You don’t have to own any. You just need to be able to talk about it in a BH debate.
I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
If I buy in December, can I buy in January again? Or do I have to wait until December of next year?
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Calendar year, you can buy in January too.
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Your post reminds me why I passed up on paper I Bonds for my 2020 tax return. I am still debating whether I want to take the paper I Bond plunge for my 2021 tax return or just be content with $20k in his/hers electronic I Bonds for 2022.mall0c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am I have been buying ibonds for about ten years now and often take advantage of the tax refund method to get another $5k into the account. My personal experience with this transaction is that it can be quite stressful. They send you 12 paper bonds of varying denominations (6x$50, 1x$200, 1x$500, 4x$1k), each in a separate envelope. That is 12 opportunities for something to get lost. This year all my bonds but one showed up on the same day, guess which denomination was missing - on of the $1k bonds. Luckily 10 days later the missing $1k bond showed up. I figured for sure it was lost. Then you have to register them on TD and send them all back again. Luckily I have never actually had to get on the phone with the treasury and convince them to send me a new bond, but I fear that day will come someday. It makes me seriously consider every year whether I want to put myself through it again.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
My primary issue with paper bonds is that it eliminates one of the advantages I find with Savings Bonds > CDs: The ability to make partial withdrawals of a bond.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:47 amYour post reminds me why I passed up on paper I Bonds for my 2020 tax return. I am still debating whether I want to take the paper I Bond plunge for my 2021 tax return or just be content with $20k in his/hers electronic I Bonds for 2022.mall0c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am I have been buying ibonds for about ten years now and often take advantage of the tax refund method to get another $5k into the account. My personal experience with this transaction is that it can be quite stressful. They send you 12 paper bonds of varying denominations (6x$50, 1x$200, 1x$500, 4x$1k), each in a separate envelope. That is 12 opportunities for something to get lost. This year all my bonds but one showed up on the same day, guess which denomination was missing - on of the $1k bonds. Luckily 10 days later the missing $1k bond showed up. I figured for sure it was lost. Then you have to register them on TD and send them all back again. Luckily I have never actually had to get on the phone with the treasury and convince them to send me a new bond, but I fear that day will come someday. It makes me seriously consider every year whether I want to put myself through it again.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Hallelujah! A Mega Thread for I Bonds!
Keep interest as your friend, not your foe. |
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I got some 0.2% fixed rate paper I Bonds sitting in my safe deposit box…I guess that makes me a “I Bond Head”.
Over the years (when they were paying 1-2%), I’ve been tempted to cash them in to simplify things. Never would’ve thought those suckers would be paying >7.3%.
Over the years (when they were paying 1-2%), I’ve been tempted to cash them in to simplify things. Never would’ve thought those suckers would be paying >7.3%.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
It's a percentage thing. You need to have enough that it makes a difference to your portfolio. If it makes up less than 1% of your portfolio, you can still claim to be an I-Bond head but really, beyond the "yay!" factor .. what difference does it make to your life if you are earning 7% on less than 1% of your portfolio?
I would say once you start getting closer to 5% it starts to make a noticeable difference.
Regardless, I am not above celebrating these small victories. Even If you own $25 of I Bonds (I believe they are sold in $25 increments) you can call yourself an I Bond Head if you like.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Only if it is a compliment.bligh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:35 amIt's a percentage thing. You need to have enough that it makes a difference to your portfolio. If it makes up less than 1% of your portfolio, you can still claim to be an I-Bond head but really, beyond the "yay!" factor .. what difference does it make to your life if you are earning 7% on less than 1% of your portfolio?
I would say once you start getting closer to 5% it starts to make a noticeable difference.
Regardless, I am not above celebrating these small victories. Even If you own $25 of I Bonds (I believe they are sold in $25 increments) you can call yourself an I Bond Head if you like.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Question about treasurydirect account and users.
I have a treasurydirect account. If my wife wants to invest, can she do it in my account? What's the process? We prefer 1 login.
I have a treasurydirect account. If my wife wants to invest, can she do it in my account? What's the process? We prefer 1 login.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I-Bonds make up about 1/3 of my EF, but a much smaller percentage of my overall portfolio.bligh wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 10:35 amIt's a percentage thing. You need to have enough that it makes a difference to your portfolio. If it makes up less than 1% of your portfolio, you can still claim to be an I-Bond head but really, beyond the "yay!" factor .. what difference does it make to your life if you are earning 7% on less than 1% of your portfolio?
I would say once you start getting closer to 5% it starts to make a noticeable difference.
Regardless, I am not above celebrating these small victories. Even If you own $25 of I Bonds (I believe they are sold in $25 increments) you can call yourself an I Bond Head if you like.
I like a significant part of my EF earning 3.54% at the moment.
