Congratulations!sergeant wrote: ↑Tue Aug 03, 2021 4:09 pmI just received an email from Vanguard. They're upgrading my account to Flagship.sergeant wrote: ↑Mon Aug 02, 2021 5:06 pm All these comments about status levels made me go and check. I have well over 2 million with Vanguard and went over a million five years ago. They still have me at Voyager Select. I sent them a message asking for clarification.
I have not received notification about them removing the message center.
[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]
-
- Posts: 1613
- Joined: Wed May 20, 2020 6:36 am
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? |
'Ride,' Pleasure said; |
'Walk,' Joy replied.” |
|
― W.H. Davies
- nisiprius
- Advisory Board
- Posts: 52211
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
- Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Recently, we enhanced our online Vanguard Support Center to better assist you.
This has all the hallmarks of big-company disease. The Support Center seems to be a bad joke. The Official Answer, the managers in charge of the Official Answer won't tell their boss that it doesn't work, and the boss never spends ten minutes with hand-on and never finds out that it doesn't work.
The way to test this would be to collect a hundred actual questions sent via secure message, and find out what percentage of them the Support Center can answer. So far it's been batting zero on the most slo-pitch softball questions I dream up. Maybe I'm wrong and it really has been tested on real questions, but it's hard to believe because so far I haven't been able to concoct a question it can answer.
Let's try a few more. I'll just reproduce question and top hit, but I'll play fair, if a relevant answer is displayed lower down in the results I'll reproduce that, too.
Does the market close on Veterans' Day?
Did you mean: does the market close on veterans veterans' day? day?? [sic!]
Top result: "How do I close my account?" (I swear I didn't plan that one.)
What is the list of NYSE holidays?
Top result: "Browse and filter a complete list of Vanguard ETFs."
What is the difference between VEU and VXUS?
Top result: "Compare fund costs."
What is Vanguard's mailing address?
Top result: "Calling Vanguard from outside the United States?" but,
√3rd result: "Vanguard's mailing address for personal investors."
Is the Wellington fund a good fund?
Top result: "Learn how to exchange a Vanguard mutual fund for another Vanguard mutual fund."
Some vaguely relevant hits like "Mutual fund and ETF screener" and "find similar Vanguard funds."
Fund cost comparison tool
Top result: "Set your preferred cost basis for a fund or an account."
But the seventh hit is the relevant page, √Paying too much for your mutual funds or ETFs?
Can I retire?
Top result: "Should I roll over company stock?"
√But scattered relevant results, #6 and below, "How much to save for retirement," "Retirement income calculator," etc.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA this year?
Top result: "How much to withhold for taxes from your RMD"
There are truly no relevant answers in the next... 12... 20... 50...
Can I simply designate "my children" as beneficiary?
Response: No matches found. It looks like your search didn’t return any results. Try searching for a different keyword or phrase.
Really. Awful. Perhaps three relevant answers out of nine questions.
This has all the hallmarks of big-company disease. The Support Center seems to be a bad joke. The Official Answer, the managers in charge of the Official Answer won't tell their boss that it doesn't work, and the boss never spends ten minutes with hand-on and never finds out that it doesn't work.
The way to test this would be to collect a hundred actual questions sent via secure message, and find out what percentage of them the Support Center can answer. So far it's been batting zero on the most slo-pitch softball questions I dream up. Maybe I'm wrong and it really has been tested on real questions, but it's hard to believe because so far I haven't been able to concoct a question it can answer.
Let's try a few more. I'll just reproduce question and top hit, but I'll play fair, if a relevant answer is displayed lower down in the results I'll reproduce that, too.
Does the market close on Veterans' Day?
Did you mean: does the market close on veterans veterans' day? day?? [sic!]
Top result: "How do I close my account?" (I swear I didn't plan that one.)
What is the list of NYSE holidays?
Top result: "Browse and filter a complete list of Vanguard ETFs."
What is the difference between VEU and VXUS?
Top result: "Compare fund costs."
What is Vanguard's mailing address?
Top result: "Calling Vanguard from outside the United States?" but,
√3rd result: "Vanguard's mailing address for personal investors."
Is the Wellington fund a good fund?
Top result: "Learn how to exchange a Vanguard mutual fund for another Vanguard mutual fund."
Some vaguely relevant hits like "Mutual fund and ETF screener" and "find similar Vanguard funds."
Fund cost comparison tool
Top result: "Set your preferred cost basis for a fund or an account."
But the seventh hit is the relevant page, √Paying too much for your mutual funds or ETFs?
Can I retire?
Top result: "Should I roll over company stock?"
√But scattered relevant results, #6 and below, "How much to save for retirement," "Retirement income calculator," etc.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA this year?
