[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
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anon_investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by anon_investor »

JoMoney wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:02 am
nalor511 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:27 pm [Disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] - it's a completely reasonably thing for a customer to expect to be able to contact customer service in writing, so there's a record.
My first Vanguard account was opened through the mail. Maybe they'll go back to doing that. Perhaps dump the brokerage accounts and just sell mutual funds directly to buy-and-hold investors, and get rid of the web page that people complain about being too low-tech altogether. 'Back in the day', there was a phone number I could call to get automated account balance from a menu tree. That worked well enough.
Fidelity is looking pretty good. I will have to move my HSA to them at some point, what is stopping me from moving everything else at that point...
Bama12
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by Bama12 »

Vanguard is not for day trading. They are for buying and holding.
AQ
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by AQ »

I haven't run into any issues yet but I haven't done anything with my account. But these regular complaints about Vanguard customer services got me concerned. So much so I'm still holding out to convert to the new brokerage platform, since I don't want to make endless calls should something come up..

For you guys talking about moving to another brokerage like Fidelity, can we do it in-kind transfer? Otherwise, capital gain tax is prohibitively expensive for me
Da5id
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by Da5id »

Bama12 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:09 am Vanguard is not for day trading. They are for buying and holding.
They only reply to secure messages in a day or two. So day trading isn't the point. I prefer to ask questions in writing and get written answers for most things.
Last edited by Da5id on Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:23 am, edited 1 time in total.
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anon_investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by anon_investor »

AQ wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:11 am I haven't run into any issues yet but I haven't done anything with my account. But these regular complaints about Vanguard customer services got me concerned. So much so I'm still holding out to convert to the new brokerage platform, since I don't want to make endless calls should something come up..

For you guys talking about moving to another brokerage like Fidelity, can we do it in-kind transfer? Otherwise, capital gain tax is prohibitively expensive for me
I think some funds they can but not all. I would do a tax free conversion of my Vanguard index mutual funds to ETF before I would change brokerages. But I likely won't do anything for a while, since I have no plan to change employers.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by fwellimort »

AQ wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:11 am For you guys talking about moving to another brokerage like Fidelity, can we do it in-kind transfer? Otherwise, capital gain tax is prohibitively expensive for me
Yap. Fidelity accepts every transfer/withdrawal/deposit with 0 fees. Every transaction is 0 fees there. Really convenient for moving money/assets around.

I believe (I could be wrong) Fidelity charges 0 fees for moving SOME (not all) Vanguard mutual funds to Fidelity and having the reinvest dividends on. So be careful there. The main mutual funds, yes. But the very particular ones (that are not popular), I am not sure.

HOWEVER, Fidelity does charge money IF you BUY Vanguard mutual funds directly at Fidelity brokerage.
This should NOT be an issue as you can buy Vanguard ETFs with partial shares at Fidelity OR buy Fidelity mutual fund equivalents : https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds
Just note Fidelity mutual funds are a hair more tax inefficient so it's well advised here to buy ETF equivalents instead in partial shares and put that 1~4 cents to the mutual fund.

Most Bogleheaders though just make things simple by calling Vanguard to convert their mutual funds to ETF equivalents (no tax triggering). Then move that to Fidelity. This is because ETFs are far more portable and allows easy moving in the future if Bogleheaders want to move to a different brokerage (or whatever).
So basically:
Call Vanguard to convert mutual funds to ETF equivalents without tax triggering -> Open Fidelity account and request transfer of assets from your Vanguard account -> Done. And turn on DRIP (dividend reinvestment program) + buy Vanguard ETFs in partial shares for the future.
VTSAX -> VTI
VTIAX -> VXUS
VBTLX -> BND
Last edited by fwellimort on Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
phisher4
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by phisher4 »

I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
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anon_investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by anon_investor »

fwellimort wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:31 am
AQ wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:11 am For you guys talking about moving to another brokerage like Fidelity, can we do it in-kind transfer? Otherwise, capital gain tax is prohibitively expensive for me
Yap. Fidelity accepts every transfer/withdrawal/deposit with 0 fees. Every transaction is 0 fees there. Really convenient for moving money/assets around.

