What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

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delamer
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by delamer »

whodidntante wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:20 pm
flyingaway wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 8:05 pm
whodidntante wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:50 pm
flyingaway wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 3:47 pm Start a go fund me page to raise money. I don't think people will let an 85 year old go hungry.
I actually have a better, but it would not be viable if everyone knew it.
I saw destitute people digging through trash heaps in India looking for something to eat or sell. It wasn't even nice trash like we have in America. Trust me, people will let you go hungry.
I'm sure that you are right, but Americans are passionate.
Reading between the lines, I think it's mainly livesoft who is passionate. :happy
HAH!
quantAndHold
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by quantAndHold »

If it happened at 85, I would consider myself an idiot for my poor financial planning skills. But...

This did happen to my mom-in-law. She lived to 94. When she was in her mid 80’s realized that she didn’t really have enough liquid assets to support her lifestyle. A combination of a reverse mortgage and a small amount of help from my wife got her through. The big issue was that the reverse mortgage paid her a monthly sum over 10 years. By the time the reverse mortgage payouts ended, her son was handling her finances, and the kids were in quiet discussions about what to do to help her out, and she suddenly died before we had to do anything. The bank took most of the proceeds from selling the condo, and the kids split a five figure estate. If she had lived longer, we would have been dipping into our accounts to keep her going.

A separate story. A good friend of mine back in the 90’s. Had been a C-level exec at Random House. Semi-retired in her 50’s with plenty of money. Over the course of about ten years, went from being quite wealthy to losing everything in a snowball of horrendous luck. Divorce, car accident (hit by a drunk driver) that left her disabled, unable to work and unable to get health insurance in pre-ACA America, in the middle of a housing market crash, so the house was foreclosed. She literally lost every last cent. She went from a big house on the cliff in La Jolla to living on her Social Security in a subsidized one bedroom apartment. Her story is my nightmare scenario. She handled it by adjusting her lifestyle to be able to live entirely on Social Security. It was ugly, but she did it.
Yes, I’m really that pedantic.
Scooter57
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Scooter57 »

This is one reason not to head for a low tax state when you retire, because higher tax states often have far better social services for the elderly. Those services are funded by those taxes. Look at the healthcare options, too. Medicare Advantage plans in Massachusetts are far far less expensive than those in lower tax states and cover far more services. There is help for those who have trouble paying, too.

Areas filled with rich retirees who resent paying for other people's needs will be much tougher places to live if you run out of money.

It is possible to keep working at a profession into your 90s if you are one of the lucky ones whose cognition stays intact. You can consult and have valuable expertise. My dad worked as an expert witness until he was 92, but he looked much younger. He had to stop when age-related macular degeneration made him blind.

The biggest challenge I see is the sheer number of boomers who will be in their 80s in another 10 to 15 years. There won't be enough facilities and housing for them just as there weren't enough elementary schools, college placements, starter homes, or day care when they were younger, as there were so many more of them than of the bobby soxers. This is a coming crisis that is being completely ignored and the misconceptions fueling millenials' attitudes towards boomers don't help.

If you are in your 50s and 60s put together a plan while your cognition still works. And make sure that plan does not assume you will be energetic, healthy, as smart as usual, and living with a perpetually rising market that only has 6-week-long corrections.

But by the same token, I have known too many "perfectly healthy" people who worried a lot about how they would fund retirement but died in their 50s and 60s. Enjoy life enough when you are young that you wont die filled with regret if you don't get to be old.
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

Scooter57 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:38 pm This is one reason not to head for a low tax state when you retire, because higher tax states often have far better social services for the elderly. Those services are funded by those taxes. Look at the healthcare options, too. Medicare Advantage plans in Massachusetts are far far less expensive than those in lower tax states and cover far more services. There is help for those who have trouble paying, too.

Areas filled with rich retirees who resent paying for other people's needs will be much tougher places to live if you run out of money.
Ship them out of state.
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TravelforFun
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by TravelforFun »

Sheepdog wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:45 am
surfstar wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 am at 85? I wouldn't care - that sounds like a long-lived life.

