date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

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asset_chaos
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date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.

When you transition your account into a Vanguard Brokerage Account, your current investments will move into this new account platform. There are no fees or tax consequences in completing this transition. Most account options and services will carry over, and you'll have uninterrupted access to historical information such as your transaction history, cost basis, statements, and tax forms. In addition, your brokerage account will have the same account number. However, you may need to reestablish some services, such as direct deposit, automatic money movement, and checkwriting, if you still want them.
Importantly and strangely the changeover doesn't seem to apply to everything (bold original),
What happens if I don't transition my account?

If you don't take action to transition by July 11, 2021:

Vanguard Brokerage Services® will transition your brokerage account automatically.

However, we won't move your Vanguard fund investments, including your former settlement fund, into your Vanguard Brokerage Account. In other words, you'll have 2 accounts—your original account, which will continue to hold your Vanguard fund positions, and a new Vanguard Brokerage Account, which will hold your brokerage investments.

The assets in your former settlement fund will remain invested in that fund.

You can move assets from your former settlement fund into your new settlement fund. If you wish to buy securities in your Vanguard Brokerage Account, you will have to add money to your new settlement fund.
It appears that Vanguard mutual funds will not be forceably converted at this time. I wonder what that will mean in practice. They also say, "Most account options and services will carry over". I wonder if some options, like dividend direction, have been implemented, or if they are still out of the group of "most". It's time for a chat with the Vanguard reps to get a little more detail and clarity; although, I suspect there's nothing new to learn, except for the fact that a date has been set.
Regards, | | Guy
stan1
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by stan1 »

I wonder if they will let you add a new fund in the legacy account (after 11 July) or if that new fund would have to be added in the brokerage account? I'm assuming they will let you add money to the funds in the legacy account but if they wanted to play hardball they could prohibit that and force new contributions into the brokerage account I guess?
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by UpperNwGuy »

I got an email from Vanguard about three hours ago telling me that "making smart brokerage transactions just got even easier." I clicked on the link, and this is what came up:

https://investornews.vanguard/making-sm ... en-easier/

After reading it, I can't figure out what it really means.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by dkarst »

asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.

What happens if I don't transition my account?

If you don't take action to transition by July 11, 2021:

Vanguard Brokerage Services® will transition your brokerage account automatically.[/b]

However, we won't move your Vanguard fund investments..., i.
It appears that Vanguard mutual funds will not be forceably converted at this time. I wonder what that will mean in practice. They also say, "Most account options and services will carry over". I wonder if some options, like dividend direction, have been implemented, or if they are still out of the group of "most". It's time for a chat with the Vanguard reps to get a little more detail and clarity; although, I suspect there's nothing new to learn, except for the fact that a date has been set.
I tried to underscore sections I don't understand in this ... what "legacy brokerage platform", I don't have one of those I have a legacy mutual fund platform. Maybe there is an old legacy brokerage platform that is being referred to here. Otherwise, pretty loose wording and it appears they can't move funds, they can just set up new brokerage platform for you?
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

The email from Vanguard urging transition says, "Action required: Transition your accounts today", and "Thank you for your immediate attention to this important matter." So I logged on to my account to see what they had set up. I may be getting dumber as I age, but for the life of me I can't find anything on the overview or account holdings pages that resembles a button that says push here to transition brokerage account. There wasn't even a banner when I logged in repeating the email's invocation to act urgently to transition.

Ah well, the email came 6 or 7 hours ago; maybe everyone at Vanguard took off early for the weekend and forgot. As the only action in a brokerage account I anticipate is dividend payments at the end of June, perhaps I'll just let the July 11 deadline pass and let Vanguard make whatever brokerage transition they're going to make anyway.
Regards, | | Guy
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iceport
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by iceport »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:07 pm I got an email from Vanguard about three hours ago telling me that "making smart brokerage transactions just got even easier." I clicked on the link, and this is what came up:

https://investornews.vanguard/making-sm ... en-easier/

After reading it, I can't figure out what it really means.
I just traded in an account using the new VBS platform last week, and it looked a lot like the new Portfolio Watch layout: cleaner look, bigger font, maybe a bit easier navigation between entries and steps (or maybe just different navigation, to accommodate trading on small devices) compared to the older layout.

Maybe that's what they mean? Basically a revamped user interface?

I don't think I've received a deadline yet on transitioning. I resigned myself to the necessity of it, but I was hoping to wait until mid-January 2022 to avoid receiving two sets of 1099s instead of 1.
Last edited by iceport on Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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asset_chaos
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

dkarst wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:25 pm
asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.

What happens if I don't transition my account?

