Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

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gasman
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by gasman »

I want to start a fund that invests in Fungible tokens.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

Scooter57 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:43 pm Here is a question for someone who is better educated in blockchain than I am.

Our major family business is one that sells products that are highly collectible and we have an enthusiastic group of collectors, many of whom appear to be very well off younger guys in tech. So it seems obvious to me that we should be SELLING NFT jpgs while we can. (We have the ability to make very high quality .jpgs of images that would interest our collectors.)

I've read various sites that detail how to create and sell NFT artwork and looked at a couple, but I know that I don't know enough to do this properly.

Can any of you point me to a community of people who discuss the mechanics of creating and selling NFT artwork, where there would be discussion about which sites are the best places to create and auction, which are the best wallets for dealing with these sites, which are the best exchanges for cashing in cryptocurrency, etc before we test the waters.

Any tips would be appreciated. When people are getting carried away with this kind of fad you want to be on the selling side, not the buying and trading side.
Discord and Twitter are where all the NFT discussion is happening. Probably the best thing to do would be to figure out if there is a Discord server that fits your needs, though most of the ones I know are on the collector side. They are very knowledgeable, but may not be particularly interested in helping you sell NFTs.

Edit: Maybe the Token Smart Discord server might be a good place to start
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

humbledinvestor wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 4:24 pm Can the bubble burst already?
There's already been a crash to some degree, certainly there's not as much of a craze as there was 2 months ago.
Scooter57
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by Scooter57 »

decapod10 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 5:29 pm
Scooter57 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 3:43 pm Here is a question for someone who is better educated in blockchain than I am.

Our major family business is one that sells products that are highly collectible and we have an enthusiastic group of collectors, many of whom appear to be very well off younger guys in tech. So it seems obvious to me that we should be SELLING NFT jpgs while we can. (We have the ability to make very high quality .jpgs of images that would interest our collectors.)

I've read various sites that detail how to create and sell NFT artwork and looked at a couple, but I know that I don't know enough to do this properly.

Can any of you point me to a community of people who discuss the mechanics of creating and selling NFT artwork, where there would be discussion about which sites are the best places to create and auction, which are the best wallets for dealing with these sites, which are the best exchanges for cashing in cryptocurrency, etc before we test the waters.

Any tips would be appreciated. When people are getting carried away with this kind of fad you want to be on the selling side, not the buying and trading side.
Discord and Twitter are where all the NFT discussion is happening. Probably the best thing to do would be to figure out if there is a Discord server that fits your needs, though most of the ones I know are on the collector side. They are very knowledgeable, but may not be particularly interested in helping you sell NFTs.

Edit: Maybe the Token Smart Discord server might be a good place to start
Thanks. I'll check it out.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:40 pm
decapod10 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:37 pm
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:47 pm Is Ebay involved in the NFT market at all ? I know they sell physical objects such as minted coins related to blockchain tokens, but actual NFT tokens ?
Not to my knowledge, unless they have a stake in one of these other NFT marketplaces.
I wonder if it makes sense to buy a little Ebay stock, then wait for it to announce that it'll move into NFTs, and sell when it pops because of that. If that doesn't happen, no biggie, Ebay is a decent hold.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/ebay ... 021-05-03/

There's the announcement you were looking for!
SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor »

decapod10 wrote: Mon May 03, 2021 5:28 pm
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:40 pm
decapod10 wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 6:37 pm
SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Thu Mar 25, 2021 5:47 pm Is Ebay involved in the NFT market at all ? I know they sell physical objects such as minted coins related to blockchain tokens, but actual NFT tokens ?
Not to my knowledge, unless they have a stake in one of these other NFT marketplaces.
I wonder if it makes sense to buy a little Ebay stock, then wait for it to announce that it'll move into NFTs, and sell when it pops because of that. If that doesn't happen, no biggie, Ebay is a decent hold.
https://www.reuters.com/technology/ebay ... 021-05-03/

There's the announcement you were looking for!
Yes, but I didn't follow through and buy Ebay prior to the announcement, alas :happy
Portfolio: 50% DOGE, 10% SPACs, 10% Frozen OJ futures, 10% MOON ETF, 10% NFTs , 5% FOMO ETF, 5% New Jersey Delis with $100M market cap :)
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

Cryptopunks auction at Christie's today, should be interesting. The cryptopunk market has been a bit strange lately, but I don't expect it will have much of an impact on the Christie's lot. The market expectation on the auction result seems to be around $15-20M USD.

Sotheby's announced a cryptopunks auction of their own, which may take the wind out of this Christie's auction a bit.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

Final sale price on the cryptopunks lot at Christie's was $16.9 Million. I actually think that this was a bit lower than anticipated, but an interesting event nonetheless.
banook
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by banook »

I did attempt to bid on one NFT - an art piece (not a meme) on Foundation app (NFT market place). I was outbid. I genuinely liked the piece - and there are digital displays you can buy to display it. Many think of NFTs as silly, but I can’t help viewing it positively as it does support digital artists who typically just have their work ripped off or don’t get much recompense in the digital commons. I do like art, be it brush and physical paints, sculpture or photons. Honestly it was really this aspect that got me feeling positive about crypto again.