Sorry, I'm 86 and I care and I haven't changed a heck of a lot on likes and dislikes and wants and needs. I bought a new car last December and a new AC and Furnace this summer and other stuff. I still eat and drink (plus eat in restaurants every week) and want them to be good, don't I? Wouldn't you?
For this year I bought season tickets for the Indy Colts, a symphony, and a playhouse like every other year, although this virus may mean they won't actually occur. Anyway, I will plan for next year.
I don't want to run out later, do I? Would you really? And there are a lot like me around here. I'll bet you will care when you get there.

Add on: I see that someone else said on this post Was it Oldfort? who wrote about not being able to do physical things at 85. I just don't climb on the roof anymore. That's it. I take care of my half acre, cut the lawn with a walk behind mower, never hire anyone to do anything. (Plus my wife still works at it too in the house. She still wants to go to the games, theaters and restaurants.) So, it is possible, you know. Stay active mentally and physically and you can too. (and be positive.)

Woof. Woof.
That's awesome to hear. I'm 68 and hope to be as healthy and witty as you are when I get to 86. Congratulations!

TravelforFun
MathIsMyWayr
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by MathIsMyWayr »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:22 pm
Sheepdog wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:45 am
surfstar wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 am at 85? I wouldn't care - that sounds like a long-lived life.

Sorry, I'm 86 and I care and I haven't changed a heck of a lot on likes and dislikes and wants and needs. I bought a new car last December and a new AC and Furnace this summer and other stuff. I still eat and drink (plus eat in restaurants every week) and want them to be good, don't I? Wouldn't you?
For this year I bought season tickets for the Indy Colts, a symphony, and a playhouse like every other year, although this virus may mean they won't actually occur. Anyway, I will plan for next year.
I don't want to run out later, do I? Would you really? And there are a lot like me around here. I'll bet you will care when you get there.

Add on: I see that someone else said on this post Was it Oldfort? who wrote about not being able to do physical things at 85. I just don't climb on the roof anymore. That's it. I take care of my half acre, cut the lawn with a walk behind mower, never hire anyone to do anything. (Plus my wife still works at it too in the house. She still wants to go to the games, theaters and restaurants.) So, it is possible, you know. Stay active mentally and physically and you can too. (and be positive.)

Woof. Woof.
That's awesome to hear. I'm 68 and hope to be as healthy and witty as you are when I get to 86. Congratulations!

TravelforFun
When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
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Sheepdog
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Sheepdog »

TravelforFun wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:22 pm
That's awesome to hear. I'm 68 and hope to be as healthy and witty as you are when I get to 86. Congratulations!

TravelforFun
Thanks for those nice words.

Let's see, you are 68 now, so in 17 years you will be 85. I am 86 and in 17 years I will be 103. Let's be here then talking about how good things are in money and health. OK?
All that truly matters in the end is that you loved.
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GerryL
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by GerryL »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 pm
TravelforFun wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:22 pm
Sheepdog wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 12:45 am
surfstar wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:27 am at 85? I wouldn't care - that sounds like a long-lived life.

Sorry, I'm 86 and I care and I haven't changed a heck of a lot on likes and dislikes and wants and needs. I bought a new car last December and a new AC and Furnace this summer and other stuff. I still eat and drink (plus eat in restaurants every week) and want them to be good, don't I? Wouldn't you?
For this year I bought season tickets for the Indy Colts, a symphony, and a playhouse like every other year, although this virus may mean they won't actually occur. Anyway, I will plan for next year.
I don't want to run out later, do I? Would you really? And there are a lot like me around here. I'll bet you will care when you get there.

Add on: I see that someone else said on this post Was it Oldfort? who wrote about not being able to do physical things at 85. I just don't climb on the roof anymore. That's it. I take care of my half acre, cut the lawn with a walk behind mower, never hire anyone to do anything. (Plus my wife still works at it too in the house. She still wants to go to the games, theaters and restaurants.) So, it is possible, you know. Stay active mentally and physically and you can too. (and be positive.)

Woof. Woof.
That's awesome to hear. I'm 68 and hope to be as healthy and witty as you are when I get to 86. Congratulations!

