peppers wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:19 am
Are mobile apps safer than web based applications?
I am genuinely curious and hope some IT professionals might weigh in.
Both have there individual inherent risks. I would argue both are as equally safe or as equally risky as the end user permits. On mobile, ensure you verify where you download any application from, don't blindly trust the app store and secure your phone accordingly (encrypt your data, set passwords, restrict application permissions, keep phone updated etc). Using web, same concepts apply, don't view your account from public computers or over wireless networks you do not personally own without a VPN at a minimum.
If you follow basic security best practices, I wouldn't fear using either methods. In fact I personally use both my phone and my computer to bank as needed.
Full disclosure: 12-year cyber security professional.
peppers wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 8:19 am
Are mobile apps safer than web based applications?
I am genuinely curious and hope some IT professionals might weigh in.
Both have there individual inherent risks. I would argue both are as equally safe or as equally risky as the end user permits. On mobile, ensure you verify where you download any application from, don't blindly trust the app store and secure your phone accordingly (encrypt your data, set passwords, restrict application permissions, keep phone updated etc). Using web, same concepts apply, don't view your account from public computers or over wireless networks you do not personally own without a VPN at a minimum.
If you follow basic security best practices, I wouldn't fear using either methods. In fact I personally use both my phone and my computer to bank as needed.
Full disclosure: 12-year cyber security professional.
Thank you for your reply.
I was prompted to ask the question because my bank, insurance and investment companies have been emailing me about downloading their apps to my ios device.
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
I would have a hard time recommending Vanguard to anyone with its completely ugly UX. Never underrate the importance of a clean UX. These overdue changes make it a much easier decision.
I just signed up here bc I need to vent about the Vanguard website. It is so opaque and unhelpful when compared to fidelity's. The first thing I see at fidelity is how much my account is up or down at a given time, and the amount I'm up or down in each holding. Also there is a wonderful chart. At vanguard I'm given the amount a share is up or down and expected to calculate how much my holdings in that stock are up or down? Huh? We are visual beings, This doesn't work for me! Furthermore, to find out if my account is up or down for the day I have to go to another part of the website and check the amount that the account was at at the close of the prior day and write out the math to determine the gain or loss. I thought vanguard was supposed to be "for the people." If you're supposed to be encouraging a wide swath of folks to invest and they may not have much experience, how can you excuse such formatting? Go Fidelity! Furious I ever started an account with Vanguard.
I just signed up here bc I need to vent about the Vanguard website. It is so opaque and unhelpful when compared to fidelity's. The first thing I see at fidelity is how much my account is up or down at a given time, and the amount I'm up or down in each holding. Also there is a wonderful chart. At vanguard I'm given the amount a share is up or down and expected to calculate how much my holdings in that stock are up or down? Huh? We are visual beings, This doesn't work for me! Furthermore, to find out if my account is up or down for the day I have to go to another part of the website and check the amount that the account was at at the close of the prior day and write out the math to determine the gain or loss. I thought vanguard was supposed to be "for the people." If you're supposed to be encouraging a wide swath of folks to invest and they may not have much experience, how can you excuse such formatting? Go Fidelity! Furious I ever started an account with Vanguard.
I only have the mutual fund platform so I probably can't judge, but I'd say Vanguard is "for the people" who don't care whether a position is up, down, or unchanged over a day or two. I have a brokerage account at Fidelity and honestly for everything I do (and I do actually do trades/exchanges at Vanguard daily) the websites are pretty similar in functionality.
I just signed up here bc I need to vent about the Vanguard website. It is so opaque and unhelpful when compared to fidelity's. The first thing I see at fidelity is how much my account is up or down at a given time, and the amount I'm up or down in each holding. Also there is a wonderful chart. At vanguard I'm given the amount a share is up or down and expected to calculate how much my holdings in that stock are up or down? Huh? We are visual beings, This doesn't work for me! Furthermore, to find out if my account is up or down for the day I have to go to another part of the website and check the amount that the account was at at the close of the prior day and write out the math to determine the gain or loss. I thought vanguard was supposed to be "for the people." If you're supposed to be encouraging a wide swath of folks to invest and they may not have much experience, how can you excuse such formatting? Go Fidelity! Furious I ever started an account with Vanguard.
