Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
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Last edited by rssll5 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
But OP is basically still in the starting blocks.
So I wouldn’t do this.
I’m 57 and still going. We didn’t start to appreciate the snowball effect of compounding interest on the portfolio until we were in our 50’s. I would never assume (read: “hope”) that a static portfolio amount at age 30 will be worth “X” at age 60 (or whenever). One’s peak earning years, once past, cannot typically be resurrected.
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
But OP is basically still in the starting blocks.
So I wouldn’t do this.
I’m 57 and still going. We didn’t start to appreciate the snowball effect of compounding interest on the portfolio until we were in our 50’s. I would never assume (read: “hope”) that a static portfolio amount at age 30 will be worth “X” at age 60 (or whenever). One’s peak earning years, once past, cannot typically be resurrected.
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I'm 37 and sort of doing Coast FIRE I suppose?
Assuming a real return of about 2-3% on my current retirement investments, I'll be where I need to be by age 67. Actually, I gotta finish up setting up my second investment property, and then between those retirement accounts, projected rent incomes, and projected social security, I SHOULD be fine for retirement.
But even after that I need to make the journey to 67. I'm DEFINITELY not quitting my job or changing my career anytime soon.
I need to save for when kids go to college, and I have extra goals and dreams I want to save up for unrelated to retirement. Also continuing to save up a "cushion" wouldn't be a bad idea.
I guess coast FIRE is just a way for me to feel like I've adequately mitigated retirement savings risks, and I can now start focusing on other financial needs and wants.
Assuming a real return of about 2-3% on my current retirement investments, I'll be where I need to be by age 67. Actually, I gotta finish up setting up my second investment property, and then between those retirement accounts, projected rent incomes, and projected social security, I SHOULD be fine for retirement.
But even after that I need to make the journey to 67. I'm DEFINITELY not quitting my job or changing my career anytime soon.
I need to save for when kids go to college, and I have extra goals and dreams I want to save up for unrelated to retirement. Also continuing to save up a "cushion" wouldn't be a bad idea.
I guess coast FIRE is just a way for me to feel like I've adequately mitigated retirement savings risks, and I can now start focusing on other financial needs and wants.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I thought about it, but the challenge is that I will reduce my future social security benefit, which is nice to have to mitigate poor investment performance in the future. I don't want to reduce my social security benefit because I can technically coast FIRE with my current savings. I also don't want to stop maxing out my 401k because of the tax benefit.
Instead, I like the idea of maxing out my social security contributions for another ten years, so that I can have a better social security benefit at 70. I have no idea yet how long I'll live, nor do I know how much my benefit can be potentially cut in the future. Of course, if social security benefits are cut by 25% in the future, that will likely have bad economic consequences. I expect that situation to be avoided.
Instead, I like the idea of maxing out my social security contributions for another ten years, so that I can have a better social security benefit at 70. I have no idea yet how long I'll live, nor do I know how much my benefit can be potentially cut in the future. Of course, if social security benefits are cut by 25% in the future, that will likely have bad economic consequences. I expect that situation to be avoided.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
It sounds like OP is talking about cutting back from significantly over SS cut off to close to the cut off, so this wouldn't be of any concern.rockstar wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:04 pm I thought about it, but the challenge is that I will reduce my future social security benefit, which is nice to have to mitigate poor investment performance in the future. I don't want to reduce my social security benefit because I can technically coast FIRE with my current savings. I also don't want to stop maxing out my 401k because of the tax benefit.
Instead, I like the idea of maxing out my social security contributions for another ten years, so that I can have a better social security benefit at 70. I have no idea yet how long I'll live, nor do I know how much my benefit can be potentially cut in the future. Of course, if social security benefits are cut by 25% in the future, that will likely have bad economic consequences. I expect that situation to be avoided.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I heartily endorse and support the idea; although I haven’t personally done it.
I could do it today; but I just don’t spend that much money. There is always some to be saved and invested.
I’d love to hear though from those that really have done it.
I could do it today; but I just don’t spend that much money. There is always some to be saved and invested.
I’d love to hear though from those that really have done it.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Personally have trouble wrapping my head around the first path. Namely someone who more or less has saving ingrained suddenly stops or ups their spending. It just tends to go against the nature of people who are good savers.
That said, have known people in the 2nd category. Just as a recent example, know someone who changed jobs recently and as part of the negotiation at the new job asked to go half time instead of full time. Their family recently had a new child and he wants to be around more to spend time with his kid.
