[Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

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index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

Ok, so I have an HSA with Further through my employer. Further only charges an annual account maintenance fee of $1/month, which my employer covers. I have to keep $1000 in the base balance before I can invest the rest in Vanguard index funds with Devenir. Devenir charges me $18/year to use their investment portal.

If I open an HSA with Fidelity, I have some questions about rules and fees. My goal is to invest everything and reimburse myself for medical expenses in retirement.

1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?

2. I still want to maintain my employer’s HSA with Further to avoid FICA taxes on my paycheck contributions and receive HSA contributions from my employer (I doubt they want the headache of depositing money into Fidelity directly).

What are the official methods I can use to move employer and employee HSA contributions from Further to Fidelity? I have heard of trustee-trustee (direct) transfers and HSA rollovers (Further mails me a check that I deposit into Fidelity myself). Are those the only two that avoid taxes and penalties?

3. Further said they charge no fees to transfer money out, but that they do not initiate these. I have to contact Fidelity to initiate this, apparently.

I would do this every month to pull out my employer’s monthly contributions and place them with Fidelity?
mbentley
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by mbentley »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm
1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?

2. I still want to maintain my employer’s HSA with Further to avoid FICA taxes on my paycheck contributions and receive HSA contributions from my employer (I doubt they want the headache of depositing money into Fidelity directly).

What are the official methods I can use to move employer and employee HSA contributions from Further to Fidelity? I have heard of trustee-trustee (direct) transfers and HSA rollovers (Further mails me a check that I deposit into Fidelity myself). Are those the only two that avoid taxes and penalties?

3. Further said they charge no fees to transfer money out, but that they do not initiate these. I have to contact Fidelity to initiate this, apparently.

I would do this every month to pull out my employer’s monthly contributions and place them with Fidelity?
1. As far as I can tell Fidelity charges no fees

2. I also have an employer provided HSA account (not w/ Further or Fidelity). I do contributions via paycheck deduction, and then about once a year I transfer all but ~$100 to Fidelity via a direct transfer

3. Once you open an account, you can fill out an online form with Fidelity with all the info for the other account and how much you want to transfer, and Fidelity will take care of the paperwork and get the money from your other account. This takes a few weeks, so it might not be realistic to do more than once or twice a year.
Polymorphic
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Polymorphic »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm 1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?
There are no fees for the Fidelity HSA. All my HSA money at Fidelity is invested in Vanguard ETFs, which are commission-free.
index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

Polymorphic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:57 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm 1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?
There are no fees for the Fidelity HSA. All my HSA money at Fidelity is invested in Vanguard ETFs, which are commission-free.
It looks like Fidelity even gives individual HSA account holders the option to open a regular HSA brokerage account.

Does this mean you can buy their regular total US stock market fund (FSKAX) or even the zero-expense ratio total us stock market fund (FZROX) and pay nothing in fees at all? That seems like a pretty sweet deal!

If that's the case, how the heck can Fidelity make money if all I do is open a free, individual HSA account and use it to buy their FZROX fund?
Polymorphic
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Polymorphic »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:06 pm
Polymorphic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:57 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm 1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?
There are no fees for the Fidelity HSA. All my HSA money at Fidelity is invested in Vanguard ETFs, which are commission-free.
It looks like Fidelity even gives individual HSA account holders the option to open a regular HSA brokerage account.

Does this mean you can buy their regular total US stock market fund (FSKAX) or even the zero-expense ratio total us stock market fund (FZROX) and pay nothing in fees at all? That seems like a pretty sweet deal!

If that's the case, how the heck can Fidelity make money if all I do is open a free, individual HSA account and use it to buy their FZROX fund?
Yes, the Fidelity HSA functions pretty much like their standard brokerage account. The only difference I've noticed is that the HSA's "core" position is FDIC-insured.

As to how it's profitable for Fidelity, well...they're probably hoping all the takers aren't Bogleheads.
index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

Polymorphic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:12 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:06 pm
Polymorphic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:57 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm 1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?
There are no fees for the Fidelity HSA. All my HSA money at Fidelity is invested in Vanguard ETFs, which are commission-free.
It looks like Fidelity even gives individual HSA account holders the option to open a regular HSA brokerage account.