I believe (I could be wrong) Fidelity charges 0 fees for moving SOME (not all) Vanguard mutual funds to Fidelity and having the reinvest dividends on. So be careful there. The main mutual funds, yes. But the very particular ones (that are not popular), I am not sure.

HOWEVER, Fidelity does charge money IF you BUY Vanguard mutual funds directly at Fidelity brokerage.
This should NOT be an issue as you can buy Vanguard ETFs with partial shares at Fidelity OR buy Fidelity mutual fund equivalents : https://www.fidelity.com/mutual-funds/i ... ndex-funds
Just note Fidelity mutual funds are a hair more tax inefficient so it's well advised here to buy ETF equivalents instead in partial shares and put that 1~4 cents to the mutual fund.

Most Bogleheaders though just make things simple by calling Vanguard to convert their mutual funds to ETF equivalents (no tax triggering). Then move that to Fidelity. This is because ETFs are far more portable and allows easy moving in the future if Bogleheaders want to move to a different brokerage (or whatever).
So basically:
Call Vanguard to convert mutual funds to ETF equivalents without tax triggering -> Open Fidelity account and request transfer of assets from your Vanguard account -> Done. And turn on DRIP (dividend reinvestment program) + buy Vanguard ETFs in partial shares for the future.
VTSAX -> VTI
VTIAX -> VXUS
VBTLX -> BND
I don't think you can convert VBTLX to BND, but you can convert the equity index funds.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by Dale_G »

phisher4 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:32 am I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
No email or message to me - and no popup when I logged on a hour ago. I'll believe it when I see it. On the rare occasions when I used it, secure messaging worked fine for me.

Don't you guys persons have a red telephone on your desk with a direct line to Vanguard with someone on the other end waiting for your call? You don't even have to dial, they are just there when you lift the receiver or push the big red button.

Dale
Last edited by Dale_G on Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by TropikThunder »

Dale_G wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:02 am
phisher4 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:32 am I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
No email or message to me - and no popup when I logged on a hour ago. I'll believe it when I see it. On the rare occasions when I used it, secure messaging worked fine for me.

Don't you guys persons have a red telephone on your desk with a direct line to Vanguard with someone on the other end waiting for your call?

Dale
nisiprius wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:14 pm Voyager Select here. No such notice on login, no, it's a popup and it was being blocked by my standard Safari browser setting. Shame on them for delivering something important in the form of a popup window, when they must know many of their customers block popup windows...

I certainly expect Vanguard to provide an email-like communications channel... every web-based merchant I know, and, for the last ten years or so, all my doctors. And I would say Vanguard is making random changes to basic account services and doing a really lousy job of communicating about them with customers.

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Changes coming to your Message Center

In August, you will no longer be able to contact us through the Message Center. However, electronic statements, confirmations, and important messages from Vanguard will still be available there.

Vanguard Support is here to help! Find answers to your questions through the site's user-friendly search feature and knowledge library, featuring tutorials and interactive tools. From top-trending questions to phone numbers, Vanguard Support has you covered.

Vanguard is committed to improving your experience on our website and mobile app. If you're interested in helping us pilot new digital experiences, please register using the link below.

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beyou
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by beyou »

phisher4 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:32 am I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
Just logged in to check now, so no such warning/popup.
Go to messages and can still see recent messages from July.

fund-only account, flagship.
maybe this is gradual or does not apply to all.
That would be lousy, but there are other firms who do not support email communications. Not the most efficient with back and forth misunderstandings, but for some issues better than calling/waiting on hold. My Voya 401k customer service online gives phone number and snail mail address, no email/secure messaging/chat. Chat icon to let you think they have it, but then just gives phone/mail address options. Frustrating.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by exodusNH »

Dale_G wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:02 am
phisher4 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:32 am I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
No email or message to me - and no popup when I logged on a hour ago. I'll believe it when I see it. On the rare occasions when I used it, secure messaging worked fine for me.

