I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

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wfrobinette
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by wfrobinette »

Kittens wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 12:23 pm for example this is what I have found so far

2021 Toyota Camry - this generation has had a huge recall on 8 speed transmissions due to jerkiness and delays
2021 Mazda 6 - Direct injection so prone to carbon build up, and cylinder deactivation. I can step up to the turbo version to avoid the cylinder deactivation and it's quick but it comes with these huge 19 inch wheels that I am worrying about breaking on rough roads
2021 Hyundai Sonata - Direct injection, and also I've heard older versions of this engine were horrible (not sure if fixed now)

does anyone have any recommendations for me to look into? I want to keep this as long as possible.

am I overblowing this and should just pick a car? I know I would have a warranty but am having a lot of anxiety over this because it seems I can't find any car that does not have lots of potential issues.
I have 2 mazda cx-5's and a camry in the driveway. All great reliable cars.
wfrobinette
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by wfrobinette »

inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm
MMiroir wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:02 am
finite_difference wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:33 pm I wouldn’t worry too much about reliability if you’re buying an ICE car.

1. ICE cars have all become very reliable.
2. ICE technology is a dead end and will be obsolete soon by BEV. So even if you have a reliable ICE car, by the time you’re ready to sell I think the market for them will be pretty depressed. Assuming you keep the car for about 10 years.
If they ever phase out production of ICE cars, expect their value to remain high as people will seek out used models. EVs work for some people, but not for everyone.
Well, in 10 years, that's 2031. Honda has 2040 no gas goal, so presumably will still be selling gas vehicles for another decade. Ford may be longer (trucks?). Of course things might change. YMMV

GM — all-electric by 2035
Volvo — all-electric by 2030
Uber — zero emissions by 2040
Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040
Jaguar — all-electric by 2025
Ford — carbon neutral by 2050
USPS — fuel-efficient or electric vehicles by 2023
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-comp ... rgy-pledge

California Bans Sale of Gas-Powered Cars by 2035, Prioritizing EVs Statewide
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/california-bans-gas-cars

Anyway, the demand is going to decrease, but so will the supply, so pricing changes should be somewhat gradual, and I don't think there's going to be a cliff. Maybe a step along the way. And there might be a period where people keep an extra gas car longer for road trips and electric for local.
Then another 20 years to cycle out the gas cars maybe even longer. The last gas powered GM or CA sold car will still be on the road in 2055.

Back in 2010 when i worked for Advance auto parts the average age of the cars registered in the US was 15.6 yo
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MortgageOnBlack
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by MortgageOnBlack »

Sadly, this is the exact same reason why I continue to drive my 91 civic
alfaspider
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by alfaspider »

MortgageOnBlack wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 2:12 pm Sadly, this is the exact same reason why I continue to drive my 91 civic
Although a 91 civic was about as reliable as they came back in the day, almost any new car sold today (short of something silly like Range Rover) should be more reliable than those old cars. Main thing with an old civic is they are dirt cheap to keep running because parts are a dime a dozen.
alfaspider
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by alfaspider »

wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:26 pm
inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm
MMiroir wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:02 am
finite_difference wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:33 pm I wouldn’t worry too much about reliability if you’re buying an ICE car.

1. ICE cars have all become very reliable.
2. ICE technology is a dead end and will be obsolete soon by BEV. So even if you have a reliable ICE car, by the time you’re ready to sell I think the market for them will be pretty depressed. Assuming you keep the car for about 10 years.
If they ever phase out production of ICE cars, expect their value to remain high as people will seek out used models. EVs work for some people, but not for everyone.
Well, in 10 years, that's 2031. Honda has 2040 no gas goal, so presumably will still be selling gas vehicles for another decade. Ford may be longer (trucks?). Of course things might change. YMMV

GM — all-electric by 2035
Volvo — all-electric by 2030
Uber — zero emissions by 2040
Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040
Jaguar — all-electric by 2025
Ford — carbon neutral by 2050
USPS — fuel-efficient or electric vehicles by 2023
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-comp ... rgy-pledge

California Bans Sale of Gas-Powered Cars by 2035, Prioritizing EVs Statewide
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/california-bans-gas-cars

Anyway, the demand is going to decrease, but so will the supply, so pricing changes should be somewhat gradual, and I don't think there's going to be a cliff. Maybe a step along the way. And there might be a period where people keep an extra gas car longer for road trips and electric for local.
Then another 20 years to cycle out the gas cars maybe even longer. The last gas powered GM or CA sold car will still be on the road in 2055.