TravelforFun
When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
I thought that was Mark Twain who said that about his "old man."
Nicolas
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Nicolas »

GerryL wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 1:14 pm I thought that was Mark Twain who said that about his "old man."
It was probably neither of them. https://quoteinvestigator.com/2010/10/10/twain-father/
DB2
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by DB2 »

My good friend's father recently passed (80 yrs old) and his mother is 77. While his father made good money in his working years, he barely saved or invested anything. They couldn't control their spending. Completely dependent on Social Security which gave them just enough - and especially now with just her, but they had less than $3000 saved. However, they were definitely a good example in my life of what not to do and what happens with zero planning.
retire2022
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by retire2022 »

dodecahedron wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:56 am I deal with many seniors living very comfortably and with great dignity in nice senior apartment complexes run by respected local nonprofits. They are charged modest rents on a sliding scale basis. There is a staff during business hours weekdays that connects them to whatever resources they need to supplement their modest incomes (typically just SS, possibly a small pension too, and in some cases a bit of CD interest.) So if they need foodstamps or help with prescription drug costs or whatever, they get linked to the appropriate contact people.

Everyone is ambulatory and independent. (This is definitely not assisted living.) I am reasonably certain the nonprofits that operate the buildings get some kind of government funding (probably federal government.) A few have cars but most rely on shuttles arranged by the complex to get groceries and take care of other shopping or get to medical appointments.

The ladies (and they are almost all ladies) seem to like it there. They organize their own social events in the common spaces.
They are called HUD 202 senior subsidized affordable housing it is all over the county and funded through HUD

There is the Section 8 program they pay for your rent if you income qualify and it is all over the country.
Dregob
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Dregob »

:thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup :thumbsup
livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 am I'd move in with my one of my girlfriends.
SchruteB&B
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by SchruteB&B »

mirror wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:36 pm It seems like almost half of people over 55 are going to have to figure that problem out. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... ce-age.asp
A 2019 Government Accountability Office study found that nearly 48% of Americans age 55 and older don’t have any retirement nest egg or a traditional pension plan.
Yes, that makes sense—isn’t it around 48% of people don’t pay any federal taxes? So that same group doesn’t make enough to pay taxes and doesn’t make enough to save. As other posters have said, millions of people live on SS alone. In my area, there are many programs at the local level (not state, some at the county level and many at the township and/or city level) that provide food, property tax freezes, utility payment programs, free transportation etc to low income seniors.
hudson
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by hudson »

I'm trying to think what I would do if I ran out of resources.
Most everything has already been said.
I guess that I would do my best to stay dry, warm, and fed. I would do everything in my power to live cheap and make it work. If it didn't work out....I would try to be a low maintenance type person if someone took me in. I would hope that I could help out some way to earn my keep. I've taken in older and younger family; I realize that the older ones do their best, but that's usually not much. I guess being low maintenance would be a good goal.
Bottom Line: I would want to stay independent as long as possible; when I moved to the next level, I'd want to be low maintenance.
Tom_T
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Tom_T »

Glockenspiel wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:29 am I’m 20 years from retirement, but I think Medicaid would allow you to live in a nursing home or assisted living center, and cover healthcare, and social security should be enough to cover expenses outside of that. Sell off assets, live in an apartment that’s income-based, etc.
Medicaid requires that you have no more than $2,000 in assets, and they require that level for five years prior to you applying. And if you have a house, it gets complicated. So you'd have to do a lot of planning well in advance. Welcome to the world of elder law. :)
smitcat
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by smitcat »

dodecahedron wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:09 pm
smitcat wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:49 am
oldfort wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:48 am The idea of being healthy enough for a full time job at 85 is a fantasy. Most people end up doing one of several options 1) live off Social Security/pension(if available) as best they can, 2) reverse mortgage to live off home equity. 3) get financial support from family, 4) go live with family, or 5) live off some combination of government assistance programs, ex. Medicaid for a nursing home or assisted living.
Yes - exactly +1.
I do not know if my grandmother needed to do it, but she genuinely enjoyed part-time work as the weekend receptionist at the local TV station until shortly before she had an incapacitating stroke at 87. She really enjoyed dealing with irate folks on the phone wanting to know why their football game had been preempted or whatever. She was also the resident manager for her apartment complex until her mid-80s and enjoyed that too. And she loved ¨giving rides to old people going to the doctor,¨ as she put it though she was frequently older than her passengers.

