VPAS Advisor

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purpleRose
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VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

Hi Bogleheads,

If anyone is happy with their VPAS advisor (for flagship) could you please PM me their information.
Vanguard has set up an appointment with an advidor who has been with them for a year (whoever was available at the time slot I chose), but I will be more comfortable talking with someone who has been a VPAS advisor for longer. Thanks.
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Wiggums
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by Wiggums »

The advisor has one year of work experience or the advisor has more work experience, but been with VG for one year?
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teniralc
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by teniralc »

purpleRose wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 4:22 pm Hi Bogleheads,

If anyone is happy with their VPAS advisor (for flagship) could you please PM me their information.
Vanguard has set up an appointment with an advidor who has been with them for a year (whoever was available at the time slot I chose), but I will be more comfortable talking with someone who has been a VPAS advisor for longer. Thanks.
These pages might give you some more background on each advisor, including how long they've been with Vanguard. I'm not sure if you can request a specific advisor. I have used the service for about one year now and used the advisor they assigned. We have been very satisfied with the service and advisor. The service is not perfect and is still evolving, particularly the website. This type of service is probably not for everyone on this Boglehead's site, as many like to "do it yourself" with investing. I'm a combination of a DIY person and one who needs & wants some help sometimes.

https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/r130.pdf

https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/r140.pdf
venkman
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by venkman »

From everything I've heard, PAS advice tends to be pretty uniform, and ends up looking a lot like the allocation of a LifeStrategy fund. I doubt the advisor's level of experience is going to make much of a difference.
UpperNwGuy
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by UpperNwGuy »

What are you hoping an advisor will do for you?
backpacker61
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by backpacker61 »

Vanguard has been growing extremely rapidly, and so they have probably been adding lots of new PAS advisors. The investment advice will probably be substantially the same regardless of who the advisor is. Much of the value of the advisor, though, will be related to their coaching skills; helping you with budgeting, motivation, staying the course, etc.

The designated Flagship representatives I had (don't use PAS) were always a lot younger than I am, but seemed okay.

I would give the new person an opportunity before requesting a different one.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
pennywise
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by pennywise »

backpacker61 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 am Vanguard has been growing extremely rapidly, and so they have probably been adding lots of new PAS advisors. The investment advice will probably be substantially the same regardless of who the advisor is. Much of the value of the advisor, though, will be related to their coaching skills; helping you with budgeting, motivation, staying the course, etc.

The designated Flagship representatives I had (don't use PAS) were always a lot younger than I am, but seemed okay.

I would give the new person an opportunity before requesting a different one.
+1

We were assigned an advisor (just found him on the link above LOL) and have been very satisfied. As noted the Vanguard PAS model is fairly uniform so his-or any PAS rep's-recommendations are within the framework of the firm's strategic investment philosophy. That said, he has definitely been a very useful resource for us in terms of guidance through a couple of market wobbles and we trust his judgment.

OP, you may want to keep in mind the entire Vanguard approach is very different from that of the garden variety investment advisor. They are the opposite of the gunslinger/gonna-make-you-rich-overnight stereotypical finance "guy". They aren't swinging for the bleachers but then again they aren't striking out as frequently either.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

Wiggums wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 7:26 pm The advisor has one year of work experience or the advisor has more work experience, but been with VG for one year?
Been with Vanguard for around 7 months (looked up their profile). So not as much experience allocating maintaing portfolios the Vanguard way- so would prefer one with a longer history at Vanguard. Advisor does have more work experience, but history shows a change in firms every 1 to 2 years.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

teniralc wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 8:18 pm These pages might give you some more background on each advisor, including how long they've been with Vanguard. I'm not sure if you can request a specific advisor. I have used the service for about one year now and used the advisor they assigned. We have been very satisfied with the service and advisor. The service is not perfect and is still evolving, particularly the website. This type of service is probably not for everyone on this Boglehead's site, as many like to "do it yourself" with investing. I'm a combination of a DIY person and one who needs & wants some help sometimes.
https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/r130.pdf

