Advice on complicated retirement plan

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Topic Author
FinnLover
Posts: 4
Joined: Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:31 pm

Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by FinnLover »

This is my first post.
Me 42, teacher 115K salary, plan to retire at 60 (if I do everything right)
Husband 44, Software Engineer 225K salary, 20% bonuses and RSU's that usually equal his base salary (he made 550K last year) plans to retire at 54
We have two kids in college, are using 529 plans that are covering all their expenses.
Investments:
457-me: 67K, investing max each year, plan to use catch up at age 50
403(b) me: 285K, investing max each year, plan to use catch up at age 50
401(k) husband: 279K, investing max each year and employer match of 50% up to 7% of his salary a year, plan to use catch up at age 50
Mega back door: 15K (investing bonuses each year or max, currently ~28k this year
Roth IRAs (always backdoor): 221k investing max each year, plan to use catch up at age 50
taxable Vanguard VTWAX: 45k (this account is earmarked to pay our mortgage off when we retire)
taxable Schwab SWTXX: 65k
Emergency Fund: 50K Vanguard VMMXX (this is 6 months of bare bones expenses)
Pension: I will receive 86% of my current salary if I retire at 60. The formula is 2.4% x # of years of service if you want to convince me to retire later!

Liabilities:
Mortgage: 870K remaining, just refinanced, 30 years, 2.875%, monthly payment is $3,600, property tax 16,500 with 2% increase a year, earthquake and home insurances ~$3,500 would like to have enough money saved to pay our mortgage/insurance/tax completely from investments when my husband retires.
car payment #1: 20k @ 2.99% (we took a payment since we are investing at much higher return)
car payment #2: 22K @ 2.00%

Misc:
Health insurance: will be 1k (in today's dollars) when husband retires, when we both retire, we will need to pay for private insurance until we qualify for Medicare.
We live in California and do not plan on ever leaving the state.
Until 2.5 years ago, husband only made about 150K a year and he moved here from Finland at 34. He works in big tech now, so don't want to rely too heavily on RSU's.
We like to take vacations and we want to do expensive renovations on our house (bathrooms, flooring and redo backyard including repaving pool). We'd like to find a balance where we can do these and save for early retirement, we are willing to wait on some of these home reno's, but pool repaving needs to be done at least by the end of next year (it's time).
Last year, our effective tax was 24% federal

So here are my two questions:
1. Are we on track to meet our retirement goals of early retirement (especially for my husband), assuming we can cover all our living expenses with my salary until age 60 except the mortgage/property tax/home insurance expense
2. Are there any recommendations to lower our tax liabilities, or are we doing everything we can already.

Thanks!
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luminous
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by luminous »

I think we need more information. What is your non-housing spending per year? How much will your planned home improvements cost? What is your asset allocation? Have you priced out medical insurance for the five years you will need to pay for it, and have you thought about medigap insurance? These answers will help us help you.
67/12/21 US stock/international stock/bonds. Bonds capped at 10x annual spending. Semi-retired as of 2022.
dbr
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by dbr »

At your age with thoughts of early retirement it is not too soon to look at retirement planners like FireCalc, and there are others. This will give you a feel for the data to consider and the nature of the answer. FireCalc was written over at the early retirement forum as an approach to analyzing this question. I am not aware of a simpler way to answer your question than to look at models of that sort.
delamer
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by delamer »

You can easily cover your housing costs from your salary and then pension. (What happens to the pension if you predecease your husband?)

So the bottom line is whether your savings once your husband stops working (plus any future Social Security) is adequate to cover the rest of your expenses. Plus the house will be paid off in your early 70’s.

The question then is what are the rest of your expenses?

And how much will you need to spend on the renovations? Expensive for some people is $100,000, for others it’s $400,000.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Watty
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Watty »

FinnLover wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 am We live in California and do not plan on ever leaving the state.
Even if you want to stay in the same city something to keep in mind is that you may be able to move to a much less expensive , and possibly nicer, house when you retire. In some areas housing can be dramatically less expensive if you move 30 minutes farther out. When you are retired you will not need to worry about the commute, school quality, and may need a smaller house then.
FinnLover wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 am car payment #1: 20k @ 2.99% (we took a payment since we are investing at much higher return)
car payment #2: 22K @ 2.00%
You are in your 40s and have kids in college so you are officially in middle age by pretty much any definition. I may have missed it but I did not see your asset allocation which should have a significant percentage of bonds that might be paying a bit above 1%.