She had been unexpectedly widowed around the same age as I was (59) and I remember she did a lot of international travel, including cruises and trips to Europe and the Holy Land, and dabbled in the stockmarket for the first ten years of her widowhood (1960s). As she got older and the stock market was not doing so well, especially compared to inflation, in the 1970s, her travels became simpler and domestic/limited to the East Coast. In her final 10 years, her travel was local but she had a large extended family in the area and was active in her community and in her part-time work and seemed very happy. Her last two years (between her stroke at 87 and her death at 89), she was in a very nice nursing home and had a lot of visits from loving family, but she did not recognize us.
My grandmother seemed to enjoy some work at 75+ as well - what did I know at the time though?
For those that can work at that age I guess the question woudl be - do you really want to?
I know our answer to that question - others can have varied answers.
M.Lee
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by M.Lee »

Nyarlathotep wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:03 pm But I'm wondering how one could "run out of money in retirement" without numerous, obvious warning signs well in advance which would give one ample opportunity to course correct. Even if there were a sudden, prolonged plunge in the equity markets, there would still be safety nets like SS, Medicaid, and close family members to turn to for assistance.
I often wonder if the average member on this forum is aware that not everyone is a Boglehead. Not everyone has a portfolio and many don't even have a savings account. Of course many realize the warning signs and that they are in trouble or going to be in trouble. What should they do? Not everyone has a degree enabling them to work at a lucrative profession. Not everyone has an inheritance. Not everyone owns a home where they can get a reverse mortgage. The list goes on; you get my drift. My answer to the OP's question is simply "I don't know". Each case is different.
mike2468
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by mike2468 »

Let the government help you like they always do.
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5th_Dimension
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by 5th_Dimension »

My nephew apparently saves every penny he makes. I keep telling his mom that eventually he will buy a big piece of property and all of us in the family will be living there in our individual trailers on his land. That's my plan anyway! :happy
Pick up a penny and soon you'll have many.
dbr
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by dbr »

M.Lee wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:47 am
Nyarlathotep wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:03 pm But I'm wondering how one could "run out of money in retirement" without numerous, obvious warning signs well in advance which would give one ample opportunity to course correct. Even if there were a sudden, prolonged plunge in the equity markets, there would still be safety nets like SS, Medicaid, and close family members to turn to for assistance.
I often wonder if the average member on this forum is aware that not everyone is a Boglehead. Not everyone has a portfolio and many don't even have a savings account. Of course many realize the warning signs and that they are in trouble or going to be in trouble. What should they do? Not everyone has a degree enabling them to work at a lucrative profession. Not everyone has an inheritance. Not everyone owns a home where they can get a reverse mortgage. The list goes on; you get my drift. My answer to the OP's question is simply "I don't know". Each case is different.
I can tell you a close relative and two close friends of ours are in retirement on zero assets. I have become a bit of an expert on how public assistance works at least for the first case. I also know dementia, mental illness and substance abuse up-close and personal.
dewey
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by dewey »

livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 am I'd move in with my one of my girlfriends.
Howling at my computer...very funny.
“The only freedom that is of enduring importance is freedom of intelligence…” John Dewey
delamer
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by delamer »

M.Lee wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 9:47 am
Nyarlathotep wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 12:03 pm But I'm wondering how one could "run out of money in retirement" without numerous, obvious warning signs well in advance which would give one ample opportunity to course correct. Even if there were a sudden, prolonged plunge in the equity markets, there would still be safety nets like SS, Medicaid, and close family members to turn to for assistance.
I often wonder if the average member on this forum is aware that not everyone is a Boglehead. Not everyone has a portfolio and many don't even have a savings account. Of course many realize the warning signs and that they are in trouble or going to be in trouble. What should they do? Not everyone has a degree enabling them to work at a lucrative profession. Not everyone has an inheritance. Not everyone owns a home where they can get a reverse mortgage. The list goes on; you get my drift. My answer to the OP's question is simply "I don't know". Each case is different.
I don’t what the “average” person who posts here knows, but many of us are aware that something like 40% of seniors live on Social Security and no other source of income.