https://www.vanguard.com/pdf/r140.pdf
Thanks for the pdfs. I don't think one can request a particular advisor, but one can request a change of who they assign you.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

venkman wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:46 am From everything I've heard, PAS advice tends to be pretty uniform, and ends up looking a lot like the allocation of a LifeStrategy fund. I doubt the advisor's level of experience is going to make much of a difference.
You are right that they need to stay within the Vanguard framework. Although I think they can build some variations into the portfolio - like more short term bond funds or small cap depending on one's other outside allocation. That's where experience will come in.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:15 am What are you hoping an advisor will do for you?
I want to see how they approach building the portfolio with our specific requirements. How they plan to manage it. What glide path they will follow.

If it's just cookie cutter and more of an emotional support system then I don't need that and will go with multi-asset funds in tax-advantaged accounts to keep it simple and hands off (a more aggressive one in Roths and less aggressive one in IRA's for an overall allocation of what I am looking at) .
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

backpacker61 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:25 am Vanguard has been growing extremely rapidly, and so they have probably been adding lots of new PAS advisors. The investment advice will probably be substantially the same regardless of who the advisor is. Much of the value of the advisor, though, will be related to their coaching skills; helping you with budgeting, motivation, staying the course, etc.
At this point I think I can stay the course, but I can see how their support could be useful when the market corrects 20%+ and keeps going lower.
backpacker61 wrote: I would give the new person an opportunity before requesting a different one.
Not only has this advisor been with Vanguard for only around 7 months, but their history shows a constant change of jobs after 1 to 2 years. Besides having a VPAS role - a new role of marketing has now been recently assigned. So based on history I don't think this advisor will stay with Vanguard or this role for a long time. If I am going to hand over a portfolio, I would like at least some advisor consistency.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

pennywise wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:44 am That said, he has definitely been a very useful resource for us in terms of guidance through a couple of market wobbles and we trust his judgment.
Do they help with Roth IRA conversion keeping income limits in mind for ACA or medicare? RMD distributions, tax loss harvesting.... all this would be helpful.
pennywise wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:44 am OP, you may want to keep in mind the entire Vanguard approach is very different from that of the garden variety investment advisor. They are the opposite of the gunslinger/gonna-make-you-rich-overnight stereotypical finance "guy". They aren't swinging for the bleachers but then again they aren't striking out as frequently either.
I am looking for a conservative portfolio allocation and management until SSN. Then moving to a moderate allocation. So am ok with them not trying to time the market for extra gains.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:15 am What are you hoping an advisor will do for you?
I want to see how they approach building the portfolio with our specific requirements. How they plan to manage it (tax loss harvesting, Roth conversions keeping ACA/medicare in mind, RMDs). What glide path they will follow.

If it's just cookie cutter and more of an emotional support system then I don't need that and will go with multi-asset funds in tax-advantaged accounts to keep it simple and hands off (a more aggressive one in Roths and less aggressive one in IRA's for an overall allocation of what I am looking at) .
Last edited by purpleRose on Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

-- deleted. duplicate post --
Last edited by purpleRose on Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
tibbitts
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by tibbitts »

Whenever I see the "cookie cutter" comment, I always ask what is specific about your situation that isn't in fact "cookie cutter", and would suggest anything other than a "cookie cutter" solution?

As for experience, although I disagree somewhat with the premise, it's been pointed out to me in other threads that employers are desperate for employees, so wouldn't you expect an ambitious person to job-hop in this environment? Wouldn't Bogleheads in fact recommend that? Would it really be that appealing to select an adviser whose highlight of every day is putting mustard on his ham sandwich, and planning his 23 weeks of accumulated vacation? How are you going to differentiate between "dead wood" experience and what I'm sure you want: a resurrected David Swensen, with access to all the resources and investment options he had at Yale.