Have been toying with the idea of going out on my own and contracting. Office politics can get kind of grating. Also being able to prioritize the kind of work I do really appeals to me. There is some tax efficiency that can be gained from contracting. Though the big thing is being able to claw back some of my time and reallocate it as I see fit.
That said, have known people in the 2nd category. Just as a recent example, know someone who changed jobs recently and as part of the negotiation at the new job asked to go half time instead of full time. Their family recently had a new child and he wants to be around more to spend time with his kid.
Have been toying with the idea of going out on my own and contracting. Office politics can get kind of grating. Also being able to prioritize the kind of work I do really appeals to me. There is some tax efficiency that can be gained from contracting. Though the big thing is being able to claw back some of my time and reallocate it as I see fit.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Technically I think I'm on the first path unless something changes my career plans. I'm actually planning to continue saving, just to achieve other goals, the three largest are charity, future college costs, and a cushion in case my retirement projections are off.tomsense76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:33 pm Personally have trouble wrapping my head around the first path. Namely someone who more or less has saving ingrained suddenly stops or ups their spending. It just tends to go against the nature of people who are good savers.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
If you’re spending $200k per year, you’ll need $5M. Not sure I’d think about stopping when you only have 1.5yr of expenses saved.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I am thinking of the same thing right now. Total comp 250k, single income, kids are 3 and 2, and I'm completely burnt out at 32. Our net worth is just shy of two commas. I currently have a formal offer from FAANG that would bump me up to 340k and require us to move back to the bay area, and I think I'm going to take it, but half of me wants to just quit and move to LCOL, take a sabbatical, and play with my kids for 3-4 years. The jobs will always be there.
It's a really tough decision, but the thing I've come to terms with is that these are both good options, and its first world problems for sure. Maybe don't stress too much, because whether you do or don't decide to coast FIRE, you'll likely be fine.
It's a really tough decision, but the thing I've come to terms with is that these are both good options, and its first world problems for sure. Maybe don't stress too much, because whether you do or don't decide to coast FIRE, you'll likely be fine.
Last edited by cogito on Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:16 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Coast FIRE seems to be perhaps the least realistic form of FIRE out there to me at least.
Why would you stop contributing to your portfolio? If you maintained the same income, then you're just increasing your spending, and that can easily turn into a recipe for disaster for someone who wants to retire early. Therefore, it would only make some sense to me if you stop contributing because your income went down. I suppose that's possible for someone whose income was involuntarily reduced for whatever reason or if someone wanted to quit a bad high-paying job for a better lower-paying job to keep working at until they became FI. If the person kept working the bad but high-paying job and contributed that much more to their portfolio, they could retire that much sooner.
All in all, this seems more like a way to 'de-stress' (i.e., knowing that you could work for significantly less than you currently are and still reach FI in a reasonable time frame) than an actual plan for most.
To the OP, planning to not contribute to your portfolio for 35 years just sounds like a bad idea to me. I believe that it's better from a behavioral perspective to not spend everything that you earn for such a lengthy period of time. Plus, you might not get the returns you're planning on. Over the last 20+ years, stocks have not returned 7% real, more like 5%. And, you might encounter bumps along the way that result in you making some premature withdrawals.
I'm all for you improving your family life and can sympathize with your burnout at work. But don't let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction.
Why would you stop contributing to your portfolio? If you maintained the same income, then you're just increasing your spending, and that can easily turn into a recipe for disaster for someone who wants to retire early. Therefore, it would only make some sense to me if you stop contributing because your income went down. I suppose that's possible for someone whose income was involuntarily reduced for whatever reason or if someone wanted to quit a bad high-paying job for a better lower-paying job to keep working at until they became FI. If the person kept working the bad but high-paying job and contributed that much more to their portfolio, they could retire that much sooner.
All in all, this seems more like a way to 'de-stress' (i.e., knowing that you could work for significantly less than you currently are and still reach FI in a reasonable time frame) than an actual plan for most.
To the OP, planning to not contribute to your portfolio for 35 years just sounds like a bad idea to me. I believe that it's better from a behavioral perspective to not spend everything that you earn for such a lengthy period of time. Plus, you might not get the returns you're planning on. Over the last 20+ years, stocks have not returned 7% real, more like 5%. And, you might encounter bumps along the way that result in you making some premature withdrawals.
I'm all for you improving your family life and can sympathize with your burnout at work. But don't let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction.
Last edited by willthrill81 on Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:38 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I like a lot of the concepts you mention in your post such as making time for things that are important to you like your family and interests, the incredible power of compounding, and being able to coast once you’re in a position to do so. You’re off to an outstanding start in life by having a high income and $300k saved already.
