Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

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SrGrumpy
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Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

The only way I can get my wife interested in investing is to discuss subjects and sectors that appeal to her. She quickly gravitated towards the cannabis sector, and I found the POTX etf as a relatively wiser alternative to individual pot stocks. She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.

Anyway, I noticed the firm behind POTX, Global X, has other aptly named offerings, and many have also done pretty well.

https://www.globalxetfs.com/explore/

MILN targets companies and products favored by millennials (Disney, Uber, etc) and is up 64% for the past year, surpassing the Nasdaq and S&P500. HERO - videogames - has done even better, up 99%, while SOCL - social media - is up 118%. Their ERs are just 0.5%.

Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

lots of people here and elsewhere have money in speculative ventures.

some work out.

most do not.

many people say they have fun money even though they haven't reached their goals.

so all they've really done is taken money that should be used to reach their goals and instead call it fun money and gamble.

some people aren't going to reach their goals if they divert resources to speculative ventures.

many people disagree with me on this.

because gambling is a powerful force.

so too is denial.
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birdog
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by birdog »

Since this forum's above logo says "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" I will simply leave you with some of his thoughts that seem to pertain to your situation. You are free to heed them or ignore them. If someone had enlightened me to these Bogle truths when I started investing I would have much more invested than I currently now do. (Of course, this is not directed at someone who has met their investing goals and wants to gamble with a very small (5% or less) portion of their portfolio.)

“Buying funds based purely on their past performance is one of the stupidest things an investor can do.”
— John C. Bogle

“Simply buy … a total stock market index fund. Then, once you have bought your stocks, get out of the casino—and stay-out!”
— John C. Bogle

“Speculation leads you the wrong way. It allows you to put your emotions first, whereas investment gets emotions out of the picture.
— John C. Bogle

“Owning the stock market over the long term is a winner’s game, but attempting to beat the market is a loser’s game.”
— John C. Bogle

“The two greatest enemies of the equity fund investor are expenses and emotions.”
— John C. Bogle

“The winning formula for success in investing is owning the entire stock market through an index fund, and then doing nothing. Just stay the course.”
— John C. Bogle

“Investing is not nearly as difficult as it looks. Successful investing involves doing a few things right and avoiding serious mistakes.”
— John C. Bogle

“When there are multiple solutions to a problem, choose the simplest one.”
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SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Da SrGrumpy.

here are 23,000 links on bogleheads who have asked what to do with so called "fun" money (guess there's fun money and serious money as if there's different money? I thought money was fungible):

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... =fun+money

here's 17,900 links on bogleheads about "sector etfs":
https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... g&q=sector

So you're only asking a question that's been asked tens of thousands of times already on bogleheads.

Let the search bar be your friend. But remember regarding speulating with sector etfs:'

Het.

And for now it's merely dasviDAniya.
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scout1
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by scout1 »

I don't think they would be much fun if they started going down.
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birdog
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by birdog »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Sir, this is Bogleheads, not FunMoneyHeads. :D

Perhaps other websites might offer the types of answers you're willing to accept.

I wasn't aware that Jack Bogle was Russian.
donaldfair71
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by donaldfair71 »

Yes ITOT and IXUS.

In all seriousness, I have thought about directing some new taxable money to RZV (Pure Value Small Cap) just to have something to feel more aggressive and gamble-driven. I just haven't yet. I always get pulled back to total market funds.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by sailaway »

Motif was coming online at just the time I had some money to invest in a taxable account. All I knew about investing was "diversity." I had done pretty well picking target date and a couple of other funds in my 401a (now index funds, of course). However, it never occurred to me that I could do the same in a brokerage account. Motif was a simple way to not pick specific stocks, but rather an idea that I was willing to support. I did pretty well (TSLA in my green energy motif helped), but it has turned out to be a PITA, especially when Motif closed their doors and utterly failed to transfer the basis with my stocks to my new brokerage :annoyed

