[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]

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Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:57 am Perhaps they'll offer secure messaging as a reason to "upgrade" their investments with Vanguard? Upgrade to Flagship service and you'll be able to send your rep a secure message..
On the one hand this isn't unreasonable. More service levels for more AUM makes sense, in that it costs Vanguard the same to answer a message from a client with $10K or $10M invested. But on the other hand, if competitors offer a better platform and better services, the lower AUM clients will probably leave Vanguard. And while Vanguard may not care about that in the short term, those clients will presumably some day become the higher AUM customers that Vanguard seems to care more about keeping. And with a negative view of Vanguard they may well not return, and may be less inclined to buy Vanguard funds at other brokerages.
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bertilak
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by bertilak »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:49 am Colossal Cave Adventure was better at understanding natural language than Vanguard's "support" facility is.
Do you remember Sierra's Kings Quest games? I loved that game. They also did not put a lot of artificial intelligence effort into decoding user input. If you said something out of their understanding the most common reply was "You can't do that here." Simple and to the point without pointing fingers, passing judgement, or coming up with nonsense replies.

As you attempted to find your way through the Arthurian landscape you were accompanied by the cheerful chirping of birds. Vanguard should work that in somehow!
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bertilak
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by bertilak »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:56 am Switching isn't that awful, but would involve a fair bit of work on my part to verify that cost basis of my many lots of mutual funds spread across a bunch of accounts at Vanguard wasn't messed up in a switch. And Vanguard has mostly really been good for me. I had lots of interactions this past year with migration of inherited IRAs and they were quite helpful.
For me Switching would be awful. Beside myself I manage or monitor accounts for six other people (relatives), one with multiple accounts. Moving all that around would be quite painful!
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by TedSwippet »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:57 amUpgrade to Flagship service and you'll be able to send your rep a secure message..
Wait ... what ... you still have a named Flagship rep?

My named rep was taken away and replaced by a Flagship "team" a year or so back. As a consequence, several messages I sent trying to get to the bottom of one topic were picked up by entirely different people. Not only was there no continuity, but as an added bonus I got multiple different partial answers. Clearly the reps not only didn't know the answers (perhaps excusable), but also did not bother to research the issue (not excusable).

I sent Vanguard a full-on complaint letter following this debacle; my first one ever. Their response was tardy but at least it was personalised. Unfortunately, it boiled down to "drop dead". That would be the "Voice of the Customer" in action, I guess.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Hyperchicken »

Just logged into my Vanguard Roth IRA account. I was immediately greeted by the same pop-up:
Changes coming to your Message Center

In August, you will no longer be able to contact us through the Message Center. However, electronic statements, confirmations, and important messages from Vanguard will still be available there.

Vanguard Support is here to help! Find answers to your questions through the site's user-friendly search feature and knowledge library, featuring tutorials and interactive tools. From top-trending questions to phone numbers, Vanguard Support has you covered.

Vanguard is committed to improving your experience on our website and mobile app. If you're interested in helping us pilot new digital experiences, please register using the link below.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

TedSwippet wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:20 am
LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:57 amUpgrade to Flagship service and you'll be able to send your rep a secure message..
Wait ... what ... you still have a named Flagship rep?

My named rep was taken away and replaced by a Flagship "team" a year or so back.
I lost mine at the same time. Didn't really care about that have to say, but sounds like it had a negative impact for you in terms of continuity for a specific problem. When I've migrated accounts in the last year I did have the same specialist helping me throughout the process, and they even provided me with their email address.
Last edited by Da5id on Mon Aug 02, 2021 11:37 am, edited 1 time in total.
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jeffyscott
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

nisiprius wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 10:49 am "What is Vanguard's fax number?" evokes
"Did you mean what is vanguard's fix number"


Well, now I do want to know what their fix number is... :D
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beyou
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

If there is any doubt, I had a relative who is NOT Flagship login on my laptop using same browser where I login.
When they login, they get the announcement about secure messaging.
When I login or other family members who ARE Flagship, none of them got the popup message.