Don't you guys persons have a red telephone on your desk with a direct line to Vanguard with someone on the other end waiting for your call? You don't even have to dial, they are just there when you lift the receiver or push the big red button.

Dale
I got it when I logged in shortly after seeing this thread, about 7 hours ago.
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typical.investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by typical.investor »

For a record then, perhaps use:

By U.S. mail:

Vanguard
P.O. Box 982901
El Paso, TX 79998-2901

By registered, certified, or overnight mail:

Vanguard
5951 Luckett Court, Suite A1
El Paso, TX 79932-1882
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

water2357 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:40 pm I also received the message about no secure email in August. I was at the point of recommending Vanguard to a high value customer but my experience has not been good this year and doing away with secure messaging may be the last straw. I don't want this person to have the same problems I've had with their service. Purchased securities and Vanguard did not follow up to make sure that dividends and interest were paid. I had to contact them numerous times, was made to wait a month before they did anything and then they finally admitted there was a problem that impacted multiple investors. If I had not called, I doubt that anyone would have been paid.

I never phone them or email them for anything I can do on line, it is a waste of time. But Vanguard needs a 24/7 contact for problems that they create. No one should have to wait 2 days from Friday to Monday to contact them about an error in their account, nor should they have to wait from 5PM to the next morning. Those who work can't hang on the phone all day at work waiting for a customer service representative, it's just not feasible. They act like everyone has 8 hours M-F to spend trying to get in touch with them. At least secure messaging provided another option for contact.

In any case, I'm very much rethinking sending a Flagship customer their way. You can't count on any level of service no matter how much money you have with them. All they have done over the last 10 years is take service away. And not notifying their customers until July 30th that secure messaging would be cut off in August, after it is too late to contact them about it is ridiculous. And it appears that those who don't regularly log in have received no notice. I don't like finding out by pure coincidence when someone is cutting out a service. Just really poor, poor policy on Vanguard's part. Vanguard needs to retract this or open up phone service 24/7.
Your friend will be much, much more satisfied (and happier with you) if you recommend Schwab. If they would be Flagship at Vanguard, they'll get a fee waiver on Vanguard mutual funds just for the asking, a four figure bonus for moving their money there just for the asking, far superior customer service and a myriad of ways to interact with Schwab as I noted earlier.
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nisiprius
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

(Wild speculation about possible explanation deleted by poster)
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:29 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by prd1982 »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:07 am One has to wonder if Vanguard has had an unacknowledged security breach of this system.
Why? Shouldn’t you have some indication before making this innuendo?
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nisiprius
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

prd1982 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:24 am
nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:07 am One has to wonder...
Why? Shouldn’t you have some indication before making this innuendo?
You're right. With such short notice and no explanation at all, Vanguard should expect people to wonder about things, but I shouldn't have made explicit wild guesses.
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ResearchMed
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by ResearchMed »

phisher4 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:32 am I never received this message or popup. Did everyone else?

Is it perhaps only applicable to those with a certain amount of assets?
Nope. We had a large 403b, but Employer moved then entire plan to TIAA last year.
(Hmmmm... wonder why...?)

Now we each have quite tiny IRAs left behind.

Do you have pop-ups blocked?
But that wouldn't be a full explanation.
As mentioned above, when DH logged in to his account, NO notice. When I logged in to my account a minute later, on the same laptop... there was the notice.
:confused

I'm wondering if the "no written record" (of whacko non-responsive responses!) is indeed the, or at least "a", reason.

RM
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galawdawg
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by galawdawg »

Whakamole wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:13 pm --embedded quote removed for space--
Are there limits on what you can do after-hours on the 24/7 lines? Typically I've found some things need to be done during normal business hours only.
One very significant drawback to the removal of secure messaging by Vanguard is that it leaves Vanguard brokerage customers with absolutely no way to reach out to Vanguard other than by phone during their normal but limited telephone support hours.