Does this mean you can buy their regular total US stock market fund (FSKAX) or even the zero-expense ratio total us stock market fund (FZROX) and pay nothing in fees at all? That seems like a pretty sweet deal!

If that's the case, how the heck can Fidelity make money if all I do is open a free, individual HSA account and use it to buy their FZROX fund?
Yes, the Fidelity HSA functions pretty much like their standard brokerage account. The only difference I've noticed is that the HSA's "core" position is FDIC-insured.

As to how it's profitable for Fidelity, well...they're probably hoping all the takers aren't Bogleheads.
Hmm, that's what I thought. They're hoping not all of us are smart enough to realize that we could just sign up for their zero-expense-ratio TSM fund. I am a Vanguard die-hard, but love the idea of getting something for free from Fidelity.

Not sure how funds sitting in HSAs or retirement accounts are segregated from the rest of their business. Maybe they still make a buck lending those securities out to short-sellers and using their proprietary TSM index, which avoids paying Dow Jones or CRSP for theirs?
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jeffyscott
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by jeffyscott »

Polymorphic wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:12 pm The only difference I've noticed is that the HSA's "core" position is FDIC-insured.
You can change the core position, not that there's any reason to bother at this time.
index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

I found a 2019 article from WCI outlining how he switched to Fidelity for his HSA and put his contributions towards the FZROX zero-expense ratio TSM fund too.

https://www.whitecoatinvestor.com/fidel ... sa-review/

Too funny!

I guess I'd like to save on the $18/year Devenir charges me through Further to invest my HSA dollars over the $1000 minimum threshold that I have in Vanguard index funds currently. You have all convinced me to make the switch! Still consider myself a Vanguard die-hard though.
snowman
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by snowman »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm I guess I'd like to save on the $18/year Devenir charges me through Further to invest my HSA dollars over the $1000 minimum threshold that I have in Vanguard index funds currently. You have all convinced me to make the switch! Still consider myself a Vanguard die-hard though.
And that's precisely why Fidelity did it - there is nobody out there offering better HSA account, not even close. So even a Vanguard diehard like yourself who will try Fidelity products and services will want to transfer more of their money to Fidelity. Win-win.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by dcabler »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 2:14 pm Ok, so I have an HSA with Further through my employer. Further only charges an annual account maintenance fee of $1/month, which my employer covers. I have to keep $1000 in the base balance before I can invest the rest in Vanguard index funds with Devenir. Devenir charges me $18/year to use their investment portal.

If I open an HSA with Fidelity, I have some questions about rules and fees. My goal is to invest everything and reimburse myself for medical expenses in retirement.

1. Aside from paying expense ratios for Fidelity’s large-, mid- and small-cap blend index funds, it appears Fidelity charges no other fees. Is that true? Nothing for account maintenance or even one-time fees?

2. I still want to maintain my employer’s HSA with Further to avoid FICA taxes on my paycheck contributions and receive HSA contributions from my employer (I doubt they want the headache of depositing money into Fidelity directly).

What are the official methods I can use to move employer and employee HSA contributions from Further to Fidelity? I have heard of trustee-trustee (direct) transfers and HSA rollovers (Further mails me a check that I deposit into Fidelity myself). Are those the only two that avoid taxes and penalties?

3. Further said they charge no fees to transfer money out, but that they do not initiate these. I have to contact Fidelity to initiate this, apparently.

I would do this every month to pull out my employer’s monthly contributions and place them with Fidelity?
1. There are no fees other than the e/r's of funds you choose. I have 2 Fido mutual funds and 2 ishares ETF's. No commissions for any ETFs.
2. I do likewise with my employer's HSA through HealthEquity