I sold a bunch of things to tax loss harvest at one point, and put the proceeds into index funds (VOO and VXUS). Unless there are sad losses again, I will likely hang onto what I have until we are in a lower income bracket, but I don't play the games anymore. It turns out, it wasn't actually fun. Automating everything and going outside or goofing off on the internet is much more fun.
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birdog
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by birdog »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am And for now it's merely dasviDAniya.
LOL
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

at this rate someone's bound to write an article called "Bogleheads is worse than Marxism".

oh, right. that's already been written:

https://www.google.com/search?client=fi ... an+marxism
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asif408
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by asif408 »

Just keep it simple and boring with a target date fund or something similar so she won't be interested and you all should do well. IMO the less your wife and you are interested in investing the better for your portfolio in the long run.

If you want fun and excitement go skydiving or drag racing.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by bloom2708 »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Wouldn't smoking the p*t be more "fun"?

S&P 500 index is pretty fun when stocks are going up. :D
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SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

OK. I'll clarify. If you have invested in quite narrow and specific funds such those as I have mentioned - cannabis, video games, - and those I haven't mentioned, such as cybersecurity (BUG) and "The Internet of Things" (SNSR) I'd be interested to know. If you haven't, then I'm not interested.
bloom2708 wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:42 am
Wouldn't smoking the p*t be more "fun"?

S&P 500 index is pretty fun when stocks are going up. :D
I'm trying to wean her off that, and yes stocks are great when they go up.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by bloom2708 »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:46 am OK. I'll clarify. If you have invested in quite narrow and specific funds such those as I have mentioned - cannabis, video games, - and those I haven't mentioned, such as cybersecurity (BUG) and "The Internet of Things" (SNSR) I'd be interested to know. If you haven't, then I'm not interested.
I do have $20k in ESGV (Environmental, Social ETF). It is also fun when it goes up.
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SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am
here are 23,000 links on bogleheads who have asked what to do with so called "fun" money (guess there's fun money and serious money as if there's different money? I thought money was fungible):

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... =fun+money

here's 17,900 links on bogleheads about "sector etfs":
https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... g&q=sector

So, 41,000 links and not a single reference to POTX. I did check before I started the thread.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:00 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am
here are 23,000 links on bogleheads who have asked what to do with so called "fun" money (guess there's fun money and serious money as if there's different money? I thought money was fungible):

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... =fun+money

here's 17,900 links on bogleheads about "sector etfs":
https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... g&q=sector

So, 41,000 links and not a single reference to POTX. I did check before I started the thread.
could that be because that fund has only been around since Sept 2019 and good advice is to not invest in things that don't have a long track record?

could it be because Jack Bogle wrote in The Little Book of Commonsense Investing that "The First Shall Be the Last", so even if potx did well over the past year (it's only full year in existence) not only tells you nothing about the future, but is likely due to reversion to the mean, to underperform going forward if it outperformed in the past?
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Good luck. There is a not so small group of folks on here who may as well be in a cult. I have no idea why anyone needs to even comment on your original post if they don't have anything new to say. Lots of people seem to get off on regurgitating quotes, paraphrasing Bogle-type concepts (often misunderstood and interpreted so literally that no one is allowed to even have a dissenting opinion), and when they're done with that they'll follow up with a bunch of platitudes that make no contextual sense.

Anyway, the average investor will get average market returns minus fees. Plus, don't forget that you are market timing and no one on earth has ever made money outside of a 3 fund portfolio that never changes. But hey, when I was young I thought I could pick stocks, but now I'm a millionaire because I've memorized some phrases, and I'm clearly smart enough now to know that valuations are meaningless and price paid for assets has no impact on subsequent returns.

Sorry, I have to go now. I bet someone else is trying to ask an interesting and educational question. I'm going to go tell them it's a dumb question because Vanguard has a total stock fund with a 2 basis point fee. (I can't wait to keep shutting down everyone sharing ideas :D )
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by birdog »

BJJ_GUY wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:10 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Good luck. There is a not so small group of folks on here who may as well be in a cult. I have no idea why anyone needs to even comment on your original post if they don't have anything new to say. Lots of people seem to get off on regurgitating quotes, paraphrasing Bogle-type concepts (often misunderstood and interpreted so literally that no one is allowed to even have a dissenting opinion), and when they're done with that they'll follow up with a bunch of platitudes that make no contextual sense.