All that being said, your underlying assumptions on what happens to that $300k you’ve saved up if you don’t save anything further sort of assumes all goes right for the next several decades. Let’s change the situation a bit and say the market returns 5% (real rate of return) instead of 7%. You make it to 50 and some bad event happens. It could be a job loss, a disability, whatever. Your portfolio balance would only be around $800k. Next, assume that shortly after the personal bad event, the economy begins a downturn. Now you’re down to $500k. That’s not nearly enough to live on yet alone help put your 3 kids through college/graduate school. My point is just that a lot of unexpected things can happen when you have a long time ahead of you. So continue being a good saver for a while longer and remain flexible in case things don’t turn out as you’d hoped.
The way I look at it, life is a marathon and not a sprint. It’s important to maintain balance and save a decent percentage while also making time for your family. This is not always simple but it is often possible. It involves making a series of deliberate life choices.
I can relate to your priorities, by the way. My family puts a premium on time rather than money. Averaged out over the year, my wife (stay-at-home parent) and I (public school teacher) work a combined 30 hours per week between the two of us. Our lives are low-stress compared to that of many people we know.
My plan is to be able to coastFIRE (not sure I’ll do it but want to keep it open as an option) in 9 years, at age 55, by going down to 3 days a week (so instead of working 180 days a year, it would be more like 100 or so) and completely stop saving at that point (we currently save around half of my income). I’ve still got a few more years, though, so we’ll see what happens. I enjoy working so I’m not counting down the years.
If you're feeling "completely burnt out" at age 30, you may need to think about what changes you need to make so that you no longer feel this way. You don't have nearly enough saved at this stage but it also doesn't sound like your current path is sustainable. It's great that you're doing a lot of reflection, as that's a good starting point. What you need is a plan.
Wish you the best and enjoy time with your family.
All that being said, your underlying assumptions on what happens to that $300k you’ve saved up if you don’t save anything further sort of assumes all goes right for the next several decades. Let’s change the situation a bit and say the market returns 5% (real rate of return) instead of 7%. You make it to 50 and some bad event happens. It could be a job loss, a disability, whatever. Your portfolio balance would only be around $800k. Next, assume that shortly after the personal bad event, the economy begins a downturn. Now you’re down to $500k. That’s not nearly enough to live on yet alone help put your 3 kids through college/graduate school. My point is just that a lot of unexpected things can happen when you have a long time ahead of you. So continue being a good saver for a while longer and remain flexible in case things don’t turn out as you’d hoped.
The way I look at it, life is a marathon and not a sprint. It’s important to maintain balance and save a decent percentage while also making time for your family. This is not always simple but it is often possible. It involves making a series of deliberate life choices.
I can relate to your priorities, by the way. My family puts a premium on time rather than money. Averaged out over the year, my wife (stay-at-home parent) and I (public school teacher) work a combined 30 hours per week between the two of us. Our lives are low-stress compared to that of many people we know.
My plan is to be able to coastFIRE (not sure I’ll do it but want to keep it open as an option) in 9 years, at age 55, by going down to 3 days a week (so instead of working 180 days a year, it would be more like 100 or so) and completely stop saving at that point (we currently save around half of my income). I’ve still got a few more years, though, so we’ll see what happens. I enjoy working so I’m not counting down the years.
If you're feeling "completely burnt out" at age 30, you may need to think about what changes you need to make so that you no longer feel this way. You don't have nearly enough saved at this stage but it also doesn't sound like your current path is sustainable. It's great that you're doing a lot of reflection, as that's a good starting point. What you need is a plan.
Wish you the best and enjoy time with your family.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Stopping contributions 30 years from retirement age is a dicey proposition. You can run all simulations and that's fine but you're walking a very fine line. There's a lot that can happen in 30 years and there's no recourse to make up lost time. On one side you're fine and the other you're mostly reliant on Social Security.rssll5 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm I’ve gotta think that taking my foot off the gas and investing in being a great dad will be worth >$6M when I’m on my deathbed.. but I’m also (naturally) hesitant to actually take a big paycut and stopping our investments so soon.
Anyone pulled the trigger on “CoastFIRE” or planning to?
Some people wouldn't be comfortable with the risk. But I'm not you and don't know your situation.