Honestly I don't think the PAS model is the best for what you've mentioned regardless of the adviser you're assigned, but I don't have personal experience with PAS so I'll leave that for others to address. It just seems like you have unrealistic expectations for the service.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:12 pm
UpperNwGuy wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 6:15 am What are you hoping an advisor will do for you?
I want to see how they approach building the portfolio with our specific requirements. How they plan to manage it (tax loss harvesting, Roth conversions keeping ACA/medicare in mind, RMDs). What glide path they will follow.

If it's just cookie cutter and more of an emotional support system then I don't need that and will go with multi-asset funds in tax-advantaged accounts to keep it simple and hands off (a more aggressive one in Roths and less aggressive one in IRA's for an overall allocation of what I am looking at) .
Using a large Advisory service like VPAS is sort of like opening a box of chocolates, you aren't sure what you are going to get. As another poster said, Vanguard has hired a lot of people for their Advisory service as assets have poured in. It isn't unusual that an Advisor might do seven or eight presentations in a day, so even a new person might squeeze in a lot of experience in a relatively short period of time. An independent Advisor running his or her own business might do three such presentations in a week. A newer person would also be up to date. So I wouldn't necessarily dismiss someone because they are relatively new.

I am test driving a competitor's service and there they have experienced growth too. I looked it up and each advisor works with on average 47 clients. After a year and a half, I am on my second Advisor.

So just like everyone else, we want individual attention and we want the best of what the firm has to offer. You have a point here because I think exactly the same things. What I would say is to give the new person a chance. You do, have the right to ask for somebody more experienced. It is up to you. With such a large service, it is like everything else, some will be better than others.

What you can be assured of is that all of their Advisors have been well trained and they use the same planning software and they use the same algorithm for determining portfolio allocation. They will keep good notes and so if you get a new person, the new person would be able to pick up where the old person left off.

Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
A fool and his money are good for business.
stan1
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by stan1 »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:09 pm Do they help with Roth IRA conversion keeping income limits in mind for ACA or medicare? RMD distributions, tax loss harvesting.... all this would be helpful.
At some level of detail they will tell you to talk to a tax advisor. A person who is expert in all those areas is going to command in the ballpark of $300-500 per hour and is not just a Certified Financial Planner (CFP).
stan1
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by stan1 »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm What you can be assured of is that all of their Advisors have been well trained and they use the same planning software and they use the same algorithm for determining portfolio allocation. They will keep good notes and so if you get a new person, the new person would be able to pick up where the old person left off.
The PAS reps are high end call center employees. They have a lot of training and likely have passed through some wickets on advanced customer support skills along with their certifications but to your point they work to a script, use the Vanguard provided software not their own spreadsheets, they take notes on everything you say, they can forward requests to a specialty tier help desk, and they will lose their jobs if they go too far off the script. They will be well trained in their boundaries such as not offering tax or legal advice.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

stan1 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:06 pm
purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:09 pm Do they help with Roth IRA conversion keeping income limits in mind for ACA or medicare? RMD distributions, tax loss harvesting.... all this would be helpful.
At some level of detail they will tell you to talk to a tax advisor. A person who is expert in all those areas is going to command in the ballpark of $300-500 per hour and is not just a Certified Financial Planner (CFP).
A Certified Financial Planner is focused on the big picture of your financial life and making sure that the pieces of your financial plan all work together towards whatever goals you have. A CFP is competent to give a certain level of tax advice, their software ought to be able to do some scenario planning, and lay out some options for you. If the tax advice you want is very complex, they will suggest you talk to a tax person. There are, however, CFPs that have Enrolled Agent status before the IRS and thus would be equipped to provide more complex tax advice.

I often suggest that people use off the shelf tax software to run scenarios. They can do this with something like H&R Block, Turbo Tax, Tax Act, etc. You can essentially copy your actual tax returns and put in numbers for such things as sale of a property, a ROTH Conversion, or other such scenarios. This will give you a pretty good idea of what might happen. Of course the tax law changes from year to year and you have to take that into consideration. I would still go to an expert before making a huge financial decision with tax consequences but this process of using off the shelf software is a good first pass. This is very educational and would sharpen your questions that you would have of a Tax Advisor. This advice assumes people are comfortable with software and have done their own taxes in the past.

