Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Discuss all general (i.e. non-personal) investing questions and issues, investing news, and theory.
Locked
vwgrrc
Posts: 122
Joined: Mon Jul 18, 2016 5:35 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by vwgrrc »

Aaand...it'sgone wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:39 pm
corp_sharecropper wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:53 am Anyone else have the problem that crypto gains have reached a level where they are a much larger slice of your AA?
My crypto allocation has gone from 3% up to 7% now (mostly etherium). So far, I'm just hodling, but I may feel differently if it starts getting above 10% of my AA. Though, I just staked my ether, so not much I can do about it for near-term.
Mine went up from 10% to almost 50% now. I'm waiting for the gain to be long-term before rebalancing. Hopefully it will crash back to 10% by then so I don't need to worry about it!
GP813
Posts: 1231
Joined: Wed Dec 11, 2019 9:11 am

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by GP813 »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm
GP813 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:37 am Why are there so many crypto threads on Bogleheads.org? There are 4 different threads on the front page of Investing - Theory, News & General.
I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money

What part of the Bogleheads tenets is currency trading? Isn't that basically what Crypto really amounts to but worse. Most currencies are at least backed by a government's ability to raise taxes, manage an economy, and promise to payback debts with reasonable certainty. Crypto is "backed" by a skepticism of government backed currencies, a vision of technological innovation(that anybody can copy since it's open source), some idealism if we're being fair but also huge support of technology titans who seek to undermine fiat and whose vision is more dystopian, and being an early/first adopter in the hope that somebody will pay more than you do as they also adopt the platform or chase some of your performance gains.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm
GP813 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:37 am Why are there so many crypto threads on Bogleheads.org? There are 4 different threads on the front page of Investing - Theory, News & General.
I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money
I wish there was a single ETF.

But in the meantime, I just made my own ‘index’ of 7 different coins / tokens.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Marseille07
Posts: 16054
Joined: Fri Nov 06, 2020 12:41 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by Marseille07 »

watchnerd wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm
GP813 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:37 am Why are there so many crypto threads on Bogleheads.org? There are 4 different threads on the front page of Investing - Theory, News & General.
I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money
I wish there was a single ETF.

But in the meantime, I just made my own ‘index’ of 7 different coins / tokens.
I'm surprised you got converted. Thought you didn't like crypto like a month ago.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

Marseille07 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:27 pm
watchnerd wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm

I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money
I wish there was a single ETF.

But in the meantime, I just made my own ‘index’ of 7 different coins / tokens.
I'm surprised you got converted. Thought you didn't like crypto like a month ago.
No conversion.

But it’s a large enough asset class that I can’t ignore it if I’m serious about investing in the tradeable market portfolio.

<2% isn’t exactly ‘all in’
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
User avatar
Orangutan
Posts: 309
Joined: Mon Feb 08, 2021 3:36 pm
Location: NYC

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by Orangutan »

watchnerd wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm
GP813 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:37 am Why are there so many crypto threads on Bogleheads.org? There are 4 different threads on the front page of Investing - Theory, News & General.
I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money
I wish there was a single ETF.

But in the meantime, I just made my own ‘index’ of 7 different coins / tokens.
Coins or tokens just sounds so shady/illegitimate in itself. I wish there were more “official” namings. It reminds me of Chuck-E-Cheese for some reason.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

watchnerd wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:33 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:27 pm
watchnerd wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 7:25 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm

I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money
I wish there was a single ETF.

But in the meantime, I just made my own ‘index’ of 7 different coins / tokens.
I'm surprised you got converted. Thought you didn't like crypto like a month ago.
No conversion.

But it’s a large enough asset class that I can’t ignore it if I’m serious about investing in the tradeable market portfolio.

