"What about those great companies you're missing?"
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"What about those great companies you're missing?"
Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
e.g., https://tinyurl.com/yzbdmw84
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
e.g., https://tinyurl.com/yzbdmw84
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Sounds like they're on sale, then.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The "sale" has lasted an awfully long time.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
0% of my portfolio is allocated to the underperformance of international equities
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Good, more time for me to accumulate.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
It has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Last edited by Nathan Drake on Tue May 18, 2021 11:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Is 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Returns roughly equal to US TBM since 1996. For reference, the first flip phone (Motorola StarTAC) went on sale in January 1996.
Last edited by AlwaysLearningMore on Tue May 18, 2021 12:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
- anon_investor
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Obviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The past is clearAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:45 amReturns roughly equal to US TBM since 1996. For reference, the first flip phone (Motorola StarTAC went on sale in January 1996).
The future is not
This is just another anti-Intl post with cherry picked start/end dates
What actionable moves do your graphs show?
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
I remember the decade that had 0 in the 3rd digit. I was "only" allocating 15% of my equities in ex-US stocks. If I had to do it over, I would have made the % much higher like 25%.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
It appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
I have 0% bonds (except for VGSH which is near cash), so that works for me.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:45 amReturns roughly equal to US TBM since 1996. For reference, the first flip phone (Motorola StarTAC went on sale in January 1996).
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The US is great at acquisition/domicile of great companies.
Own 100 domestic stocks and one doubles the rest stay unchanged and the index is uplifted by 1% assuming equal $$$ weightings. Own 1000 global stocks and one might rise ten-fold to uplift the index by 1%. The majority of stocks lag the index/average. Treble or more the number of right tail/great stocks and more the better. And the US is good at growing/attracting/buying more than its fair share of right tailers.
Own 100 domestic stocks and one doubles the rest stay unchanged and the index is uplifted by 1% assuming equal $$$ weightings. Own 1000 global stocks and one might rise ten-fold to uplift the index by 1%. The majority of stocks lag the index/average. Treble or more the number of right tail/great stocks and more the better. And the US is good at growing/attracting/buying more than its fair share of right tailers.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Please re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Actually, winning lottery tickets beat Crapto this past decade.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
VTI 48%, VXUS 12%, BND 40%
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
“Held its own” meaning performed poorly for a very long time? YesAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Until it didn’t
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The start date on this graph reflects the maximum overlap time for all to be compared; it's as far back as I could find M* will go on these performance graphs. They're not cherry-picked.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:47 am...This is just another anti-Intl post with cherry picked start/end dates....AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:45 amReturns roughly equal to US TBM since 1996. For reference, the first flip phone (Motorola StarTAC went on sale in January 1996).
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
It’s not long enough, and the end date is cherry pickedAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:10 pmThe start date on this graph reflects the maximum overlap time for all to be compared; it's as far back as I could find M* will go on these performance graphs. They're not cherry-picked.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:47 am...This is just another anti-Intl post with cherry picked start/end dates....AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:45 amReturns roughly equal to US TBM since 1996. For reference, the first flip phone (Motorola StarTAC went on sale in January 1996).