While secure messaging never resulted in a quick reply, for those Vanguard brokerage customers whose schedule is not conducive to calling them during their limited support hours, they at least had the ability to type and send a secure message off-hours and for some issues, the response they received was sufficient for their needs.

Now it appears that Vanguard brokerage customers who need assistance will have no choice but to call during the limited hours that Vanguard has telephone support.

Nisiprius has a point. Perhaps there is some alternative explanation for this development. Otherwise, this sure seems like the kind of ill-conceived boneheaded move (à la "new" Coke) that should result in a change of management...starting at the very top. In my opinion, Vanguard needs to get off the fence. Either provide the kind of support for their brokerage customers that all of their competitors do or cut the retail investors loose and just remain an asset management company administering Vanguard funds and serving institutional clients who have their own client-facing IT and support infrastructure.

As one who held Jack Bogle in high-regard and who invested exclusively at Vanguard for decades, it saddens me to see what has happened to Vanguard, particularly under Buckley's watch. However, I'm now a very satisfied Schwab customer (but still a Vanguard client-owner) so my only "dog in the fight" pertains to the costs of the Vanguard funds I hold. If this move results in lower expense ratios on those funds, I can't complain. :happy
Last edited by galawdawg on Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by prd1982 »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:27 am
prd1982 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:24 am
nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:07 am One has to wonder if Vanguard has had an unacknowledged security breach of this system.
Why? Shouldn’t you have some indication before making this innuendo?
Well, in the absence of any explanation at all, and such short notice, it is reasonable to expect people to wonder. What would be your list of possible hypotheses for such lack of notice and lack of explanation?
Why would telling you that messaging was going away in 2 months make a difference?

So why get rid of it? Probably That it wasn’t a good use of their resources.

* that people were asking questions that they could have answered themselves online.

* that people were misinterpreting the responses, and either asking another question or making a wrong decision. Having to send multiple messages is much more expensive than a single conversation since the 2nd rep has to review all the info again.

We should not assume that the questions asked by people on this forum are representative of the questions received by Vanguard. I don’t see a need for 7 by 24 general support. I do see where fraud support would benefit from round the clock coverage.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by UpperNwGuy »

typical.investor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:33 am For a record then, perhaps use:

By U.S. mail:

Vanguard
P.O. Box 982901
El Paso, TX 79998-2901

By registered, certified, or overnight mail:

Vanguard
5951 Luckett Court, Suite A1
El Paso, TX 79932-1882
I thought Vanguard was in Malvern, PA. When did they move?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Tubes »

I have pop ups blocked on Firefox. No message. As a back up, I have Edge and Chrome set as defaults. Logged in there. No message!

Flagship if that matters.

I don't think it is anything "special" about me. It think the fact some of us get messages and others don't is more indicative of the issues they have on their web interface. I must have something, somewhere that I forgot messing with the message.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by prd1982 »

Tubes wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:55 am I have pop ups blocked on Firefox. No message. As a back up, I have Edge and Chrome set as defaults. Logged in there. No message!

Flagship if that matters.

I don't think it is anything "special" about me. It think the fact some of us get messages and others don't is more indicative of the issues they have on their web interface. I must have something, somewhere that I forgot messing with the message.
Or maybe they flagged that they showed you the pop up , even though you blocked showing it.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by bertilak »

The message center is still working so I sent the following:
On boglehead.org I see many posts from people who got a pop-up message from Vanguard saying that this message center is going away.

I have not personally received such a message but my browser (Microsoft Edge) blocks pop-up messages so I would not have seen it.

The text of the message as quoted on bogleheads.org listed other ways of getting answers to questions. NOT ALL MESSAGES ARE QUESTIONS, especially ones that can be answered by reading a FAQ.

