How to develop retirement goals

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Dantheman19
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How to develop retirement goals

Post by Dantheman19 »

Odd question, but I was hoping some had tips for developing retirement goals. Almost all retirement plans start with the question about goals. I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
KlangFool
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by KlangFool »

Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm
Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?
Dantheman19,

Yes, it does after

A) Your employer announced a few major rounds of laid off.

B) You attended too many funerals of your peers.

At this moment, you assume that you have the choice of working until 70 years old.

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FiveK
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by FiveK »

What kind of goals?

E.g., financial, spiritual, professional, personal, ...?
Topic Author
Dantheman19
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Dantheman19 »

Financial. Sorry. I thought this was a finance website?
jdamo
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by jdamo »

As a 2 yr retiree, I suggest you think about what you would like to do if money was no problem (within reason)...pursue your interests!
Look also at what other retirees do typically and see if you would like to do some of those....
For instance, I am playing golf and trying to get better...It is a challenging game and good when you have more time...
Quantify your finances and expenses and think about how they might change in retirement. Develop a plan to get there.

Invest via the Boglehead method with a proper Asset Allocation to achieve the return you might need in retirement for those activities.
Watch the Boglehead videos on the step by step method to invest....
Read "The Bogleheads Guide to Investing" Book ....great overall reference.
Vanguard has guidance on %stocks vs % bonds and portflios and typical returns...I think it is under their investing tab...factor that in....
...Invest in total bond index fund or ETF and SP500 fund or ETF and/or International stock fund or ETF.
Keep it simple...and expenses low.

Most important is to save regularly (auto pay deduction), always invest and live below your means now to achieve the freedom to pursue those retirement goals.
Cheers!
theorist
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by theorist »

At 40, I had essentially never given a thought to retirement and couldn’t imagine wanting to retire.

Now, at just over 50, I can imagine retiring NOW (though I think I won’t). I’ve planned and looked into details and set up finances more properly over the past few years. It has really paid off. It has also led me to seriously look into alternative career paths that may be fun to pursue before retirement.

So yes, significant changes to your thinking and planning may well occur after 40. The pandemic alone has caused structural shifts to the thinking of many folks.
daacrusher2001
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by daacrusher2001 »

When I was 40 (age 62 now) I was basically saving what I could and worked for a company with a good pension plan, so my goals were not very specific - other than to continue to save/invest, and continue to grow my career - work 28 years or so, and retire. I was also saving for college for my boys.

Things were going very well, until 2008 when the company decided they needed to reduce headcount and cut our entire organization. I was 50. I only had about 18yrs into the pension, so I'd never realize the full benefit of that very lucrative plan. Before the layoff, I was targeting full retirement at age 58 as it would have included full medical and a pretty decent pension.

But...plans are just plans, no guarantees. Working for a great company with a great plan gave me some confidence that I'd be able to retire - then the rug was pulled out.

I adjusted, but in the next 13 years I held 6 different jobs. Why? Well...I had three separate consulting gigs in between jobs that were good, but vanished due to company decisions like...merger, sale of business unit, bankruptcy restructuring.

So, yeah...goals change, plans change, etc...all throughout. I'm in a good place now. I could retire today but will likely wait until March. But I'll be 63, not 58 (one goal missed), I'll have some pension, but not nearly what I would have had (second goal missed).

By the way, I'm not complaining. The things I did right were to continue to grow my skills and education, be very productive with respect to my jobs, work to stay healthy, and develop a good professional network. These things enabled me to continue to be marketable.

I think it's great to have retirement goals, but they will change over time and you need to be prepared for downturns...just like investing.
dbr
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by dbr »

Yes, retirement goals change. For one thing retirement goals interact with many other situations and circumstances. Sometimes the result is a greater challenge and sometimes the result is an opportunity. Sometimes it is even an opportunity not to retire, but you wouldn't have anticipated that ahead of time.

So the process is one of successive approximations and modifications.
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Sandtrap
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Sandtrap »

"Retirement Goals" are inseperable (not compartmentalized or fragmented) with "stages of life" goals, which are a dynamic evolution of all the things of life and Self which include; financial, family, home (dream retirement home), et al. As well as, not always but sometimes, "reinvention of self and Self".

Think of it this way, every 100 leaps toward the retirement goal post, we are a different person in a different place with a different point of view, different priorities, different ethos, and different capabilities. And, the "goal post" is different as well.

