Is Vanguard so bad?
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I don't think so. Been with them for many years.
Thou shalt take no risks that thou needest not take. Seek wisdom not knowledge. Knowledge is of the past; wisdom is of the future.
-
- Posts: 1193
- Joined: Fri Sep 27, 2013 4:03 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Vanguard was adequate for us for many years, but I wanted to have all our accounts at one institution for the sake of simplicity, including checking and our credit card.
Fidelity fufills that need perfectly. Glad we switched.
Fidelity fufills that need perfectly. Glad we switched.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
+1....Fidelity is pretty good....we have an investment account and credit card with them.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
+2. If vanguard still works for you, great, still use them. For many of us recently, we've needed to contact them and couldn't, and that "live chat" button on Fidelity/Schwab (accessible to any customer regardless of holdings) is just too tempting... and actually works. I hate calling, and vanguard maybe took away my ability to email them (recent thread). The last times I emailed them, I just received a canned/pasted answer that didn't address my reason for emailing. Schwab/Fidelity reps that I reach may or may not be able to help, but they will honestly tell me so, rather than just pasting something from a FAQ.
No, there's no ulterior motive, I loved vanguard for years and recommended them to everyone until recently. Things changed, I just rolled with them.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I received my 1099 this year on 2/14namajones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:40 am I do remember when I used that Vanguard account years ago I had issues with 1099s that were delivered inexplicably late in the tax filing season (I thought they were required to be available by Feb. 15) and also with funds taking up to 5 days to get into and out of the account, whereas with my brokerage they show up the very next day. Are these the kinds of issues that people are still having problems with?
Thanks.
I do not trade a lot but I think the settlement happens the next day.
My concerns with VG are mostly disappointment that they are not really that different from any other brokerage. I had projected an ethic that does not exist in reality.
I own the next hot stock- VTSAX
-
- Posts: 9446
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Vanguard's "catch 22" goes like this:
— they say they want us to convert our mutual funds to ETFs
— after resisting for several years, I'm now on board with that idea
— I go to my online account and look for the "convert mutual fund to ETF" button, and learn that Vanguard disabled this online function
— Vanguard says to call, so I call Vanguard to request the conversions, but I'm put on hold for nearly an hour
— I hang up the phone in disgust and wonder why Vanguard makes it so difficult for me to do what they want me to do
My interim solution is to ignore Vanguard:
— I now direct all new money to Fidelity and Schwab where I invest it in ETFs
— I deliberately chose low-cost non-Vanguard ETFs since they're just as good
— my Vanguard mutual funds now get no new money, and dividends are automatically reinvested, the ultimate in passive management
— if Vanguard ever restores the online ETF conversion button, I'll click on it in a heartbeat
— they say they want us to convert our mutual funds to ETFs
— after resisting for several years, I'm now on board with that idea
— I go to my online account and look for the "convert mutual fund to ETF" button, and learn that Vanguard disabled this online function
— Vanguard says to call, so I call Vanguard to request the conversions, but I'm put on hold for nearly an hour
— I hang up the phone in disgust and wonder why Vanguard makes it so difficult for me to do what they want me to do
My interim solution is to ignore Vanguard:
— I now direct all new money to Fidelity and Schwab where I invest it in ETFs
— I deliberately chose low-cost non-Vanguard ETFs since they're just as good
— my Vanguard mutual funds now get no new money, and dividends are automatically reinvested, the ultimate in passive management
— if Vanguard ever restores the online ETF conversion button, I'll click on it in a heartbeat
Last edited by UpperNwGuy on Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
That was my thinking, as well.Vulcan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:53 am Vanguard is the only place where I can buy VTWAX commission-free.
Since there are no VTWAX equivalents from other fund families, and I have no interest in dealing with ETFs (VT) or approximating Total World via slicing-and-dicing, even if I wanted to leave, there'd be nowhere to go.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I suspect that there's a good chance I will die without every having listened to a "podcast."Grt2bOutdoors wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:28 am My guess is you did not listen to the recent podcasts with Fran Kinnery
-
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Sun Jul 15, 2012 9:48 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Over the past year or two especially, I've noticed that it is very difficult to get a person on the line to talk through a question or an issue.
For example, I have two retirement accounts but can only update beneficiaries on one of them. There is actually no Edit link to update the beneficiaries on the second account. So this is something I cannot solve without technical assistance of some kind.
