[Vanguard may remove secure messages, members transitioning out of Vanguard]

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quantAndHold
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by quantAndHold »

I haven’t gotten the popup either (Flagship). I do get other popups, sometimes to the point of annoyance. So it don’t think that it’s that they sent it but I didn’t receive it.
DividendMickey
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by DividendMickey »

Whakamole wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:09 pm
DividendMickey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:04 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:50 pm OK, that's better than I thought. If the flagship rep isn't getting an email and only accesses the info via web browser, that's OK by me.

Removal of the Message Center will factor in my decision to move to Fidelity (or stay with Vanguard).
I agree and have been researching the move to Fidelity all day. The prominence of the "virtual assistant" in nearly every screen at Fidelity is giving me pause. I was able to send a secure email, which is nice.

However, I am not entirely sure Fidelity has a live chat feature, while Schwab does seem to have it. It's not made clear on the Fidelity site that you can chat with a live person. Even a listing of live chat hours would be helpful, although I could have missed it.

Very confusing going thus far...
You can type "I want to talk to a representative" in the virtual assistant window. It will ask you for a brief summary of your question, and connect you to a representative. I did this earlier this morning, I'm not even sure it was a minute before a rep came on the line. I agree it is not as good as it should be, but it is still infinitely better than Vanguard's lack of chat.

I don't mind the idea of a system that tries to help you with self-help first, I do mind when it either takes forever to talk to a person or prevents you from doing it entirely.
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Doom&Gloom
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Doom&Gloom »

Whakamole wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:09 pm
DividendMickey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:04 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:50 pm OK, that's better than I thought. If the flagship rep isn't getting an email and only accesses the info via web browser, that's OK by me.

Removal of the Message Center will factor in my decision to move to Fidelity (or stay with Vanguard).
I agree and have been researching the move to Fidelity all day. The prominence of the "virtual assistant" in nearly every screen at Fidelity is giving me pause. I was able to send a secure email, which is nice.

However, I am not entirely sure Fidelity has a live chat feature, while Schwab does seem to have it. It's not made clear on the Fidelity site that you can chat with a live person. Even a listing of live chat hours would be helpful, although I could have missed it.

Very confusing going thus far...
You can type "I want to talk to a representative" in the virtual assistant window. It will ask you for a brief summary of your question, and connect you to a representative. I did this earlier this morning, I'm not even sure it was a minute before a rep came on the line. I agree it is not as good as it should be, but it is still infinitely better than Vanguard's lack of chat.

I don't mind the idea of a system that tries to help you with self-help first, I do mind when it either takes forever to talk to a person or prevents you from doing it entirely.
That seems very similar to pressing "0" on the old telephone tree systems at a lot of merchants to be connected directly to a CSR. Once that became widely known, that option seemed to disappear from those systems. I would expect a similar result with the Fidelity system as described. Who wants to play ping-pong with a virtual assistant if they don't have to?

The more I think about it, the less likely I think it is that VG will simply remove their SM without replacing it with something. At any rate I will probably choose to sit tight with VG until I encounter a problem rather than going to some bother to avoid an issue that may never materialize. I can easily understand others taking different paths.
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Tubes
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Tubes »

Some mentioned "drip, drip, drip" removal of services. So true! Someone else mentioned that little perks matter. True! The free Quicken comes to mind. I laughed when people were concerned about the removal.

I'm laughing no more.

We're frogs slowly being boiled in water. All this is concerning because it is going in one direction only.

I saw this at Megacorp. It was a great place to work at first, yet over 15 years they got the water to boiling. Even while boiling we were in denial, until one day the water dried and we fried. What was a nice soak in the tub became hell...very slowly.

I'm putting no new money in VG. It will go to Fidelity. And I'm going to consider moving my IRAs. That's easy to do.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by lazynovice »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:15 pm
lazynovice wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:06 pm
Whakamole wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:13 pm
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:00 pm
Doc wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:53 pm

Or I can go to her office during business hours or even walk over to her house (after making sure her husband is home of course.) :D
:oops: Completely forgot about being able to go to the office! Make that number eight on the list! (You can add going to your consultant's house as number nine on your list, but unless I'm invited over for dinner and drinks, I'm not popping by my consultant's house...) :beer
Are there limits on what you can do after-hours on the 24/7 lines? Typically I've found some things need to be done during normal business hours only.

Someone should put together a similar list for Fidelity. We definitely have secure message/chat/phone, offices, and if you want consultants though I've never used them.
I’ll add for Fidelity, they are very active on their official Reddit forum. They answer questions and their head of brokerage services has done Ask Me Anything forums and posts videos updating customers. Former RobinHood customers are pushing Fidelity IT development hard and Fidelity is rising to the occasion. They are responding with “we hear you loud and clear” and the improvements are benefiting everyone. Completely different culture than Vanguard.

Incoming on posts from loyal Vanguard posters on how they don’t want Vanguard to spend money on these things. But I will remind you, they are spending your money on something, because their ERs are no longer competitive. Their TSM fund fees at .04 is 2.7x Fidelity’s. Talk all you want about out of date tax efficiency issues, Vanguard is charging 2.7x what Fidelity charges and using that money for what?