Pretty clear this is a now a premium service for Flagship as indicated a couple pages back in this thread.

Personally if I had a smaller account, I would leave. If I couldn't buy Admiral funds I would move to Etrade for free
Vanguard fund trading there, with better online and phone service. They have chat, a log of all chats for YEARS, 24 hour phones, and free open end Vanguard fund trades for ALL customers (not just large ones like at Schwab, on request only).
The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
boglefannyc
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by boglefannyc »

My wife's account is receiving the popup but mine doesn't. Neither of our accounts are Flagship status and we're both on the brokerage platform. The only difference between our accounts is that I opened my Vanguard account much earlier. She received PAS popups much more often and also snail mail PAS advertising , which I have never received.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Stinky »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm If there is any doubt, I had a relative who is NOT Flagship login on my laptop using same browser where I login.
When they login, they get the announcement about secure messaging.
When I login or other family members who ARE Flagship, none of them got the popup message.

Pretty clear this is a now a premium service for Flagship as indicated a couple pages back in this thread.
Great information. Thank you for posting.

I'm at the Flagship level. I guess that I now feel somewhat "special".
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beyou
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
Admiral funds aren't all as expensive to open as they used to be (some still are).
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by DividendMickey »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm If there is any doubt, I had a relative who is NOT Flagship login on my laptop using same browser where I login.
When they login, they get the announcement about secure messaging.
When I login or other family members who ARE Flagship, none of them got the popup message.

Pretty clear this is a now a premium service for Flagship as indicated a couple pages back in this thread.

Personally if I had a smaller account, I would leave. If I couldn't buy Admiral funds I would move to Etrade for free
Vanguard fund trading there, with better online and phone service. They have chat, a log of all chats for YEARS, 24 hour phones, and free open end Vanguard fund trades for ALL customers (not just large ones like at Schwab, on request only).
The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I will be leaving. Unfortunately I have VWAIX, so I do not know what I will do with it at this point.

The unfortunate thing (for VG) is that I am right under that $1M Flagship threshold, but my 401(k) puts me over it. And I would have rolled it to VG on retirement. Now I won't.

I used to tell others only good things about VG, now it will be the opposite. Clearly the calm seas, prosperous voyage investment philosophy and just the general approach to investing (e.g., simplicity, etc.) has little to do with VG's current business plan. Very sad.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:42 pm
Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
Admiral funds aren't all as expensive to open as they used to be (some still are).
Sure. But even if they are one of the 50K minimum funds that is still only 5% of what is needed for Flagship. So may be an issue for some people who are understandably annoyed with this change but don't want to give up their specific Admiral funds.
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ResearchMed
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by ResearchMed »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:42 pm
Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
Admiral funds aren't all as expensive to open as they used to be (some still are).
For those Vanguard funds where the "investor" share class was eliminated, and the "Admiral" share class minimum became the $3k previously for "investor"... are those restricted the same way elsewhere as they used to be when they were really a "higher minimum"/lower ER fund?

Also, in at least some places, even if one cannot purchase a particular Vanguard fund (e.g., previous Admiral fund), IF one transferred-in-kind, one could then buy more.
In fact, at TIAA, we were told we could transfer but then could *not* buy more. However, when I tested that and bought more, it went through just fine.
Note: We still hava a waiver of fees from when our 403b plan was moved. Not sure when that will end, because each time I ask, I keep getting a different date. :annoyed

Perhaps some of these agreements/restrictions are changing at some (?) vendors?

RM
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backpacker61
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by backpacker61 »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:46 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:42 pm
Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
Admiral funds aren't all as expensive to open as they used to be (some still are).
Sure. But even if they are one of the 50K minimum funds that is still only 5% of what is needed for Flagship. So may be an issue for some people who are understandably annoyed with this change but don't want to give up their specific Admiral funds.
When they first came out, Admiral class shares required 100K$ for all funds (IIRC). The levels required for Admiral class declined significantly over the years, even for the actively managed funds, particularly when you consider how much money 100K$ represented at the time Admiral shares first became available (~2000?).
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I just received an answer to the question I posed to Vanguard via email:

Dear Broken Man 1999,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about the ability to send
emails.

