Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

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BogleFan510
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by BogleFan510 »

I think it is hard to be a saver, frugal, and then completely not be investing, because the unspent growth and earnings are going to be reinvested.

I downsized my job in my 40s, earning maybe half my market value or less. However, since we spend so little, being recycling types, cooks, drive prius, etc. we still saved a ton and that job had retirement benefits. When we retired completely in early 50s, the savings just seem to keep growing the portfolio. Quiting without any savings is taking too huge a risk for most people, and not worth it when a few extra years of work buys so much compound growth, so the scenario of quitting with exactly the income needed and no more seems unrealistic.
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whodidntante
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by whodidntante »

I could stop contributing and I would most likely be OK, but my job is not soul-sucking nor do I have a soul that I am aware of. So I continue to make contributions.
loukycpa
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by loukycpa »

rssll5 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm
If I assume we never invest another dollar (which won’t happen..) and assume an inflation adjusted 7% return, we’d be looking at $3.2M at 65. If we were to continue to max my 401k and the Roth’s, we’d be looking at $9.4M at 65.
There are very few planning scenarios (well conceived and otherwise) that won't work out well with that assumption. :wink:

When I was at your stage, the year was 2003. Had just lived through the popping of the dot com bubble. Unknown to me at the time was that the 2008/2009 financial crisis was ahead. Basically we were entering what was a lost decade (2000 through 2010) in terms of investment returns.

We are at the end of long bull market. Even the 5% real returns mentioned upthread may be inflated.

What if a period like 2000 through 2010, or worse, is what is around the corner? How would this impact your plan?
"The safe assumption for an investor is that over the next hundred years, the currency is going to zero." - Charlie Munger
stoptothink
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by stoptothink »

whodidntante wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:06 pm I could stop contributing and I would most likely be OK, but my job is not soul-sucking nor do I have a soul that I am aware of. So I continue to make contributions.
Same, just turned 40 (wife is 35) with ~$1.2M in liquid assets and a paid off home. We also have very low household expenditures, <$30k/yr for family of 4. My job is great, outside of the money I think it is generally a net-positive for my happiness (for the time being). What I have done is stop attempting at all to climb up the ladder; I have become very clear about work boundaries and I have no problem saying no. I am spending a lot more time with my kids (9 and 6). My wife on the other hand would like to push for another 5yrs or so, she recently accepted an opportunity which nearly doubled her income and still has some growth opportunity. She very much enjoys it as well. With not a whole lot of motivation to increase our spending (right now), we're amping up the savings for a few more years and we'll reevaluate.
RJC
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by RJC »

I think I would rather feel the pain for a shorter period of time and overshoot than try to coast. What if market conditions change during that time?

It's easier to loosen the belt than to tighten it again.
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Tamarind
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Tamarind »

My plan is to cut back to part time work once I hit the second SS bend point. I suppose that is a kind of coastFIRE? But I would probably still want to at least contribute to Roth IRA.

Not really sure how this is different from BaristaFIRE or any other plan that allows reduction of income ahead of full retirement.
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

CoastFIRE doesn't always make sense - but consumption smoothing might (save more while young, let off the gas a bit to enjoy time with kids, save more later) depending on the percentages. But it sounds like you're talking more about changing jobs for a better work/life balance - that strikes me as a different conversation.
1moreyr
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by 1moreyr »

In my mid 30s i thought i was burnt out. I was ready to throw a 6 figure job away and buy a business that would pay me $30K a year running a deli in the mountains at a tourist area. this was 20 years ago and 30K was not a lot of money then either.

in my case, i wasn't burnt out. I was stressed out. There was a huge project that was going sideways and I was in the middle of it. I stuck it out and changed jobs within the company after it went live. I worked another 20 years at Megacorp which cemented a medical retirement and pension. I pulled trigger on that last year. when i "retired" was making more triple what i was making when i thought i was burned out. I also had an amazing career with some awesome travel opportunities and brought the family along a couple times.

I had a good friend hire me to work "one more year" and had a great time doing it. I have no regrets and at 47X expenses I am in a good place

The moral of this story is understanding why you feel the way you do and make the right moves (for you) that gets you through.

it's also interesting perspective. if you are a 30 something there seems to be a belief "the jobs will be there".. as a 50 something that lived through the 70s, I still have that nagging feeling it might not always be that way
sailaway
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by sailaway »

Tamarind wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:09 am Not really sure how this is different from BaristaFIRE or any other plan that allows reduction of income ahead of full retirement.
I have often had this question and I *think* folks refer to baristaFIRE as a way of reducing withdrawals to stretch the pot further vs coastFIRE as working to fully fund current lifestyle and allowing existing savings to grow.

Still not sure how to compare either to semi-retirement or post retirement jobs. I do tend to think of semi-retirement as downshifting in the same field vs a post retirement job with shifting to sporadic consulting or finding an unrelated job. But they could well be workingFI, which is where we stand (well, DH is; no one pays me for any of my work, so I am volunteeringFI).
Jags4186
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Jags4186 »

CoastFIRE sounds like the most stressful option anyone can take. I can’t imagine a planner having to hope something completely of of their control works out for decades…. At what point do you realize it is working/not working? And if you decide it’s not working, are you even in a position to fix it?
sailaway
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by sailaway »

Jags4186 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:08 am CoastFIRE sounds like the most stressful option anyone can take. I can’t imagine a planner having to hope something completely of of their control works out for decades…. At what point do you realize it is working/not working? And if you decide it’s not working, are you even in a position to fix it?
Actually, if the downshift is in one's own field, you are probably maintaining both the relationships and the skills that would make returning to full pay possible. In that sense, it seems much more practical than baristaFIRE or leanFIRE.