Anyway, the average investor will get average market returns minus fees. Plus, don't forget that you are market timing and no one on earth has ever made money outside of a 3 fund portfolio that never changes. But hey, when I was young I thought I could pick stocks, but now I'm a millionaire because I've memorized some phrases, and I'm clearly smart enough now to know that valuations are meaningless and price paid for assets has no impact on subsequent returns.

Sorry, I have to go now. I bet someone else is trying to ask an interesting and educational question. I'm going to go tell them it's a dumb question because Vanguard has a total stock fund with a 2 basis point fee. (I can't wait to keep shutting down everyone sharing ideas :D )
Don't be upset if you hear Boglehead type responses on a Boglehead forum. Just because the majority of people here keep repeating the same advice is because it's been proven to be sound advice. Now if you'll excuse me, my cult leader is calling me on my inner head phone.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

ok, let's try one last stab at this (without any actual violence). You or your wife is enamored about potx because "Potx IS UP 85% so far for 2021!!" That's the first thing I see on google when I do a search for Potx. Wow. Great 2 month return, right? First problem is you're looking through the rear view mirror and second problem is you can't get past returns. That might be ok because you might not want the past returns...back to inception anyway. And unfortunately, you can't just pick certain past periods and get those returns without getting lucky only.

So if you look at how POTX did against VTSAX (total US stock market index fund, vanguard) portfoliovisualizer shows us this (data limited to Oct 31, 2019 to present because the fund only started at the end of Sept 2019):

Image

source:
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion2_2=100

POTX did worse CAGR than total market (13.50% vs 20.61%).
POTX had worse drawdowns than total market (-49.66% vs. -20.86%)
POTX had worse one year (-30.57% vs +2.85%)
POTX had lower sharpe ratio (0.49 vs 0.84) lower risk adjusted returns
POTX had lower sortino ratio (1.04 vs 1.39) lower risk adjusted returns
POTX had higher standard deviation (84.89% vs 25.40%) so way higher volatility.

what's not to like right?

What do you (or your wife) think of POTX now???
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BJJ_GUY
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

birdog wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:16 am
BJJ_GUY wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:10 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
Good luck. There is a not so small group of folks on here who may as well be in a cult. I have no idea why anyone needs to even comment on your original post if they don't have anything new to say. Lots of people seem to get off on regurgitating quotes, paraphrasing Bogle-type concepts (often misunderstood and interpreted so literally that no one is allowed to even have a dissenting opinion), and when they're done with that they'll follow up with a bunch of platitudes that make no contextual sense.

Anyway, the average investor will get average market returns minus fees. Plus, don't forget that you are market timing and no one on earth has ever made money outside of a 3 fund portfolio that never changes. But hey, when I was young I thought I could pick stocks, but now I'm a millionaire because I've memorized some phrases, and I'm clearly smart enough now to know that valuations are meaningless and price paid for assets has no impact on subsequent returns.

Sorry, I have to go now. I bet someone else is trying to ask an interesting and educational question. I'm going to go tell them it's a dumb question because Vanguard has a total stock fund with a 2 basis point fee. (I can't wait to keep shutting down everyone sharing ideas :D )
Don't be upset if you hear Boglehead type responses on a Boglehead forum. Just because the majority of people here keep repeating the same advice is because it's been proven to be sound advice. Now if you'll excuse me, my cult leader is calling me on my inner head phone.
I'm just saying there is a time and a place. If someone is asking a question about thoughts on potentially adjusting, or adding nuance to an otherwise Boglehead approach, then it makes sense.

But a question asking about something silly like a fun ETF, or how Gamestop options and shorting work, I just don't see the point in taking the time to comment.