Compound this with the farther away in years and financial and life space we are from retirement, the more difficult or inaccurate it is to make projections, from financial to other. Life and finances are just too dynamic the farther out we get from a changing target.

Yes. This is a financial and personal financial investment forum. And, personal finance, savings, and investment, savings, etc, is a reflection of self and life. To seperate that is not sensible some might think.

So, actionably and per forum guidelines.

1. Start with a basic comprehensive long range plan to be financially self sustaining by the time you reach retirement age, let's say age 65, whether you are still working or not, love your job or can't stand another minute waiting for that tether to come off, etc.
At age 65, do you want to be; getting by financially, financially independent without worry, wealthy, or filthy rich? (whether you are working or not)

2. Depending on #1, you increase a retirement portfolio to enable the size of total "assets" you think would be good to have, and the size of annual "income stream" you need in retirement expenses. At this point, whether you are working or not. Having this, allows you options to work or not work.

3. So, having done #1-2, you are on a financially secure "glide path" and whatever "retirement goals" you happen to have or not have along the way is "moot", because those are, in part, "feelings", and sometimes those are transient vs substantive and quantifiable and actionable.

4. Once having #1-3, the intangibles of retirement goals have a solid foundation to grow as you grow and grow older and grow old.

PM me as you wish.
j :D
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Kenkat
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Kenkat »

Pick a starting amount, a target age, an annual investment amount and a rate of return and see how much you need to save to hit that target. Spreadsheets work great for this type of thing.

Since you think you might want to work until you are 70 but maybe that could be 50 instead, try 60 and see how that would work. Got that easy? What would it take to make it 55 instead? Rinse and repeat. Once you have an idea of how much to save every year, start monitoring progress and/or make adjustments as things change.
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1789
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by 1789 »

Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm Odd question, but I was hoping some had tips for developing retirement goals. Almost all retirement plans start with the question about goals. I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
Working until 70 for some is not possible, living until 70 also may not be possible. I am 37 one thing i never assume to live until 70 or work until 70. But that's just me.
"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do i want?" (Andrei Tarkovsky)
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Garco
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Garco »

My goals were general ones. I'll number them but not rank them in priority. I've met these goals, but there is always some uncertainty and change.

1. Be financially independent "for life."* Based on 401k/403b accumulations, Social Security, no debt, and a good health plan from my employer (in addition to Medicare).

2. Have my children through college (and free of debt), with settled family situations, and established in good careers.

3. Have time and energy for leisure travel, connecting with my extended family (from coast to coast) and taking trips abroad.

4. Locating or relocating to a part of the country that I would enjoy, but that kept me in touch with my kids and extended family.

* I didn't have a fixed numeric goal but figured that I should have at least $2 million in my retirement funds.
Carousel
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Carousel »

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Thesaints
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Thesaints »

Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm Odd question, but I was hoping some had tips for developing retirement goals. Almost all retirement plans start with the question about goals. I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
I would start with estimating how much $/year you would need to sustain a comfortable and desirable lifestyle during retirement. This would allow you to tentatively calculate the needed capital. If you want to leave money to anyone, you would add that amount on top.
Mind you, this is quite different from what many do, which is more or less estimating the minimum amount they need in retirement. Whenever I see yearly budgets developed by taking into account the cable bill, or the gas for the car, I suspect these people are on the wrong track.
By calculating very carefully expenses, they forget that the entire process has a large error bar and open themselves to catastrophic failures. Planning to living large, so to speak, instead has an intrinsic margin of safety: you can downgrade from a Mercedes to an Audi without suffering too much, but downgrading from a cheap Toyota means taking public transportation, if you catch my drift...
Stoic9
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Stoic9 »

My retirement goals were/are (in 5th year)
1. Relationships
2. Health
3. Finance

Finance goals are:
1) Passive Income: My job had a pension, my rentals provide income, my SS plan is Wifeiod at 62, me at 70 and then wifeiod spousal benefits. Pension has cola and SB. Rentals increase average 5-8% a year
2) Portfolio: 80/20 ( 401K, tIRA, Roth, Taxable). Working conversions, doesn't look like this will be needed (relationships: 1 progeny)
3) Real Estate: generates passive income progeny will inherit. We sold one because the market is incredible the tenants begged us and paid WAY over market, put proceeds into taxable.
4) zero debt: this includes progeny (I manage its finances)

* we are minimalist in daily life but travel only first class for health (adventure travel) and building relationships
LittleMaggieMae
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by LittleMaggieMae »

Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
As has been pointed out - life happens - you may lose your job in your mid 50's and have trouble finding employment when you were expecting to be gainfully employed for another 15 years (70), you may experience health issues and may find working to 70 impossible or very difficult.