It is time to consider being less aggressive. If you have that $42K in car loans and somehow manage to squeeze out an extra 1% AFTER taxes that would be all of $420 which is a rounding error in your situation and will not make any difference in your retirement plans.

I would pay those off quickly and then start saving your freed up "car payment" each month so you will have the money to pay cash for your next car when you need a replacement.
FinnLover wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 am 1. Are we on track to meet our retirement goals of early retirement (especially for my husband), assuming we can cover all our living expenses with my salary until age 60 except the mortgage/property tax/home insurance expense
I did not really crunch the numbers but your mortgage will not be paid off until you are in your 70s.

You husband has been making a great income for 2 years but it is unlikely that will continue for another 15 years and many software engineers have a hard time maintaining their income as they get older and by the time he is in his 50 he may be doing good to make $150K like he was three years ago.

It looks like your net worth is something like $700K now, excluding your home equity.

You are talking about doing expensive renovations(how much was that?) and you did not say how you were planning on paying for that.

If you keep earning over $650K a year things could work out fine but a lot can happen in the next 20 years. At least to me you seem to be in a bit of a precarious situation where things might not work out nearly as well as you are hoping.
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Wiggums
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Wiggums »

What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
LeftCoastIV
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by LeftCoastIV »

Retiring early with ~$800k left on your mortgage sounds risky and stressful. If my math is right, your mortgage is larger than your investments.

When your husband retires, what will your total annual spending be (taking into account all taxes, mortgage, etc.) and what do you expect your nest egg to be at that point (taking into account expensive planned remodel)? Once you have those estimates, how much of spending will be covered by your after-tax income, and thus how much has to come from investments?
JayDee37
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Location: California

Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by JayDee37 »

A couple of observations:

1. As others have mentioned, you should include information about asset allocation, your current annual spending, and planned spending in retirement to get better feedback.

2. You will be receiving a substantial pension (sounds like a minimum of ~98,000/per year in today's dollars even if you do not get another raise between now and your planned retirement at 60). Will your spouse be receiving SS? If so, you should figure out how much he is likely to be entitled to at the various claiming ages. The pension and any SS will provide you with a pretty substantial floor and may entirely cover your basic necessities in retirement. California teachers' pensions also come with COLAs, correct? You may not feel the need for a high percentage of bonds/fixed income in your asset allocation if your pension/SS provides a safe, COLA'd, lifetime income floor that will be adequate to meet your needs.

3. I agree with those who have reservations about the size of the mortgage you will be carrying into retirement under your current scenario. After looking more into the pension and SS, if you feel that those income streams will be enough to cover your necessary spending in retirement you may want to consider redirecting some of your savings dollars into paying down the mortgage more aggressively.

Good luck!
Tell me, what is it you plan to do with your one wild and precious life? | ~Mary Oliver
Topic Author
FinnLover
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by FinnLover »

Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
Financologist
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Financologist »

If it's me, I'm waiting a few more years to see if husband's earnings hold up (or increase). If they do, then savings should build quickly. Considering reno plans, spend estimates including property tax which alone will cost 800k+ over a lifetime, the general absurdity of Calif. living costs and the various uncertainties inherent to your circumstances (will you work until 60, will Calif. be able to continue offering pension credits, will the distortion in sw engineer compensation continue etc...), I'd play it conservatively until the house is paid off and your investments reach 2.5m.

Good luck
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simas
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by simas »

FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:03 am
Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
... not sure how to best say it
- 150k in expenses is EXTREMELY high estimate (many multiples of what retired persons spend 'for real' and multiple of nationwide household income). How real is that estimate ?
- to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
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Wiggums
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Wiggums »

FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:03 am
Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
I retired at 56. You should crunch your numbers in firecalc and maybe one other tool. This will help you understand the portfolio size needed to support an annual spend of $150k. The tool will take any into consideration any sources of income such as pensions and social security.
"I started with nothing and I still have most of it left."
ShowMeTheER
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by ShowMeTheER »

You are in good shape. You can basically live on your salary alone, plus pension and soc sec, until death. Your husbands income is savings/spending/fun money.

