Vanguard Customer Service Mega-thread

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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:39 am I appreciate your detailed response, but you are taking my first one-line response about secretaries far too literally. I don't know whether you are working or retired, nor in what industry you work or worked. However, I work as an engineer for a largish manufacturing company, and I can tell you that these type of executive assistant positions have been systematically eliminated ...
You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
I'm just responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by marcopolo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm
HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:39 am I appreciate your detailed response, but you are taking my first one-line response about secretaries far too literally. I don't know whether you are working or retired, nor in what industry you work or worked. However, I work as an engineer for a largish manufacturing company, and I can tell you that these type of executive assistant positions have been systematically eliminated ...
You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
I'm responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
Well, you made the comment (agreed that hyperbole is lost on text exchanges), and when contradicted, you defended it multiple times (only CEOs have them, etc.), only later to say you didnt really mean it, and it is only because Vanguard does not have enough money to afford good customer service.

Also, you ignored numerous responses stating specifically that the admin issue is not the main point, but rather the general unprofessional attitude/behavior of Vanguard customer relations.

So, setting all that aside, I am curious, you have long been a defender of Vanguard service, often "blaming the victim" (I am being a bit hyperbolic here), or pointing to industry surveys, etc. So, is your position that Vanguard's customers service is fine and these anecdotes are just isolated disgruntled customers, or that because of their lack of high margin products, their poor service is the best they can afford? It seems odd to make both claims.

For people looking to decide where to do business, this is an important distinction. In the former case, they should largely ignore these threads and be comfortable doing business with Vanguard. In the latter case, they need to decide if the lack of the mere temptation to utilize more expensive products and services is worth putting up with the poor service.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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HanSolo
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by HanSolo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm I'm just responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
The original one-line quip (about "secretaries") was mine (and yes, I'm already aware that the term is old-fashioned; nevertheless, it's still correct English, according to the dictionary, anyway... and I didn't anticipate that some people would object to it). Thus, I was going to offer you exactly the same comment as you wrote above!

To bring this back on-topic... the customer service issues that have been raised in this thread are not cost issues primarily (or even at all). Sometimes there are issues that can be explained purely by costs, and sometimes the issues have more to do with attitude and competence around professionalism. If you disagree, it probably just means that your experience in business is different from mine.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE

Post by Taylor Larimore »

GP813 wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 4:39 pm
Taylor Larimore wrote: Mon Nov 01, 2021 12:04 pm Bogleheads:

I have been with Vanguard since 1968. They have given me a long and comfortable retirement without problems.

It helps that my simple three-fund portfolio (Total Stock Market, Total Bond Market and a Money Market fund) requires minimum maintenance.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "Simplicity is the master key to financial success. -- We ignore the real diamonds of simplicity, seeking instead, the illusory rhinestones of complexity."
When did you finally settle on the 3 fund portfolio?
GP813:

I am not sure. I read hundred's of investing books before designing The Three-Fund Portfolio (now two funds for personal tax reasons). Scott Burn's "Couch Potato Portfolio" was also an early influencer.

If my memory is correct, I think I made a Morningstar Vanguard Diehard post recommending The Three-Fund Portfolio (plus a money market fund) in the year 2000.

Best wishes
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "The Three-Fund Portfolio will help you to develop a sound asset allocation strategy, make smart investment selections, and guide the implementation of your plan."
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

pokebowl wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:09 pm
Tom_T wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 2:40 pm So, if we're not getting someone on the phone right away, or if the person isn't helpful, there's at least some evidence that it's not their fault. Whether this situation is the same at other places, I couldn't say. But there is enough smoke to make me at least start to think about alternatives.
Vanguard could alleviate the phone pressures if they allowed email or a chat service to additionally filter customer inquires. They could also work on website search functionality and make many common activities automated via both their website and mobile app.

Vanguard instead has opted to reduce or eliminate all other alternatives and filter everyone through the phones regardless of time zones.
So, I called Vanguard for something today and yes, they were busy with longer than usual wait times but they were upfront about it. First, there was a prerecorded Tim Buckley message informing me of the longer wait time. Then an automated menu came up asking the nature of my call to redirect my inquiry to the proper department, then another announcement that the wait time was between 11 minutes and 27 minutes and I could elect to have them call me when the next representative was available or I could remain on hold. I elected to have them call me back (they called me back 5 minutes later after walking through the announcements and menu for 3-5 minutes), one representative was unable to assist me with my technical question (and it was I admit technical) but transferred me to another representative who was able to help me and while on the phone with me resolved my issue in 10-12 minutes after consulting with another colleague. I’m satisfied and impressed they worked on researching and obtaining the answer to my technical inquiry without me having to call back again.

Again, every one’s situation is or can be different but I don’t find the customer service at Vanguard to be lacking. I’ve been with them for a while now and I’m not going to “jump ship” for being on hold for 30 minutes.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:31 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm I'm just responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
The original one-line quip (about "secretaries") was mine (and yes, I'm already aware that the term is old-fashioned; nevertheless, it's still correct English, according to the dictionary, anyway... and I didn't anticipate that some people would object to it). Thus, I was going to offer you exactly the same comment as you wrote above!