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
VTI has the same 0.03% ER as all comparable liquid total market ETFs like ITOT, SCHB, SPTM. So if you want tax efficiency at Fidelity you still can't do better.
What about mutual fund owners? There are a lot of them.
newton
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by newton »

The message says VG support is here to help. The next sentence tells you to search the site. Thanks for the help. Silly me, why would I want to contact the company that holds my life savings? Still waiting for return a phone call, (I called in response to their request) but, in fairness, I was told it would be MORE than 30 minutes. It's now over 3 days. How to get rid of pesky customers: cut communications and staff while growing and having poor service well publicized. Earnestine now works at VG. The company is too big to go away. Several very satisfied customers have posted here. To Quote Yogi Berra: "Nobody goes there anymore. It's too crowded."
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by bertilak »

DividendMickey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:04 pm The prominence of the "virtual assistant" in nearly every screen at Fidelity is giving me pause.
I'm seeing more and more of that (virtual assistant nonsense) lately (not at Vanguard -- yet). It is just a silly way to search the FAQ (or help screens or equivalent) for you -- all the places you will have already looked before trying to contact a human. In other words, it is a "nothing burger" that they pretend is a quarter pounder with cheese. "Hello! I am Cynthia, your virtual assistant!" It is a waste of time. Worse, it is a waste of time just when you are in a tight spot and not in the mood for nonsense.

I hope Vanguard doesn't think that's a good replacement for messaging. If Fidelity is doing it, I'm fearful. I'm also fearful I will need to get a Facebook, Twitter, or Reddit account to get any kind of support! I think it might be coming to the point if you are not on Facebook you don't exist!
Last edited by bertilak on Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nalor511
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

DividendMickey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:04 pm
LadyGeek wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 3:50 pm OK, that's better than I thought. If the flagship rep isn't getting an email and only accesses the info via web browser, that's OK by me.

Removal of the Message Center will factor in my decision to move to Fidelity (or stay with Vanguard).
I agree and have been researching the move to Fidelity all day. The prominence of the "virtual assistant" in nearly every screen at Fidelity is giving me pause. I was able to send a secure email, which is nice.

However, I am not entirely sure Fidelity has a live chat feature, while Schwab does seem to have it. It's not made clear on the Fidelity site that you can chat with a live person. Even a listing of live chat hours would be helpful, although I could have missed it.

Very confusing going thus far...
Fidelity has live chat, just type "representative"

Fidelity virtual assistant is also way better than Vanguard help search page. It's not a gimmick, it works too speed my navigation of the site immensely.
Whakamole
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Whakamole »

bertilak wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:38 pm
DividendMickey wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:04 pm The prominence of the "virtual assistant" in nearly every screen at Fidelity is giving me pause.
I'm seeing more and more of that (virtual assistant nonsense) lately (not at Vanguard -- yet). It is just a silly way to search the FAQ (or help screens or equivalent) for you -- all the places you will have already looked before trying to contact a human. In other words, it is a "nothing burger" that they pretend is a quarter pounder with cheese. "Hello! I am Cynthia, your virtual assistant!" It is a waste of time. Worse, it is a waste of time just when you are in a tight spot and not in the mood for nonsense.

I hope Vanguard doesn't think that's a good replacement for messaging. If Fidelity is doing it, I'm fearful.
It's there for chat, which worked this morning (I may have waited a minute between the request and getting a rep.) They still have physical locations, secure messages, and phone calls, and you can contact them on weekends as well. I used to call in frequently to get my mega backdoor Roth contributions moved to a Roth account, and always got good, fast service.

I've heard good things about Schwab but haven't used it, others here seem to be very happy there.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Woodshark »

For the past few years I've read these posts about the decline of Vanguard's services. I always hoped that they were going to introduce something better but it was taking a long time to implement. (a man can dream right?) I've been with them for decades and now it looks like they are working hard to change the company from user friendly to user hostile. With this "new and un-improved" interface, I am going to have to seriously look into transfering our entire portfolio over to Schwab or Fidelity.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:39 pm...Fidelity has live chat, just type "representative"...
Does Fidelity's live chat appear to contact the same cohort of people that answer phone calls?

In principal I like live chat because of the possibility of capturing a written transcript, pasting in account numbers and such and not worrying about transcription errors. I've used it successfully on various websites. But I'm leery of it because of experiences that suggest that you are often reaching a cohort with less training, less ability to handle slightly complicated situations, and less empowered to act.

If live chat meant "exactly the same people, just using text instead of voice" I'd use it every time.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

Woodshark wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:08 pm...it looks like they are working hard to change the company from user friendly to user hostile...
Around the late 1990s there was a management fad of trying to deliberately tick off less-profitable customers and hope to get them to leave, and become a burden to competitors. I don't know if business schools actually taught that. It was something that EST graduates (Erhard Seminar Training) believed in.

Anyway you had competing schools of business thought, "delight your customers" versus "disgust your deadwood customers."
Last edited by nisiprius on Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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lazynovice
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:19 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:39 pm...Fidelity has live chat, just type "representative"...
Does Fidelity's live chat appear to contact the same cohort of people that answer phone calls?

In principal I like live chat because of the possibility of capturing a written transcript, pasting in account numbers and such and not worrying about transcription errors. I've used it successfully on various websites. But I'm leery of it because of experiences that suggest that you are often reaching a cohort with less training, less ability to handle slightly complicated situations, and less empowered to act.

