So what comes after "Enough"
- TheTimeLord
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So what comes after "Enough"
Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
IMHO, Investing should be about living the life you want, not avoiding the life you fear. |
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I have found that “Enough” is a mirage and the closer you get, the further away it looks.
- When I was much younger, I dreamed of $1M. Then I got married and bought a house and was amazed at how much debt I was in.
- I got older and wiser and dreamed of $5M. Surely that was enough money to retire and sail away. Then we had a baby, got a bigger house and I was amazed at how expensive children were.
- I got even older and thought that when we hit $10M, surely then there would be enough money. That day has come and gone.
If anything, I’ve gotten even more aggressive in allocation as time has gone on.
- When I was much younger, I dreamed of $1M. Then I got married and bought a house and was amazed at how much debt I was in.
- I got older and wiser and dreamed of $5M. Surely that was enough money to retire and sail away. Then we had a baby, got a bigger house and I was amazed at how expensive children were.
- I got even older and thought that when we hit $10M, surely then there would be enough money. That day has come and gone.
If anything, I’ve gotten even more aggressive in allocation as time has gone on.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
More than enough.So what comes after "Enough"
I changed nothing.So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
- SimpleGift
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
The biggest change for us has been, instead of rebalancing from stocks into bonds in recent years, we've more often been rebalancing out of stocks into our donor-advised fund.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing...
Reaching "enough," we now have the opportunity to share our good fortune with non-profits and other organizations that are working to make the planet a better place.
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
your question doesn't apply to me because i don't yet have "enough" monetarily speaking (i've got enough in other ways). but i'll play along with some ideas...
if you have enough or more than enough you've won the game and you can stop playing.
what comes after this? enjoy life and the security you've created for yourself and others. Get a hobby. Volunteer and give back. And so on. Do the things you never did but always wanted to. Life's short.
i guess one reason people not be sure if enough really is enough is inflation can change the goalposts. if you needed the proverbial $1 million last year to retire, don't you need 1,070,000 this year to retire? (obviously stocks should keep pace with that inflation over time, but anything is possible in the interim).
no matter how much money people have, not only do they want more, but they probably feel they need twice as much money as they currently have. In one study, “The Joys and Dimensions of Wealth” by Paul G. Schervish, even people who had at least $25 million felt they needed 25% more.
Author Robert Frank noted in his 2007 book, Richistan, “20 percent of households with between $1 million and $10 million in assets in 2004 spent all their income – or more.” http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ch/308419/
if you have enough or more than enough you've won the game and you can stop playing.
what comes after this? enjoy life and the security you've created for yourself and others. Get a hobby. Volunteer and give back. And so on. Do the things you never did but always wanted to. Life's short.
i guess one reason people not be sure if enough really is enough is inflation can change the goalposts. if you needed the proverbial $1 million last year to retire, don't you need 1,070,000 this year to retire? (obviously stocks should keep pace with that inflation over time, but anything is possible in the interim).
no matter how much money people have, not only do they want more, but they probably feel they need twice as much money as they currently have. In one study, “The Joys and Dimensions of Wealth” by Paul G. Schervish, even people who had at least $25 million felt they needed 25% more.
Author Robert Frank noted in his 2007 book, Richistan, “20 percent of households with between $1 million and $10 million in assets in 2004 spent all their income – or more.” http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/arc ... ch/308419/
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
- TomatoTomahto
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
After Enough, we put a significant amount of money in Bonds and Stable Value Funds (mostly in tax deferred accounts). All “new” money goes to Equties, a mix of Domestic and International depending on mood. I also decided to throw away my sharpened pencils; math makes my head hurt.
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
- AnnetteLouisan
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
After Enough, the holy grail is good blood pressure and preventing joint pain. May the force be with you on those quests.
Then it’s the Charity Circuit.
Then the next biggie is More Time.
Then it’s the Charity Circuit.
Then the next biggie is More Time.
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:21 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
What comes after "Enough"?
Greed
Don't ask me how I know
Greed
Don't ask me how I know
(AGE minus 23%) Bonds | 5% REITs | Balance 80% US (75/25 TSM/SCV) + 20% International (80/20 Developed/Emerging)
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
This has always stuck in my head. It’s from an interview that probably never happened.
How much money is enough money?
John D. Rockefeller answer “Just a little bit more.”