Importantly, even a diehard bogle portfolio loyalist can participate in conversations to either help educate, or to learn some new stuff from the large number of smart folks on here. Discussion, debate, and learning seem far more fun to me than beating people over the head with a widely shared philosophy anyway.

"Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail." - Jack Bogle
Scooter57
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by Scooter57 »

ETFs are a poor way to make speculative investments, because every one I have looked at is a mix of a few good stocks and a bunch of stuff I wouldn't go out of my way to own.

If you are going to speculate for fun, research and buy individual stocks. Most of the faddy ETFs are successful only because of a handful of stocks they guessed right on.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by runninginvestor »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am The only way I can get my wife interested in investing is to discuss subjects and sectors that appeal to her. She quickly gravitated towards the cannabis sector, and I found the POTX etf as a relatively wiser alternative to individual pot stocks. She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.

Anyway, I noticed the firm behind POTX, Global X, has other aptly named offerings, and many have also done pretty well.

https://www.globalxetfs.com/explore/

MILN targets companies and products favored by millennials (Disney, Uber, etc) and is up 64% for the past year, surpassing the Nasdaq and S&P500. HERO - videogames - has done even better, up 99%, while SOCL - social media - is up 118%. Their ERs are just 0.5%.

Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
Not in the specific ones that you mentioned, but I, along with many others on this forum do have fun money in certain holdings.

If you are trying to get someone interested in investing, a very small amount of money if you can afford it as fun money, is not a bad way to do it. Especially if it's someone like your spouse who could potentially take over the finances if you were unable. It's good too make sure they know they understanding of what is fun money and what is money reserved for sound investments. Just keep in mind that 2020 has a huge retail trading boom which caused a lot of, I can't think of the word for it but "fun" named ETFs. And it's always easier back holdings in a bull market than a bear market. My experience is with allowing people to allocate towards fun money, once a bear market hits and their holdings drop and don't come back, they usually switch over to more traditional investment philosophies (with guidance).

Looking at POTX specifically, it looks like back in 2019 it was trading higher than or right about what it is right now. So the recent returns might look appealing, but it can largely be attributed to the massive drop in March 2020 followed by the record stimulus propping up the stock markets. And even with that record stimulus it's not even back to where it was. Doesn't say anything about it moving forward though (legalizing laws were big winners in the recent elections), just a bleak past picture.
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SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:22 am What do you (or your wife) think of POTX now???
Your're putting words in my mouth with that little OTT rant. You'll note I told her "not to get too excited" - and she knows that. Anyway, I was more interested in the other funds mentioned, being somewhat averse to that particular scene.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by Peaceful »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am The only way I can get my wife interested in investing is to discuss subjects and sectors that appeal to her. She quickly gravitated towards the cannabis sector, and I found the POTX etf as a relatively wiser alternative to individual pot stocks. She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.

Anyway, I noticed the firm behind POTX, Global X, has other aptly named offerings, and many have also done pretty well.

https://www.globalxetfs.com/explore/

MILN targets companies and products favored by millennials (Disney, Uber, etc) and is up 64% for the past year, surpassing the Nasdaq and S&P500. HERO - videogames - has done even better, up 99%, while SOCL - social media - is up 118%. Their ERs are just 0.5%.

Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
Oh, man.

I really, really don't get the appeal of the cannabis sector as an investment. Weed is exactly that, a literal weed. It is basically a commodity that if not for legal restrictions and government regulation would have little or no market value. It's something that virtually anyone who wanted to, could grow more than sufficient personal supplies with minimal capital investment, in their own closet or basement. (Don't ask me how I know this.)
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by 22twain »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am [here are 23,000 links on bogleheads who have asked what to do with so called "fun" money (guess there's fun money and serious money as if there's different money? I thought money was fungible):

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... =fun+money
Another "fun" term to search for is "play money":

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... play+money
Meet my pet, Peeve, who loves to convert non-acronyms into acronyms: FED, ROTH, CASH, IVY, ...
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SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

runninginvestor wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:41 am If you are trying to get someone interested in investing, a very small amount of money if you can afford it as fun money, is not a bad way to do it. Especially if it's someone like your spouse who could potentially take over the finances if you were unable.
Absolutely correct. This is what keeps me up at night.