For OP, that might mean downshifting now to spend more time with the kids, then going back to an above average salary in a few years, if the savings haven't grown as anticipated. Kind of a part time extended sabbatical.
Jags4186
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Jags4186 »

sailaway wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:36 am
Jags4186 wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 11:08 am CoastFIRE sounds like the most stressful option anyone can take. I can’t imagine a planner having to hope something completely of of their control works out for decades…. At what point do you realize it is working/not working? And if you decide it’s not working, are you even in a position to fix it?
Actually, if the downshift is in one's own field, you are probably maintaining both the relationships and the skills that would make returning to full pay possible. In that sense, it seems much more practical than baristaFIRE or leanFIRE.

For OP, that might mean downshifting now to spend more time with the kids, then going back to an above average salary in a few years, if the savings haven't grown as anticipated. Kind of a part time extended sabbatical.
Sounds pretty rosy eyed to think one can just go to a downshifted role for several years and then go right back to being a big earner. Sure, maybe it works out for some…but really pretty unrealistic for many.
Booper
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Booper »

rssll5 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm I think everyone can conceptually understand the thought behind CoastFIRE - you accumulate enough assets early on that you can let the 8th wonder of the world do it’s thing while you prioritize things other than investing, namely:

1. Spending money that would have previously been invested on other things: giving, spending, investing in hobbies, etc..

OR

2. Moving to a more rewarding job that pays less but still covers your living expenses

But… has anyone here actually pulled the trigger and just stopped investing 10 or 20 years before retirement?

I’m 30, make 185k base (close to 300k with options and bonus) but I’m completely burnt out and want to be more “present” at home while my kids are still young (ages 2, 3, 4).

We have ~$300k invested today, and my wife currently stays home but will eventually return to work as ICU nurse.

If I assume we never invest another dollar (which won’t happen..) and assume an inflation adjusted 7% return, we’d be looking at $3.2M at 65. If we were to continue to max my 401k and the Roth’s, we’d be looking at $9.4M at 65.

I’ve gotta think that taking my foot off the gas and investing in being a great dad will be worth >$6M when I’m on my deathbed.. but I’m also (naturally) hesitant to actually take a big paycut and stopping our investments so soon.

Anyone pulled the trigger on “CoastFIRE” or planning to?
Hello. I read your post and many of the replies. There are lots of great replies, but you specifically asked if anyone had done what you describe and it looks like very few people had answered "yes". Since I actually did this about 5 years ago I think I can actually add something constructive here.

I'll also note that you didn't ask me any specific question. So I'll just go free form in my answer.

It's always hard to talk about things like this online. But I want to start by reiterating something you said that seems important:
I’m completely burnt out and want to be more “present” at home while my kids are still young (ages 2, 3, 4).
I think that this is a very human desire. I think (hope?) most people could relate to it, say that it is a good thing to want, and so on.

I feel like in movies and whatnot we often tell the story of people who regret how much time they spent at work. The "I regret not spending more time with the kids" story seems very common. But we often don't tell the story of people do what you seem to want to do, so you might feel all alone somehow. You are not.

Without knowing you personally, it's hard to give specific advice. But I'll tell you things I wish I knew / did when I was at your stage of "coast FIRE":
1. Find a fee-only financial advisor, tell them what you're thinking, and go through their process. I saw two advisors, they both had a different process, and it was very helpful. You might struggle to find someone you like. But it's probably worth it.
2. Consider if you are interested / able to work part time at your current employer, get demoted, etc. If this conversation seems too scary, consider hiring a professional to help you. There might be options available to you that you have not considered / will not be able to achieve on your own, and they might be very lucrative and / or your best option

The theme of these two points is: I still have a financial life to manage. And I still have a career to manage. If you pull the trigger on this, then you will too.

I am also recommending that you SPEND money to hire professionals to talk through your options with. This will likely be one of the biggest inflection points of you financial life, and you have dependents. I think it's worth talking to professionals about it.

I do not have the headaches or riches of fulltime employment. And I don't need them in the way some people do. But money and work are still a part of my life.

Overall, the time and energy that I have been able to put to non-work activities has been valuable. I would say it was worth it.

As for where I am now, 5 years later. I have more money than I did at the start. But this is largely due to a windfall that came through (and which I expected at the start). The COVID stock market crash scared me more than if I had a job, I think.

At this point I have accomplished most of the personal projects that I wanted to at the start. I am actually looking to reenter the workforce as a fulltime employee. I think I would get access to more interesting projects if I did this. However, I am finding it to be more difficult than I would like to admit to get a job. I assume that I will eventually be able to get a job that I like, but I do think that this is worth mentioning to give you a complete picture of what my life is like and the tradeoffs that are involved.