Top result: "How much to withhold for taxes from your RMD"
There are truly no relevant answers in the next... 12... 20... 50...
Can I simply designate "my children" as beneficiary?
Response: No matches found. It looks like your search didn’t return any results. Try searching for a different keyword or phrase.
Really. Awful. Perhaps three relevant answers out of nine questions.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
and customers are supposed to trust VG?
not.
thanks for test results…an eye opener for sure.
not.
thanks for test results…an eye opener for sure.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
If that was the answer for ALL inquiries then the conspiracy would be real!nisiprius wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm Does the market close on Veterans' Day?
Did you mean: does the market close on veterans veterans' day? day?? [sic!]
Top result: "How do I close my account?" (I swear I didn't plan that one.)
- Cheez-It Guy
- Posts: 4007
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
It doesn't appear to be a natural language search engine, nor does the prompt say to ask a question. I'm not saying it's a good execution, but I had much better luck on relevant results looking for keywords versus typing extraneous words and punctuation as part of a written query. I looked for "expense ratios", "VTSAX", and "tax forms".nisiprius wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm Recently, we enhanced our online Vanguard Support Center to better assist you.
This has all the hallmarks of big-company disease. The Support Center seems to be a bad joke. The Official Answer, the managers in charge of the Official Answer won't tell their boss that it doesn't work, and the boss never spends ten minutes with hand-on and never finds out that it doesn't work.
The way to test this would be to collect a hundred actual questions sent via secure message, and find out what percentage of them the Support Center can answer. So far it's been batting zero on the most slo-pitch softball questions I dream up. Maybe I'm wrong and it really has been tested on real questions, but it's hard to believe because so far I haven't been able to concoct a question it can answer.
Let's try a few more. I'll just reproduce question and top hit, but I'll play fair, if a relevant answer is displayed lower down in the results I'll reproduce that, too.
Does the market close on Veterans' Day?
Did you mean: does the market close on veterans veterans' day? day?? [sic!]
Top result: "How do I close my account?" (I swear I didn't plan that one.)
What is the list of NYSE holidays?
Top result: "Browse and filter a complete list of Vanguard ETFs."
What is the difference between VEU and VXUS?
Top result: "Compare fund costs."
What is Vanguard's mailing address?
Top result: "Calling Vanguard from outside the United States?" but,
√3rd result: "Vanguard's mailing address for personal investors."
Is the Wellington fund a good fund?
Top result: "Learn how to exchange a Vanguard mutual fund for another Vanguard mutual fund."
Some vaguely relevant hits like "Mutual fund and ETF screener" and "find similar Vanguard funds."
Fund cost comparison tool
Top result: "Set your preferred cost basis for a fund or an account."
But the seventh hit is the relevant page, √Paying too much for your mutual funds or ETFs?
Can I retire?
Top result: "Should I roll over company stock?"
√But scattered relevant results, #6 and below, "How much to save for retirement," "Retirement income calculator," etc.
How much can I contribute to a Roth IRA this year?
Top result: "How much to withhold for taxes from your RMD"
There are truly no relevant answers in the next... 12... 20... 50...
Can I simply designate "my children" as beneficiary?
Response: No matches found. It looks like your search didn’t return any results. Try searching for a different keyword or phrase.
Really. Awful. Perhaps three relevant answers out of nine questions.
-
- Posts: 4743
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am
- Location: New Jersey, USA
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
At the 2018 BH conference, Tim Buckley told Mel that he thought the "Statements history problem had been solved." and was surprised to hear continued complaints. It fits perfectly into the Big Company disease diagnosis. BTW, those statements are still not fixed and the work-around while usable, is hidden, poorly documented and just plain not very helpful.nisiprius wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm This has all the hallmarks of big-company disease. The Support Center seems to be a bad joke. The Official Answer, the managers in charge of the Official Answer won't tell their boss that it doesn't work, and the boss never spends ten minutes with hand-on and never finds out that it doesn't work.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
To be fair, try those questions with Fidelity's automated chat tool.
-
- Posts: 4743
- Joined: Sat Jul 08, 2017 10:09 am
- Location: New Jersey, USA
-
- Posts: 9475
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Why not just google your questions to bogleheads? There's more useful information here about Vanguard and Fidelity than there is on Vanguard and Fidelity's websites.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Indeed, right now it appears simpler queries may be better, not that I expect users to know that.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:44 pmIt doesn't appear to be a natural language search engine, nor does the prompt say to ask a question. I'm not saying it's a good execution, but I had much better luck on relevant results looking for keywords versus typing extraneous words and punctuation as part of a written query. I looked for "expense ratios", "VTSAX", and "tax forms".nisiprius wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 6:18 pm ...
What is Vanguard's mailing address?