It was a drawn-out process getting her this far - opening a Schwab account and getting her interested in traditional ETFs with the understanding that we'd take a look at the weird ones. And then I went down the rabbit hole and got quite intrigued. NERD! I'm OK financially, enforced early retirement in early 40s, and we're both frugal for the most part.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

22twain wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:50 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 10:17 am [here are 23,000 links on bogleheads who have asked what to do with so called "fun" money (guess there's fun money and serious money as if there's different money? I thought money was fungible):

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... =fun+money
Another "fun" term to search for is "play money":

https://www.google.com/search?sitesearc ... play+money
thank you. will add to my list:

fun money
sector etfs
play money
mad money...
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Dead Man Walking
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by Dead Man Walking »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
You’ve been advised to search the website for threads on this topic. If everyone followed that advice, there would be darn few new posts on this website.

Yes, I invest some “fun money” in speculative investments. I invest in mutual funds, not ETFs. I recently invested in a couple of Matthews Asia Funds because I wanted some exposure to China and emerging Asia. My investment in those funds is less than 2% of my portfolio. The funds have a 5 star rating at Morningstar, but I’m sure most Bogleheads would frown on them because they are active funds that have expense ratios slightly above 1%. Heck, some frown on my investment in Vanguard active funds. Search for threads about Wellington and Primecap if you need reinforcement.

DMW
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SteadyOne »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
I buy a few lottery tickets. It’s fun and it benefits schools.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.
I would approach this the following way:

1. ask her if she likes paying more for something or less for something? If she's intersted in something that went up, she's paying a higher price, not a lower price.

2. does she understand that past performance is no guarantee of future results?

3. are her return expectations reasonable and realistic? If she understands the market as a whole has grown at 10% CAGR over the past 94 years (source: https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation) then why should she expect more from sector ETFs?

4. does she understand that in any given year 80% of active funds underperform an S&P500 index fund (source: https://www.spglobal.com/spdji/en/spiva/#/reports). The longer term track record is even worse than that.

5. has she watched the following videos (takes about an hour of your time total and better well spent than researching sector etfs):
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Video:B ... philosophy

6. Is she aware that many sector etfs close every year (150 in the past 3 years):
https://www.investopedia.com/articles/e ... siness.asp

7. while you're saying this is your wife's doing, you also say these etfs "only" charge 0.5% as if that's a low fee. It might be compared to the average managed mutual fund but half a percent does make a difference over time:
http://web.archive.org/web/201611100649 ... f-returns/
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:29 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Topic Author
SrGrumpy
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by SrGrumpy »

Dead Man Walking wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:19 pm
SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
You’ve been advised to search the website for threads on this topic. If everyone followed that advice, there would be darn few new posts on this website.
Maybe I should have said "offbeat" ETFs, not the usual stuff in mainstream sectors, like XLV and XLY. I searched the ticker symbols, as stated above - no joy.

Don't worry - I have no immediate plans to ask about retirement destinations or deadbeat family members, or whether I can afford a $5 million house on my $20 million salary. So I agree with you there.
secondopinion
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by secondopinion »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
None of my money is fun money; it is serious mini part-time business for me. I will invest in high-yield bonds and preferred stock, deviate from market-weight, use options, and even position trade commodities. Speculative, yes; gambling, absolutely not. I never ever label my money as fun money; emotions destroy your portfolio, and acting silly with money is destructive. I avoid casinos; I avoid lotteries; I even avoid charity raffles. If emotions are the reason I want to do something, I do not do it period.

I question the judgment of those who equate investments against the market-weight mentality as gambling or using play money; I am bold enough to say that assuming market-weight is the most sensible choice is speculative. All investments (even the "risk-free" ones) are speculative when you actually think about it. The more I learn, the less I agree that there is anyone that is not speculating; speculation is unavoidable, only the risk taken varies.