Cutting-edge, high-paying jobs like the kind I used to have (and which it seems you currently have) are hard to get. At some levels this seems like an obvious thing to say. But until I stepped out of that world, I don't think I fully appreciated how much work it took to get there (e.g. competing to get into a good school, get a good internship, etc). Coast FIRE really does take you out of that competition. And so while I do expect to be able to get a job I like sooner rather than later, I'd feel a bit remiss if I didn't mention latest chapter / issue in my reply. Since I'm not yet on the other side of it, I can't tell you how big an issue it will wind up being.
Katietsu
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Katietsu »

1moreyr wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 10:26 am In my mid 30s i thought i was burnt out. I was ready to throw a 6 figure job away and buy a business that would pay me $30K a year running a deli in the mountains at a tourist area. this was 20 years ago and 30K was not a lot of money then either.

in my case, i wasn't burntr out.I was stressed out. There was a huge project that was going sideways and I was in the middle of it. I stuck it out and changed jobs within the company after it went live. I worked another 20 years at Megacorp which cemented a medical retirement and pension. I pulled trigger on that last year. when i "retired" was making more triple what i was making when i thought i was burned out. I also had an amazing career with some awesome travel opportunities and brought the family along a couple times.

I had a good friend hire me to work "one more year" and had a great time doing it. I have no regrets and at 47X expenses I am in a good place

The moral of this story is understanding why you feel the way you do and make the right moves (for you) that gets you through.

it's also interesting perspective. if you are a 30 something there seems to be a belief "the jobs will be there".. as a 50 something that lived through the 70s, I still have that nagging feeling it might not always be that way
I am quoting your post because I think it is one of the most to the point responses written.
Wannaretireearly
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

rssll5 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:17 am
esqu1re wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:19 am Burning out at 30 is pretty early. Is there something you could do besides continuing to work this job or taking a 3 year break? Is there a part time or work from home option? Maybe a different field or employer?

For example: I was a litigation lawyer for 8 years before switching to lower paid and less stressful government work. I work 4x10hrs/ week. Best decision I've made so far.
Been at the same employer for my entire career, working my way up from entry level analyst to now managing a decent sized org of 30. I think a lot of the burnout is related to slowly accumulating and never shedding any responsibility for nearly a decade.

To your question, another idea I’ve been chewing on is taking a similar role w/ similar compensation at another company and seeing if I can milk the “newness” factor for a few years until the wife returns to work, and then downshifting at that time if I start to feel burnt out again.

The hours worked is not really the issue today - it’s the amount of responsibility that weighs on me 24/7 and prevents me from ever fully checking out of work from a mental perspective. Haven’t had health issues or trouble sleeping yet, but not wanting to wait around for that to start happening, either.
I changed role, lateral change. I still coach/mentor my replacement, but am so glad I moved. New role more strategic, less operational and a lot less stress and work!
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
lws
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by lws »

Considered it but:
-Enjoyed providing a needed service to humanity (electric energy).
-Family obligations.
-Promise of a guaranteed income for life after retirement (pension)
-Promise of health insurance for life after retirement (employee health plan)
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rssll5
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

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rssll5
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

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Greg in Idaho
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Greg in Idaho »

phase03 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:08 am
Carguy85 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 am
phase03 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 pm Phase 1 was my professional career in accounting. I did that as long as I could possibly tolerate until I was 43. Then I happily ditched the office for a full time physically intense truck driver/loader job. Now at 49 I am coasting by doing just enough of a food delivery gig to break even.
Interesting...I often think about doing this... What percent of a pay cut was the trucking job? Any regrets?
I went from $95,000 to $32,000. Needless to say it was very difficult to pull the trigger at the time. I was more than ready a few years before I did it but kept pressing on. I'm sure I'd still be at it today if I didn't have such a supportive and encouraging wife. We've always been on the same page when it comes to spending and understand that material things aren't what makes for a good life.

So no regrets at all except for wishing I started investing sooner.
I'm in a similar boat...but the new lower paying more meaningful job has not provided much of a break yet (way more work actually, just less pay...but definitely more meaningful/rewarding and I am building future potential). I only have myself to blame though since I'm self employed...working to dial it back. I don't regret leaving the former job, but I do regret taking on too much with the new gig.

And can't emphasize the importance of the supportive and encouraging wife part enough...
dboeger1
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by dboeger1 »

Sorry if I'm repeating, I didn't read every single reply. In general, I don't think of CoastFIRE as a real form of FIRE. I'm sure that'll make some people angry, but there are 2 main reasons I don't really believe in CoastFIRE:

1) Successfully implementing CoastFIRE over the course of one's career depends on several optimistic assumptions decades in advance. Are you sure you're never going to need a sudden chunk of cash to deal with a family emergency? Are you sure you'll be able to continue earning the required level of income all the way to your target retirement age? Can you say for sure that you'll really be happier with this plan decades from now? Will you be able to get back into your early career path if you decide that's what you want to do? What will happen if the unexpected happens, like your country's economic position diminishing by the time you retire? Would you be willing to relocate or diversify your investments abroad to deal with hypotheticals like China beating the USA on the world stage? Can your portfolio withstand unforeseen wars, recessions, and other hardships? Will you be able to afford optional luxuries like paying for children's private education or fancy toy cars or boats? Will you ever need to move to a higher-cost area to be closer to family/healthcare/opportunities? How wide of a range of returns would allow you to reach your goals? There's little you can do besides saving more to insulate yourself from unknowns over many decades, and if you don't continue saving more, you're very much tied to your job anyway.