So, is it true? Is there more to it?
I await their reply!
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Sheepdog
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Sheepdog »

No popup message for me either.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Orangutan »

bertilak wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:12 am The message center is still working so I sent the following:
On boglehead.org I see many posts from people who got a pop-up message from Vanguard saying that this message center is going away.

I have not personally received such a message but my browser (Microsoft Edge) blocks pop-up messages so I would not have seen it.

The text of the message as quoted on bogleheads.org listed other ways of getting answers to questions. NOT ALL MESSAGES ARE QUESTIONS, especially ones that can be answered by reading a FAQ.

So, is it true? Is there more to it?
I await their reply!
This is hilarious. I wonder if anyone from VG monitors this forum.
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nisiprius
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by nisiprius »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:47 am...I thought Vanguard was in Malvern, PA. When did they move?...
They have their mailing operations elsewhere. One of the little weird "what does this mean" Vanguardology questions a few years ago was why they they moved their (outsourced) outgoing mail operations from R. R. Donnelly, in Monroe, Wisconsin (population 11,000 and home of Swiss Colony cheese) to a firm in El Paso, Texas. And in 2020, Sheepdog reported getting a notice that Vanguard would be switching their incoming mail address to El Paso, as well, to a firm named "Swiss Post Solutions." Presumably no relation to the cheese company.

Vanguard's headquarters, as far as I know, are in Malvern, PA, but for many years the actual mailing address was in Valley Forge, PA.

The outgoing mailings (like paper statements) came from R. R. Donnelly in Wisconsin for a very long time. That's all a rather mysterious business I'd be curious to know more about. I think R. R. Donnelly is or used to be the world's biggest something or other--consumer of paper maybe. In Ye Olde Days they were the ones that printed most of the big thick phone books. The kind that people would tear in half as a combined proof-of-physical-strength-and-magic-trick.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:01 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Nate79
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Nate79 »

Tubes wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:55 am I have pop ups blocked on Firefox. No message. As a back up, I have Edge and Chrome set as defaults. Logged in there. No message!

Flagship if that matters.

I don't think it is anything "special" about me. It think the fact some of us get messages and others don't is more indicative of the issues they have on their web interface. I must have something, somewhere that I forgot messing with the message.
Maybe send them a secure message and ask. :D
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nisiprius
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

stan1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 8:36 pm Remember, they are firing their customers slowly but surely. They want to be a low cost asset manager or a low cost asset administrator, not a complementary asset administrator. CMA, Flagship reps for all but a few, coffee cups gone.

Schwab in the past has paid for service by defaulting or forcing customers into low rate cash accounts (less so in last few years due to rates).
You might well be right. Of course I wonder whether "customers-are-an-expensive-nuisance-disease" might begin to afflict Fidelity and Schwab as well.
Fidelity and Schwab make money off their fund marketplaces. Vanguard doesn't do either.
When buying non-Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard, Vanguard makes the usual distinction between "transaction fee" and "no transaction fee" funds, and a fee schedule for online orders of transaction-fee funds is:
Mutual funds from other companies... online transactions:
ASSETS INVESTED IN VANGUARD ETFs & MUTUAL FUND:
Less than $1 million: $20 per trade
$1 million to $5 million: $0 for first 25 trades; $8 per trade thereafter
$5 million or more: $0 for first 100 trades; $8 per trade thereafter
That's a lot less than it used to be.

They used to use the name "FundAccess" for their non-Vanguard mutual fund buying channel. They don't any more. I'm not sure exactly what constitutes a "fund supermarket." Did they just quit using the name or is what they are doing now structurally different?

But they are charging some fees, and I assume that they have one of those behind-the-scenes business agreements in which the "no transaction fee" funds pay them. So they are not making strictly zero. So I think you are saying that Vanguard isn't making much money out of sales of non-Vanguard mutual funds, maybe a lot less than their competitors, and maybe all of them are making a lot less than they used to?
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nisiprius
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

The "Swiss" in "Swiss Post Solutions", and the hint of a Swiss flag in its logo,

Image

give the impression, which is true, that Swiss Post Solutions is headquartered in Switzerland.