Top result: "Calling Vanguard from outside the United States?" but,
√3rd result: "Vanguard's mailing address for personal investors."
Via the magnifying glass icon on the home page, using the regular search for mailing address, the first match result is the right URL: mailing address. This redirects to an interactive page that prompts "Tell us about what you’re mailing so we can give you the correct address".
By contrast, using the Support Center search for mailing address, the first result is a decent match: Vanguard's mailing address for personal investors which actually may provide the same mailing address but it seems less comprehensive.
Anyway, there are multiple search mechanisms with inconsistent results. Not good.
My guess is that for the regular search, Vanguard got so many people over the years querying for "mailing address" that they hard-coded the first result.
-
- Posts: 3369
- Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 pm
- Location: Denver area. Former Texan.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
I don’t think Fidelity’s will be much better. I tried the mailing address one and it was pretty decent:
“We strongly encourage the use online forms whenever possible. Ask me a question, such as "I need to update my beneficiaries", to learn about digital options available to you. We care about our people, and less paper allows more of our associates to work safely from home.
For a full list of our mailing addresses, visit Fidelity Mailing Addresses
If you're depositing a check, please use Mobile check deposit“
But the point is- if I can’t figure it out at Fidelity, I can LIVE CHAT or I can call or I can go into the office or send a secure message or go on Reddit or…
Big difference…
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Yeah, I just use Google to find stuff on the site. Just add the word "vanguard". You can also add "site:personal.vanguard.com" to really focus it, but it usually isn't necessary.
The google sourced questions are always better than the frustrating results from the actual site search
The google sourced questions are always better than the frustrating results from the actual site search
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
When I mentioned earlier that the banks (and credit unions) I've dealt with all seem to have added secure messaging and more on line and phone features, I should have also stated that most of these financial institutions are local or regional (as far as brick and mortar locations). Only one was I believe nationwide brick and mortar and it actually had absolutely the best phone service of anyone I dealt with, greatly improved during the pandemic and surprising because their brick and mortar service was not great. (Checked and it is only northeast US and FLA).
In this area there are no brick and mortar offices of some of the "nationwide" banks, financial providers, like Citi, Chase, or Fidelity, etc. There is a Schwab office.
In this area there are no brick and mortar offices of some of the "nationwide" banks, financial providers, like Citi, Chase, or Fidelity, etc. There is a Schwab office.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
I'm not sure, but I think but I think the point of the exercise was to show that the automated chat is not a substitute for being able to email the support center, so unless Fidelity is getting rid of its email service that's not all that relevant.
I will say after years of not using the chat I did have a question that seemed perfect for it-- whether a particular ETF that had recently been established was eligible for dividend reinvestment.
Since I have a vestigial account at Schwab and most of my money at Vanguard I sent off message center emails to both. Schwab responded in 4 or 5 hours to say it was.
Vanguard took two days to tell me it wasn't because it doesn't pay dividends. So I had to message center them again to point out (again) it was newly established and had announced it would pay dividends on a quarterly basis so could they tell me if it would be eligible. This time I waited 2 or 3 days and they told me they were unable to answer the question at this time.
I can tell you where I will be purchasing that ETF.
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:45 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
So, I was talking to my husband about the recent changes at Vanguard and he said, "What about Edward Jones?"
Guess I'd better start researching Schwab funds sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
I'm willing to go higher if necessary.
I mean, how much would you pay to get information that you can 100% count on to be accurate and up to date, and can read and digest at your own pace? Keep in mind that at some point the typical nest egg is going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, right? So we're not talking a $50 disputed credit card charge.
When any of that money has to be moved, there are all kinds of rules and requirements that have to be followed. Done incorrectly, there could be serious tax consequences for the investor or their heirs (or am I wrong about that?)
The vast majority of what I need to do with our accounts can be accomplished independently, right on the Vanguard website. I don't have to bother another living soul. I love that. And it's the same way with most of our other accounts. But on the rare occasion that more help is needed, secure messaging, or the ability to contact someone by email, has been a godsend. All of our other accounts offer us some way to get in touch with them that doesn't require us to call.
When Vanguard no longer offers that option, I can probably cobble together what I need through a combination of snail mail and phone calls. But my husband can't, and doesn't want to.
I'm glad we realized this flaw in our original plan (for him to stay with Vanguard when I pass) so that I can be there to help him with the transition.
Thank you to runninginvestor for starting this thread, and to everyone else who has shared their thoughts.
Guess I'd better start researching Schwab funds sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
I'm willing to go higher if necessary.
I mean, how much would you pay to get information that you can 100% count on to be accurate and up to date, and can read and digest at your own pace? Keep in mind that at some point the typical nest egg is going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, right? So we're not talking a $50 disputed credit card charge.
