use the vehicle for road trips, a spare is essential. Carrying gloves, a small piece of wood to use as a chock, and being familiar with how to use the factory jack and tools does not require anything like a race car hauler. It’s the equivalent of traveling with a dop kit for an overnight trip.
As I mentioned, I agree enough that when I bought a model without a spare, I bought the OEM donut to safely carry the tools and donut in the designated compartment under the floor. But I imagine some cars no longer have designated spare (or even donut spare) storage, leaving people to figure out how to safely store the array of weaponry being discussed. An impact wrench... really? Actually my half-inch-drive electric impact wrench can't loosen a stuck lug nut unless I break it loose with a wrench, so we have to make that a very good electric impact wrench. And some cars with no spares probably have run-flat tires so there is that possibility as well, which should in theory preclude the necessity for storing a spare and tire-changing.

I've experienced about a half dozen flats (fewer recently) that have disabled my car (vs. being recognized early enough as slow leaks for example), and been able to change them all, except one due to the location where I chose not to. But I've also experienced as many other failures that have disabled my cars over the years: fuel pump failure, electronic ignition module failure, drive belt failure, alternator failure (almost made it home!), radiator failure, etc. And I hit a deer once. There are a lot of things including accidents that can stop a car. My point is that even the roughly one-hundred-pounds of tools and spare parts that I carried everywhere in my car back in the day couldn't rescue me from all these possibilities. So what I'm suggesting is that communication that works everywhere a person drives should be a higher priority than being prepared for every mechanical eventuality. I think we're just picking on tires because they were historically one frequent point of failure that we may have learned to deal with when we were younger so we figure newer drivers should too, even if it wouldn't necessarily be the most practical solution for them.
I am not sure I see your point. No one is saying you should carry and impact and tow a snap on tool box along. Gloves, jumpers, a small piece of wood and the tools that come with the car suffice. All of those items will fit in a trunk cubby or grocery bag. More than that is not warranted.
andypanda
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by andypanda »

"There is literally a video on "how to find the hidden 4Runner tire"."

It's in the manual, too. Remember folks, RTFM. The jack is just behind the driver's side rear brake light. Open the hatch, look for the little panel with two clips and there it is along with the tool pouch.

Image

Like many trucks with the spare up underneath behind the rear bumper (and my former 2010 Highlander Limited suv that's really a Camry) they have them set up to lower the spare all the way to the ground using a crank (or the jack handle in the case of the 4Runner.) You insert the handle into the hole just to the left of latch for the hatch. It sure beats the heck out of having to lift the full size spare out of the rear compartment or off the tailgate or wherever the manufacturer decided to hang it up. You insert the handle, lower the spare, unhook the chain and slide it out. If you like you can slide the flat under bumper and crank it up out of the way. It's actually a great idea when you consider how much a 17" steel wheel and a 265/70-17 spare weighs.

Just one Michelin Defender in that size weighs 48 pounds. I looked it up. Add in the steel wheel and it's heavy.

It's the price you pay for a body on frame truck with part-time dual-range 4WD, locking differential on the rear axle and a bunch of other stuff. If you want a car-like ride and limited off road ability, there's always the Highlander and a bunch of other SUVs and CUVs. That's Cute Utility Vehicles. ;)

Okay, we just came off the beach and I really need a shower before happy hour.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

Dagwood wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 1:32 pm I am not sure I see your point. No one is saying you should carry and impact and tow a snap on tool box along. Gloves, jumpers, a small piece of wood and the tools that come with the car suffice. All of those items will fit in a trunk cubby or grocery bag. More than that is not warranted.
No one? An impact wrench was referred to in two separate posts in this thread besides mine. And we have countless references to breaker bars and pipe extensions, a torque multiplier, aftermarket jacks, and more.
Luke Duke
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Luke Duke »

I second this recommendation. I've got one in my truck whose lug nuts are torqued to close to 200 ft-lbs. I've never had a problem getting them loose.

I also recommend a compressor like this if you have a car:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MKSP49L/

or this one if you have a truck:
https://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-30033-300P ... 000X90YUO/

Most air compressors that plug into your cigarette lighter are junk. A good compressor will draw more current than a cigarette lighter can supply.
andypanda
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by andypanda »

Sure, I referred to an impact wrench, but never said to carry one. :) But it would make changing a flat possible for someone who can't break the lug nuts loose. I bought mine to change the 3 blades on my zero turn because they tend to self tighten to a ridiculous degree. But it is handy for all sorts of stuff.