Also, when you try to find a telephone number when clicking on the 'Support' link when logged into your account, good luck. They have done a very good job of hiding their numbers. To find a number, I opened a second browser and performed a Google search.
As I write this I have been on hold for over 45 minutes waiting for my call to be answered (I waited 15 minutes last night before running out of time). I remember in the past wait times were less than a few minutes.
I'm definitely ready to move my accounts to another institution.
For example, I have two retirement accounts but can only update beneficiaries on one of them. There is actually no Edit link to update the beneficiaries on the second account. So this is something I cannot solve without technical assistance of some kind.
Also, when you try to find a telephone number when clicking on the 'Support' link when logged into your account, good luck. They have done a very good job of hiding their numbers. To find a number, I opened a second browser and performed a Google search.
As I write this I have been on hold for over 45 minutes waiting for my call to be answered (I waited 15 minutes last night before running out of time). I remember in the past wait times were less than a few minutes.
I'm definitely ready to move my accounts to another institution.
- Cheez-It Guy
- Posts: 4004
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
But (good) parents often DO know better than children. It's only with age and experience that children (hopefully) realize that their parents had the best interests of their children at heart all along. And I say this as a child, not a parent.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:50 am Vanguard has become too much like a 'parent that knows better than its children'. They will not allow their investors to buy leveraged funds, for instance. Even if I don't want to own leveraged funds, I don't want my broker to tell me what I can and cannot buy with my own money. Investors shouldn't expect these restrictions to end with leveraged funds either; that kind of mindset can lead to all sorts of restrictions.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
You should never really have to call the IRS unless you have a basic question that you were unable to answer through their online documentation. Their staff read off the same information that you can obtain through your personal online account via their website and ultimately if you need resolution for any outstanding issue, it needs to be in writing and snail mailed to various departments for proper closure.
- Cheez-It Guy
- Posts: 4004
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Online conversion to ETFs was never universally advertised, encouraged, or enabled. This was a pilot program which was not expanded to all users.UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:28 pm Vanguard's "catch 22" goes like this:
— they say they want us to convert our mutual funds to ETFs
— after resisting for several years, I'm now on board with that idea
— I go to my online account and look for the "convert mutual fund to ETF" button, and learn that Vanguard disabled this online function
— Vanguard says to call, so I call Vanguard to request the conversions, but I'm put on hold for nearly an hour
— I hang up the phone in disgust and wonder why Vanguard makes it so difficult for me to do what they want me to do
My interim solution is to ignore Vanguard:
— I now direct all new money to Fidelity and Schwab where I invest it in ETFs
— I deliberately chose low-cost non-Vanguard ETFs since they're just as good
— my Vanguard mutual funds now get no new money, and dividends are automatically reinvested, the ultimate in passive management
— if Vanguard ever restores the online ETF conversion button, I'll click on it in a heartbeat
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
So, if they want you to call in to do this, perhaps they should answer the phone?Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:48 pmOnline conversion to ETFs was never universally advertised, encouraged, or enabled. This was a pilot program which was not expanded to all users.UpperNwGuy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:28 pm Vanguard's "catch 22" goes like this:
— they say they want us to convert our mutual funds to ETFs
— after resisting for several years, I'm now on board with that idea
— I go to my online account and look for the "convert mutual fund to ETF" button, and learn that Vanguard disabled this online function
— Vanguard says to call, so I call Vanguard to request the conversions, but I'm put on hold for nearly an hour
— I hang up the phone in disgust and wonder why Vanguard makes it so difficult for me to do what they want me to do
My interim solution is to ignore Vanguard:
— I now direct all new money to Fidelity and Schwab where I invest it in ETFs
— I deliberately chose low-cost non-Vanguard ETFs since they're just as good
— my Vanguard mutual funds now get no new money, and dividends are automatically reinvested, the ultimate in passive management
— if Vanguard ever restores the online ETF conversion button, I'll click on it in a heartbeat
Once in a while you get shown the light, in the strangest of places if you look at it right.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
It depends on what services you need.
Use the account and see what happens.
You can change if VG does not meet your needs.
Use the account and see what happens.