To bring this back on-topic... the customer service issues that have been raised in this thread are not cost issues primarily (or even at all). Sometimes there are issues that can be explained purely by costs, and sometimes the issues have more to do with attitude and competence around professionalism. If you disagree, it probably just means that your experience in business is different from mine.
Now that you have looked up secretary in the dictionary, look up quip and consider whether your original phrasing in context would qualify as such.
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HanSolo
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by HanSolo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:24 pm Now that you have looked up secretary in the dictionary, look up quip and consider whether your original phrasing in context would qualify as such.
In fact, it does. Thanks for noticing.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm
HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:39 am I appreciate your detailed response, but you are taking my first one-line response about secretaries far too literally. I don't know whether you are working or retired, nor in what industry you work or worked. However, I work as an engineer for a largish manufacturing company, and I can tell you that these type of executive assistant positions have been systematically eliminated ...
You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
I'm responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
Well, you made the comment (agreed that hyperbole is lost on text exchanges), and when contradicted, you defended it multiple times (only CEOs have them, etc.), only later to say you didnt really mean it, and it is only because Vanguard does not have enough money to afford good customer service.

Also, you ignored numerous responses stating specifically that the admin issue is not the main point, but rather the general unprofessional attitude/behavior of Vanguard customer relations.

So, setting all that aside, I am curious, you have long been a defender of Vanguard service, often "blaming the victim" (I am being a bit hyperbolic here), or pointing to industry surveys, etc. So, is your position that Vanguard's customers service is fine and these anecdotes are just isolated disgruntled customers, or that because of their lack of high margin products, their poor service is the best they can afford? It seems odd to make both claims.

For people looking to decide where to do business, this is an important distinction. In the former case, they should largely ignore these threads and be comfortable doing business with Vanguard. In the latter case, they need to decide if the lack of the mere temptation to utilize more expensive products and services is worth putting up with the poor service.
I really don't want to continue with one of this silliest internet arguments in which I've ever participated, so you guys can have the W on secretaries.

Sure, I do a lot of victim blaming. Sometimes it is even justified. Yes, I like Vanguard, but I'd be interested to know where I've proactively used survey results to defend them. I've posted in threads where other have, but that's not my M.O., so there may be some used conflation at play. I tend to say things like Vanguard complaints are likely to more common on an historically Vanguard-centric message board, or that anecdotal accounts are over-amplified here. I've seen enough negativity espoused by long-term clients to convince me there are problems, but I remain personally unaffected. I don't trust the brokerage landscape to remain static, and don't relish switching providers or the associated proliferation of accounts.

Since personal values like attitude and work ethic have been brought into the argument, I'll add patience. I have very low expectations and almost boundless patience in customer service interactions. This baseline condition makes me both less sympathetic to the complaints of others and more likely to be pleasantly surprised when any customer service interaction with any provider goes better than the worst for which I am prepared. Good customer service is refreshing when you encounter it, but I no longer except it or demand it. I feel this is better for my mental health and stress levels.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:41 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:24 pm Now that you have looked up secretary in the dictionary, look up quip and consider whether your original phrasing in context would qualify as such.
In fact, it does. Thanks for noticing.
Hmm. Odd take on the definition, but OK. You seem as obstinate as me.
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HanSolo
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by HanSolo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:58 pm Hmm. Odd take on the definition, but OK. You seem as obstinate as me.
Nah... I'm open to my witticisms being either appreciated or not. It's all good.
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:54 pm I really don't want to continue with one of this silliest internet arguments in which I've ever participated,
Good.
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marcopolo
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by marcopolo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:54 pm
marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm
HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:39 am I appreciate your detailed response, but you are taking my first one-line response about secretaries far too literally. I don't know whether you are working or retired, nor in what industry you work or worked. However, I work as an engineer for a largish manufacturing company, and I can tell you that these type of executive assistant positions have been systematically eliminated ...
You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
I'm responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
Well, you made the comment (agreed that hyperbole is lost on text exchanges), and when contradicted, you defended it multiple times (only CEOs have them, etc.), only later to say you didnt really mean it, and it is only because Vanguard does not have enough money to afford good customer service.

Also, you ignored numerous responses stating specifically that the admin issue is not the main point, but rather the general unprofessional attitude/behavior of Vanguard customer relations.

So, setting all that aside, I am curious, you have long been a defender of Vanguard service, often "blaming the victim" (I am being a bit hyperbolic here), or pointing to industry surveys, etc. So, is your position that Vanguard's customers service is fine and these anecdotes are just isolated disgruntled customers, or that because of their lack of high margin products, their poor service is the best they can afford? It seems odd to make both claims.

For people looking to decide where to do business, this is an important distinction. In the former case, they should largely ignore these threads and be comfortable doing business with Vanguard. In the latter case, they need to decide if the lack of the mere temptation to utilize more expensive products and services is worth putting up with the poor service.
I really don't want to continue with one of this silliest internet arguments in which I've ever participated, so you guys can have the W on secretaries.

