U.S. stocks in free fall

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Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

anoop wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 am Don't forget to buy the dip.

I'm just holding though.
I'm just gonna hold off a little longer till the Shiller PE Ratio reverts back to its mean at 16.81. :wink:
thenextguy
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by thenextguy »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:44 am As far as I can tell, SPX selloff is driven by Germany DAX plunging 2.3%. I don't know the reason there though.
Yeah, International is getting crushed even worse than US.
Keenobserver
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Keenobserver »

I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.
newyorker
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by newyorker »

Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
newyorker
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by newyorker »

Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:13 am
anoop wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 am Don't forget to buy the dip.

I'm just holding though.
I'm just gonna hold off a little longer till the Shiller PE Ratio reverts back to its mean at 16.81. :wink:

Sarcasm right? Lol
Keenobserver
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Keenobserver »

newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
Thanks. Holding out so far. So glad i rotated out of clean energy and EV into index funds a few months back. Made my life a lot less complicated. Just buy and the market and be done.
Marseille07
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
You stopped your 2k/day DCA already??
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Stef
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Stef »

Sell in May and go away?
Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

thenextguy wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:44 am As far as I can tell, SPX selloff is driven by Germany DAX plunging 2.3%. I don't know the reason there though.
Yeah, International is getting crushed even worse than US.
Strengthening of the US dollar probably isn't helping. UUP ETF is +0.41%.
newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:24 am
Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:13 am
anoop wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 am Don't forget to buy the dip.

I'm just holding though.
I'm just gonna hold off a little longer till the Shiller PE Ratio reverts back to its mean at 16.81. :wink:
Sarcasm right? Lol
Heavy sarcasm, yes.
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abuss368
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by abuss368 »

I am backing up the truck this week!

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
foamypirate
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by foamypirate »

Whoa, for once it looks like my 401K contribution will go in on a down day! Woo hoo! :beer
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cos
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by cos »

I got really lucky with the timing this week. I sold a big chunk of UPRO yesterday to pay some bills, and I bought back in today with some new income. Here's hoping things spring right back up! :beer
Marseille07
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:45 am I got really lucky with the timing this week. I sold a big chunk of UPRO yesterday to pay some bills, and I bought back in today with some new income. Here's hoping things spring right back up! :beer
I don't want to sound like a heckler but I think you're living on the edge if you had to sell a big chunk of UPRO to pay your bills.
Ajcorpus
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Ajcorpus »

NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
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HomerJ
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by HomerJ »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:47 am
cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:45 am I got really lucky with the timing this week. I sold a big chunk of UPRO yesterday to pay some bills, and I bought back in today with some new income. Here's hoping things spring right back up! :beer
I don't want to sound like a heckler but I think you're living on the edge if you had to sell a big chunk of UPRO to pay your bills.
Especially if new income showed up the very next day. Did you not know the new income was coming?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Williams57
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Williams57 »

Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.
I sold some crypto and bought some ETFs this morning. It was time to rebalance anyway.
newyorker
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by newyorker »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am
newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
You stopped your 2k/day DCA already??

Nope thats still going on. Actually 2.4k/day now. I meant nothing as in making no change to current plan.
Marseille07
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:05 am
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am
newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
You stopped your 2k/day DCA already??

Nope thats still going on. Actually 2.4k/day now. I meant nothing as in making no change to current plan.
:beer let's do it. I'm doing something similar.
gokuisthebest
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by gokuisthebest »

anoop wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 9:49 am Don't forget to buy the dip.

I'm just holding though.
i already bought on last friday and have no money left. what a bad timing :(
UpperNwGuy
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by UpperNwGuy »

abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:40 am I am backing up the truck this week!
Are you going to load that truck with US or international? International is on an even deeper discount.
newyorker
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by newyorker »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:07 am
newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:05 am
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:28 am
newyorker wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:23 am
Keenobserver wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:19 am I m kind of frozen right now, not sure what to do. Does that mean do nothing? I have Apple maybe get some more, or just put more into index and be done ? Or maybe sell some crypto, take peofits and put in index fund? Maybe just do nothinf. Decisions, decisions.

From my experience, doing nothing was likely the best choice.
You stopped your 2k/day DCA already??

Nope thats still going on. Actually 2.4k/day now. I meant nothing as in making no change to current plan.
:beer let's do it. I'm doing something similar.