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Seems Microsoft has had better returns than VG Total International when comparing as far back as January 1997 (as far back as I can find on M*).Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 pm“Held its own” meaning performed poorly for a very long time? YesAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Until it didn’t
This thread was started with the premise of looking at "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
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- anon_investor
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Who says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
This. There are a many poorly performing "great" US companies to choose from T, GE, MO, GM, PRU, etc.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
They were effectively a wash until very recentlyAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:19 pmSeems Microsoft has had better returns than VG Total International when comparing as far back as January 1997 (as far back as I can find on M*).Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 pm“Held its own” meaning performed poorly for a very long time? YesAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Until it didn’t
This thread was started with the premise of looking at "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The premise of the OP was to see how the 4 international "great companies" (brought up in a prior thread, linked in the OP) fared compared against TSM, and if a US-only investor would have made more money holding those stocks.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 amIs 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Yes, but what about the future?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 pmThe premise of the OP was to see how the 4 international "great companies" (brought up in a prior thread, linked in the OP) fared compared against TSM, and if a US-only investor would have made more money holding those stocks.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 am
Is 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Even that's murky. I recommend reading AQR's paper "The Long Run is Lying to You" rather than wasting time on another one of these tedious threads.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Your words "...performed very poorly for a long time...."Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:33 pmThey were effectively a wash until very recentlyAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:19 pmSeems Microsoft has had better returns than VG Total International when comparing as far back as January 1997 (as far back as I can find on M*).Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 pm“Held its own” meaning performed poorly for a very long time? YesAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 am
It has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
Until it didn’t
This thread was started with the premise of looking at "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
Yet as far as I can tell, Microsoft has always performed better than Vanguard Total Int'l.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Oh, okay, so it very slightly outperformed (effectively a wash)AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:48 pmYour words "...performed very poorly for a long time...."Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:33 pmThey were effectively a wash until very recentlyAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:19 pmSeems Microsoft has had better returns than VG Total International when comparing as far back as January 1997 (as far back as I can find on M*).Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:05 pm“Held its own” meaning performed poorly for a very long time? YesAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 am
It appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)
Until it didn’t
This thread was started with the premise of looking at "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
Yet as far as I can tell, Microsoft has always performed better than Vanguard Total Int'l.
What’s your point exactly?
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Be sure to leave out any outperforming intl stocks that don't fit with your pre-conceived agenda such as TCEHY which has a 32% CAGR. Besides the fact that this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The OP contains a link to the 4 stocks brought up by another poster in that thread. The premise of my comparison was to see if holding those stocks would have made a US-only investor more money.burritoLover wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:59 pmBe sure to leave out any outperforming intl stocks that don't fit with your pre-conceived agenda such as TCEHY which has a 32% CAGR. Besides the fact that this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
Feel free to start your own thread on TCEHY, or any other financial entity.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The future is not knownAlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:03 pmThe OP contains a link to the 4 stocks brought up by another poster in that thread. The premise of my comparison was to see if holding those stocks would have made a US-only investor more money.burritoLover wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:59 pmBe sure to leave out any outperforming intl stocks that don't fit with your pre-conceived agenda such as TCEHY which has a 32% CAGR. Besides the fact that this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
Feel free to start your own thread on TCEHY, or any other financial entity.
The 4 companies in the OP could be great investments going forward
Their lackluster past performance is a meaningless metric
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Didn't need a new thread then - this whole premise is ridiculous to begin with. I feel like I'm in another dividend chasing thread except this time it is about international stocks.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:03 pmThe OP contains a link to the 4 stocks brought up by another poster in that thread. The premise of my comparison was to see if holding those stocks would have made a US-only investor more money.burritoLover wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:59 pmBe sure to leave out any outperforming intl stocks that don't fit with your pre-conceived agenda such as TCEHY which has a 32% CAGR. Besides the fact that this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
Feel free to start your own thread on TCEHY, or any other financial entity.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
If only I had a retrofitted DMC Delorean equipped with a flux capacitor and 1.21 gigawatts of power going 88 miles per hour. I could make a killing in the stock market after my return.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:37 pmYes, but what about the future?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 pmThe premise of the OP was to see how the 4 international "great companies" (brought up in a prior thread, linked in the OP) fared compared against TSM, and if a US-only investor would have made more money holding those stocks.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 am
Obviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
What is your take home message then? I'm fine owning those 4 stocks. And the underperforming companies of US TSM just as much. That is part of the deal of being diversified and index investing. One doesn't know in advance what companies (or countries) will outperform.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:03 pmThe OP contains a link to the 4 stocks brought up by another poster in that thread. The premise of my comparison was to see if holding those stocks would have made a US-only investor more money.burritoLover wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:59 pmBe sure to leave out any outperforming intl stocks that don't fit with your pre-conceived agenda such as TCEHY which has a 32% CAGR. Besides the fact that this is a ridiculous comparison to begin with.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
(Personally, I have held a modest allocation to int'l equities, so the poor performance of int'l hampered my returns as well.)