If you don't take action to transition by July 11, 2021:

Vanguard Brokerage Services® will transition your brokerage account automatically.[/b]

However, we won't move your Vanguard fund investments..., i.
It appears that Vanguard mutual funds will not be forceably converted at this time. I wonder what that will mean in practice. They also say, "Most account options and services will carry over". I wonder if some options, like dividend direction, have been implemented, or if they are still out of the group of "most". It's time for a chat with the Vanguard reps to get a little more detail and clarity; although, I suspect there's nothing new to learn, except for the fact that a date has been set.
I tried to underscore sections I don't understand in this ... what "legacy brokerage platform", I don't have one of those I have a legacy mutual fund platform. Maybe there is an old legacy brokerage platform that is being referred to here. Otherwise, pretty loose wording and it appears they can't move funds, they can just set up new brokerage platform for you?
Yes, I don't know. I opened a brokerage account in 2005 or 2006 in order to recieve and sell inherited securities. At that time there was a clear distinction between VBS, Vanguard Brokerage Services, and Vanguard mutual fund accounts. Yes, definitely time on Monday to call the flagship reps and ask for clarification.
Regards, | | Guy
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jeffyscott »

asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:33 pm
dkarst wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 9:25 pm
asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.

What happens if I don't transition my account?

If you don't take action to transition by July 11, 2021:

Vanguard Brokerage Services® will transition your brokerage account automatically.[/b]

However, we won't move your Vanguard fund investments..., i.
It appears that Vanguard mutual funds will not be forceably converted at this time. I wonder what that will mean in practice. They also say, "Most account options and services will carry over". I wonder if some options, like dividend direction, have been implemented, or if they are still out of the group of "most". It's time for a chat with the Vanguard reps to get a little more detail and clarity; although, I suspect there's nothing new to learn, except for the fact that a date has been set.
I tried to underscore sections I don't understand in this ... what "legacy brokerage platform", I don't have one of those I have a legacy mutual fund platform. Maybe there is an old legacy brokerage platform that is being referred to here. Otherwise, pretty loose wording and it appears they can't move funds, they can just set up new brokerage platform for you?
Yes, I don't know. I opened a brokerage account in 2005 or 2006 in order to recieve and sell inherited securities. At that time there was a clear distinction between VBS, Vanguard Brokerage Services, and Vanguard mutual fund accounts. Yes, definitely time on Monday to call the flagship reps and ask for clarification.
This appears to have nothing to do with mutual fund only accounts. As you say they used to keep things separate. So this seems to be about those old brokerage accounts.

If you don't have a brokerage account, I don't think Vanguard can open one for you, without your permission.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

IIRC, our "old brokerage" at Vanguard was thru Pershing. Honestly, I though that was long gone already.

I was a very happy camper going to the Vanguard brokerage platform. Cut the number of our accounts in half.

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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jebmke »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 am IIRC, our "old brokerage" at Vanguard was thru Pershing. Honestly, I though that was long gone already.

I was a very happy camper going to the Vanguard brokerage platform. Cut the number of our accounts in half.

Broken Man 1999
I thought it was too. I have no clue but I think my brokerage accounts are already on the "new" platform for some time now. It could be that the system was rolled out over time to the client base.

I'll have to log in and check my messages; they don't send emails to me (at my request).

edit: checked, no messages. I think I'm already on the new platform.
Don't trust me, look it up. https://www.irs.gov/forms-instructions-and-publications
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jeffyscott »

jebmke wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:42 am
Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 am IIRC, our "old brokerage" at Vanguard was thru Pershing. Honestly, I though that was long gone already.

I was a very happy camper going to the Vanguard brokerage platform. Cut the number of our accounts in half.

Broken Man 1999
I thought it was too. I have no clue but I think my brokerage accounts are already on the "new" platform for some time now. It could be that the system was rolled out over time to the client base.

I'll have to log in and check my messages; they don't send emails to me (at my request).

edit: checked, no messages. I think I'm already on the new platform.
Yeah, I was surprised to learn they still exist too. Until now, I had thought all the pressure to "transition your account" was directed only at those who have mutual fund only accounts with no brokerage account connected to it.

But a search finds some recent updates (Dec. 2020), one of them says:
This Vanguard Brokerage Account Agreement (Agreement) is for Accounts considered “Legacy” accounts, which are those that currently use a Sweep Program option held by the Vanguard funds’ transfer agent
https://personal.vanguard.com/pdf/v718.pdf

Another document indicates that under the old set-up it takes at least 4 days to move money between the brokerage account and the mutual fund account. I'm surprised that some people in that situation have apparently chosen to leave it as is. I have no interest in changing one account we have that is mutal funds only to a brokerage account, but if I already had a convolutedly connected brokerage account like that, I would have changed at the first opportunity.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by rrt »

One of those who left our taxable accounts as is for one reason. Was told by VG rep several years ago if you convert to brokerage they can no longer automatically withhold taxes from the account when you take distributions or pull out funds.

We are retired and we do most of our financials in the fourth quarter but do like having Div's and Cap Gains swept into my checking account for spending purposes. This way, no quarterly payments due and with Roth conversions every year we're gonna pay the taxes anyway.