You can change if VG does not meet your needs.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
OP,
I think its a matter of personal preference and the experiences one has had with their broker. I was a Vanguard customer for many years, but switched to Fidelity for reasons unrelated to my Vanguard experience. But I will say that I like Fidelity much better than Vanguard, and there site, tools and security seems to be far superior to Vanguard, at least from my perspective,
I think its a matter of personal preference and the experiences one has had with their broker. I was a Vanguard customer for many years, but switched to Fidelity for reasons unrelated to my Vanguard experience. But I will say that I like Fidelity much better than Vanguard, and there site, tools and security seems to be far superior to Vanguard, at least from my perspective,
- willthrill81
- Posts: 32250
- Joined: Thu Jan 26, 2017 2:17 pm
- Location: USA
- Contact:
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I completely agree with that. My analogy was probably not the best. It's one thing for an adult to tell their small child what's in their best interest. It's another thing entirely for a broker to tell their adult clients what's in their best interest.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:39 pmBut (good) parents often DO know better than children. It's only with age and experience that children (hopefully) realize that their parents had the best interests of their children at heart all along. And I say this as a child, not a parent.willthrill81 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:50 am Vanguard has become too much like a 'parent that knows better than its children'. They will not allow their investors to buy leveraged funds, for instance. Even if I don't want to own leveraged funds, I don't want my broker to tell me what I can and cannot buy with my own money. Investors shouldn't expect these restrictions to end with leveraged funds either; that kind of mindset can lead to all sorts of restrictions.
The Sensible Steward
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
No issues. Just don't have them do anything complicated.
- bertilak
- Posts: 10711
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
- Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I have 13 Vanguard accounts that I monitor and/or manage. Four are mine. One is my wife's. The others belong to children, and various other relatives. It all works fine for me.
I get phone help occasionally. It seems the processes for doing some things change occasionally (or I simply forget how).
My latest cry for telephone help was for gifting to relatives. It turns out there is no button nor obvious link to push or click for that -- you use their "forms" feature. The forms are interactive so they get filled out and submitted online. Vanguard even signs them for me. It seems like a convoluted process but it works and you could could (I presume) print them out and mail them in if you wanted. Perhaps Vanguard needs filled-out forms on record for tax reasons. The rep walked me through one case and I was able to do the rest on my own.
I imagine it would be more complicated if all the accounts were not at the same place. Maybe the forms allow for that -- I don't remember.
I get phone help occasionally. It seems the processes for doing some things change occasionally (or I simply forget how).
My latest cry for telephone help was for gifting to relatives. It turns out there is no button nor obvious link to push or click for that -- you use their "forms" feature. The forms are interactive so they get filled out and submitted online. Vanguard even signs them for me. It seems like a convoluted process but it works and you could could (I presume) print them out and mail them in if you wanted. Perhaps Vanguard needs filled-out forms on record for tax reasons. The rep walked me through one case and I was able to do the rest on my own.
I imagine it would be more complicated if all the accounts were not at the same place. Maybe the forms allow for that -- I don't remember.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
It's not more complicated if the accounts are somewhere else - the forms cover that case as well just fine (FYI)bertilak wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 2:22 pm I have 13 Vanguard accounts that I monitor and/or manage. Four are mine. One is my wife's. The others belong to children, and various other relatives. It all works fine for me.
I get phone help occasionally. It seems the processes for doing some things change occasionally (or I simply forget how).
My latest cry for telephone help was for gifting to relatives. It turns out there is no button nor obvious link to push or click for that -- you use their "forms" feature. The forms are interactive so they get filled out and submitted online. Vanguard even signs them for me. It seems like a convoluted process but it works and you could could (I presume) print them out and mail them in if you wanted. Perhaps Vanguard needs filled-out forms on record for tax reasons. The rep walked me through one case and I was able to do the rest on my own.
I imagine it would be more complicated if all the accounts were not at the same place. Maybe the forms allow for that -- I don't remember.
-
- Posts: 236
- Joined: Tue Oct 02, 2018 11:49 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I've been with Vanguard 30 years, no problems ever. I find the platform easy to use.namajones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:40 am I read a lot of posts these days from people who are abandoning Vanguard and moving their funds elsewhere. Is it the general consensus that Vanguard is worth leaving? I ask because I have a dormant, 0 balance account there, but I'm considering moving some funds in simply to buy a Vanguard mutual fund without having to pay a commission through a brokerage.
I do remember when I used that Vanguard account years ago I had issues with 1099s that were delivered inexplicably late in the tax filing season (I thought they were required to be available by Feb. 15) and also with funds taking up to 5 days to get into and out of the account, whereas with my brokerage they show up the very next day. Are these the kinds of issues that people are still having problems with?