I personally see CoastFIRE as a milestone, like joining the two comma club. But it's not an end goal for retirement planning.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I think there's a middle ground that you aren't considering and would make the most sense for you. You can take a paycut for a less stressful job while still continuing to contribute to your retirement but not maxing out all the accounts every year. You may even find once you're working a less stressful job that your brain works better and you're able to cut other meaningless costs from your budget.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I guess I am coastFIREing. My username is phase03 because I consider myself in phase 3 with phase 4 being full retirement. Phase 1 was my professional career in accounting. I did that as long as I could possibly tolerate until I was 43. Then I happily ditched the office for a full time physically intense truck driver/loader job. Now at 49 I am coasting by doing just enough of a food delivery gig to break even.
I saved quite a lot in phase 1 and a decent amount in phase 2. Unfortunately I was a typical paralysis by analysis saver for all those years and accumulated way too much uninvested cash. I just discovered Bogleheads a couple months ago and finally rectified that situation. My savings are currently 17x annual expenses but that would surely have been much higher if I discovered you all sooner. Oh well, I am very grateful I have done so now.
I saved quite a lot in phase 1 and a decent amount in phase 2. Unfortunately I was a typical paralysis by analysis saver for all those years and accumulated way too much uninvested cash. I just discovered Bogleheads a couple months ago and finally rectified that situation. My savings are currently 17x annual expenses but that would surely have been much higher if I discovered you all sooner. Oh well, I am very grateful I have done so now.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
We’ve reached CoastFIRE. $2M in investments at age 35. Annual spend $100k not including childcare.
What it’s allowed us to do is take risks with our careers, i.e. take jobs with lower upfront compensation but better culture, mission, long term prospects. We’re actually still saving money, but mostly for the tax benefits.
What it’s allowed us to do is take risks with our careers, i.e. take jobs with lower upfront compensation but better culture, mission, long term prospects. We’re actually still saving money, but mostly for the tax benefits.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I agree with Will. It sounds great in theory, but what job would pay you a salary worthwhile? Let alone a part time job that pays you a decent per hour rate.
Consulting or project management could work where you're able to work in chunks. 3 months on, 3 months off. But that's not quite the same as "coasting".
I also don't think #1 is a great idea. So you're going to save like a maniac to only let lifestyle creep make you need to save even more once you've grown accustomed to all that spending? I could be wrong on this one, but that's IMO.
I do believe in the four hour workweek idea though. I think it's perfectly achievable; perhaps not 4 hours, but you can certainly cut down the amount of time you need to spend at a business once you've built it up and have trusted employees in place.
Consulting or project management could work where you're able to work in chunks. 3 months on, 3 months off. But that's not quite the same as "coasting".
I also don't think #1 is a great idea. So you're going to save like a maniac to only let lifestyle creep make you need to save even more once you've grown accustomed to all that spending? I could be wrong on this one, but that's IMO.
I do believe in the four hour workweek idea though. I think it's perfectly achievable; perhaps not 4 hours, but you can certainly cut down the amount of time you need to spend at a business once you've built it up and have trusted employees in place.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
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Last edited by rssll5 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:07 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
and if you assume 25% return you will own a private jet.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
If you know in your gut you should be there for your family and take a pay cut...no brainer do it.
This forum is a bunch of people talking about efficiency in finances and it blends over into why you are even living life. The "smartest" decision does not equal the best life. I know lots of people who wait to do anything until later in life and I know its not for me.
You have put yourself in a good situation. Give yourself and your family the luxury of finding a better situation. You will still invest and move towards a better situation most likely for life.
We are "Coast Fire" but instead of not working now we are both pursuing our own businesses. These are starting to become profitable and it is a great relief. We feel like we can leave the corporate job and have more life and money making potential. But we are taking it one step at a time.
Good luck with whatever you do
This forum is a bunch of people talking about efficiency in finances and it blends over into why you are even living life. The "smartest" decision does not equal the best life. I know lots of people who wait to do anything until later in life and I know its not for me.
You have put yourself in a good situation. Give yourself and your family the luxury of finding a better situation. You will still invest and move towards a better situation most likely for life.
We are "Coast Fire" but instead of not working now we are both pursuing our own businesses. These are starting to become profitable and it is a great relief. We feel like we can leave the corporate job and have more life and money making potential. But we are taking it one step at a time.
Good luck with whatever you do
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Right saving for a variety of different goals I understand. Just spending instead of saving less so.Kinkajou82 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:50 pmTechnically I think I'm on the first path unless something changes my career plans. I'm actually planning to continue saving, just to achieve other goals, the three largest are charity, future college costs, and a cushion in case my retirement projections are off.tomsense76 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 9:33 pm Personally have trouble wrapping my head around the first path. Namely someone who more or less has saving ingrained suddenly stops or ups their spending. It just tends to go against the nature of people who are good savers.