If live chat meant "exactly the same people, just using text instead of voice" I'd use it every time.
In my experience, which is limited because the website is intuitive for me and I rarely ask for help, you get the same reps who answer the phones. Which means they can answer most questions. If you have a more complex question, you may be redirected to a particular department and you are sort of pushed to the front of that line. I have gotten an answer of “I cannot do that for you by chat, you have to call or you have to initiate that through this link in the website.” I assume it was a security issue.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nedsaid »

Does Vanguard monitor this site at all? The John Bogle and Vanguard Fanboy and Fangirl site still likes John Bogle but now wonders about the company Bogle founded. This is incredibly sad as this website was a source of goodwill and free publicity for Vanguard. When the Bogleheads have their annual gathering, does Vanguard still host a tour? Does the company care about what is posted here? It just seems that an opportunity for a large company to connect with its most loyal customers seems to have been missed. Hey Vanguard, you got an opportunity here, are you going to take it? Invaluable free advertising just going down the drain. How many companies have their own fan website? There was one that I was aware of and now it seems to be zero. Sad, very sad.
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runninginvestor
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by runninginvestor »

I was getting the pop-up still this morning, didn't get it when I logged on this evening. Non-Flagship. Interesting saga.
Da5id
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

runninginvestor wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:58 pm I was getting the pop-up still this morning, didn't get it when I logged on this evening. Non-Flagship. Interesting saga.
I assume they have a flag per account to avoid showing the same popup too many times.
egrets
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by egrets »

Schwab has knowledgeable humans for chat 24/7.

Some places with a robot chat will transfer you to a human if you type agent.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

nisiprius wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:19 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 4:39 pm...Fidelity has live chat, just type "representative"...
Does Fidelity's live chat appear to contact the same cohort of people that answer phone calls?

In principal I like live chat because of the possibility of capturing a written transcript, pasting in account numbers and such and not worrying about transcription errors. I've used it successfully on various websites. But I'm leery of it because of experiences that suggest that you are often reaching a cohort with less training, less ability to handle slightly complicated situations, and less empowered to act.

If live chat meant "exactly the same people, just using text instead of voice" I'd use it every time.
I used Fidelity live chat one month ago to handle a somewhat complex situation. The initial rep could not help me, so transferred to a manager. The manager called a department that was only available via phone, and kept me abreast via chat while they handled my issue. No complaints here.

In comparison to Vanguard, I sent a Secure email saying I was locked out of changing dividend reinvestment for fund A in account B and could they please turn it off. 48 hours later I received a reply directing me to the help FAQ page re: DRIP, which was supremely unhelpful, considering I had explained that I know how to do it but was locked out, and included a screenshot.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

nedsaid wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 5:51 pm...When the Bogleheads have their annual gathering, does Vanguard still host a tour?...
As of the last one in 2019, yes. There was an event at Vanguard, in the same format as the others I've attended. I wouldn't quite call them "tours" as the only things we saw were the interior of an auditorium and a kind of big lobby or atrium or trade-show-floor-like area outside it.

The event was mostly a session in an auditorium, with Vanguard people, often quite senior, making presentations and answering questions (which attendees wrote on cards and passed in for the emcee to select and read).

Obviously there was no event in 2020.

There was a broad handover of most of the leadership of the John C. Bogle Center for Financial Literacy at the 2019 meeting; you can see the current composition of the leadership here. I have no connection with the center. I am not sure if there are any plans for any more annual meetings in the old format.

John S. Woerth, head of Vanguard's public relations department for 33 years, planned and organized the first visit to the Vanguard campus in 2001 (long, long before my first BH meeting). In 2020 he left that position and became a Senior Communications Advisor at Vanguard.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

I sent a request to verify and if so, retract such plans.
Sent via secure msg.
Surely the ease of sending this compliant will result in the opposite of my goal.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by stan1 »

beyou wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:36 pm I sent a request to verify and if so, retract such plans.
Sent via secure msg.
Surely the ease of sending this compliant will result in the opposite of my goal.
Yep, it will go in the metrics bin as another unnecessary secure message that took X minutes to respond to and further convince management that secure messages waste resources.

I sent them a secure message about a year ago asking them to disable PAS advertisements on my account. A Vanguard employee wrote me a nice note back saying that was not possible. It didn't have the feel of a lawyer approved form letter so I think they actually did not have a canned response to the question. Probably cost them at least $5 to respond, maybe more if a second person had to review it before it was sent back to me.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by water2357 »

Sent Vanguard a secure message asking how they will now notify clients about e.g. maturing securities and the other notices they routinely sent via the message center. The popup appeared on login and the Account Overview page showed the "secure message" link on the right side of the page, near the top (but below the headers/menus).

Reviewed the service offered for various account dollar amounts. They used to have different levels of service at more amounts, e.g. $50,000, $250,000, $500,000 now there is no difference in service from $50,000 to $500,000 and not much difference until over $1,000,000. And it also appears that they are leaning to only favoring accounts over $5,000,000.

Is Fidelity like this, i.e. only want customers with over $5,000,000 invested in their offerings? Or does Fidelity provide more access to customer service representatives at lesser amounts? And for Fidelity, do all of the assets have to be invested in Fidelity Funds/ETFs? What about Schwab, how do you qualify for better service from them?

Putting that much money with one financial institution does not seem prudent, unless of course you are Jeff Bezos and $5,000,000 is only lunch money to you.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nalor511 »

water2357 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:29 pm Sent Vanguard a secure message asking how they will now notify clients about e.g. maturing securities and the other notices they routinely sent via the message center. The popup appeared on login and the Account Overview page showed the "secure message" link on the right side of the page, near the top (but below the headers/menus).

Reviewed the service offered for various account dollar amounts. They used to have different levels of service at more amounts, e.g. $50,000, $250,000, $500,000 now there is no difference in service from $50,000 to $500,000 and not much difference until over $1,000,000. And it also appears that they are leaning to only favoring accounts over $5,000,000.

Is Fidelity like this, i.e. only want customers with over $5,000,000 invested in their offerings? Or does Fidelity provide more access to customer service representatives at lesser amounts? And for Fidelity, do all of the assets have to be invested in Fidelity Funds/ETFs? What about Schwab, how do you qualify for better service from them?