Vanguard is always testing new experiences and those experiences may vary
from client to client. When we test out changes to our website and client
experience, we may do so on a smaller scale that doesn’t impact all
clients. This may mean that your experience will differ slightly from
another client’s experience.

There are some clients who will not be able to send us an email.

Please note, at this time you are not affected by this change. You can
still send emails to Vanguard.

For client's that do not have access to email, they can still contact us by
phone or use the easy-to-use self-service help on Vanguard Support. The
support center can be located at the below link.


That is all I know.

Broken Man 1999

ETA: Almost forgot: I also was afforded an opportunity to rate the email service I received. Honestly, I gave the survey all "fives" (highest in satisfaction) because that is what I received.
Last edited by Broken Man 1999 on Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:18 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:34 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 12:31 pm The only gap is many admiral funds, but if you aren't Flagship this likely wont affect you.
I had Admiral funds long before I had Flagship, so perhaps this isn't universally true? Converting to ETFs for index funds would fix most of that for me, though I do have VAIPX (which I think there are alternatives to elsewhere) and VFSUX (would be fine eliminating).
Fidelity has FIPDX which is very similar to VAIPX (shorter duration but same average maturity), with half the ER at 5 bp. They have a short term bond index fund in FNSOX but I'm not familiar with it, except it is more heavily weighted towards treasuries.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by rob »

Orangutan wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:22 am
bertilak wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:12 am The message center is still working so I sent the following:
On boglehead.org I see many posts from people who got a pop-up message from Vanguard saying that this message center is going away.

I have not personally received such a message but my browser (Microsoft Edge) blocks pop-up messages so I would not have seen it.

The text of the message as quoted on bogleheads.org listed other ways of getting answers to questions. NOT ALL MESSAGES ARE QUESTIONS, especially ones that can be answered by reading a FAQ.

So, is it true? Is there more to it?
I await their reply!
This is hilarious. I wonder if anyone from VG monitors this forum.
What's more hilarious is sending a message thru a service that might or might not be up... bit like an admin sending out emails to say that email is back online :-)
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

rob wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:19 pm
Orangutan wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:22 am
bertilak wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:12 am The message center is still working so I sent the following:
On boglehead.org I see many posts from people who got a pop-up message from Vanguard saying that this message center is going away.

I have not personally received such a message but my browser (Microsoft Edge) blocks pop-up messages so I would not have seen it.

The text of the message as quoted on bogleheads.org listed other ways of getting answers to questions. NOT ALL MESSAGES ARE QUESTIONS, especially ones that can be answered by reading a FAQ.

So, is it true? Is there more to it?


I await their reply!
This is hilarious. I wonder if anyone from VG monitors this forum.
What's more hilarious is sending a message thru a service that might or might not be up... bit like an admin sending out emails to say that email is back online :-)
The Message Center is NOT going away!

From an early post of the infamous popup:

"....Changes coming to your Message Center
In August, you will no longer be able to contact us through the Message Center. However, electronic statements, confirmations, and important messages from Vanguard will still be available there...."


The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone. The criteria for seeing the popup or not seeing the popup is unknown, and WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by LadyGeek »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:10 pm I just received an answer to the question I posed to Vanguard via email:

Dear Broken Man 1999,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us about the ability to send
emails.

Vanguard is always testing new experiences and those experiences may vary
from client to client. When we test out changes to our website and client
experience, we may do so on a smaller scale that doesn’t impact all
clients. This may mean that your experience will differ slightly from
another client’s experience.

There are some clients who will not be able to send us an email.

Please note, at this time you are not affected by this change. You can
still send emails to Vanguard.

For client's that do not have access to email, they can still contact us by
phone or use the easy-to-use self-service help on Vanguard Support. The
support center can be located at the below link.


That is all I know.

