Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal 15k/yr SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost. When able to move to higher paying job, my plan is to contribute 3K/month to them so that I can live in my own home/apt while starting a family.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
Question:
1. What should my parents do with their <100K in checking account savings which is all they have? Leave it alone or something else?
PARENTS:
ASSETS: $100,000 or less
PARENTS' SOCIAL SECURITY RETIREMENT (THIS IS THEIR ONLY INCOME):
Father: early 70’s, poor health, cannot work
Mother: early 70’s, poor health, cannot work
Total (Father + Mother) Social Security Retirement Income: $15,696 per year = $1,308 a month
Annuity: will not do per your assessment and what I looked at last night as well.
PARENTS' EXPENSES: this projection is for when they stay in my same apartment and we are living apart. I cannot break them down separate from each other and will also need to find out their medicare/copays amount.
Parents if living separate:
Fixed expenses
per month
(generous) Rent w/all utilities included/tv/internet : $2000
Car (used, financing until 2025): $350
Auto + Renters insurance: $110
cell phone family (mine included): $120
Total fixed $2580
flexible expense parents
per month
Car Gas: $80
Car maintenance/repair avg: $150
Groceries: $500
clothing/gifts/donations: $500
Out/entertainment/miscellaneous : $300
Total flexible: $1530
Total monthly $4110
Total after SS benefits $2802
-----------
My personal financial picture:
I am a new physician graduate starting on a low salary compared to my peers with no room for growth where I am. I am blessed to do what I do but currently in process of changing jobs hopefully by August 2022 since I know my earning potential is much more in a different location (out of state) and practice setting. This will help with my current financial obligations not to mention the non-ideal work environment due to corporate acquisition of the practice I am in.
Emergency funds: $87K (10 months generous fixed and flexible with consideration of paying separate rent expenses of 2K/month for parents to live on their own)
Debt: No consumer debt. No mortgage, currently renting 2B/2B (parents sharing), own my payed off 13 yr old vehicle. Only debt is Medical school school debt in the amount of $262K (avg Federal loan interest rate 6.5%). I plan to refinance if I make the move to a new higher paying job next year. I am considering using 4 months of the above emergency funds currently in HY savings account to pay off a portion prior to refinancing to lower rate once my new contract is signed if that is advisable.
Tax Filing Status: Single
Tax Rate: 32%
State of Residence: (prefer to leave out for anonymity)
Age: 34-35
Desired Asset allocation: ~85% stocks / 15% bonds
Desired International allocation: 27% of stocks
Size of total portfolio: $52K
Current retirement assets
Taxable
0% cash (for investing – do not include emergency funds)- I have been prioritizing emergency funds due to family situation and setting up for paying for student loans since graduating from residency training last year.
My 401k
19.27% Fidelity 500 Index Fund (FXAIX) (0.01%)
4.6% Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VEXAX) (0.06%)
5.28% Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (0.11%)
My Traditional IRA
5.73% Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBTLX) (0.05%)
5.72% Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (0.11%)
13% Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund (VFIFX) (0.15%) – old, no longer contributing to this)
My Roth IRA (stopped contributions since do not qualify due to income bracket)
31% AMERICAN 2055 TARGET DATE RETIREMENT CL C (CCJTX) (1.48%... I know…sold to me when I was a new resident by a “financial advisor”)
HSA invested:
8% Vanguard Target Retirement 2055 Fund (VFFVX) (0.15%)
7.4% Cryptocurrency (I know, but I bought a tiny sum a while back which appreciated, not making contributions here)
Summary if I remove the retirement date funds and look at my IRA and 401K individual index funds, my US stock/Int stock are 59%/27% and US bonds 14% which is similar to my target date funds which I am trending.
______________________________________________________________
Contributions
New annual Contributions
$19500 in 401k (No employer matching contributions)
$6000 in IRA
Available funds
Funds available in my 401(k)
Fidelity 500 Index Fund (FXAIX) (expense ratio 0.01%)
Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VEXAX) (expense ratio 0.06%)
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (expense ratio 0.11%)
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal 15k/yr SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost. When able to move to higher paying job, my plan is to contribute 3K/month to them so that I can live in my own home/apt while starting a family.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
Question:
1. What should my parents do with their <100K in checking account savings which is all they have? Leave it alone or something else?
PARENTS:
ASSETS: $100,000 or less
PARENTS' SOCIAL SECURITY RETIREMENT (THIS IS THEIR ONLY INCOME):
Father: early 70’s, poor health, cannot work
Mother: early 70’s, poor health, cannot work
Total (Father + Mother) Social Security Retirement Income: $15,696 per year = $1,308 a month
Annuity: will not do per your assessment and what I looked at last night as well.
PARENTS' EXPENSES: this projection is for when they stay in my same apartment and we are living apart. I cannot break them down separate from each other and will also need to find out their medicare/copays amount.
Parents if living separate:
Fixed expenses
per month
(generous) Rent w/all utilities included/tv/internet : $2000
Car (used, financing until 2025): $350
Auto + Renters insurance: $110
cell phone family (mine included): $120
Total fixed $2580
flexible expense parents
per month
Car Gas: $80
Car maintenance/repair avg: $150
Groceries: $500
clothing/gifts/donations: $500
Out/entertainment/miscellaneous : $300
Total flexible: $1530
Total monthly $4110
Total after SS benefits $2802
-----------
My personal financial picture:
I am a new physician graduate starting on a low salary compared to my peers with no room for growth where I am. I am blessed to do what I do but currently in process of changing jobs hopefully by August 2022 since I know my earning potential is much more in a different location (out of state) and practice setting. This will help with my current financial obligations not to mention the non-ideal work environment due to corporate acquisition of the practice I am in.