Back in 2010 when i worked for Advance auto parts the average age of the cars registered in the US was 15.6 yo
I think by mid 2030s, new gas cars are going to be a niche vehicle. Economics could cause turnover to accelerate notwithstanding government mandates or automaker pledges. By then, an EV is going to be considerably cheaper than the equivalent gas vehicle. And road tips will become less and less of a concern as the fast charging network continues to grow.

I also think there could be a strong social dynamic that accelerates the demise of gas cars. Right now, it's tough to own an EV if you are not in a single family house. The public charging network isn't great. But as EVs take hold, luxury apartment complexes will start including charging as a standard amenity (some have already). White collar workplaces may also increasingly offer charging. The last holdouts for convenient charging are going to be low-rent multifamily housing. As most new vehicles bought are EV, the last drivers of gas cars are going to be the poor, who don't have easy charging access, have to drive the older/cheap vehicles and who don't have access to cheap financing. As driving a gas powered car starts to become associated with poverty, people won't want to be seen driving a gas car, and gas stations will leave all but low-rent neighborhoods. In 10 years, I think you may very well see middle class and richer folks abandon perfectly good cars to avoid the stigma of driving a gas powered vehicle.
wfrobinette
Posts: 1488
Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by wfrobinette »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:20 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:26 pm
inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm
MMiroir wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:02 am
finite_difference wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 4:33 pm I wouldn’t worry too much about reliability if you’re buying an ICE car.

1. ICE cars have all become very reliable.
2. ICE technology is a dead end and will be obsolete soon by BEV. So even if you have a reliable ICE car, by the time you’re ready to sell I think the market for them will be pretty depressed. Assuming you keep the car for about 10 years.
If they ever phase out production of ICE cars, expect their value to remain high as people will seek out used models. EVs work for some people, but not for everyone.
Well, in 10 years, that's 2031. Honda has 2040 no gas goal, so presumably will still be selling gas vehicles for another decade. Ford may be longer (trucks?). Of course things might change. YMMV

GM — all-electric by 2035
Volvo — all-electric by 2030
Uber — zero emissions by 2040
Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040
Jaguar — all-electric by 2025
Ford — carbon neutral by 2050
USPS — fuel-efficient or electric vehicles by 2023
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-comp ... rgy-pledge

California Bans Sale of Gas-Powered Cars by 2035, Prioritizing EVs Statewide
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/california-bans-gas-cars

Anyway, the demand is going to decrease, but so will the supply, so pricing changes should be somewhat gradual, and I don't think there's going to be a cliff. Maybe a step along the way. And there might be a period where people keep an extra gas car longer for road trips and electric for local.
Then another 20 years to cycle out the gas cars maybe even longer. The last gas powered GM or CA sold car will still be on the road in 2055.

Back in 2010 when i worked for Advance auto parts the average age of the cars registered in the US was 15.6 yo
I think by mid 2030s, new gas cars are going to be a niche vehicle. Economics could cause turnover to accelerate notwithstanding government mandates or automaker pledges. By then, an EV is going to be considerably cheaper than the equivalent gas vehicle. And road tips will become less and less of a concern as the fast charging network continues to grow.

I also think there could be a strong social dynamic that accelerates the demise of gas cars. Right now, it's tough to own an EV if you are not in a single family house. The public charging network isn't great. But as EVs take hold, luxury apartment complexes will start including charging as a standard amenity (some have already). White collar workplaces may also increasingly offer charging. The last holdouts for convenient charging are going to be low-rent multifamily housing. As most new vehicles bought are EV, the last drivers of gas cars are going to be the poor, who don't have easy charging access, have to drive the older/cheap vehicles and who don't have access to cheap financing. As driving a gas powered car starts to become associated with poverty, people won't want to be seen driving a gas car, and gas stations will leave all but low-rent neighborhoods. In 10 years, I think you may very well see middle class and richer folks abandon perfectly good cars to avoid the stigma of driving a gas powered vehicle.
I agree 99.9% here. You are spot on with who the stragglers would be. The rural areas are going to be a concern as well.