Back to the 4Runner. Doesn't anybody RTFM? Don't jack on the axle.

Image

"The best spot to raise the truck from is the center of the front crossmember under the motor if you are raising the front, and the center of the rear axle housing if you are raising the rear."
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kevinf
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by kevinf »

Luke Duke wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:29 pm Most air compressors that plug into your cigarette lighter are junk. A good compressor will draw more current than a cigarette lighter can supply.
I have to agree with this. If you do get a plug in compressor, make sure you have a spare fuse as well! I blew my fuse attempting to inflate a tire from 0 PSI. Direct to battery clamps will not have this problem.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

kevinf wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 6:28 pm
Luke Duke wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:29 pm Most air compressors that plug into your cigarette lighter are junk. A good compressor will draw more current than a cigarette lighter can supply.
I have to agree with this. If you do get a plug in compressor, make sure you have a spare fuse as well! I blew my fuse attempting to inflate a tire from 0 PSI. Direct to battery clamps will not have this problem.
Some years ago I bought what at the time was a highly-rated 12v compressor. I had the fuse problem, and converted it to battery clamps. I also had the problem with the hose burning off the connector on the compressor end. If you do purchase a compressor you have to be sure to get one that's fan-cooled with the fins protected enough that you won't burn yourself. All these compressors produce large amounts of heat and use large amounts of 12v current. There will still be a fuse in the direct-connect versions (I hope) but it should be hefty enough not to blow.
hudson
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by hudson »

andypanda wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:36 pm Sure, I referred to an impact wrench, but never said to carry one. :) But it would make changing a flat possible for someone who can't break the lug nuts loose. I bought mine to change the 3 blades on my zero turn because they tend to self tighten to a ridiculous degree. But it is handy for all sorts of stuff.

Back to the 4Runner. Doesn't anybody RTFM? Don't jack on the axle.

Image

"The best spot to raise the truck from is the center of the front crossmember under the motor if you are raising the front, and the center of the rear axle housing if you are raising the rear."
I'm not an expert or an authority. I've jacked up my 2018 SR5 4Runner two times...once to put on the spare and once to put the patched tire back on....or was it just once?

My 2018 manual shows 4 jack points...two in front on the chassis frame side rail...to the rear of the engine....same as your diagram.
There are two more jack points shown at the rear under the rear axle....same as your diagram.

I speculate that those other jack points may be for a mechanic using a lift or a floor jack....not sure....maybe not for a jack-leg tire changer like me.

Here's the 2018 4Runner Manual. The diagram is on page 441: https://www.toyota.com/t3Portal/documen ... 35B46U.pdf
Katietsu
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Katietsu »

Tires are much less likely to urgently need changed today than when I learned to drive. In the last 15 years, I recall a couple of nails in a tire. Neither was bad enough to leave me stranded on the side of the road. My current vehicle is my first without a spare. This bothered me at first. But then, I realized that I have driven 200,000 miles since I had to have a tire changed on the side of a road. But I have to get a tow for a couple of mechanical issues in that time period. Since I do not feel the need to carry around a spare fuel pump, I have decided I should be comfortable without a spare tire.

I would be focused on teaching them to make sure their phone is charged. A dead car battery and dead cell phone battery is a bad combination. Being aware of your surroundings. Choosing a safe route. Avoiding distracted driving. Get to a safe place and pull over when your check engine light flashes. Pay attention to unusual even if subtle changes in "noise" And on and on. In other words, the most important skills for a teen driver has changed.
bi0hazard
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by bi0hazard »

There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex. I do understand that with larger vehicles the tires can become difficult for anyone to handle, but that would apply to a certain percentage of both men and women.
Doctor Rhythm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Doctor Rhythm »

bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Back when we started dating, I damaged a tire while driving my future wife’s car by banging against the curb hard enough to create a sidewall aneurysm. After pulling over, I made her change the tire I ruined while I watched because “I already know how, but you don’t.”