Last edited by ApeAttack on Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:50 pm, edited 2 times in total.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Because of the way TreasuryDirect is designed, only one person can be the primary owner on an account, and purchase limits are tied to the primary owner. If your wife wants to invest in TreasuryDirect and buy I Bonds in her own name with her own purchase limit, she will need a new login.
It's permitted for multiple TreasuryDirect accounts to share the same email address, if that helps.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
For my own edification, I put together a comparison of historical I-bond rates versus high-yield savings accounts (HYSA), 1-year treasury bond yield-to-market, and 5-year treasury bond yield-to-market. Thought I'd post it because it looked pretty interesting.
I sampled rates for the various account types at the beginning of May and November each year, then averaged the two rates together to get a yearly rate (helps smooth out the noise). I-bonds were definitely worth it! Here's the graph:
EDIT: fixed a bug caused by doubling the fixed component of the I-bond return, as described by #Cruncher below.
Caveats:
* This neglects any interest penalties from selling the I-bond before 5 yrs. However, these are fairly small - if you hold for about 14 months, you get 12 months of interest, so your APY is roughly (12/14) = 85% of the shown value. As you hold for longer periods, the percentage goes up.
* This also neglects taxes, which would generally favor I-bonds over the other options.
* The comparison to savings accounts is skewed by the fact that the fixed component of the I-bonds continues statically for 30 years. This is less of an issue from 2009 onward where fixed rates were close to zero anyway, but it makes I-bonds even better than they appear when looking at older time periods.
* The High-Yield Savings Account numbers were found by pulling up old rate comparison websites in the Wayback Machine, and picking the highest-yielding bank from a major player, not one of the very top rates. The idea was to try to capture the long-term rate by avoiding bait-and-switch companies. This was by necessity kind of arbitrary and inexact, though it should capture pretty well what savings account rate one could find at the time from large, well-known companies with fairly consistent rates and no balance limits.
Sources:
I-bond rates 1998-2021: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... dterms.htm
1 Year Treasury Yield-to-Market 1998-2021: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS1
5 Year Treasury Yield-to-Market 1998-2021: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS5
High-Yield Savings 2005-2008: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://w ... com/rates/
High-Yield Savings 2008-2021: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... /savings/
I-bond heads rejoice!
I sampled rates for the various account types at the beginning of May and November each year, then averaged the two rates together to get a yearly rate (helps smooth out the noise). I-bonds were definitely worth it! Here's the graph:
EDIT: fixed a bug caused by doubling the fixed component of the I-bond return, as described by #Cruncher below.
Caveats:
* This neglects any interest penalties from selling the I-bond before 5 yrs. However, these are fairly small - if you hold for about 14 months, you get 12 months of interest, so your APY is roughly (12/14) = 85% of the shown value. As you hold for longer periods, the percentage goes up.
* This also neglects taxes, which would generally favor I-bonds over the other options.
* The comparison to savings accounts is skewed by the fact that the fixed component of the I-bonds continues statically for 30 years. This is less of an issue from 2009 onward where fixed rates were close to zero anyway, but it makes I-bonds even better than they appear when looking at older time periods.
* The High-Yield Savings Account numbers were found by pulling up old rate comparison websites in the Wayback Machine, and picking the highest-yielding bank from a major player, not one of the very top rates. The idea was to try to capture the long-term rate by avoiding bait-and-switch companies. This was by necessity kind of arbitrary and inexact, though it should capture pretty well what savings account rate one could find at the time from large, well-known companies with fairly consistent rates and no balance limits.
Sources:
I-bond rates 1998-2021: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... dterms.htm
1 Year Treasury Yield-to-Market 1998-2021: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS1
5 Year Treasury Yield-to-Market 1998-2021: https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/DGS5
High-Yield Savings 2005-2008: https://web.archive.org/web/*/https://w ... com/rates/
High-Yield Savings 2008-2021: https://web.archive.org/web/*/http://ww ... /savings/
I-bond heads rejoice!
Last edited by stefan_lec on Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:25 am, edited 3 times in total.
Portfolio: 75% VT, 25% BNDW/I-bonds/HYSA
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
You need to redo the I Bond rates shown on your graph, stefan. It appears you are doubling the fixed rate as well as the six month inflation rate. But the fixed rate is already annualized. The composite rate should be calculated as shown in the Combining the two rates section of the page you reference:stefan_lec wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:08 pmFor my own edification, I put together a comparison of historical I-bond rates versus high-yield savings accounts (HYSA), 1-year treasury bond yield-to-market, and 5-year treasury bond yield-to-market.
...
Sources:
I-bond rates 1998-2021: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... dterms.htm
composite rate = fixed rate + (2 X inflation rate) + (fixed rate X inflation rate)
Here are the correct values, assuming the fixed rate to be announced November 1st remains at 0%.