And most people who end up here are people with money to invest, since it’s called “Investing Advice Inspired by Jack Bogle.”

I’d assume that the vast majority of the aged who end up on Medicaid, low income senior housing, and other government programs had low income jobs and/or major health problems (physical or mental, including substance abuse).
Raraculus
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Raraculus »

Scooter57 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:38 pmThis is one reason not to head for a low tax state when you retire, because higher tax states often have far better social services for the elderly. Those services are funded by those taxes. Look at the healthcare options, too. Medicare Advantage plans in Massachusetts are far far less expensive than those in lower tax states and cover far more services. There is help for those who have trouble paying, too.

Areas filled with rich retirees who resent paying for other people's needs will be much tougher places to live if you run out of money.
That was deep. Made me think. Thanks. It's just not down to dollars and cents.
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HomerJ
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by HomerJ »

SchruteB&B wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 5:58 am
mirror wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 9:36 pm It seems like almost half of people over 55 are going to have to figure that problem out. https://www.investopedia.com/articles/p ... ce-age.asp
A 2019 Government Accountability Office study found that nearly 48% of Americans age 55 and older don’t have any retirement nest egg or a traditional pension plan.
Yes, that makes sense—isn’t it around 48% of people don’t pay any federal taxes? So that same group doesn’t make enough to pay taxes and doesn’t make enough to save. As other posters have said, millions of people live on SS alone.
Note that almost everyone pays payroll taxes, which funds Social Security. So even the people who pay zero in Federal "income" taxes, still pay into the SS system, which they then can live on in old age even if they have no other assets.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
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HomerJ
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by HomerJ »

Raraculus wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:10 pm
Scooter57 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:38 pmThis is one reason not to head for a low tax state when you retire, because higher tax states often have far better social services for the elderly. Those services are funded by those taxes. Look at the healthcare options, too. Medicare Advantage plans in Massachusetts are far far less expensive than those in lower tax states and cover far more services. There is help for those who have trouble paying, too.

Areas filled with rich retirees who resent paying for other people's needs will be much tougher places to live if you run out of money.
That was deep. Made me think. Thanks. It's just not down to dollars and cents.
Also many of the higher tax states have very progressive tax systems, where "low-income" don't pay the high tax rates.

Most people drop to a lower income bracket when they retire, and that "high-tax" state may be a "medium-tax" or even "low-tax" state for you as a retiree.
A Goldman Sachs associate provided a variety of detailed explanations, but then offered a caveat, “If I’m being dead-### honest, though, nobody knows what’s really going on.”
hiduplex
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by hiduplex »

I found this topic interesting my grandfather lived off social security for 35 years from when he retired at 62 till when he died at 97 he was a World War II vet and had a paid-off house and a very modest amount of savings no stocks or bonds. The VA really helped him with controlling healthcare cost. My mother and his other children help chip in too. He had a grand son stay with him and help with some of the expenses and upkeep of the property for his last 10 years or so. He used his saving to pay taxes and insurance otherwise everything else he could afford on social security check.

What I learned from him was the value of having a paid-off house some would say that's a paid off home is an anchor others would say that its always having a roof over your head. I owner occupy a duplex and plan to have it paid off in the next year or so. I think having the property paid off and getting social security I could live off that along with the rental income if I had to I have more saving and investment accounts but its nice to know that an option if it comes to that.

I think senior services and options are very good in Iowa. I am seeing a lot of broke boomers bailing on the coasts and then coming to Iowa because they can live off that social security check a lot of them think they are better than others because they lived in NYC or some fancy place but in the end they still got a roof over there head and a place to call home.
retire2022
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by retire2022 »

op and all

If you weren't aware there was this documentary called Grey Gardens, it is what happens when wealthy recluse slips into poverty.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grey_Gardens

Grey Gardens is a 1975 American documentary film by Albert and David Maysles. The film depicts the everyday lives of two reclusive, upper-class women, a mother and daughter both named Edith Beale, who lived in poverty at Grey Gardens, a derelict mansion at 3 West End Road in the wealthy Georgica Pond neighborhood of East Hampton, New York. The film was screened at the 1976 Cannes Film Festival but was not entered into the main competition.[3]

