Congratulations!
Congratulations!
Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
Re: Congratulations!
I won't fault the bottom 90% when they come for us with pitchforks and torches.
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Re: Congratulations!
Interesting. From one Web source.
CheersSomeone in the top 10% has a net worth of $1,219,126, while someone in the top 1% has a net worth of $11,099,166, according to the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019.Apr 14, 2021
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Congratulations!
index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.AlohaBill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Congratulations!
Per the article, it includes mutual funds.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 amindex fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.AlohaBill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
"The share of corporate equities and mutual funds owned by the top 10% reached the record high in the second quarter, while the bottom 90% of Americans held about 11% of stocks, down from 12% before the pandemic."
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Congratulations!
thanks. thats why providing links where one read something is important to verify. The OP did not link any such article to match with the claims made.pizzy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 amPer the article, it includes mutual funds.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 amindex fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.AlohaBill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Congratulations!
And it's CNBC, it probably includes ALL mutual funds. I doubt they were slicing and dicing target date funds to make sure their click bait headline was accurate.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:27 amthanks. thats why providing links where one read something is important to verify. The OP did not link any such article to match with the claims made.pizzy wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:26 amPer the article, it includes mutual funds.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 amindex fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.AlohaBill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
are you sure this isn't saying that 10% of the wealthiest Americans DIRECTLY own 89% of all stocks?
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
Re: Congratulations!
Thanks for the congrats! I've worked hard to accumulate these assets. No free lunches.
Re: Congratulations!
Not even then if you hold in "street name" via a brokerage acct....arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:24 am index fund investors don't own stocks...not directly anyway.
you own a mutual fund that owns the stocks.
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Re: Congratulations!
Legit LOL on that one. nicely done.
If your outgo exceeds your income, your upkeep will be your downfall
Re: Congratulations!
Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?
I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
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Re: Congratulations!
Given the source of the data, I take no stock in that survey.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
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Re: Congratulations!
My third post in this thread provides info from “ Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019”loghound wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:45 am Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?
I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
Cheers
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Re: Congratulations!
Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
This is bad, not good.
Re: Congratulations!
This is a key point. I’m wealthy by every measure. But I’m a whole lot closer to the bottom than I’ll ever be to the top. The numbers are truly staggering……Silk McCue wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:20 am Interesting. From one Web source.
CheersSomeone in the top 10% has a net worth of $1,219,126, while someone in the top 1% has a net worth of $11,099,166, according to the Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019.Apr 14, 2021
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Re: Congratulations!
The study should account for the age of the stock holder as well.
The youngest among us probably are not yet in the top 10%, but will be eventually.
There is a substantial difference between those in the low half (or so) of the top 10%
and the top of the top 10%. I suspect many on the board will make it into the
top 10% or even top 5%, but without a large income, inheritance, or without taking on
a large amount of risk, most top the top 1% is beyond the reach of the majority , even
on the board.
From
The youngest among us probably are not yet in the top 10%, but will be eventually.
There is a substantial difference between those in the low half (or so) of the top 10%
and the top of the top 10%. I suspect many on the board will make it into the
top 10% or even top 5%, but without a large income, inheritance, or without taking on
a large amount of risk, most top the top 1% is beyond the reach of the majority , even
on the board.
From
Code: Select all
https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
What is the top 1% household net worth?
To be top 1% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $11,099,166. $10,374,030 was the 1% threshold in 2017.
What is the top .5% net worth? What is the top .1% household net worth?
To be top .5% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $17,557,208.
The top .1% bracket started around $43,207,732.
Re: Congratulations!
+1dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
Indeed, it isn't good. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Effects_o ... inequality.
And it is a long-term risk factor for civil society, and is one of many reasons why I fret about the lives my children could experience in comparison to mine.
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Re: Congratulations!
Agreed. This is in poor taste, IMO.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
Also not actionable or appropriate for this board.
Re: Congratulations!
+1SmallSaver wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:19 pmAgreed. This is in poor taste, IMO.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
Also not actionable or appropriate for this board.
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Re: Congratulations!
I didn't know that holding stocks was now considered income.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
I have many neighbors with my level of income that have bigger cars, pools, and toys that I don't have, but they (for the most part) don't have the stocks that I've accumulated over a lifetime of saving, not spending.