Code: Select all
------- Rates -------
Month Fixed Inflat Compos
Code: Select all
Sep 1998 3.40% 0.62% 4.66% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 1998 3.30% 0.86% 5.05% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 1999 3.30% 0.86% 5.05% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 1999 3.40% 1.76% 6.98% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2000 3.60% 1.91% 7.49% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2000 3.40% 1.52% 6.49% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2001 3.00% 1.44% 5.92% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2001 2.00% 1.19% 4.40% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2002 2.00% 0.28% 2.57% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2002 1.60% 1.23% 4.08% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2003 1.10% 1.77% 4.66% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2003 1.10% 0.54% 2.19% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2004 1.00% 1.19% 3.39% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2004 1.00% 1.33% 3.67% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2005 1.20% 1.79% 4.80% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2005 1.00% 2.85% 6.73% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2006 1.40% 0.50% 2.41% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2006 1.40% 1.55% 4.52% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2007 1.30% 1.21% 3.74% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2007 1.20% 1.53% 4.28% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2008 0.00% 2.42% 4.84% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2008 0.70% 2.46% 5.64% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2009 0.10% -2.78% 0.00%
Nov 2009 0.30% 1.53% 3.36% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2010 0.20% 0.77% 1.74% XXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2010 0.00% 0.37% 0.74% XXXXXX
May 2011 0.00% 2.30% 4.60% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2011 0.00% 1.53% 3.06% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2012 0.00% 1.10% 2.20% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2012 0.00% 0.88% 1.76% XXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2013 0.00% 0.59% 1.18% XXXXXXXXX
Nov 2013 0.20% 0.59% 1.38% XXXXXXXXXX
May 2014 0.10% 0.92% 1.94% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2014 0.00% 0.74% 1.48% XXXXXXXXXXX
May 2015 0.00% -0.80% 0.00%
Nov 2015 0.10% 0.77% 1.64% XXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2016 0.10% 0.08% 0.26% XX
Nov 2016 0.00% 1.38% 2.76% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2017 0.00% 0.98% 1.96% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2017 0.10% 1.24% 2.58% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2018 0.30% 1.11% 2.52% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2018 0.50% 1.16% 2.83% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2019 0.50% 0.70% 1.90% XXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2019 0.20% 1.01% 2.22% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2020 0.00% 0.53% 1.06% XXXXXXXX
Nov 2020 0.00% 0.84% 1.68% XXXXXXXXXXXXX
May 2021 0.00% 1.77% 3.54% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Nov 2021 0.00% 3.56% 7.12% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I'd like to add that if an investor is redeeming their I Bonds early and taking the three-month loss of interest simply because the rate has dropped to an unacceptable level, or the need for the proceeds is not immediate, it could well pay to hold the bonds for an extra three months at the lower rate before redeeming them. Doing so would mean the penalty would be much less while you'd retain the higher three month's interest.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
My children each have a small amount of income this year, think $60 or so. They file taxes as I feel it may be appropriate to justify the Roth IRA contribution I make in their names. If I were so inclined, could I do the over-prepay technique and get them each paper I bond refunds far in excess of their income? Does anyone know if FreeTaxUSA.com handles this I bond refund option?
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Can I buy $10k of I Bonds in my two months old name? He has a SS #. Or would that great a tax headache?
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Thanks for the review, #Cruncher! Appreciate the opportunity to learn. I fixed the graph and added the caveat you mentioned, all good points.#Cruncher wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:07 amYou need to redo the I Bond rates shown on your graph, stefan. It appears you are doubling the fixed rate as well as the six month inflation rate. But the fixed rate is already annualized. The composite rate should be calculated as shown in the Combining the two rates section of the page you reference:stefan_lec wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:08 pmFor my own edification, I put together a comparison of historical I-bond rates versus high-yield savings accounts (HYSA), 1-year treasury bond yield-to-market, and 5-year treasury bond yield-to-market.
...