Broken Man 1999

ETA: Almost forgot: I also was afforded an opportunity to rate the email service I received. Honestly, I gave the survey all "fives" (highest in satisfaction) because that is what I received.
That aligns with the way they "tested" the Portfolio Watch tool. Vanguard Portfolio Watch has a new look [Calculations may be incorrect] (calculations were indeed incorrect)

Are they disabling secure message clients to see if anyone notices? As I've stated earlier, I would never have been able to get my backdoor Roth transaction unwound without it. How do you send them a document securely?

How do they send one back to me? Upload it to Google Drive and share the link?
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bertilak
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by bertilak »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The Message Center is NOT going away!
That seems to be contradicted by ...
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone ... WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.
At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by hornet96 »

Interestingly, my wife's VG account gets the pop up window about the message center changes (got the pop up message twice, each time logging in). My account, however, does not, when I log in. The only difference between our account profiles is:

*My original brokerage account was opened a few years before her own profile was setup to open IRAs. (Although we subsequently transferred and retitled my individual brokerage account into a joint account).

*My profile includes a 529 account (while hers does not show that account). This account *nearly* puts me at the next higher service level (Voyager Select).

So at this point, I think it has something to do with (1) the age of the account, (2) whether you're at or near the Voyager Select threshold, (3) the possibility that the message center changes are being rolled out in stages, and my account just hasn't been flagged yet, or (4) some combination of all of these factors.

I have only rarely needed to contact VG over the last ~10 years, and each time it has been for the usual correction of incorrect cost basis issues. What I'm afraid of is a circumstance where my wife would have to take over the reins, and whether she would be able to contact anyone at VG who knows what they're doing if she has questions about something that may be intuitive to me, but isn't for the vast majority of normal people who don't visit Bogleheads every day.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

hornet96 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:56 pm Interestingly, my wife's VG account gets the pop up window about the message center changes (got the pop up message twice, each time logging in). My account, however, does not, when I log in. The only difference between our account profiles is:

*My original brokerage account was opened a few years before her own profile was setup to open IRAs. (Although we subsequently transferred and retitled my individual brokerage account into a joint account).

*My profile includes a 529 account (while hers does not show that account). This account *nearly* puts me at the next higher service level (Voyager Select).

So at this point, I think it has something to do with (1) the age of the account, (2) whether you're at or near the Voyager Select threshold, (3) the possibility that the message center changes are being rolled out in stages, and my account just hasn't been flagged yet, or (4) some combination of all of these factors.

I have only rarely needed to contact VG over the last ~10 years, and each time it has been for the usual correction of incorrect cost basis issues. What I'm afraid of is a circumstance where my wife would have to take over the reins, and whether she would be able to contact anyone at VG who knows what they're doing if she has questions about something that may be intuitive to me, but isn't for the vast majority of normal people who don't visit Bogleheads every day.
I've been Voyager Select for years and was told secure messaging to Vanguard was going away for me.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:38 pm Are they disabling secure message clients to see if anyone notices? As I've stated earlier, I would never have been able to get my backdoor Roth transaction unwound without it. How do you send them a document securely?

How do they send one back to me? Upload it to Google Drive and share the link?
As I noted above, for some issues migrating an inherited IRA a Vanguard rep whose email-signature said her title was "Case Consultant Senior Associate" gave me her vanguard email address. So I could communicate directly that way, and presumably provide her files via link. Maybe this was a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRpWtQOpFm4 situation though (The Incredibles "they're penetrating the bureaucracy").

I also as part of the account migration process filled some online forms which let me upload copies of statements from the other brokerage. So they do have that capacity.

I think they will still have the ability to send messages to customers who lose the ability to originate messages regardless, wasn't that implied by their wording?
Last edited by Da5id on Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

bertilak wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The Message Center is NOT going away!
That seems to be contradicted by ...
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone ... WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.
At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
Yes, indeed. Though, I use the electronic statements/transactions notifications, mostly. Apparently they remain.

My turn in the barrel might be coming, who knows? No sure of the criteria. I am Flagship, but not Flagship Select. Though, if my accounts and those accounts I manage for family members were aggregated, then I would be Flagship Select.

Broken Man 1999
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Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Whakamole »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:03 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The Message Center is NOT going away!
That seems to be contradicted by ...
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone ... WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.
At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
Yes, indeed. Though, I use the electronic statements/transactions notifications, mostly. Apparently they remain.