I think there’s an important life lesson here, but I’m not sure what it is.
hudson
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Tire changing tools, torque, air pressure spare tires

Post by hudson »

Luke Duke wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:29 pm
I second this recommendation. I've got one in my truck whose lug nuts are torqued to close to 200 ft-lbs. I've never had a problem getting them loose.

I also recommend a compressor like this if you have a car:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MKSP49L/

or this one if you have a truck:
https://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-30033-300P ... 000X90YUO/

Most air compressors that plug into your cigarette lighter are junk. A good compressor will draw more current than a cigarette lighter can supply.
Thanks for the recommendations! You've tried the truck air pump?

Air Pressure Spare Tires: Yesterday, I checked and corrected air pressure in all tires including spares. All of my spares are under the vehicle. I always ask the tire people to put the spare back valve down so it's easy to check.

Tightness of Lug Nuts: This discussion reminded me to check the torque on the lug nuts. When checking the manual for torque for a 2013 Tundra, it said that the alloy wheels should be torqued to 97 foot pounds; the steel wheeled spare should be torqued to 154 foot pounds. I didn't realize that steel wheels took extra tightness. So the next time I put on a spare, I need to give the lug nuts an extra turn?
andypanda
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by andypanda »

"My 2018 manual shows 4 jack points...two in front on the chassis frame side rail...to the rear of the engine....same as your diagram.
There are two more jack points shown at the rear under the rear axle....same as your diagram."

Those are the support positions where you put the jack stands, not where you put the jack. Never crawl under a vehicle that's only supported by the jack, use jack stands too. That's why 4Runners have long jack handles, so we don't have to crawl under the truck while it's up in the air. Owners do all sorts of things, but then there's the manual with Toyota's opinion. Here's another opinion on how to jack up your truck.

www.yotatech.com/how-tos/a/toyota-4runn ... uck-414490

"This article applies to the Toyota 4Runner, Tacoma, and Tundra (1984-Present)."

Every maker has directions in the manual. The manuals are also available on line for download to your phone for those days when don't have any bars. Or just take pics of the relevant pages in the paper manual. Safety first.
smitcat
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by smitcat »

bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
squirm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by squirm »

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex. I do understand that with larger vehicles the tires can become difficult for anyone to handle, but that would apply to a certain percentage of both men and women.
There is no way in hell I would have my wife change the tire either. I've told her to call me if something ever happens like this when she's out and about. She's absolutely fine with that and wouldn't even attempt it.
squirm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by squirm »

Luke Duke wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 3:29 pm
I second this recommendation. I've got one in my truck whose lug nuts are torqued to close to 200 ft-lbs. I've never had a problem getting them loose.

I also recommend a compressor like this if you have a car:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B07MKSP49L/

or this one if you have a truck:
https://www.amazon.com/VIAIR-30033-300P ... 000X90YUO/

Most air compressors that plug into your cigarette lighter are junk. A good compressor will draw more current than a cigarette lighter can supply.
Project Farm did a good review on the 12v compressors.
anil686
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by anil686 »

I thought long and hard about teaching my kids how to change a tire - I did one in the drive way last year when my wife had a flat at home (probably drove a little bit back from work on it - she would never notice). My kids had little interest watching and participating. The more I thought about that, the more I came to the realization that they need to pull over to the side of the road and call for help - either me or a road service company (we have AAA). It is not the same as how I grew up - I have more experience with changing tires - they are way more technologically advanced than I am - they should reach out for help. JMO though….
hudson
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by hudson »

andypanda wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 6:58 am "My 2018 manual shows 4 jack points...two in front on the chassis frame side rail...to the rear of the engine....same as your diagram.
There are two more jack points shown at the rear under the rear axle....same as your diagram."

Those are the support positions where you put the jack stands, not where you put the jack. Never crawl under a vehicle that's only supported by the jack, use jack stands too. That's why 4Runners have long jack handles, so we don't have to crawl under the truck while it's up in the air. Owners do all sorts of things, but then there's the manual with Toyota's opinion. Here's another opinion on how to jack up your truck.

www.yotatech.com/how-tos/a/toyota-4runn ... uck-414490

"This article applies to the Toyota 4Runner, Tacoma, and Tundra (1984-Present)."