Those are the two choices.
1. For trustee-trustee transfers, which is what I do, you can initiate it from your employer's HSA's end or from Fidelity's end. I've done both and for me, HealthEquity initiated took about 2 weeks and Fidelity initiated took about 3 weeks. So I always initiate it from HealthEquity. HealthEquity doesn't use ACH - they cut a check and send directly to Fidelity. You can do this as often as you like. I do it whenever the cash position at HealthEquity reaches around $1000 (which for me is every 3 pay periods), being careful to keep the minimum $25 in my HealthEquity account that they require.
2. HSA rollovers which you can do only once a year and is as you describe.
index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

snowman wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:58 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm I guess I'd like to save on the $18/year Devenir charges me through Further to invest my HSA dollars over the $1000 minimum threshold that I have in Vanguard index funds currently. You have all convinced me to make the switch! Still consider myself a Vanguard die-hard though.
And that's precisely why Fidelity did it - there is nobody out there offering better HSA account, not even close. So even a Vanguard diehard like yourself who will try Fidelity products and services will want to transfer more of their money to Fidelity. Win-win.
Don't think I'll do any other business with Fidelity other than use them as a loss-leader for my HSA investing. This probably explains why Vanguard won't get into this game. They don't want to get into the loss-leader marketing model for their products.

Still, costs matter and I hate throwing away $18/year just to buy some Vanguard funds through Devenir. Guess Fidelity's got my HSA business.

Maybe they can still make money lending securities held by the FZROX mutual fund, even ones inside HSAs to make money? IDK
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by manatee2005 »

index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:08 pm
snowman wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:58 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm I guess I'd like to save on the $18/year Devenir charges me through Further to invest my HSA dollars over the $1000 minimum threshold that I have in Vanguard index funds currently. You have all convinced me to make the switch! Still consider myself a Vanguard die-hard though.
And that's precisely why Fidelity did it - there is nobody out there offering better HSA account, not even close. So even a Vanguard diehard like yourself who will try Fidelity products and services will want to transfer more of their money to Fidelity. Win-win.
Don't think I'll do any other business with Fidelity other than use them as a loss-leader for my HSA investing. This probably explains why Vanguard won't get into this game. They don't want to get into the loss-leader marketing model for their products.

Still, costs matter and I hate throwing away $18/year just to buy some Vanguard funds through Devenir. Guess Fidelity's got my HSA business.

Maybe they can still make money lending securities held by the FZROX mutual fund, even ones inside HSAs to make money? IDK
Why are you a Vanguard die hard? You have to continuously evaluate your options without emotional connection. Saying you are a die hard of something implies emotional connection that is not letting you make a rational decision.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by manatee2005 »

TresBelle65 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am Any updates to this thread? Any recommendations for as seamless as possible of a transfer to Fidelity?

Thank you.
Best thing is to ask your HR.
index2max
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

manatee2005 wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 4:19 am
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:08 pm
snowman wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:58 pm
index2max wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 3:49 pm I guess I'd like to save on the $18/year Devenir charges me through Further to invest my HSA dollars over the $1000 minimum threshold that I have in Vanguard index funds currently. You have all convinced me to make the switch! Still consider myself a Vanguard die-hard though.
And that's precisely why Fidelity did it - there is nobody out there offering better HSA account, not even close. So even a Vanguard diehard like yourself who will try Fidelity products and services will want to transfer more of their money to Fidelity. Win-win.
Don't think I'll do any other business with Fidelity other than use them as a loss-leader for my HSA investing. This probably explains why Vanguard won't get into this game. They don't want to get into the loss-leader marketing model for their products.

Still, costs matter and I hate throwing away $18/year just to buy some Vanguard funds through Devenir. Guess Fidelity's got my HSA business.

Maybe they can still make money lending securities held by the FZROX mutual fund, even ones inside HSAs to make money? IDK
Why are you a Vanguard die hard? You have to continuously evaluate your options without emotional connection. Saying you are a die hard of something implies emotional connection that is not letting you make a rational decision.
There are plenty of things I don't like about Vanguard (outsourcing 401(k) department's IT and call center staff to Infosys in India), but I love that they are a mutual company, which gives me some say in their operations. At Fidelity, I am just a customer. It's not an emotional connection for me, but a rational one. If Vanguard didn't have Jack Bogle at the helm, advocating for passive index investing and cutting costs, would the other big brokerage firms ever had any motivation to cut their costs either?