Emergency funds: $87K (10 months generous fixed and flexible with consideration of paying separate rent expenses of 2K/month for parents to live on their own)
Debt: No consumer debt. No mortgage, currently renting 2B/2B (parents sharing), own my payed off 13 yr old vehicle. Only debt is Medical school school debt in the amount of $262K (avg Federal loan interest rate 6.5%). I plan to refinance if I make the move to a new higher paying job next year. I am considering using 4 months of the above emergency funds currently in HY savings account to pay off a portion prior to refinancing to lower rate once my new contract is signed if that is advisable.
Tax Filing Status: Single
Tax Rate: 32%
State of Residence: (prefer to leave out for anonymity)
Age: 34-35
Desired Asset allocation: ~85% stocks / 15% bonds
Desired International allocation: 27% of stocks
Size of total portfolio: $52K
Current retirement assets
Taxable
0% cash (for investing – do not include emergency funds)- I have been prioritizing emergency funds due to family situation and setting up for paying for student loans since graduating from residency training last year.
My 401k
19.27% Fidelity 500 Index Fund (FXAIX) (0.01%)
4.6% Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VEXAX) (0.06%)
5.28% Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (0.11%)
My Traditional IRA
5.73% Vanguard Total Bond Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VBTLX) (0.05%)
5.72% Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (0.11%)
13% Vanguard Target Retirement 2050 Fund (VFIFX) (0.15%) – old, no longer contributing to this)
My Roth IRA (stopped contributions since do not qualify due to income bracket)
31% AMERICAN 2055 TARGET DATE RETIREMENT CL C (CCJTX) (1.48%... I know…sold to me when I was a new resident by a “financial advisor”)
HSA invested:
8% Vanguard Target Retirement 2055 Fund (VFFVX) (0.15%)
7.4% Cryptocurrency (I know, but I bought a tiny sum a while back which appreciated, not making contributions here)
Summary if I remove the retirement date funds and look at my IRA and 401K individual index funds, my US stock/Int stock are 59%/27% and US bonds 14% which is similar to my target date funds which I am trending.
______________________________________________________________
Contributions
New annual Contributions
$19500 in 401k (No employer matching contributions)
$6000 in IRA
Available funds
Funds available in my 401(k)
Fidelity 500 Index Fund (FXAIX) (expense ratio 0.01%)
Vanguard Extended Market Index Fund Admiral Shares (VEXAX) (expense ratio 0.06%)
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund Admiral Shares (VTIAX) (expense ratio 0.11%)
Last edited by Kb008 on Tue Oct 19, 2021 9:20 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Let's start here for both you and your parents and go from there: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212&sid=5156c7e3e5 ... 15bfe99469Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Sorry about your situation, how good and decent of you to help.
I agree with the other poster, you need to share your financial picture and options to get help.
I agree with the other poster, you need to share your financial picture and options to get help.
Pale Blue Dot
- Jimbo Moneybags
- Posts: 685
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:26 pm
- Location: Boardwalk
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I think it is more important to know your parents' financial picture to provide informed suggestions.
Why are they in this financial situation? Poor spending habits, low income during working years, unexpected catastrophic expenses, some combination of these?
What is their current situation? List all Income (SS, pensions, etc) and all expenses (housing, food, health care, etc). Savings and investments (how much and how invested/saved). Any debt? Where do they live? Do they have/need a vehicle? That kind of information will help inform our advice/guidance.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
If you feel that they will continue to be completely dependent on your for the rest of their lives, you might consider having them live with you - either in your existing house, or pooling your money with them to get a house with an in-law apartment setup.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
The alternative is to help them find a way to live by themselves in something like discounted senior housing in their own town.
Do you have siblings to help with their support?
This isn't just my wallet. It's an organizer, a memory and an old friend.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I understand the duty many children feel to parents, and I would do the same you are if needed. My mother is in her 70s and still works nearly full time, can one of your parents do that for at least a few years? What would you say the gap is between monthly income (SS) and monthly expenses? Don't buy them an apartment, if anything they should rent rather than buy.
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
-
- Posts: 11420
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Welcome to the forum. +1 to more information about your parents.Jimbo Moneybags wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:53 am I think it is more important to know your parents' financial picture to provide informed suggestions. …
1. Are they frugal and minimizing withdrawals from the $100k in total assets?
2. Have you reviewed their spending to see if any expenses can be reduced?
3. Have they investigated state and local assistance programs they may be eligible for (which are often means and asset tested)? It may be good to add their name to subsidized housing now as there is a long wait. Your circumstances could change - for example, you might relocate for a job.
4. What support are you giving them (housing, food)? How much is the cost of that support to you? You can calculate the housing support you are providing by looking at the incremental increase in your monthly costs for water, electricity, food, etc.
5. Are your parents physically able to work even part time to bring in income to support themselves?
6. How many years of net expenses will their $100k portfolio fund?
7. Do they have adequate car and health insurance? Have they recently received quotes to see if they can reduce premiums? If they are on Medicare, the annual open enrollment runs from Oct 15 to early Dec. Do they have any RX with expensive co-pays? They might qualify for mfr assistance. Are they current with dr visits and taking RX as required? Preventative healthcare and a healthy lifestyle (diet and exercise) will help keep healthcare costs down.
8. Do they have long-term care insurance?
9. Do your parents have wills, durable power of attorney for financial matters (naming each other and you), healthcare POA (naming each other and you), and advance directives? Do you have originals of these documents for your files? You will likely need the POAs in the future to help them with financial and healthcare matters. Your state may have free/subsidized legal assistance programs to help put these documents in place.