Enjoy it and don’t stress.
delamer
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by delamer »

simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 am
FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:03 am
Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
... not sure how to best say it
- 150k in expenses is EXTREMELY high estimate (many multiples of what retired persons spend 'for real' and multiple of nationwide household income). How real is that estimate ?
- to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
What difference does it make to the OP’s planning that you think $150K is extremely high for expenses or what the national average for retirees’ expenses is?

They made almost $700K last year and have a mortgage payment of $43,000 (just PI) annually that will continue retirement. Does that bear any resemblance to your income/expenses or that of the average couple?

Not to mention that with income taxes (on $150K), the mortgage payment, and property taxes, their remaining money to cover the rest of expenses is going to be roughly $70,000.

Plus you are repeating the same question as posed in the initial post by the OP: How can they finance retirement; are they on track?
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Marmot
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Marmot »

LeftCoastIV wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:30 pm Retiring early with ~$800k left on your mortgage sounds risky and stressful. If my math is right, your mortgage is larger than your investments.

When your husband retires, what will your total annual spending be (taking into account all taxes, mortgage, etc.) and what do you expect your nest egg to be at that point (taking into account expensive planned remodel)? Once you have those estimates, how much of spending will be covered by your after-tax income, and thus how much has to come from investments?
I agree, I don't like that number. Eliminate the mortgage.
Marty....don't go to the year 2020....Dr. Emmett Brown
simas
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by simas »

delamer wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:34 am
simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 am
FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:03 am
Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
... not sure how to best say it
- 150k in expenses is EXTREMELY high estimate (many multiples of what retired persons spend 'for real' and multiple of nationwide household income). How real is that estimate ?
- to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
What difference does it make to the OP’s planning that you think $150K is extremely high for expenses or what the national average for retirees’ expenses is?

They made almost $700K last year and have a mortgage payment of $43,000 (just PI) annually that will continue retirement. Does that bear any resemblance to your income/expenses or that of the average couple?

Not to mention that with income taxes (on $150K), the mortgage payment, and property taxes, their remaining money to cover the rest of expenses is going to be roughly $70,000.

Plus you are repeating the same question as posed in the initial post by the OP: How can they finance retirement; are they on track?
it is possible there is a lot of space in that 150K number or that number is not very precise. getting it more precise may help OP with planning. it is insane level of spending compare for median/average retiree, and typically people on BH greatly overestimate their real retirement expenses..

with level of assets they have I am not sure they can not fund that level of spending with SWR I would be comfortable with.

also, are you another account for the OP that you are responding on their behalf? my questions were to the original poster, are you him/her?
delamer
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by delamer »

simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 12:08 pm
delamer wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 9:34 am
simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 am
FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 2:03 am
Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:45 am What do you estimate your annual expenses to be in retirement?
Sorry, vital info I left out: 150k in today's dollars with the housing costs.
... not sure how to best say it
- 150k in expenses is EXTREMELY high estimate (many multiples of what retired persons spend 'for real' and multiple of nationwide household income). How real is that estimate ?
- to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
What difference does it make to the OP’s planning that you think $150K is extremely high for expenses or what the national average for retirees’ expenses is?

They made almost $700K last year and have a mortgage payment of $43,000 (just PI) annually that will continue retirement. Does that bear any resemblance to your income/expenses or that of the average couple?

Not to mention that with income taxes (on $150K), the mortgage payment, and property taxes, their remaining money to cover the rest of expenses is going to be roughly $70,000.

Plus you are repeating the same question as posed in the initial post by the OP: How can they finance retirement; are they on track?
it is possible there is a lot of space in that 150K number or that number is not very precise. getting it more precise may help OP with planning. it is insane level of spending compare for median/average retiree, and typically people on BH greatly overestimate their real retirement expenses..

with level of assets they have I am not sure they can not fund that level of spending with SWR I would be comfortable with.

also, are you another account for the OP that you are responding on their behalf? my questions were to the original poster, are you him/her?
1) What is your evidence that “typically people on BH greatly overestimate their real retirement expenses?”