When any of that money has to be moved, there are all kinds of rules and requirements that have to be followed. Done incorrectly, there could be serious tax consequences for the investor or their heirs (or am I wrong about that?)
The vast majority of what I need to do with our accounts can be accomplished independently, right on the Vanguard website. I don't have to bother another living soul. I love that. And it's the same way with most of our other accounts. But on the rare occasion that more help is needed, secure messaging, or the ability to contact someone by email, has been a godsend. All of our other accounts offer us some way to get in touch with them that doesn't require us to call.
When Vanguard no longer offers that option, I can probably cobble together what I need through a combination of snail mail and phone calls. But my husband can't, and doesn't want to.
I'm glad we realized this flaw in our original plan (for him to stay with Vanguard when I pass) so that I can be there to help him with the transition.
Thank you to runninginvestor for starting this thread, and to everyone else who has shared their thoughts.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
There should not be a charge to contact Vanguard when Vanguard is responsible for the error or when Vanguard can't answer the questions or when Vanguard doesn't follow up and causes you to have to contact them multiple times to resolve a problem.
Vanguard does already charge for telephone assisted transactions that can otherwise be done without assistance online.
And there should be no charge to use secure email to transfer documents securely to Vanguard that Vanguard requires.
Vanguard also has forms that they will not allow you to download yourself. The only way too get the form is to contact customer service and have them send you the form via secure email or at worst snail mail. And these are blank forms with no customer information shown. You should not be paying an additional charge for something you can't possibly do online.
Vanguard needs a 24/7 contact for account problens/errors to report the error/problem and prevent further problems.
For general questions, Vanguard could provide x number of free inquiries a month by secure email and then require phone contact for additional questions if they believe there are too many frivolous secure email inquiries. Although, I don't know who would want to contact them unless absolutely necessary since it takes up a lot of time by phone and via email one often cannot get an answer or gets the response of "call them". I have emailed when I searched their web site and could not find anything even close to the information I needed and for that they should be taking notes and fixing the search engine.
Vanguard does already charge for telephone assisted transactions that can otherwise be done without assistance online.
And there should be no charge to use secure email to transfer documents securely to Vanguard that Vanguard requires.
Vanguard also has forms that they will not allow you to download yourself. The only way too get the form is to contact customer service and have them send you the form via secure email or at worst snail mail. And these are blank forms with no customer information shown. You should not be paying an additional charge for something you can't possibly do online.
Vanguard needs a 24/7 contact for account problens/errors to report the error/problem and prevent further problems.
For general questions, Vanguard could provide x number of free inquiries a month by secure email and then require phone contact for additional questions if they believe there are too many frivolous secure email inquiries. Although, I don't know who would want to contact them unless absolutely necessary since it takes up a lot of time by phone and via email one often cannot get an answer or gets the response of "call them". I have emailed when I searched their web site and could not find anything even close to the information I needed and for that they should be taking notes and fixing the search engine.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Fees proposed for emailing customer service with a 30 second response required? No thank you.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Pay for something that is free else where? Forget it. We moved my spouses taxable to Vanguard a few years ago. You just have to make sure cost basis transfers properly. I have done plenty of rollovers of tax advantaged accounts, really not a big deal.barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm So, I was talking to my husband about the recent changes at Vanguard and he said, "What about Edward Jones?"
Guess I'd better start researching Schwab funds sooner rather than later.
In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
I'm willing to go higher if necessary.
I mean, how much would you pay to get information that you can 100% count on to be accurate and up to date, and can read and digest at your own pace? Keep in mind that at some point the typical nest egg is going to be hundreds of thousands of dollars, if not more, right? So we're not talking a $50 disputed credit card charge.
When any of that money has to be moved, there are all kinds of rules and requirements that have to be followed. Done incorrectly, there could be serious tax consequences for the investor or their heirs (or am I wrong about that?)
The vast majority of what I need to do with our accounts can be accomplished independently, right on the Vanguard website. I don't have to bother another living soul. I love that. And it's the same way with most of our other accounts. But on the rare occasion that more help is needed, secure messaging, or the ability to contact someone by email, has been a godsend. All of our other accounts offer us some way to get in touch with them that doesn't require us to call.
When Vanguard no longer offers that option, I can probably cobble together what I need through a combination of snail mail and phone calls. But my husband can't, and doesn't want to.
I'm glad we realized this flaw in our original plan (for him to stay with Vanguard when I pass) so that I can be there to help him with the transition.
Thank you to runninginvestor for starting this thread, and to everyone else who has shared their thoughts.