All retirement accounts we transitioned.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

I got a response from Vanguard (part quoted below), but it's unsatisfactory. I think they answered the wrong question; I think they thought the question was about consolidating mutual fund only accounts into the new brokerage accounts, as the response below says, instead of, as the email they sent me says, "we won't move your Vanguard fund investments ... into your Vanguard Brokerage Account" I wrote back saying I'm just as confused as ever because they've told me contradictory things.
Dear <asset_chaos>:

Thank you for taking the time to email us about our brokerage account
transition process.

While you do already have brokerage accounts with us, you also own Vanguard
mutual fund only accounts.

The upgrade process will allow you to consolidate those mutual fund only
accounts into brokerage accounts.

Please note, because automatic exchange plans (AEPs) are not eligible for
use with a brokerage account, you will not be able to upgrade your
individual account or Inherited IRA until the associated AEPs are removed.

Brokerage accounts also do not support required minimum distributions
(RMDs) from the 1st through the 4th or 26th through the 31st of the month.
Regards, | | Guy
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jeffyscott »

Not sure what you asked, but I think that you're "allowed", but not required, to consolidate your mutual funds into the new brokerage account. But in the case of the legacy brokerage account, that part will be transitioned to a new brokerage account by vanguard.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by celia »

Hmmm, I find this curious. We have over a dozen accounts, for various reasons, mainly because of moving inherited assets. We have a mix of mutual fund only accounts and the "upgraded" brokerage accounts on another platform. A year ago, you could just click on an "upgrade" symbol next to the mutual fund accounts and it would convert the account automatically that night to a new brokerage account.

A few days ago, I was looking for that symbol as I now want some ETFs in what is currently a mutual fund account. The old symbol is not available, but now there is a new one that takes you to "forms" so you can fill out a form all over again. I'm sort of tired of filling out forms and messaged them to see if they could upgrade my account "xxxxx" to brokerage automatically. They responded that a form is now required, so I'm thinking if I want to spend half an hour on this.

Now that I see this thread, I probably want to wait a month so my account doesn't get mixed in with these. I have also seen the new brokerage user interface on other accounts, and find it huge and awkward (to me). I will wait and see for now, but at least this helps me understand what is happening behind the scenes.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jeffyscott »

celia wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:27 pm Hmmm, I find this curious. We have over a dozen accounts, for various reasons, mainly because of moving inherited assets. We have a mix of mutual fund only accounts and the "upgraded" brokerage accounts on another platform. A year ago, you could just click on an "upgrade" symbol next to the mutual fund accounts and it would convert the account automatically that night to a new brokerage account.

A few days ago, I was looking for that symbol as I now want some ETFs in what is currently a mutual fund account. The old symbol is not available, but now there is a new one that takes you to "forms" so you can fill out a form all over again. I'm sort of tired of filling out forms and messaged them to see if they could upgrade my account "xxxxx" to brokerage automatically. They responded that a form is now required, so I'm thinking if I want to spend half an hour on this.

Now that I see this thread, I probably want to wait a month so my account doesn't get mixed in with these. I have also seen the new brokerage user interface on other accounts, and find it huge and awkward (to me). I will wait and see for now, but at least this helps me understand what is happening behind the scenes.
Do you mean an actual paper form?

I am still seeing a pop-up, plus the same large message is on the screen behind the pop-up and then the account also has a small text link "Transition this account" that would go to a web page with address that ends with: transition-to-vba-webapp. That seems to indicate it could be transitioned online. This is a stand-alone mutual fund only account, not connected to a legacy brokerage account, maybe that's the differece?
Here's the pop-up:
Image
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beyou
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by beyou »

If you have a very old brokerage account, it may be from back when Vanguard partnered with Pershing. Pershing runs runs the back office for many smaller brokers (Vanguard was small/new to BROKERAGE years ago when they exclusively had fund-only accounts).

As you had already agreed to a brokerage account, Vanguard does not legally need your permission to move from Pershing to a new system (clearing firm).

OTOH, for those on the fund-only platform, they do need your signature and new account application to open a brokerage acct regardless old or new clearing firm/systems.

I still get the vague popups for my fund-only accounts that sometime features may be removed, with no specific dates. I have no older Pershing accounts and have not received such a date for auto conversion.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by mkc »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sat Jun 12, 2021 10:34 am IIRC, our "old brokerage" at Vanguard was thru Pershing. Honestly, I though that was long gone already.
Ours as well, but it changed over from Pershing to VBS several years ago. We still have our legacy mf accounts at VG.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by TropikThunder »

celia wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:27 pm A year ago, you could just click on an "upgrade" symbol next to the mutual fund accounts and it would convert the account automatically that night to a new brokerage account.

A few days ago, I was looking for that symbol as I now want some ETFs in what is currently a mutual fund account. The old symbol is not available, but now there is a new one that takes you to "forms" so you can fill out a form all over again.
Maybe they got tired of hearing people complain about the button.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

The rep has sent further clarification below, confirming that, despite the contradictory language, this is part of the general platform "upgrade" to brokerage only. Apparently at least one of my brokerage accounts is already on the new platform.