"Anyone who claims to understand quantum theory is either lying or crazy" -- Richard Feynman
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
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Last edited by rssll5 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:09 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Burning out at 30 is pretty early. Is there something you could do besides continuing to work this job or taking a 3 year break? Is there a part time or work from home option? Maybe a different field or employer?
For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I would not stop contributing at 30, you can contribute less but that just raises your expenses and retirement age. I've always looked at coasting as someone with at least 15-20x and taking a less stressful job or going p/t in their 40s or 50s, not 30. Many diff ways/ options but 30 with young kids and $300k is not it.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
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Last edited by rssll5 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Interesting...I often think about doing this... What percent of a pay cut was the trucking job? Any regrets?phase03 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 pm Phase 1 was my professional career in accounting. I did that as long as I could possibly tolerate until I was 43. Then I happily ditched the office for a full time physically intense truck driver/loader job. Now at 49 I am coasting by doing just enough of a food delivery gig to break even.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
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Last edited by rssll5 on Wed Mar 30, 2022 9:10 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
This bears repeating (emphasis added).willthrill81 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:33 pm Coast FIRE seems to be perhaps the least realistic form of FIRE out there to me at least.
Why would you stop contributing to your portfolio? If you maintained the same income, then you're just increasing your spending, and that can easily turn into a recipe for disaster for someone who wants to retire early. Therefore, it would only make some sense to me if you stop contributing because your income went down. I suppose that's possible for someone whose income was involuntarily reduced for whatever reason or if someone wanted to quit a bad high-paying job for a better lower-paying job to keep working at until they became FI. If the person kept working the bad but high-paying job and contributed that much more to their portfolio, they could retire that much sooner.
All in all, this seems more like a way to 'de-stress' (i.e., knowing that you could work for significantly less than you currently are and still reach FI in a reasonable time frame) than an actual plan for most.
To the OP, planning to not contribute to your portfolio for 35 years just sounds like a bad idea to me. I believe that it's better from a behavioral perspective to not spend everything that you earn for such a lengthy period of time. Plus, you might not get the returns you're planning on. Over the last 20+ years, stocks have not returned 7% real, more like 5%. And, you might encounter bumps along the way that result in you making some premature withdrawals.
I'm all for you improving your family life and can sympathize with your burnout at work. But don't let the pendulum swing too far in the other direction.
It might sound fine to just let what you've (OP) accumulated at 30 grow until 65, but there are no guarantees, either on returns, or on your health/employment. For returns, the most famous example is Japan since 1990. You could be 60 and have a portfolio that has hardly grown, or not at all.
For health/employment, there's many examples of people who lost jobs and were unemployed for long stretches, or had health issues that didn't allow them to work. What if in ten or fifteen years you find yourself without a job and with a portfolio that won't support you long term? Whereas if you'd kept saving you would at least have the option of not working, and the breathing room of not needing to work.
I understand burnout. But I think you should find a solution (new job, sabbatical, etc) that allows you to keep earning and saving so that you keep your options open. "Too much" money is a much better problem to have than "too little."
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I went from $95,000 to $32,000. Needless to say it was very difficult to pull the trigger at the time. I was more than ready a few years before I did it but kept pressing on. I'm sure I'd still be at it today if I didn't have such a supportive and encouraging wife. We've always been on the same page when it comes to spending and understand that material things aren't what makes for a good life.Carguy85 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 amInteresting...I often think about doing this... What percent of a pay cut was the trucking job? Any regrets?phase03 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 pm Phase 1 was my professional career in accounting. I did that as long as I could possibly tolerate until I was 43. Then I happily ditched the office for a full time physically intense truck driver/loader job. Now at 49 I am coasting by doing just enough of a food delivery gig to break even.
So no regrets at all except for wishing I started investing sooner.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I've thought about staying in the same job, but spending my money instead of saving it.
I have no idea what I'd do with it. Buy a car? I have a newer model already. Buy a house? Inflated market. Go on expensive vacations - not happening now.
There's charity, I guess, but my estate is mostly going to charity already.
I have no idea what I'd do with it. Buy a car? I have a newer model already. Buy a house? Inflated market. Go on expensive vacations - not happening now.