My turn in the barrel might be coming, who knows? No sure of the criteria. I am Flagship, but not Flagship Select. Though, if my accounts and those accounts I manage for family members were aggregated, then I would be Flagship Select.

Broken Man 1999
I don't think that is the way it works - if that was the case, I would have been Flagship last year due to managing a family member's account, but I was denied because my personal accounts hadn't held the threshold for three months yet.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Whakamole wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:07 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:03 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The Message Center is NOT going away!
That seems to be contradicted by ...
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone ... WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.
At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
Yes, indeed. Though, I use the electronic statements/transactions notifications, mostly. Apparently they remain.

My turn in the barrel might be coming, who knows? No sure of the criteria. I am Flagship, but not Flagship Select. Though, if my accounts and those accounts I manage for family members were aggregated, then I would be Flagship Select.

Broken Man 1999
I don't think that is the way it works - if that was the case, I would have been Flagship last year due to managing a family member's account, but I was denied because my personal accounts hadn't held the threshold for three months yet.
The first time I was Flagship, account aggregation was possible. I took care of my father's accounts, and our accounts. Made Flagship. Then, when my father passed, and I distributed all his assets, we were kicked out of Flagship. Made it back on our own, though, eventually.

Broken Man 1999
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

Ok, well, I don't know about the rest of you but I've been hemming and hawing about two things for a long time: ETFs, and Vanguard support going downhill. I've been test-driving Fidelity (~3years) and Schwab (~1year)

This is the straw, for me, I just called (and waited on hold for 8 minutes) and converted my last VG holdings to ETFs, and will transfer them out to another broker once everything settles. Maybe that is what they wanted all along. Customers cost money, after all, and they will still be making ER from the ETFs regardlesss where they're held.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by FactualFran »

gwe67 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 5:09 pm Doesn't matter whether you are flagship or not. It has to do with your pop-up blocker.
It does not have to do with pop-up blocking with me.

I am not flagship and have not gotten the message when logging. That is with the block pop-up windows setting of the browser off or on. I normally have it turned on, except when testing, such as in this case.

With pop-up windows blocked, the browser notifies me that a pop-up window wants to open and the browser has options to allows it to open. At the Vanguard web site I get pop-up windows when downloading fund documents, such as a prospectus or an annual report. Based on the behavior of the browser, the message is not in a pop-up window.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by LadyGeek »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:00 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:38 pm Are they disabling secure message clients to see if anyone notices? As I've stated earlier, I would never have been able to get my backdoor Roth transaction unwound without it. How do you send them a document securely?

How do they send one back to me? Upload it to Google Drive and share the link?
As I noted above, for some issues migrating an inherited IRA a Vanguard rep whose email-signature said her title was "Case Consultant Senior Associate" gave me her vanguard email address. So I could communicate directly that way, and presumably provide her files via link. Maybe this was a https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tRpWtQOpFm4 situation though (The Incredibles "they're penetrating the bureaucracy").

I also as part of the account migration process filled some online forms which let me upload copies of statements from the other brokerage. So they do have that capacity.

I think they will still have the ability to send messages to customers who lose the ability to originate messages regardless, wasn't that implied by their wording?
You assume that everyone has a secure site they can upload files to. For me, yes (Google Drive). For many people, no. Vanguard will need the business versions of Google Drive, Dropbox, or SharePoint to send documents securely back to me. Even if this was worked out, files are only part of the concern.

Here's a larger and more difficult problem: The main text of the email body will contain account numbers and other sensitive information. Nearly no one exccept those who work in IT security will have a clue on how to handle this.