<2% isn’t exactly ‘all in’
Well, it seems you went through at least a small conversion :) We all went through the same process at some point: at first we think it's just a fad/joke/scam/whatever, and then eventually realize it's an actual asset class with real value, some of it truly productive. I know I thought it was just a ridiculous fad when I first learned of it in 2010 or 2011 from gamer friends...
Prahasaurus
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:02 am

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by Prahasaurus »

Aaand...it'sgone wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:39 pm
corp_sharecropper wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:53 am Anyone else have the problem that crypto gains have reached a level where they are a much larger slice of your AA?
My crypto allocation has gone from 3% up to 7% now (mostly etherium). So far, I'm just hodling, but I may feel differently if it starts getting above 10% of my AA. Though, I just staked my ether, so not much I can do about it for near-term.
Congrats. I think it's one of the best investments you'll ever make. Staking is also smart, besides earning interest on your ETH, it prevents you from doing something unwise (selling).

Just wait until EIP 1559 goes live in July, and later in 2021 (December?) we move to Proof of Stake.
Asset Allocation: VT
GR8FUL-D
Posts: 155
Joined: Wed May 30, 2018 12:14 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by GR8FUL-D »

Prahasaurus wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:53 am
Aaand...it'sgone wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:39 pm
corp_sharecropper wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:53 am Anyone else have the problem that crypto gains have reached a level where they are a much larger slice of your AA?
My crypto allocation has gone from 3% up to 7% now (mostly etherium). So far, I'm just hodling, but I may feel differently if it starts getting above 10% of my AA. Though, I just staked my ether, so not much I can do about it for near-term.
Congrats. I think it's one of the best investments you'll ever make. Staking is also smart, besides earning interest on your ETH, it prevents you from doing something unwise (selling).

Just wait until EIP 1559 goes live in July, and later in 2021 (December?) we move to Proof of Stake.
How confident are you that these things will happen at these dates, especially Proof of Stake? I thought the latter was a big unknown.
Prahasaurus
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:02 am

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by Prahasaurus »

GR8FUL-D wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 9:37 am
Prahasaurus wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 12:53 am
Aaand...it'sgone wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 2:39 pm
corp_sharecropper wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 11:53 am Anyone else have the problem that crypto gains have reached a level where they are a much larger slice of your AA?
My crypto allocation has gone from 3% up to 7% now (mostly etherium). So far, I'm just hodling, but I may feel differently if it starts getting above 10% of my AA. Though, I just staked my ether, so not much I can do about it for near-term.
Congrats. I think it's one of the best investments you'll ever make. Staking is also smart, besides earning interest on your ETH, it prevents you from doing something unwise (selling).

Just wait until EIP 1559 goes live in July, and later in 2021 (December?) we move to Proof of Stake.
How confident are you that these things will happen at these dates, especially Proof of Stake? I thought the latter was a big unknown.
Highly confident in EIP 1559 for July. Hopeful for Proof of Stake by year end. It's an incredibly complex process, something that has never been done before on this scale. I'm confident it will happen, but we'll have to see on dates. When it does, hopefully by end of 2021, the impact on the token will be, I believe, explosive.
Asset Allocation: VT
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 pm Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
Sweet Christmas, that's a rout!

I hope that poster who has $500k of Doge got out in time....
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

watchnerd wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:08 pm
decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 pm Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
Sweet Christmas, that's a rout!

I hope that poster who has $500k of Doge got out in time....
People unable to sell DOGE on Robinhood...my goodness. I don't know how anyone can continue to use RH. Dogecoin holders on RH could be completely wiped out in a few hours if this continues
Prahasaurus
Posts: 1028
Joined: Fri Mar 29, 2019 1:02 am

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by Prahasaurus »

decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:23 pm
watchnerd wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:08 pm
decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 pm Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
Sweet Christmas, that's a rout!