Wish a bunch of credit unions got together to form a co-operative, mutual investment company to compete with Vanguard :D
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Hebell »

My husband has an HSA through his employer which he puts $1 in every year. We had no interest in the investment options there.

So, We had our HSAs at HSA Bank with Devinir. We fully funded them less $1.

We move them to Fidelity 3 months ago. No problems took just under 2 weeks if I recall. My husband already had a 401k brokerage account and it shows up there, on the left hand side in the account list.

Fidelity administers my pension from a large defense contractor. So when I moved my HSA to Fidelity, it also showed up in the list on the left hand side

HSA Bank took a $25 transfer fee.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by xerxes101 »

TresBelle65 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am Any updates to this thread? Any recommendations for as seamless as possible of a transfer to Fidelity?

Thank you.
The only update I have is that the process is not seamless at all at the moment. Based on what Fidelity has admitted to in their messages, they are extremely short-handed and seems like they have dropped the ball on a lot of transfer requests. The trading volumes being reported now are absolutely out of this world and it seems like transfers have taken a back seat for them for now. I have been trying to transfer my brokerage HSA account to Fidelity for months now without any luck. I invite others to make a comment about that and share their experiences.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by djheini »

xerxes101 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:07 am
TresBelle65 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am Any updates to this thread? Any recommendations for as seamless as possible of a transfer to Fidelity?

Thank you.
The only update I have is that the process is not seamless at all at the moment. Based on what Fidelity has admitted to in their messages, they are extremely short-handed and seems like they have dropped the ball on a lot of transfer requests. The trading volumes being reported now are absolutely out of this world and it seems like transfers have taken a back seat for them for now. I have been trying to transfer my brokerage HSA account to Fidelity for months now without any luck. I invite others to make a comment about that and share their experiences.
My recent transfer from Payflex went alright. Requested it online on 3/25 and it was completed with funds available in my Fidelity HSA on 4/13. Full account transfer with only cash.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by billthecat »

Could I do a transfer in kind of VITSX?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by LadyGeek »

Last month, I withdrew all of my Fidelity HSA funds to cover unreimbursed medical expenses. Or so I thought. At the end of the month, I got 0.05 interest for the balance in the account prior to the withdrawal.

It turns out I did a partial withdrawal, but I didn't see any options for a full withdrawal (all shares). The balance was zero and I thought I was done. Guess not.

I now have $0.05 sitting in my HSA. I have more than $0.05 in unreimbursed medical expenses, so I could probably close out the account. Or, just let it sit.
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mbentley
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by mbentley »

Hebell wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:39 am My husband has an HSA through his employer which he puts $1 in every year. We had no interest in the investment options there.

So, We had our HSAs at HSA Bank with Devinir. We fully funded them less $1.
FYI, if you contribute to your HSA through payroll deductions you also skip FICA tax: so 7.65% if you're under the SS maximum, or 1.45% otherwise. I think the guaranteed 7.65% is definitely worth it, but I guess it's up to you whether the 1.45% tax savings on $3.5k or $7k is worth the hassle of transferring to Fidelity yearly or quarterly or monthly (and missing out on some number of months of time in the market).
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Hebell »

mbentley wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 1:48 pm
Hebell wrote: Sat Apr 17, 2021 10:39 am My husband has an HSA through his employer which he puts $1 in every year. We had no interest in the investment options there.

So, We had our HSAs at HSA Bank with Devinir. We fully funded them less $1.
FYI, if you contribute to your HSA through payroll deductions you also skip FICA tax: so 7.65% if you're under the SS maximum, or 1.45% otherwise. I think the guaranteed 7.65% is definitely worth it, but I guess it's up to you whether the 1.45% tax savings on $3.5k or $7k is worth the hassle of transferring to Fidelity yearly or quarterly or monthly (and missing out on some number of months of time in the market).
We do not do it through payroll. We wanted complete control over our HSA accounts
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by VictoriaF »

LadyGeek wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 9:34 am I now have $0.05 sitting in my HSA. I have more than $0.05 in unreimbursed medical expenses, so I could probably close out the account. Or, just let it sit.
My two cents is to let it sit. If you combine it with your cents, it'll make it seven cents.