How much money is enough money?
John D. Rockefeller answer “Just a little bit more.”
- Svensk Anga
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I'm just waiting for Mr. Market to adjust our portfolio back to enough.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I was on the cusp pre-covid.. the rallies pushed me quite past. so I dumped my career and moved to the sticks.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
My investment portfolio is 79X and still plugging away with high equities. LEGACY but help the less fortunate people in the process !!!!!
Last edited by carminered2019 on Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
- MN-Investor
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
What comes after Enough?
Sharing.
One of my sisters who is just older than me is a fantastic knitter. For years she knitted easy-care baby blankets for a non-profit. Almost four years ago my husband unexpectedly passed away at age 63. A month later my sister sent me an afghan that she had knitted for my sweetie. She explained that she had specified in her will that he should be given this afghan. He never got to see it. I figure my wealth is like that. Yes, I can just leave my money to my heirs in my will. But I really, really have enough that I can start making a difference now when my loved ones can appreciate the help. So that's what I'm doing.
Sharing.
One of my sisters who is just older than me is a fantastic knitter. For years she knitted easy-care baby blankets for a non-profit. Almost four years ago my husband unexpectedly passed away at age 63. A month later my sister sent me an afghan that she had knitted for my sweetie. She explained that she had specified in her will that he should be given this afghan. He never got to see it. I figure my wealth is like that. Yes, I can just leave my money to my heirs in my will. But I really, really have enough that I can start making a difference now when my loved ones can appreciate the help. So that's what I'm doing.
The key to success - Save early, save often, invest well.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Jacob Moore (Shia LaBeouf) questions Bretton James (Josh Brolin) in Wall Street: Money Never Sleeps.
Moore: "Everybody has a number, and it's usually an exact number, so what is yours?"
James: "More."
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
After "Enough" is "Enough for the kids". Not that they'll get it for a long time, but I hope to pay for their educations and chip in for their bigger expenses in life.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
I do plan to get more aggressive in my investing now that I've hit "Enough". Increase my stocks while keeping my bonds at a fixed dollar amount.
When you hit "Enough", your need to take on more risk goes down, but your ability to take on more risk goes up.
- climber2020
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Fewer hours at the office, slightly more conservative portfolio (more bonds). Moved the goalposts a little bit.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
+1,000lobsterman2112 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:03 pm After "Enough" is "Enough for the kids". Not that they'll get it for a long time, but I hope to pay for their educations and chip in for their bigger expenses in life.
I do plan to get more aggressive in my investing now that I've hit "Enough". Increase my stocks while keeping my bonds at a fixed dollar amount.
When you hit "Enough", your need to take on more risk goes down, but your ability to take on more risk goes up.
- Jazztonight
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Personally, I firmly believe in the concept of "enough" and feel that DW and myself do indeed have enough.
I have not changed my AA over the last 10+ years, and only occasionally have re-balanced. It's not that I live particularly frugally. Rather, I can afford what I purchase, including planning for world cruises, which are pretty pricey.
Because of health/mobility issues, DW just can't travel the way we used to; thus cruises work for us.
I remember sitting at a table with some fellow diners on a cruise ship years ago and a few people were comparing what they paid for that particular cruise. One guy smiled and said, "Hell, I didn't pay for this cruise." He waited a beat and then added, "My children are paying for the cruise out of their inheritance. They just don't know it."
And that's my attitude. I drive a 2001 Camry, and live in a nice apartment with a nice view, all paid for except monthly fees. We now have our groceries delivered; I exercise at home (no gym fees and I'll bet I work out more than you do! LOL). I probably have all the clothing I'll ever need for the rest of my life. We have good health care and long-term care insurance. I'd say we pretty much do what we want to do.
I have friends my age (70s) who are still trying to monetize every damned thing they do. If this gives them joy, God bless 'em!
My own activities involve health maintenance and mental, physical, and cultural enrichment (foreign language study and music performance). That's what having "enough" is all about, to me. YMMV.
I have not changed my AA over the last 10+ years, and only occasionally have re-balanced. It's not that I live particularly frugally. Rather, I can afford what I purchase, including planning for world cruises, which are pretty pricey.
Because of health/mobility issues, DW just can't travel the way we used to; thus cruises work for us.