If you are that unhappy, complaining about it on Bogleheads will not help your situation. There are other brokers and mutual fund companies that may be more to your liking. You should deal with companies that meet your needs.
UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm
Yes, Fidelity has a better website, but Vanguard has better funds. Which do you consider to be more important?
In a world of zero commission ETFs I know which I'd choose, and fully understand not everyone wants ETFs.
Perhaps it is what you are used to. I find the Fidelity website less intuitive than Vanguard. My fear is that all of these websites are trying to optimize for mobile users, at the expense of desktop users like myself. As I’m a slow learner at this point in my life, and find this trend somewhat challenging, but it’s inevitable, no sense complaining about it.
UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm
Yes, Fidelity has a better website, but Vanguard has better funds. Which do you consider to be more important?
I'd buy Vanguard ETFs at Fidelity. There's no reason to choose.
UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:58 pm
Yes, Fidelity has a better website, but Vanguard has better funds. Which do you consider to be more important?
So why not just invest in Vanguard funds within a Fidelity brokerage account?
I am not a lawyer, accountant or financial advisor. Any advice or suggestions that I may provide shall be considered for entertainment purposes only.
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:57 pm
I just logged on today. Haven't done in quite a while.
Upper right corner has "Last logon: Thursday, April 08, 2021 02:24 AM ET".
No way Jose. I was dead asleep at that time and no-one else has my login credentials.
Should we all be concerned about a data breach?????
I just logged on to test it. I was logged in earlier today and it says the last log in was yesterday. Apparently it is not accurate.
FYI, the "Last logon" part on the VG website is clickable. By clicking on it, you'll see a popup window that says:
Last logon shows the last time your account was accessed with your user name and password from a computer or mobile device.
If you use financial software (such as Quicken or Microsoft Money), tax preparation software (such as TurboTax® OnlineSM),or aggregation software (such as Quicken or Yodlee), your last logon date and time may reflect when that software accessed your Vanguard accounts.
Contact us if you suspect that the last logon date and time displayed don't match the last time you (or a software program) logged on.
So Doc and/or sport I think you should contact them and let us know what they say
I just signed up here bc I need to vent about the Vanguard website. It is so opaque and unhelpful when compared to fidelity's. The first thing I see at fidelity is how much my account is up or down at a given time, and the amount I'm up or down in each holding. Also there is a wonderful chart. At vanguard I'm given the amount a share is up or down and expected to calculate how much my holdings in that stock are up or down? Huh? We are visual beings, This doesn't work for me! Furthermore, to find out if my account is up or down for the day I have to go to another part of the website and check the amount that the account was at at the close of the prior day and write out the math to determine the gain or loss. I thought vanguard was supposed to be "for the people." If you're supposed to be encouraging a wide swath of folks to invest and they may not have much experience, how can you excuse such formatting? Go Fidelity! Furious I ever started an account with Vanguard.
If you are that unhappy, complaining about it on Bogleheads will not help your situation. There are other brokers and mutual fund companies that may be more to your liking. You should deal with companies that meet your needs.
I never really thought of Vanguard as a brokerage, just for funds. My record with them goes back to 1985. Yes, they’ve changed, and not even that recently with offerings of other funds, etc. If I really wanted to trade funds, stocks, etc. I wouldn’t even think of doing so at Vanguard, I’d go to a brokerage, not a mutual fund company...who now wants to be a brokerage.
Using M1 Finance for technology, app, and functionality with no cost for auto re-balancing by robo to allocation.
Using Vanguard ETF funds to mirror Target Date Fund asset allocations.