10. Living together as adults may need some effort to change the historical parent-child relationship. While you work to earn $ for the family support, are your parents helpful housemates (have they taken some of the load off you for chores such as grocery shopping, meal prep, cleaning, laundry, yard work)? Or are you also taking care of these duties for them too thus increasing your home workload?
Over to you:
1. Can you afford to provide the monthly support $ they need now without impacting your retirement contributions? These costs may rise in the future if they need more care.
2. Consider what will happen to your parents if something happens to you - you lose your job, you become incapacitated and cannot work, you die before them. Consider whether you have adequate disability insurance, life insurance naming them as beneficiary and a will that provides for them.
3. Are there any other family members who can share the financial and other support of your parents?
4. Do you provide enough $ assistance to claim them as dependents for tax purposes if there is any $ benefit?
Last edited by HomeStretch on Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:50 am, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
This thread is now in the Personal Investments forum (portfolio help).
If you have any questions, ask them here.
As exodusNH suggests, please post your portfolio information in this thread using the Asking Portfolio Questions format. It will make you think about the "big picture" while giving us the information we need to point you in the right direction.exodusNH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:48 am Let's start here for both you and your parents and go from there: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212&sid=5156c7e3e5 ... 15bfe99469
If you have any questions, ask them here.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
“Less than 100k on hand”
Welcome to the club, your parents are in the same situation as 80% of older Americans. Be glad it’s not worse- my parents have exactly ZERO (actually less, they lease cars and rent) and still work full time approaching 80 in spite of both being in active cancer treatment and my dad just coming off heart surgery. They both adamantly refuse to discuss finances, etc with any of the kids so I have no idea what their true situation or end of life wishes are.
Solution is they will keep working as long as they can, and when the time comes live with me or my sibling. Same as families all over the world have done for generations.
Welcome to the club, your parents are in the same situation as 80% of older Americans. Be glad it’s not worse- my parents have exactly ZERO (actually less, they lease cars and rent) and still work full time approaching 80 in spite of both being in active cancer treatment and my dad just coming off heart surgery. They both adamantly refuse to discuss finances, etc with any of the kids so I have no idea what their true situation or end of life wishes are.
Solution is they will keep working as long as they can, and when the time comes live with me or my sibling. Same as families all over the world have done for generations.
Last edited by jharkin on Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:37 am, edited 2 times in total.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Perhaps you didn't understand the reference but it means they may need to go back to work and there are a plethora of jobs available for seniors.
Last edited by Nate79 on Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:52 am, edited 1 time in total.
- AnnetteLouisan
- Posts: 7263
- Joined: Sat Sep 18, 2021 10:16 pm
- Location: New York, NY
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
They have you, they have each other, they have $100k, medicare and social security, they paid off all their debts apparently, 70 is the new 50 and they probably are eligible for SNAP or food banks. If they can stay in reasonable health, dine at the local senior center, keep their costs to the bare minimum and stay active by doing chores or getting part time jobs I think you all can pull it off. Where there‘s a will there’s a way. Stay positive!
Last edited by AnnetteLouisan on Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:49 am, edited 1 time in total.
- CRC_Volunteer
- Posts: 568
- Joined: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:57 am
- Location: Southeast USA
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
+100AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:41 am They have you, they have each other, they have $100k, medicare and social security, 70 is the new 50 and they probably are eligible for SNAP or food banks. If they can stay in reasonable health, dine at the local senior center, keep their costs to the bare minimum and stay active by doing chores or getting part time jobs I think you all can pull it off. Where there‘s a will there’s a way. Stay positive!
"Let me explain. No, there is too much. Let me sum up." (Inigo Montoya) |
|
65/30/05 | 53% VTSAX | 12% VTIAX | 30% VAIPX | 5% CASH
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I'd agree. You do not mention the option of living together, which, frankly, would be the most cost effective. If I understand your post correctly, your parents have only limited SS income and $100k AFTER selling their home and paying debts? No other resources to speak of?JoeRetire wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:43 amIf you feel that they will continue to be completely dependent on your for the rest of their lives, you might consider having them live with you - either in your existing house, or pooling your money with them to get a house with an in-law apartment setup.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
The alternative is to help them find a way to live by themselves in something like discounted senior housing in their own town.
Do you have siblings to help with their support?
I suspect low-cost senior housing is going to be a long wait (sign up now). In the meantime, I think the only option you may have is to combine households and get a house to match or remodel existing if need be. If they live with you, SS should be enough to cover their expenses, at least it did for my FIL for the nine years he lived with us, and his SS was quite modest. Have you had a conversation with them about options and what they would be willing to chip in to make an extended household work?
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
- Nicolas Perrault
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Thu Sep 27, 2018 12:33 pm
- Location: Oxford, UK
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
OP are your parents still working or are they retired? If they are retired, were they forced into retirement for health reasons? Apart from relying on you, which is less than ideal, your parents have three options, only two of which are good options:
1. Take more risk with their 100k. Not a real option. As Bill Bernstein says, they are skydiving and their parachute are sweaty palms. No time to take more risk.
2. Keep working.
3. Spend less.
Some combination of 2 and 3 (keep working and spend less), if they have the health and ability to keep working, is probably the best option at this point. From your original post, we don't know much about neither their situation nor your own situation, so we don't know how much financial help you can offer. Agreed, neither "keep working" nor "spend less" are particularly exciting. But they are likely better than the alternatives.
1. Take more risk with their 100k. Not a real option. As Bill Bernstein says, they are skydiving and their parachute are sweaty palms. No time to take more risk.