Edith Ewing Bouvier Beale (1895–1977), known as "Big Edie", and her daughter Edith Bouvier Beale (1917–2002), known as "Little Edie", were the aunt and the first cousin, respectively, of former US First Lady Jacqueline Kennedy Onassis. The two women lived together at the Grey Gardens estate for decades with limited funds in increasing squalor and isolation.[6]

The house was designed in 1897 by Joseph Greenleaf Thorpe and purchased in 1923 by "Big Edie" and her husband Phelan Beale. After Phelan left his wife, "Big Edie" and "Little Edie" lived there for more than 50 years. The house was called Grey Gardens because of the color of the dunes, the cement garden walls, and the sea mist.[7]

Throughout the fall of 1971 and into 1972, their living conditions—their house was infested by fleas, inhabited by numerous cats and raccoons, deprived of running water, and filled with garbage and decay—were exposed as the result of an article in the National Enquirer and a cover story in New York Magazine[8] after a series of inspections (which the Beales called "raids") by the Suffolk County Health Department. With the Beale women facing eviction and the razing of their house, in the summer of 1972 Jacqueline Onassis and her sister Lee Radziwill provided the necessary funds to stabilize and repair the dilapidated house so that it would meet village codes.

Albert and David Maysles became interested in their story and received permission to film a documentary about the women, which was released in 1976 to wide critical acclaim. Their direct cinema technique left the women to tell their own stories.
dbr
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by dbr »

hiduplex wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 2:45 pm I found this topic interesting my grandfather lived off social security for 35 years from when he retired at 62 till when he died at 97 he was a World War II vet and had a paid-off house and a very modest amount of savings no stocks or bonds. The VA really helped him with controlling healthcare cost. My mother and his other children help chip in too. He had a grand son stay with him and help with some of the expenses and upkeep of the property for his last 10 years or so. He used his saving to pay taxes and insurance otherwise everything else he could afford on social security check.
People may want to know that many veterans benefits are from state rather than Federal VA, including all VA homes, distinct from VA hospitals. Iowa may be one of the better states in that regard. https://va.iowa.gov/benefits
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by mirror »

livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 am I'd move in with my one of my girlfriends.
I think we see why you ran out of money!
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Trader Joe »

"What happens if you run out of money in retirement?"

Then it would be time for you to get back to work and make some money to live on.

Or, you could try to live off the kindness of friends/relatives.

Your last resort would probably be for you to panhandle on the street and dumpster dive.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by tcassette »

livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:58 am
HueyLD wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:56 am
livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 am I'd move in with my one of my girlfriends.
Well, the girlfriends may not want the burden of an old broke man. :wink:
I have other assets.
Yes, but aren't we talking fungible assets here?
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by livesoft »

tcassette wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:29 pmYes, but aren't we talking fungible assets here?
I don't think so. I thought we are talking about hard assets. Live soft, but die hard.
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Raymond
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Raymond »

livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:51 pm
tcassette wrote: Tue Aug 11, 2020 6:29 pmYes, but aren't we talking fungible assets here?
I don't think so. I thought we are talking about hard assets. Live soft, but die hard.
<snort> :D

My plan if I run out of money in retirement (the future needs to get here faster): "Old Man's War" - Amazon.com

It does have some downsides, though :twisted:
"Ritter, Tod und Teufel"
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by jello_nailer »

livesoft wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:25 am I'd move in with my one of my girlfriends.
The 27 y.o. or the 82 y.o.?
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by pennywise »

MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 pm

When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
Winston should have credited his source:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

― Mark Twain
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Stef »

Well if my assets went below 300k I would srsly consider moving to Thailand, Eastern Europe or any other cheap region. SS is 2-3x more than doctors are making in those places, so you can keep living a good life.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by randomguy »

pennywise wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:14 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 pm

When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
Winston should have credited his source:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