"Nothing in this world can take the place of persistence; Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent." |
-Calvin Coolidge
Eagle33 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 10, 2021 11:21 am
Change your password and check your personal info to see if anything was changed. Then contact VG and let us know what they say.
UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:29 pm
Vanguard has no idea when you last logged on. I've never found their "last logged in" info to be correct
I get false website "breech reports" several times a week. If I changed my password on every occurrence I would never have time to do anything else.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 3:29 pm
Vanguard has no idea when you last logged on. I've never found their "last logged in" info to be correct.
They DEFINITELY know when you last logged in. There may be a bug displaying it in the correct timezone or whatever on the site, but they know precisely when you logged in. It's always been correct for me. If yours is continuously incorrect and you can't account for the other logins, that would concern me. But 100% guaranteed they know.
Doc wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:57 pm
I just logged on today. Haven't done in quite a while.
Upper right corner has "Last logon: Thursday, April 08, 2021 02:24 AM ET".
No way Jose. I was dead asleep at that time and no-one else has my login credentials.
Should we all be concerned about a data breach?????
Change your password and check your personal info to see if anything was changed. Then contact VG and let us know what they say.
Do you have your accounts linked to any other website? Like mint or personal capital? Those kinds of websites will often trigger the last log on indicator. And they will often refresh overnight staring non busy hours.
runninginvestor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:20 am
Do you have your accounts linked to any other website? Like mint or personal capital? Those kinds of websites will often trigger the last log on indicator. And they will often refresh overnight staring non busy hours.
Question not addressed to me but I do have other software that triggers access to Vanguard and other brokers. TurboTax and Quicken come immediately to mind. And I can identify on Vanguard's site when these occurred and verify the timing.
But they do not operate on their own. I have to initiate the access and I never do that in the middle of the night yet Vg was showing middle of the night accesses. Also during the period that I had the erroneous logins Quicken was sometimes unable to access Vanguard's site. Related problem?
And the erroneous logins are not a time zone effect.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
runninginvestor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:20 am
Do you have your accounts linked to any other website? Like mint or personal capital? Those kinds of websites will often trigger the last log on indicator. And they will often refresh overnight staring non busy hours.
Question not addressed to me but I do have other software that triggers access to Vanguard and other brokers. TurboTax and Quicken come immediately to mind. And I can identify on Vanguard's site when these occurred and verify the timing.
But they do not operate on their own. I have to initiate the access and I never do that in the middle of the night yet Vg was showing middle of the night accesses. Also during the period that I had the erroneous logins Quicken was sometimes unable to access Vanguard's site. Related problem?
And the erroneous logins are not a time zone effect.
I finally found vanguard's brief description on it. They don't specify, but I'd be curious how vanguard counts logins if you have multiple Vanguard accounts, since they could theoretically be updating among themselves overnight. for example, settlement, fund transfers usually finalize overnight based on my past chats with vanguard. So I wonder if account logins get triggered between vanguard accounts for portfolio watch and balance totals.
I know Mint will automatically update once per day, sometimes every 8 hours (as well as update when you log in). I would double check Quicken and Turbotax's policies.
Doc wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:24 pmfor example, settlement, fund transfers usually finalize overnight based on my past chats with vanguard.
runninginvestor wrote: ↑Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:20 am wrote:
Do you have your accounts linked to any other website? Like mint or personal capital? Those kinds of websites will often trigger the last log on indicator. And they will often refresh overnight staring non busy hours.
Ahah! Maybe. There was a pull from one of our banks to Vanguard during the period I noticed the "weird" logins. The timing of these is not consistent and the pull and withdrawal might even post on different days.
More likely Schwab also updates our Vanguard account data overnight on our account at Schwab.
A scientist looks for THE answer to a problem, an engineer looks for AN answer and lawyers ONLY have opinions. Investing is not a science.
Having both Vanguard and Fidelity accounts, I am constantly hoping that Vanguard will catch up. Recently, they finally added how many shares of a stock you currently own when you click the button to sell. That’s helpful.
