Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

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sycamore
Posts: 6310
Joined: Tue May 08, 2018 12:06 pm

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by sycamore »

criticalmass wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 11:25 pm
JoMoney wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 8:25 am
TropikThunder wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 4:29 am
placeholder wrote: Tue Jul 27, 2021 1:04 am
Bama12 wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 11:53 pm The average household in American has about $5,000 in credit card debt. Research also show you spend 100% more when using a credit card instead of cash.
This is one of those things that people post but never back up because there is no research that shows that nor could it ever show that because you can't do proper studies on something like spending.
I wonder if Dave Ramsay says stuff like that? Which makes it even more likely to be made up.
Always Leave Home Without It: A Further Investigation of the Credit-Card Effect on Willingness to Pay
http://web.mit.edu/simester/Public/Pape ... vehome.pdf
The studies didn't include me. People like me and other Boglehead informed folks who use great care with personal finance seem underrepresented.
I'm glad other people are consuming and using credit. Consumers drive the economy (and VTSAX/VTI, etc.) and credit card use makes rewards programs possible that are lucrative for us.
Indeed. From the paper, section "3.2. Respondents and General Procedure" it says
The respondents were MBA students, who responded to a poster promising a $2 bill and an opportunity to purchase Celtics tickets. The experiment was held during lunchtime in a classroom. Upon entering the room, students were handed an instruction sheet that described the prizes, the rules for allocating the tickets, and a sheet for indicating their reservation values. They were instructed not to discuss their answers or anything else about the questionnaire. Respondents handed in their completed sheets as they left the room. They were told that the winners would be announced at 5PM that afternoon...
Details of the experiment are then described.

This is yet another study conducted using students who are not representative of the general population. But at least they weren't using teenaged students like many other studies.

And it wasn't exactly representative of a typical purchasing environment. Seems like that would make a difference.
placeholder
Posts: 8375
Joined: Tue Aug 06, 2013 12:43 pm

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by placeholder »

It's almost impossible to devise a realistic situation where the participants are not aware of the experiment and that is the problem with them because even if you get indicators that credit leads to greater spending (which isn't really in doubt) it doesn't show that most people spend more on everyday items if they have credit cards.
fwellimort
Posts: 890
Joined: Tue Feb 12, 2019 8:41 am

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by fwellimort »

My experience with Fidelity and Vanguard has been:
1. Fidelity customer service is more readily available. You need help at Sunday 4:23 AM? Fidelity has that covered. You lost your credit card or your credit card got hacked? Fidelity will send you a new credit card OVER NIGHT.
2. Average wait time on Vanguard phone calls feel much longer and the other side of the call seems less knowledgeable overall (compared to Fidelity counterpart). That said, when you call these brokerages, do expect to be on hold for quite some time depending on the day.
3. Fidelity UI seems far more intuitive than Vanguard UI. Vanguard UI feels like something in the early 2000s. Where's my partial share trading?
4. It's definitely noticeable Fidelity is investing more on the UI space. The mobile apps are far more up-to-date at Fidelity over Vanguard (which looks like series of HTML pages instead of an actual phone app).
5. Fidelity gives me Turbotax Premier for free. Does Vanguard do that? No.
6. Fidelity Cash Management is so easy to use. I get my paycheck from that account and I can immediately invest. Also, all withdrawals/transfers have 0 fees and are quite immediate. Even the ATM fees are waived!
7. Vanguard really underpays its workers (relative to the market) in the software industry. All the while Vanguard praises its mutual fund structure when its management is being very well paid. I would rather support a brokerage that treats its employees better if the products on both are near identical.

Also, I have acted like a naive investor at both Fidelity and Vanguard phone call service (twice on each):
1. Fidelity recommended me to look into its low cost index funds including ZERO funds and kept stressing how low fees their funds across the board. In other words, Fidelity was recommending me low cost funds.
2. Vanguard on other hand kept trying to sell me PAS. No thanks. It seemed to be on a race to grab as much money as possible in the 'low cost' space.
3. Fidelity recommended a free advisor scheduling if one really wants guidance (which is common in most major brokerages). The advisor saw my portfolio of low cost index funds and simply told me that I was doing well unless I needed some additional help. While this is a sample size of 1, I am hesitant I would have gotten the same advice at Vanguard with how much Vanguard tries to shove PAS on its homepage.

Personally, I really don't see why people stick with Vanguard today in this low interest rate environment. Vanguard at times has much better money market funds and specific municipal bond funds.
However, outside that space, I just don't see what Vanguard has over a brokerage like Fidelity.

And the argument is especially hard to make since all the major Vanguard funds have ETF equivalents. And Fidelity allows partial share purchasing of those ETFs (and it also has its own set of near-identical mutual funds).
I also hear great things about Schwab (and the checking account is especially useful when traveling abroad). The only annoyance I have with Schwab is (as of right now), there's no partial share trading for ETFs. That said, Schwab also has its own set of great mutual funds so there's that.