They claim to offer Smart Shoring:
Instead of taking a one-size-fits-all approach, Smart Shoring combines different shoring models within one business process. Workflows are analysed and then broken down into their component parts. Each element is then either eliminated, automated or processed manually in the optimal location. This could be in an onshore, nearshore, or offshore centre, depending on the complexity involved.
There are about 100 employees in its El Paso, TX offices, at 5951 Luckett Court, El Paso, TX 79932, the same address used by Vanguard.

It isn't a big building.

Image
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:38 am, edited 3 times in total.
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59Gibson
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by 59Gibson »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:47 am
typical.investor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:33 am For a record then, perhaps use:

By U.S. mail:

Vanguard
P.O. Box 982901
El Paso, TX 79998-2901

By registered, certified, or overnight mail:

Vanguard
5951 Luckett Court, Suite A1
El Paso, TX 79932-1882
I thought Vanguard was in Malvern, PA. When did they move?
Yes that's strange. I guess they're running for the border too. They'll be in Mexico before long.
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ClevrChico
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by ClevrChico »

I didn't have to use it much, but I found the Message Center very useful and preferable to a phone call. Some questions are just easier asked in writing.

Maybe, just maybe, they're replacing it with an online ticketing system, which would be an improvement? We'll see.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by Da5id »

ClevrChico wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:34 am I didn't have to use it much, but I found the Message Center very useful and preferable to a phone call. Some questions are just easier asked in writing.

Maybe, just maybe, they're replacing it with an online ticketing system, which would be an improvement? We'll see.
Yeah. Unless my account were to be hacked or something, I'm unlikely to be in a hurry. I prefer asynchronous messaging over dealing with phone IVR systems. I usually get a person quickly calling the Flagship number, but messaging is my preference. I've also dealt with Vanguard folks via email, but they need to initiate that.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Charles Schwab also has an El Paso mailing address. Perhaps they've contracted mailing services to the same vendor as Vanguard?
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typical.investor
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by typical.investor »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:47 am
typical.investor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:33 am For a record then, perhaps use:

By U.S. mail:

Vanguard
P.O. Box 982901
El Paso, TX 79998-2901

By registered, certified, or overnight mail:

Vanguard
5951 Luckett Court, Suite A1
El Paso, TX 79932-1882
I thought Vanguard was in Malvern, PA. When did they move?
I dk but addresses are from https://personal.vanguard.com/us/servic ... cbdPop%3D1
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by mggray17 »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:13 am The "Swiss" in "Swiss Post Solutions", and the hint of a Swiss flag in its logo,

Image

give the impression, which is true, that Swiss Post Solutions is headquartered in Switzerland.

They claim to offer Smart Shoring:
Instead of taking a one-size-fits-all approach, Smart Shoring combines different shoring models within one business process. Workflows are analysed and then broken down into their component parts. Each element is then either eliminated, automated or processed manually in the optimal location. This could be in an onshore, nearshore, or offshore centre, depending on the complexity involved.
There are about 100 employees in its El Paso, TX offices, at 5951 Luckett Court, El Paso, TX 79932, the same address used by Vanguard.

It isn't a big building.

Image
Zoom in. That is Building C. Vanguard is Suite 1A. Larger building to the right of your screen shot.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by OpenMinded1 »

nalor511 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:27 pm [Disrespectful comment removed by moderator oldcomputerguy] - it's a completely reasonably thing for a customer to expect to be able to contact customer service in writing, so there's a record.
Maybe that's why they don't want to do it anymore - because of the record.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by LadyGeek »

I just logged in. Other than an annoying immediate phone call for 2-factor authentication (they didn't ask first so I can be ready :annoyed ), I don't see any pop-ups or messages. I see the ad for their Advisor Services very clearly.

Thanks to a small inheritance (< 2% of investments), I now have a taxable account with Fidelity - a fund transferred in-kind. It's very, very tempting to simply ask Fidelity to transfer everything from Vanguard.

