Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Post Reply
Topic Author
Whitecap
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:34 pm

Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by Whitecap »

I am looking to rebalance my equities holdings to 80% S&P / 20% international. I have different S&P accounts that are available to me, but adjusting my VIIIX with take a lot more movement of accounts to increase my allocations to their desired holdings. Bottom line - buying SWPPX would be a simple transaction, buying VIIIX would be much for work involved due to multiple different work accounts.

The principal of Occam’s razor states that when two things are equal, the simplest solution is typically correct. When I compare SWPPX and VIIIX their stats look exactly the same (to an untrained novice like me), BUT their Morningstar review has VIIIX as a 5 start rating with returns at “high”, while SWPPX has a Morningstar rating of 4stars and returns of “above average”. They both look like they track the same index almost flawlessly, it seems to me. But, I know that I know nuthin’.

https://research.tdameritrade.com/grid/ ... VuZHMifQ==

Is there any difference between these funds that would make you pick one over the other?

Thank you in advance,
Whitecap
:happy
Silk McCue
Posts: 8912
Joined: Thu Feb 25, 2016 6:11 pm

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by Silk McCue »

If held in a Taxable account the Vanguard Fund is more tax efficient due to VGs patented process. Apart from that there is no meaningful difference.

Cheers
User avatar
typical.investor
Posts: 5247
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 3:17 am

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by typical.investor »

Silk McCue wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:25 am If held in a Taxable account the Vanguard Fund is more tax efficient due to VGs patented process. Apart from that there is no meaningful difference.

Cheers
Actually, they are equally tax efficient in taxable.

It’s only ETFs, or mutual funds with an ETF class share, that are more tax efficient.

You can see VIIIX distributions including capital gains distributions here.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... ions/viiix
User avatar
grabiner
Advisory Board
Posts: 35265
Joined: Tue Feb 20, 2007 10:58 pm
Location: Columbia, MD

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by grabiner »

Whitecap wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am I am looking to rebalance my equities holdings to 80% S&P / 20% international. I have different S&P accounts that are available to me, but adjusting my VIIIX with take a lot more movement of accounts to increase my allocations to their desired holdings. Bottom line - buying SWPPX would be a simple transaction, buying VIIIX would be much for work involved due to multiple different work accounts.

The principal of Occam’s razor states that when two things are equal, the simplest solution is typically correct. When I compare SWPPX and VIIIX their stats look exactly the same (to an untrained novice like me), BUT their Morningstar review has VIIIX as a 5 start rating with returns at “high”, while SWPPX has a Morningstar rating of 4stars and returns of “above average”. They both look like they track the same index almost flawlessly, it seems to me. But, I know that I know nuthin’.
What I think happened here is that the Vanguard fund deserved 4.51 stars (that is, it had one of the worst performances among 5-star funds) and the Schwab fund deserved 4.49 stars for 10-year performance. Morningstar awards a whole number of stars, which makes them 4 and 5.

The expense ratios are equal now, but I believe Schwab's used to be higher, and this accounts for much of the 0.06% difference in 10-year returns. (There are also random tracking errors of a few basis points.)
Wiki David Grabiner
Topic Author
Whitecap
Posts: 147
Joined: Wed Dec 09, 2020 8:34 pm

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by Whitecap »

Thank you all much. I really appreciate your interest here, and your replies. I’ll be selling, then buying SWPPX in just a quick couple of clicks.

Thanks much,
Whitecap
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13438
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by jeffyscott »

typical.investor wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 12:09 pm
Silk McCue wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:25 am If held in a Taxable account the Vanguard Fund is more tax efficient due to VGs patented process. Apart from that there is no meaningful difference.

Cheers
Actually, they are equally tax efficient in taxable.

It’s only ETFs, or mutual funds with an ETF class share, that are more tax efficient.

You can see VIIIX distributions including capital gains distributions here.

https://investor.vanguard.com/mutual-fu ... ions/viiix
So VIIIX, with minimum investment of $100,000,000, is a separate mutual fund and not a share class of Vanguard 500 Index Fund (VFIAX and VOO). Thus those individuals with $100,000,000 to invest in an S&P 500 mutual fund in a taxable account would still be better off using VFIAX.

And, of course, those with less than that amount would likely be better off with VFIAX over SWPPX in a taxable account.
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13438
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by jeffyscott »

grabiner wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:17 pm
Whitecap wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am I am looking to rebalance my equities holdings to 80% S&P / 20% international. I have different S&P accounts that are available to me, but adjusting my VIIIX with take a lot more movement of accounts to increase my allocations to their desired holdings. Bottom line - buying SWPPX would be a simple transaction, buying VIIIX would be much for work involved due to multiple different work accounts.