Sure, I do a lot of victim blaming. Sometimes it is even justified. Yes, I like Vanguard, but I'd be interested to know where I've proactively used survey results to defend them. I've posted in threads where other have, but that's not my M.O., so there may be some used conflation at play. I tend to say things like Vanguard complaints are likely to more common on an historically Vanguard-centric message board, or that anecdotal accounts are over-amplified here. I've seen enough negativity espoused by long-term clients to convince me there are problems, but I remain personally unaffected. I don't trust the brokerage landscape to remain static, and don't relish switching providers or the associated proliferation of accounts.

Since personal values like attitude and work ethic have been brought into the argument, I'll add patience. I have very low expectations and almost boundless patience in customer service interactions. This baseline condition makes me both less sympathetic to the complaints of others and more likely to be pleasantly surprised when any customer service interaction with any provider goes better than the worst for which I am prepared. Good customer service is refreshing when you encounter it, but I no longer except it or demand it. I feel this is better for my mental health and stress levels.
That reminds me of an old comedy skit (SNL, or maybe MadTV) called "Lowered Expectations" :beer
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
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anon_investor
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by anon_investor »

marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 9:10 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 8:54 pm
marcopolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 5:28 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 4:37 pm
HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm

You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
I'm responding to each post quoting me according to the content it contains, not making additional arguments about the original post in the thread. Why do you or anyone else care what I think about secretaries? You guys turned a one-line quip meant in jest into a multi-paragraph back-and-forth reply fest.
Well, you made the comment (agreed that hyperbole is lost on text exchanges), and when contradicted, you defended it multiple times (only CEOs have them, etc.), only later to say you didnt really mean it, and it is only because Vanguard does not have enough money to afford good customer service.

Also, you ignored numerous responses stating specifically that the admin issue is not the main point, but rather the general unprofessional attitude/behavior of Vanguard customer relations.

So, setting all that aside, I am curious, you have long been a defender of Vanguard service, often "blaming the victim" (I am being a bit hyperbolic here), or pointing to industry surveys, etc. So, is your position that Vanguard's customers service is fine and these anecdotes are just isolated disgruntled customers, or that because of their lack of high margin products, their poor service is the best they can afford? It seems odd to make both claims.

For people looking to decide where to do business, this is an important distinction. In the former case, they should largely ignore these threads and be comfortable doing business with Vanguard. In the latter case, they need to decide if the lack of the mere temptation to utilize more expensive products and services is worth putting up with the poor service.
I really don't want to continue with one of this silliest internet arguments in which I've ever participated, so you guys can have the W on secretaries.

Sure, I do a lot of victim blaming. Sometimes it is even justified. Yes, I like Vanguard, but I'd be interested to know where I've proactively used survey results to defend them. I've posted in threads where other have, but that's not my M.O., so there may be some used conflation at play. I tend to say things like Vanguard complaints are likely to more common on an historically Vanguard-centric message board, or that anecdotal accounts are over-amplified here. I've seen enough negativity espoused by long-term clients to convince me there are problems, but I remain personally unaffected. I don't trust the brokerage landscape to remain static, and don't relish switching providers or the associated proliferation of accounts.

Since personal values like attitude and work ethic have been brought into the argument, I'll add patience. I have very low expectations and almost boundless patience in customer service interactions. This baseline condition makes me both less sympathetic to the complaints of others and more likely to be pleasantly surprised when any customer service interaction with any provider goes better than the worst for which I am prepared. Good customer service is refreshing when you encounter it, but I no longer except it or demand it. I feel this is better for my mental health and stress levels.
That reminds me of an old comedy skit (SNL, or maybe MadTV) called "Lowered Expectations" :beer
I think it was MadTV, it was that reoccurring fake video dating submission sketch!

On a relevant note, I have been a Vanguard customer for over 20 years, and only this year have I opened accounts at other brokerages (still maintaining my Vanguard one for now) and I clearly have noticed the differences. Vanguard certainly is not doing itself any favors by many of their recent changes (removing secure messaging for some customers, terrible new mobile app, etc.). Their phone hours are also limited (plus closed on weekends). I have not suffered any major Vanguard customer service issues aside from the extremely long wait times. But they can't blame the pandemic for that anymore. I have called Merrill Edge and Fidelity at different times during the day (even in the middle of the night) and their hold times are significantly less or no wait. I have also used the Fidelity live chat for assistance, it worked great. While I am a DIY investor at heart and don't need any hand holding, that does not mean I do not appreciate good customer service. Vanguard has certainly fallen behind and I am not sure they even care to try to catch up, and that is the biggest problem...
Tom_T
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Re: VANGUARD CUSTOMER SERVICE from bad to worse

Post by Tom_T »

HanSolo wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 3:39 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Nov 02, 2021 6:39 am I appreciate your detailed response, but you are taking my first one-line response about secretaries far too literally. I don't know whether you are working or retired, nor in what industry you work or worked. However, I work as an engineer for a largish manufacturing company, and I can tell you that these type of executive assistant positions have been systematically eliminated ...
You're focusing way too much on the "secretary/admin" angle. That's not really the issue. Please refer to my earlier comments about how I'd handle this if I were the rep's manager, and my comments about how some outcomes in business are attitude-driven rather than cost-driven (according to my experience, anyway... maybe not yours).
It's quite possible that a rep's "calendar of appointments" is in some online account, like Google Calendar, and nobody else in the company is going to be looking at it. So, if he misses an appointment, no one knows.
Tom_T
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by Tom_T »

By the way, I found it amusing that there's another active thread called "Fidelity customer service declining?"