I’ll clarify and say - I don’t view art either physical or digital art as “an investment” - just maybe something sentimental and creative. Why buy an oil painting when you can just buy a print? Lots of reasons... none of them Bogle approved.
secondopinion
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by secondopinion »

I can see some practically of principle, but I do not see it any different than an idiosyncratic commodity at best; like all commodities, I only buy what I can use for some purpose. Right now, I see little point. I am more likely to be on the selling side (and that is unlikely).
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

secondopinion wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 11:04 am I can see some practically of principle, but I do not see it any different than an idiosyncratic commodity at best; like all commodities, I only buy what I can use for some purpose. Right now, I see little point. I am more likely to be on the selling side (and that is unlikely).
I own NFTs but I would not invest in them either and I've actively discouraged my friends who have asked. They are collectibles, I "invest" in them like a hobby rather than a true investment.
txhill
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by txhill »

I think NFTs are an exciting tech but super hard to identify what is trash and what will appreciate. Seems like the easier thing to do is just invest in Ethereum, in which most NFTs are priced.
banook
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by banook »

This is sort of the IP market I picture with NFTs - it probably would make selling and acquiring patents easier, which is something my previous megacorp did all the time but it took much longer, it's also potentially nice to have competitive bidding around IP.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ib ... -monetize/

I also expect a burgeoning amount of new IP law to be coming out. I guess by investing in VTI or other broad indices you have exposure to IBM, so technically you might have exposure to NFTs soon.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

banook wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 12:50 pm This is sort of the IP market I picture with NFTs - it probably would make selling and acquiring patents easier, which is something my previous megacorp did all the time but it took much longer, it's also potentially nice to have competitive bidding around IP.

https://www.techrepublic.com/article/ib ... -monetize/

I also expect a burgeoning amount of new IP law to be coming out. I guess by investing in VTI or other broad indices you have exposure to IBM, so technically you might have exposure to NFTs soon.
I could see some companies trying to leverage NFT tech. NFTs cannot be counterfeited, cannot be destroyed (usually, lol), are easy to transfer , easy to store, easy to track since all transactions are recorded and accessible , which make them useful for certain applications.

NFTs would make an excellent ticketing system for concerts, sporting events, etc.

Document storage as NFTs on public blockchain may be a thing, like CargoX is trying to do. They recently announced the Egypt is using CargoX for document transfer for cargo documentation. CargoX runs on public blockchain (Matic/Polygon layer 2, Ethereum layer 1).

Uniswap (which is a decentralized exchange) gives you an NFT now when you put your assets into a liquidity pool so you can track your assets more easily.

Just some thoughts off the top of my head.
SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor »

FWIW, I think IPWe is supposed to be built on IBM Blockchain, which uses Hyperledger Fabric, a permissioned blockchain. I can see patents as NFTs on a permissioned blockchain. I think I may even have mentioned that earlier in this thread. I really don't see that many use cases for a public blockchain other than the speculation factor.

That being said, having helped to write, analyze and been deposed for patent lawsuits, the really tricky part of patents is determining prior art, what constitutes infringement etc. And patent trolls ! Blockchains don't help with that.

ADDED: Actually, I vaguely remember that IPWe's top folks used to be involved in the patent troll business -- doesn't exactly give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about their goals :wink:
Portfolio: 50% DOGE, 10% SPACs, 10% Frozen OJ futures, 10% MOON ETF, 10% NFTs , 5% FOMO ETF, 5% New Jersey Delis with $100M market cap :)
SlowMovingInvestor
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by SlowMovingInvestor »

NYT Magazine lead article on NFT

The Untold Story of the NFT Boom

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/maga ... rypto.html

About Beeple's paintings

The story of who bought it, and why, is a sign of just how deeply NFTs are tied up in the financial engineering of cryptocurrencies. It turns out that Beeple had major collectors: Vignesh Sundaresan and Anand Venkateswaran. They are the founders of Metapurse, a fund that collects NFTs.

The two obviously have a financial incentive to push NFTs and cybercurrencies in general. Now, promoting a particular artist isn't anything different from what art galleries do. In this case, they're trying to promote a whole field.
Portfolio: 50% DOGE, 10% SPACs, 10% Frozen OJ futures, 10% MOON ETF, 10% NFTs , 5% FOMO ETF, 5% New Jersey Delis with $100M market cap :)
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 7:01 pm NYT Magazine lead article on NFT

The Untold Story of the NFT Boom

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/05/12/maga ... rypto.html

About Beeple's paintings

The story of who bought it, and why, is a sign of just how deeply NFTs are tied up in the financial engineering of cryptocurrencies. It turns out that Beeple had major collectors: Vignesh Sundaresan and Anand Venkateswaran. They are the founders of Metapurse, a fund that collects NFTs.

The two obviously have a financial incentive to push NFTs and cybercurrencies in general. Now, promoting a particular artist isn't anything different from what art galleries do. In this case, they're trying to promote a whole field.
I owned some B20 for a time (I still own a little bit but sold most of it already). Metakovan buying the Beeple was not a good move in my opinion, definitely looked sketchy when he did that. Beeple himself has lost a lot of cred with the cryptoworld as well, which hasn't helped his case, though he his stuff still sold for $500k + 2 weeks ago.