2. Keep working.
3. Spend less.
Some combination of 2 and 3 (keep working and spend less), if they have the health and ability to keep working, is probably the best option at this point. From your original post, we don't know much about neither their situation nor your own situation, so we don't know how much financial help you can offer. Agreed, neither "keep working" nor "spend less" are particularly exciting. But they are likely better than the alternatives.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Thank you ! I have edited to my original postexodusNH wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:48 amLet's start here for both you and your parents and go from there: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=6212&sid=5156c7e3e5 ... 15bfe99469Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
It is OK they are my parents so I would do anything to take care of them. I edited my post above with more info. Thanks for your reply.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Of course. It's a very long story with health issues, family tragedies, and a combination of the above. Only savings is <100K in their checking. They lost the rest. They will need an additional $3,500 a month for total assistance (housing, car, flexible, health expenses etc) from me.Jimbo Moneybags wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:53 amI think it is more important to know your parents' financial picture to provide informed suggestions.
Why are they in this financial situation? Poor spending habits, low income during working years, unexpected catastrophic expenses, some combination of these?
What is their current situation? List all Income (SS, pensions, etc) and all expenses (housing, food, health care, etc). Savings and investments (how much and how invested/saved). Any debt? Where do they live? Do they have/need a vehicle? That kind of information will help inform our advice/guidance.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
They will be dependent on me. Sister is ill and cannot work, her husband is supportive and my parents have been staying with her half the time and I over the past 1.5yrs. Financially I am the one to support them. I would prefer to not put them in discounted housing in a bad part of town and can afford to not drive a newer car/other luxuries and use that money to pay reasonable rent in a good part of town for them.JoeRetire wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:43 amIf you feel that they will continue to be completely dependent on your for the rest of their lives, you might consider having them live with you - either in your existing house, or pooling your money with them to get a house with an in-law apartment setup.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
The alternative is to help them find a way to live by themselves in something like discounted senior housing in their own town.
Do you have siblings to help with their support?
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Thank you for your advice. The gap is 3.5K (SS is minimal since my mother was stay at home due to health etc and father had to retire early due to health). I plan on renting for them for the foreseeable future.z3r0c00l wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:55 am I understand the duty many children feel to parents, and I would do the same you are if needed. My mother is in her 70s and still works nearly full time, can one of your parents do that for at least a few years? What would you say the gap is between monthly income (SS) and monthly expenses? Don't buy them an apartment, if anything they should rent rather than buy.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Kb008,
This is not reasonable and does not make any sense.
1) How much is their social security benefits? At least 24K per year?
2) How much is their annual expense and what is the break down?
Please note that this your choice but I am giving you some advice given my observation of my friends and family in similar situation.
A) If you are overly generous and say yes to every demands from your parents, you would be forced to say no later. Then, you would failed their high expectation. YOU would be the PROBLEM.
B) It is easier to say NO and be TOUGH in the beginning. If you say yes to some stuff later, you would be considered as GENEROUS.
4 now and 5 later -> Generous person
5 now and 4 later -> Stingy person
<<They will need an additional $3,500 a month for total assistance (housing, car, flexible, health expenses etc) from me.>>
Where does this number comes from? From their "wants"?
Social Security of at least 24K per year? Plus another 42K from you. This is 66K per year. The median US household income is about 50K to 60K per year.
If you say yes now, they would ask for more. Then, eventually, you would have to say no. You would be the BAD person.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
HomeStretch wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:25 amWelcome to the forum. +1 to more information about your parents.Jimbo Moneybags wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:53 am I think it is more important to know your parents' financial picture to provide informed suggestions. …
1. Are they frugal and minimizing withdrawals from the $100k in total assets? - They are, they only use it for gas and food.
2. Have you reviewed their spending to see if any expenses can be reduced? I have, tbh it is bare bones, the only thing is housing which will be renting for the forceable future and I can take care of that. i thought of purchasing this year but with property values up so much holding off.
3. Have they investigated state and local assistance programs they may be eligible for (which are often means and asset tested)? It may be good to add their name to subsidized housing now as there is a long wait. Your circumstances could change - for example, you might relocate for a job. I can sacrifice personally on my expenses and position them in a better neighborhood for rent.
4. What support are you giving them (housing, food)? How much is the cost of that support to you? You can calculate the housing support you are providing by looking at the incremental increase in your monthly costs for water, electricity, food, etc. My increase has been slightly with food (although my mother cooks daily), incremental increase in gas, miscellaneous small health expenses I pay with my HSA for whatever Medicare does not pay for them. Other than that it is mainly $650 more for a larger apartment so they stay with me.
5. Are your parents physically able to work even part time to bring in income to support themselves? No
6. How many years of net expenses will their $100k portfolio fund? 3 years tops.
7. Do they have adequate car and health insurance? Have they recently received quotes to see if they can reduce premiums? If they are on Medicare, the annual open enrollment runs from Oct 15 to early Dec. Do they have any RX with expensive co-pays? They might qualify for mfr assistance. Are they current with dr visits and taking RX as required? Preventative healthcare and a healthy lifestyle (diet and exercise) will help keep healthcare costs down. - Yes, OWN occupation disability for my medical specialty, Term Life, they have Medicare I help with miscellaneous expenses with my HSA. They exercise moderately but are stable.
8. Do they have long-term care insurance? I do not, I would have to read up on this. Do you recommend this?
9. Do your parents have wills, durable power of attorney for financial matters (naming each other and you), healthcare POA (naming each other and you), and advance directives? Do you have originals of these documents for your files? You will likely need the POAs in the future to help them with financial and healthcare matters. Your state may have free/subsidized legal assistance programs to help put these documents in place. - Yes
10. Living together as adults may need some effort to change the historical parent-child relationship. While you work to earn $ for the family support, are your parents helpful housemates (have they taken some of the load off you for chores such as grocery shopping, meal prep, cleaning, laundry, yard work)? Or are you also taking care of these duties for them too thus increasing your home workload? - My mother and father are more than helpful in this arena. They have been out temporarily to help my sister with her newborn and other child given her poor health condition.