Some nitpicks:
- You cannot see an update on prices until 9:50EST, 20 minutes after the market opens. Fidelity begins when the market opens.
- Vanguard does not show percentage gains/losses, only dollar amounts. Fidelity shows gains in both percentages and dollar gains/losses, and lets you sort by either.
- No sorting in Vanguard, period. Not by name, symbol, gain...
I am not a frequent trader and I mostly own index funds, so the above are not dealbreakers but mere frustrations. I do have individual stock shares.
These are things I would vote for the next time Vanguard asks for feedback.
The Vanguard website leaves a lot to be desired. Three examples come to mind. 1) In order to keep track of my ETF's daily and long-term performance, I've had to create and use an account in Yahoo Finance. To do this, I have to maintain a copy of my transactions in that account. 2) Vanguard recently changed the format of its employee retirement and savings plan. I am no longer able to view a transaction table such as the ones that can be seen by clicking on "Transaction history" in the usual brokerage accounts. Instead, one is initially presented with a nebulous assortment of selections that are anything but clear. Once one manages to reach what I will loosely refer to as a transaction table, one is forced to see only contributions by each pay period... useless for long term financial planning. If one wants to see the full set of data in a tabular fashion, one has to first create a filter by period and funds in order to download a CSV table that resembles what one sees when simply selecting "Transactio history" on any normal brokerage account. Only then can one manipulate the data to one's liking. The main difference, of course, is that, in the brokerage accounts, one can sort the data by date or funds without performing a download. Not so in the employee plan. And 3), instead of buying or selling ETF's using only one webpage as was previously done, one now has to navigate two or three screens.
In my humble opinion, the changes I've seen to the investment website have each been worse that the previous. Although I'v left feedback, I never hear from anyone and I've never seen any of my suggestions implemented. Surely, I'm not the only one to feel like this.
wondering why are they changing the ETF page? (and similar pages I assume)
On the original page all the data is aggregated into a single table which is easy to browse/compare/analyze (snip below). The 'new' site you have to click on tabs to get the same info, to me its definitely a step backwards as you have to keep clicking back/forth to view/compare/analyze information. Not a fan but see no way to give feedback (?) or retain the original site.
F150HD wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:14 am
wondering why are they changing the ETF page? (and similar pages I assume)
On the original page all the data is aggregated into a single table which is easy to browse/compare/analyze (snip below). The 'new' site you have to click on tabs to get the same info, to me its definitely a step backwards as you have to keep clicking back/forth to view/compare/analyze information. Not a fan but see no way to give feedback (?) or retain the original site.
F150HD wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:14 am
wondering why are they changing the ETF page? (and similar pages I assume)
On the original page all the data is aggregated into a single table which is easy to browse/compare/analyze (snip below). The 'new' site you have to click on tabs to get the same info, to me its definitely a step backwards as you have to keep clicking back/forth to view/compare/analyze information. Not a fan but see no way to give feedback (?) or retain the original site.
Go to the 'new" page and compare a few funds. All of the links in the comparison columns are broken.
There is absolutely no hint of quality assurance here (software testing). Basic Engineering 101 gets a Fail. I didn't check the numbers and hope they are right.
To some, the glass is half full. To others, the glass is half empty. To an engineer, it's twice the size it needs to be.
What is the best alternate site for comparing basic data about ETFs (ER, YTD returns, yield, etc)? I've always preferred to use the issuer's website because Morningstar had errors but that was over 10 years ago. There's ETFDB.com I guess?
galawdawg wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:17 am
You send feedback to Vanguard by secure message, obviously!
Oh....wait..... Sorry, that may not work.
not sure? some sites have a little 'feedback' button on the side (?) thought there would be one but there is not? and clearly no messaging feature anymore.
Not going to spend 1-3 hours of a day trying to call them.
I was being flippant. The "invitation" to provide feedback to VG about changes to the website with no apparent mechanism to do so has been noted by others related to prior revisions and feature changes.