The NFT market as a whole is definitely calmed down a lot since February/March. There was a time when people were buying everything, but I think the increased ETH prices as well as just an overall cool down of the market and oversaturation makes it tough sledding right now.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by Northern Flicker »

decapod10 wrote: There was a time when people were buying everything, but I think the increased ETH prices as well as just an overall cool down of the market
Wouldn't high cryptocurrency prices make NFTs cheaper for people holding the cryptocurrency in question?
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

Northern Flicker wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 8:04 pm
decapod10 wrote: There was a time when people were buying everything, but I think the increased ETH prices as well as just an overall cool down of the market
Wouldn't high cryptocurrency prices make NFTs cheaper for people holding the cryptocurrency in question?
Well, I don't think the increased price of ETH alone is causing NFTs to cool down, but it may be having an effect. Part of it is when ETH is pumping hard, some people get hesitant to spend ETH as freely because it is a taxable event. You bought 1 ETH for $2000, then it goes up to $4000 and you want to buy something for 1 ETH, you have $2000 in realized gains as well. Part of it is that a significant portion of the NFT world denominates things in ETH rather than USD, so if they sell something for less ETH than they bought it for (even though the USD value may be higher), that is still viewed as a loss. However, not everyone looks at it ETH vs USD that way, so you have new projects priced at 0.1 ETH and fewer people are willing to buy. It's hard to explain, but it's sort of a funny mindset you get when you're living in Ethereum land.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by Northern Flicker »

Do people sell the full rights to things with NFT, or just the rights to own copies?

For instance, if someone composes a song, and produces a recording of it, they can sell the right for you to have a copy that you listen to, or they can sell you the full rights to it, so that you could then market copies of it or put it on a streaming service or whatever. The article suggested the former is common, which makes the large sums surprising, and puts the purchase in the realm of consumption rather than investment.

Presumably, NFT's are part of the ETH ecosystem because of the contractual agreements involved?
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
decapod10
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by decapod10 »

Northern Flicker wrote: Thu May 13, 2021 12:26 am Do people sell the full rights to things with NFT, or just the rights to own copies?

For instance, if someone composes a song, and produces a recording of it, they can sell the right for you to have a copy that you listen to, or they can sell you the full rights to it, so that you could then market copies of it or put it on a streaming service or whatever. The article suggested the former is common, which makes the large sums surprising, and puts the purchase in the realm of consumption rather than investment.

Presumably, NFT's are part of the ETH ecosystem because of the contractual agreements involved?
For commerical rights, it works just like physical art. The artist retains all commerical rights unless they explicitly include them as part of your purchase.

NFTs are on mainly on Ethereum because Ethereum is really the only smart contract blockchain that has been around long enough. Bitcoin, Dogecoin, Litecoin, etc do not support smart contracts and therefore cannot support NFTs for the most part (there are some NFT-like things on Bitcoin, depending on your exact definition). Binance has NFTs, but just recently started within the last few months I think. Same with Tezos I believe.

If you have an expensive NFT, right now you want it on Ethereum because it has the highest chance of existing 5 years from now also and also by far has the most users and transactions if you want to resell it. People would be hesitant to pay $500k for a Beeple NFT on Tezos or something I think, then have a non functional NFT if Tezos disappears.
Northern Flicker
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by Northern Flicker »

The advice in the original article not to copyright was interesting. In both scenarios, a copyright strengthens the ownership of the commercial rights, whether retained by the creator or sold with the token.
My postings are my opinion, and never should be construed as a recommendation to buy, sell, or hold any particular investment.
banook
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Re: Non-fungible tokens (NFTs): anyone investing in those?

Post by banook »

SlowMovingInvestor wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 5:14 pm FWIW, I think IPWe is supposed to be built on IBM Blockchain, which uses Hyperledger Fabric, a permissioned blockchain. I can see patents as NFTs on a permissioned blockchain. I think I may even have mentioned that earlier in this thread. I really don't see that many use cases for a public blockchain other than the speculation factor.

That being said, having helped to write, analyze and been deposed for patent lawsuits, the really tricky part of patents is determining prior art, what constitutes infringement etc. And patent trolls ! Blockchains don't help with that.

ADDED: Actually, I vaguely remember that IPWe's top folks used to be involved in the patent troll business -- doesn't exactly give me a warm, fuzzy feeling about their goals :wink:
I think you’re thinking about it from an extreme IP protective standpoint which is what it is today. My previous megacorp often hawkishly bought IP with no intention of using it - or at least not in the next 10 years, but only to keep it from other competitors or to add to its balance sheet. I never liked this behavior but it happens. They also purchased “trade secrets” (not actual IP), often snakeoil. Blockchains for an NFT marketplace (in whatever crypto) for IP and trade secrets could incentivize faster buying and selling of IP. If it’s public ledger you could query that db much faster than what currently exists. An idea. Possibly wrong. Always willing to be wrong in this space.
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