2) This is a forum for registered users. There is no requirement that a poster only respond to questions directly specifically to them. Also, any comment that you make in response to a public post is likely to receive responses from someone else who is registered. If you want to discuss an issue with just one person, then you should use the Private Messages function.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
Topic Author
FinnLover
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by FinnLover »

luminous wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 am What is your non-housing spending per year?
About 70K but that includes 17K for our car payments.

luminous wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 am How much will your planned home improvements cost?
Backyard reno 100-150K
Bathrooms 80K
Kitchen 25K
Hardwood Flooring 30K
Landscaping 50K
We typically spend 12k a year on vacations

Note we only pay for these renos with RSU money and will only use the money if we are meeting our retirement goals first. Also, if we had to give them all up, the pool absolutely needs re-piping and paving, so I'm guesstimating 30K minimum if we were in a bind and didn't have the extra money.
luminous wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 am What is your asset allocation?
All our retirement accounts are in either target retirement or model them, 2045 for me, husbands is something similar.
luminous wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 8:32 amHave you priced out medical insurance for the five years you will need to pay for
Good point, I looked at Covered CA and it looks like it would be about $3K a month.


...A few points I'd like to clarify upon reading some responses:
FinnLover wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 am
Mortgage: 870K remaining, just refinanced, 30 years, 2.875%, monthly payment is $3,600, property tax 16,500 with 2% increase a year, earthquake and home insurances ~$3,500 would like to have enough money saved to pay our mortgage/insurance/tax completely from investments when my husband retires.
The taxable Vanguard VTWAX: 45k is our pay off the mortgage early account. I did some rough calcs and figured I'd need to put 33K a year in this account to have enough in ten years with the idea of drawing our monthly payment to continue paying the mortgage when my husband retires so we can continue to live off my salary. I plan to take this money from his RSU's (he's on track to make 250K in rsu this year). I will also use that fund for property tax, earthquake insurance and home owner's insurance. This may be stupid, which is why I'm here asking for advice. (Thanks in advance).

For those with more of a glass half empty view, we bought the house with a household salary of 250K and our mortgage was 4,298. If we were to go back down to those levels of income, we could still comfortably pay an extra $650 a month to the pay off mortgage fund.
FinnLover wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 12:20 am Health insurance: will be 1k (in today's dollars) when husband retires, when we both retire, we will need to pay for private insurance until we qualify for Medicare.
Actually, it's more like 10k, I was thinking monthly (remember, teachers only get paid 10 months out of the year).
JayDee37 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:58 pm Will your spouse be receiving SS?
Yes, likely the max and he'll probably delay until the latest age.
JayDee37 wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 1:58 pm California teachers' pensions also come with COLAs, correct?
Yes, 2%
Watty wrote: Sat Jul 31, 2021 11:20 am I may have missed it but I did not see your asset allocation which should have a significant percentage of bonds that might be paying a bit above 1%.
We like to look at the pension as a "bond".
simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 am - to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
Since I'll have a pension of say 100K, that means we need to fund 50K. He will offset about half once he can collect SS.


...A few more things
1. I cannot collect a dime of SS if my husband dies before I do.
2. My husband can collect various amounts of my pension (100%, 75% and 50% options), with a reduced pension amount for me, if he dies first, the pension reverts to the full amount about 100k a year in today's dollars if I retire early.
3. Husband will only retire in ten years if he continues to work on big tech because it's stressful and he thinks he'll burn out, if he goes back to regular tech jobs (150k or so a year), he'll probably work until usual retirement age, and I'm being optimistic that he won't have any problems being employed.
4. We both have term life insurance. His. 1M is through work, mine, 750K is not and is good until I'm 62. Husband keeps saying statistically I'll live longer, but I had uterine cancer at 40, (stage 1 and everything is fine now).
5. It seems like most of you recommend paying the mortgage off early, rather than putting the extra payments in a taxable account with the potential to earn more interest, that feels like a missed opportunity, am I missing something here?

Lastly, thank you so much to all of you for taking the time to help us out, husband and I have been reading your responses and you've given us food for thought and we appreciate it.
Flashes1
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Flashes1 »

I forecast spending $200k/year in retirement so I understand where the OP is coming from! That includes taxes on my 401k, health insurance but also large HOA, property tax and country club & beach club dues, too. It's very expensive but this is America!

