[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
nalor511
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nalor511 »

Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Clearly they follow the forum and noticed all the comments about how Flagship doesn't really have any benefits any longer...

New benefit at Vanguard with $1mm+ in assets: Secure Messaging
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Stinky
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Stinky »

Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
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Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Whakamole »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm Perhaps this will translate to lower fund expense ratios for those of us who hold Vanguard funds but hold them at other brokerages. But the cynical side of me suspects that any cost-savings will not be passed along to "client-owners." Time will tell.
That may be the idea - Vanguard runs funds, they don't have a brokerage. The problem is that their funds become commodities and it's a race to the bottom. It's not even clear Vanguard has a superior cost structure since competing ETFs are the same price or within a basis point for Total Market, S&P 500, Total Bond, etc.

There's always the concern that Schwab or Fidelity could take their precious metals fund and turn it into some odd cyclical industries fund, but I find that extremely unlikely :twisted:
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

I sent a message to my Flagship rep asking. I noticed that where it used to say 1-2 days for a reply it now says they are busy and 3-5 days. Huh.
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Doc
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Doc »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
2. My dedicated senior financial consultant by direct email
3. His senior financial consultant partner by direct phone line
4. His senior financial consultant partner by direct email
5. Schwab customer service by phone 24/7
6. Schwab customer service by live chat, M-F 9am-9pm
7. Schwab customer service by secure message
Or I can go to her office during business hours or even walk over to her house (after making sure her husband is home of course.) :D
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Doom&Gloom »

I seem to be Voyager Select, but whatever I am, I do not see a pop-up. Pop-up blocker?

I do find it odd that they phrased it "In August" rather than "Beginning in August." Perhaps bringing it back later in a different form?

I find it terribly inconsiderate to post this on the last working day of July. I absolutely hate companies that make it impossible to contact a person when there is an issue. The only thing I hate nearly as badly is having to talk to someone on the phone if it is not absolutely necessary.

I'm not sure I have ever had need to send Vanguard a secure message, so I don't know whether to shrug, be outraged, or be confused.
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 pm Your point still stands, but you're comparing and enumerating your elite level at Schwab based on assets to the most basic access level at Vanguard. Some still have secure messages and even a relationship manager with whom appointments can be scheduled (outside PAS). If you were still at Vanguard, you probably would as well. Maybe that also goes away in the short-term future.
All Schwab customers can reach Schwab by phone 24/7, by live chat (during the hours noted) and by secure message.

Dedicated financial consultants at Schwab only require assets of $250k or above, well below the $1m that Vanguard required to assign a dedicated representative. I had one of those at Vanguard but was one of the many Flagship customers who "lost" their dedicated representative and was routed instead to a pool of representatives.

So while I don't know whether I would still have secure messaging if I had remained at Vanguard, I think it would be highly unlikely that Vanguard would have "reinstated" a dedicated representative on my account.
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nedsaid
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nedsaid »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm It would make sense for Vanguard to task at least one employee with monitoring this forum, even if infrequently. Maybe they can sense the amount of pushback this decision would cause.
Doing my best Ernestine imitation, "We are the phone company and we don't care."

https://vimeo.com/355556831
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

Doc wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:53 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
2. My dedicated senior financial consultant by direct email
3. His senior financial consultant partner by direct phone line
4. His senior financial consultant partner by direct email
5. Schwab customer service by phone 24/7
6. Schwab customer service by live chat, M-F 9am-9pm
7. Schwab customer service by secure message
Or I can go to her office during business hours or even walk over to her house (after making sure her husband is home of course.) :D
:oops: Completely forgot about being able to go to the office! Make that number eight on the list! (You can add going to your consultant's house as number nine on your list, but unless I'm invited over for dinner and drinks, I'm not popping by my consultant's house...) :beer
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

nedsaid wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:58 pm
gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm It would make sense for Vanguard to task at least one employee with monitoring this forum, even if infrequently. Maybe they can sense the amount of pushback this decision would cause.
Doing my best Ernestine imitation, "We are the phone company and we don't care."

https://vimeo.com/355556831
That analogy doesn't seem very on point. There isn't lots of lock in to Vanguard as a brokerage/custodian given that you can port most (all?) of their funds elsewhere without massive amounts of work.
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Doc
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Doc »

I am a great fan of Vanguard mutual funds and ETFs. We currently have 25% of our assets in Vanguard funds or ETFS which is more than any other firm and until I moved to direct Treasuries some 18 months ago we were at 50%.