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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Lyrrad »

dcabler wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm Those are the two choices.
1. For trustee-trustee transfers, which is what I do, you can initiate it from your employer's HSA's end or from Fidelity's end. I've done both and for me, HealthEquity initiated took about 2 weeks and Fidelity initiated took about 3 weeks. So I always initiate it from HealthEquity. HealthEquity doesn't use ACH - they cut a check and send directly to Fidelity. You can do this as often as you like. I do it whenever the cash position at HealthEquity reaches around $1000 (which for me is every 3 pay periods), being careful to keep the minimum $25 in my HealthEquity account that they require.
2. HSA rollovers which you can do only once a year and is as you describe.
I adjust my paycheck HSA contributions to maximize my HSA contributions for the year from my paycheck in January and perform the trustee to trustee transfer to Fidelity once a year.

My employer uses HealthEquity, and I perform a full transfer each year, which "closes" my HSA account. However, it is automatically reopened for me every January on my first pay date. My employer has an agreement to waive the account closure fee while employed.

Note that rollovers, where one receives the HSA funds and has 60 days to roll it into the other HSA account are limited to one per rolling 12 month period, so one should carefully monitor the date of the prior rollover if one does this every year. Transfers have no limit.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by charis23 »

Lyrrad wrote: Sat Apr 24, 2021 10:22 pm
dcabler wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 4:06 pm Those are the two choices.
1. For trustee-trustee transfers, which is what I do, you can initiate it from your employer's HSA's end or from Fidelity's end. I've done both and for me, HealthEquity initiated took about 2 weeks and Fidelity initiated took about 3 weeks. So I always initiate it from HealthEquity. HealthEquity doesn't use ACH - they cut a check and send directly to Fidelity. You can do this as often as you like. I do it whenever the cash position at HealthEquity reaches around $1000 (which for me is every 3 pay periods), being careful to keep the minimum $25 in my HealthEquity account that they require.
2. HSA rollovers which you can do only once a year and is as you describe.
I adjust my paycheck HSA contributions to maximize my HSA contributions for the year from my paycheck in January and perform the trustee to trustee transfer to Fidelity once a year.

My employer uses HealthEquity, and I perform a full transfer each year, which "closes" my HSA account. However, it is automatically reopened for me every January on my first pay date. My employer has an agreement to waive the account closure fee while employed.

Note that rollovers, where one receives the HSA funds and has 60 days to roll it into the other HSA account are limited to one per rolling 12 month period, so one should carefully monitor the date of the prior rollover if one does this every year. Transfers have no limit.
I did the same. I did a full transfer from Health Equity to Fidelity this year and plan to do it every year I have a HDHP.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by anon_investor »

xerxes101 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:07 am
TresBelle65 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am Any updates to this thread? Any recommendations for as seamless as possible of a transfer to Fidelity?

Thank you.
The only update I have is that the process is not seamless at all at the moment. Based on what Fidelity has admitted to in their messages, they are extremely short-handed and seems like they have dropped the ball on a lot of transfer requests. The trading volumes being reported now are absolutely out of this world and it seems like transfers have taken a back seat for them for now. I have been trying to transfer my brokerage HSA account to Fidelity for months now without any luck. I invite others to make a comment about that and share their experiences.
Why not do an indirect rollover?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by dcabler »

xerxes101 wrote: Sun Apr 18, 2021 8:07 am
TresBelle65 wrote: Wed Jan 13, 2021 9:49 am Any updates to this thread? Any recommendations for as seamless as possible of a transfer to Fidelity?

Thank you.
The only update I have is that the process is not seamless at all at the moment. Based on what Fidelity has admitted to in their messages, they are extremely short-handed and seems like they have dropped the ball on a lot of transfer requests. The trading volumes being reported now are absolutely out of this world and it seems like transfers have taken a back seat for them for now. I have been trying to transfer my brokerage HSA account to Fidelity for months now without any luck. I invite others to make a comment about that and share their experiences.
I did my first transfer to Fidelity back in February, initiated from the Fidelity side. Took 3 weeks.
I did the second and all subsequent transfer initiated from the HealthEquity side. Took 2 weeks.