When I look at my accounts, the upgrade button is only associated with some accounts. I think this is due to the language in Vanguard's first reply,
Please note, because automatic exchange plans (AEPs) are not eligible for
use with a brokerage account, you will not be able to upgrade your
individual account or Inherited IRA until the associated AEPs are removed.
Both those accounts automatically put dividends from some funds into other funds.

Vanguard's 2nd response,
Dear <asset_chaos>:

I apologize if the language utilized to describe the transition process has
any contradictory elements to it, but I can assure you that the information
I provided is how the process does function.

When you upgrade your accounts, you're moving your eligible mutual fund
only accounts to our brokerage platform, into an account able to hold
Vanguard mutual funds and ETFs as well as individual stocks, bonds,
certificates of deposit (CDs), and mutual funds and ETFs from other
companies.

Your brokerage account # is an example of an account already on this
trading platform.
I'm still unsatisfied with the explanation of what's happening on July 11, and the series of specific questions I asked were ignored, but it's clear that Vanguard is doing some kind of account transition by July 11. I think I will take any cash out of the brokerage settlement fund and print a copy of my account pages before the July 11 deadline, and just wait and see what happens.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by SmileyFace »

The emails and popups to convert my mutual fund platform seems to be on hiatus for a while (at least for me). They were saying sometime in 2019, then 2020, then 2021, then 2022. Maybe similar to the old brokerage platform, which they obviously put off shutting down for many more years than originally intended, the mutual fund platform will be pushed off as well - my bet is until 2035. :)
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by sport »

TropikThunder wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 7:02 pm
celia wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:27 pm A year ago, you could just click on an "upgrade" symbol next to the mutual fund accounts and it would convert the account automatically that night to a new brokerage account.

A few days ago, I was looking for that symbol as I now want some ETFs in what is currently a mutual fund account. The old symbol is not available, but now there is a new one that takes you to "forms" so you can fill out a form all over again.
Maybe they got tired of hearing people complain about the button.
I still have an "upgrade" button on my accounts.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by beyou »

SmileyFace wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 8:14 pm The emails and popups to convert my mutual fund platform seems to be on hiatus for a while (at least for me). They were saying sometime in 2019, then 2020, then 2021, then 2022. Maybe similar to the old brokerage platform, which they obviously put off shutting down for many more years than originally intended, the mutual fund platform will be pushed off as well - my bet is until 2035. :)
If we are betting, I say NEVER EVER.
People have argued this point with me but it is a plain and simple fact that the prospectus of a fund describes that you can buy/sell shares of the fund directly from/to the fund (open end funds, not ETFs). This can be done without a brokerage account. They MUST provide a way to transact under the legal terms of the fund, and the terms are very common in the industry, not some Vanguard outlier. I am not sure if they can get board approval to change this legally, meaning not sure if legally they can drop this at all, and even if they can, they must vote to get rid of this provision of the prospectus and how the fund operates. If they legally drop the ability to directly service shareholders without a broker, then they will have to immediately redeem your shares and return cash to you, causing them to lose assets and you to have unexpected realized gains. Alternatively they can keep the provision of direct servicing (without broker) and then decide if it's worthwhile to convert all our fund-only online transactions to PHONE CALLS.

Not arguing if the transition from fund-only to brokerage is a good or bad thing, but there are logistics that make it very difficult to accomplish.
OTOH, having 2 brokerage platforms (legacy Pershing and internal Vanguard system) is a waste of resources and not a legal issue.
I simply can't believe how long they let that go on, what a waste !
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by jeffyscott »

beyou wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:43 pmNot arguing if the transition from fund-only to brokerage is a good or bad thing, but there are logistics that make it very difficult to accomplish.
OTOH, having 2 brokerage platforms (legacy Pershing and internal Vanguard system) is a waste of resources and not a legal issue.
I simply can't believe how long they let that go on, what a waste !
Yes, this was surprising and bizarre news to me. I can't imagine why did they not just switch everyone with a brokerage account over years ago.

I kinda feel like Vanguard has been, perhaps intentionally, muddying things. Up until this discussion, I had thought all their two platform talk was only about folks with mutual fund only accounts and no associated brokerage account at all. Now we find out it was (maybe) really all about the two brokerage platforms.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by beyou »

jeffyscott wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 3:23 pm
beyou wrote: Fri Jun 18, 2021 12:43 pmNot arguing if the transition from fund-only to brokerage is a good or bad thing, but there are logistics that make it very difficult to accomplish.
OTOH, having 2 brokerage platforms (legacy Pershing and internal Vanguard system) is a waste of resources and not a legal issue.
I simply can't believe how long they let that go on, what a waste !
Yes, this was surprising and bizarre news to me. I can't imagine why did they not just switch everyone with a brokerage account over years ago.