On the other hand assets at Vanguard Brokerage itself are less than 10% of our total portfolio.

I don't care about their message center being removed
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
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nedsaid
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nedsaid »

Da5id wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:01 pm
nedsaid wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:58 pm
gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm It would make sense for Vanguard to task at least one employee with monitoring this forum, even if infrequently. Maybe they can sense the amount of pushback this decision would cause.
Doing my best Ernestine imitation, "We are the phone company and we don't care."

https://vimeo.com/355556831
That analogy doesn't seem very on point. There isn't lots of lock in to Vanguard as a brokerage/custodian given that you can port most (all?) of their funds elsewhere without massive amounts of work.
The point was regarding the complaints about Vanguard customer service not their asset management. Raising the point that perhaps they are getting so big that they don't care about customer comments and feedback.

You are correct that you can hold Vanguard ETFs and mutual funds anywhere but that is beside the point made here. I suppose you could go to Fidelity and buy Vanguard ETFs if you still want Vanguard products but better service.

Even Alan Roth complained on his Twitter feed that Vanguard seemed uninterested in his business. Vanguard did see that and made things right but most of us are not Alan Roth. When Mr. Roth complains, there is a problem. As I recall, the issue was a $100,000 plus check that was not processed and there wasn't much interest in correcting that until they saw it on Twitter. Not good.
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Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Whakamole »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:00 pm
Doc wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:53 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
2. My dedicated senior financial consultant by direct email
3. His senior financial consultant partner by direct phone line
4. His senior financial consultant partner by direct email
5. Schwab customer service by phone 24/7
6. Schwab customer service by live chat, M-F 9am-9pm
7. Schwab customer service by secure message
Or I can go to her office during business hours or even walk over to her house (after making sure her husband is home of course.) :D
:oops: Completely forgot about being able to go to the office! Make that number eight on the list! (You can add going to your consultant's house as number nine on your list, but unless I'm invited over for dinner and drinks, I'm not popping by my consultant's house...) :beer
Are there limits on what you can do after-hours on the 24/7 lines? Typically I've found some things need to be done during normal business hours only.

Someone should put together a similar list for Fidelity. We definitely have secure message/chat/phone, offices, and if you want consultants though I've never used them.
lws
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by lws »

Bad move. Love secure messaging. Use it all the time.
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midareff
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by midareff »

u must be over the 30 message a month limit....
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

nedsaid wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:10 pm
Da5id wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:01 pm
nedsaid wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:58 pm
gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 1:15 pm It would make sense for Vanguard to task at least one employee with monitoring this forum, even if infrequently. Maybe they can sense the amount of pushback this decision would cause.
Doing my best Ernestine imitation, "We are the phone company and we don't care."

https://vimeo.com/355556831
That analogy doesn't seem very on point. There isn't lots of lock in to Vanguard as a brokerage/custodian given that you can port most (all?) of their funds elsewhere without massive amounts of work.
The point was regarding the complaints about Vanguard customer service not their asset management. Raising the point that perhaps they are getting so big that they don't care about customer comments and feedback.

You are correct that you can hold Vanguard ETFs and mutual funds anywhere but that is beside the point made here. I suppose you could go to Fidelity and buy Vanguard ETFs if you still want Vanguard products but better service.

Even Alan Roth complained on his Twitter feed that Vanguard seemed uninterested in his business. Vanguard did see that and made things right but most of us are not Alan Roth. When Mr. Roth complains, there is a problem. As I recall, the issue was a $100,000 plus check that was not processed and there wasn't much interest in correcting that until they saw it on Twitter. Not good.
My point about the analogy was that AT&T didn't care before the forced Baby Bell breakup because you couldn't leave. If you wanted phone service there was no alternative. Vanguard is easy to leave, plenty of competing brokerages with identical or comparable products.
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Nate79
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Nate79 »

Luckily you are all owners so maybe you should have a shareholder initiative to improve customer service and add back secure messaging (maybe add in chat feature). You could do this at their annual meeting and get everyone to vote for it?

Oh wait......
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:13 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:00 pm
Doc wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:53 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
2. My dedicated senior financial consultant by direct email
3. His senior financial consultant partner by direct phone line
4. His senior financial consultant partner by direct email
5. Schwab customer service by phone 24/7
6. Schwab customer service by live chat, M-F 9am-9pm
7. Schwab customer service by secure message
Or I can go to her office during business hours or even walk over to her house (after making sure her husband is home of course.) :D
:oops: Completely forgot about being able to go to the office! Make that number eight on the list! (You can add going to your consultant's house as number nine on your list, but unless I'm invited over for dinner and drinks, I'm not popping by my consultant's house...) :beer
Are there limits on what you can do after-hours on the 24/7 lines? Typically I've found some things need to be done during normal business hours only.