Under that line of thought, people will think twice about every investment, every dollar bill, and every purchase.
Passive investing: not about making big bucks but making profits. Active investing: not about beating the market but meeting goals. Speculation: not about timing the market but taking profitable risks.
jrbdmb
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by jrbdmb »

Since this forum's above logo says "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" I will post this reference to John Bogle suggesting that a small portion of your portfolio can be used for such ventures:
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:22 pm I posted this in another thread: Subject: How I beat Indexing... in 1 hour
LadyGeek wrote:Hi Happy! It comes from John Bogle himself, see the wiki: Variations on Bogleheads® investing
Wiki footnote wrote:John Bogle says that investors with an itch for speculating can allocate 5% of a portfolio to a "funny money" account.
That said, I have a small amount in BETZ (Roundhill Sports Betting & iGaming ETF, ER=0.75%), decided to do this rather than a bet (pardon the pun) on DraftKings stock as my son suggested. Not even 1% of my portfolio, but interesting to follow and endorsed by Bogle himself! :happy

(It is up about 50% since I bought it but I don't attribute that to anything other than luck.)
Last edited by jrbdmb on Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:47 pm, edited 3 times in total.
wolf359
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by wolf359 »

Yes, absolutely!

I own MTUM to make a momentum play.
I also own QQQ, for similar reasons. QQQ tracks the NASDAQ 100 index. That index is too narrowly focused to count as a widely-diversified.

These are my two most "expensive" ETFs. MTUM is implemented as a factor tilt. QQQ is one of my cheapest fund options in a 401-k. These two funds weren't exactly bought as "fun money" but they are actually fun to hold because of how they behave and because anytime I hear about a hot stock and get tempted to buy it, I check in MTUM's holdings and usually find I already own it.

Owning these two "fun" ETFs help keep me from being tempted to buy individual stocks.

The rules for owning them are written into my IPS.
wolf359
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by wolf359 »

For offbeat ETFs, there used to be an ETF that used the Buzzfeed social media indicator to identify stocks that were trending in discussion groups. (I think it did well, but it didn't get enough traction and died. However, after recent events, it looks like other similar funds are now being launched.)

There's also some Automation and Robotics ETFs that look interesting. They're way too expensive, and not widely held enough at this point. I'd worry about holding them long-term.

There are ETFs that bet on the direction of the market, and leverage the direction. That drew my attention because when Vanguard removed commissions on US ETFs, the only exception they made was for leveraged ETFs. That got me to research them as to why they're so bad. They're bad because they're not investing vehicles -- they're speculation vehicles.

Disclaimer: I don't actually own any of these. I'm interested in the ideas, but I'm probably never going to buy one. "Fun" in this case is learning what's going on behind the scenes and how they set them up.
BJJ_GUY
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:28 pm
Dead Man Walking wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:19 pm
SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:58 am Predictable responses. I asked about "fun" etfs in the headline, and "fun money" in the text. Not a Soviet-style recitation of BH principles.
You’ve been advised to search the website for threads on this topic. If everyone followed that advice, there would be darn few new posts on this website.
Maybe I should have said "offbeat" ETFs, not the usual stuff in mainstream sectors, like XLV and XLY. I searched the ticker symbols, as stated above - no joy.

Don't worry - I have no immediate plans to ask about retirement destinations or deadbeat family members, or whether I can afford a $5 million house on my $20 million salary. So I agree with you there.
Try INFL which is an actively managed ETF. It's technically an inflation hedge mandate, but not in the typical fashion as it's a rather concentrated portfolio of interesting stocks (all, or nearly all of them not in major indices).

While a thematic sector/fad type ETF might grab attention right away, I bet her (and your) attention will soon be lost because there is no depth, often times, and there isn't really an investment level thesis for the holdings. These are attention grabbers because you can talk about them at the dinner table at a macro level.