I kinda feel like Vanguard has been, perhaps intentionally, muddying things. Up until this discussion, I had thought all their two platform talk was only about folks with mutual fund only accounts and no associated brokerage account at all. Now we find out it was (maybe) really all about the two brokerage platforms.
I think it is both. I still have fund-only accts, as do many, and get the frequent prompts to transition. If I actually click to do so it does try to convert me to brokerage, but I am stopped due to an answer to a question on the brokerage application and asked to call. Oh yeah, I am not calling them to wait on hold for their benefit, unless they agree to pay me my customary hourly rate during business hours (or I can call them on the weekend when I am not working ….ha ha). I know many transitioned who never had Pershing.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

As the July 11 deadline passed with me taking no action, I logged on after close of markets 12 July to see if anything had happened. I'm unable to discern any difference in my accounts---brokerage or otherwise---or the way they're grouped, titled, or displayed on the webpage. Maybe they're allowing several days grace before automatically transitioning, maybe it's all behind the scenes and there was never going to be outward manifestation of difference, or maybe something will happen overnight after the gnomes of valley forge finish lugging the tape decks around. But nothing appears to have happened yet.
Regards, | | Guy
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by lazynovice »

asset_chaos wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:01 pm As the July 11 deadline passed with me taking no action, I logged on after close of markets 12 July to see if anything had happened. I'm unable to discern any difference in my accounts---brokerage or otherwise---or the way they're grouped, titled, or displayed on the webpage. Maybe they're allowing several days grace before automatically transitioning, maybe it's all behind the scenes and there was never going to be outward manifestation of difference, or maybe something will happen overnight after the gnomes of valley forge finish lugging the tape decks around. But nothing appears to have happened yet.
There is another thread where a duplicate RMD was blamed on transitioning from the old system. That is all I have seen so far.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by sycamore »

lazynovice wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:17 pm
asset_chaos wrote: Mon Jul 12, 2021 7:01 pm As the July 11 deadline passed with me taking no action, I logged on after close of markets 12 July to see if anything had happened. I'm unable to discern any difference in my accounts---brokerage or otherwise---or the way they're grouped, titled, or displayed on the webpage. Maybe they're allowing several days grace before automatically transitioning, maybe it's all behind the scenes and there was never going to be outward manifestation of difference, or maybe something will happen overnight after the gnomes of valley forge finish lugging the tape decks around. But nothing appears to have happened yet.
There is another thread where a duplicate RMD was blamed on transitioning from the old system. That is all I have seen so far.
FWIWI, in that other thread, the OP wrote:
Rep's explanation was that the 2nd RMD "carried over from the old data system".
Doesn't seem quite clear that "old data system" equates to "legacy brokerage platform" but it's certainly possible. Your guess is as good as mine ;)
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Colorado14 »

I have tried to transition my account a couple of times. Each time, I answer the transition questions, then receive a generic error message. So I anticipate my account will be transitioned when Vgrd forces that to occur, since I'm unable to transition it via the website link.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by CloveLeaf »

I still have my mutual fund account. Nothing seems to have happened. I wasn't even aware of this "deadline" until today
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

CloveLeaf wrote: Thu Jul 15, 2021 9:19 pm I still have my mutual fund account. Nothing seems to have happened. I wasn't even aware of this "deadline" until today
This wasn't about the mutual fund platform, but the old brokerage platform.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

Maybe July 11 was a "soft" cut-off because I got the email below today with a new, ambiguous date, "as soon as August". Once again I plan to do nothing except save a copy of my account page on 31 July.
One or more of your accounts is changing

Dear Vanguard Client,

After considering the costs of maintaining two brokerage account platforms, Vanguard Brokerage Services® will retire the legacy brokerage platform that currently holds your brokerage account. As a result, we're moving all brokerage accounts to our new Vanguard Brokerage Account platform effective as soon as August 2021, but no later than the end of this year.
Again to emphasize, this legacy brokerage account business is different from the forced conversion of mutual fund accounts to brokerage. They at least allude to the two different issues by ending the email with
Can I move my Vanguard funds into my new account?

Yes, you can now hold Vanguard funds in your Vanguard Brokerage Account. We encourage you to move all funds you now hold into your new account. This will help avoid maintaining records, statements, tax forms, and other documentation for multiple accounts. To move your Vanguard funds into your Vanguard Brokerage Account, please log in to your account to take action.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by criticalmass »

asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.
I'm still wondering if they mean the legacy mutual fund platform. For years I (and many others) have had both the old mutual fund platform and the separate brokerage platform that used Pershing once upon a time for clearing, before Vanguard was able to build their in house clearing system. My Vanguard mutual funds are on the mutual fund platform, and ETFs, securities, and my non-Vanguard funds are on the brokerage platform. Plus another set for IRA, etc.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Wannaretireearly »

I have resisted transitioning my web accounts.
I am so frustrated with the new app. So many issues. Anyone else concur? I loved the old (functional) app.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by nisiprius »

criticalmass wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:48 pm
asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.
I'm still wondering if they mean the legacy mutual fund platform. For years I (and many others) have had both the old mutual fund platform and the separate brokerage platform that used Pershing once upon a time for clearing, before Vanguard was able to build their in house clearing system. My Vanguard mutual funds are on the mutual fund platform, and ETFs, securities, and my non-Vanguard funds are on the brokerage platform. Plus another set for IRA, etc.
Yes, I wonder the same thing. Approximate history:

1) Vanguard mutual fund accounts.