The principal of Occam’s razor states that when two things are equal, the simplest solution is typically correct. When I compare SWPPX and VIIIX their stats look exactly the same (to an untrained novice like me), BUT their Morningstar review has VIIIX as a 5 start rating with returns at “high”, while SWPPX has a Morningstar rating of 4stars and returns of “above average”. They both look like they track the same index almost flawlessly, it seems to me. But, I know that I know nuthin’.
What I think happened here is that the Vanguard fund deserved 4.51 stars (that is, it had one of the worst performances among 5-star funds) and the Schwab fund deserved 4.49 stars for 10-year performance. Morningstar awards a whole number of stars, which makes them 4 and 5.

The expense ratios are equal now, but I believe Schwab's used to be higher, and this accounts for much of the 0.06% difference in 10-year returns. (There are also random tracking errors of a few basis points.)
Schwab's ER was 0.09% 10 years ago and then 0.03% as of 2017 and 0.02% as of 2019:
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-sp-5 ... start.html
https://www.investmentnews.com/another- ... unds-70510
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... s/a1185318

Maybe the the much smaller asset base of SWPPX is a factor, too?
UpperNwGuy
Posts: 9446
Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:42 am
grabiner wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:17 pm
Whitecap wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am I am looking to rebalance my equities holdings to 80% S&P / 20% international. I have different S&P accounts that are available to me, but adjusting my VIIIX with take a lot more movement of accounts to increase my allocations to their desired holdings. Bottom line - buying SWPPX would be a simple transaction, buying VIIIX would be much for work involved due to multiple different work accounts.

The principal of Occam’s razor states that when two things are equal, the simplest solution is typically correct. When I compare SWPPX and VIIIX their stats look exactly the same (to an untrained novice like me), BUT their Morningstar review has VIIIX as a 5 start rating with returns at “high”, while SWPPX has a Morningstar rating of 4stars and returns of “above average”. They both look like they track the same index almost flawlessly, it seems to me. But, I know that I know nuthin’.
What I think happened here is that the Vanguard fund deserved 4.51 stars (that is, it had one of the worst performances among 5-star funds) and the Schwab fund deserved 4.49 stars for 10-year performance. Morningstar awards a whole number of stars, which makes them 4 and 5.

The expense ratios are equal now, but I believe Schwab's used to be higher, and this accounts for much of the 0.06% difference in 10-year returns. (There are also random tracking errors of a few basis points.)
Schwab's ER was 0.09% 10 years ago and then 0.03% as of 2017 and 0.02% as of 2019:
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-sp-5 ... start.html
https://www.investmentnews.com/another- ... unds-70510
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... s/a1185318

Maybe the the much smaller asset base of SWPPX is a factor, too?
$66 billion is a small asset base? It's one of the larger mutual funds out there.
User avatar
jeffyscott
Posts: 13438
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am

Re: Difference between Viiix and SWPPX?

Post by jeffyscott »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 9:49 am
jeffyscott wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 8:42 am
grabiner wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 6:17 pm
Whitecap wrote: Sun Sep 19, 2021 9:01 am I am looking to rebalance my equities holdings to 80% S&P / 20% international. I have different S&P accounts that are available to me, but adjusting my VIIIX with take a lot more movement of accounts to increase my allocations to their desired holdings. Bottom line - buying SWPPX would be a simple transaction, buying VIIIX would be much for work involved due to multiple different work accounts.

The principal of Occam’s razor states that when two things are equal, the simplest solution is typically correct. When I compare SWPPX and VIIIX their stats look exactly the same (to an untrained novice like me), BUT their Morningstar review has VIIIX as a 5 start rating with returns at “high”, while SWPPX has a Morningstar rating of 4stars and returns of “above average”. They both look like they track the same index almost flawlessly, it seems to me. But, I know that I know nuthin’.
What I think happened here is that the Vanguard fund deserved 4.51 stars (that is, it had one of the worst performances among 5-star funds) and the Schwab fund deserved 4.49 stars for 10-year performance. Morningstar awards a whole number of stars, which makes them 4 and 5.

The expense ratios are equal now, but I believe Schwab's used to be higher, and this accounts for much of the 0.06% difference in 10-year returns. (There are also random tracking errors of a few basis points.)
Schwab's ER was 0.09% 10 years ago and then 0.03% as of 2017 and 0.02% as of 2019:
https://www.mymoneyblog.com/schwab-sp-5 ... start.html
https://www.investmentnews.com/another- ... unds-70510
https://citywireusa.com/professional-bu ... s/a1185318

Maybe the the much smaller asset base of SWPPX is a factor, too?
$66 billion is a small asset base? It's one of the larger mutual funds out there.
I only meant much smaller than the Vanguard or Fidelity funds, which are in the $250/350 bil range. The differences in expense adjusted performance appear to be only about a BP or two.
Post Reply