There's charity, I guess, but my estate is mostly going to charity already.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
A number of years ago, I thought that the CoastFIRE path seemed appealing. More recently, I have reached the point where I could safely coast, with very conservative assumptions. The idea of scaling back significantly in the near term has, as I have gone along and it has become a more concrete financial possibility, become less and less appealing. As I become more senior, work has become more palatable, with more control over the direction of my career. When I look at the alternatives that would be much lower-earning, I do not think they would really be proportionately less stressful. I have approximately zero desire to stop working entirely while I am still in my 30s, have a young child, and my wife continues to work in a job that she loves. Continuing to work essentially allows me to completely eliminate the risk of a market that goes nowhere, or even has a complete loss of value. In sum, the closer I got to actually being able to CoastFIRE, the less appealing the various tradeoffs looked to pulling the trigger.
Global Market Portfolio + modest tilt towards volatility (80/20->60/40 as approach FI) + modest tilt away from exchange rate risk (80% global+20% U.S. stocks; currency-hedge bonds) + tax optimization
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I theoretically coast fired. I chose to move into a more rewarding but lower paid job. My plan was that I would just cover my expenses until early retirement and let my savings grow. Here's how that hasn't worked out:
1. It's damn hard to stop contributing to retirement accounts. So I kept contributing, although at a lower level. I put 10% of my income into my SEP-IRA and still contribute the maximum to my Roth IRA. Sometimes the Roth contribution has come from just moving savings from a taxable account, these days it is coming from income (mostly).
2. I initially went down to an income of $25k as I had figured I could live on that. But I was still drawing from savings for things like vacations and a new car. I had purposely packed my savings/emergency funds but it didn't feel sustainable to keep drawing from it. And it wasn't as much fun scrimping to live on $25k the rest of the time. You get used to some luxuries that are hard to give up, even for a Boglehead. Also, taking care of myself has become more expensive as I've aged, and it is nice to be able to afford to have a massage every now and then (or whatever). Lately I've been increasing my income by working harder, so I am not coasting (as in, relaxing) as much.
3. I am no longer as interested in retiring early because I like my job better. So now I keep thinking I am going to have too much in my retirement accounts, but hey, at least we'll be able to travel more and spend more on luxuries than we would have been able to do if I'd stuck with the minimum.
1. It's damn hard to stop contributing to retirement accounts. So I kept contributing, although at a lower level. I put 10% of my income into my SEP-IRA and still contribute the maximum to my Roth IRA. Sometimes the Roth contribution has come from just moving savings from a taxable account, these days it is coming from income (mostly).
2. I initially went down to an income of $25k as I had figured I could live on that. But I was still drawing from savings for things like vacations and a new car. I had purposely packed my savings/emergency funds but it didn't feel sustainable to keep drawing from it. And it wasn't as much fun scrimping to live on $25k the rest of the time. You get used to some luxuries that are hard to give up, even for a Boglehead. Also, taking care of myself has become more expensive as I've aged, and it is nice to be able to afford to have a massage every now and then (or whatever). Lately I've been increasing my income by working harder, so I am not coasting (as in, relaxing) as much.
3. I am no longer as interested in retiring early because I like my job better. So now I keep thinking I am going to have too much in my retirement accounts, but hey, at least we'll be able to travel more and spend more on luxuries than we would have been able to do if I'd stuck with the minimum.
Sarah
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I've thought about it.
But if I do, I'm not as likely to hit deca.
But if I do, I'm not as likely to hit deca.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I agree with this.59Gibson wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:23 am I would not stop contributing at 30, you can contribute less but that just raises your expenses and retirement age. I've always looked at coasting as someone with at least 15-20x and taking a less stressful job or going p/t in their 40s or 50s, not 30. Many diff ways/ options but 30 with young kids and $300k is not it.
We’re 38 and have ~25x in our 401ks, my wife recently left a job she didn’t like to focus on the house for a while so I guess we have semi Coasted.
The aspect of Coast that I like is taking a lower paying job and learning to live on less. Your $300k goes from being 3X to 5X if you drop to $60k from $100k and you have years to adjust and settle into the 60K versus being forced into it by a lack of savings. The side of Coast that just reduces saving to increase spending looks like a train wreck waiting to happen to me. You’re increasing your standard of living by spending more while reducing the chances of being able to fund it in the future by reducing your savings. This feels like getting used to champagne and only being able to afford Keystone in 20 years.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
CoastFIRE comes up from time to time and the general response is the same...it's a bad idea.
The only situation where it makes sense is when one's forced into CoastFIRE because they couldn't find alternatives (burned out and can't find another good job, for example).