Anyways, at end of day, pick whichever brokerage one is most comfortable sleeping in bed with.
To me, that's Fidelity. I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too.

I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account. Just too much of a headache to manage multiple brokerages.
And if I wanted to open an account today with non-existent customer service, I would personally look into a brokerage like M1 Finance for its pie portfolio structure.
Anyways, at end of day, if you are only buying something like VTI VXUS BND (or its mutual fund equivalent), it really doesn't matter which brokerage you stick with in terms of long term ROI.
bondsr4me
Posts: 2427
Joined: Fri Oct 18, 2013 7:08 am

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by bondsr4me »

fwellimort wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm My experience with Fidelity and Vanguard has been:
1. Fidelity customer service is more readily available. You need help at Sunday 4:23 AM? Fidelity has that covered. You lost your credit card or your credit card got hacked? Fidelity will send you a new credit card OVER NIGHT.
2. Average wait time on Vanguard phone calls feel much longer and the other side of the call seems less knowledgeable overall (compared to Fidelity counterpart). That said, when you call these brokerages, do expect to be on hold for quite some time depending on the day.
3. Fidelity UI seems far more intuitive than Vanguard UI. Vanguard UI feels like something in the early 2000s. Where's my partial share trading?
4. It's definitely noticeable Fidelity is investing more on the UI space. The mobile apps are far more up-to-date at Fidelity over Vanguard (which looks like series of HTML pages instead of an actual phone app).
5. Fidelity gives me Turbotax Premier for free. Does Vanguard do that? No.
6. Fidelity Cash Management is so easy to use. I get my paycheck from that account and I can immediately invest. Also, all withdrawals/transfers have 0 fees and are quite immediate. Even the ATM fees are waived!
7. Vanguard really underpays its workers (relative to the market) in the software industry. All the while Vanguard praises its mutual fund structure when its management is being very well paid. I would rather support a brokerage that treats its employees better if the products on both are near identical.

Also, I have acted like a naive investor at both Fidelity and Vanguard phone call service (twice on each):
1. Fidelity recommended me to look into its low cost index funds including ZERO funds and kept stressing how low fees their funds across the board. In other words, Fidelity was recommending me low cost funds.
2. Vanguard on other hand kept trying to sell me PAS. No thanks. It seemed to be on a race to grab as much money as possible in the 'low cost' space.
3. Fidelity recommended a free advisor scheduling if one really wants guidance (which is common in most major brokerages). The advisor saw my portfolio of low cost index funds and simply told me that I was doing well unless I needed some additional help. While this is a sample size of 1, I am hesitant I would have gotten the same advice at Vanguard with how much Vanguard tries to shove PAS on its homepage.

Personally, I really don't see why people stick with Vanguard today in this low interest rate environment. Vanguard at times has much better money market funds and specific municipal bond funds.
However, outside that space, I just don't see what Vanguard has over a brokerage like Fidelity.

And the argument is especially hard to make since all the major Vanguard funds have ETF equivalents. And Fidelity allows partial share purchasing of those ETFs (and it also has its own set of near-identical mutual funds).
I also hear great things about Schwab (and the checking account is especially useful when traveling abroad). The only annoyance I have with Schwab is (as of right now), there's no partial share trading for ETFs. That said, Schwab also has its own set of great mutual funds so there's that.

Anyways, at end of day, pick whichever brokerage one is most comfortable sleeping in bed with.
To me, that's Fidelity. I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too.

I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account. Just too much of a headache to manage multiple brokerages.
And if I wanted to open an account today with non-existent customer service, I would personally look into a brokerage like M1 Finance for its pie portfolio structure.
Anyways, at end of day, if you are only buying something like VTI VXUS BND (or its mutual fund equivalent), it really doesn't matter which brokerage you stick with in terms of long term ROI.
+1….points well made.
usagi
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:08 am

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by usagi »

Here is my recent Fido experience. We had a death in the family on Monday. We retrieved the will which pointed to a trust document on Tuesday. After reading about the myriad of financial assets in the trust I had some questions about about some of the accounts held in trust outside of Fidelity. I e-mailed my assigned Fido advisor around 3am on Wed. At 9am Wed morning I received a call from my adviser indicating he had received my e-mail and had his team investigating the issue and they would get back to me. A few hours later they contacted me again with the answers to the questions I had asked.
usagi
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:08 am

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by usagi »

fwellimort wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm ....I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too...

...I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account...
My every interaction with Vanguard is negative. Every time I log in I am greeted by security check hell, then followed by ads for PAS, then a bunch of messages about actions I need to take because of yet another changing requirement on their end. I have accounts a multiple brokers and this is the only one that nags me incessantly.

