Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

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FIREGuy88
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Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

I am using Vanguard PAS. Vanguard states that once you get to $5M+ in assets, you get a higher quality advisor. Any idea if this is true, and how you go about requesting it?
GoneOnTilt
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by GoneOnTilt »

........
Last edited by GoneOnTilt on Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by UpperNwGuy »

Why do you need better advice? Seems to me that the advice you have had has gotten you to a very good place. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
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CalPoppy
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by CalPoppy »

FIREGuy88 wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 1:00 pm I am using Vanguard PAS. Vanguard states that once you get to $5M+ in assets, you get a higher quality advisor. Any idea if this is true, and how you go about requesting it?
Yes, that is my understanding. In addition, I believe these higher level advisors may have better access to a team with expertise like tax planning and estate planning. I'm not sure how to go about requesting a change. Once you reach $5M, I think you are assigned a new "Relationship Manager" as part of Vanguard's Flagship Select level. So maybe start there.
Skiandswim
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Skiandswim »

You can call and get assigned a Relationship Manager (different than PAS representative). I have had same person for several years, very knowledgable and prompt. You may find you no longer need the PAS representative and cost since the Relationship Manager can help you with a wide range of topics.

https://investor.vanguard.com/wealth-management/
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FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

GoneOnTilt wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:24 pm ........
?
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FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 6:37 pm Why do you need better advice? Seems to me that the advice you have had has gotten you to a very good place. If it ain't broke, don't fix it.
I just joined a few months ago and just recently crossed the $5M mark. Vanguard makes a distinction between high net worth and ultra high net worth and the types of advisors they give you, so I figured I would ask this forum.
Last edited by FIREGuy88 on Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:41 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

Skiandswim wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 7:16 pm You can call and get assigned a Relationship Manager (different than PAS representative). I have had same person for several years, very knowledgable and prompt. You may find you no longer need the PAS representative and cost since the Relationship Manager can help you with a wide range of topics.

https://investor.vanguard.com/wealth-management/
Super helpful, I'll do this today. Thank you.
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FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

tj wrote: Mon Jun 21, 2021 8:57 pm
[Deleted quote removed by Moderator Misenplace.]


Would Vanguard Digital Adivsor keep the same exact allocation with half the fee? If not, maybe it is.
Not sure, that's a good question.
Silk McCue
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Silk McCue »

FIREGuy88 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:25 am [Deleted quote removed by Moderator Misenplace]
You could pay someone like Allan Roth $450 an hour and come out way ahead and be dealing with someone with knowledge that exceeds any Vanguard advisor you would ever encounter.

https://daretobedull.com/

[Reference to deleted quote removed by Moderator Misenplace]

Cheers
Last edited by Silk McCue on Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:48 am, edited 1 time in total.
hi_there
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by hi_there »

When you reach this wealth tier, you are assigned a relationship manager (industry term for salesperson), who gives you access to various services like taxes, estates and trusts. From my interpretation of their marketing material, this means they paint a target on your back and will try to sell you new services. Wealth management companies make more money from rich customers, not less! I'm not saying these services are not a good value, but I don't think you should expect additional services to come at equal or lower cost than what you were paying before. I don't think anything should change in terms of pure asset allocation either.

https://investor.vanguard.com/wealth-management/
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

At fifteen grand plus a year, I would expect a comprehensive tax plan, linked donation plan, linked trust planning all with future strategy for where to place contributions during accumulation with a linked plan for withdraws during retirement. Depending on your own wishes, gifting (especially to children) should be defined. Forward plans for when you die should be part of this plan, tying in state and federal laws and limits with a will and with trusts.

To me, having the plan for where to withdraw to minimize tax liability is key and this requires some tax computation using assumptions, which should, of course be defined for you.

If all of this isn't being done with the complete linking of everything, I'm sorry, but I would call any exercise a complete waste of time and money. A good plan gives you efficient, low tax investing and withdraw strategy, maximizes what your donations do for the charity and for your tax liability and addresses gifting now to your children.

Just an example....if you were living in Massachusetts, an aware advisor might suggest you consider moving now. Why? Because while Federal gifting limits are tax free to eleven million dollars, the state limits are one million, which you're way over. Pulling numbers out of the air, the advisor might point out that your estate, tallied by Massachusetts tax officials might have the estate paying half a million dollars in tax where in another state without these low limits, there might be zero tax. Because we have a 5 year look back, you don't want to be considering this when you're 85, but when you're young enough to easily break ties with the state for over that 5 year period. Will a Vanguard PAS even know to look at this?
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Scooter57
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Scooter57 »

I'd see getting their "higher quality advisor" as moving from Walmart to Target quality service. But if managing your wealth has reached a level where you feel you need more complex solutions along the lines of trusts, succession planning, etc, I'd look for Neiman Marcus quality advisors.

People with skills of that caliber do NOT work for the likes of Vanguard. Why should they? With high quality skills they should be earning higher incomes than they would get as part of a huge organization that earns its money from cutting costs to the bone.