- nisiprius
- Advisory Board
- Posts: 52211
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
- Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Last edited by nisiprius on Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:09 am, edited 2 times in total.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
- nisiprius
- Advisory Board
- Posts: 52211
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
- Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
I have a weird theory, just a guess, but I'm curious about something and I don't think I want to torture myself by downloading smartphone apps...
a beta version of something is available...
Introducing Vanguard's Beacon App
My theory is that we are not looking at evil marketing (de-feature Voyager to make Flagship look good by comparison) and we are not looking at cost-cutting (it can't be all that much cheaper to answer stupid questions by phone than by message). My theory is that we are looking at an all-new codebase, with the website for the desktop likely running from the same code as the app... and that nobody has gotten around to writing a email-like-messaging module for it.
Afterthought: possibly because they think their customers don't use keyboards.
a beta version of something is available...
Introducing Vanguard's Beacon App
But there's a sort of veiled warning:Vanguard is introducing a new mobile app in a few short weeks—we're calling it Beacon. We invite you to download it and see what we've built so far. Get a feel for the new design—What matters to you? Which features do you love? And what would you like to see in the future?
So here's my question for anyone who uses the old app. Does it have a messaging facility?Keep the old, test-drive the new... If you use our existing Vanguard app, keep it installed. In a few short weeks, when we launch the new and improved version, your Vanguard app will automatically update to reflect all the changes we incorporated into Beacon. And, the current Vanguard app will host exclusive features that won't be available in Beacon right away.
My theory is that we are not looking at evil marketing (de-feature Voyager to make Flagship look good by comparison) and we are not looking at cost-cutting (it can't be all that much cheaper to answer stupid questions by phone than by message). My theory is that we are looking at an all-new codebase, with the website for the desktop likely running from the same code as the app... and that nobody has gotten around to writing a email-like-messaging module for it.
Afterthought: possibly because they think their customers don't use keyboards.
Last edited by nisiprius on Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:45 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Holy cow. That whole page looks new….is it?
Also - This Digital Advisor program - also new??? https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/digital-advisor/
- nisiprius
- Advisory Board
- Posts: 52211
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
- Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Yeah, there was something about that a few months ago. They will have both human-based Vanguard Personal Advisor, and Vanguard Digital Advisor which is a direct attempt to compete with all the robo-advisors.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:13 am...Also - This Digital Advisor program - also new??? https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/digital-advisor/...
Vanguard Group unleashes its advice robot with analysts sure that 15 basis points and no-nonsense brand will net billions in no time....
...The two biggest robo-advisors, Schwab's and Betterment's, are similar in that they came to market as mostly automated, then slowly, arguably grudgingly, added humans to the mix at a slightly higher price. Vanguard has gone the opposite direction -- and now we'll see how that works out....
...Vanguard Group finally unleashed Digital Advisor into a surprisingly uncrowded and uncompetitive robo-advice market...
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:45 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Huh. Totally missed that. I need to get out more oftenYeah, there was something about that a few months ago. They will have both human-based Vanguard Personal Advisor, and Vanguard Digital Advisor which is a direct attempt to compete with all the robo-advisors.
Thanks nisipruis
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Another Boglehead reported that VG's Digital Advisor unexpectedly moved his allocation from 65% equities to 85% equities. He/she wasn't happy: viewtopic.php?t=317225barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:13 am
Also - This Digital Advisor program - also new??? https://investor.vanguard.com/advice/digital-advisor/
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Yes. And I guess it is really secure because, after logging in on my iPhone with Face ID, when I clicked on the Messages option I had to enter my actual password, and then enter a code sent via text message to my device. (To be a bit fair, though, I do not use the app very often.)
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
^^^ FYI - That thread is from 2020, over 1 year old.
- RickBoglehead
- Posts: 7877
- Joined: Wed Feb 14, 2018 8:10 am
- Location: In a house
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
This is a joke, right?barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Avid user of forums on variety of interests-financial, home brewing, F-150, EV, home repair, etc. Enjoy learning & passing on knowledge. It's PRINCIPAL, not PRINCIPLE. I ADVISE you to seek ADVICE.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
I'd pay extra money to make sure Vanguard kept track of my cost basis correctly.
- jeffyscott
- Posts: 13484
- Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 8:12 am
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Similar to some other responses from Vanguard, ours says in part:
We will be introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally, in
the future. You are correct that over time, the ability to send a message
on Vanguard.com will be removed.
No explanation as to why they are not "introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally", before taking away the old way.
We will be introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally, in
the future. You are correct that over time, the ability to send a message
on Vanguard.com will be removed.
No explanation as to why they are not "introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally", before taking away the old way.