Customer service is just not a priority for many companies.
VT1964
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Poor Vanguard Customer Service

Post by VT1964 »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

What is their problem? I rarely call them, and today need to talk to them about a transfer I was making INTO vanguard, and was asked to hold 58 minutes. Then I hung up and tried another option to get to 'account management' and the person answering was clueless. When I told him that holding for 58 minutes was too long he said "it's tax season" (?) and they are busy. I am bothered by not being able to contact Vanguard when needed and dealing with a dummy who is supposed to do account maintenance.

Anyone have a similar experience? I am wondering if there is a better brokerage firm with a minimum of customer service that is recommended!
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SmileyFace
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Re: Poor Vanguard Customer Service

Post by SmileyFace »

Lots of similar experiences - dozens of active discussions if you scroll through other posts (don't even need to do a search).
Fidelity and Schwab are both better (along with several others) for customer service.
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Re: Poor Vanguard Customer Service

Post by dbr »

VT1964 wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:02 pm When I told him that holding for 58 minutes was too long he said "it's tax season" (?) and they are busy.
"November is another slow month on the tax calendar. The only deadline is for employees reporting tips earned in October to their boss. That report is due November 10."

https://www.kiplinger.com/article/taxes ... ue%20Dates
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged VT1964's thread into the ongoing discussion.
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Exchme
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by Exchme »

My wife called last week, got the "busier than usual" message and had them call back about an IRA transfer from another brokerage. They called back within 30 minutes and the rep was helpful and knowledgeable and did her paperwork right there on the phone, e-mailing back and forth to get the request to the other firm e-signed. While there is ostensibly an on-line way to do this, it didn't work for the place her money was.

Then my wife passed the phone to me to convert some mutual funds to ETFs. The transfer specialist rep passed us to another department with no wait time and that rep was also knowledgeable and quick. The conversion was done by the start of the next business day. My only quibble is why couldn't this be done in the on-line menu system instead of loading up the customer support lines.

So while it might be nice if they answered on the first ring, the experience was fine for us.
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by Rajsx »

I finally just got done speaking with my new Flagship Select Rep, who sounded young & a fine gentleman. He apologized for not showing up & the glitch with our earlier appointment. He was interested in knowing my near plans/transactions at Vanguard & how he could help in anyway.
When asked upon, I gave him my frank & honest feedback about my experience working with Vanguard Website, its customer service, & the general sentiment at Bogleheads.
May be Vanguard already does, but I asked him(or his team Members) to lurk on our Forum to find areas Vanguard could strengthen upon as our forum does have a sizable number of Index oriented Vanguard investors, along with those from Fidelity, Schwab & other Brokers.

I personally have been with Vanguard for around 30 yrs, I think the recent massive growth in the assets at Vanguard has been good but not without its hiccups. They have been trying to monetize the growth with the PAS(0.3%) as a source of income as they can not go higher on the expenses ratios of their funds as Fidelity & Schwab now have lower expense ratios.

Servicing these many clients with the recent growth costs money & well trained people & I think some where in there lies the problem/answer.

Still it needs to be said, I believe Vanguard has assets of around 8 trillion, the largest Broker on the Planet & it is not by an accident. We all see the value, at least I see a reason to be with Vanguard, apart from the issues in last few years. Mr Bogle showed the world what a Index Fund is & now the whole world follows the idea. PAS if not for me is a very viable option for my DW when I lose my marbles or pass away.

Anyway, a frustrating experience did finally turn out okay & I am over it now.
marcopolo
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by marcopolo »

Rajsx wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:37 pm I finally just got done speaking with my new Flagship Select Rep, who sounded young & a fine gentleman. He apologized for not showing up & the glitch with our earlier appointment. He was interested in knowing my near plans/transactions at Vanguard & how he could help in anyway.
When asked upon, I gave him my frank & honest feedback about my experience working with Vanguard Website, its customer service, & the general sentiment at Bogleheads.
May be Vanguard already does, but I asked him(or his team Members) to lurk on our Forum to find areas Vanguard could strengthen upon as our forum does have a sizable number of Index oriented Vanguard investors, along with those from Fidelity, Schwab & other Brokers.