There is also the fact that your work place (and job and skill set) may need to change dramatically during the next 10,15, 20, or 30 years. The work you are doing today may not be the work you are doing 15 years from now (and you may not enjoy it as much or may not want to "keep up".)

So, yes, I do think retirement goals change around 50 - mostly because "retirement" pops up on the horizon OR you see other people in your circle of family/friends/acquaintances getting to retirement age and making plans/changes in the years before the Big Day. :)

At 40 I started to seriously think about my "retirement" future (because I was seeing people in their mid 50's start to talk about it (and look a little worried/unsure)). I set a "pie in the sky" goal to be able to retire (reach Financial Independence) at 55. I didn't want to be in my 50's and get the "deer in the headlights" look I was seeing on other people's faces when they talked about their own 'retirement'. That gave me 15 years to get my "ducks in a row". I did NOT make that pie in the sky goal.... but I am ever so glad I started the journey and worked towards it. I will reach my goal at 59.5/60 years old. I could "coast FIre" today at 57.5 and be ok. (the next 12 to 24 months are the equivalent of "working an extra year or two just to seal the deal.)

The "retirement at X date" journey isn't just about "saving as much as possible and putting off all sorts of fun stuff." Well, not if the finish line is 15 or 20 years away. It's about thinking about what you think your retirement will look like (what things will do? where might you live? Who will you spend time with?). If you don't have "hobbies" or different groups of friends - now might be the time to start trying new things for fun (it's ok if something you chose doesn't turn out to be a "forever hobby").
What it's all about is balance -- It's about being better able to make financial decisions today that move you towards your long term goals. So, travel or hobby expenses or whatever it is that you like to spend money on are part of the plan along with the saving/investing.


No matter what - if you have just been coasting along with some "investment" plan and not paying much attention to your investments or how much you are saving and don't pay much attention to how much you do spend.... NOW is the time to take an active interest (you don't have to change anything - but it's really helpful to KNOW what your yearly expenses are, what expenses are coming up (new car? new roof? college for kids? whatever). Unless you like drama and stress.. then just wait until the last minute to figure that kind of stuff out. :)
secondopinion
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by secondopinion »

LittleMaggieMae wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 1:23 pm
Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
As has been pointed out - life happens - you may lose your job in your mid 50's and have trouble finding employment when you were expecting to be gainfully employed for another 15 years (70), you may experience health issues and may find working to 70 impossible or very difficult.

There is also the fact that your work place (and job and skill set) may need to change dramatically during the next 10,15, 20, or 30 years. The work you are doing today may not be the work you are doing 15 years from now (and you may not enjoy it as much or may not want to "keep up".)

So, yes, I do think retirement goals change around 50 - mostly because "retirement" pops up on the horizon OR you see other people in your circle of family/friends/acquaintances getting to retirement age and making plans/changes in the years before the Big Day. :)

At 40 I started to seriously think about my "retirement" future (because I was seeing people in their mid 50's start to talk about it (and look a little worried/unsure)). I set a "pie in the sky" goal to be able to retire (reach Financial Independence) at 55. I didn't want to be in my 50's and get the "deer in the headlights" look I was seeing on other people's faces when they talked about their own 'retirement'. That gave me 15 years to get my "ducks in a row". I did NOT make that pie in the sky goal.... but I am ever so glad I started the journey and worked towards it. I will reach my goal at 59.5/60 years old. I could "coast FIre" today at 57.5 and be ok. (the next 12 to 24 months are the equivalent of "working an extra year or two just to seal the deal.)

The "retirement at X date" journey isn't just about "saving as much as possible and putting off all sorts of fun stuff." Well, not if the finish line is 15 or 20 years away. It's about thinking about what you think your retirement will look like (what things will do? where might you live? Who will you spend time with?). If you don't have "hobbies" or different groups of friends - now might be the time to start trying new things for fun (it's ok if something you chose doesn't turn out to be a "forever hobby").
What it's all about is balance -- It's about being better able to make financial decisions today that move you towards your long term goals. So, travel or hobby expenses or whatever it is that you like to spend money on are part of the plan along with the saving/investing.