Every maker has directions in the manual. The manuals are also available on line for download to your phone for those days when don't have any bars. Or just take pics of the relevant pages in the paper manual. Safety first.
andypanda, I agree with your comment about manuals. I would go with the original owner manuals. The Yotatech link above doesn't match the owner manuals for a 2018 4Runner or a 2013 Tundra. It may well match the service manual.
bi0hazard
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by bi0hazard »

smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 am
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
Sweet! I just need their cell phone number(s), particularly when the flat is by the side of the interstate. You got some tough family members. Good on you.

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex.
Wisdom. Her Tahoe weighs 5700 lbs, and each of the 6 lug nuts needs to be torqued to 140 ft-lbs. So, my wife is happy to be "discriminated" in the this particular situation. But maybe I should be tougher on her :confused
rich126
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by rich126 »

Certain basic stuff is important to learn in case of an unusual circumstance. I can understand people saying they wouldn't expect someone to do it roadside, etc. but sometimes things happen and anything from a cell phone being dead, unusual weather/traffic situation, etc. may require someone to change a tire themselves or wish they knew how.

I've probably have had a half dozen flats over 30 years. In some cases I called AAA and in others I changed the tire myself. I agree that changing a tire roadside, especially on a highway can be scary and I'd probably recommend calling a tow truck instead but sitting in a car roadside isn't always safe either. I recall once leaving work, I just got on the highway and got a flat and pulled over to the right shoulder. For some reason another guy stopped and asked if he could help so I said ok. The two of us worked like a pit crew and we had the tire changed in about 2 minutes since the trucks were roaring past and you can feel the road shake as they rolled by.

And in another case, I was like another poster, I got a flat and realized that the car had no type of spare tire but only a spray can which was of no value. After getting it fixed, I went out and got a spare tire since it you are in the middle of nowhere, I'd like to be able to fix it myself.
SquirrelEater
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by SquirrelEater »

They need to know how to do it. They need to know how to jack a car. Even if someone else does it for them, how will they know the jack is being placed at the proper spot? A helpful Good Samaritan may inadvertently jack the car up by the door…. If they know what to look for they may catch on to such a problem.

If things are sticky you can use your foot on the wrench. I’ve bounced my body weight on a wrench before. Works.
Lefty loosy righty righty!

They also need to know about checking and adding: air, fluids, oils, coolants, etc.

Being ignorant of the basics can be very expensive and intimidating.

A cheap $30 portable air compressor is worth having. They are surprisingly durable. Fine for 40psi. They can achieve 80psi given enough time.

Plugs can work but very messy to touch. Super sticky. I’d rather place a spare on than plug while flat tire is on the car on
Side of road.
Last edited by SquirrelEater on Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
tibbitts
Posts: 14353
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:40 am
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex. I do understand that with larger vehicles the tires can become difficult for anyone to handle, but that would apply to a certain percentage of both men and women.
There is no way in hell I would have my wife change the tire either. I've told her to call me if something ever happens like this when she's out and about. She's absolutely fine with that and wouldn't even attempt it.
Why would she call you when she could just call road service? Why would you change a tire yourself when you could just call road service? Virtually everyone has road service, either through their auto insurance, their car warranty, or AAA or similar. In a limited number of circumstances (nice cool-but-not-cold weather, daylight, safe location, no mud/dirt, maybe I'm in a hurry, and I'm dressed for the occasion) I might put the donut on myself; otherwise I'm using my "free" road service. Now, I wouldn't say that so much about a no-start condition, where you're maybe opening yourself up to a lot of other charges, but if you have a spare tire (as we're assuming, sort of) it's pretty unlikely that "free" road service won't be "free."

When I was younger, as perhaps with the OP's kids, more than half of my driving was in locations that still today would have no cell service, and where you could go for a long time without seeing another car on the road. Maybe that was part of the motivation for the tools and parts I'd carry (plus the limited reliability of my vehicle then compared to today.) Combined with the somewhat remote places I'd go on foot, today I'd want something like inReach. The only person I know of today who travels in similar and even much more remote places has one of those devices. It's not cheap but works almost everywhere.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

bi0hazard wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 am
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
Sweet! I just need their cell phone number(s), particularly when the flat is by the side of the interstate. You got some tough family members. Good on you.

