Congratulations!

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AlohaBill
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Congratulations!

Post by AlohaBill »

Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
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HomerJ
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by HomerJ »

I won't fault the bottom 90% when they come for us with pitchforks and torches.
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Silk McCue
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Silk McCue »

Interesting. From one Web source.
Someone in the top 10% has a net worth of $1,219,126, while someone in the top 1% has a net worth of $11,099,166, according to the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019.Apr 14, 2021
Cheers
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.

you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.

are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
pizzy
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by pizzy »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am
AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.

you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.

are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
Per the article, it includes mutual funds.

"The share of corporate equities and mutual funds owned by the top 10% reached the record high in the second quarter, while the bottom 90% of Americans held about 11% of stocks, down from 12% before the pandemic."

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

pizzy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am
AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.

you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.

are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
Per the article, it includes mutual funds.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
thanks. thats why providing links where one read something is important to verify. The OP did not link any such article to match with the claims made.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
pizzy
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by pizzy »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:27 am
pizzy wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 am
arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am
AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.

you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.

are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
Per the article, it includes mutual funds.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
thanks. thats why providing links where one read something is important to verify. The OP did not link any such article to match with the claims made.
And it's CNBC, it probably includes ALL mutual funds. I doubt they were slicing and dicing target date funds to make sure their click bait headline was accurate.
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
Flashes1
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Flashes1 »

Thanks for the congrats! I've worked hard to accumulate these assets. No free lunches.
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rob
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by rob »

arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.

you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
Not even then if you hold in "street name" via a brokerage acct....
| Rob | Its a dangerous business going out your front door. - J.R.R.Tolkien
getthatmarshmallow
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by getthatmarshmallow »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:13 am I won't fault the bottom 90% when they come for us with pitchforks and torches.
brb going to invest in pitchfork funds
6bquick
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by 6bquick »

getthatmarshmallow wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:40 am
HomerJ wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:13 am I won't fault the bottom 90% when they come for us with pitchforks and torches.
brb going to invest in pitchfork funds
Legit LOL on that one. nicely done.
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loghound
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by loghound »

Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?

I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time. | - Blaise Pascal
Grt2bOutdoors
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

HomerJ wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:13 am I won't fault the bottom 90% when they come for us with pitchforks and torches.
Given the source of the data, I take no stock in that survey.
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Silk McCue
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Silk McCue »

loghound wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:45 am Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?

I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
My third post in this thread provides info from “ Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019”

Cheers
dukeblue219
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by dukeblue219 »

Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
Normchad
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Normchad »

Silk McCue wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:20 am Interesting. From one Web source.
Someone in the top 10% has a net worth of $1,219,126, while someone in the top 1% has a net worth of $11,099,166, according to the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019.Apr 14, 2021
Cheers
This is a key point. I’m wealthy by every measure. But I’m a whole lot closer to the bottom than I’ll ever be to the top. The numbers are truly staggering……
MathWizard
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by MathWizard »

The study should account for the age of the stock holder as well.

The youngest among us probably are not yet in the top 10%, but will be eventually.
There is a substantial difference between those in the low half (or so) of the top 10%
and the top of the top 10%. I suspect many on the board will make it into the
top 10% or even top 5%, but without a large income, inheritance, or without taking on
a large amount of risk, most top the top 1% is beyond the reach of the majority , even
on the board.


From

Code: Select all

  https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
What is the top 1% household net worth?
To be top 1% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $11,099,166. $10,374,030 was the 1% threshold in 2017.

What is the top .5% net worth? What is the top .1% household net worth?
To be top .5% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $17,557,208.
The top .1% bracket started around $43,207,732.
Zeno
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Zeno »

dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
+1

Indeed, it isn't good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_o ... inequality.

And it is a long-term risk factor for civil society, and is one of many reasons why I fret about the lives my children could experience in comparison to mine.
SmallSaver
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by SmallSaver »

dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
Agreed. This is in poor taste, IMO.