― Mark Twain
How do you give credit for a quote you didn't say to a guy who also didn't say his?:) There is basically no evidence that Mark Twain ever said your quote and even less that Winston said his. Both quotes are reflections of general wisdom and Churchill and Twain's name tend to get attached to these type of quotes. See https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/and-n ... all-tweet/ among other discussions on the topic. Basically anytime you see a Winston or Twain quote, you have to look it up cause the odds are it is something they never said.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Brandon4454 »

My mom is 73 and has charged up her credit cards. She has some land and a house she can take the equity out of, but she has been living beyond her means on social security for 25 years since my dad died. I guess if she spends everything then she can come live with me. Thank god for social security allowing her to be independent this long. My brother and his family make decent money and I save a lot of money so if we have to subsidize her living we can. I just hate to live extremely frugally while I'm paying for her $200/month cable bill, but she did help with my college costs. She just spends so much on designer flowers and yard supplies that it eats away at anything she gets on SS.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by randomguy »

Stef wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 am Well if my assets went below 300k I would srsly consider moving to Thailand, Eastern Europe or any other cheap region. SS is 2-3x more than doctors are making in those places, so you can keep living a good life.
I seriously doubt very many 80+ year olds have the ability to move to Thailand or Eastern Europe or any of the cheap cost of living areas. I am not sure that the quality of nursing homes overseas is going to be that much different than medicaid AND having to deal with different cultures is likely to be rough at that point in life. You would be better off going overseas for 10 years from 60-70 in my opinion....
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Brandon4454 »

pennywise wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:14 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 pm

When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
Winston should have credited his source:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

― Mark Twain
That is a great quote.
Last edited by Brandon4454 on Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by livesoft »

randomguy wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:48 amBasically anytime you see a Winston or Twain quote, you have to look it up cause the odds are it is something they never said.
And that's a fact!
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by VictoriaF »

randomguy wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:56 am
Stef wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 am Well if my assets went below 300k I would srsly consider moving to Thailand, Eastern Europe or any other cheap region. SS is 2-3x more than doctors are making in those places, so you can keep living a good life.
I seriously doubt very many 80+ year olds have the ability to move to Thailand or Eastern Europe or any of the cheap cost of living areas. I am not sure that the quality of nursing homes overseas is going to be that much different than medicaid AND having to deal with different cultures is likely to be rough at that point in life. You would be better off going overseas for 10 years from 60-70 in my opinion....
I agree with you in general. But specifically, this could work out under certain circumstances. For example, I am a fluent Russian speaker and familiar with the culture. If I moved to a Russian-speaking country, I would not have communications problems. Also, as an American, I would get more attention and respect from nurses and support stuff.

Having said that, I am not likely to run out of money until I am 130 years old. Let's revisit the topic then.

Victoria
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by deltaneutral83 »

Brandon4454 wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:54 am I guess if she spends everything then she can come live with me. Thank god for social security allowing her to be independent this long.
Well somebody on her tax return worked for the SS and contributed into it. It probably amounts to contributions keeping up with inflation for high earners and not much better for low earners. Nonetheless, it's often, the first, middle, and last line of defense for many sadly.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Millennial »

dbr wrote: Tue Aug 04, 2020 11:51 am One thing that is interesting is that I do know people who live with family but essentially no one who has gone back to the college style of living with a roommate or two in old age.
This is somewhat common around me. I live in a (V)HCOL city which, pre-gentrification, was blue collar. Retirees often want to stay, but the taxes and expenses of maintaining a house that was once big enough for their whole family are too much for a single person. There are two houses on my block where folks have moved in together to split those costs, and there are a bunch more throughout our little city. It allows them to stay in the area they love.

In one case, two widowers moved in together, and the next generation (his daughter, son in law, and two girls) moved in to the house he vacated.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by smitcat »

Raraculus wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 2:10 pm
Scooter57 wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 6:38 pmThis is one reason not to head for a low tax state when you retire, because higher tax states often have far better social services for the elderly. Those services are funded by those taxes. Look at the healthcare options, too. Medicare Advantage plans in Massachusetts are far far less expensive than those in lower tax states and cover far more services. There is help for those who have trouble paying, too.