Thanks.
“The more simple we are, the more complete we become.” August Rodin |
|
“The less I needed, the better I felt.” Charles Bukowski
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
It seems that a very common human trait is that when one sees a "pile-on", join the pile-on first, then
ask who/why later.
If VG satisfies your need, use them! No brokerage does everything that any ol' ya'hoo wants or schemes of.
ask who/why later.
If VG satisfies your need, use them! No brokerage does everything that any ol' ya'hoo wants or schemes of.
Last edited by RetiredAL on Thu Oct 14, 2021 3:46 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I have my auto mutual funds set and log in in January for back door roth ira. Haven't had any issues. I think it depends on what it want out of your brokerage. Vanguard might not be the way if you do more active managing.
-
- Posts: 46
- Joined: Tue Sep 22, 2020 5:36 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
We have two IRA's, a Roth IRA, and a taxable account at Vanguard. The bi-weekly auto-invest into taxable always works and nothing much else every happens so we are happy with Vanguard. I called them once to "try out" converting some vtsax to vti. About 20 minutes total time.
I can empathize with the complaints about wait times when calling. If our use case changes and I end up having to call them several times and have to wait an hour I will sour on them quickly. If I was actively trading a portion of my portfolio I would do that on a platform designed for that, but I would still keep all of the long-term stuff at Vanguard.
I can empathize with the complaints about wait times when calling. If our use case changes and I end up having to call them several times and have to wait an hour I will sour on them quickly. If I was actively trading a portion of my portfolio I would do that on a platform designed for that, but I would still keep all of the long-term stuff at Vanguard.
- SmileyFace
- Posts: 9076
- Joined: Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:11 am
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I originally opened a Vanguard account because I was done doing stock trading and ready to just DIY into index funds. Fast foward 20 years and this week I got 2 emails from them - one advertising PAS (a recurring annoyance) and one advertising a new Actively managed bond fund (Vanguard Core-Plus Bond Fund). I didn't invest with Vanguard for these product and while emails and login-walls are easy to delete and dismiss I find it ironic in that I also have accounts at Fidelity and Schwab and neither hounds me to switch to active management.
Regarding support - they don't have 24/7 which can be a pain (others do) and waiting an hour for someone to pick up the phone that isn't equiped to answer questions certainly is frustrating. Add to that the fact they are behind in technology and other brokerage trends and are missing products other brokerages offer - I am done with them. Haven't moved out yet but no new money goes there.
Regarding support - they don't have 24/7 which can be a pain (others do) and waiting an hour for someone to pick up the phone that isn't equiped to answer questions certainly is frustrating. Add to that the fact they are behind in technology and other brokerage trends and are missing products other brokerages offer - I am done with them. Haven't moved out yet but no new money goes there.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Vanguard's web interface UI/UX is abysmal. Weird things like when transferring money in they present you with a screen that makes it look like you are buying something rather than transferring money in. Technically you are buying into the vanguard money market fund, but I've never seen any other brokerage do it that way.
Their buy/sell interface is clunky as well.
It's ok for a buy and hold type investor; perhaps the best fit if you are buying mostly vanguard funds.
Their buy/sell interface is clunky as well.
It's ok for a buy and hold type investor; perhaps the best fit if you are buying mostly vanguard funds.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Maybe I did it wrong but I did my VG Roth conversions by transferring funds from my IRA to my Roth. I did it over several years and never had an issue with the IRS.sureshoe wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:44 am Most brokerages are very similar and some rank higher than others. It's all a matter of opinion, and this thread will likely fill up with those.
I use Ameritrade and it seems to rank very high on lists (google "best brokerages"). It's nice enough, but doesn't blow my socks off. You have to fax to do Roth conversions whereas others do it as an online form. I also use Etrade and Fidelity and Empower. They're all very similar, I honestly would have trouble choosing "the best" or "the worst".
I can't specifically tell you "go or stay", but here's what I'd recommend:
Keep to a single brokerage as much as possible for simplicity.
"Earn All You Can; Give All You Can; Save All You Can." .... John Wesley
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I personally tend to like Vanguard's web site better than Fidelity (where we have an HSA and my wife's employer retirement accounts) of Schwab's.Fedaykin wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:15 pm Vanguard's web interface UI/UX is abysmal. Weird things like when transferring money in they present you with a screen that makes it look like you are buying something rather than transferring money in. Technically you are buying into the vanguard money market fund, but I've never seen any other brokerage do it that way.