Also not actionable or appropriate for this board.
Mishigami
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Mishigami »

SmallSaver wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:19 pm
dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
Agreed. This is in poor taste, IMO.

Also not actionable or appropriate for this board.
+1
Maverick3320
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Maverick3320 »

dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
I didn't know that holding stocks was now considered income.

I have many neighbors with my level of income that have bigger cars, pools, and toys that I don't have, but they (for the most part) don't have the stocks that I've accumulated over a lifetime of saving, not spending.
backpacker61
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by backpacker61 »

I think the distribution could be a lot less skewed, but it would require that more people establish different lifestyle choices (i.e., delayed gratification, LBYM). So many people I know (and am related to) are just undisciplined.

And many people also own equities in the form of teacher/public employee pensions, etc.
Last edited by backpacker61 on Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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loghound
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by loghound »

Silk McCue wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:50 am
loghound wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:45 am Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?

I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
My third post in this thread provides info from “ Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019”

Cheers
Ok -- I found this link, thanks....

https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm

Which seems to point to data that should cover it (again, a few years old but?).
I would have written a shorter letter, but I did not have the time. | - Blaise Pascal
Dontridetheindexdown
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Dontridetheindexdown »

dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
This began as a discussion of wealth, not a discussion of income.

I don't believe anyone is "cheering," rather they are discussing the observed distribution.

Wealth appears to be a Pareto distribution, as expected and observed.
mmcmonster
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by mmcmonster »

MathWizard wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 pm [...]
From

Code: Select all

  https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
What is the top 1% household net worth?
To be top 1% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $11,099,166. $10,374,030 was the 1% threshold in 2017.

What is the top .5% net worth? What is the top .1% household net worth?
To be top .5% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $17,557,208.
The top .1% bracket started around $43,207,732.
Thanks for the link. Near the bottom is a chart with the exact percentile and where it puts an individual.

(Getting this in before the topic is likely locked.)
Last edited by mmcmonster on Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
PVW
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by PVW »

AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks.
Yes, he did say that. From the title, restated again in the Key Points, and again as the 1st sentence of the article.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
The wealthiest 10% of Americans now own 89% of all U.S. stocks, a record high that highlights the stock market’s role in increasing wealth inequality.
But it's not exactly true.

The data come from the Federal Reserve's Distributional Financial Accounts.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases ... index.html

Where they summarize
The Distributional Financial Accounts (DFAs) provide quarterly estimates of the distribution of a comprehensive measure of U.S. household wealth
U.S. household stock ownership is not all stocks. A more accurate headline would be "Of stocks owned by U.S. households, the wealthiest 10% of households now own 89%".

Robert Frank should know that his statements are a misrepresentation of the data.

Beyond that, Frank hides the fact that the stock ownership of the 90-99% has actually decreased in recent years and is the lowest it's been since about 1999. The increase in stock ownership of the top 10% come entirely from an increase in stock ownership of the top 1%.
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Orangutan
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Orangutan »

Dontridetheindexdown wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 pm
dukeblue219 wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.

This is bad, not good.
This began as a discussion of wealth, not a discussion of income.

I don't believe anyone is "cheering," rather they are discussing the observed distribution.

Wealth appears to be a Pareto distribution, as expected and observed.
The title of this post is “Congratulations”. Sounds like cheering to me.

This is an inappropriate post.
Da5id
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by Da5id »

AlohaBill wrote: Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
In before the lock...

This doesn't seem very actionable or productive.
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oldcomputerguy
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Re: Congratulations!

Post by oldcomputerguy »

This thread is locked (not personal nor actionable). General comment threads are off topic in the forums with "Personal" in the title. See: A reminder that non-investing general comment threads are OT
- It must be personal. In other words, you must be asking about your own situation. You can also ask on behalf of someone specific, such as a family member.

- It must be actionable. You must be able to do something specific with the replies that will make a difference in your situation.
If you have a specific question, please ask directly and provide sufficient information for members to supply appropriate advice.
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