Over to you:
1. Can you afford to provide the monthly support $ they need now without impacting your retirement contributions? These costs may rise in the future if they need more care. I should be able to especially if I move to higher paying job.
2. Consider what will happen to your parents if something happens to you - you lose your job, you become incapacitated and cannot work, you die before them. Consider whether you have adequate disability insurance, life insurance naming them as beneficiary and a will that provides for them. - I do.
3. Are there any other family members who can share the financial and other support of your parents? Unfortunately, no.
4. Do you provide enough $ assistance to claim them as dependents for tax purposes if there is any $ benefit? Yes
-
- Posts: 3579
- Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:45 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
If you are considering this a long term arrangement, look for housing that can be shared but with separate spaces. They probably need to be willing to move with you if you move. Look carefully at the irs guidelines on adult dependents. If you meet all the guidelines, you may be able to get additional tax credits for adult dependents. Think carefully about budgeting with them starting out. Can they cover their day to day expenses if you provide housing, utilities and insurance (but not cash)? The arrangement needs to keep some personal space and financial planning for your own success. You can't help them if you can't take care of your own needs.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I am sorryjharkin wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 7:44 am “Less than 100k on hand”
Welcome to the club, your parents are in the same situation as 80% of older Americans. Be glad it’s not worse- my parents have exactly ZERO (actually less, they lease cars and rent) and still work full time approaching 80 in spite of both being in active cancer treatment and my dad just coming off heart surgery. They both adamantly refuse to discuss finances, etc with any of the kids so I have no idea what their true situation or end of life wishes are.
Solution is they will keep working as long as they can, and when the time comes live with me or my sibling. Same as families all over the world have done for generations.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Thank you!AnnetteLouisan wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:41 am They have you, they have each other, they have $100k, medicare and social security, they paid off all their debts apparently, 70 is the new 50 and they probably are eligible for SNAP or food banks. If they can stay in reasonable health, dine at the local senior center, keep their costs to the bare minimum and stay active by doing chores or getting part time jobs I think you all can pull it off. Where there‘s a will there’s a way. Stay positive!
-
- Posts: 11420
- Joined: Thu Dec 27, 2018 2:06 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
We too are supporting one set of parents in their 80s who through no fault of their own are running out of assets due to one parent with dementia who just required in-facility care with a one year private pay commitment. We are learning there is no shame in needing public assistance as we cannot afford >$300k/yr to support one parent in the facility and another parent living on their own. So my following comments come from that point of view.
Rather than you fund the $3,500/month now, consider having your parents spend down their $100k over the next 28 months. You can provide assistance later as needed. Most needs-based assistance programs are income and/or assets tested so the $100k may make them ineligible. After they spend down their assets, your parents don’t have to utilize all assistance programs like low income housing or food assistance if you are providing that. But at a minimum, utilizing just Medicaid (rather than Medicare) for healthcare costs and possible long-term care costs can take some of the financial burden off you. Healthcare related costs often increase as people reach their 80s.
If you haven’t seen the cost of in-home/in-facility long-term care, it is astonishingly high. My area is $200k-$225k/year for a good skilled nursing facility and the better ones require 6-12 month private pay in order to get in ahead of the 3-4 year waiting list for people trying to enter Day 1 on Medicaid (which reimbursed the facility at a lower rate than private pay people). Very difficult for most families to afford it.
Last edited by HomeStretch on Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:04 pm, edited 3 times in total.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
We have. They chip in the most they can and are more than helpful at home.Tdubs wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 8:59 amI'd agree. You do not mention the option of living together, which, frankly, would be the most cost effective. If I understand your post correctly, your parents have only limited SS income and $100k AFTER selling their home and paying debts? No other resources to speak of?JoeRetire wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 6:43 amIf you feel that they will continue to be completely dependent on your for the rest of their lives, you might consider having them live with you - either in your existing house, or pooling your money with them to get a house with an in-law apartment setup.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm Hello Bogleheads,
I am in completely uncharted waters here and only have experience with personal finances relative to my age (early 30s). My father and mother (in their early 70s) have less than $100K on hand that they are using through their checking acc for their retirement income in addition to minimal SS benefits. They have been through so much over the past 20+ years financially and health wise that they have recently had to sell their home of 35 yrs to pay their off debts. They are completely financially dependent on me (living with me for the time being after selling their home last year) and I am supporting them fully all the while making sure I am OK from a financial perspective long term.
I have been hesitant to ask for help here but after consulting with an paid advisor (whom I am not confident in) and personally looking at different options (ie purchase an Annuity, reinvesting a portion of their funds in conservative stock/bond index, purchasing an apartment for them with their money and then supporting them for the other expense) I am honestly lost.
I would appreciate any resources or advice you may have regarding this situation.
The alternative is to help them find a way to live by themselves in something like discounted senior housing in their own town.
Do you have siblings to help with their support?
I suspect low-cost senior housing is going to be a long wait (sign up now). In the meantime, I think the only option you may have is to combine households and get a house to match or remodel existing if need be. If they live with you, SS should be enough to cover their expenses, at least it did for my FIL for the nine years he lived with us, and his SS was quite modest. Have you had a conversation with them about options and what they would be willing to chip in to make an extended household work?
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Nicolas Perrault wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 am OP are your parents still working or are they retired? If they are retired, were they forced into retirement for health reasons? Apart from relying on you, which is less than ideal, your parents have three options, only two of which are good options:
1. Take more risk with their 100k. Not a real option. As Bill Bernstein says, they are skydiving and their parachute are sweaty palms. No time to take more risk.