Putting that much money with one financial institution does not seem prudent, unless of course you are Jeff Bezos and $5,000,000 is only lunch money to you.
At fidelity (and Schwab) all customers have 24/7 access via chat, email, phone, and there's physical branches during open hours. If you have more than 100k at Schwab and 1mm at fidelity you'll get a dedicated rep
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HanSolo
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Re: VG Removing Message Center

Post by HanSolo »

nedsaid wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:21 am Customer service is necessary and it does puzzle me a bit to see folks celebrating the cuts to service in the quest for lower and lower fees.
Or is it cuts to service while not lowering fees?
hi_there wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 6:31 pm This seems like absurd and incredibly stingy cost cutting on the part of Vanguard.
water2357 wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 10:55 pm And I don't get the basically no notice that they are doing away with secure email contact. Are they afraid to be honest with their customers about cutting costs or not being able to hire employees or whatever the problem is.
Looking at this post from a few months ago, one may wonder if their spending is going up, not down...
beyou wrote: Fri Mar 05, 2021 11:38 am I work in the fund industry (in IT) and I just read an industry newsletter indicating that Vanguard is spending $1Billion on tech this year, including the new phone app, new 401k site, and I assume the site most of us use.
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Bluce
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Bluce »

Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

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HanSolo
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by HanSolo »

Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
I'm not sure Vanguard's ERs are the lowest (looking at several of their largest funds, anyway). Also, considering Vanguard's growing asset base, their total revenue (ERs multiplied by assets under management) must be soaring.
galawdawg wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:13 pm But, Jack no longer runs the shop and the "new management" seems more interested in maximizing profit for themselves, cutting services and hours and 'monetizing' what used to be free.
I think it's reasonable to ask whether the above is what's happening. If we're the owners, can we find out?

Sometimes there is a free lunch. Just take over a company and raid it (do less with more, and keep the difference).
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HanSolo
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by HanSolo »

galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
...
nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:00 pm At fidelity (and Schwab) all customers have 24/7 access via chat, email, phone, and there's physical branches during open hours. If you have more than 100k at Schwab and 1mm at fidelity you'll get a dedicated rep
I'm not seeing anything on Schwab's website about getting a dedicated rep. The only thing I'm finding related to $100K account balances is a "Managed Account", and (a) I don't really want anyone managing my account, and (b) there are fees being charged for that.

Is there any publicly-available info about the service you mentioned?
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

HanSolo wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 3:30 am
galawdawg wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:01 pm As a Schwab customer, I can't speak for Fidelity, but here are the ways I can speak with someone at Schwab:

1. My dedicated senior financial consultant (CFP, CWS, 22 yrs at Schwab) by direct phone line
...
nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:00 pm At fidelity (and Schwab) all customers have 24/7 access via chat, email, phone, and there's physical branches during open hours. If you have more than 100k at Schwab and 1mm at fidelity you'll get a dedicated rep
I'm not seeing anything on Schwab's website about getting a dedicated rep. The only thing I'm finding related to $100K account balances is a "Managed Account", and (a) I don't really want anyone managing my account, and (b) there are fees being charged for that.

Is there any publicly-available info about the service you mentioned?
Yes. According to their website, Schwab requires $250k to have a dedicated financial consultant. I chose mine by going to the website for the Schwab office closest to me, looking at the "resume" of each of the consultants and selecting the one who appeared to be the best "fit". Then I emailed him directly (there is a contact form for each consultant or you can call the consultant and get their direct email address). https://client.schwab.com/public/consultant/find

Here is the website describing how to qualify for a dedicated financial consultant: https://www.schwab.com/invest-with-us/p ... nal-advice
At Schwab, there's no cost to work with your Financial Consultant. There's no cost whether you're getting assistance in creating your personalized plan, or receiving tailored product recommendations and direct access to our specialists. Pay only for the products and services you choose. Your Financial Consultant can help you determine the level of advice, service, and products you need based on your financial goals. You'll only pay for those that you choose, and any costs will be explained to you.

How can I get access to a Financial Consultant?

Dedicated Financial Consultants are generally made available to clients with $250,000 or more in assets at Schwab. Of course, any Schwab client can talk to an investment professional anytime. You can learn about our range of investment management solutions and we'll work with you to determine the right solution for you.
Since I am a self-directed investor who only uses low-cost index funds, I don't pay anything (other than the ER for my VG mutual funds which is the same at Schwab as Vanguard) and the transaction fees for VG mutual funds has been waived on my account. If you have $250k or more (and some report as little as $100k) in your portfolio, Schwab will waive the transaction fees on one "fund family" of mutual funds, such as Vanguard (Fidelity won't do that). And so far, zero sales pitches from my financial consultant or anyone else at Schwab.

As I mentioned, all Schwab customers can reach them 24/7 via phone support, secure message, and live chat and can also visit a Schwab office. With $250k or more, you have the dedicated financial consultant. If you are considering Schwab, be sure to ask them if they will match any competing transfer bonus office such as the ones currently offered by Ally Invest or E*TRADE.

Hope this is helpful!




Note: Schwab is also a very transparent company, unlike VG. For example, here is a detailed description of exactly how the investment professionals at Schwab are compensated: https://www.schwab.com/legal/compensati ... mpensation
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
They don’t have the lowest ERs. Their total stock market fund is 2.7x the cost of Fidelity’s. Almost three times as much! Same with the S&P 500 fund. Their S&P 500 fund is double the cost of Schwab’s

Mid cap and small cap? Double Fidelity’s. All right there in the wiki…

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_for_Bogleheads

The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

nalor511 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:00 pm
water2357 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 10:29 pm Sent Vanguard a secure message asking how they will now notify clients about e.g. maturing securities and the other notices they routinely sent via the message center. The popup appeared on login and the Account Overview page showed the "secure message" link on the right side of the page, near the top (but below the headers/menus).