The only situation where it makes sense is when one's forced into CoastFIRE because they couldn't find alternatives (burned out and can't find another good job, for example).
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
This is safe.CletusCaddy wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:12 pm We’ve reached CoastFIRE. $2M in investments at age 35. Annual spend $100k not including childcare.
What it’s allowed us to do is take risks with our careers, i.e. take jobs with lower upfront compensation but better culture, mission, long term prospects. We’re actually still saving money, but mostly for the tax benefits.
$300K? Not safe.
Arguably $2M is normal FIRE but not if you want to have a $100K spend rate…
With $185K base + options and bonuses you’ve saved about 1 years worth of income.
That implies a relatively high spending rate…
Gut it out a few more years and get to $1M then you can afford to downshift and risk a permanent loss of income.
When you get down to the nitty gritty numbers of CoastFIRE it’s similar to leanFIRE numbers for when pulling the trigger because you don’t want a leanFIRE lifestyle in retirement.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Spend only $7K/year (now $8738) and you too can FIRE after 5 years of work…One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Your not going to get a go from a conservative boglehead group who plans for the future being worse then anything we have seen in over 100 years. It may work out for you, but would you be able to tolerate it not?
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Agreed. If you burned out at 30, you need to find a different career.esqu1re wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:19 am Burning out at 30 is pretty early. Is there something you could do besides continuing to work this job or taking a 3 year break? Is there a part time or work from home option? Maybe a different field or employer?
For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I found a budget for you:nigel_ht wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 amSpend only $7K/year (now $8738) and you too can FIRE after 5 years of work…One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
https://www.cheaprvliving.com/
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Absolutely. 30 is very young. Finding a more fulfilling career/job is paramount at this point- not trying to stretch $300k for fire.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:03 pmAgreed. If you burned out at 30, you need to find a different career.esqu1re wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:19 am Burning out at 30 is pretty early. Is there something you could do besides continuing to work this job or taking a 3 year break? Is there a part time or work from home option? Maybe a different field or employer?
For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I found that on ERE, and I get adjusting for inflation, but I still don't know what a "Jacob" is, or what metrics are used?nigel_ht wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 amSpend only $7K/year (now $8738) and you too can FIRE after 5 years of work…One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
nigel_ht nailed it above (and thank you, nigel_ht)One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
This is how I see it:
1. Folks who are typically in their 20's and 30's (but many are older) who are checking out (but maybe, in contrast, they are really checking in to what is actually important in life) and living on impressively low budgets: ERE.
For the record, I completely admire those folks for a wide variety of reasons, including philosophy, ethics and morality. I'm not saying their financial decisions are prudent from my perspective, but they are more disciplined than I so my financial views are irrelevant. I admire people who swim upstream and reject consumerism. As a DIY'er, a lot of ERE appeals to me. To me, ERE is a philosophy, a way of life. I hold it in the highest regard. Could I do it? No.
2. Folks who are typically in their 30's and 40's (but many are younger or older) who are actually reasonably wealthy and then want to check out: MMM. MMM led me here.
For me, Peter was the "gateway drug" to financial independence, so I have nothing but praise for him as well. Reading MMM made "the light go on" for me.
3. Really smart financial people who share attributes of ERE and MMM but who are dialed in on financial matters particularly, but not exclusively: BH.
BH is like FIRE grad school with a financial focus and with aspects of both ERE and MMM.
I'm a BH by instinct only as I otherwise lack the financial IQ of everybody else here. I'm deeply indebted to the BH'ers, and I have nothing but a deep admiration and respect for my fellow travelers over at ERE and MMM as well. We are all on the same path. The only way out is forward.
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
I felt most burnt out in my 30s. I remember telling my mom that I was burnt out and she said "you're kind of young to be burnt out." I got a new job then on my own, and am much less burnt out in my 40s than my 30s.esqu1re wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:19 am Burning out at 30 is pretty early. Is there something you could do besides continuing to work this job or taking a 3 year break? Is there a part time or work from home option? Maybe a different field or employer?
For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
My opinion is for the OP to keep at it, and find a job that is lower stress. Being at the same place your whole career can be tough. A simple switch will do wonders, at the very least for a few years. You can definitely find a lower stress, lower paying job.