Their buy/sell interface is clunky as well.
It's ok for a buy and hold type investor; perhaps the best fit if you are buying mostly vanguard funds.
I am, indeed, a VG MF buy-and-hold investor. But I did have a brief foray into ETFs on Vanguard, TDAmeritrade, and I think Fidelity, and I do not recall experiencing any untowards frustrations with Vanguard's website during that time that go beyond the normal ETF frustrations described in this classic post from ogd:
viewtopic.php?t=148757#p2223489
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
No other company offers a total world fund?namajones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:31 pmThat was my thinking, as well.Vulcan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:53 am Vanguard is the only place where I can buy VTWAX commission-free.
Since there are no VTWAX equivalents from other fund families, and I have no interest in dealing with ETFs (VT) or approximating Total World via slicing-and-dicing, even if I wanted to leave, there'd be nowhere to go.
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26297
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
No, Vanguard is not so bad. They are good.namajones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 9:40 am I read a lot of posts these days from people who are abandoning Vanguard and moving their funds elsewhere. Is it the general consensus that Vanguard is worth leaving? I ask because I have a dormant, 0 balance account there, but I'm considering moving some funds in simply to buy a Vanguard mutual fund without having to pay a commission through a brokerage.
I do remember when I used that Vanguard account years ago I had issues with 1099s that were delivered inexplicably late in the tax filing season (I thought they were required to be available by Feb. 15) and also with funds taking up to 5 days to get into and out of the account, whereas with my brokerage they show up the very next day. Are these the kinds of issues that people are still having problems with?
Thanks.
We have had all of our accounts (my rollover IRA, 2 Roth IRAs and our joint taxable account) at Vanguard for 16 years, use only Vanguard funds, and have never had any kind of problem. In my experience their customer service has always been prompt, professional and courteous. I like their website and app.
Once the investor has set up a Bogleheadish portfolio, it requires almost no management by the investor or customer service by the fund firm or brokerage.
In my opinion anecdotes about issues encountered can be informative but are not very helpful in seeing if there is a real problem, or not. Apparently all brokerages have experienced problems recently. According to J. D. Power "With more than 10 million new brokerage accounts opened in 2020 as mainstream investor interest skyrocketed during the pandemic, retail brokerage firms struggled to deliver a seamless customer experience."
In my opinion ratings by trusted sources, and surveys of investor satisfaction, should be more informative than anecdotes.
Vanguard is one of only five firms rated "high" by Morningstar. Morningstar (1/28/2020), "The Best Fund Companies and Their Ratings", link.
Vanguard ranks highest in investor satisfaction. J.D. Power (4/27/2021), PRESS RELEASE, "Online Brokerage Firms Strain under Weight of New Investor Surge, J.D. Power Finds", link.
J. D. Power wrote:Vanguard (736) ranks highest in self-directed investor satisfaction among investors seeking guidance.
T. Rowe Price (705) ranks second and Charles Schwab (702) ranks third.
Vanguard (736) ranks highest in self-directed investor satisfaction among do-it-yourself investors. Charles Schwab (727) ranks second and T. Rowe Price (721) ranks third.
The U.S. Self-Directed Investor Satisfaction Study, which was redesigned for 2021, measures self-directed investors’ satisfaction with their investment firm based on performance in seven factors (in order of importance): trust; digital channels; the ability to manage wealth how and when I want; products and services; value for fees; people; and problem resolution.
The 2021 study is based on responses from 4,895 investors who make all their investment decisions without the counsel of a full-service dedicated financial advisor. The study was fielded from December 2020 through February 2021.
Because you want to use regular Vanguard mutual funds for the convenience, rather than exchange traded funds (ETFs), then its best to have your accounts at Vanguard and avoid unnecessary fees.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Thu Oct 14, 2021 5:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
The issues you've seen here are indeed real. But they aren't show-stoppers. And they may improve in the future.
I've been with Vanguard for 35 years and am still there. I am comfortable with them and don't plan to move.
But, for new investors, I would recommend also looking at Schwab and Fidelity.
I've been with Vanguard for 35 years and am still there. I am comfortable with them and don't plan to move.