2. Keep working.
3. Spend less.
Some combination of 2 and 3 (keep working and spend less), if they have the health and ability to keep working, is probably the best option at this point. From your original post, we don't know much about neither their situation nor your own situation, so we don't know how much financial help you can offer. Agreed, neither "keep working" nor "spend less" are particularly exciting. But they are likely better than the alternatives.
They are retired. Cannot work. Option 3 is the only one at this time. I guess the <100K should just stay in their checking for now.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 12:49 pmKb008,
This is not reasonable and does not make any sense.
1) How much is their social security benefits? At least 24K per year?
2) How much is their annual expense and what is the break down?
Please note that this your choice but I am giving you some advice given my observation of my friends and family in similar situation.
A) If you are overly generous and say yes to every demands from your parents, you would be forced to say no later. Then, you would failed their high expectation. YOU would be the PROBLEM.
B) It is easier to say NO and be TOUGH in the beginning. If you say yes to some stuff later, you would be considered as GENEROUS.
4 now and 5 later -> Generous person
5 now and 4 later -> Stingy person
<<They will need an additional $3,500 a month for total assistance (housing, car, flexible, health expenses etc) from me.>>
Where does this number comes from? From their "wants"?
Social Security of at least 24K per year? Plus another 42K from you. This is 66K per year. The median US household income is about 50K to 60K per year.
If you say yes now, they would ask for more. Then, eventually, you would have to say no. You would be the BAD person.
KlangFool
My parents are actually very difficult to give money to or help. They were stubborn to move in with me and do not like it when I purchase groceries/pay for gas etc. They have no demands at all and feel horrible about their situation. My father especially still has not come to terms that they will be dependent on me for life.
SS benefit is 15K/yr (mother was stay at home/health etc, father retired early/disability). Their total expense factoring in emergency health issues would be at most 50K a year for both of them.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Very sorry to hear that. I really appreciate your insight. My though was that the $100K should be untouched and used only for the emergencies you have described. I guess I felt more comfortable providing assistance while they held on to that money with their backup safety fund that they would not have touched. That is why I was wondering if to save that money, convert to annuity, or invest with lower risk mix rather than they burn through it.HomeStretch wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:01 pmWe too are supporting one set of parents in their 80s who through no fault of their own are running out of assets due to one parent with dementia who just required in-facility care with a one year private pay commitment. We are learning there is no shame in needing public assistance as we cannot afford >$300k/yr to support one parent in the facility and another parent living on their own. So my following comments come from that point of view.
Rather than you fund the $3,500/month now, consider having your parents spend down their $100k over the next 28 months. You can provide assistance later as needed. Most needs-based assistance programs are income and/or assets tested so the $100k may make them ineligible. After they spend down their assets, your parents don’t have to utilize all assistance programs like low income housing or food assistance if you are providing that. But at a minimum, utilizing just Medicaid (rather than Medicare) for healthcare costs and possible long-term care costs can take some of the financial burden off you. Healthcare related costs often increase as people reach their 80s.
If you haven’t seen the cost of in-home/in-facility long-term care, it is astonishingly high. My area is $200k-$225k/year for a good skilled nursing facility and the better ones require 6-12 month private pay in order to get in ahead of the 3-4 year waiting list. Very difficult for most families to afford it.
- teen persuasion
- Posts: 2327
- Joined: Sun Oct 25, 2015 1:43 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
+1Jimbo Moneybags wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 3:53 amI think it is more important to know your parents' financial picture to provide informed suggestions.
Why are they in this financial situation? Poor spending habits, low income during working years, unexpected catastrophic expenses, some combination of these?
What is their current situation? List all Income (SS, pensions, etc) and all expenses (housing, food, health care, etc). Savings and investments (how much and how invested/saved). Any debt? Where do they live? Do they have/need a vehicle? That kind of information will help inform our advice/guidance.
OP, you need to fill in your parents' info, too. What are their expenses that the gap after SS is $3500/mo? For reference, that alone is higher than we've ever spent raising a family of 7, so I'm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Kb008,
If you find out that the 100K costed your parent about 20K per year of benefits, would you still say no? And, with that 20K per year, they could be INDEPENDENT, would you still say no?
I do not know the answer whether it is 20K per year. But, please do not rule it out until you know the full details.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
-
- Posts: 4382
- Joined: Sun Mar 08, 2009 8:01 am
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Sorry to hear of your difficult situation. I commend you for stepping up and helping your parents. Sooner or later in life, the roles tend to reverse.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm I am a new physician graduate starting on a low salary compared to my peers with no room for growth where I am. I am blessed to do what I do but currently in process of changing jobs hopefully by August 2022 since I know my earning potential is much more in a different location (out of state) and practice setting. This will help with my current financial obligations not to mention the non-ideal work environment due to corporate acquisition of the practice I am in.
I think the single most important thing you can do is maximize your own earning potential. Fortunately, you have a degree and the ability to make a great deal of money. Don't let the other stuff become a distraction to your career, life and happiness. I'm currently paying $3,500 a month in so-called "child support" which I am able more or less take in stride. Your obligation, like mine, has an endpoint, particularly considering your parents are in poor health.
Be careful about being "too close" in living arrangements. You're single, starting out your career, and need a home and space of your own. I wouldn't want to share a house with elder relatives unless it was a true separate quarters with separate entrance, etc. Your date or significant other might not be comfortable with close shared living space.
If you're earning good money, you can have your own life and support your parents too. There might be some opportunity for arbitrage if you live and work in a HCOL city, and rent them a modest place in a different geographic area. I do think that $3,500/mo in addition to social security, albeit modest, is a lot to pay in support.