Reviewed the service offered for various account dollar amounts. They used to have different levels of service at more amounts, e.g. $50,000, $250,000, $500,000 now there is no difference in service from $50,000 to $500,000 and not much difference until over $1,000,000. And it also appears that they are leaning to only favoring accounts over $5,000,000.

Is Fidelity like this, i.e. only want customers with over $5,000,000 invested in their offerings? Or does Fidelity provide more access to customer service representatives at lesser amounts? And for Fidelity, do all of the assets have to be invested in Fidelity Funds/ETFs? What about Schwab, how do you qualify for better service from them?

Putting that much money with one financial institution does not seem prudent, unless of course you are Jeff Bezos and $5,000,000 is only lunch money to you.
At fidelity (and Schwab) all customers have 24/7 access via chat, email, phone, and there's physical branches during open hours. If you have more than 100k at Schwab and 1mm at fidelity you'll get a dedicated rep
Fidelity is less than a million. Not sure the exact cut off but this https://www.fidelity.com/what-we-offer/overview says “Clients with $250K or more at Fidelity may be eligible for access to a dedicated financial professional.”
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

My Vanguard account has been empty since early 2020. I briefly moved my VTSAX back to convert to VTI at the end of 2020. I can still log in. I was Voyager Select. I can still click on the New Secure Message link and I can “send a message to the Voyager Select Team” I guess this option will disappear this month at some point. I do not get the pop-up on my IOS device.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:47 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
They don’t have the lowest ERs. Their total stock market fund is 2.7x the cost of Fidelity’s. Almost three times as much! Same with the S&P 500 fund. Their S&P 500 fund is double the cost of Schwab’s

Mid cap and small cap? Double Fidelity’s. All right there in the wiki…

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_for_Bogleheads

The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now.
For a handful of popular funds that Schwab and Fidelity targeted to compete, yes there are cheaper options for those specific index funds. Note that :

As a fund family, Vanguard still has the lowest overall fees across all funds. Most Fidelity funds charge more, a few less, but on average Fido family is more expensive. And if that matters, Schwab isn’t a major fund family at all, they just compete on those popular index and target funds. Schwab has lifestrategy equivalents that are expensive (50bps). Fidelity has many much higher ER funds. Vanguards “expensive” actively managed funds aren’t that expensive. So if one has a simple 3 fund portfolio, all 3 are cheap. If you want anything else not so obvious which is cheapest nor if Schwab would even have equivalents in some cases (Fido will have them but often more costly ER). Not all of us follow 3 fund precisely. And if I want truly simple, lifestrategy, Vanguard wins.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:47 am...The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now...
I agree. We are now at the stage where the strongest claim you can make about Vanguard's broad index funds would be the classic advertising language, "nobody has better index funds than Vanguard." That is, in exactly the same way you could also say "nobody has better index funds than Fidelity" or "nobody has better index funds than iShares."

Even if I step just slightly outside the three-fund portfolio... I currently own Vanguard's broad TIPS fund, VAIPX.

At the time when I consolidated everything at Vanguard, Fidelity's main TIPS fund was FINPX, which (like Vanguard counterpart VIPSX) was not an index fund. It had an expense ratio something like 0.20% higher than Vanguard's. There wasn't any white space between them if you plotted them online on a chart, but the return of VIPSX was very slightly higher.

Because it isn't an index fund, at Vanguard you still need a $50,000 minimum to buy Admiral shares, VAIPX. So we currently have this situation, for a fund that I personally have a major holding in (over half of our fixed income):

VIPSX, Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities fund--Investor shares, $3,000 minimum, 0.20% ER
VAIPX, Vanguard Inflation-Protected Securities fund--Admiral shares, $50,000 minimum, 0.10% ER
FIPDX, Fidelity Inflatino-Protected Bond Index fund, $0.00 minumum, 0.05% ER
TIP, iShares TIPS bond [index] ETF, 1? share minimum, ER 0.19%

And unlike some other funds, where Vanguard has a microscopically higher expense ratio, yet through some magic (securities lending?) has outperformed its rivals anyway, in this particular case it is the Fidelity fund that has outperformed the other. Not by an important amount mind you. But the point remains: it is hard to say more than "Vanguard has really been just about as good, almost."

Source

Image

So these days, we are pretty much down to "I just like the way Vanguard does things," "seem like a straight outfit," "I just like the cut of their jib," "bronze statue of John C. Bogle on their campus." Brand preference. Fan loyalty. That's pretty fragile.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by anon_investor »

Vanguard getting rid of more and more benefits and services is pretty disappointing. I have been with Vanguard for a couple of decades, and have rarely had to contact customer service. But when I do, it has usually been related to rollovers or security transfers. Secure Messaging has been very helpful for this. It sounds like other benefits I would have been interested in in the future have also gone away (dedicated rep, VanguardAdvantage account, etc.). This has me seriously considering shifting to another brokerage st least for a portion of my investments.

Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks for only $100k assets, since Vanguard gives nothing now a days, even if you have $1M, and Fidelity and Schwab don't seem to offer any real perks except for a dedicated rep if you have more assets.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:05 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:47 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
They don’t have the lowest ERs. Their total stock market fund is 2.7x the cost of Fidelity’s. Almost three times as much! Same with the S&P 500 fund. Their S&P 500 fund is double the cost of Schwab’s

Mid cap and small cap? Double Fidelity’s. All right there in the wiki…

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_for_Bogleheads

The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now.
For a handful of popular funds that Schwab and Fidelity targeted to compete, yes there are cheaper options for those specific index funds. Note that :

As a fund family, Vanguard still has the lowest overall fees across all funds. Most Fidelity funds charge more, a few less, but on average Fido family is more expensive. And if that matters, Schwab isn’t a major fund family at all, they just compete on those popular index and target funds. Schwab has lifestrategy equivalents that are expensive (50bps). Fidelity has many much higher ER funds. Vanguards “expensive” actively managed funds aren’t that expensive. So if one has a simple 3 fund portfolio, all 3 are cheap. If you want anything else not so obvious which is cheapest nor if Schwab would even have equivalents in some cases (Fido will have them but often more costly ER). Not all of us follow 3 fund precisely. And if I want truly simple, lifestrategy, Vanguard wins.
No, not everyone follows the three fund precisely, but if that is not the majority of your portfolio- at least on the equity side, then you aren’t really in the vast majority of this site to which COSTS MATTER as Bogle said. If you are arguing Vanguard doesn’t make as much money as Fidelity, you should back that claim up with some data? Otherwise, meh, marketing. The sheer size of the Vanguard funds tells me they can afford secure messaging and 24/7 support.

As to your Life Strategy statement, what are you comparing? Because Fidelity Four In One is cheaper and has outperformed VASGX.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/fund- ... GX%2CFFNOX

Vanguard is still riding the coattails of Bogle’s reputation. But if you look at facts, which is what I choose to do, they are no longer the lowest cost index funds.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:07 am
So these days, we are pretty much down to "I just like the way Vanguard does things," "seem like a straight outfit," "I just like the cut of their jib," "bronze statue of John C. Bogle on their campus." Brand preference. Fan loyalty. That's pretty fragile.
Agree and don’t forget inertia or “I just don’t want to hassle with change.” Also very powerful. Especially as we age.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by beyou »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:37 am
beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:05 am
lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 6:47 am
Bluce wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 2:33 am Maybe this and other complaints are the result of having the lowest ERs out there. Something has to give.

“There is no free lunch.”
They don’t have the lowest ERs. Their total stock market fund is 2.7x the cost of Fidelity’s. Almost three times as much! Same with the S&P 500 fund. Their S&P 500 fund is double the cost of Schwab’s

Mid cap and small cap? Double Fidelity’s. All right there in the wiki…

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/ETFs_for_Bogleheads

The idea that Vanguard is the low cost leader has just been marketing for several years now.
For a handful of popular funds that Schwab and Fidelity targeted to compete, yes there are cheaper options for those specific index funds. Note that :

As a fund family, Vanguard still has the lowest overall fees across all funds. Most Fidelity funds charge more, a few less, but on average Fido family is more expensive. And if that matters, Schwab isn’t a major fund family at all, they just compete on those popular index and target funds. Schwab has lifestrategy equivalents that are expensive (50bps). Fidelity has many much higher ER funds. Vanguards “expensive” actively managed funds aren’t that expensive. So if one has a simple 3 fund portfolio, all 3 are cheap. If you want anything else not so obvious which is cheapest nor if Schwab would even have equivalents in some cases (Fido will have them but often more costly ER). Not all of us follow 3 fund precisely. And if I want truly simple, lifestrategy, Vanguard wins.
No, not everyone follows the three fund precisely, but if that is not the majority of your portfolio- at least on the equity side, then you aren’t really in the vast majority of this site to which COSTS MATTER as Bogle said. If you are arguing Vanguard doesn’t make as much money as Fidelity, you should back that claim up with some data? Otherwise, meh, marketing. The sheer size of the Vanguard funds tells me they can afford secure messaging and 24/7 support.

As to your Life Strategy statement, what are you comparing? Because Fidelity Four In One is cheaper and has outperformed VASGX.

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/fund- ... GX%2CFFNOX

Vanguard is still riding the coattails of Bogle’s reputation. But if you look at facts, which is what I choose to do, they are no longer the lowest cost index funds.
https://www.schwab.com/mutual-funds/mut ... portfolios

Vanguard equivalents are 11-14 bps vs 50 at Schwab.

As to what most do here, I doubt all do BND+VTI+VXUS
Not just lifestrategy, Muni funds too, are cheap at Vanguard. Hard to beat Vanguard for fixed income. And older you get, more fixed income matters. For equity, I am ok with 5 bp er vs fido zero but held hostage at Fido (you can’t transfer the zero funds).

Yeah, customer service is bad and getting worse at Vanguard. Maybe the ER doesn’t matter at all at some point if this is problematic enough. But I absolutely have funds that can’t transfer (admiral fixed income). For taxable not gonna switch funds and pay cap gains to save a few bps on equity funds.

Finally, there is a big difference between low cost and low ER, if there are temporary fee waivers on a fund. Vanguard has not played that game, some others in the industry have. Permanently low fees vs “temporaily” low fees that can easily be modified after your cap gains make it costly to sell.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

lazynovice wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:44 am
nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:07 am
So these days, we are pretty much down to "I just like the way Vanguard does things," "seem like a straight outfit," "I just like the cut of their jib," "bronze statue of John C. Bogle on their campus." Brand preference. Fan loyalty. That's pretty fragile.
Agree and don’t forget inertia or “I just don’t want to hassle with change.” Also very powerful. Especially as we age.
Inertia is fine. Inertia is good. And there are rational reasons. Right now, if I ask my wife "name all the firms we have money at--including banks, brokerages, and insurance companies"--she can. (Three banks--one of them online--one brokerage, three insurance companies). And I have cleaned out everything that used to be in my desk left over from pre-Vanguard days (Merrill Lynch, Dean Witter, Schwab, Fidelity), except that my Vanguard statements are still in a big ring binder I got free from Charles Schwab. I really ought to get around to scribbling over the words "Charles Schwab" with a fat Sharpie. Excuse me a second... OK, I just did. √

If you get too indignant too often, you end up like Dave Barry. He wrote that over the years he has said "I don't do business with them any more" at every store within ten miles, so now he has to drive ten miles to buy anything.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

beyou wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:49 am
https://www.schwab.com/mutual-funds/mut ... portfolios

Vanguard equivalents are 11-14 bps vs 50 at Schwab.