But, for new investors, I would recommend also looking at Schwab and Fidelity.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
My biggest pet peeve is I have to authenticate EVERY TIME I log in. I check the remember me every time and I always go on either on my phone or laptop, nothing else. But yet, still need to authenticate every dang time.
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26297
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I don't have to authenticate every time either on the website or app, I use a tablet, desktop, and phone
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
-
- Posts: 3574
- Joined: Fri Jul 19, 2013 2:45 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab are all OK. I like some of the Vanguard specific funds and I find Vanguard's site the easiest to use and find info. I can manage with any of them. I don't need to consolidate but if I did, the Fidelity HSA would be the only reason for moving everything to Fidelity.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Let us know if you find one;)BigPrince wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 4:41 pmNo other company offers a total world fund?namajones wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 1:31 pmThat was my thinking, as well.Vulcan wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 10:53 am Vanguard is the only place where I can buy VTWAX commission-free.
Since there are no VTWAX equivalents from other fund families, and I have no interest in dealing with ETFs (VT) or approximating Total World via slicing-and-dicing, even if I wanted to leave, there'd be nowhere to go.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
In 34 years, I've never had a problem.
Time is what we want most, but what we use worst. William Penn
-
- Posts: 161
- Joined: Mon Aug 03, 2020 2:25 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
the consensus seems to be, "they are fine as long as you don't ask them to do anything even remotely complicated". My answer to that is, why are you setting the bar so low? Shouldn't you expect your broker to be able to handle routine (or even non-routine!) transactions competently and in a timely fashion. There is absolutely no reason to accept that when there are multiple other firms that can do everything Vanguard does and more, in a expeditious fashion. Schwab, Fidelity, etc. have all superseded Vanguard at this point.
-
- Posts: 15288
- Joined: Fri Apr 10, 2015 12:29 am
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
No other retail fund company can match the suite of low cost fixed income products available at Vanguard.
No other fund company can match the tax efficiency of Vanguard stock index mutual funds.
No other fund company can match the tax efficiency of Vanguard stock index mutual funds.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
See above re: VTWAXWe're wolves wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:01 pm the consensus seems to be, "they are fine as long as you don't ask them to do anything even remotely complicated". My answer to that is, why are you setting the bar so low? Shouldn't you expect your broker to be able to handle routine (or even non-routine!) transactions competently and in a timely fashion. There is absolutely no reason to accept that when there are multiple other firms that can do everything Vanguard does and more, in a expeditious fashion. Schwab, Fidelity, etc. have all superseded Vanguard at this point.
If you torture the data long enough, it will confess to anything. ~Ronald Coase
- Cheez-It Guy
- Posts: 4004
- Joined: Sun Mar 03, 2019 3:20 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
This has to do with your account, browser, security, or app settings, not with Vanguard.
-
- Posts: 8370
- Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:43 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
When I put together my portfolio in 2007 I decided to mainly use etfs which made vanguard irrelevant because I could hold those anywhere and move them to get the best deal like thousands in transfer bonuses.
-
- Posts: 730
- Joined: Tue Feb 19, 2019 10:09 am
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Set up our account just this year to purchase one mutual fund (VCITX) after Schwab told us they had to charge a $50 fee for every purchase.
There were long wait times and some small difficulties, but I was able to get it done over about three weeks, setting up an account for our Living Trust.
As far as I'm concerned the UI of the website could use a refresh, but the product we are purchasing, VCITX, is worth being patient with the web interface as the fees are the lowest available by a wide margin while the fund is top quality.
There were long wait times and some small difficulties, but I was able to get it done over about three weeks, setting up an account for our Living Trust.
As far as I'm concerned the UI of the website could use a refresh, but the product we are purchasing, VCITX, is worth being patient with the web interface as the fees are the lowest available by a wide margin while the fund is top quality.
- nisiprius
- Advisory Board
- Posts: 52105
- Joined: Thu Jul 26, 2007 9:33 am
- Location: The terrestrial, globular, planetary hunk of matter, flattened at the poles, is my abode.--O. Henry
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
For my purposes, so far Vanguard has been fine. I had to call them twice in the last couple of years, and both time the phone was answered in an acceptable amount of time (didn't time it, but much less than 5 minutes), and the person I talked to understood the issue and knew what to do. (RMD issues).
I think Vanguard is fine.
Some things that are happening suggest a chaotic situation inside Vanguard.* That bothers me. I no longer feel as confident as I used to feel that Vanguard will continue to be fine. But for now, no problems. I'm certainly not going to jump ship until something actually affects me.