I'm having too much fun deep-diving into Fidelity's fund comparison tools.

Oh, and the cost basis was nicely done. They even tracked the transaction history and cost basis from the start date when the decedent first purchased the fund. The cost basis reset when the fund was distributed to me.

I have POA for my Mom's Vanguard account (agent authorization). I don't want to touch that - both from a paperwork and tax perspective. That will remain.

If they get rid of the message center, I may pull the trigger.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:59 am If they get rid of the message center, I may pull the trigger.
Wonder if Vanguard has any idea how this is being perceived? If they've lost LadyGeek...

I still have $0.40 in a traditional IRA rollover at Fidelity from when I moved my 401k to Vanguard after retiring. Just one of those irritating things that can happen during a transfer. So my account there is alive. Easy to reconsolidate my Vanguard accounts to Fidelity, or Schwab for that matter. Still wondering if they will really do this for everyone or if they will perhaps relent for Flagship customers?

I've had an account with Vanguard since the late 1980s, seems odd to think of changing out now but I am. The barriers to migrating are really pretty low.
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runninginvestor
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by runninginvestor »

It's odd because I still haven't seen chatter elsewhere about this. You'd think with $7 trillion in assets and the scrutiny RH is getting with their lackluster CS options, firms would be wary of changes like this.
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by tibbitts »

Capster1 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:38 pm Yeah, I saw that as well. I agree, who doesn't have contact via messaging online? Ridiculous.
Luckily, in 13 years I've never had to contact them. However, just look at the website/interface in comparison to something like Fidelity? They are so behind.
Speaking of which, if I have an issue with Fidelity, I can get an online chat going in two seconds and have my problem solved in a jiffy.
Until recently I was able to "get an online chat going in two seconds" with Fidelity. Lately I spend quite a while navigating to where I can start a chat, to the extent that sometimes I give up and call. So maybe I'm getting worse at navigating websites (possibly/probably) and/or something has changed to where Fidelity is discouraging live chat vs. having customers eventually convince the "chatbot" to lead me to a real person, or non-interactive secure messaging. Maybe it's telling that my most recent question was actually about navigating a newly redesigned (not based on my memory - the page was labeled as such) part of the Fidelity website. If it matters I've always been in the very-low-balance customer category at Fidelity, and don't use their website very often.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by abuss368 »

I does not really matter for me personally as a stay the course investor. I rarely used it.

I can understand how it may impact or inconvenience some who used it and found it to be resourceful.

It feels as if Vanguard is eliminating certain services (Vanguard Advantage) and other bells and whistles (secure messages) to lower costs and better define the scope of services.

They have probably planned for some shakeout to Fidelity and Schwab and may want that for needier clients. For others Vanguard PAS is an option.

For the remainder you can turn your money over to Dave to manage with his hedge fund.😂🤣

Tony
Last edited by abuss368 on Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Dave55 »

abuss368 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 9:39 am I does not really matter for me personally as a stay the course investor. I rarely used it.

I can understand how it may impact or inconvenience some used found it to be resourceful.

It feels as if Vanguard is eliminating certain services (Vanguard Advantage) and other bells and whistles (secure messages) to lower costs and better define the scope of services.

They have probably planned for some shakeout to Fidelity and Schwab and may want that for needier clients. For others Vanguard PAS is an option.

For the remainder you can turn your money over to Dave to manage with his hedge fund.😂🤣

Tony
The Hedge fund is closed to new investors and most here would not like the lock up period.

Dave
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by peppers »

Perhaps a very clever ploy by Vanguard

Driving tens of thousands of Vanguard refugees into the offices of Fidelity and Schwab and overwhelm their customer service systems, all clamoring for their transfer bonus.

Meanwhile, in the Red Room* at Vanguard, a lone figure sits with a smug grin.

