Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

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Katietsu
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Katietsu »

Since you have already committed to moving the funds, your wife’s approach of a conversation with the advisor is not in the best interest of either you or the advisor.

Ask your wife to consider this: The advisor will be obligated to try to talk you out of the move and will have to spend time and energy on the discussion. If the end result is clearly going to be the loss of your family as clients, why would the advisor want to go through this?

Send an email, leave a voicemail after hours, write a letter. Thank him for his service and explain that you feel comfortable now managing it on your own. Your wife’s concerns are addressed and no one spends time with a conversation that is not particularly pleasant or productive for any one.
pkcrafter
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by pkcrafter »

EJ fees, fees, fees....

EJ has recently redone information on fees, making them harder to find and pin down.


https://www.edwardjones.com/disclosures ... index.html

https://thecollegeinvestor.com/35050/ed ... es-review/



Paul
Last edited by pkcrafter on Tue Sep 21, 2021 12:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
When times are good, investors tend to forget about risk and focus on opportunity. When times are bad, investors tend to forget about opportunity and focus on risk.
TurtleBeatsHare
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by TurtleBeatsHare »

Carguy85 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 5:06 am
exodusNH wrote: Mon Sep 20, 2021 10:33 pm
The S&P 500 has returned about 10.7% since 2006. At 1.35% plus the ERs, you've given them about 10% of your earnings every year.

You owe them nothing more. Download your cost basis info, initiate the transfer at the new brokerage, then send them the Dear Edward letter, letting them know the AUM and complicated portfolio were the reasons for leaving.

You are likely being far too kind... I’d bet their cut of actual earnings has been far higher. Probably much closer to the guess above by JBTX. At any rate, you are likely too nice to call (I know I sure am) without at least having the wheels in motion. The advisor just like any other high pressure sales person WILL use this to their advantage. Good luck
+1111111111111

Not only do they put you in high cost funds, with loads and 12(b)1 kickbacks to line their pockets and high AUM fees (like American Funds), they oftentimes then charge their clients and AUM for providing this treacherous advice. It oftentimes is half of your return, especially for older clients who have to be more conservative and have lower returns as well. They then go to great efforts to make it difficult for you to understand their fee structure, and don’t compute or disclose the total or compound effect of all these cumulative fees. They certainly never prepare projections saying that you’ll earn X with a nearly identical index fund, but because of our “advice” nearly half of that will be lost in fees or tax drag. And they prefer load funds because then you feel stuck because of the sunk cost psychological fallacy that nearly all humans suffer from.

If a doctor put substandard parts into your knee during surgery and you found out that he was receiving kickbacks from the parts company, not only would be be liable for prosecution under various anti-kickback statutes but you’d sue him and win. If your lawyer advised you to not to make a winning legal argument that would reduce your damages in a case because the plaintiff’s lawyer paid him a kickback, you sue him for malpractice and he’d be disbarred. Their model would be unlawful or criminal in nearly every other context in which consumers rely upon experts to navigate a complex field. It’s disgusting and only different from Maddoff in the degree to which they steal from their clients.
Da5id
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Da5id »

Katietsu wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 11:15 am Since you have already committed to moving the funds, your wife’s approach of a conversation with the advisor is not in the best interest of either you or the advisor.

Ask your wife to consider this: The advisor will be obligated to try to talk you out of the move and will have to spend time and energy on the discussion. If the end result is clearly going to be the loss of your family as clients, why would the advisor want to go through this?

Send an email, leave a voicemail after hours, write a letter. Thank him for his service and explain that you feel comfortable now managing it on your own. Your wife’s concerns are addressed and no one spends time with a conversation that is not particularly pleasant or productive for any one.
If you give reasons like fees and portfolio complexity you are inviting an argument. As a professional salesperson your advisor is probably good at this particular argument, it is territory they have covered before. They will be skilled at stoking your doubts and fears about managing on your own. And at making you feel bad about abandoning them after all they've done for you. Perhaps you will hear them sobbing softly in the background as they consider the lost commissions and fees. Before you know it you will be changing your mind and apologizing for even thinking of leaving.