Sources:
I-bond rates 1998-2021: https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... dterms.htm
composite rate = fixed rate + (2 X inflation rate) + (fixed rate X inflation rate)
Here are the correct values, assuming the fixed rate to be announced November 1st remains at 0%.Code: Select all
------- Rates ------- Month Fixed Inflat Compos
Besides the caveats you mention, there is a more general one comparing these I Bond rates with savings account rates: After the first six months, the fixed portion of the composite rate will continue for up to 29.5 more years. Multiple purchases of I Bonds will therefore be earning an amalgam of each one's fixed rate and the common inflation rate that changes. On the other hand, the entire balance held in a savings account will be subject to the account's changing rate.Code: Select all
Sep 1998 3.40% 0.62% 4.66% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 1998 3.30% 0.86% 5.05% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 1999 3.30% 0.86% 5.05% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 1999 3.40% 1.76% 6.98% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2000 3.60% 1.91% 7.49% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2000 3.40% 1.52% 6.49% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2001 3.00% 1.44% 5.92% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2001 2.00% 1.19% 4.40% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2002 2.00% 0.28% 2.57% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2002 1.60% 1.23% 4.08% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2003 1.10% 1.77% 4.66% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2003 1.10% 0.54% 2.19% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2004 1.00% 1.19% 3.39% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2004 1.00% 1.33% 3.67% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2005 1.20% 1.79% 4.80% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2005 1.00% 2.85% 6.73% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2006 1.40% 0.50% 2.41% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2006 1.40% 1.55% 4.52% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2007 1.30% 1.21% 3.74% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2007 1.20% 1.53% 4.28% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2008 0.00% 2.42% 4.84% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2008 0.70% 2.46% 5.64% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2009 0.10% -2.78% 0.00% Nov 2009 0.30% 1.53% 3.36% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2010 0.20% 0.77% 1.74% XXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2010 0.00% 0.37% 0.74% XXXXXX May 2011 0.00% 2.30% 4.60% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2011 0.00% 1.53% 3.06% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2012 0.00% 1.10% 2.20% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2012 0.00% 0.88% 1.76% XXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2013 0.00% 0.59% 1.18% XXXXXXXXX Nov 2013 0.20% 0.59% 1.38% XXXXXXXXXX May 2014 0.10% 0.92% 1.94% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2014 0.00% 0.74% 1.48% XXXXXXXXXXX May 2015 0.00% -0.80% 0.00% Nov 2015 0.10% 0.77% 1.64% XXXXXXXXXXXX May 2016 0.10% 0.08% 0.26% XX Nov 2016 0.00% 1.38% 2.76% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2017 0.00% 0.98% 1.96% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2017 0.10% 1.24% 2.58% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2018 0.30% 1.11% 2.52% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2018 0.50% 1.16% 2.83% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2019 0.50% 0.70% 1.90% XXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2019 0.20% 1.01% 2.22% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2020 0.00% 0.53% 1.06% XXXXXXXX Nov 2020 0.00% 0.84% 1.68% XXXXXXXXXXXXX May 2021 0.00% 1.77% 3.54% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX Nov 2021 0.00% 3.56% 7.12% XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX
Portfolio: 75% VT, 25% BNDW/I-bonds/HYSA
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
TreasuryDirect allows you to establish a "Minor Linked Account" in the name and SSN of a minor in order to purchase bonds in the minor's name.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... bMinor.htm
Keep in mind that there are no take-backsies on gifts to minors - this is a custodial form of account. The money belongs to the child and the money can only be withdrawn for the child's benefit or by the child themselves once they grow up. Treating the money in a custodial account as an unrestricted extension of your own savings is unethical and illegal.
There are other, legal ways of 'hacking the limits' (trusts, sole proprietorships, etc) that don't involve roping in other people.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Another quirk about this is the exception to the qualified education tax exclusion.BrokerageZelda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:43 amTreasuryDirect allows you to establish a "Minor Linked Account" in the name and SSN of a minor in order to purchase bonds in the minor's name.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... bMinor.htm
Keep in mind that there are no take-backsies on gifts to minors - this is a custodial form of account. The money belongs to the child and the money can only be withdrawn for the child's benefit or by the child themselves once they grow up. Treating the money in a custodial account as an unrestricted extension of your own savings is unethical and illegal.
There are other, legal ways of 'hacking the limits' (trusts, sole proprietorships, etc) that don't involve roping in other people.
I do not know a lot about it but have always seen the note on the treasury's site and thought it to be a little peculiar.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/pl ... cation.htm
Note: A bond bought by a parent and issued in the name of his or her child under age 24 does not qualify for the exclusion by the parent or the child.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I agree that this is a giant red flag that anyone interested in the education exclusion needs to be sure they understand. I think most people intuitively believed (and I used to believe, before I really thought about it) that you should buy the bonds in the child's name in order to pay for the child's education, but if you think about it, how much of a benefit is an income tax exclusion for the average college-bound senior, as opposed to a possibly mid-career parent?MrJedi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:07 am Another quirk about this is the exception to the qualified education tax exclusion.
I do not know a lot about it but have always seen the note on the treasury's site and thought it to be a little peculiar.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/pl ... cation.htm
Note: A bond bought by a parent and issued in the name of his or her child under age 24 does not qualify for the exclusion by the parent or the child.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
If you choose that route, possibly because you are not expecting to qualify for any financial aid due to income, you should probably pay taxes on it annually rather than wait until redemption, in which case very few taxes would be owed even in a six figure portfolio.BrokerageZelda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:13 amI agree that this is a giant red flag that anyone interested in the education exclusion needs to be sure they understand. I think most people intuitively believed (and I used to believe, before I really thought about it) that you should buy the bonds in the child's name in order to pay for the child's education, but if you think about it, how much of a benefit is an income tax exclusion for the average college-bound senior, as opposed to a possibly mid-career parent?MrJedi wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:07 am Another quirk about this is the exception to the qualified education tax exclusion.