So your Vanguard Advisor can give you some good basic tax advice and lay out some options. If you have someone do your taxes, you could go back to them and have them run scenarios on their tax software. The Vanguard Advisor could educate you to some degree and give you some options to think about. As was noted above, they are not Tax Preparers, so they will likely tell you to go to someone more expert.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

stan1 wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:14 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm What you can be assured of is that all of their Advisors have been well trained and they use the same planning software and they use the same algorithm for determining portfolio allocation. They will keep good notes and so if you get a new person, the new person would be able to pick up where the old person left off.
The PAS reps are high end call center employees. They have a lot of training and likely have passed through some wickets on advanced customer support skills along with their certifications but to your point they work to a script, use the Vanguard provided software not their own spreadsheets, they take notes on everything you say, they can forward requests to a specialty tier help desk, and they will lose their jobs if they go too far off the script. They will be well trained in their boundaries such as not offering tax or legal advice.
Well, with the Covid restrictions, a whole lot of us did our jobs remotely and thus became in effect call center employees. In my case, I worked remotely a day or so when I felt under the weather but was otherwise able to work and another day when I got snowed in.

But yes, there are limits to what the Vanguard Advisors can do. They are constricted by such things as time. But on the other hand, they get a lot of experience in a short period of time.

In another thread, I got criticism because someone thought I was obsessed with a planning firms back office costs. The reality is that whatever fees you are paying will buy a limited amount of somebody's time. If you have a $100,000 account, your fees are $300 per year. To make this work, the firm probably needs about $150-$200 an hour, so in this situation you are buying about 1 1/2 to 2 hours of someone's time. For a new account, you will get more time than that because the firm hopes that you will bring in other assets and that your present account will grow. So they sacrifice a bit in hopes of bringing in more assets.

If you have a $1,000,000 as opposed to $100,000 you will get more time and a more able person to handle your account. The business model has to be scalable, at some point people have to be paid for what they do and the firm needs to make a profit. Unless you have a very large account, they aren't going to fly someone to go see you. So yes, it is sort of an advanced call center approach. If Vanguard doesn't want the expense of brick and mortar offices all over the country, it just has to be this way.

So folks have to have some sense of what an advisory service can do for them. I am test driving a competitor's Advisory service and I am finding all this out for myself.
A fool and his money are good for business.
GmanJeff
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by GmanJeff »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:09 pm
Do they help with Roth IRA conversion keeping income limits in mind for ACA or medicare? RMD distributions, tax loss harvesting.... all this would be helpful.

I am looking for a conservative portfolio allocation and management until SSN. Then moving to a moderate allocation. So am ok with them not trying to time the market for extra gains.
Yes, PAS can assist with all of those and more, such as Social Security claiming strategies. I additionally looped in my CPA when contemplating Roth conversions, to more accurately project my tax liabilities with different dollar conversion amounts.

Market timing is not part of PAS' vocabulary, so no worries there.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

GmanJeff wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:59 pm
Yes, PAS can assist with all of those and more, such as Social Security claiming strategies. I additionally looped in my CPA when contemplating Roth conversions, to more accurately project my tax liabilities with different dollar conversion amounts.

Market timing is not part of PAS' vocabulary, so no worries there.
Thanks. Helpful reply.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm
I am test driving a competitor's service and there they have experienced growth too.

Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
Is the service Schwab- Intelligent portfolios?