No magic bullet here on re-arranging investments or buying an annuity. Your income is going to be what carries you though this.
Last edited by Outer Marker on Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I take it from your revised post that your only question for us is what to do with their $100k? That seems to me to be the least important issue for them. On that question, I don't think you have a lot of options. Investing in the market carries significant risk for them late in life and their expenses will swamp whatever growth you might get anyway. Best to keep it at the ready for emergent needs while you cover their ongoing expenses. You could tinker with safe investments like I-bonds, but that isn't going to move the dial much.Kb008 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:02 pmNicolas Perrault wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 am OP are your parents still working or are they retired? If they are retired, were they forced into retirement for health reasons? Apart from relying on you, which is less than ideal, your parents have three options, only two of which are good options:
1. Take more risk with their 100k. Not a real option. As Bill Bernstein says, they are skydiving and their parachute are sweaty palms. No time to take more risk.
2. Keep working.
3. Spend less.
Some combination of 2 and 3 (keep working and spend less), if they have the health and ability to keep working, is probably the best option at this point. From your original post, we don't know much about neither their situation nor your own situation, so we don't know how much financial help you can offer. Agreed, neither "keep working" nor "spend less" are particularly exciting. But they are likely better than the alternatives.
They are retired. Cannot work. Option 3 is the only one at this time. I guess the <100K should just stay in their checking for now.
As KlangFool noted, the key issue is their annual expenses.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
you seem to think that senior housing and low-income housing is poor quality or bad part of town. that assumption could be wrong! it might be very nice and simply a matter of time on a long wait list. of course you need to research the offerings your own area. don't discard the idea too quick.I would prefer to not put them in discounted housing in a bad part of town and can afford to not drive a newer car/other luxuries and use that money to pay reasonable rent in a good part of town for them.
my other suggestion is make a plan to move to somewhere you make more money, so you will have more resources for everyone you're supporting. i understand it will be complicated since you need to find a job, and choose a town you like to live in, and it has to fit your parents needs (medical? social? etc). but you need a lot more earning power if your longterm idea is to support 3 adults on 1 salary. i think it's good you're helping them but you can't be sacrificing your retirement savings or stay in student loan debt.
60-20-20 us-intl-bond
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
OP,
In some places, the county pay for the family members to take care of the senior citizen (parents) at their home. Is it possible for your sister to be paid by the county for taking care of your parents at her home? The amount could be up to 10K to 20K per senior citizen.
If yes, this could be a win for both your sister and your parents.
KlangFool
In some places, the county pay for the family members to take care of the senior citizen (parents) at their home. Is it possible for your sister to be paid by the county for taking care of your parents at her home? The amount could be up to 10K to 20K per senior citizen.
If yes, this could be a win for both your sister and your parents.
KlangFool
30% VWENX | 16% VFWAX/VTIAX | 14.5% VTSAX | 19.5% VBTLX | 10% VSIAX/VTMSX/VSMAX | 10% VSIGX| 30% Wellington 50% 3-funds 20% Mini-Larry
- arcticpineapplecorp.
- Posts: 15081
- Joined: Tue Mar 06, 2012 8:22 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Can you use your HSA on a nonspouse's medical expenses?
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
What are the long term living plans for your parents continue to live with you or get a place of their own? I saw you mentioned rent support so I would assume their own place. From a pure financial aspect living with you should be the most economic choice. A single mortgage/rent payment, single set of utilities, may not need a car, etc. The SS could either be used to help support the household expenses or saved to provide them with more cushion to the $100K.
If the plan is their own place what happens when you move out of state? Based on health comments it sounds like they will need more than just financial support. That becomes more difficult out of state.
If the plan is their own place what happens when you move out of state? Based on health comments it sounds like they will need more than just financial support. That becomes more difficult out of state.
-
- Posts: 4284
- Joined: Thu Apr 23, 2020 12:44 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
You said they get $15k/year SS and need an additional $3.5k/month.
That’s ~$4700/month.
Where’s the money going? What are their expenses?
That’s ~$4700/month.
Where’s the money going? What are their expenses?
-
- Posts: 1672
- Joined: Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:20 pm
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Based on your responses so far, it seems you have decided to rent a house for your parents and pay them $3.5k pocket money per month on top of that.
This is not a Boglehead way to manage finances, but it's your money. You can do whatever you want...
It is not clear what you are asking advice for...
25% VTI | 25% VXUS | 12.5% AVUV | 10% AVDV | 2.5% VWO | 25% BND/SCHR/SCHP
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I certainly would be wanting to dig in to what the 3,500 per month extra is needed for. If I subtract daycare expenses for 3 children from my monthly budget, I spend less than that for a family of 6. Methinks there is a lot of fat to cut in there, and the definition of fat would be quite liberal for me if my parents wanted to live with me and have me subsidize their living.
While I can understand renting a place for them may be as much of a lifestyle decision for you and your family as it is for your parents (I might well consider it vs just permanently having them move in), having rent taken care of should mean SS at 1200/mom should go a long way. My grandmother made it on SS of less than that plus section 8 housing.
In any case I’m not paying 3500 a month while they have six figures in checking. Spend that down first if “dependence” is truly on the table.
While I can understand renting a place for them may be as much of a lifestyle decision for you and your family as it is for your parents (I might well consider it vs just permanently having them move in), having rent taken care of should mean SS at 1200/mom should go a long way. My grandmother made it on SS of less than that plus section 8 housing.