Will continue to initiate from the HealthEquity side - less work for Fidelity to do: all they need to do is deposit the check when they receive it. Too bad they can't do an ACH transfer.

Are you trying to do an "in-kind" transfer or are you moving cash over? I'm doing the latter...

cheers.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

FYI, Fidelity has the ability to do indirect transfers electronically - no check or postage needed. I was able to roll over from Optum without leaving my couch.

1. Took a withdrawal from Optum.

2. Called Fidelity, asked them to do a bank transfer and code it as a “60 day rollover”.

You can’t do this on their website yet; need to call.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:42 pm FYI, Fidelity has the ability to do indirect transfers electronically - no check or postage needed. I was able to roll over from Optum without leaving my couch.

1. Took a withdrawal from Optum.

2. Called Fidelity, asked them to do a bank transfer and code it as a “60 day rollover”.

You can’t do this on their website yet; need to call.
If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:57 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
Ok, that's what I figured. My employer uses Further as the HSA provider and they provide free trustee-to-trustee transfers, but only a paper check is mailed out. No in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash.

The HSA business is in definite need of more cost-cutting, but I don't know if Fidelity is the one to lead the charge. Us Bogleheads putting out money into the zero-expense ratio total US stock market fund FZROX ( :twisted: ) isn't exactly making a lot of money for Fidelity on their HSAs...
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:28 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:57 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
Ok, that's what I figured. My employer uses Further as the HSA provider and they provide free trustee-to-trustee transfers, but only a paper check is mailed out. No in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash.

The HSA business is in definite need of more cost-cutting, but I don't know if Fidelity is the one to lead the charge. Us Bogleheads putting out money into the zero-expense ratio total US stock market fund FZROX ( :twisted: ) isn't exactly making a lot of money for Fidelity on their HSAs...
At least with FZROX you add to Fidelity’s AUM, so you might be helping their marketing department. I put it all in VT, so I don’t know how Fidelity would make money off me :)
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:46 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:28 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:57 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
Ok, that's what I figured. My employer uses Further as the HSA provider and they provide free trustee-to-trustee transfers, but only a paper check is mailed out. No in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash.

The HSA business is in definite need of more cost-cutting, but I don't know if Fidelity is the one to lead the charge. Us Bogleheads putting out money into the zero-expense ratio total US stock market fund FZROX ( :twisted: ) isn't exactly making a lot of money for Fidelity on their HSAs...
At least with FZROX you add to Fidelity’s AUM, so you might be helping their marketing department. I put it all in VT, so I don’t know how Fidelity would make money off me :)
Heh, yeah, I remember when fidelity was like vanguard before this whole zero-commission fad started in 2020.

Both firms offered select ETFs commission-free (namely their own). But since Fidelity cancelled stock-trading commissions, this means you could hypothetically buy and hold a Vanguard ETF such as US stock market (VTI) for free in your Fidelity HSA?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:57 pm But since Fidelity cancelled stock-trading commissions, this means you could hypothetically buy and hold a Vanguard ETF such as US stock market (VTI) for free in your Fidelity HSA?
This is what I do. My Fidelity HSA is invested entirely in Vanguard's total world ETF (VT).

(My state treats HSAs as taxable accounts, so I prefer ETFs for tax efficiency).
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 9:27 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:57 pm But since Fidelity cancelled stock-trading commissions, this means you could hypothetically buy and hold a Vanguard ETF such as US stock market (VTI) for free in your Fidelity HSA?
This is what I do. My Fidelity HSA is invested entirely in Vanguard's total world ETF (VT).

(My state treats HSAs as taxable accounts, so I prefer ETFs for tax efficiency).
Yeah, if treated as a taxable account, yeah it makes sense to buy an equity-holding ETF if you are ok with a little bit of taxes on the dividends vs buying government bonds, which pay close to nothing in real terms.

I find it tempting to do the FZROX total us stock market fund fidelity offers in the HSA just for giggles, but buying a Vanguard ETF does sound funnier :twisted:

In my case I don't have to worry about my HSA dividends or capital gains being taxed, so the difference of a few basis points is probably all noise when the choice of index matters more.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by isubrama »

index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:28 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:57 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
Ok, that's what I figured. My employer uses Further as the HSA provider and they provide free trustee-to-trustee transfers, but only a paper check is mailed out. No in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash.