I remember sitting at a table with some fellow diners on a cruise ship years ago and a few people were comparing what they paid for that particular cruise. One guy smiled and said, "Hell, I didn't pay for this cruise." He waited a beat and then added, "My children are paying for the cruise out of their inheritance. They just don't know it."
And that's my attitude. I drive a 2001 Camry, and live in a nice apartment with a nice view, all paid for except monthly fees. We now have our groceries delivered; I exercise at home (no gym fees and I'll bet I work out more than you do! LOL). I probably have all the clothing I'll ever need for the rest of my life. We have good health care and long-term care insurance. I'd say we pretty much do what we want to do.
I have friends my age (70s) who are still trying to monetize every damned thing they do. If this gives them joy, God bless 'em!
My own activities involve health maintenance and mental, physical, and cultural enrichment (foreign language study and music performance). That's what having "enough" is all about, to me. YMMV.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I’m keeping my equity allocation near 100%. I’m too far away from retirement age to quit now and need a good crash to get me back down to less than enough to keep me motivated.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Ditto.
I aimed for Enough and entered retirement with More Than Enough. Did not change my investment strategy, but I did significantly increase my annual allowance. (But have yet to spend all of my allowance in any year.)
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
When I read this post, I thought I had written itfortunefavored wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:33 pm I was on the cusp pre-covid.. the rallies pushed me quite past. so I dumped my career and moved to the sticks.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
As our net worth has increased, our stock allocation has gone down. This seems only rational.
I have invested in augmenting my TIPS ladder to provide inflation adjusted income over the next 20-25 years.
I now know that I have more than enough and staying rich is more important than becoming yet richer. Presently
at 43% stocks. We have no kids or heirs that we are saving for.
If enough is not enough, you need to revisit the definition of the word. I used to think I could always use an extra
million$ or so for some new adventure, business or hobby. But at some point in life, you simply can't improve your
happiness. We travel at least 3 months a year, have all the house we will ever want and do whatever we please.
Peace of mind is now far more important than making more money.
I have invested in augmenting my TIPS ladder to provide inflation adjusted income over the next 20-25 years.
I now know that I have more than enough and staying rich is more important than becoming yet richer. Presently
at 43% stocks. We have no kids or heirs that we are saving for.
If enough is not enough, you need to revisit the definition of the word. I used to think I could always use an extra
million$ or so for some new adventure, business or hobby. But at some point in life, you simply can't improve your
happiness. We travel at least 3 months a year, have all the house we will ever want and do whatever we please.
Peace of mind is now far more important than making more money.
Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler - Einstein
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
An old story you’ve probably seen…
At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel, Catch-22, over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have – enough.”
At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel, Catch-22, over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have – enough.”
Friar1610 |
50-ish/50-ish - a satisficer, not a maximizer
- Jazztonight
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
+1 You said it well, brother!Prokofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:30 pm As our net worth has increased, our stock allocation has gone down. This seems only rational.
I have invested in augmenting my TIPS ladder to provide inflation adjusted income over the next 20-25 years.
I now know that I have more than enough and staying rich is more important than becoming yet richer. Presently at 43% stocks. We have no kids or heirs that we are saving for.
If enough is not enough, you need to revisit the definition of the word. I used to think I could always use an extra million$ or so for some new adventure, business or hobby. But at some point in life, you simply can't improve your happiness. We travel at least 3 months a year, have all the house we will ever want and do whatever we please.
Peace of mind is now far more important than making more money.
"What does not destroy me, makes me stronger." Nietzsche
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
The big picture I see here is that "Expenses" are a moving target.010101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:38 pm I have found that “Enough” is a mirage and the closer you get, the further away it looks.
- When I was much younger, I dreamed of $1M. Then I got married and bought a house and was amazed at how much debt I was in.
- I got older and wiser and dreamed of $5M. Surely that was enough money to retire and sail away. Then we had a baby, got a bigger house and I was amazed at how expensive children were.
- I got even older and thought that when we hit $10M, surely then there would be enough money. That day has come and gone.
If anything, I’ve gotten even more aggressive in allocation as time has gone on.
Marriage
House
Furniture
Vacations
Kids
Are all expensive.
But data don't lie. When kids leave, and you have an empty nest, it gets cheaper.