In any case I’m not paying 3500 a month while they have six figures in checking. Spend that down first if “dependence” is truly on the table.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:36 pmSorry to hear of your difficult situation. I commend you for stepping up and helping your parents. Sooner or later in life, the roles tend to reverse.Kb008 wrote: ↑Fri Oct 15, 2021 11:56 pm I am a new physician graduate starting on a low salary compared to my peers with no room for growth where I am. I am blessed to do what I do but currently in process of changing jobs hopefully by August 2022 since I know my earning potential is much more in a different location (out of state) and practice setting. This will help with my current financial obligations not to mention the non-ideal work environment due to corporate acquisition of the practice I am in.
I think the single most important thing you can do is maximize your own earning potential. Fortunately, you have a degree and the ability to make a great deal of money. Don't let the other stuff become a distraction to your career, life and happiness. I'm currently paying $3,500 a month in so-called "child support" which I am able more or less take in stride. Your obligation, like mine, has an endpoint, particularly considering your parents are in poor health.
Be careful about being "too close" in living arrangements. You're single, starting out your career, and need a home and space of your own. I wouldn't want to share a house with elder relatives unless it was a true separate quarters with separate entrance, etc. Your date or significant other might not be comfortable with close shared living space.
If you're earning good money, you can have your own life and support your parents too. There might be some opportunity for arbitrage if you live and work in a HCOL city, and rent them a modest place in a different geographic area. I do think that $3,500/mo in addition to social security, albeit modest, is a lot to pay in support.
No magic bullet here on re-arranging investments or buying an annuity. Your income is going to be what carries you though this.
Thank you. They will not be living with me in the future and will need their own place. The next year will present a lot of change. They and I will be in different but low cost of living areas. I agree that my income will be the only way to carry through this and the reason I am changing jobs for better opportunity especially since my SO and I are looking to start a family after marriage. Appreciate your advice!
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
thanks for your input. Yes, I think the market investment idea is not the way to go and I-bonds may not be worth the trouble at this time. The annual expenses for them is at $50K, SS benefits of $15K.Tdubs wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:39 pmI take it from your revised post that your only question for us is what to do with their $100k? That seems to me to be the least important issue for them. On that question, I don't think you have a lot of options. Investing in the market carries significant risk for them late in life and their expenses will swamp whatever growth you might get anyway. Best to keep it at the ready for emergent needs while you cover their ongoing expenses. You could tinker with safe investments like I-bonds, but that isn't going to move the dial much.Kb008 wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:02 pmNicolas Perrault wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 9:23 am OP are your parents still working or are they retired? If they are retired, were they forced into retirement for health reasons? Apart from relying on you, which is less than ideal, your parents have three options, only two of which are good options:
1. Take more risk with their 100k. Not a real option. As Bill Bernstein says, they are skydiving and their parachute are sweaty palms. No time to take more risk.
2. Keep working.
3. Spend less.
Some combination of 2 and 3 (keep working and spend less), if they have the health and ability to keep working, is probably the best option at this point. From your original post, we don't know much about neither their situation nor your own situation, so we don't know how much financial help you can offer. Agreed, neither "keep working" nor "spend less" are particularly exciting. But they are likely better than the alternatives.
They are retired. Cannot work. Option 3 is the only one at this time. I guess the <100K should just stay in their checking for now.
As KlangFool noted, the key issue is their annual expenses.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
I do not know much about senior housing to be honest. I will definitely look into it in my area - thanks for the advice!cchrissyy wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:42 pmyou seem to think that senior housing and low-income housing is poor quality or bad part of town. that assumption could be wrong! it might be very nice and simply a matter of time on a long wait list. of course you need to research the offerings your own area. don't discard the idea too quick.I would prefer to not put them in discounted housing in a bad part of town and can afford to not drive a newer car/other luxuries and use that money to pay reasonable rent in a good part of town for them.
my other suggestion is make a plan to move to somewhere you make more money, so you will have more resources for everyone you're supporting. i understand it will be complicated since you need to find a job, and choose a town you like to live in, and it has to fit your parents needs (medical? social? etc). but you need a lot more earning power if your longterm idea is to support 3 adults on 1 salary. i think it's good you're helping them but you can't be sacrificing your retirement savings or stay in student loan debt.
I will hopefully be moving to a job with much better earning next year which will help me avoid sacrificing any of my retirement savings and paying of student loans within 7 years as well as have my own life.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Great advice I will look into this!KlangFool wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 1:46 pm OP,
In some places, the county pay for the family members to take care of the senior citizen (parents) at their home. Is it possible for your sister to be paid by the county for taking care of your parents at her home? The amount could be up to 10K to 20K per senior citizen.
If yes, this could be a win for both your sister and your parents.
KlangFool
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
You can use on dependents per IRS website.arcticpineapplecorp. wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:02 pmCan you use your HSA on a nonspouse's medical expenses?
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Their health is not so bad where they are not independent or risk on their own. They have extended family in the area who are close by. The plan would be to have their own small apartment or other housing once I am able to move to a higher paying job so as to not sacrifice my financial health and can support the extra expense.WhatsIRR wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:04 pm What are the long term living plans for your parents continue to live with you or get a place of their own? I saw you mentioned rent support so I would assume their own place. From a pure financial aspect living with you should be the most economic choice. A single mortgage/rent payment, single set of utilities, may not need a car, etc. The SS could either be used to help support the household expenses or saved to provide them with more cushion to the $100K.
If the plan is their own place what happens when you move out of state? Based on health comments it sounds like they will need more than just financial support. That becomes more difficult out of state.
Re: Parents with no retirement savings dependent on me
Sorry, I miswrote and miscalculated. They have a total of 50K of expenses per year with 15K SS assistance. I will have to assist 35K/yr which is <3K/month.tashnewbie wrote: ↑Sat Oct 16, 2021 2:17 pm You said they get $15k/year SS and need an additional $3.5k/month.
That’s ~$4700/month.
Where’s the money going? What are their expenses?