Feel free to start your own thread on TCEHY, or any other financial entity.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
But that is not a fair comparison. Those 4 international companies are low growth, probably considered more value. The US TSM is heavily tech/growth tilted, a better comparison might be taking some foreign tech companies.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 pmThe premise of the OP was to see how the 4 international "great companies" (brought up in a prior thread, linked in the OP) fared compared against TSM, and if a US-only investor would have made more money holding those stocks.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pmPlease re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:46 amObviously the OP's crystal ball was not working. If the goal is diversification, world market cap weight (e.g. VT) makes the most sense. If someone wants to make a more concentraited bet but have at least some diversification, VTSAX/VTI is not a bad way to go. Certainly better than individual stock picking or crypto.Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:39 am
Is 100% of it allocated to the beat asset class this past decade (Crypto?)
If not, I wonder why you would hold such an underperforming clunker like VTSAX
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
I notice that you take a different starting date form this graph than in your original graph.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
BeBH65. (only an investment enthusiast, not a financial adviser, perform your due diligence). |
Have a look at https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Outline_of_Non-US_domiciles
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
And US TSM got crushed versus just putting everything in TSLA:AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 10:56 am So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion2_2=100
The point of the OP seems incredibly silly.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
minesweep wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:19 pmdeletedNathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:37 pmYes, but what about the future?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:35 pmThe premise of the OP was to see how the 4 international "great companies" (brought up in a prior thread, linked in the OP) fared compared against TSM, and if a US-only investor would have made more money holding those stocks.anon_investor wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:23 pmWho says great companies are going to provide out-performance? Those are not very exciting compared to the FAANG stocks. I think they are more comparable to say Pfizer, P&G, Coca-Cola, etc. Maybe compare those?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 12:00 pm
Please re-read the OP. It was about the individual securities which are often touted as "great companies" that are lost to US-only investors.
No prognostications made, no crystal ball needed.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
The original graph contained the 4 stocks brought up in the linked thread; the starting date was the earliest M* date that compared all.BeBH65 wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:25 pmI notice that you take a different starting date form this graph than in your original graph.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:56 amIt appears as though Microsoft more than held its own against Total International, not just recently. (M* can track back to January 1997.)Nathan Drake wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 11:37 amIt has for companies like Microsoft as well. That has recently turned out well. Similarly for Apple.
Long periods of poor performance tell us nothing about the future.
The other graph has different entities to compare, and I similarly found the earliest M* for those.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Per the OP, to see if the 4 stocks held out by the poster in the linked thread would add to the returns of a US-only investor, since Total Int'l has not.Da5id wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:20 pm What is your take home message then? I'm fine owning those 4 stocks. And the underperforming companies of US TSM just as much. That is part of the deal of being diversified and index investing. One doesn't know in advance what companies (or countries) will outperform.
Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
e.g., https://tinyurl.com/yzbdmw84
So I looked for a rough estimate as to how those companies have fared against US TSM.
The furthest back I could find on M* to compare all was January 6, 2003:
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
But you have no take home other than "he picked 4 bad examples"? Why create a thread for that?AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:39 pmPer the OP, to see if the 4 stocks held out by the poster in the linked thread would add to the returns of a US-only investor, since Total Int'l has not.Da5id wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 1:20 pm What is your take home message then? I'm fine owning those 4 stocks. And the underperforming companies of US TSM just as much. That is part of the deal of being diversified and index investing. One doesn't know in advance what companies (or countries) will outperform.
Out of curiosity I wanted to look at the point brought up about "all the great companies you're missing out on e.g. Nestle, Total SA, Novartis, AstraZeneca."
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
A "european stock" portfolio consisting of...