I personally have been with Vanguard for around 30 yrs, I think the recent massive growth in the assets at Vanguard has been good but not without its hiccups. They have been trying to monetize the growth with the PAS(0.3%) as a source of income as they can not go higher on the expenses ratios of their funds as Fidelity & Schwab now have lower expense ratios.

Servicing these many clients with the recent growth costs money & well trained people & I think some where in there lies the problem/answer.

Still it needs to be said, I believe Vanguard has assets of around 8 trillion, the largest Broker on the Planet & it is not by an accident. We all see the value, at least I see a reason to be with Vanguard, apart from the issues in last few years. Mr Bogle showed the world what a Index Fund is & now the whole world follows the idea. PAS if not for me is a very viable option for my DW when I lose my marbles or pass away.

Anyway, a frustrating experience did finally turn out okay & I am over it now.
Glad things worked out OK.

I believe, but could be mistaken, that the $8B is assets under management, which I think refers to the money invested in their funds, and that has indeed grown a lot. But, I think it still lags Blackrock by a bit.

What I have not seen is if the amount in vanguard held accounts, as opposed in their funds, has had similar growth. Probably, those are pretty highly correlated, but I am not sure about that, with advent of free ETF trading everywhere.
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by dbr »

marcopolo wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 4:47 pm
Rajsx wrote: Thu Nov 04, 2021 2:37 pm I finally just got done speaking with my new Flagship Select Rep, who sounded young & a fine gentleman. He apologized for not showing up & the glitch with our earlier appointment. He was interested in knowing my near plans/transactions at Vanguard & how he could help in anyway.
When asked upon, I gave him my frank & honest feedback about my experience working with Vanguard Website, its customer service, & the general sentiment at Bogleheads.
May be Vanguard already does, but I asked him(or his team Members) to lurk on our Forum to find areas Vanguard could strengthen upon as our forum does have a sizable number of Index oriented Vanguard investors, along with those from Fidelity, Schwab & other Brokers.

I personally have been with Vanguard for around 30 yrs, I think the recent massive growth in the assets at Vanguard has been good but not without its hiccups. They have been trying to monetize the growth with the PAS(0.3%) as a source of income as they can not go higher on the expenses ratios of their funds as Fidelity & Schwab now have lower expense ratios.

Servicing these many clients with the recent growth costs money & well trained people & I think some where in there lies the problem/answer.

Still it needs to be said, I believe Vanguard has assets of around 8 trillion, the largest Broker on the Planet & it is not by an accident. We all see the value, at least I see a reason to be with Vanguard, apart from the issues in last few years. Mr Bogle showed the world what a Index Fund is & now the whole world follows the idea. PAS if not for me is a very viable option for my DW when I lose my marbles or pass away.

Anyway, a frustrating experience did finally turn out okay & I am over it now.
Glad things worked out OK.

I believe, but could be mistaken, that the $8B is assets under management, which I think refers to the money invested in their funds, and that has indeed grown a lot. But, I think it still lags Blackrock by a bit.

What I have not seen is if the amount in vanguard held accounts, as opposed in their funds, has had similar growth. Probably, those are pretty highly correlated, but I am not sure about that, with advent of free ETF trading everywhere.
I suppose it is possible there is more growth in assets held in Vanguard ETFs not brokered at Vanguard than there is increase in the number of people who have accounts at Vanguard and need service.
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LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by MattB »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

I had two positive experiences with Vanguard's customer service today. I called to consolidate the holdings in two taxable accounts into one. And I discovered that Vanguard's general customer service can move mutual funds but not ETFs.

The wait time for my first call wasn't long. The customer service rep I spoke with was polite, helpful, and assured me that he should be able to help with my request (to consolidate two accounts holding Vanguard's total market etf (VTI) into one). Then he realized I was trying to transfer an ETF, laughed, and explained he would have to transfer me to a different customer service representative because he was only allowed to help people with mutual funds.

The wait time for my second call wasn't long either. The customer service rep I spoke with was polite, helpful, and was able to process my request to consolidate two accounts holding VTI into one. And the whole episode took no more than 10 minutes.

In retrospect:
  • Result: Yay for Vanguard's customer service representatives. Two calls, one problem solved, less than 10 minutes.
  • Actionable: People trying to move ETFs need to call the stock trading desk; (as opposed to the mutual fund group).
  • Funny: Vanguard might consider empowering their customer service reps to transact ETFs and mutual funds. I believe that VTI and VTSAX are different share classes of the same fund. Some customer service reps can only transact mutual fund share classes; while others can only transact stocks and ETFs. And even my first customer service rep laughed at how odd it is that he can't transact both.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by alex_686 »

MattB wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:14 pm Funny: Vanguard might consider empowering their customer service reps to transact ETFs and mutual funds. I believe that VTI and VTSAX are different share classes of the same fund. Some customer service reps can only transact mutual fund share classes; while others can only transact stocks and ETFs. And even my first customer service rep laughed at how odd it is that he can't transact both. [/list]
I am going to guess it has to do with securities licensing. You need a lower-level license to work with mutual funds, a higher-level one to work with everything else.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by MattB »

alex_686 wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:20 pm
MattB wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 5:14 pm Funny: Vanguard might consider empowering their customer service reps to transact ETFs and mutual funds. I believe that VTI and VTSAX are different share classes of the same fund. Some customer service reps can only transact mutual fund share classes; while others can only transact stocks and ETFs. And even my first customer service rep laughed at how odd it is that he can't transact both. [/list]
I am going to guess it has to do with securities licensing. You need a lower-level license to work with mutual funds, a higher-level one to work with everything else.
Makes sense in that way. I suspect there was some sort of reason behind it. But the reasons, whatever it is, wasn't obvious to either of the two customer service representatives I spoke with.

Either way, I was glad Vanguard's customer service was helpful today.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by sycamore »

By any chance did the representatives suggest that you could have done it online? Not in a mean way, but to "nudge" investors to be more DIY. In various places I use to work, CSRs were sometimes suggested to suggest/hint that "oh you can also do this online if you search for blah blah in the forms section". This was done to decrease CSR costs I think.

In your case, I'm not even sure that one can consolidate accounts with an online form, but was just wondering anyway.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by riverant »

I wonder if they did something about hold times. I had one off reasons to call twice this past week and the reps picked up within 30 seconds of hold time.

I’ve also had the issue of the first rep trying to help with something (a transfer in this case) but then realizing they had to transfer me. 50% of the time another level 1 rep picks up but in this case, I ran out of time and hung up. To their credit the rep called me back multiple times that afternoon to resolve my issue.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by rkhusky »

sycamore wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:29 pm By any chance did the representatives suggest that you could have done it online? Not in a mean way, but to "nudge" investors to be more DIY. In various places I use to work, CSRs were sometimes suggested to suggest/hint that "oh you can also do this online if you search for blah blah in the forms section". This was done to decrease CSR costs I think.

In your case, I'm not even sure that one can consolidate accounts with an online form, but was just wondering anyway.
I presume consolidating in this case means doing so without creating a taxable event, which is unlikely to be accomplished online. If you don't care about the tax aspect, you can easily sell from one of your accounts and purchase in one of your other accounts online.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by Kookaburra »

So which Vanguard department or phone number do you request to help convert a Vanguard mutual fund to its ETF counterpart?
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by hap_ca »

rkhusky wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:14 pm
sycamore wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:29 pm By any chance did the representatives suggest that you could have done it online? Not in a mean way, but to "nudge" investors to be more DIY. In various places I use to work, CSRs were sometimes suggested to suggest/hint that "oh you can also do this online if you search for blah blah in the forms section". This was done to decrease CSR costs I think.

In your case, I'm not even sure that one can consolidate accounts with an online form, but was just wondering anyway.
I presume consolidating in this case means doing so without creating a taxable event, which is unlikely to be accomplished online. If you don't care about the tax aspect, you can easily sell from one of your accounts and purchase in one of your other accounts online.
At Fidelity you can transfer securities between accounts online without selling so it’s definitely possible. No involvement with customer service needed
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by MattB »

sycamore wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 6:29 pm By any chance did the representatives suggest that you could have done it online? Not in a mean way, but to "nudge" investors to be more DIY. In various places I use to work, CSRs were sometimes suggested to suggest/hint that "oh you can also do this online if you search for blah blah in the forms section". This was done to decrease CSR costs I think.

In your case, I'm not even sure that one can consolidate accounts with an online form, but was just wondering anyway.
Yes and no.

The first representative I spoke with was disappointed to discover that he couldn't move ETFs between accounts. He suggested that he might be able to walk me through how I could do online (so he didn't have to send me through another phone tree). He ultimately concluded that there was no way for me to affect the transfer (so I had to be transferred). But he did show me how I could close the accounts online before he transferred me.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by MattB »

rkhusky wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:14 pm I presume consolidating in this case means doing so without creating a taxable event, which is unlikely to be accomplished online. If you don't care about the tax aspect, you can easily sell from one of your accounts and purchase in one of your other accounts online.
You presume correctly. The goal was to consolidate holdings without selling anything.
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged MattB's thread into the ongoing discussion.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by stan1 »

Kookaburra wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:17 pm So which Vanguard department or phone number do you request to help convert a Vanguard mutual fund to its ETF counterpart?
Call your primary phone number and tell the person who answers that you want to convert a mutual fund to an ETF. You'll be transferred to the right place. There's no way to direct dial the right desk without going through the Tier 1 call center. Exception might be for those who still have a Flagship rep or relationship manager then you'd contact that person if you wanted to.
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Re: LOL @ Vanguard [customer service limitations]

Post by anon_investor »

Kookaburra wrote: Wed Dec 08, 2021 9:17 pm So which Vanguard department or phone number do you request to help convert a Vanguard mutual fund to its ETF counterpart?
When you call the main Vanguard number, you will be read a menu of options, select the one for Trading. They will be able to help you with the MF to ETF conversion.
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Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Orthodoc1. »

[Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

My wife tried to open a new fund for her Individual 401k. They had a RPO lock on account which said mail was returned from post office. We don't receive mail delivery at home. We are considered rural and do not have local mail delivery so we have a post office box. After much confusion, we realized that someone at Vanguard changed our mailing address to the physical address. Website said to call. My wife called at 8am and spoke to someone who had such a thick accent that she could hardly understand the person. They said they would correct it and send an email. The email said to open website and verify address however, the site said that she was not authorized to make the change or verify. Since my wife was now at work, I called since I am an authorized agent and had another rep on the phone whom I could hardly understand and it sounded as if they were in an echo chamber. This person said they must mail a form for change of address and go have it notarized and send back, despite my wife never changing the address. I asked to speak to someone else and they said they have the proper mailing address on file and don't know why it was sent to the improper address . She transferred me to someone else who was supposed to add the new fund to the account. He was rude and said my wife must call and ask for a retirement specialist because "they have more lattitude" for changes over the phone. He said that authorized agents have limited access. Hours later and after we were both speaking to at least 5 reps, she called on the way home from work and got one who said they could change the address in 2 days and there is no reason that it could not be corrected after speaking to me since I am an authorized agent on the account. She tried to call them during her lunch hour and received a " 2 hour hold" message on the phone so she gave up. I was on the phone for about 2 hours to no avail. Very frustrating. I have been a customer for more than 20 years
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Weathering »

I believe Vanguard’s secure messages have been handled by an outsourced call center for at least two years. Maybe they progressed to the phone service also.

The reason I believe the secured messaging has been outsourced is because they aren’t very helpful and then tell me to call in. So I don’t believe they have account access or at least any contacts with Vanguard the way the phone service always contacts other departments to solve my issues. It is too bad because I would rather use the secure message system than a phone call to address issues. Secure messages have a trail, so I can look back on them later. It’s also easier to send a message and then wait a few days rather than wait on hold on the phone.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by CyclingDuo »

Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by NAVigator »

CyclingDuo wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:16 pm Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
I agree. Throughout my career ad now in retirement I often encounter multiple languages, yet they negotiate in English as well. I always have to admire that because they know at least one more language than I do! :happy
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by stan1 »

This will be controversial, but I do wish Vanguard would offer a pay per use service (say $50-100) to expedite handling a problem. I know some would never pay it out of principle, but I'd view it the same as paying extra for an assigned aisle seat on a plane. I'd rather not pay and remember when I didn't have to pay extra, but would do so for convenience.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Makefile »

stan1 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:59 pm This will be controversial, but I do wish Vanguard would offer a pay per use service (say $50-100) to expedite handling a problem. I know some would never pay it out of principle, but I'd view it the same as paying extra for an assigned aisle seat on a plane. I'd rather not pay and remember when I didn't have to pay extra, but would do so for convenience.
Heh. I thought about this. 1-900 numbers were once used for things like tech support before they got their uh... other reputation. What if it were $2.95/minute but provided 1980s level brokerage customer service: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bwlNUpFCHTE
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Wiggums »

Orthodoc1. wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:04 pm My wife tried to open a new fund for her Individual 401k. They had a RPO lock on account which said mail was returned from post office. We don't receive mail delivery at home. We are considered rural and do not have local mail delivery so we have a post office box. After much confusion, we realized that someone at Vanguard changed our mailing address to the physical address. Website said to call. My wife called at 8am and spoke to someone who had such a thick accent that she could hardly understand the person. They said they would correct it and send an email. The email said to open website and verify address however, the site said that she was not authorized to make the change or verify. Since my wife was now at work, I called since I am an authorized agent and had another rep on the phone whom I could hardly understand and it sounded as if they were in an echo chamber. This person said they must mail a form for change of address and go have it notarized and send back, despite my wife never changing the address. I asked to speak to someone else and they said they have the proper mailing address on file and don't know why it was sent to the improper address . She transferred me to someone else who was supposed to add the new fund to the account. He was rude and said my wife must call and ask for a retirement specialist because "they have more lattitude" for changes over the phone. He said that authorized agents have limited access. Hours later and after we were both speaking to at least 5 reps, she called on the way home from work and got one who said they could change the address in 2 days and there is no reason that it could not be corrected after speaking to me since I am an authorized agent on the account. She tried to call them during her lunch hour and received a " 2 hour hold" message on the phone so she gave up. I was on the phone for about 2 hours to no avail. Very frustrating. I have been a customer for more than 20 years
Sorry for your frustration. I am not sure how a forum member can assist you with the address change.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by ResearchMed »

CyclingDuo wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:16 pm Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
Not just with Vanguard... but I've sometimes had luck if I mention that the connection isn't good and I'm having a LOT of difficulty understanding.
I might add something like, "... is there a way you could put the microphone in a different position?" or such.

That does help sometimes, but not always.
It also might help the call center rep feel less defensive, but I'm not sure if that happens or not.
I suspect that when this leads to better comprehension (on my part) it might be because they do adjust the mic and they might also try to speak a bit more clearly or maybe just more slowly, Whatever, it sometimes "works".