I hope that poster who has $500k of Doge got out in time....
People unable to sell DOGE on Robinhood...my goodness. I don't know how anyone can continue to use RH. Dogecoin holders on RH could be completely wiped out in a few hours if this continues
Robinhood is just terrible and I can't understand why anyone would use that platform. The GME scandal was the canary in the coal mine. And with crypto, you cannot self custody your coins, you must leave it at Robinhood at sell back to USD. Crypto investors should avoid RH like the plague. It's not hard to open a Coinbase account!
Asset Allocation: VT
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

Prahasaurus wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm

Robinhood is just terrible and I can't understand why anyone would use that platform. The GME scandal was the canary in the coal mine. And with crypto, you cannot self custody your coins, you must leave it at Robinhood at sell back to USD. Crypto investors should avoid RH like the plague. It's not hard to open a Coinbase account!
It's not just terrible, it's predatory.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
langlands
Posts: 1093
Joined: Wed Apr 03, 2019 10:05 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by langlands »

watchnerd wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:50 pm
Prahasaurus wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:40 pm

Robinhood is just terrible and I can't understand why anyone would use that platform. The GME scandal was the canary in the coal mine. And with crypto, you cannot self custody your coins, you must leave it at Robinhood at sell back to USD. Crypto investors should avoid RH like the plague. It's not hard to open a Coinbase account!
It's not just terrible, it's predatory.
It's very strange. Since GME happened, Robinhood has continued gaining customer assets. I guess there's no such thing as bad publicity. It's kind of amazing how much some people value the UI experience of the app that controls their finances. I bet the graphics designers at Robinhood are the ones making the big bucks.
hilink73
Posts: 588
Joined: Tue Sep 20, 2016 3:29 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by hilink73 »

GP813 wrote: Fri May 07, 2021 6:29 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:12 pm
txhill wrote: Thu May 06, 2021 5:00 pm
Marseille07 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 12:35 pm
GP813 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 10:37 am Why are there so many crypto threads on Bogleheads.org? There are 4 different threads on the front page of Investing - Theory, News & General.
I agree. I sometimes wonder if I'm visiting Bogleheads or Cryptoheads.
I'm all in favor of crypto but I agree there are too many individual threads. That said, if any investment had been outperforming the market for a decade (as crypto has done), I'd want it to be discussed heavily. That sort of performance, if sustained, could mean what constitutes the "market" may have changed, which may require a true Boglehead to adjust their allocation.
I thought one of the key tenets of Bogleheads is diversification. Do we have an ETF that holds top 20 crypto by market cap or something along those lines? Until then, I don't see how owning a particular flavor of crypto would ever enter the conversation of Bogleheads in a serious manner.

It seems increasingly obvious that:
a) there's no utility in crypto
b) people keep throwing monies nonetheless, therefore the prices are actually rising and some people are making money

What part of the Bogleheads tenets is currency trading? Isn't that basically what Crypto really amounts to but worse. Most currencies are at least backed by a government's ability to raise taxes, manage an economy, and promise to payback debts with reasonable certainty. Crypto is "backed" by a skepticism of government backed currencies, a vision of technological innovation(that anybody can copy since it's open source), some idealism if we're being fair but also huge support of technology titans who seek to undermine fiat and whose vision is more dystopian, and being an early/first adopter in the hope that somebody will pay more than you do as they also adopt the platform or chase some of your performance gains.
Which "cryptos" do consider themselves as currency (replacement)?

Speaking of Ethereum, for example, I don't think it's meant to be a currency. So buying ETH isn't currency trading, I suppose.


Edited to add: maybe this helps to clear up some confusion.

https://www.blockchaincenter.net/market-cap-dominance/

-------------------------

Side remark

Also, some posters just want to argue against "crypto" instead of having a differentiated discussion, it seems.
Proof along these lines on this forum:
Them: "I do not invest in something I don't understand."
Also them: keeps "discussing" crypto although they don't understand.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:23 pm
watchnerd wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 11:08 pm
decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 pm Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
Sweet Christmas, that's a rout!