* Blatant and shameless reference from the movie Black Widow.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by nisiprius »

mggray17 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:51 am
nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:13 am It isn't a big building.
Zoom in. That is Building C. Vanguard is Suite 1A. Larger building to the right of your screen shot.
Ah. Yes. Big loading doors and fat cables.

Image

Just notice something weird. My last piece of postal mail from Vanguard, a brokerage transaction confirmation dated 7/16/2021, is in an envelope with no postmark and no return address... just a little box saying "FIRST-CLASS MAIL U.S. POSTAGE PAID VANGUARD," no account numbers or barcodes or "indicia" or anything. It came from nowhere. Nowhere but "VANGUARD." However, the statement inside it says "PO Box 3009, Monroe, Wisconsin." So maybe Vanguard's incoming mail is going to Texas but their outgoing mail is still coming from Wisconsin?
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:08 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by grabiner »

I didn't see the note about the message center going away, but I have also used it several times, and found it very useful for things which needed to be done but not in real time. Here are some examples of how I used it:

Reporting which non-covered shares were sold when using specific identification to sell shares of a mutual fund. (I still have non-covered shares, so I may have to do this in the future.)

Fixing problems with transactions. (Several times, Vanguard used the wrong specific identification when I donated ETF shares to a charity, and I corrected it online. Another time, I donated 112 shares to charity and Vanguard withdrew only 12; a secure Email caused the other 100 to be donated the next day.)

Reporting a problem with the web site.

Reporting an error in one of Vanguard's published papers.

Sending feedback on the new format for fund listings; there was no formal place to send it.
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Re: VG removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by grabiner »

Da5id wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:11 am
Bama12 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:09 am Vanguard is not for day trading. They are for buying and holding.
They only reply to secure messages in a day or two. So day trading isn't the point. I prefer to ask questions in writing and get written answers for most things.
And then I have an easy-to-retrieve copy. When I have used the Message Center to specify which non-covered shares of a mutual fund I sold, I can print out the reply, as a confirmation from Vanguard that the specified shares were the ones that were sold. Without the Message Center, if I want a written record, I will have to write a letter for the sales. (I still have multiple non-covered lots of Emerging Markets Index and Total Stock Market Index.)
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Re: Why is Vanguard no longer allowing customers to contact them by secure email starting August 1?

Post by jeffyscott »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 6:53 am
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:47 am...I thought Vanguard was in Malvern, PA. When did they move?...
They have their mailing operations elsewhere. One of the little weird "what does this mean" Vanguardology questions a few years ago was why they they moved their (outsourced) outgoing mail operations from R. R. Donnelly, in Monroe, Wisconsin (population 11,000 and home of Swiss Colony cheese) to a firm in El Paso, Texas.
The statements still have a return address in Monroe: PO Box 3009, Monroe, WI
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by quantAndHold »

Honestly, yeah, it’s a takeaway, but the couple of times I tried to use it, it was useless anyway. I messaged, then couple of days later, I got a message back that either didn’t answer my question or told me to call them. So I stopped using it and just called when I needed something, which was maybe once a decade.

I’m not a Vanguard apologist, I think there’s a lot they could do better. But I also think that if this is what tips someone over to Fidelity or Schwab, they were heading out the door anyway.

I would like chat functionality, but I don’t delude myself that I’m gonna get it anytime soon, and I wouldn’t use it enough to make it worth the trouble of moving my money. Part of my money is at Fidelity. Their website is prettier and does more things, but Fidelity has also made more mistakes handling my money.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by DividendMickey »

I got the pop-up message this morning.

As a few others above noted, I find it much more useful to be able to compose a message and send it along to Vanguard. The few times I used the system I got an answer in a day or two, which was fine for a non-emergency.

The irksome part of this is that it leaves customers with no other way to contact Vanguard except by phone. That is unacceptable, especially so in my particular case as I do not hear very well and conducting business on the phone is difficult.

I cannot have my money at a place where it is so hard to get to a representative. I have been a Vanguard customer for years but I really need to look into Fidelity or Schwab now. Very disappointing.
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