Someone should put together a similar list for Fidelity. We definitely have secure message/chat/phone, offices, and if you want consultants though I've never used them.
I'm sure that there are likely some things that won't be accomplished until the next business day even with 24/7 customer service, but I think about situations like one Boglehead experienced at Vanguard where 24/7 support would have been very useful.

In that case, VG messed up a dividend distribution and in correcting their own error they pulled funds from that poster's settlement account on a Friday. Seeing that unauthorized withdrawal of funds the following day (Saturday) and unable to reach Vanguard, that poster wisely sent a fraud alert to Vanguard. The poster later learned the nature of Vanguard's error but by that point the account had been locked down and nobody that the poster could reach at Vanguard could assist him in resolving the now locked account. Had he been able to reach someone at Vanguard on Saturday, they may have been able to explain the issue (just as they did when OP eventually could reach them) and avoided the fraud alert and locking of that poster's account.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=352345
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ResearchMed
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by ResearchMed »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:17 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
2. My dedicated senior financial consultant by direct email
3. His senior financial consultant partner by direct phone line
4. His senior financial consultant partner by direct email
5. Schwab customer service by phone 24/7
6. Schwab customer service by live chat, M-F 9am-9pm
7. Schwab customer service by secure message

And now at Vanguard?

1. Vanguard customer service by phone, M-F (except holidays), 8am-10pm eastern time

Perhaps this will translate to lower fund expense ratios for those of us who hold Vanguard funds but hold them at other brokerages. But the cynical side of me suspects that any cost-savings will not be passed along to "client-owners." Time will tell.
Your point still stands, but you're comparing and enumerating your elite level at Schwab based on assets to the most basic access level at Vanguard. Some still have secure messages and even a relationship manager with whom appointments can be scheduled (outside PAS). If you were still at Vanguard, you probably would as well. Maybe that also goes away in the short-term future.
We have a small account at Schwab, until we can access 403b monies and transfer a bunch to them.

We also have access to a financial consultant, but no idea of the 'level'. However, we have asked them not to bother us unless we ask for something. The few times we did, there was immediate response.
We do use the chat, with great success. Amazing, actually.
Don't like "secure messaging" - if we are gping that route, prefer direct email.
ZERO complaints.
Indeed, they were incredibly helpful setting up late MIL's trust account, including accepting HER DPOA, and not requiring their own form, etc.

They'll be our primary if things remain as is.
Our major University moved their 403b from Vanguare to TIAA last year (already had Trad Ann and TREA access along with a few CREF funds).
We'll keep TIAA in the future because of Trad Ann, and a few other holdings. Great representative locally.
We've each kept small accounts at Vanguard, and I'm trying to remember "why?!?". :(

RM
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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gwe67
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by gwe67 »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
Doesn't matter whether you are flagship or not. It has to do with your pop-up blocker.
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
I can see it now from the Vanguard PR folks:
Introducing an exciting new benefit just for our most loyal Flagship-level customers! Flagship Semaphore Service®

Reach out to us at your convenience, 24/7, by simply sending us a message. You can look forward to a reply within three to five business days.

Flagship Semaphore Service® Exclusively for Flagship-level customers and exclusively at Vanguard.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:09 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
Doesn't matter whether you are flagship or not. It has to do with your pop-up blocker.
I have popup blocking disabled for the vanguard.com domain, didn't see the message. Are you saying you are Flagship and saw it with pop-ups enabled?
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gwe67
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by gwe67 »

Da5id wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:19 pm
gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:09 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
Doesn't matter whether you are flagship or not. It has to do with your pop-up blocker.
I have popup blocking disabled for the vanguard.com domain, didn't see the message. Are you saying you are Flagship and saw it with pop-ups enabled?
Yes.
VTI 48%, VXUS 12%, BND 40%
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Stinky
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Stinky »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:20 pm
Da5id wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:19 pm
gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:09 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
Doesn't matter whether you are flagship or not. It has to do with your pop-up blocker.
I have popup blocking disabled for the vanguard.com domain, didn't see the message. Are you saying you are Flagship and saw it with pop-ups enabled?
Yes.
Well, I guess that we Flagship folk will find out the real answer "sometime in August"
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:15 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:04 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:40 pm
Grasshopper wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:18 pm Made me look, Flagship here no mention of messaging going away.
Ditto.
Same here!