Will let you know......
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

tibbitts wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:47 pm Whenever I see the "cookie cutter" comment, I always ask what is specific about your situation that isn't in fact "cookie cutter", and would suggest anything other than a "cookie cutter" solution?
"cookie cutter" to me is some stock:bond allocation in taxable/tax-advantaged and done.
Some may have specific situations to build a portfolio around like stocks, company stock, want a lower international allocation, maybe a more conservative allocation than usual, addition of some closed funds ..... How they approach this process is important - will they accomodate or make it "cookie-cutter". In addition what other services are provided.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:47 pm so wouldn't you expect an ambitious person to job-hop in this environment? Wouldn't Bogleheads in fact recommend that? Would it really be that appealing to select an adviser whose highlight of every day is putting mustard on his ham sandwich, and planning his 23 weeks of accumulated vacation?
How are you going to differentiate between "dead wood" experience and what I'm sure you want: a resurrected David Swensen, with access to all the resources and investment options he had at Yale.
Sure, an ambitious person would job hop. But job hop every 1 to 2 years in 8 or so different firms?
Maybe not someone with 23 years, but at least 3-4 years as a VPAS. Looking at their history is one way to get someone I would be comfortable handing over a large portfolio especially since we are conservative by nature.
tibbitts wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:47 pm Honestly I don't think the PAS model is the best for what you've mentioned regardless of the adviser you're assigned, but I don't have personal experience with PAS so I'll leave that for others to address. It just seems like you have unrealistic expectations for the service.
Maybe VPAS is not the right model for me or maybe it is. I think they do handle tax loss harvesting now that they have moved to ETF's. They also handle RMD's. Roth conversions I don't know. But as CFP's they will know the income limits for ACA/medicare and should be able to convert the correct amount. So my expectations are not unrealistic. My question for them is how do they approach these issues.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:20 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm
I am test driving a competitor's service and there they have experienced growth too.

Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
Is the service Schwab- Intelligent portfolios?

Will let you know......
I have looked into Schwab for a family member, there you get access to Certified Financial Planners for $300 up front and $30 a month. You can always call with questions but you might not get the same person each time. This service is in tandem with the Intelligent Portfolios, sort of a hybrid human/robot advisory model.

As for me, I am test driving a service at American Century, I have posted elsewhere about this. The first guy I had was a Financial Consultant and he had three securities licenses. The second guy is a Certified Financial Planner. The big firms are hiring CFPs now. The big asset manager firms are hearing from their clients that they want comprehensive financial planning so you will see even more of this in the future.

If your Advisor at Vanguard has a CFP designation, it is a good sign. You need about 3 years of work experience, a College Degree, and to pass the CFP Exam which is a difficult exam. One person who had been through the CPA Exam said the CFP Exam is about 2/3 as difficult. So it is a good credential to have.

I think Vanguard is a good option for you, the comments here on the forum have been mostly positive. They do more for you than just assign a portfolio. Whoever you get will be competent.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by pennywise »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 1:09 pm
pennywise wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:44 am That said, he has definitely been a very useful resource for us in terms of guidance through a couple of market wobbles and we trust his judgment.


Do they help with Roth IRA conversion keeping income limits in mind for ACA or medicare? RMD distributions, tax loss harvesting.... all this would be helpful.
Yes I think that's definitely within the area your advisor can address. We chose to use PAS specifically because we had a bit of a tangle of accounts with different taxation, withdrawal and balancing considerations.
pennywise wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 7:44 am OP, you may want to keep in mind the entire Vanguard approach is very different from that of the garden variety investment advisor. They are the opposite of the gunslinger/gonna-make-you-rich-overnight stereotypical finance "guy". They aren't swinging for the bleachers but then again they aren't striking out as frequently either.