INFL on the other hand is sub-advised by Horizon Kinetics. They are fantastic money managers, and put out top notch research materials. Forget the whole inflation part of this investment, and instead focus on the fact that you guys can learn about how a royalty trust operates (and how different that model is compared to peers in the same industry). There are 5-10 very interesting investments, and I'm sure those outside of the top 10 are also interesting, but probably a similar theme as some top names.

I think you'll find a more robust and lasting response from her, and you too, if you identify a few unique mutual fund managers who write really good letters, and maybe also do investor calls (where they hopefully take Q&A). You can print letters and transcripts of calls, and find interviews. This, I believe, is the way to capturing interest
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by Dottie57 »

Peaceful wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:49 am
SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am The only way I can get my wife interested in investing is to discuss subjects and sectors that appeal to her. She quickly gravitated towards the cannabis sector, and I found the POTX etf as a relatively wiser alternative to individual pot stocks. She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.

Anyway, I noticed the firm behind POTX, Global X, has other aptly named offerings, and many have also done pretty well.

https://www.globalxetfs.com/explore/

MILN targets companies and products favored by millennials (Disney, Uber, etc) and is up 64% for the past year, surpassing the Nasdaq and S&P500. HERO - videogames - has done even better, up 99%, while SOCL - social media - is up 118%. Their ERs are just 0.5%.

Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
Oh, man.

I really, really don't get the appeal of the cannabis sector as an investment. Weed is exactly that, a literal weed. It is basically a commodity that if not for legal restrictions and government regulation would have little or no market value. It's something that virtually anyone who wanted to, could grow more than sufficient personal supplies with minimal capital investment, in their own closet or basement. (Don't ask me how I know this.)
QQ, then what is the appeal og liquor or tobacco stock? I guess someone sees them as a good buy.
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midareff
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by midareff »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am The only way I can get my wife interested in investing is to discuss subjects and sectors that appeal to her. She quickly gravitated towards the cannabis sector, and I found the POTX etf as a relatively wiser alternative to individual pot stocks. She likes the name and is actually doing some research and learning some basic investment notions. It's up about 50% over the past year and 85% YTD, but I've told her not to get too excited.

Anyway, I noticed the firm behind POTX, Global X, has other aptly named offerings, and many have also done pretty well.

https://www.globalxetfs.com/explore/

MILN targets companies and products favored by millennials (Disney, Uber, etc) and is up 64% for the past year, surpassing the Nasdaq and S&P500. HERO - videogames - has done even better, up 99%, while SOCL - social media - is up 118%. Their ERs are just 0.5%.

Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
Life is so easy in the rear view mirror.
thousandaire
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by thousandaire »

The Soviet-style recitations are par for the course here; I agree with earlier posters that we need to lighten up sometimes. OP said this is a way to get his wife interested, and has over 1300 posts here--I'm pretty sure he knows the BH philosophy.

To answer OP: not an ETF, but when stocks crashed last March I made my own "mini fund" of airline stocks, buying 6 airlines in equal amounts. It was about 2% of my portfolio at the time, closer to 3% now after gains. Planning to quit while I'm ahead once they hit the 1-year mark.

Also, tons of people on here have fun money. The paradox of being a BH is that we are knowledgeable about investing, but adhere to a philosophy that essentially says "don't touch your investments." A small "fun fund" can help channel that restless energy, and even reinforce the BH principles long term, once folks see for themselves how hard it is to beat the market.
Last edited by thousandaire on Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

jrbdmb wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 12:35 pm Since this forum's above logo says "Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle" I will post this reference to John Bogle suggesting that a small portion of your portfolio can be used for such ventures:
LadyGeek wrote: Sun Sep 28, 2014 3:22 pm I posted this in another thread: Subject: How I beat Indexing... in 1 hour
LadyGeek wrote:Hi Happy! It comes from John Bogle himself, see the wiki: Variations on Bogleheads® investing
Wiki footnote wrote:John Bogle says that investors with an itch for speculating can allocate 5% of a portfolio to a "funny money" account.
That said, I have a small amount in BETZ (Roundhill Sports Betting & iGaming ETF, ER=0.75%), decided to do this rather than a bet (pardon the pun) on DraftKings stock as my son suggested. Not even 1% of my portfolio, but interesting to follow and endorsed by Bogle himself! :happy

(It is up about 50% since I bought it but I don't attribute that to anything other than luck.)
to piggyback on this for the OP's (and his wife's) benefit:

if you (OP) admit you or your wife will only buy these offbeat ETFs with a small part of your portfolio, you have to ask yourself how much will that truly move the needle?