The HSA business is in definite need of more cost-cutting, but I don't know if Fidelity is the one to lead the charge. Us Bogleheads putting out money into the zero-expense ratio total US stock market fund FZROX ( :twisted: ) isn't exactly making a lot of money for Fidelity on their HSAs...
FYI, FZROX is not offered outside Fidelity.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by billthecat »

okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:42 pm FYI, Fidelity has the ability to do indirect transfers electronically - no check or postage needed. I was able to roll over from Optum without leaving my couch.

1. Took a withdrawal from Optum.

2. Called Fidelity, asked them to do a bank transfer and code it as a “60 day rollover”.

You can’t do this on their website yet; need to call.
Does that mean you had Optum mail you a check?

And then you called Fidelity and gave them the bank info from the check?

Just trying the understand the mechanics of this a bit more.
Last edited by billthecat on Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

billthecat wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:59 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:42 pm FYI, Fidelity has the ability to do indirect transfers electronically - no check or postage needed. I was able to roll over from Optum without leaving my couch.

1. Took a withdrawal from Optum.

2. Called Fidelity, asked them to do a bank transfer and code it as a “60 day rollover”.

You can’t do this on their website yet; need to call.
Does that mean you had Optum mail you a check?

And then you called Fidelity and gave them the bank info from the check?

Just trying the understand the mechanics of this a bit more.
No, I did an electronic transfer from Optum to my checking account (using the “reimburse yourself” option on Optum’s website), and waited a day for the cash to appear in my bank balance. Then I called Fidelity and asked them to transfer the same amount from my bank to the Fidelity HSA, and code the transaction as a 60-day rollover.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by billthecat »

okwriter wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 11:23 pm
billthecat wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:59 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:42 pm FYI, Fidelity has the ability to do indirect transfers electronically - no check or postage needed. I was able to roll over from Optum without leaving my couch.

1. Took a withdrawal from Optum.

2. Called Fidelity, asked them to do a bank transfer and code it as a “60 day rollover”.

You can’t do this on their website yet; need to call.
Does that mean you had Optum mail you a check?

And then you called Fidelity and gave them the bank info from the check?

Just trying the understand the mechanics of this a bit more.
No, I did an electronic transfer from Optum to my checking account (using the “reimburse yourself” option on Optum’s website), and waited a day for the cash to appear in my bank balance. Then I called Fidelity and asked them to transfer the same amount from my bank to the Fidelity HSA, and code the transaction as a 60-day rollover.
:sharebeer
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

isubrama wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 10:12 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 8:28 pm
okwriter wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:57 pm
index2max wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:51 pm If it's a "rollover", doesn't that mean you are restricted to performing this type of transfer only once per year?
Yes, that’s true. But Optum charges me $20 if I do a direct transfer. Indirect transfers don’t have that fee, so I’m fine with the once-a-year restriction.
Ok, that's what I figured. My employer uses Further as the HSA provider and they provide free trustee-to-trustee transfers, but only a paper check is mailed out. No in-kind transfers or even electronic transfers of cash.

The HSA business is in definite need of more cost-cutting, but I don't know if Fidelity is the one to lead the charge. Us Bogleheads putting out money into the zero-expense ratio total US stock market fund FZROX ( :twisted: ) isn't exactly making a lot of money for Fidelity on their HSAs...
FYI, FZROX is not offered outside Fidelity.
Yup, I understand. It's their index fund. It's not an ETF you can buy elsewhere.