Broken Man 1999
I can see it now from the Vanguard PR folks:
Introducing an exciting new benefit just for our most loyal Flagship-level customers! Flagship Semaphore Service®

Reach out to us at your convenience, 24/7, by simply sending us a message. You can look forward to a reply within three to five business days.

Flagship Semaphore Service® Exclusively for Flagship-level customers and exclusively at Vanguard.
Works for me. Maybe they can turn it into a service to make a few bucks. Give everyone two freebies a year, then start charging for the third message. I could sell my unused messages and make some bucks for myself, even.

No messages sent this year so far. I had one call to convert a MF to and ETF. Thattttts alllllll, folks!

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
hi_there
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by hi_there »

This seems like absurd and incredibly stingy cost cutting on the part of Vanguard. Obviously, it would be unacceptable to not give their customers access to a help phone number. So, instead, Vanguard cuts overhead by removing email access, even though the resources they spend on each email are probably far less than each phone call.

Having worked for a long time in financial services, I think this is a symptom of Vanguard underinvesting or not effectively investing in technology. Not only are their web services relatively unintuitive, probably resulting in more customer queries, but they lack the really amazing AI help tools deployed by other brokerages that will reduce overhead over time. Slashing costs now only causes problems in the future.

Also, to the people who say they call and email Vanguard frequently, seriously what are you asking them? I have sent them a message once in my 13 years as a customer, and that was because of a really rare issue I had with my immigration status. You know, this whole situation is your fault.
Last edited by hi_there on Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by pkcrafter »

When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

hi_there wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:31 pm Also, to the people who say they call and email Vanguard frequently, seriously what are you asking them? I have sent them a message once in my 13 years as a customer, and that was because of a really rare issue I had with my immigration status. You know, this whole situation is your fault.
This comes across as rather judgmental. OK I'll shoot. Both my parents died last year and I had to transition 6 inherited IRAs, some coming from outside of Vanguard from a custodian that was being in many ways a pain about the process. This required a bunch of message and phone interactions. My son graduated college and I had to transition his UMTA. Think there was one or two other things. Most years I message or call them zero or one times, but it happens.
AlwaysLearningMore
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by AlwaysLearningMore »

pkcrafter wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 pm Vanguard customer service :(

https://topratedfirms.com/brokers/custo ... eview.aspx



Paul
If some people think Vanguard has poor customer service, they would like Transamerica even less.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* | FIRE'd July 2023
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by pkcrafter »

AlwaysLearningMore wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:39 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 pm Vanguard customer service :(

https://topratedfirms.com/brokers/custo ... eview.aspx



Paul
If some people think Vanguard has poor customer service, they would like Transamerica even less.
YEP, +1


Paul
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

AlwaysLearningMore wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:39 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:34 pm Vanguard customer service :(

https://topratedfirms.com/brokers/custo ... eview.aspx



Paul
If some people think Vanguard has poor customer service, they would like Transamerica even less.
I used to be split between Fidelity and Vanguard, and consolidated to Vanguard. But I was always fine with Fidelity too, and would be happy to switch there if I became displeased with Vanguard. There are plenty of alternatives...
Faith20879
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Faith20879 »

hi_there wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:31 pm Also, to the people who say they call and email Vanguard frequently, seriously what are you asking them? I have sent them a message once in my 13 years as a customer, and that was because of a really rare issue I had with my immigration status. You know, this whole situation is your fault.
That is a legit question. Here is our situation:

During our 30+ years of cumulation stage, we probably only needed help 3 times, things such as account upgrade and etc.

Once we entered the decumulation stage (this year) we've had to solicit their help 6 times already, things such as consolidating various work place plans, IRAs, and the odd kind of fringe accounts that we couldn't process online.
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nisiprius
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

No such notice on login, no, it's a popup and it was being blocked by my standard Safari browser setting. Shame on them for delivering something important in the form of a popup window, when they must know many of their customers block popup windows...

I certainly expect Vanguard to provide an email-like communications channel... every web-based merchant I know, and, for the last ten years or so, all my doctors. And I would say Vanguard is making random changes to basic account services and doing a really lousy job of communicating about them with customers.

Image
Changes coming to your Message Center

In August, you will no longer be able to contact us through the Message Center. However, electronic statements, confirmations, and important messages from Vanguard will still be available there.