You would find those kinds of advisors by networking with other people in that wealth tier who have used such services. Baring that, interview several face to face in your region and see what they have to offer and how well you can connect with them. Attorneys who specialize in estate planning are another resource you could look into. Much of what you might want an advisor to do might be along the lines that such an attorney would be more skilled at.

I have been so underwhelmed by the quality of service at Vanguard since John Bogle died that I would NEVER entrust them with anything that required the use of a human brain. That they would state that they offer higher quality advisors for the wealthy suggests they know they are leaving the masses at the tender mercies of lower quality advisors. That is NOT the way that John Bogle would have done business. While the company was under his influence they offered the best to all their investors.
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FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

hi_there wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:43 am When you reach this wealth tier, you are assigned a relationship manager (industry term for salesperson), who gives you access to various services like taxes, estates and trusts. From my interpretation of their marketing material, this means they paint a target on your back and will try to sell you new services. Wealth management companies make more money from rich customers, not less! I'm not saying these services are not a good value, but I don't think you should expect additional services to come at equal or lower cost than what you were paying before. I don't think anything should change in terms of pure asset allocation either.

https://investor.vanguard.com/wealth-management/
This is helpful, thanks. Perhaps I was naive in thinking I'd be treated better and not worse, but this logically makes sense (even if it's unfortunate to hear).
Topic Author
FIREGuy88
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by FIREGuy88 »

Scooter57 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 10:52 am I'd see getting their "higher quality advisor" as moving from Walmart to Target quality service. But if managing your wealth has reached a level where you feel you need more complex solutions along the lines of trusts, succession planning, etc, I'd look for Neiman Marcus quality advisors.

People with skills of that caliber do NOT work for the likes of Vanguard. Why should they? With high quality skills they should be earning higher incomes than they would get as part of a huge organization that earns its money from cutting costs to the bone.

You would find those kinds of advisors by networking with other people in that wealth tier who have used such services. Baring that, interview several face to face in your region and see what they have to offer and how well you can connect with them. Attorneys who specialize in estate planning are another resource you could look into. Much of what you might want an advisor to do might be along the lines that such an attorney would be more skilled at.

I have been so underwhelmed by the quality of service at Vanguard since John Bogle died that I would NEVER entrust them with anything that required the use of a human brain. That they would state that they offer higher quality advisors for the wealthy suggests they know they are leaving the masses at the tender mercies of lower quality advisors. That is NOT the way that John Bogle would have done business. While the company was under his influence they offered the best to all their investors.
Useful, thank you. I have a hard time believing that Vanguard has degraded in service BECAUSE John Bogle passed away, however, point taken.
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Marmot
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Marmot »

FIREGuy88 wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 2:47 pm
Silk McCue wrote: Tue Jun 22, 2021 9:34 am [Deleted quote removed by Moderator Misenplace]

You could pay someone like Allan Roth $450 an hour and come out way ahead and be dealing with someone with knowledge that exceeds any Vanguard advisor you would ever encounter.

https://daretobedull.com/

[Reference to deleted quote removed by Moderator Misenplace]
For gods sake just ask. You are the customer. We love our PAS, had him for about 10 years. He was a geology major in college, go figure. Ask about getting on the Vanguard Steering Committee if you want to give input. There about 3,800 members.
Marty....don't go to the year 2020....Dr. Emmett Brown
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galawdawg
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by galawdawg »

Gee OP. You post a question stating, "I am using Vanguard PAS. Vanguard states that once you get to $5M+ in assets, you get a higher quality advisor." and then asking, "Any idea if this is true, and how you go about requesting it?"

Two very-well regarded, knowledgeable and experienced Bogleheads pose very legitimate questions about the value you are receiving, or not receiving, from PAS and post an alternative suggestion, and you respond rather unkindly and/or harshly rather than appreciating the effort they and others on Bogleheads have put into providing advice or comments designed to help you in your investing success. And unlike Vanguard, nobody here is charging you a dime.

And frankly as I read your two-part question, it implies two things:
1. You have reason not to believe Vanguard when they state that "once you get to $5M+ in assets, you get a higher quality advisor," and
2. Your relationship with Vanguard is so strained, or they provide you so little assistance, that you need our help to know how to contact Vanguard and request a different advisor.

So I'll be happy to answer your question (free of charge) directly, succinctly and without any "unsolicited" advice about how you might find better financial planning at a lower-cost elsewhere. Here's the answer.

Call Vanguard PAS and tell them you want the "higher quality advisor" you were promised.

:sharebeer
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Re: Requesting a Different Vanguard PAS At $5M+

Post by Misenplace »

Topic became contentious (several posts had to be removed) and is locked.

Per the forum guidelines, "Discussions should be conducted without fondness for dispute or desire for victory. - Benjamin Franklin"

If you want to have a discussion, keep it respectful and assume the best of each other.

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