I do not know a lot about it but have always seen the note on the treasury's site and thought it to be a little peculiar.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/pl ... cation.htm
Note: A bond bought by a parent and issued in the name of his or her child under age 24 does not qualify for the exclusion by the parent or the child.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Can anyone confirm whether there's an income limit on deferring I Bonds taxes on the interest? I believed that there wasn't until I came across this article from 2018:
https://thecollegefinanciallady.com/201 ... d-i-bonds/
https://thecollegefinanciallady.com/201 ... d-i-bonds/
That'd be a headache if so, but all the I Bonds info I've read has NOT mentioned that detail until I found that article. Is the article erroneous about there being an income cutoff to the I Bonds tax deferral property, or did it actually used to be that way and the law has since changed?You can pay taxes on the interest annually, or if you fall within the income limits (AGI of $93,150 for single filers in 2017, $147,250 for married filing joint), defer the taxes.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Looks erroneous to me.Kinkajou82 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:53 pm Can anyone confirm whether there's an income limit on deferring I Bonds taxes on the interest? I believed that there wasn't until I came across this article from 2018:
https://thecollegefinanciallady.com/201 ... d-i-bonds/
That'd be a headache if so, but all the I Bonds info I've read has NOT mentioned that detail until I found that article. Is the article erroneous about there being an income cutoff to the I Bonds tax deferral property, or did it actually used to be that way and the law has since changed?You can pay taxes on the interest annually, or if you fall within the income limits (AGI of $93,150 for single filers in 2017, $147,250 for married filing joint), defer the taxes.
Here is info directly from the treasury about it:
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... nsider.htm
There is no mention of an income limit for tax deferral. Pub 550 has a whole section about I bonds as well...been awhile since I browsed it but I'm fairly confident it's not there either.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I've been dealing with and promoting I Bonds since they were first issued, and the only income limit that I've ever heard about is for getting the tax-free qualifying educational benefit.
For all practical purposes, there's no realistic way it could be enforced the way that quote asserted anyway.
For all practical purposes, there's no realistic way it could be enforced the way that quote asserted anyway.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Thanks for the confirmation!
I wasn't aware of the income limit on the I Bonds for Education exemption, so I'm glad I asked!
I wasn't aware of the income limit on the I Bonds for Education exemption, so I'm glad I asked!
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
While it’s true that a minors account is an UTMA form and the money belongs to the minor, it’s quite a stretch for the disclaimer notice Treasury Direct puts up on the screen when redeeming bonds out of the minors account. The parent/custodian has discretion as to how the funds are used to benefit the child. We redeemed a bond at zero percent fixed rate and subsequently repurchased an I bond paying a more generous fixed rate. Curious enough, the Treasury makes no mention at time of purchase that the money used to buy Treasury securities belong to the child only.BrokerageZelda wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:43 amTreasuryDirect allows you to establish a "Minor Linked Account" in the name and SSN of a minor in order to purchase bonds in the minor's name.
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/he ... bMinor.htm
Keep in mind that there are no take-backsies on gifts to minors - this is a custodial form of account. The money belongs to the child and the money can only be withdrawn for the child's benefit or by the child themselves once they grow up. Treating the money in a custodial account as an unrestricted extension of your own savings is unethical and illegal.
There are other, legal ways of 'hacking the limits' (trusts, sole proprietorships, etc) that don't involve roping in other people.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I Bonds, so hot right now!
I started buying them shortly after things started recovering from the Great Recession. Everyone was warning about the imminent hyperinflation so I bought them for several years.
I would have been MUCH better off just putting the money in VTSAX. But I guess hindsight is 20/20. And at least now I'm qualified to post in this thread
I started buying them shortly after things started recovering from the Great Recession. Everyone was warning about the imminent hyperinflation so I bought them for several years.
I would have been MUCH better off just putting the money in VTSAX. But I guess hindsight is 20/20. And at least now I'm qualified to post in this thread
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Not sure. Under the influence of this blog we went on a craze of I-bond buying 2001-2005, then gradually forgot about I bonds, though occasionally bought more, as something of an afterthought. The years of very low rates depressed our enthusiasm.
But now, of course we're glad to have I bonds.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
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Last edited by mary1492 on Thu Sep 29, 2022 8:22 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Thanks for this explainer. I have had my attention caught by the rate, but what you wrote makes sense to an I-bond newbie like me!langelgjm wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 11:16 am Two things:
First, to all the newcomers interested in I bonds due to the attractiveness of a 7.12% rate, please keep in mind that the expected real return of new I bonds is 0% (and less than 0% after taxes).
That shouldn't dissuade you from purchasing them (I have been buying them for 8 years, they are the largest component of my bond holdings). And it's possible to get a positive real return, given that inflation in affecting certain sectors much more than others, so the return may be more than your personal inflation. (E.g., if you have solar power and don't need to purchase a car anytime soon, you're insulated from two of the main drivers of high inflation right now). But don't get too excited about the headline number, it's just running to stand still.
