My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Have a question about your personal investments? No matter how simple or complex, you can ask it here.
Post Reply
Topic Author
teacher
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: California

My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by teacher »

I haven't been checking our accounts lately to avoid bad news, but since things were looking up Friday, I thought I would check to see our status only to find my entire ROTH account is missing from our profile. DH's ROTH shows as does our taxable account. And to add insult to injury, Vanguard is closed for the weekend, leaving no hope for solace until Monday.

Is missing a huge portion of investments likely temporary, or should I be as worried as I already am?
Is this a reoccurring problem at Vanguard? An IT issue, or is my panic rectified?
If it's an IT issue, would multiple people be effected or an unlucky individual?
fposte
Posts: 2327
Joined: Mon Sep 02, 2013 1:32 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by fposte »

Somebody's reported in another thread that their 401k account has gone missing at Vanguard this weekend, so it sounds like there's a tech glitch happening.
pasadena
Posts: 2336
Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2016 1:23 am
Location: PNW

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by pasadena »

On your home page, there should be a link "Customize your account view". Click on that and see if your Roth is in the list and unchecked.
Topic Author
teacher
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: California

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by teacher »

Thank you, both.

It's good to know I haven't been singled out. There haven't been any transactions (dividends or capital gains included) since 9/23/21. Also I checked the customized view option; the ROTH account shows and says it's "up to date" with no date given. However, the up button to include it in the account balances page is grey and inoperable.

Very disconcerting there is no warning or post indicated the problem exists. I will contact Vanguard early Monday morning and share my concerns.

I feel 50% better. Your responses to my inquiry helped.
Californiastate
Posts: 1516
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:52 am

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by Californiastate »

Portfolio review is busted for us at our broker. It's not recognizing any Vanguard AA information.
sycamore
Posts: 6309
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by sycamore »

teacher, would it make you feel better to know that your ROTH account is not missing because there is no such thing as a ROTH account? It's really just a Roth account (not an acronym). Sorry, couldn't resist :)

I'm guessing it's just a temporary thing caused by Vanguard doing some sort of IT maintenance activity. Ideally such a thing would not happen. E.g., Vanguard could at least have their systems indicate that IT maintenance is under way and therefore your balances may be incomplete (or something to that effect).
GuySmiley
Posts: 190
Joined: Fri Aug 10, 2018 6:02 am

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by GuySmiley »

My first login attempt to Vanguard today showed an error page not found, copyright 1995. I clicked around some more and tried again and it worked. Must be general system issues.
dailybagel
Posts: 553
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:35 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by dailybagel »

Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
marcopolo
Posts: 8411
Joined: Sat Dec 03, 2016 9:22 am

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by marcopolo »

dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
User avatar
8foot7
Posts: 4426
Joined: Mon Jan 05, 2015 6:29 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by 8foot7 »

dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
I see what you did there
nalor511
Posts: 5016
Joined: Mon Jul 27, 2015 1:00 am

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by nalor511 »

marcopolo wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:16 pm
dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Or use live chat
ShaftoesSpreadsheet
Posts: 261
Joined: Wed Jan 11, 2017 4:58 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by ShaftoesSpreadsheet »

This is why I download my statements and keep them backed up... nightmare scenario. Hope it gets resolved quickly!
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15111
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by anon_investor »

nalor511 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:24 pm
marcopolo wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:16 pm
dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Or use live chat
I believe fax would work just as fast today.
Bama12
Posts: 826
Joined: Fri Aug 30, 2019 11:48 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by Bama12 »

or just not worry about it. It will show up very soon.
pizzy
Posts: 4339
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2020 6:59 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by pizzy »

Do people really think OP’s account is gone forever?

:oops:
Vanguard/Fidelity | 76% US Stock | 16% Int'l Stock | 8% Cash
User avatar
tuningfork
Posts: 884
Joined: Wed Oct 30, 2013 8:30 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by tuningfork »

The weekend gremlins may be doing account maintenance. Check it on Monday before contacting support.
stan1
Posts: 14235
Joined: Mon Oct 08, 2007 4:35 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by stan1 »

nalor511 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:24 pm
marcopolo wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:16 pm
dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Or use live chat
Or visit the local office near your home.
User avatar
Eagle33
Posts: 2383
Joined: Wed Aug 30, 2017 3:20 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by Eagle33 »

anon_investor wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:47 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:24 pm
marcopolo wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:16 pm
dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Or use live chat
I believe fax would work just as fast today.
Just as fast as pony express. :happy
User avatar
beyou
Posts: 6868
Joined: Sat Feb 27, 2010 2:57 pm
Location: If you can make it there

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by beyou »

OP, do you have your own login or are you trying to view via spouse’s login ? I have heard of some people losing the grants to spouse to see their account at times. Never happened to us but some have seem this, often after transition to brokerage.
RetiredAL
Posts: 3513
Joined: Tue Jun 06, 2017 12:09 am
Location: SF Bay Area

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by RetiredAL »

Oh dear! Missing accounts must be catching.