I deeply, deeply regret ever opening an account at Vanguard. Everything is in taxable there and one of the international funds I have cannot be converted to a form that could be transferred out or I would transfer everything and be done with this total train wreck of a company.

Sadly my children's employers have 401k plans with the dreg of a company so yet another generation has been infected with Vanguard. However their personal assets are at Fido so at least they have some experience with good customer service.
lazynovice
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Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 pm
Location: Denver area. Former Texan.

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by lazynovice »

usagi wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:40 pm
fwellimort wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm ....I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too...

...I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account...
…. Everything is in taxable there and one of the international funds I have cannot be converted to a form that could be transferred out….
Which fund? You should be able to transfer it out in mutual fund form.
mkc
Moderator
Posts: 3226
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Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by mkc »

usagi wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:40 pm I deeply, deeply regret ever opening an account at Vanguard. Everything is in taxable there and one of the international funds I have cannot be converted to a form that could be transferred out
Have you queried Schwab to see if they are an option?

With the exception of a handful of funds (and then, possibly only at the Admiral level - investor is OK), I believe you can transfer most in-kind there. With a certain level, Schwab local office will often waive transaction fees for a specific fund family as well.
usagi
Posts: 461
Joined: Wed Jun 05, 2019 1:08 am

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by usagi »

lazynovice wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 pm
usagi wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:40 pm
fwellimort wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm ....I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too...

...I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account...
…. Everything is in taxable there and one of the international funds I have cannot be converted to a form that could be transferred out….
Which fund? You should be able to transfer it out in mutual fund form.
VWIGX.

I hold :

VFIAX
VWIGX
VTSAX

If I recall what Vanguard told me years ago, they had etf equivalents for VFIAX and VTSAX but not for VWIGX. The mechanism in play at the time was you could convert from a mutual fund to an etf without incurring a taxable event and then transfer the etfs to another broker without incurring any taxes and then close your Vanguard Account. At least that is what I think I recall.
Freetime76
Posts: 745
Joined: Wed Jun 26, 2019 8:26 pm

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by Freetime76 »

WillRetire wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 7:59 am
lazynovice wrote: Mon Jul 26, 2021 5:35 pm You don’t trust Fidelity with their fees and advisors or you don’t trust your wife? Does your wife not agree with your investing philosophy? Do you think she will suddenly, upon your death, start buying front end loaded actively managed funds? If so, she’ll go to Edward Jones. They have much better service than Fidelity. You don’t even call an 800 number there. You call your advisor and he’ll even stop by your house.

If your wife agrees with your investing philosophy, she can buy index funds at Fidelity too. She can also buy Vanguard ETFs there.
This post should win awards!
I notice there is no reply :D so maybe going rogue at EJ is a possibility (just kidding).

Re: Vanguard or Fidelity - over 5 - 10 - 20 years, I expect the companies to change anyway (Vanguard may be in the midst of this now, but the reality is that they all change to be competitive). So, Unless a company is egregiously obnoxious in some area that matters to you, it won’t likely matter much.

Maybe: do the funds I want have fees to trade, can RMDs be automatically withdrawn, and can I deal with their website and phone. I like a decent web interface, prompt customer service that will communicate patiently and to successful resolution with my spouse, and the color blue makes me happy, so we use Schwab. Red stresses me out. I didn’t find out about green (Fidelity 401K) until we were already in blue.
Please spell out new acronyms. Thank you.
lazynovice
Posts: 3345
Joined: Mon Apr 16, 2012 10:48 pm
Location: Denver area. Former Texan.

Re: Vanguard customer service - Experiment with Fidelity to compare

Post by lazynovice »

usagi wrote: Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:32 am
lazynovice wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 7:21 pm
usagi wrote: Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:40 pm
fwellimort wrote: Wed Jul 28, 2021 5:52 pm ....I dislike Vanguard constantly bombarding the home screen with PAS.
Many others here like Schwab, a brokerage known for great customer service too...

...I have my money at both Fidelity and Vanguard. My main money is at Fidelity. Personally, if I could redo everything, I would have never opened the Vanguard account...
…. Everything is in taxable there and one of the international funds I have cannot be converted to a form that could be transferred out….
Which fund? You should be able to transfer it out in mutual fund form.
VWIGX.

I hold :

VFIAX
VWIGX
VTSAX

If I recall what Vanguard told me years ago, they had etf equivalents for VFIAX and VTSAX but not for VWIGX. The mechanism in play at the time was you could convert from a mutual fund to an etf without incurring a taxable event and then transfer the etfs to another broker without incurring any taxes and then close your Vanguard Account. At least that is what I think I recall.
You can transfer the mutual fund shares of VWIGX to Fidelity and probably most any brokerage. You can sell them for free at Fidelity. You would just have to pay a commission to buy new shares. Or you an buy them in a Vanguard account and transfer them to Fidelity periodically. If you have a large enough account, Schwab will waive the purchase fee on the Vanguard fund.
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