Vanguard Support is here to help! Find answers to your questions through the site's user-friendly search feature and knowledge library, featuring tutorials and interactive tools. From top-trending questions to phone numbers, Vanguard Support has you covered.

Vanguard is committed to improving your experience on our website and mobile app. If you're interested in helping us pilot new digital experiences, please register using the link below.

Sign me up
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:37 am, edited 4 times in total.
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stan1
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by stan1 »

Remember, they are firing their customers slowly but surely. They want to be a low cost asset manager or a low cost asset administrator, not a complementary asset administrator. CMA, Flagship reps for all but a few, coffee cups gone.

Schwab in the past has paid for service by defaulting or forcing customers into low rate cash accounts (less so in last few years due to rates). Fidelity and Schwab make money off their fund marketplaces. Vanguard doesn't do either.
Last edited by stan1 on Fri Jul 30, 2021 9:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by anon_investor »

I think Fidelity would be the logical place to go for Vanguard index mutual fund lovers. With fractional share purchases, you can still buy your favorite Vanguard index in ETF format in dollar amounts.
water2357
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Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by water2357 »

[Merged into existing discussion -- moderator oldcomputerguy]

Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1? I just got a popup message from them today about this. Sometimes the "message center" is the only way to contact them, since their phone service can be extremely poor at times. Vanguard has made various mistakes in just paying dividends and interest where one needs an immediate way to contact them. It's bad enough they have no phone service on weekends, now they are ending their secure email service based on that one popup message. There was no other notification from them. I just went through all of the mailings/contact I've received from them for the last 3 months, there was nothing. So, can any of you provide any insight into what is going on with Vanguard customer service. This latest development is really concerning. I'm wondering what is next?

Also, they did this so that I only found out after hours on July 30th, so there is no way to phone them about it until August, which by then the email customer service will presumably have ended. What are they thinking?

Thanks.
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asset_chaos
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by asset_chaos »

I get neither message nor pop-up (I set pop up blocker off for Vanguard today) when I log in today. On the other hand, as Vanguard knows I'm abroad, maybe that puts me on the special reprieve list.

I find it hard to believe that's it's more cost effective to have people call with every petty question than to message and be able to take a couple of days to respond.

By chance I've messaged 4 times with Vanguard this year, more than I've had to do in the previous 5 years combined. Two of those were due to Vanguard sending me ambiguously worded emails about some of my accounts changing; I asked for clarification. One was starting withdrawls from a 529; it was not immediately obvious how to withdraw. And yes, the reponse message was to look in such-and-such a dropdown menu. The other was a special situation with a check where I really did need them to do something---and they were quite helpful to successfully resolve the situation.

I think only one of those 4 situations would have been resolved with only searching through Vanguard Support documents. And as the special situation required uploading a document through the message center, it couldn't have been resolved solely on the phone anyway.

I don't like it on principle when businesses don't have an email-like way for rapid written communication.
Regards, | | Guy
water2357
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by water2357 »

Vanguard needs to set up a contact for their mistakes. I don't want to contact them for anything I can do online, it's a waste of time. But when they cause the problem they need a way to get it resolved without waiting for hours on the phone, just to speak to someone or waiting 2 days from Friday to Monday to speak to someone.

And I don't get the basically no notice that they are doing away with secure email contact. Are they afraid to be honest with their customers about cutting costs or not being able to hire employees or whatever the problem is. The popup message disappeared, never had a chance to re-read it and could not find any reference to it on their website. Just seems like really bad customer relations.
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anon_investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by anon_investor »

water2357 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 pm Vanguard needs to set up a contact for their mistakes. I don't want to contact them for anything I can do online, it's a waste of time. But when they cause the problem they need a way to get it resolved without waiting for hours on the phone, just to speak to someone or waiting 2 days from Friday to Monday to speak to someone.

And I don't get the basically no notice that they are doing away with secure email contact. Are they afraid to be honest with their customers about cutting costs or not being able to hire employees or whatever the problem is. The popup message disappeared, never had a chance to re-read it and could not find any reference to it on their website. Just seems like really bad customer relations.
I have been with Vanguard for over 2 decades, rarely have I needed to contact them, they are good enough.