You may be right on the stigma part. Hopefully it starts with the gas guzzling V8's in large SUVs and anything diesel. Then the V6 and then to the I4

I have purchased 3 gas vehicles since dec 2019. The major reason I didn't even entertain electric was range and cost. All 3 are 4 cyl and get very good gas mileage. I'd have loved to be in an EV now but 51k for a model 3 was too much for what I wanted to spend. In fact I got 2 cars for that price.
alfaspider
Posts: 3692
Joined: Wed Sep 09, 2015 4:44 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by alfaspider »

wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:57 pm
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:20 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:26 pm
inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm
MMiroir wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:02 am

If they ever phase out production of ICE cars, expect their value to remain high as people will seek out used models. EVs work for some people, but not for everyone.
Well, in 10 years, that's 2031. Honda has 2040 no gas goal, so presumably will still be selling gas vehicles for another decade. Ford may be longer (trucks?). Of course things might change. YMMV

GM — all-electric by 2035
Volvo — all-electric by 2030
Uber — zero emissions by 2040
Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040
Jaguar — all-electric by 2025
Ford — carbon neutral by 2050
USPS — fuel-efficient or electric vehicles by 2023
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-comp ... rgy-pledge

California Bans Sale of Gas-Powered Cars by 2035, Prioritizing EVs Statewide
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/california-bans-gas-cars

Anyway, the demand is going to decrease, but so will the supply, so pricing changes should be somewhat gradual, and I don't think there's going to be a cliff. Maybe a step along the way. And there might be a period where people keep an extra gas car longer for road trips and electric for local.
Then another 20 years to cycle out the gas cars maybe even longer. The last gas powered GM or CA sold car will still be on the road in 2055.

Back in 2010 when i worked for Advance auto parts the average age of the cars registered in the US was 15.6 yo
I think by mid 2030s, new gas cars are going to be a niche vehicle. Economics could cause turnover to accelerate notwithstanding government mandates or automaker pledges. By then, an EV is going to be considerably cheaper than the equivalent gas vehicle. And road tips will become less and less of a concern as the fast charging network continues to grow.

I also think there could be a strong social dynamic that accelerates the demise of gas cars. Right now, it's tough to own an EV if you are not in a single family house. The public charging network isn't great. But as EVs take hold, luxury apartment complexes will start including charging as a standard amenity (some have already). White collar workplaces may also increasingly offer charging. The last holdouts for convenient charging are going to be low-rent multifamily housing. As most new vehicles bought are EV, the last drivers of gas cars are going to be the poor, who don't have easy charging access, have to drive the older/cheap vehicles and who don't have access to cheap financing. As driving a gas powered car starts to become associated with poverty, people won't want to be seen driving a gas car, and gas stations will leave all but low-rent neighborhoods. In 10 years, I think you may very well see middle class and richer folks abandon perfectly good cars to avoid the stigma of driving a gas powered vehicle.
I agree 99.9% here. You are spot on with who the stragglers would be. The rural areas are going to be a concern as well.

You may be right on the stigma part. Hopefully it starts with the gas guzzling V8's in large SUVs and anything diesel. Then the V6 and then to the I4

I have purchased 3 gas vehicles since dec 2019. The major reason I didn't even entertain electric was range and cost. All 3 are 4 cyl and get very good gas mileage. I'd have loved to be in an EV now but 51k for a model 3 was too much for what I wanted to spend. In fact I got 2 cars for that price.
I think you were cross shopping very different segments. The Model 3 is supposed to compete in the entry level luxury space, such as the BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class. A mid spec example of those will be in that $50k range. But you can get a Chevy Bolt for under $25k.
tibbitts
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by tibbitts »