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex.
Wisdom. Her Tahoe weighs 5700 lbs, and each of the 6 lug nuts needs to be torqued to 140 ft-lbs. So, my wife is happy to be "discriminated" in the this particular situation. But maybe I should be tougher on her :confused
I still think this isn't a male/female thing, at least not in the modern era. Some percentage of men and women could change the half-ton truck tire in your example; some couldn't, and shouldn't even attempt to, due to health or other considerations. If you want to say that 72.3% of men and "only" 65.9% of women can/should... whatever, maybe somebody has some statistics. At some point as tire size grows nearly everybody calls for road service, as reflected in the percentage of OTR truck drivers you see changing a tire themselves.
squirm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by squirm »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:55 am
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:40 am
tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex. I do understand that with larger vehicles the tires can become difficult for anyone to handle, but that would apply to a certain percentage of both men and women.
There is no way in hell I would have my wife change the tire either. I've told her to call me if something ever happens like this when she's out and about. She's absolutely fine with that and wouldn't even attempt it.
Why would she call you when she could just call road service? Why would you change a tire yourself when you could just call road service? Virtually everyone has road service, either through their auto insurance, their car warranty, or AAA or similar. In a limited number of circumstances (nice cool-but-not-cold weather, daylight, safe location, no mud/dirt, maybe I'm in a hurry, and I'm dressed for the occasion) I might put the donut on myself; otherwise I'm using my "free" road service. Now, I wouldn't say that so much about a no-start condition, where you're maybe opening yourself up to a lot of other charges, but if you have a spare tire (as we're assuming, sort of) it's pretty unlikely that "free" road service won't be "free."

When I was younger, as perhaps with the OP's kids, more than half of my driving was in locations that still today would have no cell service, and where you could go for a long time without seeing another car on the road. Maybe that was part of the motivation for the tools and parts I'd carry (plus the limited reliability of my vehicle then compared to today.) Combined with the somewhat remote places I'd go on foot, today I'd want something like inReach. The only person I know of today who travels in similar and even much more remote places has one of those devices. It's not cheap but works almost everywhere.
We do have tow service but my wife would rather have me help her then some stranger. I'm completely fine with that, and I can do it much quicker. She rarely drives anywhere that doesn't have cell service and we always carpool to work. When we do go out and about I do all the driving. I also do all the car maintenance and fixing myself. I've changed many tires in my life, I don't like to do it or a simple repair on the freeway or in the middle of a ghetto, which has happened several times.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am We do have tow service but my wife would rather have me help her then some stranger. I'm completely fine with that, and I can do it much quicker. She rarely drives anywhere that doesn't have cell service and we always carpool to work. When we do go out and about I do all the driving. I also do all the car maintenance and fixing myself. I've changed many tires in my life, I don't like to do it or a simple repair on the freeway or in the middle of a ghetto, which has happened several times.
When we carpooled to work, or went anywhere else together, I was never allowed to drive. We were both terrified by the other's driving so one of us had to give in. Most of my career I worked hundreds of miles from home and/or couldn't leave work for something like changing a tire. And even when I could, having me change it vs. road service wouldn't have been worth it to either of us to lose maybe 3% of my annual leave.
squirm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by squirm »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 pm
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am We do have tow service but my wife would rather have me help her then some stranger. I'm completely fine with that, and I can do it much quicker. She rarely drives anywhere that doesn't have cell service and we always carpool to work. When we do go out and about I do all the driving. I also do all the car maintenance and fixing myself. I've changed many tires in my life, I don't like to do it or a simple repair on the freeway or in the middle of a ghetto, which has happened several times.
When we carpooled to work, or went anywhere else together, I was never allowed to drive. We were both terrified by the other's driving so one of us had to give in. Most of my career I worked hundreds of miles from home and/or couldn't leave work for something like changing a tire. And even when I could, having me change it vs. road service wouldn't have been worth it to either of us to lose maybe 3% of my annual leave.
That is very interesting.
We drive about 40,000 miles a year, I do the vast majority of that. I'm not terrified of her driving, I'd rather just deal with the nutjobs on the freeways then have my wife... she is just too sweet to see her to get upset at the nutcases out there. When she does have to drive alone to work, I always pull the car out of the garage, warm it up and make sure it has gas for her. She always appreciates that.