The correct way is to put everything in a file and handle it securely. I guarantee that won't happen. Scan an email for your Social Security or driver's license number? Sure, it's in the email body as plain text.
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ResearchMed
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by ResearchMed »

nalor511 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:29 pm Ok, well, I don't know about the rest of you but I've been hemming and hawing about two things for a long time: ETFs, and Vanguard support going downhill. I've been test-driving Fidelity (~3years) and Schwab (~1year)

This is the straw, for me, I just called (and waited on hold for 8 minutes) and converted my last VG holdings to ETFs, and will transfer them out to another broker once everything settles. Maybe that is what they wanted all along. Customers cost money, after all, and they will still be making ER from the ETFs regardlesss where they're held.
Perhaps they only want much larger customers, those who aren't "among us", or mostly not.
Maybe they should have an entry criterion of owning a private jet. :wink:
Owning a $5k watch, even inflation adjusted, just won't do these days.

Seriously, as mentioned, customers DO cost money, and the little ones don't contribute enough, especially if they are going to pester the employees with - gasp - questions and messages!

With the phone queues, at least The Customer knows they didn't yet get through to anyone, so they aren't expecting an answer the same way they would after sending off a written query.

Our entire 403b plan (large, lowest cost category) was moved away from Vanguard last year. I now wonder what they (HR Benefits honchos) knew or what they suspected about "service". After all, the buck eventually stops at HR. We've been among those who needed to get Employer involved when Vanguard simply wouldn't fix a problem. And Employer had similar problems getting resolutions. THAT speaks volumes. (Not quite sure about what :confused , but at the least, some of the "capability" or "helpfulness" aspects of "service"!)

RM
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by stan1 »

So are we at Flagship (over $1M) keep 2-way secure message communication and those under $1M lose it?

Or is it like named Flagship reps where some over $1M still have a named rep and others do not based off a secret formula known only to Vanguard?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by anon_investor »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:13 pm
Whakamole wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:07 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:03 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:40 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The Message Center is NOT going away!
That seems to be contradicted by ...
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:32 pm The ability for SOME (at this point) to send/receive emails is going/gone ... WHY some still have the ability to send/receive emails is unknown.
At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
Yes, indeed. Though, I use the electronic statements/transactions notifications, mostly. Apparently they remain.

My turn in the barrel might be coming, who knows? No sure of the criteria. I am Flagship, but not Flagship Select. Though, if my accounts and those accounts I manage for family members were aggregated, then I would be Flagship Select.

Broken Man 1999
I don't think that is the way it works - if that was the case, I would have been Flagship last year due to managing a family member's account, but I was denied because my personal accounts hadn't held the threshold for three months yet.
The first time I was Flagship, account aggregation was possible. I took care of my father's accounts, and our accounts. Made Flagship. Then, when my father passed, and I distributed all his assets, we were kicked out of Flagship. Made it back on our own, though, eventually.

Broken Man 1999
I was previously told by Vanguard that you can qualify for Flagship status if the combined assets of a single household is $1M+, which is defined as being at the same address. I am not sure if that is still the case.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

So I got a response from the infamous secure message center on my question about this change.

They didn't say it was staying for Flagship but rather they are testing it out and it could affect all other clients in the future.
Boy was that not what I wanted to hear. At least they said they would forward my comments to management (how encouraging).
I sent them more comments to forward to management, including threats of moving my account if they remove this feature, along with all our very rationale reasons (lack of 24x7 phone support, lack of answering the phone during their stated bus hours). I asked them if they really want to drive away Flagship customers because that's exactly what I'll do if there is no way to contact them easily. Chat 24x7 would be better but what they have now is sufficient if they don't drop it.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 pm So are we at Flagship (over $1M) keep 2-way secure message communication and those under $1M lose it?

Or is it like named Flagship reps where some over $1M still have a named rep and others do not based off a secret formula known only to Vanguard?
They haven't articulated the rules afaik. Individuals can ask and Vanguard answers.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by GP813 »

Vanguard customer service is going down the drain. This was often the only way for me to get help as I could clearly communicate in writing my issue and have the right person write me back an appropriate response without being switched from department to department and being put on hold for many minutes or even hours.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:58 pm
stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 pm So are we at Flagship (over $1M) keep 2-way secure message communication and those under $1M lose it?