-
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2012 1:37 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
From what I am seeing, it appears that some Vanguard investors, former investors and soon to be former investors are already communicating with Vanguard digitally...by use of a single digit generally found on the investor's hand.jeffyscott wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 9:55 am Similar to some other responses from Vanguard, ours says in part:
We will be introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally, in
the future. You are correct that over time, the ability to send a message
on Vanguard.com will be removed.
No explanation as to why they are not "introducing new ways to communicate with Vanguard, digitally", before taking away the old way.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
here is a reply I just received from VG regarding message center:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. The feedback you have provided
is important to us.
If you receive a secure message from us you will still be able to reply.
I've forwarded your comments to the appropriate area for review. We’re
always open to ideas for improvements to our website, and it's often
through recommendations like yours that enhancements are made.
For technical assistance on vanguard.com and our mobile app, please contact
your service team at 877-345-1344 and ask to speak with a Web Technical
Support specialist. Our specialists are available Monday through Friday, 8
a.m. to 7 p.m., Eastern time.
For individuals with speech or hearing limitations, we can also be reached
at 800-749-7273.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxx
Support Specialist
Vanguard Web Technical Support Services
ps...I am a Vanguard Voyager client
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. The feedback you have provided
is important to us.
If you receive a secure message from us you will still be able to reply.
I've forwarded your comments to the appropriate area for review. We’re
always open to ideas for improvements to our website, and it's often
through recommendations like yours that enhancements are made.
For technical assistance on vanguard.com and our mobile app, please contact
your service team at 877-345-1344 and ask to speak with a Web Technical
Support specialist. Our specialists are available Monday through Friday, 8
a.m. to 7 p.m., Eastern time.
For individuals with speech or hearing limitations, we can also be reached
at 800-749-7273.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxx
Support Specialist
Vanguard Web Technical Support Services
ps...I am a Vanguard Voyager client
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
I bet they replace it with a "message service" that is actually a bot. Uh, I could read the FAQ's just fine, I am looking for support because my question isn't answered there, please don't waste my time suggesting that this bot version of the FAQ's can help.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Question: Fidelity wants a statement uploaded as part of a transfer. I converted mutual fund shares to ETF this month, so my last statement just has mutual funds on it. Will the right thing happen (my ETFs all transferred)?
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
you should be able to download/print/save as pdf all your "current positions"...this will work just as well...this allows them to see what they can expect to receive from the transfer...
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
"If you receive a secure message from us you will still be able to reply." is different than creating a new message. The "Compose new message" button can disappear, but "Reply" can still be enabled.bondsr4me wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 11:36 am here is a reply I just received from VG regarding message center:
Thank you for taking the time to contact us. The feedback you have provided
is important to us.
If you receive a secure message from us you will still be able to reply.
I've forwarded your comments to the appropriate area for review. We’re
always open to ideas for improvements to our website, and it's often
through recommendations like yours that enhancements are made.
For technical assistance on vanguard.com and our mobile app, please contact
your service team at 877-345-1344 and ask to speak with a Web Technical
Support specialist. Our specialists are available Monday through Friday, 8
a.m. to 7 p.m., Eastern time.
For individuals with speech or hearing limitations, we can also be reached
at 800-749-7273.
Sincerely,
xxxxxxxx
Support Specialist
Vanguard Web Technical Support Services
ps...I am a Vanguard Voyager client
I interpret that reply to mean the rep can create a new secure message, but you can't. You'll need to ask the rep to send you a secure message. "Send me a secure message so I can ask you about my account." That's twice the work for the rep and a delay for you.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Just breeze through the statement step without uploading anything. If you get your account number right, it will proceed
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
-
- Posts: 459
- Joined: Mon Feb 19, 2007 5:45 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
No. Not a joke. And not sarcasm. Do I reasonably expect that anyone else will ok with paying a fee? No I do not. But I am quite serious when I say that I would pay it. My point is that this is an important feature to me. In my experience, written correspondence has unique advantages that no other method of communication can match. And electronic messaging is much more convenient than the alternatives.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 amThis is a joke, right?barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Up until now, I’ve been very happy with Vanguard. For whatever reason, my husband and I haven’t run into some of the problems that others here on the forums have, and I sincerely believed that he and our children would be in good hands if they stayed with Vanguard.
As much as I dislike this change, taking away secure messaging without replacing it with something comparable is not a deal breaker for me: I can find ways to make it work. The main issue, I think, is that Vanguard’s decision to do this, and especially the way that they’re doing it, has shaken my confidence in the company and in my ability to make good decisions, while raising fears about what the future holds for investors that have less than a million plus dollars.
I’m flabbergasted that out of all the companies we deal with online, the one we entrusted with all of our retirement funds is the only one doing this. I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
In the meantime, I’m pleased to hear that Vanguard has been responding to inquiries about the change.