Second, understand that the 7.12% rate is annualized, but is based on a 6 month change in CPI-U and only applies for 6 months. So it sounds higher than it really is. It's like a bank offering a teaser APR (annual percentage rate) on deposits, but only for 6 months, so you'll never actually earn that APR.
All told though, we usually keep our emergency fund in our rewards checking account earning 2.05%... seems to be that even if long-term I-bond is supposed to have a 0% real return, that's better than what we're getting on the rewards checking account (which, with inflation, has a real negative return).
Just making sure I'm following here... it would still make sense to move to this, even if we hold for "just" 15 months and eat 3 months of interest at the end, because I'm looking at 5.33% blended return over 12 months. I haven't done the math of what earning 0% for 3 more months from the forfeit penalty would do from an average return standpoint, but that seems to be maximum downside in my scenario and it would still be greater than my current rate. On the potential upside the new rate that comes out after 7.12% could still be higher than our 2.05% rewards checking, and we're still ahead. Not ahead-ahead because inflation, but not falling behind because of 2.05%.
Only caveat being having other emergency funding sources for the first 12 months; my understanding is you can't early withdraw before then. And we've got ample cash elsewhere plus monthly cash flow. Seems low-risk.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Stefan, great chart. Quite a bit of correlation, with a few noticeable blips.stefan_lec wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 8:08 pm For my own edification, I put together a comparison of historical I-bond rates versus high-yield savings accounts (HYSA), 1-year treasury bond yield-to-market, and 5-year treasury bond yield-to-market. Thought I'd post it because it looked pretty interesting.
Any chance you might be interested in including some average 1- and 5-year CD rates for additional comparison?
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
It sounds like if I buy $10k today, I'll get the 3.54% + 7.12% rates for the next 12 months.
Does that mean I can also buy $10k on January 1st 2022 and that will get the 7.12% rate for its first 6 months , too?
Also, if my elderly parents buy $10k and pass away next year, it looks like it can be "reissued in the survivor’s name". But, if I've already made my $10k limit on purchases, can I still do this? Or am I forced to cash the bond?
Thanks!
Does that mean I can also buy $10k on January 1st 2022 and that will get the 7.12% rate for its first 6 months , too?
Also, if my elderly parents buy $10k and pass away next year, it looks like it can be "reissued in the survivor’s name". But, if I've already made my $10k limit on purchases, can I still do this? Or am I forced to cash the bond?
Thanks!
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Yes to question #1 and yes to question #2. Not sure about #3, but I don't think they'd make you redeem the bonds you inherited.catnapper wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 9:03 pm It sounds like if I buy $10k today, I'll get the 3.54% + 7.12% rates for the next 12 months.
Does that mean I can also buy $10k on January 1st 2022 and that will get the 7.12% rate for its first 6 months , too?
Also, if my elderly parents buy $10k and pass away next year, it looks like it can be "reissued in the survivor’s name". But, if I've already made my $10k limit on purchases, can I still do this? Or am I forced to cash the bond?
Thanks!
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Re: I Bonds variable rate @ 3.54% in May
I can't recall if you have to select the option manually, but I do *not* get tax forms annually (am taking the deferred-tax approach). I *guess* and someone else can confirm/deny they assume you're doing option (B)!?ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:43 pm I have a couple questions regarding paying taxes on redeemed I-Bonds. According to the Treasury Direct website, there are two options for reporting taxes:
(A) Report the interest every year on your federal income tax return
(B) Defer reporting the interest until the bond is redeemed (I prefer this method)
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... nsider.htm
My questions:
(1) Will I receive the 1099-INT form only when I cash out the I-Bonds, or every year I hold the I-Bonds? This video makes it seem like I may receive a 1099-INT every year (or maybe the user redeemed I-Bonds every year).
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/to ... 20)-CC.mp4
(2) When purchasing the I-Bonds, do I need to select which option I wish to implement?
Thanks in advance for the input. I plan on making my first purchase of I-Bonds in May and want to be prepared.
"In the absence of clarity, diversification is the only logical strategy" -= Larry Swedroe
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Wish you could buy I-Bonds thru a Bank or Vanguard.
Re: I Bonds variable rate @ 3.54% in May
Wow... a blast from the past. It was only 6 months ago that I took the plunge into the world of I-Bonds. It feels like a lifetime ago. The pandemic does weird things to the perception time.Noobvestor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:27 pmI can't recall if you have to select the option manually, but I do *not* get tax forms annually (am taking the deferred-tax approach). I *guess* and someone else can confirm/deny they assume you're doing option (B)!?ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:43 pm I have a couple questions regarding paying taxes on redeemed I-Bonds. According to the Treasury Direct website, there are two options for reporting taxes:
(A) Report the interest every year on your federal income tax return
(B) Defer reporting the interest until the bond is redeemed (I prefer this method)
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... nsider.htm
My questions:
(1) Will I receive the 1099-INT form only when I cash out the I-Bonds, or every year I hold the I-Bonds? This video makes it seem like I may receive a 1099-INT every year (or maybe the user redeemed I-Bonds every year).