It is a business relationship. You should be polite and to the point. No need to be unkind or confrontational. The above strategy, sending them a letter or leaving a voicemail after starting the transfer, seems great to me.
radiowave
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by radiowave »

frenchpress27 wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:34 am Wow thanks for all the replies. I definitely plan to have my ducks in a row. This would include opening all corresponding accounts at the new brokerage. Leaning towards Schwab. I would then begin downloading everything historical I can from my account logon from Jones' website. At that point I'll get a snapshot of our portfolios and see what can be ported over in-kind to Schwab. I assume I'll need to call them to find out what they'll accept. If they accept everything, I guess it's pretty easy, otherwise I'll probably just instruct Jones to liquidate the entire portfolio. I don't really see the point in only liquidating the part that won't transfer.

I also should say, my wife and I are united on the decision to leave Jones', it's just the manner in which we do that we were debating about.

As far as having her call. Well I suppose that could work but I feel like that would be a cop-out.

Thanks for all the help!
OP, consider selecting a Schwab advisor, is there a local office you can work directly with a specific person for the transfer? That person can advise whether liquidation of funds vs. direct fund transfer in kind is the best strategy. Schwab does not charge for selling a fund that comes over to them. Are you going to set up a DYI account or use the FA at Schwab?

On a personal note, my dad was at EJ and when he passed away several years ago, I inherited a portion of his IRA and a small taxable account (my sisters and brothers had the other portions). The Edward Jones FA was my nephew-in-law so it was a bit awkward. I wound up moving everything to Fidelity working with the Fido advisor and set everything up DIY. Moved the funds across the Fidelity and sold them at no cost. Never spoke directly with my nephew-in-law about leaving at later family gatherings. My brothers moved their portion out of EJ, my sisters stayed (my nephew was married to one of my sister's daughters). I've spoken to my sisters just a small number of time about the costs they were paying at EJ, but they stayed mostly based on trust.
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Vanguard User
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Vanguard User »

I was with EJ for about 15 years. I left them and did in-kind to Fidelity. Fidelity credited me all closing EJ fees.

I had Roth IRA.

EJ starting load is 5.75% and 0.50% ER average American Funds.
FoolStreet
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by FoolStreet »

robphoto wrote: Tue Sep 21, 2021 7:40 am Sounds good. Write down the simple steps and cross them off in order.

1 Download all available EJ account info

2 Set up new Schwab accounts

3 Formally initiate transfer with Schwab for all accounts

4 Call the EJ guy the next day, thank him for his help, tell him you're going in a different direction

You may want to set a 3-minute timer to keep the conversation brief and not let him run on
Yes. Do step 3 before step 4. But certainly do step 4. Why not, it's polite, but saying anything other than robphoto suggests will only lead to drama for both parties.

You are doing great!
Carguy85
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Carguy85 »

My brother has an old friend from high school manage his money...nice guy and seems to be upstanding/honest but he pays him more than $10k a year for being a nice guy with a phone call a few times a year... My bro thinks I’m just messing around pretending I’m a Wallstreet guy with my investments....pretty laughable given I essentially have a very Bogle and very boring 2 fund portfoilio :mrgreen:
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frenchpress27
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by frenchpress27 »

Thanks all.

Accounts are being created now at Schwab. Spoke yesterday on the phone with them and they were helpful and answered all my questions, and I even have someone assigned to me as a point of contact. I'll submit the requests via Schwab to have the Jones assets pulled over then send my "thanks but goodbye" message to them. If anything else comes up, I'll post it here.
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frenchpress27
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by frenchpress27 »

Just an update here, and a couple questions as I've finally gotten around to acting on this.

I was able to request in-kind transfers to Schwab for the IRA accounts which mostly went fine. Most the funds came right over. However, the Jones' IRAs had a fund which couldn't be ported over, so that looks to have been liquidated, and now I have a few grand cash in the Jones' IRAs. At this point is it as simple as just "re-requesting" a transfer from Schwab now that everything is in cash?