Its quite scary but I remind myself that I cant be a chicken anymore.
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Yesterdaysnews
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Yesterdaysnews »

Stocks fluctuate, that’s what they do…. I’m doing nothing.
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cos
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by cos »

HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:55 am
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:47 am
cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:45 am I got really lucky with the timing this week. I sold a big chunk of UPRO yesterday to pay some bills, and I bought back in today with some new income. Here's hoping things spring right back up! :beer
I don't want to sound like a heckler but I think you're living on the edge if you had to sell a big chunk of UPRO to pay your bills.
Especially if new income showed up the very next day. Did you not know the new income was coming?
Everything was handled automatically! I gathered all of this from notifications that popped up on my phone, informing me after the fact. A debit hit my account yesterday, and a credit hit today. The automation I've set up handled all of the buying and selling on my behalf.

Honestly, aside from the rebalancing and budgeting I do every quarter, I generally don't know what's going on with my accounts. I've set up a system I can trust so I can spend more time focusing on the rest of my life, and it's worked out pretty darn well going on two years now.
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abuss368
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by abuss368 »

Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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HomerJ
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by HomerJ »

cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:47 am
HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:55 am
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:47 am
cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:45 am I got really lucky with the timing this week. I sold a big chunk of UPRO yesterday to pay some bills, and I bought back in today with some new income. Here's hoping things spring right back up! :beer
I don't want to sound like a heckler but I think you're living on the edge if you had to sell a big chunk of UPRO to pay your bills.
Especially if new income showed up the very next day. Did you not know the new income was coming?
Everything was handled automatically! I gathered all of this from notifications that popped up on my phone, informing me after the fact. A debit hit my account yesterday, and a credit hit today. The automation I've set up handled all of the buying and selling on my behalf.

Honestly, aside from the rebalancing and budgeting I do every quarter, I generally don't know what's going on with my accounts. I've set up a system I can trust so I can spend more time focusing on the rest of my life, and it's worked out pretty darn well going on two years now.
Hmm... okay...

I don't think that using triple-leveraged stock money to pay bills is very good system, but I guess if you're happy with it. Any tax considerations at all?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
Visitor76
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Visitor76 »

Stef wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:34 am Sell in May and go away?
More like buy in May and ride the returns. Remember when others are fearful...
Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.
Visitor76
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Visitor76 »

abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.
rockstar
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by rockstar »

Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
Or they're selling because of fear of tax. Lots of different narratives going on to push the valuations down short term.
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Stinky
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Stinky »

Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
That might perhaps explain why tech is leading the freakout. But, if interest rates might rise, why is the 10yr Treasury down?
rockstar
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by rockstar »

Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
That might perhaps explain why tech is leading the freakout. But, if interest rates might rise, why is the 10yr Treasury down?
Buying treasuries will raise their price and push down their yield.
Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

rockstar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:29 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am
Ajcorpus wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 am NASDAQ down 2.5%?! What gives. I thought tech crushed earnings last two weeks.
International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
That might perhaps explain why tech is leading the freakout. But, if interest rates might rise, why is the 10yr Treasury down?
Buying treasuries will raise their price and push down their yield.
Right now, if you want fixed income to give you any yield, you are forced to buy longer term debt, but if money markets might actually yield something, I would have thought this would make the low rates on long term treasuries less appealng, which would cause a sell off. But obviously this is not happening. Like you say, people are buying these longer term treasuries.
rockstar
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by rockstar »

Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:39 pm
rockstar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:29 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
abuss368 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 11:50 am

International down more than US! Run!

Tony
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
That might perhaps explain why tech is leading the freakout. But, if interest rates might rise, why is the 10yr Treasury down?
Buying treasuries will raise their price and push down their yield.
Right now, if you want fixed income to give you any yield, you are forced to buy longer term debt, but if money markets might actually yield something, I would have thought this would make the low rates on long term treasuries less appealng, which would cause a sell off. But obviously this is not happening. Like you say, people are buying these longer term treasuries.
The ten year is closely related to the equity markets. Usually folks sell equities and buy the ten year.
Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

rockstar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:48 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:39 pm
rockstar wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:29 pm
Robot Monster wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm

The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
That might perhaps explain why tech is leading the freakout. But, if interest rates might rise, why is the 10yr Treasury down?
Buying treasuries will raise their price and push down their yield.
Right now, if you want fixed income to give you any yield, you are forced to buy longer term debt, but if money markets might actually yield something, I would have thought this would make the low rates on long term treasuries less appealng, which would cause a sell off. But obviously this is not happening. Like you say, people are buying these longer term treasuries.
The ten year is closely related to the equity markets. Usually folks sell equities and buy the ten year.
That would explain it! Thanks.

I'm finding this whole Yellen thing a little hard to believe. Seems like just yesterday Powell wasn't even thinking about thinking about tightening, that any inflation we see is just transitory, that the easy money is just gonna keep coming, and the Fed is the market's best friend forever.
Robot Monster
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Robot Monster »

Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
The Bloomberg article, "Yellen Says Spending May Spur ‘Modest’ Interest-Rate Rises" raises the possibility people are taking what Yellen said all wrong:

“I don’t think she was making a statement about monetary policy,” said Roberto Perli, a former Fed economist who’s now at Cornerstone Macro LLC. “I’m inclined to read it in terms of longer-term rates -- in which case it’s a fairly innocuous statement.”
link
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by lazynovice »

Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
pmr2017
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by pmr2017 »

It seems like on a day like today, you really can get the sense that a sizable amount of investors are impatient and/or have unrealistic expectations for their investment returns. Apple trades sideways for a few months and people lose their minds.
Williams57
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Williams57 »

lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm
Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by lazynovice »

Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm
Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by oldzey »

"Find a comfortable place to sit. Breathe in... and out."

A Guided Meditation for When the Stock Market Is Dropping - by JL Collins
"The broker said the stock was 'poised to move.' Silly me, I thought he meant up." ― Randy Thurman
Visitor76
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Visitor76 »

lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm
Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm
Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
It looks like a good old case of European stocks following the US market like little ducks. Glad I sold my position in International a couple months ago.

https://www.forexlive.com/technical-ana ... r-20210504
Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.
Marseille07
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:48 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm
Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm
Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm

But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
It looks like a good old case of European stocks following the US market like little ducks. Glad I sold my position in International a couple months ago.
??? Today Germany DAX crashed 2.3% and S&P500 & NASDAQ are following later.
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cos
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Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by cos »

HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm Hmm... okay...

I don't think that using triple-leveraged stock money to pay bills is very good system, but I guess if you're happy with it. Any tax considerations at all?
Do you have a particular reason in mind for why it might be a bad system, or is it more of a gut feeling?

And unfortunately, yes. While buys and sells are infrequent enough that transaction costs remain negligible, they're still frequent enough that I end up with a lot of wash sales come tax time. I've attempted to resolve the problem by buffering my accounts with a bit of margin, but since the securities themselves are already significantly leveraged, that margin buffer is necessarily thin and quickly expended.

I'm not too worried, though. Claiming those losses wouldn't have helped me all that much anyway, and by the time that they are worth worrying about, my accounts will have grown enough that the margin buffer substantially exceeds my expenses.

As for other tax-related issues, the automation I'm using is very good at prioritizing tax lots so when I do realize gains, they're taxed pretty favorably, and besides, I'd rather pay taxes on gains than have nothing to pay taxes on in the first place.
Visitor76
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:08 am

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Visitor76 »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:50 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:48 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm
Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm

And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
It looks like a good old case of European stocks following the US market like little ducks. Glad I sold my position in International a couple months ago.
??? Today Germany DAX crashed 2.3% and S&P500 & NASDAQ are following later.
If you look at the below chart under Europe, it appears the DAX took a dive after 12pm ET US.

https://www.marketwatch.com/
Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:55 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:50 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:48 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm
Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm

On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
It looks like a good old case of European stocks following the US market like little ducks. Glad I sold my position in International a couple months ago.
??? Today Germany DAX crashed 2.3% and S&P500 & NASDAQ are following later.
If you look at the below chart under Europe, it appears the DAX took a dive after 12pm ET US.

https://www.marketwatch.com/
I think that's in CET, not ET US...it's already past 4 pm on that chart.
DB2
Posts: 1396
Joined: Thu Jan 17, 2019 9:07 pm

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by DB2 »

Williams57 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:33 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:29 pm
Stinky wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:27 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:20 pm
The market is freaking out over Yellen's comments on their need to raise interest rates to prevent the economy from "overheating".
But wait - Yellen is now Treasury secretary. Seems to me that the Fed (that is, Jay Powell) would be the one making the statement if that were in the cards.

One thing for sure - the market sure is skittish!
And I’d guess both Yellen and Powell both have only indirect impact on International. Have not seen an explanation for sell off in International yet.
On International - slower than expected Covid recovery?
My speculation on International sell-off; potential (likelihood) of raising rates which could strengthen the dollar (negative for international) - International got hit harder in the 2018 sell-off as a result of higher interest rates. In addition, slower Covid recovery/fewer vaccinations internationally. U.S. value stocks hanging in there today so far.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:54 pm
HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm Hmm... okay...

I don't think that using triple-leveraged stock money to pay bills is very good system, but I guess if you're happy with it. Any tax considerations at all?
Do you have a particular reason in mind for why it might be a bad system, or is it more of a gut feeling?

And unfortunately, yes. While buys and sells are infrequent enough that transaction costs remain negligible, they're still frequent enough that I end up with a lot of wash sales come tax time. I've attempted to resolve the problem by buffering my accounts with a bit of margin, but since the securities themselves are already significantly leveraged, that margin buffer is necessarily thin and quickly expended.