Areas filled with rich retirees who resent paying for other people's needs will be much tougher places to live if you run out of money.
That was deep. Made me think. Thanks. It's just not down to dollars and cents.
Medicaire advantage costs by state for those interested in data....
https://www.healthmarkets.com/content/m ... osts-index
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by randomguy »

VictoriaF wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 9:04 am
randomguy wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:56 am
Stef wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:39 am Well if my assets went below 300k I would srsly consider moving to Thailand, Eastern Europe or any other cheap region. SS is 2-3x more than doctors are making in those places, so you can keep living a good life.
I seriously doubt very many 80+ year olds have the ability to move to Thailand or Eastern Europe or any of the cheap cost of living areas. I am not sure that the quality of nursing homes overseas is going to be that much different than medicaid AND having to deal with different cultures is likely to be rough at that point in life. You would be better off going overseas for 10 years from 60-70 in my opinion....
I agree with you in general. But specifically, this could work out under certain circumstances. For example, I am a fluent Russian speaker and familiar with the culture. If I moved to a Russian-speaking country, I would not have communications problems. Also, as an American, I would get more attention and respect from nurses and support stuff.

Having said that, I am not likely to run out of money until I am 130 years old. Let's revisit the topic then.

Victoria
Given the difficulty that most 80 year olds have in adjusting to a nursing home in communities they are familiar with, I am very suspect of your ability to go to one 5000 mi away where you have no friends and family. Now tell me you have family their that you are familiar with and who are willing to take you in exchange for your inflated american dollars and I think you might have a plan. [Offensive comment removed by Moderator Misenplace.]

I think moving abroad as an 80 year old has about the same viability as getting a job. The number of people who can pull off either is going to be low. Obviously down at 65 or 70 both become a lot more viable options.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by dknightd »

It is a scary thought. I'm going to do the best I can to make sure this does not happen to me, or my wife.
Perhaps a related question is what do you do if your parents run out of money?
I think my parents will be OK. My MIL came really close. We helped her occasionally. She pretended she had no money, lived accordingly, then left a small IRA to her kids.
If I have my wits about me, I'll cut spending to the bone. Probably 1/2 of what we spend is not required to stay alive. Hopefully I'll have a few years warning to adjust to the new lifestyle. I think we could live on SS and a small pension and a small annuity.
If push came to shove I might ask my kids or friends for help, but that is very unlikely, more likely I'd check in to whatever the government would provide.
I'm 99% sure we will be OK. But there is always the 1% chance I'm wrong.
I do not know "What happens if you run out of money in retirement". I do know I'll do my best to make sure that never happens to me. I'm pretty sure some people retire with no money to start with. I assume they get taken care of some how. I assume I'm helping to pay for that. But you know what they say about "assume".
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by dknightd »

randomguy wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:48 am
pennywise wrote: Wed Aug 12, 2020 8:14 am
MathIsMyWayr wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 11:49 pm

When I was 16, I thought my parents knew nothing. When I was 21, I was shocked to discover how much they had picked up in the last 5 years. - Winston Churchill
Winston should have credited his source:

“When I was a boy of 14, my father was so ignorant I could hardly stand to have the old man around. But when I got to be 21, I was astonished at how much the old man had learned in seven years.”

― Mark Twain
How do you give credit for a quote you didn't say to a guy who also didn't say his?:) There is basically no evidence that Mark Twain ever said your quote and even less that Winston said his. Both quotes are reflections of general wisdom and Churchill and Twain's name tend to get attached to these type of quotes. See https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/and-n ... all-tweet/ among other discussions on the topic. Basically anytime you see a Winston or Twain quote, you have to look it up cause the odds are it is something they never said.
I'm pretty sure that both of them said it at some point in their lives. I'm pretty sure that people hae been saying the same thing for thousands and thousands or years. It is part of growing up.
If you value a bird in the hand, pay off the loan. If you are willing to risk getting two birds (or none) from the market, invest the funds. Retired 9/19. Still working on mortgage payoff.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Stef »

I'm pretty sure if a 3-4% withdrawal rate lets you run out of money within 25-30 years the economy will be in a terrible state. We are talking about 0% real return over several decades.
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Re: What happens if you run out of money in retirement?

Post by Tejfyy »

I'd start living off credit cards, paying only the minimum each month, then dying with a bunch of debt no survivor is obliged to pay.
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