And I really can’t complain too much because on a personal level, this “ crisis” made me realize that there are flaws in my thinking about how things might play out for my husband should I predecease him. Figuring out what will work best for him is what I’m going to focus on going forward.
I hope that we Bogleheads can continue to support each other regardless of which path we choose to take to Dublin.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
LadyGeek wins!LadyGeek wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 4:19 pm Let me introduce you to the wiki.
- Cost basis methods
- Tax loss harvesting
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Many people need an in person branch for one reason or another upon the financial-y spouse's passing, Vanguard has none.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:16 pmNo. Not a joke. And not sarcasm. Do I reasonably expect that anyone else will ok with paying a fee? No I do not. But I am quite serious when I say that I would pay it. My point is that this is an important feature to me. In my experience, written correspondence has unique advantages that no other method of communication can match. And electronic messaging is much more convenient than the alternatives.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 amThis is a joke, right?barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Up until now, I’ve been very happy with Vanguard. For whatever reason, my husband and I haven’t run into some of the problems that others here on the forums have, and I sincerely believed that he and our children would be in good hands if they stayed with Vanguard.
As much as I dislike this change, taking away secure messaging without replacing it with something comparable is not a deal breaker for me: I can find ways to make it work. The main issue, I think, is that Vanguard’s decision to do this, and especially the way that they’re doing it, has shaken my confidence in the company and in my ability to make good decisions, while raising fears about what the future holds for investors that have less than a million plus dollars.
I’m flabbergasted that out of all the companies we deal with online, the one we entrusted with all of our retirement funds is the only one doing this. I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
In the meantime, I’m pleased to hear that Vanguard has been responding to inquiries about the change.
And I really can’t complain too much because on a personal level, this “ crisis” made me realize that there are flaws in my thinking about how things might play out for my husband should I predecease him. Figuring out what will work best for him is what I’m going to focus on going forward.
I hope that we Bogleheads can continue to support each other regardless of which path we choose to take to Dublin.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Fidelity and Schwab do not have branches in some areas...nalor511 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:20 pmMany people need an in person branch for one reason or another upon the financial-y spouse's passing, Vanguard has none.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:16 pmNo. Not a joke. And not sarcasm. Do I reasonably expect that anyone else will ok with paying a fee? No I do not. But I am quite serious when I say that I would pay it. My point is that this is an important feature to me. In my experience, written correspondence has unique advantages that no other method of communication can match. And electronic messaging is much more convenient than the alternatives.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 amThis is a joke, right?barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Up until now, I’ve been very happy with Vanguard. For whatever reason, my husband and I haven’t run into some of the problems that others here on the forums have, and I sincerely believed that he and our children would be in good hands if they stayed with Vanguard.
As much as I dislike this change, taking away secure messaging without replacing it with something comparable is not a deal breaker for me: I can find ways to make it work. The main issue, I think, is that Vanguard’s decision to do this, and especially the way that they’re doing it, has shaken my confidence in the company and in my ability to make good decisions, while raising fears about what the future holds for investors that have less than a million plus dollars.
I’m flabbergasted that out of all the companies we deal with online, the one we entrusted with all of our retirement funds is the only one doing this. I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
In the meantime, I’m pleased to hear that Vanguard has been responding to inquiries about the change.
And I really can’t complain too much because on a personal level, this “ crisis” made me realize that there are flaws in my thinking about how things might play out for my husband should I predecease him. Figuring out what will work best for him is what I’m going to focus on going forward.
I hope that we Bogleheads can continue to support each other regardless of which path we choose to take to Dublin.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
So you are suggesting going with the company with zero branches over the companies with lots, on the off chance there may not be one nearby?anon_investor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:25 pmFidelity and Schwab do not have branches in some areas...nalor511 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:20 pmMany people need an in person branch for one reason or another upon the financial-y spouse's passing, Vanguard has none.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:16 pmNo. Not a joke. And not sarcasm. Do I reasonably expect that anyone else will ok with paying a fee? No I do not. But I am quite serious when I say that I would pay it. My point is that this is an important feature to me. In my experience, written correspondence has unique advantages that no other method of communication can match. And electronic messaging is much more convenient than the alternatives.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 amThis is a joke, right?barefootjan wrote: ↑Wed Aug 04, 2021 10:28 pm In the meantime, I wrote to Vanguard to ask if they'd be willing to charge customers an annual fee to help cover the costs of providing secure messaging. I'm thinking it could be similar to the annual "per account" fee they have (or used to have) for investors just starting out. Of course, that would only work if others are also willing to pay it.
I didn't suggest a per use fee, but if that makes more sense, I'd be OK with that as well. I don't know what would be a fair cost - maybe $25-$75 per message or encounter?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Up until now, I’ve been very happy with Vanguard. For whatever reason, my husband and I haven’t run into some of the problems that others here on the forums have, and I sincerely believed that he and our children would be in good hands if they stayed with Vanguard.