I'm not too worried, though. Claiming those losses wouldn't have helped me all that much anyway, and by the time that they are worth worrying about, my accounts will have grown enough that the margin buffer substantially exceeds my expenses.

As for other tax-related issues, the automation I'm using is very good at prioritizing tax lots so when I do realize gains, they're taxed pretty favorably, and besides, I'd rather pay taxes on gains than have nothing to pay taxes on in the first place.
You do you, but I'd be concerned if I were slashing equities to pay bills. You mentioned quarterly rebalancing, which seems to imply you have some fixed income? Why aren't you paying bills out of fixed income :confused
lazynovice
Posts: 3369
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 pm
Location: Denver area. Former Texan.

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by lazynovice »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:20 pm
cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:54 pm
HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm Hmm... okay...

I don't think that using triple-leveraged stock money to pay bills is very good system, but I guess if you're happy with it. Any tax considerations at all?
Do you have a particular reason in mind for why it might be a bad system, or is it more of a gut feeling?

And unfortunately, yes. While buys and sells are infrequent enough that transaction costs remain negligible, they're still frequent enough that I end up with a lot of wash sales come tax time. I've attempted to resolve the problem by buffering my accounts with a bit of margin, but since the securities themselves are already significantly leveraged, that margin buffer is necessarily thin and quickly expended.

I'm not too worried, though. Claiming those losses wouldn't have helped me all that much anyway, and by the time that they are worth worrying about, my accounts will have grown enough that the margin buffer substantially exceeds my expenses.

As for other tax-related issues, the automation I'm using is very good at prioritizing tax lots so when I do realize gains, they're taxed pretty favorably, and besides, I'd rather pay taxes on gains than have nothing to pay taxes on in the first place.
You do you, but I'd be concerned if I were slashing equities to pay bills. You mentioned quarterly rebalancing, which seems to imply you have some fixed income? Why aren't you paying bills out of fixed income :confused
If equities are overweighted and you are going to rebalance anyway, why not sell equities?

I don’t understand selling one day and buying the next though if it is avoidable.
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Marseille07 »

lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:26 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 2:20 pm
cos wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:54 pm
HomerJ wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 12:17 pm Hmm... okay...

I don't think that using triple-leveraged stock money to pay bills is very good system, but I guess if you're happy with it. Any tax considerations at all?
Do you have a particular reason in mind for why it might be a bad system, or is it more of a gut feeling?

And unfortunately, yes. While buys and sells are infrequent enough that transaction costs remain negligible, they're still frequent enough that I end up with a lot of wash sales come tax time. I've attempted to resolve the problem by buffering my accounts with a bit of margin, but since the securities themselves are already significantly leveraged, that margin buffer is necessarily thin and quickly expended.

I'm not too worried, though. Claiming those losses wouldn't have helped me all that much anyway, and by the time that they are worth worrying about, my accounts will have grown enough that the margin buffer substantially exceeds my expenses.

As for other tax-related issues, the automation I'm using is very good at prioritizing tax lots so when I do realize gains, they're taxed pretty favorably, and besides, I'd rather pay taxes on gains than have nothing to pay taxes on in the first place.
You do you, but I'd be concerned if I were slashing equities to pay bills. You mentioned quarterly rebalancing, which seems to imply you have some fixed income? Why aren't you paying bills out of fixed income :confused
If equities are overweighted and you are going to rebalance anyway, why not sell equities?

I don’t understand selling one day and buying the next though if it is avoidable.
That use case is totally fine.

As you stated, the original poster's situation didn't sound like rebalancing since they bought equities again.
Visitor76
Posts: 326
Joined: Tue Mar 17, 2020 7:08 am

Re: U.S. stocks in free fall

Post by Visitor76 »

Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:57 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:55 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:50 pm
Visitor76 wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:48 pm
lazynovice wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 1:38 pm

Sure and very sad news out of India, but what is different today than yesterday or last week? :confused :confused

Nevertheless, it presented us with what appears to be a buying opportunity today.
It looks like a good old case of European stocks following the US market like little ducks. Glad I sold my position in International a couple months ago.
??? Today Germany DAX crashed 2.3% and S&P500 & NASDAQ are following later.
If you look at the below chart under Europe, it appears the DAX took a dive after 12pm ET US.

https://www.marketwatch.com/
I think that's in CET, not ET US...it's already past 4 pm on that chart.
I see. It will be interesting to see what Europe does tomorrow.
Wealth is not about having a lot of money; it's about having a lot of options.
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