My kids could change a tire, so if they're with her, they could do that if I'm not around.
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:54 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 pm
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am We do have tow service but my wife would rather have me help her then some stranger. I'm completely fine with that, and I can do it much quicker. She rarely drives anywhere that doesn't have cell service and we always carpool to work. When we do go out and about I do all the driving. I also do all the car maintenance and fixing myself. I've changed many tires in my life, I don't like to do it or a simple repair on the freeway or in the middle of a ghetto, which has happened several times.
When we carpooled to work, or went anywhere else together, I was never allowed to drive. We were both terrified by the other's driving so one of us had to give in. Most of my career I worked hundreds of miles from home and/or couldn't leave work for something like changing a tire. And even when I could, having me change it vs. road service wouldn't have been worth it to either of us to lose maybe 3% of my annual leave.
That is very interesting.
We drive about 40,000 miles a year, I do the vast majority of that. I'm not terrified of her driving, I'd rather just deal with the nutjobs on the freeways then have my wife... she is just too sweet to see her to get upset at the nutcases out there. When she does have to drive alone to work, I always pull the car out of the garage, warm it up and make sure it has gas for her. She always appreciates that.

My kids could change a tire, so if they're with her, they could do that if I'm not around.
We would get nervous about different behaviors. For example, I'd get stressed over her near-bump-drafting; for her it was me driving too slow generally, and not always moving over to allow other vehicles to merge, vs. just slowing down to let them in. Admittedly the slowing-down-for-merging-vehicles thing sometimes devolves into a bit of a negotiation with the other car, and doesn't always work as smoothly as I'd like. I guess I weigh it against the possibility of something going wrong during two lane changes.

It seems like "warming up" was a thing from the pre-fuel-injection era; I haven't heard anybody mention that since until you did. I remember driving one winter without a heater core in upstate NY in the '80s - no warming up then either! It was cold driving, but also too cold outside to replace it.
squirm
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by squirm »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:54 pm
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:54 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:09 pm
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:58 am We do have tow service but my wife would rather have me help her then some stranger. I'm completely fine with that, and I can do it much quicker. She rarely drives anywhere that doesn't have cell service and we always carpool to work. When we do go out and about I do all the driving. I also do all the car maintenance and fixing myself. I've changed many tires in my life, I don't like to do it or a simple repair on the freeway or in the middle of a ghetto, which has happened several times.
When we carpooled to work, or went anywhere else together, I was never allowed to drive. We were both terrified by the other's driving so one of us had to give in. Most of my career I worked hundreds of miles from home and/or couldn't leave work for something like changing a tire. And even when I could, having me change it vs. road service wouldn't have been worth it to either of us to lose maybe 3% of my annual leave.
That is very interesting.
We drive about 40,000 miles a year, I do the vast majority of that. I'm not terrified of her driving, I'd rather just deal with the nutjobs on the freeways then have my wife... she is just too sweet to see her to get upset at the nutcases out there. When she does have to drive alone to work, I always pull the car out of the garage, warm it up and make sure it has gas for her. She always appreciates that.

My kids could change a tire, so if they're with her, they could do that if I'm not around.
We would get nervous about different behaviors. For example, I'd get stressed over her near-bump-drafting; for her it was me driving too slow generally, and not always moving over to allow other vehicles to merge, vs. just slowing down to let them in. Admittedly the slowing-down-for-merging-vehicles thing sometimes devolves into a bit of a negotiation with the other car, and doesn't always work as smoothly as I'd like. I guess I weigh it against the possibility of something going wrong during two lane changes.

It seems like "warming up" was a thing from the pre-fuel-injection era; I haven't heard anybody mention that since until you did. I remember driving one winter without a heater core in upstate NY in the '80s - no warming up then either! It was cold driving, but also too cold outside to replace it.
Yes, I used to drive a car with a blocked heater core. No heat for me.
I just had the slow down for merging issue the other day, almost ended up at a full stop!

Anyways in this sense when is cold out I'll turn the heater on and get the inside warmed up (or cooled down if it's baking).
tibbitts
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:05 pm Yes, I used to drive a car with a blocked heater core. No heat for me.
I just had the slow down for merging issue the other day, almost ended up at a full stop!