As much as I dislike this change, taking away secure messaging without replacing it with something comparable is not a deal breaker for me: I can find ways to make it work. The main issue, I think, is that Vanguard’s decision to do this, and especially the way that they’re doing it, has shaken my confidence in the company and in my ability to make good decisions, while raising fears about what the future holds for investors that have less than a million plus dollars.
I’m flabbergasted that out of all the companies we deal with online, the one we entrusted with all of our retirement funds is the only one doing this. I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
In the meantime, I’m pleased to hear that Vanguard has been responding to inquiries about the change.
And I really can’t complain too much because on a personal level, this “ crisis” made me realize that there are flaws in my thinking about how things might play out for my husband should I predecease him. Figuring out what will work best for him is what I’m going to focus on going forward.
I hope that we Bogleheads can continue to support each other regardless of which path we choose to take to Dublin.
- anon_investor
- Posts: 15122
- Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
No, but if someone needs an in person branch Schwab and Fidelity may not work for them in some areas.nalor511 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:26 pmSo you are suggesting going with the company with zero branches over the companies with lots, on the off chance there may not be one nearby?anon_investor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:25 pmFidelity and Schwab do not have branches in some areas...nalor511 wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:20 pmMany people need an in person branch for one reason or another upon the financial-y spouse's passing, Vanguard has none.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:16 pmNo. Not a joke. And not sarcasm. Do I reasonably expect that anyone else will ok with paying a fee? No I do not. But I am quite serious when I say that I would pay it. My point is that this is an important feature to me. In my experience, written correspondence has unique advantages that no other method of communication can match. And electronic messaging is much more convenient than the alternatives.RickBoglehead wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 8:27 am
This is a joke, right?
Years ago, before the internet, I worked at a company that sold products via catalog, and either mail-in orders or calling a phone number. That number was not toll-free, and back then long distance phone calls cost money.
As competitors moved to toll-free order lines, we considered it. Huge expense. We did a year-long study, 2 states got catalogs with a toll-free number, 2 states didn't. At the end of the year, the test proved that... it made no difference, i.e. we didn't get less orders with a phone number that cost money to call, or more orders with a toll-free number (depends on your viewpoint). But, we decided we had to go with a toll-free number due to competitive pressures - i.e. everyone was doing it.
No one charges for secure messaging. To think that any company could is simply silly.
Up until now, I’ve been very happy with Vanguard. For whatever reason, my husband and I haven’t run into some of the problems that others here on the forums have, and I sincerely believed that he and our children would be in good hands if they stayed with Vanguard.
As much as I dislike this change, taking away secure messaging without replacing it with something comparable is not a deal breaker for me: I can find ways to make it work. The main issue, I think, is that Vanguard’s decision to do this, and especially the way that they’re doing it, has shaken my confidence in the company and in my ability to make good decisions, while raising fears about what the future holds for investors that have less than a million plus dollars.
I’m flabbergasted that out of all the companies we deal with online, the one we entrusted with all of our retirement funds is the only one doing this. I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
In the meantime, I’m pleased to hear that Vanguard has been responding to inquiries about the change.
And I really can’t complain too much because on a personal level, this “ crisis” made me realize that there are flaws in my thinking about how things might play out for my husband should I predecease him. Figuring out what will work best for him is what I’m going to focus on going forward.
I hope that we Bogleheads can continue to support each other regardless of which path we choose to take to Dublin.
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
Unlike twenty (20) years ago, you have lots of choices. Now you can hold Vanguard funds at any major brokerage. ETFs at virtually all of them with no commissions or additional fees. Mutual funds at most and, in many cases, with no additional fees or costs.barefootjan wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:16 pm I think it’s clear from my posts that I’m struggling to wrap my brain around that but, you know, what choice do I have?
And those other brokerages provide things like 24/7 phone support, live chat, secure messaging, staffed offices, direct phone lines and emails to dedicated representatives and many other services and features not available at Vanguard. Almost every investor can transfer their portfolio "in kind" and own the same great funds, but receive much more competent and responsive service.
Of course, one can always remain at Vanguard if they choose. But they should be understand that in the near future they may only be able to reach Vanguard by phone, M-F 8am-8pm ET. While some may not lose secure messaging yet, given Vanguard's history of slashing many services and benefits and monetizing others, I suspect it is only a matter of time...
So lots of choices!
Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]
And for those investors, there is Edward Jones.anon_investor wrote: ↑Thu Aug 05, 2021 6:29 pmNo, but if someone needs an in person branch Schwab and Fidelity may not work for them in some areas.