My Dad's Wells Fargo Brokerage account is AWOL too! Maybe the sky is really falling.

When I logged into my WF Bank account little while ago, a big red header said some account information was not currently available. As I scrolled down the account list/selection page, when I get to Dad's brokerage account, it said balance is not available, click link dies not work, and there's another big red " some account information is not available".
User avatar
anon_investor
Posts: 15111
Joined: Mon Jun 03, 2019 1:43 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by anon_investor »

Eagle33 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:26 pm
anon_investor wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:47 pm
nalor511 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:24 pm
marcopolo wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 5:16 pm
dailybagel wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 4:10 pm Perhaps you could send Vanguard a Secure Message to inquire about this?
Or maybe call them today.
Or use live chat
I believe fax would work just as fast today.
Just as fast as pony express. :happy
This is probably true, since they have all weekend to get to Vanguard!
User avatar
1789
Posts: 2223
Joined: Fri Aug 16, 2019 3:31 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by 1789 »

I checked my accounts just now. It looks like my HSA/Roth Ira/taxable accounts are all Gone! The difference is all my accounts are at Fidelity.

And yes i am NOT joking.
"My conscience wants vegetarianism to win over the world. And my subconscious is yearning for a piece of juicy meat. But what do i want?" (Andrei Tarkovsky)
single2019
Posts: 262
Joined: Thu May 27, 2021 12:13 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by single2019 »

1789 wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:48 pm I checked my accounts just now. It looks like my HSA/Roth Ira/taxable accounts are all Gone! The difference is all my accounts are at Fidelity.

And yes i am NOT joking.
They have all been converted to crypto. But we are not allowed to talk about it
drk
Posts: 3927
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2017 10:33 pm

Re: My Entire ROTH Account is Missing Online

Post by drk »

teacher wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:57 am Is missing a huge portion of investments likely temporary, or should I be as worried as I already am?
Yes, it's almost certainly temporary.
teacher wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:57 am Is this a reoccurring problem at Vanguard? An IT issue, or is my panic rectified?
Yes, it's a problem with Vanguard. You can search the forum to find previous occurrences for others.
teacher wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:57 am If it's an IT issue, would multiple people be effected or an unlucky individual?
Not necessarily. You may just be unlucky.
A useful razor: anyone asking about speculative strategies on Bogleheads.org has no business using them.
InNameOnly
Posts: 139
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 12:40 am

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by InNameOnly »

teacher wrote: Sat Oct 16, 2021 11:57 am I haven't been checking our accounts lately to avoid bad news, but since things were looking up Friday, I thought I would check to see our status only to find my entire ROTH account is missing from our profile. DH's ROTH shows as does our taxable account. And to add insult to injury, Vanguard is closed for the weekend, leaving no hope for solace until Monday.

Is missing a huge portion of investments likely temporary, or should I be as worried as I already am?
Is this a reoccurring problem at Vanguard? An IT issue, or is my panic rectified?
If it's an IT issue, would multiple people be effected or an unlucky individual?
I have accounts with 4 different companies and over the course of a year everyone will give me faulty feedback on account info. I run into missing accounts, zero balances, error pages, etc. My guess is that by Sunday night or Monday morning things will look normal. Such is life in the age of 24x7 data. Somebody still has to windup the rubber band once in a while.
The realist sees the glass as completely full, 50% water and 50% air.
User avatar
nisiprius
Advisory Board
Posts: 52105
Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by nisiprius »

It is amazing to me that serious financial institutions allow these things to happen. If I were a brokerage, I would devote three people (i.e. three eight-hour shifts) to nothing but "glitch inspection quality assurance." Their jobs would be to interface with everyone who ever does IT maintenance AND do constant spot inspections for gross glitches, probably assisted by automated tools. Whenever any account balance changes to zero, the inspector should manually check the account to see there's an obvious reason, such as closing the account or performing a full transfer out. If there is any doubt about the accuracy of everything being shown in the account, the client should see a log-on message with suitably vague wording: "You may be temporarily seeing incorrect values in your account due to maintenance activities. We will be correcting this as soon as possible."