Anyways in this sense when is cold out I'll turn the heater on and get the inside warmed up (or cooled down if it's baking).
The merging thing probably depends on the the personality of the drivers; when you're very conservative and the other person is too sometimes it just doesn't work.

I'd never drive without heat again - especially since there was no way to clear the windshield without stopping and scraping it off.
smitcat
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by smitcat »

bi0hazard wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 am
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
Sweet! I just need their cell phone number(s), particularly when the flat is by the side of the interstate. You got some tough family members. Good on you.

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex.
Wisdom. Her Tahoe weighs 5700 lbs, and each of the 6 lug nuts needs to be torqued to 140 ft-lbs. So, my wife is happy to be "discriminated" in the this particular situation. But maybe I should be tougher on her :confused
FWIW - our folks here know about leverage and how that can be used by anyone.
neilpilot
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by neilpilot »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 1:54 pm
squirm wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:54 pm
When she does have to drive alone to work, I always pull the car out of the garage, warm it up and make sure it has gas for her. She always appreciates that.
It seems like "warming up" was a thing from the pre-fuel-injection era; I haven't heard anybody mention that since until you did. I remember driving one winter without a heater core in upstate NY in the '80s - no warming up then either! It was cold driving, but also too cold outside to replace it.
Now that I drive an EV there's no engine to warm up, since there's no engine. OTOH I can go to an app and switch on the EV's heat/air/defrost, and it will run it to warm or cool the car before departure.
andypanda
Posts: 689
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Location: Richmond, Virginia

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by andypanda »

Some or all of the recent 4Runners have what they call quick heat assemblies to add a little warm air to the cabin before the coolant warms up. If they don't have them they can be added.

According to the repair manual, the following conditions must be met:

Engine running (1250 rpm or more)
Temperature setting MAX HOT
Outside temperature 10°C (50°F) or less
Engine coolant temperature 73°C (163°F) - 79°C (174°F) or less
Headlight dimmer switch off
Blower switch on

Of course, if you're outside putting your spare on you will already be warm and won't need it.
Small Savanna
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Small Savanna »

Your kids may have more flats than you expect. Our youngest daughter managed to bump the curb several times in just the right way to flatten the tire. I just waited for the phone call and went to the scene to change it for her. Yes they should learn, but she wasn't interested at 17. Now that she is paying for her own car repairs, I've been coaching her on simple things like replacing a headlight bulb when the dealer wanted to charge her a ridiculous price.
bi0hazard
Posts: 239
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by bi0hazard »

smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:26 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 am
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
Sweet! I just need their cell phone number(s), particularly when the flat is by the side of the interstate. You got some tough family members. Good on you.

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex.
Wisdom. Her Tahoe weighs 5700 lbs, and each of the 6 lug nuts needs to be torqued to 140 ft-lbs. So, my wife is happy to be "discriminated" in the this particular situation. But maybe I should be tougher on her :confused
FWIW - our folks here know about leverage and how that can be used by anyone.
Our folks here know that it's safer and overall much easier to call roadside assistance (or someone who has done this a lot- like me), rather then getting hit by car @ side of the road or attempting to do a physically challenging activity they may have tried once in their life. Impressed by your leverage masters!
smitcat
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by smitcat »

bi0hazard wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:13 pm
smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 2:26 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 9:21 am
smitcat wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 7:28 am
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
Possibly my wife or daughter would stop by and change it for them.
Sweet! I just need their cell phone number(s), particularly when the flat is by the side of the interstate. You got some tough family members. Good on you.

tibbitts wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:52 pm
bi0hazard wrote: Mon Jun 14, 2021 9:39 pm There is absolutely no way I would ask/expect my daughter or wife to change a car tire. Unless one lives in remote part of the country, the reasonable answer is call for help.
I don't know that there's anything about changing a tire that justifies automatically discriminating based on sex.
Wisdom. Her Tahoe weighs 5700 lbs, and each of the 6 lug nuts needs to be torqued to 140 ft-lbs. So, my wife is happy to be "discriminated" in the this particular situation. But maybe I should be tougher on her :confused
FWIW - our folks here know about leverage and how that can be used by anyone.
Our folks here know that it's safer and overall much easier to call roadside assistance (or someone who has done this a lot- like me), rather then getting hit by car @ side of the road or attempting to do a physically challenging activity they may have tried once in their life. Impressed by your leverage masters!
Our folks are not affected by these things that are fairly easily handled.
Broken Man 1999
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Location: West coast of Florida, near Champa Bay !