No matter what - if you have just been coasting along with some "investment" plan and not paying much attention to your investments or how much you are saving and don't pay much attention to how much you do spend.... NOW is the time to take an active interest (you don't have to change anything - but it's really helpful to KNOW what your yearly expenses are, what expenses are coming up (new car? new roof? college for kids? whatever). Unless you like drama and stress.. then just wait until the last minute to figure that kind of stuff out. :)
I have yet to understand the phrase "pie in the sky". Would the pie just fall down (and possibly the wrong side down)?

That aside, I save based on what will give me the best bang for the buck now or later. If that bang for the buck is not now or almost now versus later, then I invest it; it is that simple. If I look and I can retire soundly, then I will retire; if I am forced into retirement early, then I hope what I saved is enough. What else can I do if I save nearly everything extra?
Passive investing: not about making big bucks but making profits. Active investing: not about beating the market but meeting goals. Speculation: not about timing the market but taking profitable risks.
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Garco
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Garco »

Carousel wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:30 am
Garco wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:03 pm My goals were general ones. I'll number them but not rank them in priority. I've met these goals, but there is always some uncertainty and change.
...
2. Have my children through college (and free of debt), with settled family situations, and established in good careers.
I'm curious about this one. I understand how funding their education could be a goal for you, but marriage/children & careers--isn't that on them?

(No kids myself, come from a big family with a lot of problems, interested to hear your perspective on this.)
Our children's education was important to us as parents and to them as a matter of self-development and having good career opportunities. So far this has gone very well for them. One has built an excellent career and a public reputation in his field -- as well as a great financial situation for himself. We paid for his education. The rest was on him.

The other one has an unusual combination of credentials with a background in art/design, environmental studies, and business. Earned a BFA and an MBA. Again, we paid for the education.
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by 4nursebee »

Dantheman19 wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:00 pm Odd question, but I was hoping some had tips for developing retirement goals. Almost all retirement plans start with the question about goals. I am 40 and I have no idea what my goals are. I am also worried my goals will change. For example, I presently wouldn’t mind working until 70, but I may change my mind at 50.

Do retirement goals substantially change after 40?

I realize I could just save a much as possible, but that seems risky (not enjoying money now) if I don’t have a goal that requires that much money for retirement.
How?
Just do it.
Start.
Put the pen to paper.

Absent a goal I aim without a target, just wander.

Yes, one gets to decide where to live on the consume now vs save curve, but do choose, don’t just end up somewhere.

Money buy freedom.

My initial $target was based upon income replacement at the prevailing risk free CD rate of return at the time. By starting with this we were able to undertake actions, then evaluate and adapt as we went along. Goals got more specific, actions and outcomes improved.

But as to how? Jeez, just start, dream, do it. Get off your bum!
Pale Blue Dot
Carousel
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Carousel »

Garco wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:28 pm
Carousel wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:30 am
Garco wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:03 pm My goals were general ones. I'll number them but not rank them in priority. I've met these goals, but there is always some uncertainty and change.
...
2. Have my children through college (and free of debt), with settled family situations, and established in good careers.
I'm curious about this one. I understand how funding their education could be a goal for you, but marriage/children & careers--isn't that on them?

(No kids myself, come from a big family with a lot of problems, interested to hear your perspective on this.)
Our children's education was important to us as parents and to them as a matter of self-development and having good career opportunities. So far this has gone very well for them. One has built an excellent career and a public reputation in his field -- as well as a great financial situation for himself. We paid for his education. The rest was on him.

The other one has an unusual combination of credentials with a background in art/design, environmental studies, and business. Earned a BFA and an MBA. Again, we paid for the education.
Okay. It sounds like your goal was to fund their education. Got it. (Because you listed their careers and family situations on your goals list, I wondered if you were selecting careers, approving spouses, or arranging marriages. I have several friends who have followed parental plans on these points.)
tryonthis
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by tryonthis »

If you are fortunate enough to be able to live comfortably and put money away, you might consider building assets to support charitable causes. I'm retired now and realize I won't spend all of my money before I pass. So I look for local needs like community food banks or minority programs that provide opportunities for people to improve their prospects. These things improve overall quality of our community. It's a worthy endeavor to pay forward the helping hand and blessings that you received along your journey.
SGM
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by SGM »

I think it is a constant ongoing process as laws and assets change over time. I changed careers at 42. When I was 40 I thought I would stay with one employer and collect a large pension. I later started my own business.