I have some 529 plans at Fidelity and they have had great customer service via their version of secure message and on the phone 24/7. If Vanguard falters, I would likely go to Fidelity based on my experience with them.
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quantAndHold
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by quantAndHold »

I’ve only needed to contact Vanguard about once a decade. The last time I did though, during the beginning part of the pandemic, they answered on the first ring.
nalor511
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by nalor511 »

[Disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] - it's a completely reasonably thing for a customer to expect to be able to contact customer service in writing, so there's a record.
amd2135
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by amd2135 »

Wells Fargo also discontinued their secure messaging service July 13th. That action caused me to finally cancel my last account with them. I'm disappointed to see Vanguard follow their lead.

I already have an established relationship with Fidelity and I'm considering moving everything there. I keep seeing posts about VG's slipping customer service. This has me questioning if they'll be there when I need them.

Edit: My wife has a 401k with Fidelity that we were planning to rollover to Vanguard. Fidelity's going to keep the rollover instead as a pilot. If it goes well our Voyager Select account is moving to Fidelity. I don't have time to deal with jumping through hoops to contact a company managing a substantial portion of our net worth.
Last edited by amd2135 on Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:48 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Capster1
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by Capster1 »

Yeah, I saw that as well. I agree, who doesn't have contact via messaging online? Ridiculous.
Luckily, in 13 years I've never had to contact them. However, just look at the website/interface in comparison to something like Fidelity? They are so behind.
Speaking of which, if I have an issue with Fidelity, I can get an online chat going in two seconds and have my problem solved in a jiffy.
water2357
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by water2357 »

I also received the message about no secure email in August. I was at the point of recommending Vanguard to a high value customer but my experience has not been good this year and doing away with secure messaging may be the last straw. I don't want this person to have the same problems I've had with their service. Purchased securities and Vanguard did not follow up to make sure that dividends and interest were paid. I had to contact them numerous times, was made to wait a month before they did anything and then they finally admitted there was a problem that impacted multiple investors. If I had not called, I doubt that anyone would have been paid.

I never phone them or email them for anything I can do on line, it is a waste of time. But Vanguard needs a 24/7 contact for problems that they create. No one should have to wait 2 days from Friday to Monday to contact them about an error in their account, nor should they have to wait from 5PM to the next morning. Those who work can't hang on the phone all day at work waiting for a customer service representative, it's just not feasible. They act like everyone has 8 hours M-F to spend trying to get in touch with them. At least secure messaging provided another option for contact.

In any case, I'm very much rethinking sending a Flagship customer their way. You can't count on any level of service no matter how much money you have with them. All they have done over the last 10 years is take service away. And not notifying their customers until July 30th that secure messaging would be cut off in August, after it is too late to contact them about it is ridiculous. And it appears that those who don't regularly log in have received no notice. I don't like finding out by pure coincidence when someone is cutting out a service. Just really poor, poor policy on Vanguard's part. Vanguard needs to retract this or open up phone service 24/7.
Bama12
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by Bama12 »

I have been with Vanguard for about 25 years. They have never messed up anything.
water2357
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by water2357 »

For those saying they have rarely had to contact Vanguard, then you are lucky or maybe you never noticed their errors. The error I had to deal with impacted multiple investors. If I had not contacted them, presumably no one who owned certain securities would have been paid the earnings on those investments. How can they sell securities and then not follow up to be sure the earnings are paid? And who wants to wait around over a weekend or night to notify them that the income is missing and then wait another month while they state that maybe it was delayed or would come in the next month. Well it never did come in the next month.

Vanguard really needs an error/problem resolution contact at all levels of their service 24/7. Getting rid of secure messaging is not going to help the situation, it will just make it harder to get answers and notify them of problems.
fwellimort
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by fwellimort »

There's a good reason why a lot of Bogleheaders are endorsing/moving to Fidelity (and Schwab).

Now that Vanguard ETFs can be bought in partial shares at Fidelity, many Bogleheaders have moved on to Fidelity for the customer service.
You can have Vanguard products at Fidelity without any issues.
And Fidelity and Schwab are much better in customer service and benefits so... don't hesitate to take best of both worlds. :sharebeer
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JoMoney
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by JoMoney »

nalor511 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:27 pm [Disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] - it's a completely reasonably thing for a customer to expect to be able to contact customer service in writing, so there's a record.
My first Vanguard account was opened through the mail. Maybe they'll go back to doing that. Perhaps dump the brokerage accounts and just sell mutual funds directly to buy-and-hold investors, and get rid of the web page that people complain about being too low-tech altogether. 'Back in the day', there was a phone number I could call to get automated account balance from a menu tree. That worked well enough.
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
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