Long term international bond funds

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whereskyle
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Long term international bond funds

Post by whereskyle »

Hello all,

I'm stocking up on long-term bonds, and I'd be interested in considering long-term ex-us bonds, but I can't find any options easily investable at a reasonable cost (i.e., ER below .20).

Anyone know of funds that would meet these criteria?

Thanks!
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
secondopinion
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Re: Long term international bond funds

Post by secondopinion »

whereskyle wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:54 am Hello all,

I'm stocking up on long-term bonds, and I'd be interested in considering long-term ex-us bonds, but I can't find any options easily investable at a reasonable cost (i.e., ER below .20).

Anyone know of funds that would meet these criteria?

Thanks!
USD-Hedged or unhedged? I would be extremely interested in the latter (volatility would be very high due to interest rates and currency movement, but I think their diversification would be good).
Passive investing: not about making big bucks but making profits. Active investing: not about beating the market but meeting goals. Speculation: not about timing the market but taking profitable risks.
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vineviz
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Re: Long term international bond funds

Post by vineviz »

whereskyle wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:54 am Hello all,

I'm stocking up on long-term bonds, and I'd be interested in considering long-term ex-us bonds, but I can't find any options easily investable at a reasonable cost (i.e., ER below .20).

Anyone know of funds that would meet these criteria?
I'm pretty sure that no such thing exists, and probably for very good reason.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
Topic Author
whereskyle
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Joined: Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:29 am

Re: Long term international bond funds

Post by whereskyle »

vineviz wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:29 pm
whereskyle wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:54 am Hello all,

I'm stocking up on long-term bonds, and I'd be interested in considering long-term ex-us bonds, but I can't find any options easily investable at a reasonable cost (i.e., ER below .20).

Anyone know of funds that would meet these criteria?
I'm pretty sure that no such thing exists, and probably for very good reason.
Yeah, that seems to be the case. As an intellectual exercise, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the "good" reasons no such thing exists.

Duration-specific BNDW equivalents seem desirable to me! But the industry I guess is still just tiptoeing into the global fund, rather than US/country specific arena.

Before having heard your reasoning, I think I'd be inclined to build a simple two-fund accumulation portfolio of VT and "Long-term BNDW."

Thanks for the input.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
Topic Author
whereskyle
Posts: 1911
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Re: Long term international bond funds

Post by whereskyle »

secondopinion wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:04 pm
whereskyle wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 7:54 am Hello all,

I'm stocking up on long-term bonds, and I'd be interested in considering long-term ex-us bonds, but I can't find any options easily investable at a reasonable cost (i.e., ER below .20).

Anyone know of funds that would meet these criteria?

Thanks!
USD-Hedged or unhedged? I would be extremely interested in the latter (volatility would be very high due to interest rates and currency movement, but I think their diversification would be good).
I'd be interested in considering both! Really doesn't seem like either fund exists though.

Heck, are there any simple ex-us long-term funds? Somewhat surprising that there seem to be only (or primarily) US duration-specific bond funds.
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
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vineviz
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Re: Long term international bond funds

Post by vineviz »

whereskyle wrote: Fri May 14, 2021 12:50 pm Yeah, that seems to be the case. As an intellectual exercise, I'd love to hear your thoughts about the "good" reasons no such thing exists.
Virtually no US-based investor will find long-term ex-US bonds to be on their efficient frontier. An investor who can own stocks will find that a combination of stocks and something approximating their risk-free asset will be the optimal combination for them, and for US investors that risk-free asset is going to be some form of US Treasury instrument.

Only investors with very small equity allocations (e.g. <40% of the portfolio) will find it efficient to own ex-US bonds, and not coincidentally most such investors will have an investment horizon more aligned with short- or intermediate-term bonds rather than long-term bonds.

In the US, there's simply no natural market for a long-term ex-US bond fund.
"Far more money has been lost by investors preparing for corrections than has been lost in corrections themselves." ~~ Peter Lynch
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