I don't carry a signature because people are easily offended.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Enough said!friar1610 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:48 pm An old story you’ve probably seen…
At a party given by a billionaire on Shelter Island, the late Kurt Vonnegut informs his pal, author Joseph Heller, that their host, a hedge fund manager, had made more money in a single day than Heller had earned from his wildly popular novel, Catch-22, over its whole history. Heller responds, “Yes, but I have something he will never have – enough.”
I don't carry a signature because people are easily offended.
- AllMostThere
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I pulled plug Jan 2021 and DW plans on pulling plug May 2022. We both agree that we have "enough", but we have yet to dip into our retirement accounts as DW is still working. We have exceeded our target "number" by 50%, and we are NOT making any changes to our 60/40 AA. I keep telling DW we are good, but she is still leery. I'm sure that will change her first week of retirement.
Last edited by AllMostThere on Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It is not about how much you make; it is about how much you keep and how well you invest it. - Author Unknown |
Dream as if you’ll live forever. Live as if you’ll die today. - Author James Dean
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough...
Yeah, I personally haven't reached "enough," but I'd have a hard time declaring victory under these conditions if I just recently arrived at that mark.Svensk Anga wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:32 pm I'm just waiting for Mr. Market to adjust our portfolio back to enough.
S&P 500 inflation adjusted earnings are up 60% from the high prior to the 2007-2009 collapse, so that's real growth, but prices are up 200% and that just feels illusory to me. Despite a relatively conservative asset allocation with a good helping of international stocks, my net worth is now several years ahead of my projections. I think I'll stick to the projected numbers to determine when I have "enough."
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
When I am done with stuff, anything left over is for a non profit. So making that number bigger in the future has limited appeal. Almost two years ago March 2020 I sold a second home and bought a much bigger place. Because, the market had been extremely kind. Fast forward to now and the market is even better and that much bigger house just about doubled. Now I am making deals with God that I will be a better person if you just keep the market even!
Last edited by Wricha on Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
This!AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:25 pm After Enough, the holy grail is good blood pressure and preventing joint pain. May the force be with you on those quests.
Then the next biggie is More Time.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
With more than enough, we give to those in need and to heirs (above the annual gift-tax exclusion limit).
A donor-advised fund simplifies the former. Yay for simplicity!
Gift-tax returns complicate the latter, but they're worth it and not really that difficult. (However, record-keeping becomes an issue.) If one can do so, and if your heirs are responsible with money (as ours are), then let them have some of it while it's most useful for them for buying homes, growing families, and establishing careers.
I'm very happy with these two decisions.
A donor-advised fund simplifies the former. Yay for simplicity!
Gift-tax returns complicate the latter, but they're worth it and not really that difficult. (However, record-keeping becomes an issue.) If one can do so, and if your heirs are responsible with money (as ours are), then let them have some of it while it's most useful for them for buying homes, growing families, and establishing careers.
I'm very happy with these two decisions.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
This is a "family friendly" environment. Not just for language, but subject matter as well.
I removed a post and several replies on a topic intended for adults. (The language was fine.)
I removed a post and several replies on a topic intended for adults. (The language was fine.)
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I'm probably a few years away from enough. When I get there I'll probably maintain a consistent 45% stocks/55% bonds allocation. I'm not greedy, so when I get enough, it will really be enough.
ROTH: 50% AVGE, 10% DFAX, 40% BNDW. Taxable: 50% BNDW, 40% AVGE, 10% DFAX.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Presumably, if you have individuals vs. qualified charities that you want to gift to, you can give them those appreciated shares the OP mentioned (vs. cash), and avoid capital gains taxes (since the person you give them to wouldn't have enough income to pay capital gains taxes.)itsmeagain wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 5:30 pm With more than enough, we give to those in need and to heirs (above the annual gift-tax exclusion limit).
A donor-advised fund simplifies the former. Yay for simplicity!
Gift-tax returns complicate the latter, but they're worth it and not really that difficult. (However, record-keeping becomes an issue.) If one can do so, and if your heirs are responsible with money (as ours are), then let them have some of it while it's most useful for them for buying homes, growing families, and establishing careers.
I'm very happy with these two decisions.
- quantAndHold
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I got to “enough” in 2017, and promptly quit my job. Now, not surprisingly, my withdrawal rate is sub 2%. That is never what I intended.