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/to ... 20)-CC.mp4
(2) When purchasing the I-Bonds, do I need to select which option I wish to implement?
Thanks in advance for the input. I plan on making my first purchase of I-Bonds in May and want to be prepared.
I will find out after January if the default is to defer taxes until redemption.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Since I only use the TD website once or twice a year, I typed how to complete the necessary transactions in a text file. It only takes a minute or two to purchase I-Bonds now. Considering the interest rate will be ~7% soon, that's a huge return on investment.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
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Re: I Bonds variable rate @ 3.54% in May
You won't have to wait until Jan. Deferral of taxes is the default.ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:12 amWow... a blast from the past. It was only 6 months ago that I took the plunge into the world of I-Bonds. It feels like a lifetime ago. The pandemic does weird things to the perception time.Noobvestor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:27 pmI can't recall if you have to select the option manually, but I do *not* get tax forms annually (am taking the deferred-tax approach). I *guess* and someone else can confirm/deny they assume you're doing option (B)!?ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:43 pm I have a couple questions regarding paying taxes on redeemed I-Bonds. According to the Treasury Direct website, there are two options for reporting taxes:
(A) Report the interest every year on your federal income tax return
(B) Defer reporting the interest until the bond is redeemed (I prefer this method)
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... nsider.htm
My questions:
(1) Will I receive the 1099-INT form only when I cash out the I-Bonds, or every year I hold the I-Bonds? This video makes it seem like I may receive a 1099-INT every year (or maybe the user redeemed I-Bonds every year).
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/to ... 20)-CC.mp4
(2) When purchasing the I-Bonds, do I need to select which option I wish to implement?
Thanks in advance for the input. I plan on making my first purchase of I-Bonds in May and want to be prepared.
I will find out after January if the default is to defer taxes until redemption.
Best Regards - Mel |
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I read this in Mugatu's voice.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
Re: I Bonds variable rate @ 3.54% in May
Hooray!Mel Lindauer wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:19 amYou won't have to wait until Jan. Deferral of taxes is the default.ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:12 amWow... a blast from the past. It was only 6 months ago that I took the plunge into the world of I-Bonds. It feels like a lifetime ago. The pandemic does weird things to the perception time.Noobvestor wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:27 pmI can't recall if you have to select the option manually, but I do *not* get tax forms annually (am taking the deferred-tax approach). I *guess* and someone else can confirm/deny they assume you're doing option (B)!?ApeAttack wrote: ↑Tue Apr 20, 2021 5:43 pm I have a couple questions regarding paying taxes on redeemed I-Bonds. According to the Treasury Direct website, there are two options for reporting taxes:
(A) Report the interest every year on your federal income tax return
(B) Defer reporting the interest until the bond is redeemed (I prefer this method)
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/re ... nsider.htm
My questions:
(1) Will I receive the 1099-INT form only when I cash out the I-Bonds, or every year I hold the I-Bonds? This video makes it seem like I may receive a 1099-INT every year (or maybe the user redeemed I-Bonds every year).
https://www.treasurydirect.gov/indiv/to ... 20)-CC.mp4
(2) When purchasing the I-Bonds, do I need to select which option I wish to implement?
Thanks in advance for the input. I plan on making my first purchase of I-Bonds in May and want to be prepared.
I will find out after January if the default is to defer taxes until redemption.
May all your index funds gain +0.5% today.
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I believe you only get the 1099 after redeeming the bond, so tax deferral is the default.
As noted, they offer you to pay as you go each year, but it requires manual tracking and calculation since you do not get a form each year. And then when you do redeem the bond (potentially after multiple decades), it will still show the full amount on the 1099 and you need to remember to manually subtract out what was already paid. If you pay annually and die, good luck to any beneficiaries for correctly tracking this and not double taxing part of the bond redemption. Basically a giant pain to not do tax deferral.
As noted, they offer you to pay as you go each year, but it requires manual tracking and calculation since you do not get a form each year. And then when you do redeem the bond (potentially after multiple decades), it will still show the full amount on the 1099 and you need to remember to manually subtract out what was already paid. If you pay annually and die, good luck to any beneficiaries for correctly tracking this and not double taxing part of the bond redemption. Basically a giant pain to not do tax deferral.
