Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

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xenial
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Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by xenial »

Something strange has happened with Vanguard's reported market prices. No distributions are scheduled.

VEA: $48.56 at TUE close, $46.805 WED before market open
VWO: $53.45 at TUE close, $49.729 WED before market open

Can anyone explain?
alex_686
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by alex_686 »

Open and closing prices are always different.

In this case it is a international fund. The international markets have been open, shares have traded, and the market has moved. Hence the change in share prices.
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xenial
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by xenial »

alex_686 wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:17 am Open and closing prices are always different.

In this case it is a international fund. The international markets have been open, shares have traded, and the market has moved. Hence the change in share prices.
That's not what generally happens. Trading in the US hasn't started yet. Certainly once the US market opens, the prices will gap.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by AlohaJoe »

xenial wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 am Can anyone explain?
What did Vanguard say when you called and asked them?
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by xenial »

Vanguard's reported prices have returned to those at yesterday's close. The situation is resolved. It must have been a transient error.
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xenial
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by xenial »

AlohaJoe wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:35 am
xenial wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 am Can anyone explain?
What did Vanguard say when you called and asked them?
Calling wouldn't have been useful for two reasons.
1. Wait times have been long lately.
2. Customer service reps are far less knowledgeable than Bogleheads.

In any case, it just seems to have been a temporary error.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by livesoft »

ETFs can trade before the market opens (after hours, extended hours, pre-market, whatever). It is possible that someone sold these ETFs at well below market price (and below their value) and that became the published price. Even if one single share was sold at a ridiculously lower price, it would get disseminated.
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jhfenton
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by jhfenton »

It was a data error of some sort, and it was not limited to international ETFs. The closing price for VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor was also off first thing this morning.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by xenial »

jhfenton wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 9:45 am It was a data error of some sort, and it was not limited to international ETFs. The closing price for VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor was also off first thing this morning.
Thanks for the confirmation. I normally wouldn't have noticed, but last night I entered a limit sell order on another equity ETF to (perhaps) execute at market open, so I looked at my balances early this morning and took note of the issue.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by secondopinion »

xenial wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 am Something strange has happened with Vanguard's reported market prices. No distributions are scheduled.

VEA: $48.56 at TUE close, $46.805 WED before market open
VWO: $53.45 at TUE close, $49.729 WED before market open

Can anyone explain?
Market open never has to equal closing of the previous day. Especially when the underlining securities are trading during the closed period.

Also, there are before- and after-hours trading even in the US.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by jhfenton »

secondopinion wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 3:47 pm
xenial wrote: Wed Jan 20, 2021 8:03 am Something strange has happened with Vanguard's reported market prices. No distributions are scheduled.

VEA: $48.56 at TUE close, $46.805 WED before market open
VWO: $53.45 at TUE close, $49.729 WED before market open

Can anyone explain?
Market open never has to equal closing of the previous day. Especially when the underlining securities are trading during the closed period.

Also, there are before- and after-hours trading even in the US.
Yes. This wasn't that. Also, Vanguard doesn't report portfolio balances using before-and-after hours prices.

It was just a data glitch. Those prices didn't reflect anything connected to reality on Tuesday or Wednesday.

Now if M* would just fix its more-than-a-week-old data problem. Some ETFs, including VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor and AVDV/Avantis International Small Cap Value are showing stale prices from January 13. I assume there are others, but those are two that I own with stale data.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by sycamore »

jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am Now if M* would just fix its more-than-a-week-old data problem. Some ETFs, including VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor and AVDV/Avantis International Small Cap Value are showing stale prices from January 13. I assume there are others, but those are two that I own with stale data.
I see a similar problem in M* with Vanguard's Small Cap Value ETF VBR. The VBR quote page show the correct current price, but in one my watch lists VBR has been stuck at 150.33 for a week or more now. Some other Vanguard ETFs show the current price correctly in the watch list. This seems to be an M* issue rather than an exchange or Vanguard issue.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by jhfenton »

sycamore wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am Now if M* would just fix its more-than-a-week-old data problem. Some ETFs, including VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor and AVDV/Avantis International Small Cap Value are showing stale prices from January 13. I assume there are others, but those are two that I own with stale data.
I see a similar problem in M* with Vanguard's Small Cap Value ETF VBR. The VBR quote page show the correct current price, but in one my watch lists VBR has been stuck at 150.33 for a week or more now. Some other Vanguard ETFs show the current price correctly in the watch list. This seems to be an M* issue rather than an exchange or Vanguard issue.
Yep. It's definitely a M* issue. It's affecting an odd mix of ETFs and mutual funds from various issuers. For me, it's only VFVA and AVDV, but there are complaints in the M* discussion forums with other tickers. No response by anyone with M*.
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by sycamore »

jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:31 am
sycamore wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am Now if M* would just fix its more-than-a-week-old data problem. Some ETFs, including VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor and AVDV/Avantis International Small Cap Value are showing stale prices from January 13. I assume there are others, but those are two that I own with stale data.
I see a similar problem in M* with Vanguard's Small Cap Value ETF VBR. The VBR quote page show the correct current price, but in one my watch lists VBR has been stuck at 150.33 for a week or more now. Some other Vanguard ETFs show the current price correctly in the watch list. This seems to be an M* issue rather than an exchange or Vanguard issue.
Yep. It's definitely a M* issue. It's affecting an odd mix of ETFs and mutual funds from various issuers. For me, it's only VFVA and AVDV, but there are complaints in the M* discussion forums with other tickers. No response by anyone with M*.
VBR in my M* watch list is showing updated prices now. Maybe something got fixed over the weekend?
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Re: Price discrepancy on Vanguard Intl ETFs

Post by jhfenton »

sycamore wrote: Mon Jan 25, 2021 1:25 pm
jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:31 am
sycamore wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 10:00 am
jhfenton wrote: Fri Jan 22, 2021 8:40 am Now if M* would just fix its more-than-a-week-old data problem. Some ETFs, including VFVA/Vanguard US Value Factor and AVDV/Avantis International Small Cap Value are showing stale prices from January 13. I assume there are others, but those are two that I own with stale data.
I see a similar problem in M* with Vanguard's Small Cap Value ETF VBR. The VBR quote page show the correct current price, but in one my watch lists VBR has been stuck at 150.33 for a week or more now. Some other Vanguard ETFs show the current price correctly in the watch list. This seems to be an M* issue rather than an exchange or Vanguard issue.
Yep. It's definitely a M* issue. It's affecting an odd mix of ETFs and mutual funds from various issuers. For me, it's only VFVA and AVDV, but there are complaints in the M* discussion forums with other tickers. No response by anyone with M*.
VBR in my M* watch list is showing updated prices now. Maybe something got fixed over the weekend?
VFVA and AVDV have still not updated. (Neither have VFMF/Vanguard US Multifactor or AVEM/Avantis Emerging Markets, siblings to the two funds that I own.) The price data is now two weeks stale, both on the fund quote pages and in the M* Portfolio Manager. They responded by email last weekend that they were working on the problem, but they haven't fixed it yet.
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