2) Vanguard mutual fund accounts + "Vanguard Brokerage Services," provided by Pershing.

3) Vanguard mutual fund accounts + ("real") Vanguard Brokerage Services, operated by Vanguard itself.

In steps 2 and 3, you could hold anything but Vanguard mutual funds in the brokerage account--but you could not hold Vanguard mutual funds in that account. They were separate worlds, sharing only the settlement account.

4) Vanguard mutual fund accounts + ("new platform" or "upgraded") Vanguard Brokerage services.

With step 4, it became possible to hold Vanguard mutual funds within a Vanguard Brokerage Services account.

5) With increasing urgency and pressure, Vanguard offers/requests/insists on customers moving their mutual funds into their Brokerage Services account.

I don't remember that there was anything optional about the transition from step 2 to step 3. I don't think you had the option of retaining Pershing's services, nor was there any reason I can imagine that anyone would have wanted to. Your account kept all the same account numbers and features, it's just that behind the scenes the actions were being performed by Vanguard rather than Pershing.

So I would be surprised if anyone still had any Pershing-managed "Vanguard Brokerage Services" accounts.

In other words, the situation and language Vanguard has been using is so confusing that perhaps even people at Vanguard are confused by it.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by mkc »

Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:55 pm I have resisted transitioning my web accounts.
I am so frustrated with the new app. So many issues. Anyone else concur? I loved the old (functional) app.
This topic is regarding the legacy (Pershing, I think) brokerage platform, not the mutual fund platform.

Is that the one you are asking about (brokerage)? TBH, ours transitioned years ago and I don't recall a difference.

Again, NOT talking about the MF to brokerage transition, which is not the subject of this topic.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by criticalmass »

mkc wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:48 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:55 pm I have resisted transitioning my web accounts.
I am so frustrated with the new app. So many issues. Anyone else concur? I loved the old (functional) app.
This topic is regarding the legacy (Pershing, I think) brokerage platform, not the mutual fund platform.

Is that the one you are asking about (brokerage)? TBH, ours transitioned years ago and I don't recall a difference.

Again, NOT talking about the MF to brokerage transition, which is not the subject of this topic.
How does one know what brokerage platform they have?
I thought Pershing was just clearing entity for trades, but the webpage platform provider.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by sycamore »

criticalmass wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 10:18 pm
mkc wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:48 pm
Wannaretireearly wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:55 pm I have resisted transitioning my web accounts.
I am so frustrated with the new app. So many issues. Anyone else concur? I loved the old (functional) app.
This topic is regarding the legacy (Pershing, I think) brokerage platform, not the mutual fund platform.

Is that the one you are asking about (brokerage)? TBH, ours transitioned years ago and I don't recall a difference.

Again, NOT talking about the MF to brokerage transition, which is not the subject of this topic.
How does one know what brokerage platform they have?
I thought Pershing was just clearing entity for trades, but the webpage platform provider.
One way is to look at your 1099 tax form, on the top right.

When I was last on the Pershing platform, (over 10 years ago):
Payer Information: PERSHING, LLC
Federal Identification Number: 13-2741729
From my 2020 1099:
PAYER: Vanguard Marketing Corporation
PAYER'S Federal Identification Number: 23-2019846
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

criticalmass wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 7:48 pm
asset_chaos wrote: Fri Jun 11, 2021 8:35 pm I have an email today
Dear Vanguard Client,

We'd like to inform you that Vanguard is retiring its legacy brokerage platform by the end of 2021.
I'm still wondering if they mean the legacy mutual fund platform.
I believe they did a better job in their July email than in the June email of making it clear that this communication is about a legacy brokerage platform. I've bold-ed a few of the key phrases from the July email (posted above), which I think makes it clear:
After considering the costs of maintaining two brokerage account platforms, Vanguard Brokerage Services® will retire the legacy brokerage platform that currently holds your brokerage account. As a result, we're moving all brokerage accounts to our new Vanguard Brokerage Account platform effective as soon as August 2021, but no later than the end of this year.
Like many people, I thought Pershing had left the scene years ago and am surprised consolidating two brokerage platforms into one hadn't happened years ago.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

sycamore wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 6:49 am One way is to look at your 1099 tax form, on the top right.