The problem I have, though, is, is this just a phase, and are we lined up for a big crash in the next 5 years? If it is, then I have enough, but not really more than that, at least not yet. If the big crash doesn’t happen, then clearly, I’ll need to make some changes (probably a combination of spending a bit more and giving it away faster). But for now, I’m just continuing on as if nothing happened.
So yeah, I have more than enough. But I’m still nervous.
The problem I have, though, is, is this just a phase, and are we lined up for a big crash in the next 5 years? If it is, then I have enough, but not really more than that, at least not yet. If the big crash doesn’t happen, then clearly, I’ll need to make some changes (probably a combination of spending a bit more and giving it away faster). But for now, I’m just continuing on as if nothing happened.
So yeah, I have more than enough. But I’m still nervous.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I'm only being half cheeky: Is "up to your neck in alligators all day every day" a reference to your Megacorp or post-Megacorp life?fortunefavored wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:33 pm I was on the cusp pre-covid.. the rallies pushed me quite past. so I dumped my career and moved to the sticks.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Ha ha, I meant during my megacorp days. You just don't see how bad it is when you're constantly working 60 hours/week running around like crazy.02nz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:31 pmI'm only being half cheeky: Is "up to your neck in alligators all day every day" a reference to your Megacorp or post-Megacorp life?fortunefavored wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:33 pm I was on the cusp pre-covid.. the rallies pushed me quite past. so I dumped my career and moved to the sticks.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
Now I mostly ensure I walk the dog. He rarely demands ethically dubious decisions!
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
fortunefavored wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:35 pmHa ha, I meant during my megacorp days. You just don't see how bad it is when you're constantly working 60 hours/week running around like crazy.02nz wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 6:31 pmI'm only being half cheeky: Is "up to your neck in alligators all day every day" a reference to your Megacorp or post-Megacorp life?fortunefavored wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 3:33 pm I was on the cusp pre-covid.. the rallies pushed me quite past. so I dumped my career and moved to the sticks.
No change in investment plans, other than sitting on too much cash (although still part of my fixed income AA.)
And not working or being involved in any way with megacorps is amazing. You forget how unnatural, artificial and evil the whole thing is when you're up to your neck in alligators all day every day.
Now I mostly ensure I walk the dog. He rarely demands ethically dubious decisions!
- WoodSpinner
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
We have just left things generally alone, but:TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
- Significantly increased gifting to family
- Significantly increased Charitable donations
- Added more family trips to our vacation plans (e.g. upped our spending).
Very cognizant of having enough and focusing on enjoying life, retirement, family and friends.
WoodSpinner
WoodSpinner
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Yes, I went thru that. And it's easy to get on the treadmill of bigger houses, better vacations, more this, more that.AlphaLess wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:50 pmThe big picture I see here is that "Expenses" are a moving target.010101 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:38 pm I have found that “Enough” is a mirage and the closer you get, the further away it looks.
- When I was much younger, I dreamed of $1M. Then I got married and bought a house and was amazed at how much debt I was in.
- I got older and wiser and dreamed of $5M. Surely that was enough money to retire and sail away. Then we had a baby, got a bigger house and I was amazed at how expensive children were.
- I got even older and thought that when we hit $10M, surely then there would be enough money. That day has come and gone.
If anything, I’ve gotten even more aggressive in allocation as time has gone on.
Marriage, House, Furniture, Vacations, Kids
...
But data don't lie. When kids leave, and you have an empty nest, it gets cheaper.
But at some point, you have to limit expenses if you want financial independence. That means the house is big enough, no additional kids, don't need a boat, etc.
Prokofiev says it well.
A second factor is that your initial "number" is likely to be optimistic, i.e. low. The 25x expenses number is the standard, but everyone would feel better and more comfortable if that number was higher. So the number [goalpost] gets moved in order to lower risk. Nothing wrong with that the first time it happens.Jazztonight wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:50 pmProkofiev wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:30 pm ...
If enough is not enough, you need to revisit the definition of the word. I used to think I could always use an extra million$ or so for some new adventure, business or hobby. But at some point in life, you simply can't improve your happiness. We travel at least 3 months a year, have all the house we will ever want and do whatever we please.
Peace of mind is now far more important than making more money.
