Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

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investorpeter
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Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by investorpeter »

I have a seemingly simple question, but have not been able to find an answer despite my research: Does anyone know of a way to set up automatic recurring sell orders of stocks or ETFs? With mutual funds, I know this would be easy to set up. But with ETFs and individual stocks, I have not found a way to make this work. Unfortunately, the majority of my portfolio is in individual stocks with large capital gains, so moving assets into mutual funds is not an option. I would like to be able to schedule automatic sells, about once a month of a given amount or shares, with the proceeds being deposited into a money market fund, which would then have automatic withdrawals into my bank checking account, from which the majority of my bills are paid. I wish to do this for 2 reasons: 1) convenience, and 2) to ensure essential utility and insurance bills are paid even if I should become incapacitated.

Has anyone been able to do this, or have ideas on how it could be set up (without using a personal advisor or roboadvisor)? I'm not looking for a robo-advisor. But a robo-broker. Maybe M1 finance offers something like this?

I suppose one issue would be choosing the specific lots to be sold, but that could be automated also, probably by choosing the lots with the smallest gains, or even using average cost basis. It just seems in this day and age of automated everything, this should be do-able, but from what I can tell it is not. Maybe, there isn't much demand for something like this. But to me this service would offer significant value in terms of convenience and financial security.
livesoft
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by livesoft »

Perhaps just schedule a recurring meeting with your brokerage account in the calendar app on your phone?
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Topic Author
investorpeter
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by investorpeter »

livesoft wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:54 pm Perhaps just schedule a recurring meeting with your brokerage account in the calendar app on your phone?
But if I'm incapacitated, I won't be able to check my calendar. :? The scenario I am worried about is falling into a coma, having my ACA health insurance premiums stop being paid from my bank account because funds have been depleted, losing coverage, and then waking up to a $5m dollar hospital bill. Unlikely, yes, but still within the realm of possibility. People lose health insurance all the time after becoming unemployed.

Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan" (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/r ... or-you.asp). They are commonly available for retirement plans and mutual funds, but not ETFs or stocks. Conversely, automatic investment plans are also widely available for mutual funds, ETFs and stocks.
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Wiggums
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by Wiggums »

You raise a question that I have thought about. For us, it means reducing the number of accounts and eliminating unwanted holdings. In your case, I don’t think you can automate the sale since the price is unknown and I don’t believe that you can sell at market price from the scheduler. Your wife could call the broker and request the sale.

Can you teach your wife to sell equities? I have my DW transferring money and selling equities so she is familiar with the process.

Hopefully there is a way to automating the sale.
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SaucedUp
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by SaucedUp »

investorpeter wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm
livesoft wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:54 pm Perhaps just schedule a recurring meeting with your brokerage account in the calendar app on your phone?
But if I'm incapacitated, I won't be able to check my calendar. :? The scenario I am worried about is falling into a coma, having my ACA health insurance premiums stop being paid from my bank account because funds have been depleted, losing coverage, and then waking up to a $5m dollar hospital bill. Unlikely, yes, but still within the realm of possibility. People lose health insurance all the time after becoming unemployed.

Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan" (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/r ... or-you.asp). They are commonly available for retirement plans and mutual funds, but not ETFs or stocks. Conversely, automatic investment plans are also widely available for mutual funds, ETFs and stocks.
Are you in bad health? This seems like such a far out scenario I don't know if actively planning for it is really worth the effort.

Seems like a whole lot of things would have to go perfectly wrong for this to even be a remote possibility
livesoft
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by livesoft »

investorpeter wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan ....
One could have a single mutual fund that was used for this purpose and the rest of the portfolio was ETFs. Maybe once a year manually move money from non-mutual fund assets into the mutual fund. One would still have to determine the Cost Basis Method, but FIFO which is a subset of Specific Identification could be one's default method. I think this could all be done at just about any brokerage including Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, et al.
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retired@50
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by retired@50 »

investorpeter wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm
Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan"

They are commonly available for retirement plans and mutual funds, but not ETFs or stocks.
So, you could switch some money into mutual funds, or you could teach your health care proxy (POA) how to trade in your account and how to pay your health insurance bill.

I presume you already have a health care directive, etc. If not, get one, then engage this person in the process.

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investorpeter
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by investorpeter »

Wiggums wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:08 pm You raise a question that I have thought about. For us, it means reducing the number of accounts and eliminating unwanted holdings. In your case, I don’t think you can automate the sale since the price is unknown and I don’t believe that you can sell at market price from the scheduler. Your wife could call the broker and request the sale.

Can you teach your wife to sell equities? I have my DW transferring money and selling equities so she is familiar with the process.

Hopefully there is a way to automating the sale.
Yes, that is another solution. But I still worry that my wife would forget to pay a bill or two amidst the chaos. The health insurance premium of course if the only one that could end up in bankruptcy. Having gone through this recently with a family member, it is surprisingly difficult to pay bills that are in someone else's name.
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by shess »

investorpeter wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:52 pm I have a seemingly simple question, but have not been able to find an answer despite my research: Does anyone know of a way to set up automatic recurring sell orders of stocks or ETFs? With mutual funds, I know this would be easy to set up. But with ETFs and individual stocks, I have not found a way to make this work.
Sounds like you maybe want a 10b5-1 type plan. Unfortunately, they do require some actor to do the actual evaluation of rules and trade execution, which is going to cost money. Personally, I'd probably just do periodic shifts into an appropriate mutual fund, and then have the mutual fund handle my monthly transactions.

[OK, that was false: Personally, I'd just periodically sell and put it into a HYSA or CD or something.]
Topic Author
investorpeter
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by investorpeter »

livesoft wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:19 pm
investorpeter wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan ....
One could have a single mutual fund that was used for this purpose and the rest of the portfolio was ETFs. Maybe once a year manually move money from non-mutual fund assets into the mutual fund. One would still have to determine the Cost Basis Method, but FIFO which is a subset of Specific Identification could be one's default method. I think this could all be done at just about any brokerage including Vanguard, Schwab, Fidelity, et al.
Hmm, I like this idea. Maybe a dedicated checking account and mutual fund just for health insurance premiums, and maybe a few select essential utility bills...
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Lee_WSP
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by Lee_WSP »

investorpeter wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 12:48 pm
livesoft wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 6:54 pm Perhaps just schedule a recurring meeting with your brokerage account in the calendar app on your phone?
But if I'm incapacitated, I won't be able to check my calendar. :? The scenario I am worried about is falling into a coma, having my ACA health insurance premiums stop being paid from my bank account because funds have been depleted, losing coverage, and then waking up to a $5m dollar hospital bill. Unlikely, yes, but still within the realm of possibility. People lose health insurance all the time after becoming unemployed.

Seems like what I am looking for is a "systematic withdrawal plan" (https://www.investopedia.com/articles/r ... or-you.asp). They are commonly available for retirement plans and mutual funds, but not ETFs or stocks. Conversely, automatic investment plans are also widely available for mutual funds, ETFs and stocks.
You’d have to be in a coma for a few months for the bill to first go past due, and then they’ll cancel the policy for non payment. Your state might even have a law or procedure related to non payment of bills solely due to incapacity. Otherwise, that is what a DPOA or living trust is for. It’s also what the 3 month cash buffer is for.
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Nate79
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Re: Automatic recurring stock/ETF sell orders?

Post by Nate79 »

I don't understand why you need to make this more difficult than required. Just hold a few months of cash in your checking account at least and have your Bill's setup for autopay.
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