As for coast retiring, I've thought about it a lot but haven't done anything yet. I've reduced my hours at work a bit but not totally slacking like I'd like to be
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
His thing is that he retired on ~$8k annual expenses, but it has been a long time, so folks started adjusting for inflation to make comparisons.One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:23 pmI found that on ERE, and I get adjusting for inflation, but I still don't know what a "Jacob" is, or what metrics are used?nigel_ht wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 amSpend only $7K/year (now $8738) and you too can FIRE after 5 years of work…One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
- CyclingDuo
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
It all depends on your annual household spend. Obviously, your spend will taper off when the nest is empty. So you have to figure out your current spend with the 5 in your household and what it "could be" with only two of you many years from now.rssll5 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm I think everyone can conceptually understand the thought behind CoastFIRE - you accumulate enough assets early on that you can let the 8th wonder of the world do it’s thing while you prioritize things other than investing, namely:
1. Spending money that would have previously been invested on other things: giving, spending, investing in hobbies, etc..
OR
2. Moving to a more rewarding job that pays less but still covers your living expenses
But… has anyone here actually pulled the trigger and just stopped investing 10 or 20 years before retirement?
I’m 30, make 185k base (close to 300k with options and bonus) but I’m completely burnt out and want to be more “present” at home while my kids are still young (ages 2, 3, 4).
We have ~$300k invested today, and my wife currently stays home but will eventually return to work as ICU nurse.
If I assume we never invest another dollar (which won’t happen..) and assume an inflation adjusted 7% return, we’d be looking at $3.2M at 65. If we were to continue to max my 401k and the Roth’s, we’d be looking at $9.4M at 65.
I’ve gotta think that taking my foot off the gas and investing in being a great dad will be worth >$6M when I’m on my deathbed.. but I’m also (naturally) hesitant to actually take a big paycut and stopping our investments so soon.
Anyone pulled the trigger on “CoastFIRE” or planning to?
Since you mention that you won't let it happen regarding not continuing to invest, you should be in good shape by adding additional contributions through your working years - even if the majority of the "seed has been planted". You didn't mention if you live in a HCOL area or not, but if you pulled back to a lower stress/lower salary job and your wife starts working again after the little ones get more towards school age - it sounds like a good plan to reach all of your goals of family time, still saving, and "coasting". We certainly would recommend in your new career that both you and your spouse contribute at least enough to take advantage of any employer match for a 401k/403b plan as the bare minimum - even if your current investments were much higher than $300K.
The complete Coast FIRE guide is here: https://walletburst.com/coast-fire
Play with your numbers here:
https://walletburst.com/tools/coast-fire-calc/
CyclingDuo
"Save like a pessimist, invest like an optimist." - Morgan Housel |
"Pick a bushel, save a peck!" - Grandpa
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Aha! So, a "Jacob" is just ERE code for saying you are spending $7K/yr (e.g., 2.3 Jacobs would be $16.1K/yr)?WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:31 pmnigel_ht nailed it above (and thank you, nigel_ht)One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
What types of 'metrics' are associated with the term?
"Re-verify our range to target ... one ping only."
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Oh, Jacob Fisker is the dude that retired on $7K a year. So that’s where the $7K metric comes from.One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:23 pmI found that on ERE, and I get adjusting for inflation, but I still don't know what a "Jacob" is, or what metrics are used?nigel_ht wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:51 amSpend only $7K/year (now $8738) and you too can FIRE after 5 years of work…One Ping wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:36 amI poked around on ERE and could find out what the heck "Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics" are.WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:40 pm I read ERE and MMM. I totally get the sentiments and desires expressed by the OP. I read a lot of philosophy, too. One of my favorite blogs is lackingambition.com. And so on and so forth.
. . .
I would only do this if I could abide by “Jacob Adjusted for Inflation” (JAFI) type metrics.
Would you be able to provide a short summary or link pointing to a description? TIA
https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?
Ahhhh…I view it as more financial entertainment like how I enjoy watching “survival” shows where I pretty much know most of these guys are staying at hotels in between takes…WyomingFIRE wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:31 pm
For the record, I completely admire those folks for a wide variety of reasons, including philosophy, ethics and morality. I'm not saying their financial decisions are prudent from my perspective, but they are more disciplined than I so my financial views are irrelevant. I admire people who swim upstream and reject consumerism. As a DIY'er, a lot of ERE appeals to me. To me, ERE is a philosophy, a way of life. I hold it in the highest regard. Could I do it? No.
Pete reputedly made/makes $400K off his site. Jacob earned a nice sum as a quant for a few years.
I don’t doubt they are frugal in many ways but certainly they enjoy a large financial safety net that many of their followers don’t.
Like the survival show guys who know if something really bad happens on location a medivac helo will show up…or if they don’t happen to find food for the day there’s a couple packs of mountain house dinners with the camera person reserved for them.