Or is it like named Flagship reps where some over $1M still have a named rep and others do not based off a secret formula known only to Vanguard?
They haven't articulated the rules afaik. Individuals can ask and Vanguard answers.
Different people got different answers to same question about this change.
My observation from a few family members is only non-Flagship persons got the message about the change.
I was able to verify that a popup block on my browser was NOT a factor since I let someone else login on my browser and they got the popup.
It appears they are trying this on many clients, probably not including Flagship clients, to see how angry people get.
They seem to reserve the right to roll this out further to more clients who didn't yet get the message.
prd1982
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by prd1982 »

IMHO we have threads like this because people aren’t busy discussing stock tips :happy
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by AZAttorney11 »

What a disaster. I'm so glad we moved from Vanguard as our broker when we did. Sadly, I'm sure Vanguard feels the same.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:03 pm They seem to reserve the right to roll this out further to more clients who didn't yet get the message.
Well, any company generally reserves the right to change things in the future, so that goes without saying. I'm not *positive* I'd leave if they did this change to me, but I'd certainly consider it and look into it. But thankfully they aren't (at least for now).
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by jeffyscott »

beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:03 pm
Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:58 pm
stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 pm So are we at Flagship (over $1M) keep 2-way secure message communication and those under $1M lose it?

Or is it like named Flagship reps where some over $1M still have a named rep and others do not based off a secret formula known only to Vanguard?
They haven't articulated the rules afaik. Individuals can ask and Vanguard answers.
Different people got different answers to same question about this change.
My observation from a few family members is only non-Flagship persons got the message about the change.
I was able to verify that a popup block on my browser was NOT a factor since I let someone else login on my browser and they got the popup.
It appears they are trying this on many clients, probably not including Flagship clients, to see how angry people get.
They seem to reserve the right to roll this out further to more clients who didn't yet get the message.
I believe at least one flagship person had gotten the pop-up, but was then told that they would not be affected. So it may even be that anyone, even non-flagship, might get removed (for now) from the test group, if they complain?

I am in the process of testing that theory with a message now.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

prd1982 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm IMHO we have threads like this because people aren’t busy discussing stock tips :happy
Nobody that trades individual stocks as a major part of their portfolio could possibly want to use Vanguard as their broker. And wouldn’t they be posting on Reddit or seekingalpha instead ? This is the site those who want boring :-). Guess this is as much excitement as we can handle !
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

jeffyscott wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:19 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:03 pm
Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:58 pm
stan1 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:52 pm So are we at Flagship (over $1M) keep 2-way secure message communication and those under $1M lose it?

Or is it like named Flagship reps where some over $1M still have a named rep and others do not based off a secret formula known only to Vanguard?
They haven't articulated the rules afaik. Individuals can ask and Vanguard answers.
Different people got different answers to same question about this change.
My observation from a few family members is only non-Flagship persons got the message about the change.
I was able to verify that a popup block on my browser was NOT a factor since I let someone else login on my browser and they got the popup.
It appears they are trying this on many clients, probably not including Flagship clients, to see how angry people get.
They seem to reserve the right to roll this out further to more clients who didn't yet get the message.
I believe at least one flagship person had gotten the pop-up, but was then told that they would not be affected. So it may even be that anyone, even non-flagship, might get removed (for now) from the test group, if they complain?

I am in the process of testing that theory with a message now.
Could be their complaint helped, or that the popups were not correctly implemented, like many changes to the site.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by anon_investor »

AZAttorney11 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm What a disaster. I'm so glad we moved from Vanguard as our broker when we did. Sadly, I'm sure Vanguard feels the same.
Where did you move your money to? As it appears Flagship status gives you no benefit, I am tempted to hunt for a brokerage bonus to move some Vanguard money out to test them out. I am looking at moving $100k to Merrill Edge/Bank of America to get the multiplier on their credit card rewards. However, I still have pleanty of funds to try to hunt for other bonuses.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

Da5id wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:15 pm
beyou wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:03 pm They seem to reserve the right to roll this out further to more clients who didn't yet get the message.
Well, any company generally reserves the right to change things in the future, so that goes without saying. I'm not *positive* I'd leave if they did this change to me, but I'd certainly consider it and look into it. But thankfully they aren't (at least for now).
Yes but some asked if this is policy, so far no policy advertised, just a secretive experiment that may lead to a published policy. Write, call and complain folks if this matters to you, noting my complaint led to only “not you, not yet”. I guess we can take comfort in knowing the tech is being preserved and if so, can be granted back if removed from only some.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by barefootjan »

Oh geez. So it’s a money thing? Why couldn’t they just say that, for crying out loud?