In this case for jrbdmb if s/he made 50% on (let's say) 1% of his portfolio that only got him/her an additional 0.5% return.

that's not gonna make much of a difference.

that's why it's best to just get a guaranteed return of the market.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
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birdog
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by birdog »

BJJ_GUY wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:28 am
"Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail." - Jack Bogle
Nice try with the fake Bogle quote. That was Abraham Maslow. Haha. :oops:

Come to Bogleheads...don’t be surprised if you get Boglehead advice. Look on the bright side, it will most likely save you money. Perhaps the better question is why Bogleheads would ever have to defend themselves for giving Boglehead advice on Bogleheads. :beer
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

birdog wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 pm
BJJ_GUY wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:28 am
"Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail." - Jack Bogle
Nice try with the fake Bogle quote. That was Abraham Maslow. Haha. :oops:

Come to Bogleheads...don’t be surprised if you get Boglehead advice. Look on the bright side, it will most likely save you money. Perhaps the better question is why Bogleheads would ever have to defend themselves for giving Boglehead advice on Bogleheads. :beer
Next you'll tell me Einstein didn't actually say:
Compound Interest is the most powerful force in the universe"
:wink:
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flyingcows
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by flyingcows »

This probably isn't in the "fun" category, but I was curious if there was an "anti-ESG" factor ETF that contained stocks typically excluded by other funds due to common ESG rules/thresholds, socks that deal with: Tobacco, Oil, Detention Center RIETs, Guns, Fastfood, etc?
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BJJ_GUY
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by BJJ_GUY »

birdog wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:46 pm
BJJ_GUY wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 11:28 am
"Just because you have a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail." - Jack Bogle
Nice try with the fake Bogle quote. That was Abraham Maslow. Haha. :oops:

Come to Bogleheads...don’t be surprised if you get Boglehead advice. Look on the bright side, it will most likely save you money. Perhaps the better question is why Bogleheads would ever have to defend themselves for giving Boglehead advice on Bogleheads. :beer
Yeah, I was obviously trying to bring levity to the conversation with the fake quote. I haven't ever said anyone needs to apologize, I was simply saying that I don't think every question deserves a reminder of the Boglehead way.

Of course, I'm not telling anyone what to say, but simply pointing out that some threads are so obviously not bogle portfolio related that it could actually turn out to be interesting, enjoyable, and potentially even educational if more folks chose to participate in the topic rather than force bogle theory into the exchanges.

By the way, I appreciate the simple passive portfolios (and that's what most of my accounts are). I simply enjoy attempting to interact and learn, and hopefully provide some insight where possible, and the more unique threads provide a lot more opportunity for that than debating if someone should tilt 5% toward a value ETF.

It was all in good fun :sharebeer
hnd
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by hnd »

i invested some money in the ARK funds and in AMP (online retail) at the dip. they've done well. will they in the future, who knows.
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JonnyDVM
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by JonnyDVM »

I’ll play OP. I’m neither grumpy nor a Soviet. I have

ICLN- clean energy
DRIV- autonomous driving
BOTZ- AI
I’d trade it all for a little more | -C Montgomery Burns
ensign
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by ensign »

SrGrumpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 9:13 am Does anyone have some fun money in such ETFs, maybe HERO rival NERD (up 130%)? Or even UFO (up 25% about the same as the S&P)?
No.
sir_throckmorton
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by sir_throckmorton »

I have a small position in the Renaissance IPO ETF (IPO).
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dmcmahon
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Re: Does anyone have "fun" ETFs?

Post by dmcmahon »

My walk on the dark side is VGT. Yes, I am boring.
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