"Down for maintenance" or "Sorry, we are having technical problems" is perfectly acceptable. Missing or zero account numbers with no explanation is not.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16768
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by ResearchMed »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am It is amazing to me that serious financial institutions allow these things to happen. If I were a brokerage, I would devote three people (i.e. three eight-hour shifts) to nothing but "glitch inspection quality assurance." Their jobs would be to interface with everyone who ever does IT maintenance AND do constant spot inspections for gross glitches, probably assisted by automated tools. Whenever any account balance changes to zero, the inspector should manually check the account to see there's an obvious reason, such as closing the account or performing a full transfer out. If there is any doubt about the accuracy of everything being shown in the account, the client should see a log-on message with suitably vague wording: "You may be temporarily seeing incorrect values in your account due to maintenance activities. We will be correcting this as soon as possible."

"Down for maintenance" or "Sorry, we are having technical problems" is perfectly acceptable. Missing or zero account numbers with no explanation is not.
When we had this happen with our 403b plan account at Vanguard, what happened was that the entire account just *vanished*. No such critter.
It was not - at least not that *we* could see, as we could "see" nothing at all about that account - that the balance went to zero or that the balance was incorrect in some other way. Sort of like ServiceMaster (or whatever that company is): "It's like it never happened!" - as though there had never been any such 403b account.
When the account returned from its wanderings, it was fully intact, with all holdings still there.

So "watching for zero balances" probably wouldn't catch this, unless while the account wasn't visible the balance actually did go to zero. But there's no evidence that happened.

How would QA watch for entire accounts that are not visible on client login screens? Serious question, as I don't know how this is coded behind the scenes... what is it that would suddenly change that could be monitored?

Yes, it would have been nice for the system (or QA people of some sort) to have caught it earlier, possibly before client noticed.
That first time it happened was indeed alarming. And each time, the IRA remained visible and intact.

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
Wenonah
Posts: 250
Joined: Sat Nov 24, 2012 12:30 pm

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by Wenonah »

There is definitely something in the air. Friday all my sub accounts at my credit union (like 8) morphed back to old names and I thought I had lost the money I put aside for Property Taxes. Not to worry, somehow it was combined with and renamed "Bicycle Money." And this BEFORE they were planning to do IT Maintenance this weekend. I printed everything out, too.
User avatar
ResearchMed
Posts: 16768
Joined: Fri Dec 26, 2008 10:25 pm

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by ResearchMed »

Wenonah wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:35 am There is definitely something in the air. Friday all my sub accounts at my credit union (like 8) morphed back to old names and I thought I had lost the money I put aside for Property Taxes. Not to worry, somehow it was combined with and renamed "Bicycle Money." And this BEFORE they were planning to do IT Maintenance this weekend. I printed everything out, too.
Was "Bicycle Money" [the new title] a term you used for even one of the sub accounts ever before, or did the software get "creative" or ...!?
You captured a printout with this nice new title? Good! :twisted:

RM
This signature is a placebo. You are in the control group.
jebmke
Posts: 25271
Joined: Thu Apr 05, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Delmarva Peninsula

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by jebmke »

Wenonah wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 9:35 am There is definitely something in the air. Friday all my sub accounts at my credit union (like 8) morphed back to old names and I thought I had lost the money I put aside for Property Taxes. Not to worry, somehow it was combined with and renamed "Bicycle Money." And this BEFORE they were planning to do IT Maintenance this weekend. I printed everything out, too.
Reminds me of a tax client I had several years ago. She gave me a Brokerage statement (tax statement) and as I was looking at it, I noticed a lot of transactions. On prior returns she had none so I asked her if she understood the tax impact of making all these transactions. She looked puzzled and then after some inspection, we realized that the assets on her 1099-B were not hers, despite having her SSN and name on the brokerage report.

I have never treated the online data presented as official so normally if it glitches, I wait a day or so and it resolves itself. Statements on the other hand ...... one of the reasons I always keep confirmations and I always reconcile the tax statements with the regular statements now before doing a return.
Stay hydrated; don't sweat the small stuff
User avatar
telemark
Posts: 3389
Joined: Sat Aug 11, 2012 6:35 am

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by telemark »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am It is amazing to me that serious financial institutions allow these things to happen.
Financial institutions don't care because their customers don't care, or at least are perceived not to care by the marketing people, because things that don't happen don't get noticed. Have we ever seen a thread here on how Treasury Direct lost someone's account, even temporarily?

Disclaimer: I used to work as a programmer for a third-party provider of software to financial institutions. We spent a lot of time writing regression tests (both unit testing and full-blown integration testing), and there was an independent group that did manual testing. No one ever asked about it in meetings, though, it was always stuff like "we need to add cross-selling, everyone is asking for that".
Topic Author
teacher
Posts: 1165
Joined: Sun Oct 05, 2008 5:45 pm
Location: California

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by teacher »

Saturday evening, the day I noticed my ROTH information had vanished and posted my concern here, I logged on again and it was back and seems accurate. I know it may take up to an hour to get ahold of someone at Vanguard, so I will wait to call tomorrow when I have the time to find out the cause of this unsettling experience. If I get an answer worth repeating, I will post it on this thread tomorrow, as well.