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Re: Congratulations!
I think the distribution could be a lot less skewed, but it would require that more people establish different lifestyle choices (i.e., delayed gratification, LBYM). So many people I know (and am related to) are just undisciplined.
And many people also own equities in the form of teacher/public employee pensions, etc.
And many people also own equities in the form of teacher/public employee pensions, etc.
Last edited by backpacker61 on Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Congratulations!
Ok -- I found this link, thanks....Silk McCue wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:50 amMy third post in this thread provides info from “ Federal Reserve Survey of Consumer Finances from 2019”loghound wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 11:45 am Does anyone know where those numbers are? I mean what defines the wealthiest 10% (or 1%)? is it net worth of $5M? $10M? $100M?
I've seen some data here and here but they have not been updated for a few years and as far as I can read the article uses top 1% and top 10% but never seemed to define what those limits are (?)
Cheers
https://www.federalreserve.gov/econres/scfindex.htm
Which seems to point to data that should cover it (again, a few years old but?).
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Re: Congratulations!
This began as a discussion of wealth, not a discussion of income.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
I don't believe anyone is "cheering," rather they are discussing the observed distribution.
Wealth appears to be a Pareto distribution, as expected and observed.
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Re: Congratulations!
Thanks for the link. Near the bottom is a chart with the exact percentile and where it puts an individual.MathWizard wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:17 pm [...]
FromCode: Select all
https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-net-worth-percentiles/
What is the top 1% household net worth?
To be top 1% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $11,099,166. $10,374,030 was the 1% threshold in 2017.
What is the top .5% net worth? What is the top .1% household net worth?
To be top .5% in 2020, a household needed a net worth of $17,557,208.
The top .1% bracket started around $43,207,732.
(Getting this in before the topic is likely locked.)
Last edited by mmcmonster on Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Congratulations!
Yes, he did say that. From the title, restated again in the Key Points, and again as the 1st sentence of the article.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wea ... tocks.html
But it's not exactly true.The wealthiest 10% of Americans now own 89% of all U.S. stocks, a record high that highlights the stock market’s role in increasing wealth inequality.
The data come from the Federal Reserve's Distributional Financial Accounts.
https://www.federalreserve.gov/releases ... index.html
Where they summarize
U.S. household stock ownership is not all stocks. A more accurate headline would be "Of stocks owned by U.S. households, the wealthiest 10% of households now own 89%".The Distributional Financial Accounts (DFAs) provide quarterly estimates of the distribution of a comprehensive measure of U.S. household wealth
Robert Frank should know that his statements are a misrepresentation of the data.
Beyond that, Frank hides the fact that the stock ownership of the 90-99% has actually decreased in recent years and is the lowest it's been since about 1999. The increase in stock ownership of the top 10% come entirely from an increase in stock ownership of the top 1%.
Re: Congratulations!
The title of this post is “Congratulations”. Sounds like cheering to me.Dontridetheindexdown wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:32 pmThis began as a discussion of wealth, not a discussion of income.dukeblue219 wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 12:08 pm Are we cheering the disastrous income inequality of this country now? Gross.
This is bad, not good.
I don't believe anyone is "cheering," rather they are discussing the observed distribution.
Wealth appears to be a Pareto distribution, as expected and observed.
This is an inappropriate post.
Re: Congratulations!
In before the lock...AlohaBill wrote: ↑Mon Oct 18, 2021 10:58 am Frank, on CNBC, reports that the top 10% of the wealthiest Americans own 89% of all stocks. Congratulations to all Bogleheads who belong to this group. It has always been my belief that how much you save is way more important than what your particular aa is. Keeping it simple is enough. Save you must.
This doesn't seem very actionable or productive.
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Re: Congratulations!
This thread is locked (not personal nor actionable). General comment threads are off topic in the forums with "Personal" in the title. See: A reminder that non-investing general comment threads are OT
If you have a specific question, please ask directly and provide sufficient information for members to supply appropriate advice.- It must be personal. In other words, you must be asking about your own situation. You can also ask on behalf of someone specific, such as a family member.
- It must be actionable. You must be able to do something specific with the replies that will make a difference in your situation.
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