I hope that poster who has $500k of Doge got out in time....
People unable to sell DOGE on Robinhood...my goodness. I don't know how anyone can continue to use RH. Dogecoin holders on RH could be completely wiped out in a few hours if this continues
Robinhood is predatory. I didn’t catch SNL last night but I guess it was the equivalent of a company’s 10-Q reporting lower earnings than expected... but I have to admit Doge seems to have a stronger base of support than I’d expect. Definitely behaves a lot like GameStop with its own cult following.
User avatar
JoMoney
Posts: 16260
Joined: Tue Jul 23, 2013 5:31 am

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by JoMoney »

decapod10 wrote: Sat May 08, 2021 10:54 pm Dogecoin holders did not like Elon's SNL monologue I guess.
Maybe they were hoping he'd hype it up more like a good crypto salesman. He didn't say much of any account, there was a joke to his mom about giving her doge as her Mothers day gift, and a skit during 'weekend update' where they keep trying to get him to explain "What is dogecoin?" where after several failed techno-babble explanations they all agree on the explanation "It's a Hustle".
"To achieve satisfactory investment results is easier than most people realize; to achieve superior results is harder than it looks." - Benjamin Graham
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

txhill wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:28 am Robinhood is predatory. I didn’t catch SNL last night but I guess it was the equivalent of a company’s 10-Q reporting lower earnings than expected... but I have to admit Doge seems to have a stronger base of support than I’d expect. Definitely behaves a lot like GameStop with its own cult following.
Doge 7d: +27%
Doge 24h: -31%

If you got into Doge in the last week, you've lost money.

Will it have staying power if the media gets bored of talking about it?
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

watchnerd wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 10:21 am
txhill wrote: Sun May 09, 2021 8:28 am Robinhood is predatory. I didn’t catch SNL last night but I guess it was the equivalent of a company’s 10-Q reporting lower earnings than expected... but I have to admit Doge seems to have a stronger base of support than I’d expect. Definitely behaves a lot like GameStop with its own cult following.
Doge 7d: +27%
Doge 24h: -31%

If you got into Doge in the last week, you've lost money.

Will it have staying power if the media gets bored of talking about it?
No clue. Doge has had two big spikes—- on 4/20 and Elon on SNL. Just takes another ridiculous event for it to go up again. I’m not touching it but it is fascinating.
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
User avatar
OohLaLa
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:26 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by OohLaLa »

decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
He didn't accept them. The SHIB founders sent half the supply to his wallet address and tried to profit from Vitalik's solid reputation ("look, we won't do a rug pull because Vitalik has 50% of the supply!"). I think other scamcoins were doing something similar too. So he's showing that scams can't take advantage of his name, which is better in the long run although plenty of folks who bought SHIB are now inadvertent donors to India covid relief funds.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:17 pm
OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
I don't think I agree. Scamcoins are bad for the ecosystem and scamcoin founders were taking advantage of Vitalik's reputation to profit for themselves. Hopefully people are learning from this.
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:17 pm
OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
Maybe that's true, looks like he only sold 10% of his holdings though. He is still holding 45%... to be honest, any move he made would have dropped Shiba's price because people assumed that the supply was essentially "burned". Even if he just sold a little bit, it would have dropped because now people know that his supply is live. That being said, there is a reason you should be very careful about investing in crypto when the holdings are highly concentrated, for this exact reason.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:21 pm

I don't think I agree. Scamcoins are bad for the ecosystem and scamcoin founders were taking advantage of Vitalik's reputation to profit for themselves. Hopefully people are learning from this.
Then say something.

Call it a scam.

Let people make their own decisions.

Tell people that you intend to donate this to charity and give them, whatever, 48 hours to decide what to do.

Rug pulls are just bad ethics.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:28 pm
txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:21 pm

I don't think I agree. Scamcoins are bad for the ecosystem and scamcoin founders were taking advantage of Vitalik's reputation to profit for themselves. Hopefully people are learning from this.
Then say something.

Call it a scam.

Let people make their own decisions.

Tell people that you intend to donate this to charity and give them, whatever, 48 hours to decide what to do.

Rug pulls are just bad ethics.
Maybe he basically is making an announcement by only doing this with 10% of his SHIB (if what decapod said is accurate). Just showing that the market should not think of half the supply as illiquid.
qwerty123
Posts: 232
Joined: Thu Jun 26, 2014 7:44 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by qwerty123 »

OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:08 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:07 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:06 pm Vitalik just sold $1B worth of Shiba Inu and donated it to the India Covid relief fund, lol. Good for Vitalik and Covid relief, bad for Shiba Inu owners.
Wow.

Does it count as a rug pull if you donate to charity?
Definitely counts as a rug pull, but they probably had it coming. I doubt Vitalik appreciates being used for marketing of your meme coin. I will say the more I read about Vitalik, the higher I regard him as a person.
Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
I don't think he accepted them though. Whoever made SHIB transferred half to Vitalik. He had no choice in the matter. If I were in his shoes, I'd happily either sell them all or donate them all. He didn't ask to be used as marketing, and didn't ask for the tokens. He can do whatever he wants with them. Donating them is awesome of him, and a great way to somewhat give the finger to those that sent them to him.
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 pm
Maybe he basically is making an announcement by only doing this with 10% of his SHIB (if what decapod said is accurate). Just showing that the market should not think of half the supply as illiquid.
If this his idea of effective communication, I'm not impressed.

It strikes me as juvenile.

My impression of Etherium's future just went down a few notches.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
User avatar
OohLaLa
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:26 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by OohLaLa »

decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:24 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:17 pm
OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
Maybe that's true, looks like he only sold 10% of his holdings though. He is still holding 45%... to be honest, any move he made would have dropped Shiba's price because people assumed that the supply was essentially "burned". Even if he just sold a little bit, it would have dropped because now people know that his supply is live. That being said, there is a reason you should be very careful about investing in crypto when the holdings are highly concentrated, for this exact reason.
1- From this, I learned that crypto is a clusterf when it comes to transaction processing. The idea that you can send money to anybody without them knowing or having any say is ridiculous. On top of this, Burin had no way to resend the funds back to the source address/ wallet (no matter the result, simply to get rid of it)?

2- Like you said, it's not really burned in the traditional lingo, if someone can spend it.

3- By dumping, he isn't necessarily punishing the creators... but definitely anybody who bought in at the peak. Don't see why you can't trickle it out, if the idea is to donate it. Ironically (considering it's being donated), I still think it's a bad look for Burin + ETH to approach it in this particular way.
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:28 pm
txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:21 pm

I don't think I agree. Scamcoins are bad for the ecosystem and scamcoin founders were taking advantage of Vitalik's reputation to profit for themselves. Hopefully people are learning from this.
Then say something.

Call it a scam.

Let people make their own decisions.

Tell people that you intend to donate this to charity and give them, whatever, 48 hours to decide what to do.

Rug pulls are just bad ethics.
Maybe he basically is making an announcement by only doing this with 10% of his SHIB (if what decapod said is accurate). Just showing that the market should not think of half the supply as illiquid.
Looks like he didn't actually sell the Shiba coins.

1,000,000,000,000,000 SHIB is the total supply
500,000,000,000,000 is Vitalik's share
50,693,552,078,053 SHIB directly to the COVID fund. He didn't actually sell anything. He should still own 450 trillion coins
User avatar
OohLaLa
Posts: 459
Joined: Tue Mar 09, 2021 7:26 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by OohLaLa »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:34 pm
txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 pm
Maybe he basically is making an announcement by only doing this with 10% of his SHIB (if what decapod said is accurate). Just showing that the market should not think of half the supply as illiquid.
If this his idea of effective communication, I'm not impressed.

It strikes me as juvenile.

My impression of Etherium's future just went down a few notches.
Yup, that's what I'm trying to convey as well: not everyone who likes ETH, and probably holds ETH, will see this as a good move.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:34 pm
txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:31 pm
Maybe he basically is making an announcement by only doing this with 10% of his SHIB (if what decapod said is accurate). Just showing that the market should not think of half the supply as illiquid.
If this his idea of effective communication, I'm not impressed.

It strikes me as juvenile.

My impression of Etherium's future just went down a few notches.
I guess I see your point although I draw the opposite conclusion. It is true though that ethereum is not fully decentralized in the way that bitcoin is; ethereum is still quite tied to Vitalik and his reputation.
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:36 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:24 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:17 pm
OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
Maybe that's true, looks like he only sold 10% of his holdings though. He is still holding 45%... to be honest, any move he made would have dropped Shiba's price because people assumed that the supply was essentially "burned". Even if he just sold a little bit, it would have dropped because now people know that his supply is live. That being said, there is a reason you should be very careful about investing in crypto when the holdings are highly concentrated, for this exact reason.
1- From this, I learned that crypto is a clusterf when it comes to transaction processing. The idea that you can send money to anybody without them knowing or having any say is ridiculous. On top of this, Burin had no way to resend the funds back to the source address/ wallet (no matter the result, simply to get rid of it)?

2- Like you said, it's not really burned in the traditional lingo, if someone can spend it.

3- By dumping, he isn't necessarily punishing the creators... but definitely anybody who bought in at the peak. Don't see why you can't trickle it out, if the idea is to donate it. Ironically (considering it's being donated), I still think it's a bad look for Burin + ETH to approach it in this particular way.
1) Yes, there is no way to block incoming transactions. Right now it is not a major problem because of gas fees, but wallet spam could be a problem in the future

3) He didn't actually sell it, he donated it directly to the Covid relief fund, but yes people buying in will be affected negatively for sure. Though I suspect they would have burned no matter what he did most likely
Last edited by decapod10 on Wed May 12, 2021 2:42 pm, edited 2 times in total.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:36 pm
decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:24 pm
watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:17 pm
OohLaLa wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:14 pm Then why did he accept half of the generated SHIB coins? Taking that on and dumping, whatever the reason, might turn against him and the Ethereum project.

Really bad idea to make big moves like this.
It's a d-bag move.

"Not appreciating" something doesn't give you a right to intentionally burn people just because you're annoyed.
Maybe that's true, looks like he only sold 10% of his holdings though. He is still holding 45%... to be honest, any move he made would have dropped Shiba's price because people assumed that the supply was essentially "burned". Even if he just sold a little bit, it would have dropped because now people know that his supply is live. That being said, there is a reason you should be very careful about investing in crypto when the holdings are highly concentrated, for this exact reason.
1- From this, I learned that crypto is a clusterf when it comes to transaction processing. The idea that you can send money to anybody without them knowing or having any say is ridiculous. On top of this, Burin had no way to resend the funds back to the source address/ wallet (no matter the result, simply to get rid of it)?

2- Like you said, it's not really burned in the traditional lingo, if someone can spend it.

3- By dumping, he isn't necessarily punishing the creators... but definitely anybody who bought in at the peak. Don't see why you can't trickle it out, if the idea is to donate it. Ironically (considering it's being donated), I still think it's a bad look for Burin + ETH to approach it in this particular way.
If Vitalik burned the SHIB (he could do this by sending to a made-up address, for example, which would cause it to be lost forever) then it'd be his way of conferring legitimacy to a scamcoin. Even just holding onto the SHIB without moving it would lend legitimacy to the SHIB approach. That would hurt his reputation in the long run, in my view (although I guess you and others might see it differently).
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

watchnerd wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:28 pm
txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:21 pm

I don't think I agree. Scamcoins are bad for the ecosystem and scamcoin founders were taking advantage of Vitalik's reputation to profit for themselves. Hopefully people are learning from this.
Then say something.

Call it a scam.

Let people make their own decisions.

Tell people that you intend to donate this to charity and give them, whatever, 48 hours to decide what to do.

Rug pulls are just bad ethics.
Announcing that you are going to start giving away your tokens in 48 hours and just giving them away now would have almost the same effect IMO
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

txhill wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:40 pm

If Vitalik burned the SHIB (he could do this by sending to a made-up address, for example, which would cause it to be lost forever) then it'd be his way of conferring legitimacy to a scamcoin. Even just holding onto the SHIB without moving it would lend legitimacy to the SHIB approach. That would hurt his reputation in the long run, in my view (although I guess you and others might see it differently).
I'm not seeing the kind of character traits I want in a leader of a powerful software platform trying to position itself as an alternative to CeFi.

I can see someone in the SEC saying:

"How can we make an ETF for these things with these kind of cowboy actions from the founder one of the largest pools of wealth on the planet?

Is this something you really want to expose the retail public to?"
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
User avatar
watchnerd
Posts: 13609
Joined: Sat Mar 03, 2007 10:18 am
Location: Gig Harbor, WA, USA

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by watchnerd »

decapod10 wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:46 pm

Announcing that you are going to start giving away your tokens in 48 hours and just giving them away now would have almost the same effect IMO
But the message plays out differently.

He needs to think beyond his crypto culture zone.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
User avatar
HomerJ
Posts: 21246
Joined: Fri Jun 06, 2008 12:50 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by HomerJ »

I'm confused why he didn't give it all away.

What message is he actually trying to convey?
"The best tools available to us are shovels, not scalpels. Don't get carried away." - vanBogle59
flyfishers83
Posts: 407
Joined: Fri Jun 07, 2019 6:08 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by flyfishers83 »

The whole thing is pretty bizarre. The idea of buying legitimacy by transferring a whole bunch of coins to somebody is weird to begin with. Maybe giving away coins is something I just haven't been aware of and is a way you get a bunch of people to push a new coin with minimal costs involved.

I imagine his taxes are going to be rather complicated.
Last edited by flyfishers83 on Wed May 12, 2021 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
decapod10
Posts: 1166
Joined: Thu Dec 28, 2017 5:46 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by decapod10 »

HomerJ wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 2:54 pm I'm confused why he didn't give it all away.

What message is he actually trying to convey?
Well, I guess the thought process would be this:

1) Do I hold the coins forever or burn the coins? If the answer is no then

2) How do I get rid of the coins? My opinion is once you have made the decision to give them away or sell them, there is really no method that will prevent losses to Shiba holders at that point. Maybe he felt that giving away 10% of his coins was the best balance between minimizing the effect on the market.

Edit: I removed the comment about liquidity, it's not clear that he was actually providing liquidity in the first place. I would guess actually that he was not.
txhill
Posts: 628
Joined: Tue Mar 16, 2021 12:27 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by txhill »

India Covid Relief Fund's response:

https://twitter.com/CryptoRelief_/statu ... 7764962304
User avatar
danbdzs
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by danbdzs »

Tesla no longer accepts Bitcoin as payment!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/139 ... 43203?s=20


That was a quick change!
chinchin
Posts: 818
Joined: Tue Nov 14, 2017 7:02 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by chinchin »

danbdzs wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:09 pm Tesla no longer accepts Bitcoin as payment!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/139 ... 43203?s=20


That was a quick change!
Bullish for ETH?
not financial advice
User avatar
danbdzs
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by danbdzs »

Ohh maaan,

Going by Matt Levine's Elon Market Hypothesis (The Elon markets hypothesis says “that things are valuable not based on their cash flows but on their proximity to Elon Musk.” ) we should see some volatility
User avatar
danbdzs
Posts: 90
Joined: Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:29 pm

Re: Cryptocurrency in Free Fall

Post by danbdzs »

chinchin wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:11 pm
danbdzs wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:09 pm Tesla no longer accepts Bitcoin as payment!

https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/139 ... 43203?s=20


That was a quick change!
Bullish for ETH?
Does ETH use < 1% of bitcoin's energy per transaction?
If it doesn't, then its potentially bearish IMO.
Maybe with the innovation in ETH it can be bullish longer term, but I've no idea other than the buzz words thrown around here and there
Locked