Frugal Al wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 11:16 am
tibbitts wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 9:22 pm The Camry has CVT in all Hybrids as far as I know. The last I checked I thought all 1.5L Accords were CVTs.
The Toyota e-CVT in the Hybrid is a very different animal than a CVT in an ICE only vehicle--much more reliable since they do not use pulley chain/belt systems, but rather a motor-generator/planetary gearset system.
I didn't know that. I simply had an instinctive adverse reaction to the term CVT. Somebody needs to come up with another name for CVTs in a hybrid, apparently.
tibbitts
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Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 6:50 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by tibbitts »

sport wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 3:20 pm
tibbitts wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 2:30 pm
fishmonger wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 5:47 am
sport wrote: Thu Apr 22, 2021 1:10 pm Buy a Honda Accord or a Toyota Camry, whichever you like better.
+1. When looking in this product segment, you are talking about two models with a track record spanning decades of reliability
But that can only be extrapolated to models being produced today to the extent that they share components with those older models. You have to be careful about relying too heavily on reputations; they have a tendency to outlive their applicability.
Reputations are are attributable, to a large extent, by the attitudes and policies of management and employees. This is sometimes called the "company culture". This can last longer than the use of particular reliable components. I bought Toyotas in 1981, 1986, 1993, 1996, 2002, 2005, 2010, and 2013. The quality and reliability was/has been excellent in each case. I still own the 2010 and 2013.
Conveniently (but not exactly cleverly), I seem to have proven myself correct. My instinctive adverse reaction to "CVT" without, apparently, being aware of how the technology has changed, would appear to prove that a reputation can outlast its usefulness.
wfrobinette
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Joined: Fri Feb 20, 2015 3:14 pm

Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by wfrobinette »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 4:01 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:57 pm
alfaspider wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:20 pm
wfrobinette wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 1:26 pm
inbox788 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 12:15 pm
Well, in 10 years, that's 2031. Honda has 2040 no gas goal, so presumably will still be selling gas vehicles for another decade. Ford may be longer (trucks?). Of course things might change. YMMV

GM — all-electric by 2035
Volvo — all-electric by 2030
Uber — zero emissions by 2040
Fedex — carbon neutral by 2040
Jaguar — all-electric by 2025
Ford — carbon neutral by 2050
USPS — fuel-efficient or electric vehicles by 2023
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/car-comp ... rgy-pledge

California Bans Sale of Gas-Powered Cars by 2035, Prioritizing EVs Statewide
https://www.greenmatters.com/p/california-bans-gas-cars

Anyway, the demand is going to decrease, but so will the supply, so pricing changes should be somewhat gradual, and I don't think there's going to be a cliff. Maybe a step along the way. And there might be a period where people keep an extra gas car longer for road trips and electric for local.
Then another 20 years to cycle out the gas cars maybe even longer. The last gas powered GM or CA sold car will still be on the road in 2055.

Back in 2010 when i worked for Advance auto parts the average age of the cars registered in the US was 15.6 yo
I think by mid 2030s, new gas cars are going to be a niche vehicle. Economics could cause turnover to accelerate notwithstanding government mandates or automaker pledges. By then, an EV is going to be considerably cheaper than the equivalent gas vehicle. And road tips will become less and less of a concern as the fast charging network continues to grow.

I also think there could be a strong social dynamic that accelerates the demise of gas cars. Right now, it's tough to own an EV if you are not in a single family house. The public charging network isn't great. But as EVs take hold, luxury apartment complexes will start including charging as a standard amenity (some have already). White collar workplaces may also increasingly offer charging. The last holdouts for convenient charging are going to be low-rent multifamily housing. As most new vehicles bought are EV, the last drivers of gas cars are going to be the poor, who don't have easy charging access, have to drive the older/cheap vehicles and who don't have access to cheap financing. As driving a gas powered car starts to become associated with poverty, people won't want to be seen driving a gas car, and gas stations will leave all but low-rent neighborhoods. In 10 years, I think you may very well see middle class and richer folks abandon perfectly good cars to avoid the stigma of driving a gas powered vehicle.
I agree 99.9% here. You are spot on with who the stragglers would be. The rural areas are going to be a concern as well.