2) Speaking of being tied to your job, the whole point of FIRE is to not be. At its core, FIRE is achieving financial independence early as a means of improving one's life. Many traditional FIRE people got into it because they were tired of a soul-sucking corporate job or just wanted to do something else. Others wanted to be able to set their own schedule to spend more time with family. CoastFIRE accomplishes basically none of that. It's just saving and investing for retirement like the mainstream. The only thing that separates CoastFIRE from traditional saving for full-age retirement is front-loading the savings with the hope of maximizing returns. But even that is very optimistic given the volatility of stocks. It's not historically unusual for front-loading investments to underperform steady investments. It's often stated in topics about lump sum vs. DCA that lump sum is usually better, and that's true, but it's better like 60% of the time, not 90% (rough estimates to demonstrate the point). Here's a useful graphic that shows how much starting and ending conditions can matter:

https://archive.nytimes.com/www.nytimes ... aphic.html

That's why I and many FIRE practitioners treat it as more of a loosely-defined milestone than a desirable plan. I remember being excited to hit a CoastFIRE number because it felt like it was putting a nice, reasonable floor on my retirement prospects. But at the end of the day, that was not a time I would have considered to pursue a career change/downshift, take time off, etc. I suspect the same is true of OP, since they mentioned not planning to cut out retirement savings entirely. As long as you keep working, you may as well continue to max out retirement accounts, since the tax benefits are in a sense part of one's compensation that spending the money would be foregoing. So in practice, I doubt more than a handful of people ever actually implement CoastFIRE in real life. It's not well-supported by the current structure of the American retirement system. There's no easy way to thread the needle decades in advance to end up with just the amount you need. If you were, nobody would ever work an extra day of their life for just-in-case money.

I would only ever think about CoastFIRE as a plan much closer to retirement, but even that is somewhat self-contradictory because one's asset allocation is usually more conservative by then to help mitigate sequence of returns risk, reducing the prospects for long-term returns to coast towards. I think it's telling that you almost never read topics on here from people projecting coasting to their retirement 5-10 years from the time of posting. I literally don't think I've ever read a topic about someone taking the gas off savings right before retirement. Almost everyone uses that time as a last final push to build extra cushion into the portfolio by maximizing savings rate and carefully budgeting to keep expenses low. CoastFIRE just comes across as young people's wishful thinking based on nothing but a long time horizon. Actually getting from Point A to Point B can get very messy. I would not describe working parents with young children and sick grandparents getting laid off but hoping they can get new jobs in time not to have to dip into their retirement savings sitting in risky assets that could crash any day as "coasting". This is the kind of future you may be unknowingly signing up for with "CoastFIRE". Or it may work out wonderfully. I prefer to do my gambling in Vegas with smaller amounts and free drinks brought to me.
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HomerJ
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by HomerJ »

rssll5 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm I think everyone can conceptually understand the thought behind CoastFIRE - you accumulate enough assets early on that you can let the 8th wonder of the world do it’s thing while you prioritize things other than investing, namely:

1. Spending money that would have previously been invested on other things: giving, spending, investing in hobbies, etc..

OR

2. Moving to a more rewarding job that pays less but still covers your living expenses

But… has anyone here actually pulled the trigger and just stopped investing 10 or 20 years before retirement?

I’m 30, make 185k base (close to 300k with options and bonus) but I’m completely burnt out and want to be more “present” at home while my kids are still young (ages 2, 3, 4).

We have ~$300k invested today, and my wife currently stays home but will eventually return to work as ICU nurse.

If I assume we never invest another dollar (which won’t happen..) and assume an inflation adjusted 7% return, we’d be looking at $3.2M at 65. If we were to continue to max my 401k and the Roth’s, we’d be looking at $9.4M at 65.

I’ve gotta think that taking my foot off the gas and investing in being a great dad will be worth >$6M when I’m on my deathbed.. but I’m also (naturally) hesitant to actually take a big paycut and stopping our investments so soon.

Anyone pulled the trigger on “CoastFIRE” or planning to?
If you're asking if you can start looking for a lower-paying job that gives you a better work/life balance, the answer is yes.

But that has nothing to do with CoastFire - $300k saved is not enough to stop saving forever.

But sure, you can look for a better job, and save less for a while. You will get raises over time, and your wife will go back to work someday, and you'll be able to save more, probably a lot more, in the future.

I just think you're asking the wrong question. Yes, you don't have to work a job you hate. No, you can't just stop saving at 30.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
FrugalFed
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by FrugalFed »

This is easier perhaps if someone is in a job with a pension, and "coasting" means remaining in the job until a pension-eligible age but not saving beyond that. I've heard of people who work for the feds doing just that after putting together what they consider to be an adequate stash (or perhaps just contributing to the match).
phase03
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by phase03 »

Greg in Idaho wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:08 pm
phase03 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:08 am
Carguy85 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 am
phase03 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:59 pm Phase 1 was my professional career in accounting. I did that as long as I could possibly tolerate until I was 43. Then I happily ditched the office for a full time physically intense truck driver/loader job. Now at 49 I am coasting by doing just enough of a food delivery gig to break even.
Interesting...I often think about doing this... What percent of a pay cut was the trucking job? Any regrets?
I went from $95,000 to $32,000. Needless to say it was very difficult to pull the trigger at the time. I was more than ready a few years before I did it but kept pressing on. I'm sure I'd still be at it today if I didn't have such a supportive and encouraging wife. We've always been on the same page when it comes to spending and understand that material things aren't what makes for a good life.