I was debating whether or not to put invest my HSA balance at Fidelity in FZROX for $0 in expenses charged to me or just buy VTI for 0.03%. I would pick the later in case I ever decided to move my money to another HSA provider that accepted in-kind transfers of investments.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by jeffyscott »

index2max wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:35 amI was debating whether or not to put invest my HSA balance at Fidelity in FZROX for $0 in expenses charged to me or just buy VTI for 0.03%. I would pick the later in case I ever decided to move my money to another HSA provider that accepted in-kind transfers of investments.
Since it is not a taxable account, you could just sell FZROX and buy the ETF or something else that would transfer in-kind, in the (I think unlikely) event that there were both a reason to move elsewhere and the elsewhere accepted in-kind transfers.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by index2max »

jeffyscott wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:56 am
index2max wrote: Thu Apr 29, 2021 7:35 amI was debating whether or not to put invest my HSA balance at Fidelity in FZROX for $0 in expenses charged to me or just buy VTI for 0.03%. I would pick the later in case I ever decided to move my money to another HSA provider that accepted in-kind transfers of investments.
Since it is not a taxable account, you could just sell FZROX and buy the ETF or something else that would transfer in-kind, in the (I think unlikely) event that there were both a reason to move elsewhere and the elsewhere accepted in-kind transfers.
Yeah, good point. Guess I’ll just go with FZROX and pay $0.00 in expense ratios. Who hoo!

EDIT: So I just transferred in over $27,500 to my Fidelity HSA last week, but the the check from my trustee-to-trustee transfer doesn't settle for seven days :(

So Fidelity will only let me place trades up to $25,000 for now. Kind of annoying that they do this, considering the funds came straight from another HSA provider. Pretty irritating because I want to get back into the market already after having been out for a few weeks now.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Barefootgirl »

Recently retired and seeking to move my current HSA, with HSA Bank, and associated TD Ameritrade account, to the Fidelity HSA.

If anyone has done this transfer with HSA Bank and TDA and has any tips to share from recent experience, would appreciate. Thank you!
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by isubrama »

Barefootgirl wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:27 am Recently retired and seeking to move my current HSA, with HSA Bank, and associated TD Ameritrade account, to the Fidelity HSA.

If anyone has done this transfer with HSA Bank and TDA and has any tips to share from recent experience, would appreciate. Thank you!
I did the similar transfer last year and found out that TDA charged asset transfer fee and account closing fee. To avoid the TDA fees, you may try moving the assets back to HSA bank and then initiate the asset transfer from Fidelity.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Barefootgirl »

Why not do an indirect rollover?

What is an indirect rollover?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Barefootgirl »

I did the similar transfer last year and found out that TDA charged asset transfer fee and account closing fee. To avoid the TDA fees, you may try moving the assets back to HSA bank and then initiate the asset transfer from Fidelity.

Sorry if this is an ignorant question - but since HSA Bank is not a brokerage, you had to sell any equities that were in your TDA account before moving them back?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by anon_investor »

Is there a way to do an indirect rollover to the Fidelity HSA electronically, or does it still require a check be mailed to Fidelity?
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by jeffyscott »

Barefootgirl wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:53 pm Why not do an indirect rollover?

What is an indirect rollover?
When you take direct possession of the money as an intermediate step, also called 60 day rollover. For example, you get a check made out to you, rather than the new custodian.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by Barefootgirl »

When you take direct possession of the money as an intermediate step, also called 60 day rollover. For example, you get a check made out to you, rather than the new custodian.

Thank you. Appears I need to find out the advantages/disadvantages of this kind of transaction.
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by okwriter »

anon_investor wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 2:02 pm Is there a way to do an indirect rollover to the Fidelity HSA electronically, or does it still require a check be mailed to Fidelity?
No mailing of checks needed, see here - viewtopic.php?p=5975527#p5975527
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Re: [Fidelity Health Savings Account Mega-Thread]

Post by isubrama »

Barefootgirl wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 1:55 pm I did the similar transfer last year and found out that TDA charged asset transfer fee and account closing fee. To avoid the TDA fees, you may try moving the assets back to HSA bank and then initiate the asset transfer from Fidelity.

Sorry if this is an ignorant question - but since HSA Bank is not a brokerage, you had to sell any equities that were in your TDA account before moving them back?
That is correct. Even otherwise, if you do transfer assets from TDA to Fidelity, I believe the securities will be sold before transfer. (I'm not 100% sure, please check with Fidelity).

TDA to Fidelity transfer is very quick, done in 2 days. HSA to Fidelity takes about a week, since HSA has to mail the check to Fidelity.
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