You may be right on the stigma part. Hopefully it starts with the gas guzzling V8's in large SUVs and anything diesel. Then the V6 and then to the I4

I have purchased 3 gas vehicles since dec 2019. The major reason I didn't even entertain electric was range and cost. All 3 are 4 cyl and get very good gas mileage. I'd have loved to be in an EV now but 51k for a model 3 was too much for what I wanted to spend. In fact I got 2 cars for that price.
I think you were cross shopping very different segments. The Model 3 is supposed to compete in the entry level luxury space, such as the BMW 3 series or Mercedes C class. A mid spec example of those will be in that $50k range. But you can get a Chevy Bolt for under $25k.
No I was shopping a mid-size 4 door sedan and 2 small crossovers. I ended up with the Camry(2019) and 2 Cx-5s (2019 and 2021). The bolt is a much smaller vehicle than the CX-5. I also have a strict rule of never buying the first model year of any new platform after some experiences with the 2017 Q7.
iamlucky13
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by iamlucky13 »

alfaspider wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 3:20 pm The last holdouts for convenient charging are going to be low-rent multifamily housing. As most new vehicles bought are EV, the last drivers of gas cars are going to be the poor, who don't have easy charging access, have to drive the older/cheap vehicles and who don't have access to cheap financing.
They will get chargers sometime between decades from now and never.

Low, and in some areas even mid-price apartments seldom even have enough parking for their residents. They won't be eager to undertake the expense of running power to each parking stall, and even if they do, for some residents it will be more favorable to use an ICE car than compete for charging access.

In some cities a quietly simmering controversy is city governments giving even some high price apartment developers waivers to parking capacity requirements. The claim is this is done to encourage transit-oriented development, but the real result is developers save money, and residents bring their cars with them anyways, overwhelming the available street parking. Those residents will also have to compete for charging access or stay ICE.
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meowcat
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by meowcat »

Camry or Accord. Hands down. I'll admit up front, I am biased toward the Honda. It still boggles my mind that anyone can test drive a Camry and an Accord, and then pick the Camry! What? Wow! The Accord is every bit as reliable as the Camry but the Accord drives, oh, so much better.
I don't eat ramen noodles because I'm poor. No, I'm rich because I eat ramen noodles. | -moewcat
alfaspider
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by alfaspider »

meowcat wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:31 pm Camry or Accord. Hands down. I'll admit up front, I am biased toward the Honda. It still boggles my mind that anyone can test drive a Camry and an Accord, and then pick the Camry! What? Wow! The Accord is every bit as reliable as the Camry but the Accord drives, oh, so much better.
Some people just don't care how their car drives. Honestly, neither would so much generate a blip on my blood pressure, so even though I'm very much into driving dynamics, I'm not sure I'd choose between them on that basis.
MMiroir
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Re: I'm having analysis paralysis on a new car. I am looking for common reliable cars, but each one has potential issues

Post by MMiroir »

alfaspider wrote: Mon May 10, 2021 10:15 am
meowcat wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 1:31 pm Camry or Accord. Hands down. I'll admit up front, I am biased toward the Honda. It still boggles my mind that anyone can test drive a Camry and an Accord, and then pick the Camry! What? Wow! The Accord is every bit as reliable as the Camry but the Accord drives, oh, so much better.
Some people just don't care how their car drives. Honestly, neither would so much generate a blip on my blood pressure, so even though I'm very much into driving dynamics, I'm not sure I'd choose between them on that basis.
Historically, Hondas have always had better driving dynamics than equivalent Toyota's, but the margin has shrunk as each successive model has gotten more homogenized. Today, Mazda probably has the best driving dynamics among the Asians, but they trial in terms of long term reliability.

I do agree that the vast majority of car buyers don't care about driving dynamics. They just want inexpensive, reliable transit with minimal depreciation. In many cases, they may actively dislike the better handling/more dynamic vehicle.
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