What a lot of folks are underestimating is the value of a COLA adjusted ~$100,000/annum pension. Unless I'm missing something that pretty much covers most of their annual expenses of $150k, right? I think they're in pretty solid shape.
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Watty
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by Watty »

FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:24 pm We like to look at the pension as a "bond".
There are lots and lots of threads about if you can consider the pension(or social security, or home equity) a bond or not. You can find them by using the search box that is in the top right corner of most of the web pages.

My take on it is that you can't and a major reason is because you would be in effect double counting the pension in your planning.

In made up numbers if you want to have $100K in retirement income and you will have a $30k pension then you will need to invest to have $70K in income. The problem is that;
1) You will be counting on the pension for that $30K in income.
2) You would want to invest with an appropriate asset allocation to have $70K in other investment income. If you count the pension as a bond then you have counted it twice.

There are other reasons too that you can't count a pension as a bond and you can read the old threads about that.

That is not to say that you cannot invest a bit more aggressively if you have a pension but that is because you will not be hurt as bad if your nest egg drops by 30% in a bad bear market.
simas
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by simas »

FinnLover wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 3:24 pm
simas wrote: Tue Aug 03, 2021 6:50 am - to fund 150k in expenses at 4% safe withdrawal rate you need 150 x 0.04 = $3.75M . what is your plan to get to that portfolio number (not net work) by your planned retirement age? if your pension would cover some of it , what is your shortfall that you need to fund by your target retirement age?
Since I'll have a pension of say 100K, that means we need to fund 50K. He will offset about half once he can collect SS.


...A few more things
1. I cannot collect a dime of SS if my husband dies before I do.
2. My husband can collect various amounts of my pension (100%, 75% and 50% options), with a reduced pension amount for me, if he dies first, the pension reverts to the full amount about 100k a year in today's dollars if I retire early.
3. Husband will only retire in ten years if he continues to work on big tech because it's stressful and he thinks he'll burn out, if he goes back to regular tech jobs (150k or so a year), he'll probably work until usual retirement age, and I'm being optimistic that he won't have any problems being employed.
4. We both have term life insurance. His. 1M is through work, mine, 750K is not and is good until I'm 62. Husband keeps saying statistically I'll live longer, but I had uterine cancer at 40, (stage 1 and everything is fine now).
5. It seems like most of you recommend paying the mortgage off early, rather than putting the extra payments in a taxable account with the potential to earn more interest, that feels like a missed opportunity, am I missing something here?

Lastly, thank you so much to all of you for taking the time to help us out, husband and I have been reading your responses and you've given us food for thought and we appreciate it.
thank you. So you have 63k annually in just housing expenses of which 20K are fixed (property taxes and insurance). the recommendation is to think of what the rest of your budget looks like where are you thinking you would be spending 85k annually in retirement? and then what does it look like after you paid off mortgage.

I mentioned already
- your expenses estimates may be high , however if you are actually tracking your budget and think that is the budget in retirement (important), then it is what it is
- you don't have that much liquid net worth for your income which is understood given spike in income is recent. save it if you can (vs vacation, expensive renovations, YOLO, etc) where reasonable

for your mortgage question - there are as many answers as there are people. my personal take is that I like my cash flow to be as free as possible and I dont like debt (also I am a first generation immigrant like your husband ) so I work to pay it off after I am done filling up various retirement accounts. No debt, no debt payments, easier cash flow => much more options (different job, part time job, no job, volunteering, etc).

i also can not imagine spending 150K on backyard so my advice may not be relevant to you :)
delamer
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Re: Advice on complicated retirement plan

Post by delamer »

Putting the extra mortgage payments into a fund and then paying off the mortgage entirely once there is enough in the fund is a solid plan.

You keep the liquidity until you can totally eliminate the debt.

Many people just feel more comfortable owning their home outright in retirement. They forego the opportunity for the potential extra investment earnings and opt for the security instead. Other people are less risk adverse and/or have a bigger financial cushion and so go for the potential earnings. Your pension is definitely a big cushion.

I’d have been fine with a mortgage in retirement, but my husband wasn’t. And given that our remaining mortgage was fairly small (under $100,000), we paid it off. But interest rates weren’t as low as today’s when we made that choice. And there’s no way I could talk my husband into a cash-out refinance now.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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