I have a bit of an issue with my 529. I am ready to do a rollover of the Jones' held 529 into a 529 I have opened with another provider. 529 rollovers seem a bit antiquated compared to how we transferred the IRAs. There is a form to fill out, sign, mail, etc. Seems like this process is stuck in 1999. Anyhow, I am having trouble trying to figure out where to mail the rollover request for this Jones 529. It's a "MFS 529 savings plan", that I purchased through my advisor at Jones. So I'm confused as to whether the current plan manager is Edward Jones, or MFS. I have contacted MFS but they weren't super helpful. I have also contacted my Jones' advisor and waiting for their response. If anyone knows how to find the proper address or has any tips for me on this, let me know.

Lastly, now that I have everything over to Schwab, is it as simple as just trading/exchanging every fund, one by one, into something, say a 2045 index fund? I didn't see an option to trade all holdings in the entire IRA account, it looks like I have to do it fund by fund (have a dozen or so)?

Thank you!!!
Luckywon
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Luckywon »

frenchpress27 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:14 pm However, the Jones' IRAs had a fund which couldn't be ported over, so that looks to have been liquidated, and now I have a few grand cash in the Jones' IRAs.
Glad you have moved forward.

What the the costs to buy and sell this fund? There's a lot of discussion about trading fees at EJ and that would be a helpful data point.
RetiredAL
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by RetiredAL »

frenchpress27 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:14 pm Just an update here, and a couple questions as I've finally gotten around to acting on this.

I was able to request in-kind transfers to Schwab for the IRA accounts which mostly went fine. Most the funds came right over. However, the Jones' IRAs had a fund which couldn't be ported over, so that looks to have been liquidated, and now I have a few grand cash in the Jones' IRAs. At this point is it as simple as just "re-requesting" a transfer from Schwab now that everything is in cash?
How long has it been since that fund was liquidated? It is not unusual for residual $ to sit in the old account for a few days. The processes that move the residuals seem to only be run periodically.
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cchrissyy
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by cchrissyy »

frenchpress27 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:14 pm However, the Jones' IRAs had a fund which couldn't be ported over, so that looks to have been liquidated, and now I have a few grand cash in the Jones' IRAs. At this point is it as simple as just "re-requesting" a transfer from Schwab now that everything is in cash?
yeah i would make a new request from schwab to pull the entire contents of the account over, and this time it will succeed since it's all cash.
frenchpress27 wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 12:14 pm Lastly, now that I have everything over to Schwab, is it as simple as just trading/exchanging every fund, one by one, into something, say a 2045 index fund? I didn't see an option to trade all holdings in the entire IRA account, it looks like I have to do it fund by fund (have a dozen or so)?
yes just this first time while you are cleaning it up, what you would do is sell the 12 positions then use the proceeds to buy the 1 you want. in future years you simply contribute money then make the purchase.
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Jack FFR1846
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by Jack FFR1846 »

Let's do some numbers. I don't know your total number (maybe I just didn't see it), so I'll use my own portfolio, which I manage.

My annual total fee: $584

If I were to use EJ as you've been, it would have been $72,000.

Now, I'm a big car guy. What could I buy EVERY SINGLE YEAR for $72,000-$584? Well, that would be maybe a well equipped Porsche 718 Cayman or maybe a base Cayman S. But just think....second year, I could easily trade that and add the extra 71 and a half thousand dollars and get myself a Cayman GT4.

Think of it this way. Every single school day, your kid has walked to school. The EJ rep stops your kid and takes his lunch money. Then he walks by your house and waves and smiles. That's sort of what's gone on. Exactly what I would do is transfer everything, block the EJ tel number and block the EJ email. If I happened to see the EJ person, I would look straight into their eyes and say quite clearly "thief".
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TomatoTomahto
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Re: Another Edward Jones question (leaving ethically)

Post by TomatoTomahto »

True story:

My girlfriend and I were held up at gun point 55 years ago. I had the gun in my belly. We of course gave them everything, although my GF comically was reluctant to give up her leather jacket, which the gunman and I were watching slack jawed, until finally the gunman told his accomplice “let the lady have her jacket!”

Anyway, between having been raised to be polite and relief at being alive, when the pair left I, without thinking, said “Thank You.”

That’s how I feel about “ethically leaving EJ.”
I get the FI part but not the RE part of FIRE.
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