Unreal.

Well, something else occurred to me when I read that they’re “testing” this out or whatever: My husband and I own admiral shares of Wellesley, Balanced fund, and Short term investment grade bond. I can’t help wondering how many of the people who are losing the secure message service are not just Voyager customers, but Voyager customers who are heavily invested in funds that can’t be purchased elsewhere?

I mean, why all behind the scenes the cloak and dagger stuff? :annoyed

I think that’s what I hate the most, that they didn’t even have the decency to explain their reasoning for the change and give us more advance notice so we could get started exploring our options (or maybe that was the point? trap us for a while and hope we “get over it”?)

Google announces changes to their fee structure and features months in advance. All of our utility and credit card companies manage to give advance notice. Even my budget cell phone company, Page Plus, gave more than ample notice of impending changes - and the reason for the changes as well.

Argh. I want to make a thoughtful decision about what’s in our best long term interests. but as someone else mentioned, we entrusted Vanguard with our life’s savings. This isn’t some kind of game to us. I’m not sure how I can overlook the underhanded way they’re doing this. And I’m not sure I should.

The whole thing just sucks.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Nate79 »

As someone who moved to Schwab from Vanguard a few years ago I can tell you the grass IS greener on the other side. But please continue to enjoy being experimented on by your broker who, as a mutual structure only has your best interests at heart.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:33 pm
AZAttorney11 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 3:04 pm What a disaster. I'm so glad we moved from Vanguard as our broker when we did. Sadly, I'm sure Vanguard feels the same.
Where did you move your money to? As it appears Flagship status gives you no benefit, I am tempted to hunt for a brokerage bonus to move some Vanguard money out to test them out. I am looking at moving $100k to Merrill Edge/Bank of America to get the multiplier on their credit card rewards. However, I still have pleanty of funds to try to hunt for other bonuses.
Move some ? Problem is then you are even smaller a client. Maybe next they will remove the phone and statements, “just trust us, everything is fine, tiny client we don’t want”. I am considering same but if they treat us badly now, what more after a partial move out ?

I also tend to think the grass always looks greener. Whenever I have looked I have not found any fully satisfying alternative. So for now complain away to try and fix things.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

anon_investor wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:53 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:13 pm
Whakamole wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:07 pm
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 2:03 pm
bertilak wrote: Mon Aug 02, 2021 1:40 pm
That seems to be contradicted by ...

At least a primary function of the "message" center (sending messages) seems to be gone or going for some.
Yes, indeed. Though, I use the electronic statements/transactions notifications, mostly. Apparently they remain.

My turn in the barrel might be coming, who knows? No sure of the criteria. I am Flagship, but not Flagship Select. Though, if my accounts and those accounts I manage for family members were aggregated, then I would be Flagship Select.

Broken Man 1999
I don't think that is the way it works - if that was the case, I would have been Flagship last year due to managing a family member's account, but I was denied because my personal accounts hadn't held the threshold for three months yet.
The first time I was Flagship, account aggregation was possible. I took care of my father's accounts, and our accounts. Made Flagship. Then, when my father passed, and I distributed all his assets, we were kicked out of Flagship. Made it back on our own, though, eventually.

Broken Man 1999
I was previously told by Vanguard that you can qualify for Flagship status if the combined assets of a single household is $1M+, which is defined as being at the same address. I am not sure if that is still the case.
The family accounts I manage do not have my address, so they wouldn't be aggregating by address, if they aggregate at all.

When I managed my father's accounts, he wasn't mailed anything as he was slipping into dementia, I received any mailed stuff. So, maybe it was the address that allowed the aggregation back then.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
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