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Well, after not having a flat tire for years, today DW ran over some road debris and shredded a tire.

AAA changed it for us, I'll have to buy a new tire tomorrow. Fortunately the tire place has them in stock, so we won't have to wait for them to get one. I have used fleet tires on the van once the first set wore out.

I guess I shouldn't have read this thread! Brought me bad luck! :oops:

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
IMO
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Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by IMO »

Well changing a tire is hardly rocket science. Seems reasonable that aside from someone with a health limitation, anyone regardless of which sex they are so long as they can physically pick up a spare tire can learn to change a tire. So why shouldn't they learn the basic life skill?

When it comes to personal safety, it can obviously be best to call via AAA or similar service and have someone actually change your tire for you. The simple ability to have their vehicle parked behind yours as a barrier or visual marker MAY prevent a driver not paying attention plowing into you. Obviously, it's better to have the tow truck driver get killed than yourself.

Where it can come in handy is when one is taking a long road trip where services may be hours away or one doesn't have cell reception. I can't imagine someone who's driven a desolated road trip to not think having that basic skill would be helpful? Maybe someone who never leaves the city would think it's not a worthwhile skill?

As other's have mentioned, I'd rather have my spouse or daughter be able to change their own tire than have to rely on some stranger to stop in the middle of nowhere to provide them assistance. That situation just seems more risky, especially for females in society.

The related concern is do you even have a spare tire? If one has to drive a flat tire to a safe area off a highway/road, odds are the sidewall will be significantly destroyed and one's fix a flat type of products won't work.
neilpilot
Posts: 3836
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Location: Memphis area

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by neilpilot »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 5:14 pm Well, after not having a flat tire for years, today DW ran over some road debris and shredded a tire.

AAA changed it for us, I'll have to buy a new tire tomorrow. Fortunately the tire place has them in stock, so we won't have to wait for them to get one. I have used fleet tires on the van once the first set wore out.

I guess I shouldn't have read this thread! Brought me bad luck! :oops:

Broken Man 1999
I do think this thread is a jinx!

While I've had a few slow leakers in the past, I can't remember the last time I had to change a flat. It's at least 25 years ago, until today. Had a blowout on a 1-1/2 year old tire with about 13k miles on it. I wasn't in the car, but my wife who was driving on the interstate doesn't think they hit anything. The sidewall is destroyed. This car came with no jack or spare, but luckily I had added a scissor jack and a donut spare I bought on eBay.

My stepson changed the tire, and tomorrow I try to get a replacement. What's amazing is that this is the first set of tires that I recall buying with a road-hazard warranty. Hope that works.
dukeblue219
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Joined: Fri Jan 29, 2016 12:40 pm

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by dukeblue219 »

On the subject of FixAFlat ruining the inside of the tire, when was the last time anyone had a tire repaired instead of replaced anyway? Do any major service chains even offer that anymore? It doesn't seem like it to me.
finite_difference
Posts: 2667
Joined: Thu Jul 09, 2015 7:00 pm

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by finite_difference »

Devil's Advocate wrote: Sun Jun 13, 2021 10:30 am What about run flat tires?

DA
Run flat tires are expensive and suck.

My advice:

1. Carry a high-quality cross lug wrench for getting off tight lug nuts.
2. Carry a full-sized spare.
3. Carry an emergency roadside kit.
4. Carry AAA.
The most precious gift we can offer anyone is our attention. - Thich Nhat Hanh
tibbitts
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: Tire flat fixing for beginners

Post by tibbitts »

dukeblue219 wrote: Sun Jun 20, 2021 8:00 pm On the subject of FixAFlat ruining the inside of the tire, when was the last time anyone had a tire repaired instead of replaced anyway? Do any major service chains even offer that anymore? It doesn't seem like it to me.
Tires are still repaired all the time due to punctures. Punctures are extremely common. The puncture has to meet certain requirements (not near edge of tread, etc.) All tire service facilities offer patching.

I'm especially familiar with this since thousands of homes in my area are all having their roofs replaced now due to a storm, so puncture frequency has increased.
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