At age 60 I started thinking about SS and chose to delay SS until 70. In 2010 after the law allowed Roth conversions regardless of income, I started conversions.

In my 70s I established an estate plan with the assistance of an attorney.

IRMAA costs changed my attitude toward increased income. The laws prior to 2016 allowed file and suspend for SS while DW took SS based on my amount at FRA and then she switched to her own at 70.
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Garco
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Garco »

Carousel wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:37 am
Garco wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:28 pm
Carousel wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:30 am
Garco wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:03 pm My goals were general ones. I'll number them but not rank them in priority. I've met these goals, but there is always some uncertainty and change.
...
2. Have my children through college (and free of debt), with settled family situations, and established in good careers.
I'm curious about this one. I understand how funding their education could be a goal for you, but marriage/children & careers--isn't that on them?

(No kids myself, come from a big family with a lot of problems, interested to hear your perspective on this.)
Our children's education was important to us as parents and to them as a matter of self-development and having good career opportunities. So far this has gone very well for them. One has built an excellent career and a public reputation in his field -- as well as a great financial situation for himself. We paid for his education. The rest was on him.

The other one has an unusual combination of credentials with a background in art/design, environmental studies, and business. Earned a BFA and an MBA. Again, we paid for the education.
Okay. It sounds like your goal was to fund their education. Got it. (Because you listed their careers and family situations on your goals list, I wondered if you were selecting careers, approving spouses, or arranging marriages. I have several friends who have followed parental plans on these points.)
Now I see that you are being deliberately provocative and (in my opinion) uninformed. Do you have children? How old are they? I stated clearly that I wanted my children to have an opportunity to have good careers. I DIDN'T TELL THEM WHAT THOSE CAREERS WOULD BE. We provided financial support and advice. Neither of them patterned their career on mine or my spouse's. They were encouraged to find their own interests, set their own goals. Neither has a career that we defined or suggested. They discovered their strengths, took initiatives that have worked well for them so far. Now in their early 40's, they are financially independent and have established professional reputations.
Carousel
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Re: How to develop retirement goals

Post by Carousel »

Garco wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 6:43 pm
Carousel wrote: Wed Sep 22, 2021 8:37 am
Garco wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 9:28 pm
Carousel wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:30 am
Garco wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 7:03 pm My goals were general ones. I'll number them but not rank them in priority. I've met these goals, but there is always some uncertainty and change.
...
2. Have my children through college (and free of debt), with settled family situations, and established in good careers.
I'm curious about this one. I understand how funding their education could be a goal for you, but marriage/children & careers--isn't that on them?

(No kids myself, come from a big family with a lot of problems, interested to hear your perspective on this.)
Our children's education was important to us as parents and to them as a matter of self-development and having good career opportunities. So far this has gone very well for them. One has built an excellent career and a public reputation in his field -- as well as a great financial situation for himself. We paid for his education. The rest was on him.

The other one has an unusual combination of credentials with a background in art/design, environmental studies, and business. Earned a BFA and an MBA. Again, we paid for the education.
Okay. It sounds like your goal was to fund their education. Got it. (Because you listed their careers and family situations on your goals list, I wondered if you were selecting careers, approving spouses, or arranging marriages. I have several friends who have followed parental plans on these points.)
Now I see that you are being deliberately provocative and (in my opinion) uninformed. Do you have children? How old are they? I stated clearly that I wanted my children to have an opportunity to have good careers. I DIDN'T TELL THEM WHAT THOSE CAREERS WOULD BE. We provided financial support and advice. Neither of them patterned their career on mine or my spouse's. They were encouraged to find their own interests, set their own goals. Neither has a career that we defined or suggested. They discovered their strengths, took initiatives that have worked well for them so far. Now in their early 40's, they are financially independent and have established professional reputations.
Garco, I am confused by this response.
I clearly stated that I have no children.
My friends who followed careers chosen by their parents & married approved spouses or entered into arranged marriages are successful and generally happy with their situations. It sounds like you have a negative view of this, but I don't. It's worked out well for them--their situations are better than many of my multi-generational American friends. (The folks I'm thinking of are Korean, Indian, and Taiwanese-American. I should note that I haven't seen some of them since grad school, so I'm not 100% up-to-date.)

When I read your goals list I thought you might be from a group with a cultural tradition of helping children choose careers/spouses & I was interested in what you had to say on the matter.

Best wishes.
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