And jump where? I worry that some of the things that affect Vanguard just reflect overall turmoil in the investment industry. Competition from fintechs whose stewardship philosophy for clients' money is "move fast and break things." Whatever is roiling Vanguard may be roiling Fidelity and Schwab, too.
*For example, this Philadelphia Inquirer story. Don't want to take the responsibility for trying to paraphrase or summarize it.
I think Vanguard is fine.
Some things that are happening suggest a chaotic situation inside Vanguard.* That bothers me. I no longer feel as confident as I used to feel that Vanguard will continue to be fine. But for now, no problems. I'm certainly not going to jump ship until something actually affects me.
And jump where? I worry that some of the things that affect Vanguard just reflect overall turmoil in the investment industry. Competition from fintechs whose stewardship philosophy for clients' money is "move fast and break things." Whatever is roiling Vanguard may be roiling Fidelity and Schwab, too.
*For example, this Philadelphia Inquirer story. Don't want to take the responsibility for trying to paraphrase or summarize it.
Last edited by nisiprius on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure nineteen nineteen and six, result happiness; Annual income twenty pounds, annual expenditure twenty pounds ought and six, result misery.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
nisiprius wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm \
I also worry that some of the things that affect Vanguard are going to be widespread and reflect turmoil in the investment industry. I am worried about fintechs whose philosophy for being stewards of clients' money is "move fast and break things." So whatever is roiling Vanguard may be roiling Fidelity and Schwab, too.
yes….this is very possible.
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26297
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
For anecdotes about Fidelity see: Too Rated Firms, "Fidelity Investments Customer Reviews [2021]" , link.bondsr4me wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:41 pmyes….this is very possible.nisiprius wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:35 pm I also worry that some of the things that affect Vanguard are going to be widespread and reflect turmoil in the investment industry. I am worried about fintechs whose philosophy for being stewards of clients' money is "move fast and break things." So whatever is roiling Vanguard may be roiling Fidelity and Schwab, too.
Last edited by ruralavalon on Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
- Doom&Gloom
- Posts: 5398
- Joined: Thu May 08, 2014 3:36 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
I'm pretty low maintenance, but Vanguard has been fine for me. Three accounts (including the Roth I opened for DS that he is barely aware of). For full disclosure I also have accounts at Schwab & Fidelity and those have been fine as well. I have twice as much in VG as in Schwab & Fidelity combined FWIW.
As I said: low maintenance. YMMV
As I said: low maintenance. YMMV
Last edited by Doom&Gloom on Thu Oct 14, 2021 7:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
With about $7.2 trillion in global assets under management, as of January 31, 2021, a not inconsiderable number of investors are apparently content to remain with Vanguard.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
For some brokerage competition entertainment one can follow r/fidelityinvestments on Reddit.
Some of the service complaints are from Game Stop traders who I expect transitioned from Robinhood to Fidelity and now are trying to direct hold their shares at Computershare so they are difficult to sell. Fidelity seems to be very patient with these folks.
Some of the service complaints are from Game Stop traders who I expect transitioned from Robinhood to Fidelity and now are trying to direct hold their shares at Computershare so they are difficult to sell. Fidelity seems to be very patient with these folks.
-
- Posts: 9446
- Joined: Sun Oct 08, 2017 7:16 pm
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
For anecdotes about Vanguard see: Top Rated Firms, "Vanguard Customer Complaints and Reviews."ruralavalon wrote: ↑Thu Oct 14, 2021 6:46 pm For anecdotes about Fidelity see: Too Rated Firms, "Fidelity Investments Customer Reviews [2021]" , link.
https://topratedfirms.com/brokers/custo ... eview.aspx
Vanguard's reviews are just as bad as Fidelity's on this website. The website is nothing but a place where malcontents bash companies.
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
They're alright. But since so many of us primarily own ETFs these days, it's easy to own Vanguard funds at better brokerages without paying any fees.
- bertilak
- Posts: 10711
- Joined: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:23 pm
- Location: East of the Pecos, West of the Mississippi
Re: Is Vanguard so bad?
Instead of quotung and counter-quoting anecdotal evidence about "better brokerages," perhaps we should have a reliable firm do a study. Oh, wait! Already done, by J.D.Power: viewtopic.php?p=6274906#p6274906
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet