Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

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invest2bfree
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Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

I have question between two active funds-

If I want portion of my funds in active and if I am given two option what would you prefer?

One is 100% vwelx Wellington and another 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)


From 2005 to 2021 comparison shows that vdigx\vbtlx combination had similar performance to wellington with same returns and far lower draw downs. It also bet the balanced fund. Am I missing anything.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX


From 2011 to 2021 the Same. Similar performance but far lower draw downs.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
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MIretired
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
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invest2bfree
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
True. I didn't remember that date: 2002.
But I'll add another aside: I wouldn't go that active, just in case.
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invest2bfree
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
True. I didn't remember that date: 2002.
But I'll add another aside: I wouldn't go that active, just in case.
Okay thanks. To get wellington admiral shares you need to be in Vanguard which is bummer for me since this is 401k and it is in fidelity.
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MIretired
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

Also, you know, Wellngtn has more indiv. Securities than vdigx.

And I can't figure if vdigx was just luck in 2008.
eg: Energy, VLE, looks like good bet right now. But that is market timing.
Don't know vdigx's secret sauce, so would just have to trust them.
Last edited by MIretired on Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:03 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by anon_investor »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:52 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
True. I didn't remember that date: 2002.
But I'll add another aside: I wouldn't go that active, just in case.
Okay thanks. To get wellington admiral shares you need to be in Vanguard which is bummer for me since this is 401k and it is in fidelity.
If you have brokerage link, should do 65% VIG/35% BIV, that will get you closer to Wellington. Plus commission free at Fidelity.
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invest2bfree
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:55 am Also, you know, Wellngtn has more indiv. Securities than vdigx.

And I can't figure if vdigx was just luck in 2008.
VDIGX repeated the similar feat in 2020 sell off . 4% lower drawdown than vwelx. Half the drawdown than the Market. Very impressed by VDIGX.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:02 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:52 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:23 am Probably Wellington. I'm in retirement. Look at PV with 55$/mo wd.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
I guess Sharp ratio has to be taken in context of cagr.
15/85 might have best Sharp ratio, but not best SWR Max.
VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
True. I didn't remember that date: 2002.
But I'll add another aside: I wouldn't go that active, just in case.
Okay thanks. To get wellington admiral shares you need to be in Vanguard which is bummer for me since this is 401k and it is in fidelity.
If you have brokerage link, should do 65% VIG/35% BIV, that will get you closer to Wellington. Plus commission free at Fidelity.
Thanks, Iam looking for an active fund and VIG is not.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by anon_investor »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:07 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:02 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:52 am
MIretired wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:39 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 10:33 am

VDIGX went through a change in 2002 conversion from a utilities fund to the active fund so I would not go back to 2001.

I did the change to 2005 both vwelx and vdigx\vbtlx are the same.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
True. I didn't remember that date: 2002.
But I'll add another aside: I wouldn't go that active, just in case.
Okay thanks. To get wellington admiral shares you need to be in Vanguard which is bummer for me since this is 401k and it is in fidelity.
If you have brokerage link, should do 65% VIG/35% BIV, that will get you closer to Wellington. Plus commission free at Fidelity.
Thanks, Iam looking for an active fund and VIG is not.
Okay, it is the passive equivalent to VDIGX, it uses screens, commonly referred to as a "smart beta" fund. I own it.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by Nowizard »

We use two active funds based on their history and belief it provides another form of diversification. Though not the focus of this discussion, there is significant discussion about the arguable concept that active management is more desired with bonds than stocks in a recent Kiplinger article. One of our two active funds is Wellington, and we feel it meets our purposes quite well. Evaluation of your personal circumstances is always a key concern that goes beyond fund analysis but includes it. In other words there are numerous excellent choices that are not excellent for a specific individual.

Tim
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

Didn't notice 2020.
Too busy looking for bottom.

Did you compare anon's with vdigx/vbilx (invest grade bnds?)

Eta: also, I was probably wrong on 15/85 has best Sharpe ratio. Higher at 30/70?
Last edited by MIretired on Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:20 am, edited 1 time in total.
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invest2bfree
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

Nowizard wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 11:12 am We use two active funds based on their history and belief it provides another form of diversification. Though not the focus of this discussion, there is significant discussion about the arguable concept that active management is more desired with bonds than stocks in a recent Kiplinger article. One of our two active funds is Wellington, and we feel it meets our purposes quite well. Evaluation of your personal circumstances is always a key concern that goes beyond fund analysis but includes it. In other words there are numerous excellent choices that are not excellent for a specific individual.

Tim
What is the other one if you dont mind me asking?
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MIretired
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

Dan Kilbride will leave vdigx next year?

But, all in all, I like it, but only 50 equities. That can be bad or good. So you have to trust and--stay the course, until?

All equities are a bit of a can't see gamble. So.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by jeffyscott »

I think the bond component of Wellington may be more like intermediate investment grade (VFIDX) than the bond index. Maybe compare 65% VDIGX and 35% VFIDX to Wellington?
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by sycamore »

jeffyscott wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 12:45 pm I think the bond component of Wellington may be more like intermediate investment grade (VFIDX) than the bond index. Maybe compare 65% VDIGX and 35% VFIDX to Wellington?
That's a good point. According to the Wellington strategy and policy "The remaining 30% to 40% of fund assets are invested mainly in investment-grade corporate bonds, with some exposure to U.S. Treasury and government agency bonds, as well as mortgage-backed securities."

Its fixed income is about 25-30% in Treasury/agency and MBS.

By contrast, Total Bond Market is about 65% in Treasury/agency and MBS.

VFIDX currently has little exposure to Treasury/agency and MBS (under 10% total).
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by sycamore »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:57 am I have question between two active funds-

If I want portion of my funds in active and if I am given two option what would you prefer?

One is 100% vwelx Wellington and another 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)
If I had to choose, I'd pick Wellington. It holds more stocks than VDIGX (70 vs 50) and just slightly more international stocks (7% vs 5%).
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 9:57 am From 2005 to 2021 comparison shows that vdigx\vbtlx combination had similar performance to wellington with same returns and far lower draw downs. It also bet the balanced fund. Am I missing anything.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... bol4=FBALX
One thing to consider is the type of bond fund. Try using an all Treasury bond fund in place of Total Bond It had slightly more growth and even less drawdown.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by 000 »

In theory I think active management on the bond side is more defensible than in large cap stocks, but not sure at current low rates.

I think I would choose a different active fund or none at all but between just these two I'd probably go with the Wellington. Dividend Growth seems like a strange concept to me.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by Mike Scott »

65/35 beating the 60/40 Balanced Fund is not surprising. In the real world, there is probably not a lot of difference among any of these choices. I do own some Wellington and Wellesely for their low cost active management. I would go for VTSAX instead of VDIGX but there are certainly worse choices in a tax advantaged account.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

000 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 5:05 pm In theory I think active management on the bond side is more defensible than in large cap stocks, but not sure at current low rates.

I think I would choose a different active fund or none at all but between just these two I'd probably go with the Wellington. Dividend Growth seems like a strange concept to me.
Do you have any other active funds. I already hold VT in my taxable. I want to complement it with a active mutual fund.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by 000 »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:38 pm Do you have any other active funds. I already hold VT in my taxable. I want to complement it with a active mutual fund.
I currently own no broad active funds however I look favorably upon all of Vanguard's active bond funds. For active equity funds I find Vanguard Global Equity (VHGEX) interesting because the managers can invest globally and the fund does not seem to have reached asset bloat yet.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by sycamore »

Speaking of taxable, I would not hold either Wellington or Dividend Growth in taxable. They sometimes have rather hefty cap gains distributions to go along with their dividend distributions. So those funds are better suited in tax-deferred or tax-free accounts.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by willthrill81 »

Despite John Bogle being the father of index funds, he kept a sizable portion of his wealth in Wellington for many years. He didn't seem to mind active investing if the costs were low, and that's certainly true of Wellington. The ER for the admiral version of the fund is only 16 basis points.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

000 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:48 pm
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:38 pm Do you have any other active funds. I already hold VT in my taxable. I want to complement it with a active mutual fund.
I currently own no broad active funds however I look favorably upon all of Vanguard's active bond funds. For active equity funds I find Vanguard Global Equity (VHGEX) interesting because the managers can invest globally and the fund does not seem to have reached asset bloat yet.
Thanks, VHGEX first time hearing it but the fund looks like a winner.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

sycamore wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:52 pm Speaking of taxable, I would not hold either Wellington or Dividend Growth in taxable. They sometimes have rather hefty cap gains distributions to go along with their dividend distributions. So those funds are better suited in tax-deferred or tax-free accounts.
This for my 401k not for taxable.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

Thanks everyone for their feedback, I choose VDIGX and Iam going to pair it with VFITX OR VGIT.

The reason for choosing vdigx is the lowest amount drawdowns.

It beats vwelx and the balanced fund handsomely. This is the low volatility part of my portfolio.

Starting 2005 only a 23% drawdown same as Wellsey during 2007-2009-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100

Starting 2019 Covid was just a blip down only 9%-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by Johnathon Livingston »

Wellington. The less I have to touch it (e.g. rebalancing), the better. Plus, with a name like Wellington…
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by quattro73 »

invest2bfree wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:01 pm Thanks everyone for their feedback, I choose VDIGX and Iam going to pair it with VFITX OR VGIT.

The reason for choosing vdigx is the lowest amount drawdowns.

It beats vwelx and the balanced fund handsomely. This is the low volatility part of my portfolio.

Starting 2005 only a 23% drawdown same as Wellsey during 2007-2009-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100

Starting 2019 Covid was just a blip down only 9%-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100
Drop it to 55/25 and throw a 20% splash of GLD in there and you are “golden”….for that time period. No pun intended….maybe.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

quattro73 wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 7:58 pm
invest2bfree wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 5:01 pm Thanks everyone for their feedback, I choose VDIGX and Iam going to pair it with VFITX OR VGIT.

The reason for choosing vdigx is the lowest amount drawdowns.

It beats vwelx and the balanced fund handsomely. This is the low volatility part of my portfolio.

Starting 2005 only a 23% drawdown same as Wellsey during 2007-2009-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100

Starting 2019 Covid was just a blip down only 9%-

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion3_2=100
Drop it to 55/25 and throw a 20% splash of GLD in there and you are “golden”….for that time period. No pun intended….maybe.
Gold is too financialized currently and is suffering the same fate as commodities.

I have 18% in small cap value which I think can take place of Gold.


I
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by MIretired »

I think I like this vdigx/vbilx as a core; maybe diversify the stocks some for me; scv good-- if this is any consolation (meaning I'm at least on board with it.)
Looks like you did some homework. The only faangm stks it has is m*soft.
I always liked the idea; just couldn't bring myself to go all in.
Yea, and as far as a retired person, the Sharpe ratio vs cagr will surely depend on whether a bull market or sideways/bear, for SWR Max.
Looks like it's the vbtlx treasuries is what pulls it through for drawdown insurance.
Hope it works out for you.
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by invest2bfree »

invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:15 pm
000 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:48 pm
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:38 pm Do you have any other active funds. I already hold VT in my taxable. I want to complement it with a active mutual fund.
I currently own no broad active funds however I look favorably upon all of Vanguard's active bond funds. For active equity funds I find Vanguard Global Equity (VHGEX) interesting because the managers can invest globally and the fund does not seem to have reached asset bloat yet.
Thanks, VHGEX first time hearing it but the fund looks like a winner.
Thanks for the tip.
Moved everything to just 2 funds, VT and VHGEX.
36% (IRA) - Individual LT Corporate Bonds , 33%(taxable) - schy, 33%(taxable) - SCHD Dividend Growth
000
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Re: Active Funds : 100% vwelx Wellington VS 65% VDIGX (Dividend Growth)\35% VBTLX(Total Bond)

Post by 000 »

invest2bfree wrote: Fri Oct 29, 2021 8:29 am
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:15 pm
000 wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:48 pm
invest2bfree wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 7:38 pm Do you have any other active funds. I already hold VT in my taxable. I want to complement it with a active mutual fund.
I currently own no broad active funds however I look favorably upon all of Vanguard's active bond funds. For active equity funds I find Vanguard Global Equity (VHGEX) interesting because the managers can invest globally and the fund does not seem to have reached asset bloat yet.
Thanks, VHGEX first time hearing it but the fund looks like a winner.
Thanks for the tip.
Moved everything to just 2 funds, VT and VHGEX.
I wish you good luck, invest2bfree!

:sharebeer
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