Your observation and the reports of others about the same lack of feedback mechanism suggests either that the Vanguard IT department is not competent or that Vanguard really does NOT want feedback, despite their "invitation" to provide such. Maybe there is another explanation but if there is, it escapes me...
We are on the legacy mutual fund platform. We still have secure message available and a feedback tab is provided on the side. I rated Vanguard's platform and provided feedback.
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:36 am
I like Vanguard's website.
I like it better than the Android app, which was ruined by their last update. I can't even use it to buy mutual funds how I want anymore. It now makes you transfer money to your settlement account first, whereas on the older versions of the Android app and website you can fund mutual fund purchases directly from a bank account.
stan1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:39 am
What is the best alternate site for comparing basic data about ETFs (ER, YTD returns, yield, etc)? I've always preferred to use the issuer's website because Morningstar had errors but that was over 10 years ago. There's ETFDB.com I guess?
Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:36 am
I like Vanguard's website.
I like it better than the Android app, which was ruined by their last update. I can't even use it to buy mutual funds how I want anymore. It now makes you transfer money to your settlement account first, whereas on the older versions of the Android app and website you can fund mutual fund purchases directly from a bank account.
I wonder why they only changed the Android app. The legacy app for iOS still has all original functionality, and still gets updates. They have the separate Beacon app which really isn't ready for primetime.
Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:36 am
I like Vanguard's website.
I like it better than the Android app, which was ruined by their last update. I can't even use it to buy mutual funds how I want anymore. It now makes you transfer money to your settlement account first, whereas on the older versions of the Android app and website you can fund mutual fund purchases directly from a bank account.
I wonder why they only changed the Android app. The legacy app for iOS still has all original functionality, and still gets updates. They have the separate Beacon app which really isn't ready for primetime.
The updated Android app looks like the Beacon app, and neither is ready for prime time. I assume they are using Android users as test subjects. Google Play (Android app store) has the Vanguard app rated at 1.6 stars...
stan1 wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:39 am
What is the best alternate site for comparing basic data about ETFs (ER, YTD returns, yield, etc)? I've always preferred to use the issuer's website because Morningstar had errors but that was over 10 years ago. There's ETFDB.com I guess?
Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:36 am
I like Vanguard's website.
I like it better than the Android app, which was ruined by their last update. I can't even use it to buy mutual funds how I want anymore. It now makes you transfer money to your settlement account first, whereas on the older versions of the Android app and website you can fund mutual fund purchases directly from a bank account.
I wonder why they only changed the Android app. The legacy app for iOS still has all original functionality, and still gets updates. They have the separate Beacon app which really isn't ready for primetime.
The updated Android app looks like the Beacon app, and neither is ready for prime time. I assume they are using Android users as test subjects. Google Play (Android app store) has the Vanguard app rated at 1.6 stars...
It's just strange. The original Vanguard app on iOS was updated just two days ago, and did not duplicate the Beacon layout. It is on version 11.14 and averages 4.7 stars out of 5 based on 167,424 reviews.
Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Aug 28, 2021 8:36 am
I like Vanguard's website.
I like it better than the Android app, which was ruined by their last update. I can't even use it to buy mutual funds how I want anymore. It now makes you transfer money to your settlement account first, whereas on the older versions of the Android app and website you can fund mutual fund purchases directly from a bank account.
I wonder why they only changed the Android app. The legacy app for iOS still has all original functionality, and still gets updates. They have the separate Beacon app which really isn't ready for primetime.
The updated Android app looks like the Beacon app, and neither is ready for prime time. I assume they are using Android users as test subjects. Google Play (Android app store) has the Vanguard app rated at 1.6 stars...
It's just strange. The original Vanguard app on iOS was updated just two days ago, and did not duplicate the Beacon layout. It is on version 11.14 and averages 4.7 stars out of 5 based on 167,424 reviews.
Yeah, I have no idea. I am forced to use the mobile web browser or desktop to buy VTSAX in my taxable and fund from my bank account.