While looking for an answer at vanguard.com, I found you can sign up for account activity alerts. I’m not sure this is relevant, but it would seem a good thing for Vanguard to include this circumstance in their alert menu. I signed up with fingers crossed. I would like to have received a message like isiprius suggested: "You may be temporarily seeing incorrect values in your account due to maintenance activities. We will be correcting this as soon as possible."

Account activity alerts
"Receive an immediate text message or email if we discover certain transactions and profile changes made to your account.
More about account activity alerts: Log in here: https://investor.vanguard.com/security-center
rhinson
Posts: 15
Joined: Sat Jun 28, 2014 2:36 pm

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by rhinson »

yep my entire taxable account disappeared today----rollover ira and roth accounts were still there. you could check under "transactions" and from the drop down menu i could choose/see my taxable account's recent transactions----also under "performance" the total reflected the actual total of all my accounts, but the entire account was missing elsewhere. "balances and holdings" total only reflected roth and rollover totals. hopefully they'll get this tech glitch ironed out in the near future. hopefully these recent bugs are not the result of some sort of hack. rh
Northern Flicker
Posts: 15289
Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by Northern Flicker »

nisiprius wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am It is amazing to me that serious financial institutions allow these things to happen. If I were a brokerage, I would devote three people (i.e. three eight-hour shifts) to nothing but "glitch inspection quality assurance." Their jobs would be to interface with everyone who ever does IT maintenance AND do constant spot inspections for gross glitches, probably assisted by automated tools. Whenever any account balance changes to zero, the inspector should manually check the account to see there's an obvious reason, such as closing the account or performing a full transfer out. If there is any doubt about the accuracy of everything being shown in the account, the client should see a log-on message with suitably vague wording: "You may be temporarily seeing incorrect values in your account due to maintenance activities. We will be correcting this as soon as possible."

"Down for maintenance" or "Sorry, we are having technical problems" is perfectly acceptable. Missing or zero account numbers with no explanation is not.
3 people won't cut it. They need a QA dept. and a rigorous engineering discipline for implementing production changes.
fortunefavored
Posts: 1418
Joined: Tue Jun 02, 2015 8:18 pm

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by fortunefavored »

Northern Flicker wrote: Tue Oct 19, 2021 1:20 am
nisiprius wrote: Sun Oct 17, 2021 8:21 am It is amazing to me that serious financial institutions allow these things to happen. If I were a brokerage, I would devote three people (i.e. three eight-hour shifts) to nothing but "glitch inspection quality assurance." Their jobs would be to interface with everyone who ever does IT maintenance AND do constant spot inspections for gross glitches, probably assisted by automated tools. Whenever any account balance changes to zero, the inspector should manually check the account to see there's an obvious reason, such as closing the account or performing a full transfer out. If there is any doubt about the accuracy of everything being shown in the account, the client should see a log-on message with suitably vague wording: "You may be temporarily seeing incorrect values in your account due to maintenance activities. We will be correcting this as soon as possible."

"Down for maintenance" or "Sorry, we are having technical problems" is perfectly acceptable. Missing or zero account numbers with no explanation is not.
3 people won't cut it. They need a QA dept. and a rigorous engineering discipline for implementing production changes.
I've done projects with/for many "to big to fail" institutions.. going back to the bear sterns days.. and frankly if you knew what I knew about the state of their IT, you'd curl up in a ball and cry. Some of them have *thousands* of outsourced people pretty much doing what nisiprius described because it is a lot cheaper than trying to figure out their mess of spaghetti and then investing enough to fix it.

The fact any of it continues to work is amazing to me. There was a brief flurry of core infrastructure/core service investment for Y2K.. and basically nothing but the bare minimum (or less than, as long as they can get away with it) since.

On the other hand, it's the only game in town, so invest we must.
User avatar
oldcomputerguy
Moderator
Posts: 17878
Joined: Sun Nov 22, 2015 5:50 am
Location: Tennessee

Re: My Entire Roth Account is Missing Online

Post by oldcomputerguy »

We have a taxable account at Vanguard. For what it's worth, I just logged in and checked, and all my holdings are present, the total matches what my spreadsheet says it should be to the penny (which is in itself a bit unusual, given that there is most often a one- or two-cent discrepancy due to rounding).
There is only one success - to be able to spend your life in your own way. (Christopher Morley)
Post Reply