SAP 25%
VOD 25%
ABB 25%
ASML 25%
....blows the doors off US TSM for the last 20 years.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion5_2=100
What does that prove?
Nothing, really, other than how silly it is to compare any arbitrary grouping of 4 stocks to a total stock market index.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Hi everyone! Goodness gracious. A little disconcerting that a post of mine created August of last year has such staying power.
I choose those four companies simply because they were in Vanguard Wellington's portfolio holdings, and (as of 03/31/2021, at least) they continue to be. If it is such a no brainer to dump them based on their underperformance in recent years relative to the US Total Stock Market, then, Wellington must be super stupid.
I choose those four companies simply because they were in Vanguard Wellington's portfolio holdings, and (as of 03/31/2021, at least) they continue to be. If it is such a no brainer to dump them based on their underperformance in recent years relative to the US Total Stock Market, then, Wellington must be super stupid.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Those 4 stocks were chosen by another poster as examples of "great stocks" a US-only investor would be missing. I wanted to know if holding those in addition to TSM would have added to returns over the maximum holding period I could find at M*. It didn't.watchnerd wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 2:02 pmA "european stock" portfolio consisting of...
SAP 25%
VOD 25%
ABB 25%
ASML 25%
....blows the doors off US TSM for the last 20 years.
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion5_2=100
What does that prove?
Nothing, really, other than how silly it is to compare any arbitrary grouping of 4 stocks to a total stock market index.
Feel to start your own thread with whatever comparisons you fancy.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
While one may start a thread, one can't really control what others post in it. Particularly if it is somewhat related (mods may otherwise remove as derail I guess).AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:50 pm Those 4 stocks were chosen by another poster as examples of "great stocks" a US-only investor would be missing. I wanted to know if holding those in addition to TSM would have added to returns over the maximum holding period I could find at M*. It didn't.
Feel to start your own thread with whatever comparisons you fancy.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Then I'm glad this thread got your attentionDa5id wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:57 pmWhile one may start a thread, one can't really control what others post in it. Particularly if it is somewhat related (mods may otherwise remove as derail I guess).AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:50 pm Those 4 stocks were chosen by another poster as examples of "great stocks" a US-only investor would be missing. I wanted to know if holding those in addition to TSM would have added to returns over the maximum holding period I could find at M*. It didn't.
Feel to start your own thread with whatever comparisons you fancy.
Retirement is best when you have a lot to live on, and a lot to live for. * None of what I post is investment advice.* |
FIRE'd July 2023
Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
There really wouldn't be any point in starting a new thread, as I already did a different comparison above.AlwaysLearningMore wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:50 pm Feel to start your own thread with whatever comparisons you fancy.
It's a goofy methodology to begin with.
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
Wellington holds 67 stocks.Robot Monster wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:24 pm Hi everyone! Goodness gracious. A little disconcerting that a post of mine created August of last year has such staying power.
I choose those four companies simply because they were in Vanguard Wellington's portfolio holdings, and (as of 03/31/2021, at least) they continue to be. If it is such a no brainer to dump them based on their underperformance in recent years relative to the US Total Stock Market, then, Wellington must be super stupid.
If I'm doing my math right, using those 67 stocks, the set of possible 4 stock portfolios we could compare to TSM is 1072.
This thread could get really really long.....
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Re: "What about those great companies you're missing?"
67 choose 4 is 766,480. So lots of combinationswatchnerd wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 5:02 pmWellington holds 67 stocks.Robot Monster wrote: ↑Tue May 18, 2021 3:24 pm Hi everyone! Goodness gracious. A little disconcerting that a post of mine created August of last year has such staying power.
I choose those four companies simply because they were in Vanguard Wellington's portfolio holdings, and (as of 03/31/2021, at least) they continue to be. If it is such a no brainer to dump them based on their underperformance in recent years relative to the US Total Stock Market, then, Wellington must be super stupid.
If I'm doing my math right, using those 67 stocks, the set of possible 4 stock portfolios we could compare to TSM is 1072.
This thread could get really really long.....