When I was last on the Pershing platform, (over 10 years ago):
Payer Information: PERSHING, LLC
Federal Identification Number: 13-2741729
From my 2020 1099:
PAYER: Vanguard Marketing Corporation
PAYER'S Federal Identification Number: 23-2019846
This confuses me more than ever. I get one 1099 consolidated brokerage statement. And the one for 2020 says
PAYER:
Vanguard Marketing Corporation
P.O. Box 982901
El Paso, TX 79998-2901
PAYER'S TIN: 23-2019846
From that it appears I'm already on the new brokerage platform. What am I being consolidated from or to?

Now I'm curious. Where did Pershing leave off? Brokerage 1099 for 2010, still Vanguard; only change is the address for Vanguard Marketing Corp was in Valley Forge PA. There it is. In 2009 I had two brokerage 1099s, one from Vanguard and one from Pershing. And prior to 2009, only the one brokerage 1099 from Pershing.

It looks like that around 2009 I was already transitioned from the old Pershing brokerage platform to the new Vanguard brokerage platform. Now I'm confused as to why Vanguard sends me these notices. Are there a few vestigal electrons of Pershing clinging to my account? Is this a transition to an even newer Vanguard brokerage platform? I'd say "enquiring minds want to know", but I don't. This kind of confusion is why I'm not motivated to act by notices like this.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

I think the switch from Pershing LLC as the clearing agent to Vanguard self-clearing is being conflated with two different formats of brokerage accounts at Vanguard.

I found an E-Mail from December 31, 2009 that states the below:

"You may receive tax forms for the 2009 tax year from both Pershing LLC and Vanguard Brokerage Services®. In general, Pershing will send tax forms for reportable activity that occurred from January 1, 2009, through May 23, 2009. Vanguard Brokerage, which assumed clearing agent responsibilities from Pershing, will send separate forms for reportable activity that took place after May 23, 2009. The tax forms you receive from Pershing may reflect activity that took place after May 23, 2009, such as dividends or interest or corporate actions for trades that cleared prior to the conversion."

Thus, any association with Pershing has been closed out for over a decade. However, those accounts were still traditional brokerage accounts. Several years ago, Vanguard developed a new format brokerage account which allowed holding of Vanguard and other mutual funds within the same structure. That led some people to consolidate to a single account, which is the company-preferred arrangement. If you had an old format brokerage account AND a mutual fund-only account with the same registration, these were merged into a single new-format brokerage account. If you chose to keep them separate AND never acted on any conversions, then you still have an old-format brokerage account (no relationship to Pershing since 2009). I guess they eventually decided it would be easier to force conversion of those already agreeable to a brokerage account first, before tackling the long-alluded retirement of the mutual fund-only platform. Bogleheads can count many resistors to the latter. Fewer for the former.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by sycamore »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:19 pm I think the switch from Pershing LLC as the clearing agent to Vanguard self-clearing is being conflated with two different formats of brokerage accounts at Vanguard.

I found an E-Mail from December 31, 2009 that states the below:

"You may receive tax forms for the 2009 tax year from both Pershing LLC and Vanguard Brokerage Services®. In general, Pershing will send tax forms for reportable activity that occurred from January 1, 2009, through May 23, 2009. Vanguard Brokerage, which assumed clearing agent responsibilities from Pershing, will send separate forms for reportable activity that took place after May 23, 2009. The tax forms you receive from Pershing may reflect activity that took place after May 23, 2009, such as dividends or interest or corporate actions for trades that cleared prior to the conversion."

Thus, any association with Pershing has been closed out for over a decade. However, those accounts were still traditional brokerage accounts. Several years ago, Vanguard developed a new format brokerage account which allowed holding of Vanguard and other mutual funds within the same structure. That led some people to consolidate to a single account, which is the company-preferred arrangement. If you had an old format brokerage account AND a mutual fund-only account with the same registration, these were merged into a single new-format brokerage account. If you chose to keep them separate AND never acted on any conversions, then you still have an old-format brokerage account (no relationship to Pershing since 2009). I guess they eventually decided it would be easier to force conversion of those already agreeable to a brokerage account first, before tackling the long-alluded retirement of the mutual fund-only platform. Bogleheads can count many resistors to the latter. Fewer for the former.
I have the new format brokerage, but for other readers I'll re-raise the question of how do I know if I have the legacy brokerage platform ?

Based on the bolded statement above, is it safe to say (1) the legacy brokerage platform doesn't let you buy any mutual funds in it (in contrast to the new brokerage platform), and thus (2) a test to see if you have the legacy brokerage platform is to try to buy a mutual fund in that account?
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by nisiprius »

sycamore wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:33 pmI have the new format brokerage, but for other readers I'll re-raise the question of how do I know if I have the legacy brokerage platform ?

Based on the bolded statement above, is it safe to say (1) the legacy brokerage platform doesn't let you buy any mutual funds in it (in contrast to the new brokerage platform), and thus (2) a test to see if you have the legacy brokerage platform is to try to buy a mutual fund in that account?
The legacy brokerage platform did not let you buy Vanguard mutual funds in it. But it did let you buy everybody else's mutual funds in it.