But it does mean it's time to pick a number that you *ARE* comfortable with. Just like with expenses, if you keep moving the goalposts, you are only fooling yourself. The key is to pick a number *YOU* are comfortable with -- 25x, 40x, 50x, 75x, 100x?
And I agree with lobsterman2112 below.
I lowered my equity allocation when I retired because I was worried about sequence risk. When SORR didn't happen and my portfolio and net worth went up instead, I went to a higher equity allocation. Equity risk is of less concern to me now than at any point in my financial life.lobsterman2112 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 4:03 pm ...
I do plan to get more aggressive in my investing now that I've hit "Enough". Increase my stocks while keeping my bonds at a fixed dollar amount.
When you hit "Enough", your need to take on more risk goes down, but your ability to take on more risk goes up.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
We aren't FI yet, but we're already thinking about what we'll do once we reach that level. I long 'knew' that I would hit the door quickly, but when I think about how many literal lives could be saved by my continuing to work and donate the surplus, I no longer know what I'll do.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
The Sensible Steward
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Retirement bliss! No need to alter a successful plan.TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
We earned more than our expenses in p/t work in 2021, didn't even touch 42x portfolio. We are making use of the $ by upgrading/repairing/ improving some things in house..wardrobe, shoes, tv, appliances, paint, probably 1 vehicle. Things that won't have to be dealt with again for 8-10 yrs.
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
I would say that after "enough" comes a "margin of safety". Meeting your goal in the 12th year of a bull market feels a bit tentative.
“The greatest shortcoming of the human race is our inability to understand the exponential function.” - Albert Allen Bartlett
- AnnetteLouisan
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
Is the X everyone’s referring to “anticipated residual expenses in retirement”, or current spend, or anticipated spend in retirement plus taxes?59Gibson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:30 pm We earned more than our expenses in p/t work in 2021, didn't even touch 42x portfolio. We are making use of the $ by upgrading/repairing/ improving some things in house..wardrobe, shoes, tv, appliances, paint, probably 1 vehicle. Things that won't have to be dealt with again for 8-10 yrs.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
OP,
After "enough", for every 60K increase in my portfolio, I withdraw 30K to pay down my mortgage.
KlangFool
After "enough", for every 60K increase in my portfolio, I withdraw 30K to pay down my mortgage.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:34 pmIs the X everyone’s referring to “anticipated residual expenses in retirement”, or current spend, or anticipated spend in retirement plus taxes?59Gibson wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 8:30 pm We earned more than our expenses in p/t work in 2021, didn't even touch 42x portfolio. We are making use of the $ by upgrading/repairing/ improving some things in house..wardrobe, shoes, tv, appliances, paint, probably 1 vehicle. Things that won't have to be dealt with again for 8-10 yrs.
I use an avg for last 4-5 yrs + little additional for anticipated expenses.
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
It is difficult to know when you have reached "Enough" and more so as we live in interesting times. For DW and myself "Enough" is when you feel comfortable and do not worry about money. But as Gandalf said "For even the very wise cannot see all ends.”TheTimeLord wrote: ↑Sun Jan 16, 2022 2:24 pm Over the last 3 years with VTI returning 31.67%, 21.03% and 25.67% I am sure there are lots of BH who have gone from "Enough" to well north of enough. So how has getting to whatever comes after "Enough" changed your investing or did you just leave things the way they were?
There are many big things in the world that you have no control over. What we can control is to maintain a conservative allocation than runs between 30-40% equities with hopes to keep up with inflation. But even so, there always remains some worry even if you have a zero withdrawal rate. As such what I believe comes next is as "AnnetteLouisan" posted (I somewhat paraphrase):
"After Enough, the holy grail is good blood pressure and preventing joint pain.
Then the next biggie is More Time."
I agree; "next" is health and the time to enjoy it and the attitude to strive for both.
“The eye sees only what the mind is prepared to comprehend.” |
— Robertson Davies
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Re: So what comes after "Enough"
According to the Merriam-Webster dictionary the answer is enounce
Normal people… believe that if it ain’t broke, don’t fix it. Engineers believe that if it ain’t broke, it doesn’t have enough features yet. – Scott Adams
Re: So what comes after "Enough"
100% equities and working.
Enough at 53
Retired and went to 60%
Drifted next 9 years to 50% and holding pattern
Enough at 53
Retired and went to 60%
Drifted next 9 years to 50% and holding pattern