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
I really appreciate you sharing this as I have been contemplating overpaying my taxes by $5K in December to get the IBonds...knowing what I do now from your experience will allow me to feel better about not doing it if I end up taking a pass...sigh, I don't think I'll be able to resist though!mall0c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am I have been buying ibonds for about ten years now and often take advantage of the tax refund method to get another $5k into the account. My personal experience with this transaction is that it can be quite stressful. They send you 12 paper bonds of varying denominations (6x$50, 1x$200, 1x$500, 4x$1k), each in a separate envelope. That is 12 opportunities for something to get lost. This year all my bonds but one showed up on the same day, guess which denomination was missing - on of the $1k bonds. Luckily 10 days later the missing $1k bond showed up. I figured for sure it was lost. Then you have to register them on TD and send them all back again. Luckily I have never actually had to get on the phone with the treasury and convince them to send me a new bond, but I fear that day will come someday. It makes me seriously consider every year whether I want to put myself through it again.
"Contentment", the only thing you ever truly need more of!
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Question on treasurydirect.gov.
I update my spreadsheet once a month using a script, which downloads all the transactions from various institutions. Is there a way to download transaction data from tresurydirect.gov or automate updating the balance?
I update my spreadsheet once a month using a script, which downloads all the transactions from various institutions. Is there a way to download transaction data from tresurydirect.gov or automate updating the balance?
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Or you can apply for iBonds for 4250 - then you get 4 * 1k bonds + 5*50 bonds. You can redeem the $50 bonds and keep the 1k ones.LukeHeinz57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:36 amI really appreciate you sharing this as I have been contemplating overpaying my taxes by $5K in December to get the IBonds...knowing what I do now from your experience will allow me to feel better about not doing it if I end up taking a pass...sigh, I don't think I'll be able to resist though!mall0c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am I have been buying ibonds for about ten years now and often take advantage of the tax refund method to get another $5k into the account. My personal experience with this transaction is that it can be quite stressful. They send you 12 paper bonds of varying denominations (6x$50, 1x$200, 1x$500, 4x$1k), each in a separate envelope. That is 12 opportunities for something to get lost. This year all my bonds but one showed up on the same day, guess which denomination was missing - on of the $1k bonds. Luckily 10 days later the missing $1k bond showed up. I figured for sure it was lost. Then you have to register them on TD and send them all back again. Luckily I have never actually had to get on the phone with the treasury and convince them to send me a new bond, but I fear that day will come someday. It makes me seriously consider every year whether I want to put myself through it again.
Personally I kept all 1K and $500 bonds. the rest go to nieces and nephews for birthday.
When in doubt, http://www.bogleheads.org/forum/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=79939
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
You don't have to register them at TD and send them in. You can simply keep them and redeem them at a local bank when you need money.LukeHeinz57 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 8:36 amI really appreciate you sharing this as I have been contemplating overpaying my taxes by $5K in December to get the IBonds...knowing what I do now from your experience will allow me to feel better about not doing it if I end up taking a pass...sigh, I don't think I'll be able to resist though!mall0c wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 7:37 am I have been buying ibonds for about ten years now and often take advantage of the tax refund method to get another $5k into the account. My personal experience with this transaction is that it can be quite stressful. They send you 12 paper bonds of varying denominations (6x$50, 1x$200, 1x$500, 4x$1k), each in a separate envelope. That is 12 opportunities for something to get lost. This year all my bonds but one showed up on the same day, guess which denomination was missing - on of the $1k bonds. Luckily 10 days later the missing $1k bond showed up. I figured for sure it was lost. Then you have to register them on TD and send them all back again. Luckily I have never actually had to get on the phone with the treasury and convince them to send me a new bond, but I fear that day will come someday. It makes me seriously consider every year whether I want to put myself through it again.
Don't make things any more complicated than necessary. Your paper bonds could sure come in handy when/if your TD account gets locked just when you need money.
As with all things investing - diversify!
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Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
How are you getting 2.05% for your rewards checking? Are you referring to a bonus after spending the money (more is possible via CC)? Is this amount limited, locked in, or have other hoops/gotchas?
The only better guaranteed returns I'm tracking are bonuses, which can be a PITA.
The only better guaranteed returns I'm tracking are bonuses, which can be a PITA.
k3vb0t wrote: ↑Sun Oct 17, 2021 7:09 pm All told though, we usually keep our emergency fund in our rewards checking account earning 2.05%... seems to be that even if long-term I-bond is supposed to have a 0% real return, that's better than what we're getting on the rewards checking account (which, with inflation, has a real negative return).
Re: I Bonds Mega Thread (I Bond Heads Rejoice!)
Nope, a straight 2.05% rewards checking account. Requires a certain number of debit card swipes per month, and is capped at $25k per account. Had it for... a long time. Probably a decade. Has worked well to hold emergency fund (compared to "high yield" savings accounts, CDs, etc.).Shorty wrote: ↑Tue Oct 19, 2021 12:14 pm How are you getting 2.05% for your rewards checking? Are you referring to a bonus after spending the money (more is possible via CC)? Is this amount limited, locked in, or have other hoops/gotchas?
The only better guaranteed returns I'm tracking are bonuses, which can be a PITA.