As to what most do here, I doubt all do BND+VTI+VXUS
Not just lifestrategy, Muni funds too, are cheap at Vanguard. Hard to beat Vanguard for fixed income. And older you get, more fixed income matters. For equity, I am ok with 5 bp er vs fido zero but held hostage at Fido (you can’t transfer the zero funds).

Yeah, customer service is bad and getting worse at Vanguard. Maybe the ER doesn’t matter at all at some point if this is problematic enough. But I absolutely have funds that can’t transfer (admiral fixed income). For taxable not gonna switch funds and pay cap gains to save a few bps on equity funds.

Finally, there is a big difference between low cost and low ER, if there are temporary fee waivers on a fund. Vanguard has not played that game, some others in the industry have. Permanently low fees vs “temporaily” low fees that can easily be modified after your cap gains make it costly to sell.
You can own BND, VTI, VXUS, VEU and muni-funds? VTEB at Fidelity and Schwab.

Nisipirus’ post above helps to disprove that yes, you can match or beat Vanguard on TIPS. And I will again link to the wiki-

https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Mutual_ ... Bogleheads

FXNAX -US Bond Index is HALF the cost of VBTLX. So yes, you can absolutely beat Vanguard for fixed income.

Fee waivers?
FXNAX Gross ER equals Net ER that means no fee waivers

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /316146356

FSKAX same story- no fee waivers

https://fundresearch.fidelity.com/mutua ... /315911693

These are not Zero Funds. You can move them at any time.

I wouldn’t pay taxes to switch either but I wouldn’t tell myself I was paying less when I was paying more and I wouldn’t tell myself that the higher cost was temporary when it isn’t. I would tell myself that in the grand scheme of things, these are not big cost differences but I would not let anyone tell me that Vanguard can’t afford to service their accounts because they charge less when they charge more.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Nate79 »

Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by lazynovice »

Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
I think the point is Vanguard the fund manager makes plenty of money to enable them to operate Vanguard the brokerage in some way that remotely resembles Schwab and Fidelity.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Da5id »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:05 am If you get too indignant too often, you end up like Dave Barry. He wrote that over the years he has said "I don't do business with them any more" at every store within ten miles, so now he has to drive ten miles to buy anything.
Yeah. That said, I'm currently somewhat indignant, in that they are taking away something I use without any (to me) compensating improvements. But I guess I'm particularly indignant because I've had a year with LOTS of interactions with Vanguard due to issues with inherited IRAs. I interacted over the phone, via the messaging center, and via direct emails. Vanguard has been helpful and overall quite good to work with throughout that. I have a personal preference for written asynchronous interactions as it removes ambiguity and preserves answers. At work I often preferred emails and DMs for those reasons over phone calls for technical issues too, maybe I'm just not a people person? Vanguard is taking that communications mode away. In the average year where I've had very few or no interactions with Vanguard I'd feel less bothered I guess. Don't know yet if I'll switch because of it, but it is possible and it will certainly make me less inclined to recommend or defend Vanguard (as a brokerage) on the forums or in real life.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by egrets »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks...
I've never had anything but trouble with B of A, starting way back when I had an account at the late lamented Crocker Bank, and B of A did their automatic mortgage payments. One month B of A "ran the tape twice" and deleted the payments twice from all our checking accounts, and refused to undo it since "it will even out next month."
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by nisiprius »

Nate79 wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:11 am Not sure why this is getting off topic discussing Vanguard the fund manager which has not much to do with Vanguard the consumer brokerage company. I buy VTI at Schwab and I get 24/7 customer service and chat support as need for no cost.
In my case, the unexpressed connecting train of thought was, "if I were to leave Vanguard, would I choose to continue using the same Vanguard funds I use now?" And the answer is: nah, probably not. I sure as heck wouldn't pay a $49.95 transaction fee.* In the past there have been hassles trying to hold Admiral shares of index funds elsewhere. I could hold my nose and learn to live with ETFs, maybe, but one of my important current Vanguard funds isn't available as an ETF.

*At Fidelity and at Schwab.
Last edited by nisiprius on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:39 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by anon_investor »

egrets wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks...
I've never had anything but trouble with B of A, starting way back when I had an account at the late lamented Crocker Bank, and B of A did their automatic mortgage payments. One month B of A "ran the tape twice" and deleted the payments twice from all our checking accounts, and refused to undo it since "it will even out next month."
Troubling, how long ago was this? So it was both checking and mortgage with BoA?
Last edited by anon_investor on Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Bluce »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Vanguard getting rid of more and more benefits and services is pretty disappointing. I have been with Vanguard for a couple of decades, and have rarely had to contact customer service. But when I do, it has usually been related to rollovers or security transfers. Secure Messaging has been very helpful for this. It sounds like other benefits I would have been interested in in the future have also gone away (dedicated rep, VanguardAdvantage account, etc.). This has me seriously considering shifting to another brokerage st least for a portion of my investments.

Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks for only $100k assets, since Vanguard gives nothing now a days, even if you have $1M, and Fidelity and Schwab don't seem to offer any real perks except for a dedicated rep if you have more assets.
I've been with Schwab since 1997; you will not regret moving there. I had some assets for a couple of years at VG (8-10 years ago) and was not impressed with them -- they are apparently worse now.

I moved everything back to Schwab. VG has some good funds, and I still have Wellesley and one VG ETF within Schwab.
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by LadyGeek »

The one with the best tools wins. See: Fidelity Total Market in taxable - FZROX (ZERO) vs. FSKAX (Total Market) SmackDown

(I haven't made a decision on moving to Fidelity yet, but wanted to make that post.)
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Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by runninginvestor »

Didn't receive the pop-up again this morning. I'll check again tomorrow.

With or without the message center, I'm hesitant to move our accounts away from VG because:

1. We are still in accumulation phase, for the next 25-30 years. As others have mentioned, there's not much contact needed when you're just depositing money. And a lot can change within that timeframe with any brokerage.

2. Fixed income options are nice if you sway from total bond market. We've been using VSGDX/VTSAX as a savings account. Haven't been able to find a find similar to VSGDX elsewhere (open to suggestions).

3. No account transfer fee, whereas Schwab (where we likely would go) does charge that fee if we ever stopped liking their service. Yes it's small in the scheme of things.

If there's ever a hint of removing the tax free conversion to ETFs, or adding an outbound account transfer fee that'll likely be the tipping point.
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galawdawg
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Location: Georgia

Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by galawdawg »

anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:30 am
egrets wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 9:26 am
anon_investor wrote: Sun Aug 01, 2021 8:33 am Anyone thinking of leaving Vanguard (or at least transferring out a large chunk) considering Merrill Edge? I have been reading the thread on Merrill Edge/Bank of America Platinum Honors tier Preferred Rewards, which are some significant perks...
I've never had anything but trouble with B of A, starting way back when I had an account at the late lamented Crocker Bank, and B of A did their automatic mortgage payments. One month B of A "ran the tape twice" and deleted the payments twice from all our checking accounts, and refused to undo it since "it will even out next month."
Troubling, how long ago was this? So it was both checking and mortgage with BoA?
I've got an elderly relative who had been with BOA since 1977. He also had investments at Merrill Edge. (Although several of his contemporaries who were also long-term customers but left BOA with complaints about their service and being treated poorly had been suggesting for a few years that he pick another bank). He had several minor issues with them over the past several years but nothing major (like egrets experienced) so he didn't make any changes.

He sold his home a few months ago and I took him by the branch to deposit the closing proceeds (he insisted he didn't want them wired, he wanted a check in hand) which were written on a well-known local law firm's escrow account. Again, he wanted to deposit the check...the whole thing. No withdrawals, no cash back. It took nearly thirty minutes! The drive-through was closed for some reason. So we go inside. First he had to "check-in" with a bank employee holding a tablet standing near the door and "state his business". Then he was directed to another portion of the lobby where he had to "check-in" with a uniformed security guard who looked at his deposit slip and check. Then he was directed to another section of the branch to wait in line while the single teller working carried on a lengthy personal conversation with the customer ahead of us. When he finally got to the teller, she examined the check like it was from Mars and got the manager, who also examined the check, asked a few questions (which were frankly none of her business) and finally authorized the teller to process the deposit. And of course, they placed a seven (7) business day hold on the deposit, making me question why the scrutiny of this deposit by a customer of that bank (and branch) of nearly forty-five years. I could understand it if it was a substantial withdrawal, but a simple "no cash back" deposit?? Ridiculous. :annoyed

My relative is a 2x stroke victim and uses a walker. All that time standing and waiting (they didn't have any chairs anywhere nearby except back in the lobby, which was a different section of the branch) and his annoyance at how he was generally treated and how they handled the deposit led him to decide to close all of his accounts with BOA and Merrill Edge. Now he is at Schwab and very, very pleased.

Personally, DW and I considered Merrill Edge/BOA when we decided to leave Vanguard a few years ago. We made an appointment at the nearest Merrill Edge office and as we live in a rural part of Georgia, had to drive some distance to meet with the advisor (I had quite a few questions and wanted to see how they handled them and see what kind of sales pitches, if any, we might expect if we moved our investments there). We arrived a few minutes early and were asked to have a seat. And we sat...and we sat. As it turns out, the Merrill representative "forgot" about our appointment which we only learned after we had already waited fifteen minutes past our appointment time! The same person who greeted us when we arrived came out to say "sorry, he went to lunch but I just reached him and he said he'd be back in about thirty minutes, can you come back?" :o My reply: "Sorry, no. If this is how you seek to earn the business of a prospective client with a million dollar plus portfolio, I can't imagine the service we'd get if we actually invested with you. Have a nice day. Goodbye." And we left. Never received so much as a call or email from anyone apologizing for our inconvenience.

Obviously, experiences of others may vary widely. Good luck in whatever you decide to do!
Actin
Posts: 259
Joined: Wed May 16, 2018 8:40 pm

Re: VG Removing Message Center [Vanguard]

Post by Actin »

You should all know by now that Vanguard customer support is straight trash and it will only get worse as time goes on.

Their new management is pushing them more towards active management. Customer support is an easy way to cut costs and it also makes the active funds more appealing.

This is just me talking out of my butt, but I have a feeling the company keeps getting more and more bloated.

Vanguard doesn't even have a functional mobile app and their website is something you'd expect in 2005
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