Yes. It was weird.

The test is to see whether you can buy a Vanguard mutual fund in the "brokerage" account. My Vanguard... stuff... was "upgraded to the new platform" a year or so ago.

Before the upgrade, I had a "brokerage" account which had eight-digit "account numbers." At various times, this Vanguard "brokerage" account held mutual funds from some other mutual fund companies, including (for example) MFS. But it never included any Vanguard mutual fund (except the settlement account, which was a Vanguard Prime Money Market account).

Before the upgrade, I had (most of!) my money in Vanguard mutual funds which were not in the brokerage account; each fund had an "account number" like 0575-99999999999; a four-digit number that actually identified the fund, and an eleven-digit number that identified that it was mine.

Now I only have a "brokerage" account and the Vanguard mutual funds are held in the Vanguard Brokerage Services account.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by sycamore »

Anyone with a legacy brokerage platform still got it? Or was it transitioned (as Vanguard said they would) to the current VBS brokerage platform?
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

I missed noticing an email from Vanguard last week saying one or more of my legacy brokerage accounts had been converted. Secure email held a copy when I logged on today. And this time something has visibly changed in the website. Previously in an inherited IRA Vanguard mutual funds and the one non-Vanguard fund in a brokerage account were grouped separately. The key thing is that the brokerage settlement fund, the federal money market fund, was grouped with the Vanguard mutual funds. Now the settlement fund, still the federal money market fund, is grouped with the brokerage account, and the federal money market fund has been removed from the Vanguard mutual fund grouping. I had no money in any of the settlement money market funds. I detect no other change in any of my Vanguard accounts.

This is not a consolidation of all funds into a single brokerage account. The Vanguard mutual funds and funds in a brokerage account are still grouped separately. In fact now the inherited IRA is grouped and displayed the same as my personal account that has Vanguard mutual funds separate from a non-Vanguard fund and the settlement account in a brokerage account.

The inherited IRA and its brokerage account were opened circa 2005. This change seems trivial; it's puzzling why Vanguard was so mysterious and obscure about what was happening.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

It turns out this legacy brokerage change when applied to an IRA only looked like a trivial change. The effect, hopefully unintended, has been to split the IRA into functionally two separate IRAs, one has the mutual funds and one has the brokerage account. They show separate RMD amounts due in 2022. This have been one, single IRA for over 15 years, but I'm no longer able to move funds between the IRA mutual funds and the IRA settlement account. Not noticed before because other than the annual RMD, I make few transactions. I've notified Vanguard of the problem; we'll see how long it takes to fix.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by Dale_G »

Not sure of your exact problem, but I "think" you cannot "exchange" from a mutual fund to the settlement account. Instead "sell" some amount of the mutual fund - and you should get a drop down asking where you want the money to go. Pick the settlement fund.

I rarely move money to the settlement fund, I may have stumbled/fumbled over this before.

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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by asset_chaos »

In my personal account I can exchange from a mutual fund to the brokerage settlement account; and exactly, there's a drop down menu for where the funds should go and the brokerage settlement fund is amongst the available destinations. And that's how it used to work in this IRA. But now in the IRA if I try to exchange from an IRA mutual fund into the IRA brokerage settlement account, I get a note saying the transaction can't be completed and to call Vanguard; that comes up in the drop down menu where the settlement account should be. If I try to exchange from the IRA brokerage settlement account into an IRA mutual fund, I get a notice that I'm about to make a distribution that counts towards the 2022 RMD, and the RMD amount listed is the correct amount for only the value in the IRA brokerage account. This inability now to exchange between the brokeage and mutual fund parts of the IRA account is why I think they've taken the single IRA account that had Vanguard mutual funds and a non-Vanguard fund in the brokerage and have severed these into two separate IRA accounts, one with the mutual funds and one with the brokerage asset.

I'm still waiting for Vanguard to get back to me about this.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by The Casualty »

sycamore wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:05 pm Anyone with a legacy brokerage platform still got it? Or was it transitioned (as Vanguard said they would) to the current VBS brokerage platform?
Still have the legacy account that dates back to 1983.

I spoke with a VG Rep last summer and they told me if I wanted to keep the legacy account it would be fine. I can transition or not I guess.
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Re: date set for Vanguard retiring its legacy brokerage platform

Post by abuss368 »

The Casualty wrote: Wed Jan 05, 2022 8:52 pm
sycamore wrote: Wed Nov 03, 2021 3:05 pm Anyone with a legacy brokerage platform still got it? Or was it transitioned (as Vanguard said they would) to the current VBS brokerage platform?
Still have the legacy account that dates back to 1983.

I spoke with a VG Rep last summer and they told me if I wanted to keep the legacy account it would be fine. I can transition or not I guess.
I transitioned a while back and have had no issues. I don’t blame Vanguard to upgrading their systems and consolidating technologies. Good for them.

When I talked with Vanguard a while back, they mentioned all accounts will eventually move over.

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