So no regrets at all except for wishing I started investing sooner.
I'm in a similar boat...but the new lower paying more meaningful job has not provided much of a break yet (way more work actually, just less pay...but definitely more meaningful/rewarding and I am building future potential). I only have myself to blame though since I'm self employed...working to dial it back. I don't regret leaving the former job, but I do regret taking on too much with the new gig.

And can't emphasize the importance of the supportive and encouraging wife part enough...
Good luck with finding the right balance that you need to make it all work. Life in general is exactly that...a difficult balancing act. It sounds like you got the most important thing right though...a great partner to enjoy it with. Cheers to you for that!
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Darth Xanadu
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Darth Xanadu »

englishgirl wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 10:51 am I theoretically coast fired. I chose to move into a more rewarding but lower paid job. My plan was that I would just cover my expenses until early retirement and let my savings grow. Here's how that hasn't worked out:
1. It's damn hard to stop contributing to retirement accounts. So I kept contributing, although at a lower level. I put 10% of my income into my SEP-IRA and still contribute the maximum to my Roth IRA. Sometimes the Roth contribution has come from just moving savings from a taxable account, these days it is coming from income (mostly).
2. I initially went down to an income of $25k as I had figured I could live on that. But I was still drawing from savings for things like vacations and a new car. I had purposely packed my savings/emergency funds but it didn't feel sustainable to keep drawing from it. And it wasn't as much fun scrimping to live on $25k the rest of the time. You get used to some luxuries that are hard to give up, even for a Boglehead. Also, taking care of myself has become more expensive as I've aged, and it is nice to be able to afford to have a massage every now and then (or whatever). Lately I've been increasing my income by working harder, so I am not coasting (as in, relaxing) as much.
3. I am no longer as interested in retiring early because I like my job better. So now I keep thinking I am going to have too much in my retirement accounts, but hey, at least we'll be able to travel more and spend more on luxuries than we would have been able to do if I'd stuck with the minimum.
Nice post, thanks for sharing your experience.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

DW and I did something along these lines at the end of 2019. We hit ~20X expenses and took a year off to travel (great timing, right?). After 8 months in Europe we came back to the USA and both found jobs quickly (business development in mid-sized tech), albeit for a paycut compared to where we were before we left. A year later, our incomes have surpassed their pre sabbatical high water mark. Now the plan is to alternate working and playing throughout our late 30's to early 50's. Based on very conservative math we should arrive at 33X expenses with 50% time working and 50% time not working over the next 20 years. This thread is depressing, because it's an echo chamber of people who would rather slog it for decades to mitigate every possible risk in their twilight years at the expense of time in the healthiest and likely most energetic decades. Don't mean that as a blanket statement, surely some of you have balance and love what you do, but it seems that fear is keeping many shackled to less than ideal situations.

Here's a great resource that really opened DW's and my eyes to longevity risk vs. portfolio risk......https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

Also, highly recommend reading "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins. Certain things are best enjoyed at certain phases of life.
Admiral
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Admiral »

Find a job you love. Then it won't feel like work. Either that, or inherit a lot of money.
Zeno
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Zeno »

2Birds1Stone wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:32 am DW and I did something along these lines at the end of 2019. We hit ~20X expenses and took a year off to travel (great timing, right?). After 8 months in Europe we came back to the USA and both found jobs quickly (business development in mid-sized tech), albeit for a paycut compared to where we were before we left. A year later, our incomes have surpassed their pre sabbatical high water mark. Now the plan is to alternate working and playing throughout our late 30's to early 50's. Based on very conservative math we should arrive at 33X expenses with 50% time working and 50% time not working over the next 20 years. This thread is depressing, because it's an echo chamber of people who would rather slog it for decades to mitigate every possible risk in their twilight years at the expense of time in the healthiest and likely most energetic decades. Don't mean that as a blanket statement, surely some of you have balance and love what you do, but it seems that fear is keeping many shackled to less than ideal situations.

Here's a great resource that really opened DW's and my eyes to longevity risk vs. portfolio risk......https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

Also, highly recommend reading "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins. Certain things are best enjoyed at certain phases of life.
+1

I envy your approach and spirit. Philosophically, I'm completely with you. I admire you.

What nags at me though are three aspects. The first is long-term planning -- here, for example, planning out what will happen over the next 20 years. When I look backwards 20 years to see where I was (age 37) then compare that to where I am now (57), I could not have planned or charted that path in advance. At age 37, as it turns out, I really had no idea what I was going to be doing at age 41, let alone age 57. As it turns out those years weren't negative, they were positive, but there were lots of twists and turns and ups and downs along the way.

The second is the generally limited time in which the average joe or jane such as myself has to make decent income, a portion of which could be saved. From my perch in my 50's and looking back on my life -- and this is totally anecdotal of course -- I've come to appreciate that my prime years for earning a bankable wage were quite limited, having peaked when I was in my late 40's. And that period includes one stint where I started my own law firm with some buddies, so I wasn't always just an employee. Maybe that boils down to only 20 years or so to bury nuts in my backyard for the coming winter. Those are years that, once past, are really hard to get back, however. They may be impossible to get back, in fact. I never wanted winter to arrive and find myself with too few nuts buried in my backyard.

The third is related to the second. If I had started to "coast" in my prime working years and, retrospectively, that hadn't turned out and led to financial distress later in life, I wouldn't have wanted to look into the eyes of DW or my children and explain why I chose leisure during my prime working years over doing everything I could then to ensure their financial stability. I didn't want my son to ever ask "I wonder why Dad was fishing at age 41 instead of working to help pay for my college?" I never wanted to face that question. And that is why I have kept slogging.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by 2Birds1Stone »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:14 am The third is related to the second. If I had started to "coast" in my prime working years and, retrospectively, that hadn't turned out and led to financial distress later in life, I wouldn't have wanted to look into the eyes of DW or my children and explain why I chose leisure during my prime working years over doing everything I could then to ensure their financial stability. I didn't want my son to ever ask "I wonder why Dad was fishing at age 41 instead of working to help pay for my college?" I never wanted to face that question. And that is why I have kept slogging.
You bring up some valid and great points, and it comes down to individual risk tolerance and fulfillment. When you're on your death bed, only you will be able to decide if you lived your best life.

To the specific quoted part above, I'd like to share the flip side.

I have a father who as a small business owner had that exact mentality. He was always working, and while my friends had spent many afternoons fishing or playing catch with their dads, mine was too busy working. He could never satisfy the hunger for more success and income from the business, citing college, paying off the mortgage, etc. Now he's mid 60's and having trouble stepping back because there are no hobbies to retire to, no identity outside of work. His health is failing him, and his grand plans of touring North and South America by motorcycle are just a pipe dream due to a debilitating back and cancer treatments. Sure, he could have paid for any undergrad/grad school myself and siblings had chosen, but we more or less grew up without a father. My example may show a swing to the far side of the pendulum, but maybe memories with your kids at 40 outweigh being able to send them to private uni without having to take a loan or work a summer job.......
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by HomerJ »

2Birds1Stone wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:20 ambut we more or less grew up without a father. My example may show a swing to the far side of the pendulum
Yes, your example swings to the far side (although not uncommon)

But there's a very healthy (and wide) middle.

The OP doesn't need to stop saving at age 30 to spend time with his kids. He just needs to find a better job.
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Admiral »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 10:44 am
2Birds1Stone wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 8:20 ambut we more or less grew up without a father. My example may show a swing to the far side of the pendulum
Yes, your example swings to the far side (although not uncommon)

But there's a very healthy (and wide) middle.

The OP doesn't need to stop saving at age 30 to spend time with his kids. He just needs to find a better job.
+1.

Perhaps OP thinks the more flexible job will result in a major pay cut. Which may or may not be true. These days it seems companies are struggling to find workers and as a result are bending over backwards to get them (work from home, etc).
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Normchad »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 7:14 am
2Birds1Stone wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:32 am DW and I did something along these lines at the end of 2019. We hit ~20X expenses and took a year off to travel (great timing, right?). After 8 months in Europe we came back to the USA and both found jobs quickly (business development in mid-sized tech), albeit for a paycut compared to where we were before we left. A year later, our incomes have surpassed their pre sabbatical high water mark. Now the plan is to alternate working and playing throughout our late 30's to early 50's. Based on very conservative math we should arrive at 33X expenses with 50% time working and 50% time not working over the next 20 years. This thread is depressing, because it's an echo chamber of people who would rather slog it for decades to mitigate every possible risk in their twilight years at the expense of time in the healthiest and likely most energetic decades. Don't mean that as a blanket statement, surely some of you have balance and love what you do, but it seems that fear is keeping many shackled to less than ideal situations.

Here's a great resource that really opened DW's and my eyes to longevity risk vs. portfolio risk......https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

Also, highly recommend reading "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins. Certain things are best enjoyed at certain phases of life.
+1

I envy your approach and spirit. Philosophically, I'm completely with you. I admire you.

What nags at me though are three aspects. The first is long-term planning -- here, for example, planning out what will happen over the next 20 years. When I look backwards 20 years to see where I was (age 37) then compare that to where I am now (57), I could not have planned or charted that path in advance. At age 37, as it turns out, I really had no idea what I was going to be doing at age 41, let alone age 57. As it turns out those years weren't negative, they were positive, but there were lots of twists and turns and ups and downs along the way.

The second is the generally limited time in which the average joe or jane such as myself has to make decent income, a portion of which could be saved. From my perch in my 50's and looking back on my life -- and this is totally anecdotal of course -- I've come to appreciate that my prime years for earning a bankable wage were quite limited, having peaked when I was in my late 40's. And that period includes one stint where I started my own law firm with some buddies, so I wasn't always just an employee. Maybe that boils down to only 20 years or so to bury nuts in my backyard for the coming winter. Those are years that, once past, are really hard to get back, however. They may be impossible to get back, in fact. I never wanted winter to arrive and find myself with too few nuts buried in my backyard.

The third is related to the second. If I had started to "coast" in my prime working years and, retrospectively, that hadn't turned out and led to financial distress later in life, I wouldn't have wanted to look into the eyes of DW or my children and explain why I chose leisure during my prime working years over doing everything I could then to ensure their financial stability. I didn't want my son to ever ask "I wonder why Dad was fishing at age 41 instead of working to help pay for my college?" I never wanted to face that question. And that is why I have kept slogging.
Super terrific post! Folks should read it twice, especially #2.

Young people just can not understand or appreciate what getting older means. And I fear a lot of them are not capturing the true value of their human capital. You won’t be amazing forever.

That awesome job you have? I don’t doubt that you deserve it, and earned it, and work hard at it. But there was still luck at play. And if you walk away, you won’t necessarily be lucky enough to walk back in.

If you think pushing 40 sucks, just wait til you’re pulling it.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Elsebet »

When I hear CoastFire I don't think of quitting working/investing, I think of taking a job that may or may not pay as well but has better work-life balance or is more aligned to personal interests. I took a pay cut at age 43 to go from a high stress position to a lower one, and I was able to do this because I invested heavily starting at age 22. I still max all of my retirement accounts, and will until I retire.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Wannaretireearly »

Tamarind wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:09 am My plan is to cut back to part time work once I hit the second SS bend point. I suppose that is a kind of coastFIRE? But I would probably still want to at least contribute to Roth IRA.

Not really sure how this is different from BaristaFIRE or any other plan that allows reduction of income ahead of full retirement.
We need a thread on how to cut back on work. Not just change to part time, but actively reduce workload when in coast mode. Did I mention it’s hump day ?!?
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Normchad »

Elsebet wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:59 pm When I hear CoastFire I don't think of quitting working/investing, I think of taking a job that may or may not pay as well but has better work-life balance or is more aligned to personal interests. I took a pay cut at age 43 to go from a high stress position to a lower one, and I was able to do this because I invested heavily starting at age 22. I still max all of my retirement accounts, and will until I retire.
Yep, that fits. I also think about people that don’t switch jobs, but just cut way back on savings; knowing that they futurecompounding will take care of the rest.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by HomerJ »

Normchad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:41 pm
Elsebet wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:59 pm When I hear CoastFire I don't think of quitting working/investing, I think of taking a job that may or may not pay as well but has better work-life balance or is more aligned to personal interests. I took a pay cut at age 43 to go from a high stress position to a lower one, and I was able to do this because I invested heavily starting at age 22. I still max all of my retirement accounts, and will until I retire.
Yep, that fits. I also think about people that don’t switch jobs, but just cut way back on savings; knowing that they futurecompounding will take care of the rest.
Got to be careful about that though...

It counts twice... If you cut back on savings, you're now spending more, which means you need to save more before you can retire to maintain your new higher level of spending.

Unless you spend that extra money on things you won't spend on in retirement.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by willthrill81 »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:56 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:41 pm
Elsebet wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:59 pm When I hear CoastFire I don't think of quitting working/investing, I think of taking a job that may or may not pay as well but has better work-life balance or is more aligned to personal interests. I took a pay cut at age 43 to go from a high stress position to a lower one, and I was able to do this because I invested heavily starting at age 22. I still max all of my retirement accounts, and will until I retire.
Yep, that fits. I also think about people that don’t switch jobs, but just cut way back on savings; knowing that they futurecompounding will take care of the rest.
Got to be careful about that though...

It counts twice... If you cut back on savings, you're now spending more, which means you need to save more before you can retire to maintain your new higher level of spending.

Unless you spend that extra money on things you won't spend on in retirement.
Purchases that are largely one-off could fit within the latter exception (e.g., 'bucket list' trips, boats, RVs) as long ongoing expenses (e.g., maintenance) aren't too much.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by 59Gibson »

2Birds1Stone wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 6:32 am DW and I did something along these lines at the end of 2019. We hit ~20X expenses and took a year off to travel (great timing, right?). After 8 months in Europe we came back to the USA and both found jobs quickly (business development in mid-sized tech), albeit for a paycut compared to where we were before we left. A year later, our incomes have surpassed their pre sabbatical high water mark. Now the plan is to alternate working and playing throughout our late 30's to early 50's. Based on very conservative math we should arrive at 33X expenses with 50% time working and 50% time not working over the next 20 years. This thread is depressing, because it's an echo chamber of people who would rather slog it for decades to mitigate every possible risk in their twilight years at the expense of time in the healthiest and likely most energetic decades. Don't mean that as a blanket statement, surely some of you have balance and love what you do, but it seems that fear is keeping many shackled to less than ideal situations.

Here's a great resource that really opened DW's and my eyes to longevity risk vs. portfolio risk......https://engaging-data.com/will-money-last-retire-early/

Also, highly recommend reading "Die With Zero" by Bill Perkins. Certain things are best enjoyed at certain phases of life.
Nice. In hindsight I should have bailed on my former position a few yrs earlier, I took a much less stressful/less pay p/t job in June 2020 at 45. My wife downshifted her biz to very p/t. We're now at 42X, I kind of regret the additional time spent there because the job became an anchor around my neck the final 2yrs but I muddled thru. I don't plan on adding to the portfolio, but who knows
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Wanderingwheelz »

I quit working last year at 49, with a wife whose happy to keep on running her business for the foreseeable future so I guess in a way I’m coasting (we’re coasting?- not sure how this works). We are saving a substantial percentage of her earned income, though. Ideally we wouldn’t be saving such a high percentage, but she’s been doing great and we haven’t been able to travel as much as we’d like for obvious reasons. We’re in a position to be completely retired any time she wishes to be.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by stocknoob4111 »

would only be confident of coast fire for a 20+ year time horizon as there have been 13 year periods of zero returns
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Ari »

I reached FI (as in 25x) this year, currently at about 350k USD, after about eight years of saving at 50%-67% net income (about 25%-33% gross, since my tax rate is 50%). I may have higher expenses in the future, so I’m not retiring, but the plan is to start easing off a bit. Perhaps working 50% or so, or maybe gradually increase my expenses as my portfolio grows. I’m not sure if that’s coasting (guess not, as I’m already FI?), but something similar. Haven’t quite decided yet, but it feels great to have options!
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Carousel »

rssll5 wrote: Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:14 pm I’m 30, make 185k base (close to 300k with options and bonus) but I’m completely burnt out and want to be more “present” at home while my kids are still young (ages 2, 3, 4).
Last edited by Carousel on Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by mrjohnanderson007 »

I'm 35 and recently decided to barista fire. I'm only working the jobs I want, for fun. Does spending oodles of money make you happier? You could compromise, get a different job, spend a little more, and still save a little.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by mrjohnanderson007 »

HomerJ wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:56 pm
Normchad wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 3:41 pm
Elsebet wrote: Wed Oct 20, 2021 12:59 pm When I hear CoastFire I don't think of quitting working/investing, I think of taking a job that may or may not pay as well but has better work-life balance or is more aligned to personal interests. I took a pay cut at age 43 to go from a high stress position to a lower one, and I was able to do this because I invested heavily starting at age 22. I still max all of my retirement accounts, and will until I retire.
Yep, that fits. I also think about people that don’t switch jobs, but just cut way back on savings; knowing that they futurecompounding will take care of the rest.
Got to be careful about that though...

It counts twice... If you cut back on savings, you're now spending more, which means you need to save more before you can retire to maintain your new higher level of spending.

Unless you spend that extra money on things you won't spend on in retirement.
If you cut back on savings it does not mean you're spending more. It can mean you're making less...
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by willthrill81 »

Ari wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 3:48 am I reached FI (as in 25x) this year, currently at about 350k USD, after about eight years of saving at 50%-67% net income (about 25%-33% gross, since my tax rate is 50%). I may have higher expenses in the future, so I’m not retiring, but the plan is to start easing off a bit. Perhaps working 50% or so, or maybe gradually increase my expenses as my portfolio grows. I’m not sure if that’s coasting (guess not, as I’m already FI?), but something similar. Haven’t quite decided yet, but it feels great to have options!
So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by Zeno »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
Indeed.

$14K = 1.6 JAFI (2020 dollars)

https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by willthrill81 »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:36 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
Indeed.

$14K = 1.6 JAFI (2020 dollars)

https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Haven't seen that one before! Wow, that means my planned initial retirement expenses are almost 7 JAFI! But I want Internet at home, and I like our sub-compact SUV. 8-)
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by qwertyjazz »

WyomingFIRE wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:36 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
Indeed.

$14K = 1.6 JAFI (2020 dollars)

https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Just have to cut spending by another 1/3 before frugal kicks in to get down to 1 JAFI

It comes back to where you live, what you spend money on (do you own, rent etc) what home skills you possess and what community resources
Almost any given number could be extremely frugal (subtract a mortgage payment in a 50 million dollar house) with what is left over or could be extravagant
Grow or trade for food - own house with low property tax - do your own repairs etc and spend money on a trip to Europe every year
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by qwertyjazz »

willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:50 pm
WyomingFIRE wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:36 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
Indeed.

$14K = 1.6 JAFI (2020 dollars)

https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Haven't seen that one before! Wow, that means my planned initial retirement expenses are almost 7 JAFI! But I want Internet at home, and I like our sub-compact SUV. 8-)
Wow that is expensive home internet and a new SUV every year to get to 60 k a year just for internet and car :)
I waste my money on a lot more things and will likely never retire - I need to get banned from Costco
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by mrmass »

The nickname many coworkers have for where I work- Florida. We're all coastfiring....(not felons or florida men)

So find a place that's laid back and offers great work life balance with little accountability. :mrgreen:
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Re: Anyone here CoastFIRE’d?

Post by willthrill81 »

qwertyjazz wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:55 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:50 pm
WyomingFIRE wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 4:36 pm
willthrill81 wrote: Sat Oct 23, 2021 2:35 pm So you're only spending $14k annually? That's incredibly frugal.
Indeed.

$14K = 1.6 JAFI (2020 dollars)

https://forum.earlyretirementextreme.co ... hp?t=10135
Haven't seen that one before! Wow, that means my planned initial retirement expenses are almost 7 JAFI! But I want Internet at home, and I like our sub-compact SUV. 8-)
Wow that is expensive home internet and a new SUV every year to get to 60 k a year just for internet and car :)
Nah, I was just commenting on some of the things that Jacob Fisker did to only spend $7k a year back when he retired (e.g., Internet access only from the library, didn't own a vehicle). I tip my hat to those who can live 1 JAFI.
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