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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by livesoft »

This won't help you, but this week I deposited my 401(k) contribution for the year. I made a lunch date with a friend at a very nice restaurant next to the TDAmeritrade office and dropped my check off without any issues, but if there had been any issues I am sure I could have had it all taken care of in person. My point is a brokerage with a local office may have less chance of being outsourced though there is still a possibility of that happening.

Hmmm, that suggests all the threads where people are asking what city to move to should see what brokerages have local offices in the list of their choices.
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Re: Vanguard Customer Service 2021

Post by LadyGeek »

I merged Orthodoc1.'s thread into the ongoing discussion. The combined thread is in the Investing - Theory, News & General forum (general discussion).
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

CyclingDuo wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:16 pm Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
I'm not buying the "America is a melting pot" explanation. I know for a fact that Chase outsources credit card phone calls other than their Sapphire cards. The outsourcing is to a foreign country on the other side of the world. You can tell immediately by the "echo chamber" sound and by the accents of the customer service reps. Vanguard may very well be following Chase's example.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by nalor511 »

stan1 wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:59 pm This will be controversial, but I do wish Vanguard would offer a pay per use service (say $50-100) to expedite handling a problem. I know some would never pay it out of principle, but I'd view it the same as paying extra for an assigned aisle seat on a plane. I'd rather not pay and remember when I didn't have to pay extra, but would do so for convenience.
I get$50 level service at other brokers without paying anything. For now at least.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Makefile »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:18 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:16 pm Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
I'm not buying the "America is a melting pot" explanation. I know for a fact that Chase outsources credit card phone calls other than their Sapphire cards. The outsourcing is to a foreign country on the other side of the world. You can tell immediately by the "echo chamber" sound and by the accents of the customer service reps. Vanguard may very well be following Chase's example.
I have no evidence for this other than knowing Vanguard is in cost-cutting mode, but I've wondered if the mail provider change to El Paso, TX might involve taking the mail over to Mexico for processing...
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by Da5id »

Orthodoc1. wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:04 pm [Thread merged into here --admin LadyGeek]

My wife tried to open a new fund for her Individual 401k. They had a RPO lock on account which said mail was returned from post office. We don't receive mail delivery at home. We are considered rural and do not have local mail delivery so we have a post office box. After much confusion, we realized that someone at Vanguard changed our mailing address to the physical address. Website said to call. My wife called at 8am and spoke to someone who had such a thick accent that she could hardly understand the person. They said they would correct it and send an email. The email said to open website and verify address however, the site said that she was not authorized to make the change or verify. Since my wife was now at work, I called since I am an authorized agent and had another rep on the phone whom I could hardly understand and it sounded as if they were in an echo chamber. This person said they must mail a form for change of address and go have it notarized and send back, despite my wife never changing the address. I asked to speak to someone else and they said they have the proper mailing address on file and don't know why it was sent to the improper address . She transferred me to someone else who was supposed to add the new fund to the account. He was rude and said my wife must call and ask for a retirement specialist because "they have more lattitude" for changes over the phone. He said that authorized agents have limited access. Hours later and after we were both speaking to at least 5 reps, she called on the way home from work and got one who said they could change the address in 2 days and there is no reason that it could not be corrected after speaking to me since I am an authorized agent on the account. She tried to call them during her lunch hour and received a " 2 hour hold" message on the phone so she gave up. I was on the phone for about 2 hours to no avail. Very frustrating. I have been a customer for more than 20 years
I've had no problems with Vanguard phone service this year, but I know others (and now you) have. If I had the bad customer experience you "enjoyed", rather than just raise the issue in bogleheads I'd personally consider my options for moving to a new brokerage. Maybe the grass isn't really greener, but people have seemed happier recently with Fidelity and Schwab for example. Depending on your funds, moving in kind (perhaps after switching eligible mutual funds to ETFs) to a new custodian is not all THAT painful.
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Re: Is Vanguard Outsourcing Calls Out Of The Country?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Makefile wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 3:28 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 2:18 pm
CyclingDuo wrote: Wed Dec 22, 2021 1:16 pm Welcome to 2021 regarding staffing shortages which may result in long waits - no matter which company you try and call.

America is a huge melting pot with many accents, dialects, as well as remote workers who may or may not always have the best headset and microphone or connection during your call.

Be patient, respectful, understanding - and hang in there. :beer :beer
I'm not buying the "America is a melting pot" explanation. I know for a fact that Chase outsources credit card phone calls other than their Sapphire cards. The outsourcing is to a foreign country on the other side of the world. You can tell immediately by the "echo chamber" sound and by the accents of the customer service reps. Vanguard may very well be following Chase's example.
I have no evidence for this other than knowing Vanguard is in cost-cutting mode, but I've wondered if the mail provider change to El Paso, TX might involve taking the mail over to Mexico for processing...
Let's not beat around the bush. I'm thinking India. That's where Chase and other US firms have gone. Chase also has some specialized functions that have been outsourced to the Philippines.
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