I am looking for a conservative portfolio allocation and management until SSN. Then moving to a moderate allocation. So am ok with them not trying to time the market for extra gains.
PAS sounds like a good fit, and of course you can always start with an advisor for awhile and then if/as you prefer to DIY, drop the service and sail on.
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by backpacker61 »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 3:22 pm They also handle RMD's. Roth conversions I don't know. But as CFP's they will know the income limits for ACA/medicare and should be able to convert the correct amount. So my expectations are not unrealistic. My question for them is how do they approach these issues.
For IRA RMD's, Vanguard has a free service to automatically calculate the RMD amount each year, withhold funds for taxes, and distribute the withdrawals to your bank or cash management account, or otherwise reinvest RMD proceeds in a taxable account. You don't have to be enrolled in PAS to make use of it.

https://investor.vanguard.com/retiremen ... e/rmd-faqs

I plan to make use of this service when I become subject to RMD's.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
I finally had the 2 meetings with an advisor who had a couple of years exerience at Vanguard and was a CFP. At the first meeting they note down goals and preferences from there they develop a portfolio based on your risk profile and time horizon.

The advisor did take my preferences into account for funds used. So your portfolio may not look like the LifeStrategy funds. However they maintain some formula of % in asset classes and % in sub-asset classes based on their models (for example international is usually 40% of stock %, but they will go as low as 20%). They review and project over all your accounts, but will only give you a plan for what they will manage (which includes tax efficient placement of funds). They expect you to allocate external accounts in a similar way.

They will handle Roth conversions (not sure if they keep ACA and medicare limits in mind. I ran out of time to ask). They help with the best way to claim SSN, handle RMD's and can maintain around 2 years of cash for spending. You can choose a Dynamic spending model for withdrawals. You can call and talk to them as many times as you want. They have different glide paths in different tracks - very conservative, conservative, moderate etc. etc. and will pick one based on how you answer questions and your time horizon.

They do use surrogate funds if they sell in a taxable account at a loss. However I am not sure if they will take into account wash sale rules (if they sell at a loss in taxable and the same or similar fund/ETF is also in an IRA or Roth). This advisor was also willing to dollar cost average into the stock portion over a year.

I think this service could be beneficial for those who want a custom portfolio on auto-pilot. Especially useful in the later withdrawal years where they use their dynamic model for variable yearly spending amounts each year, calculate RMDs, re-balance, maintain a spending account and project portfolio values. Gives one peace of mind.

If Vanguard had a reasonable monthly cost like Schwab offers then I would not hesitate to join. Right now costs are a bit high especially for larger portfolios. I may consider a part of the portfolio like others have and mirror the rest. For now target date funds are also an option.
Last edited by purpleRose on Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:37 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:25 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
I finally had the 2 meetings with an advisor who had a couple of years exerience at Vanguard and was a CFP. At the first meeting they note down goals and preferences from there they develop a portfolio based on your risk profile and time horizon.

The advisor did take my preferences into account for funds used. So your portfolio may not look like the LifeStrategy funds. However they maintain some formula of % in asset classes and % in sub-asset classes based on their models (for example international is usually 40% of stock %, but they will go as low as 20%). They review and project over all your accounts, but will only give you a plan for what they will manage (which includes tax efficient placement of funds). They expect you to allocate external accounts in a similar way.

They will handle Roth conversions (not sure if they keep ACA and medicare limits in mind. I ran out of time to ask). They help with the best way to claim SSN, handle RMD's and can maintain around 2 years of cash for spending. You can choose a Dynamic spending model for withdrawals. You can call and talk to them as many times as you want. They have different glide paths in different tracks - very conservative, conservative, moderate etc. etc. and will pick one based on how you answer questions and your time horizon.

They do use surrogate funds if they sell in a taxable account at a loss. However I am not sure if they will take into account wash sale rules (if they sell at a loss in taxable and the same or similar fund/ETF is also in an IRA or Roth). This advisor was also willing to dollar cost average into the stock portion over a year.

I think this service could be beneficial for those who want a custom portfolio on auto-pilot. Especially useful in the later withdrawal years where they use their dynamic model for variable spending amounts each year, calculate RMDs, re-balance, maintain a spending account and project portfolio values. Gives one peace of mind.

If Vanguard had a reasonable monthly cost like Schwab offers then I would not hesitate to join. Right now costs are a bit high especially for larger portfolios. I may consider a part of the portfolio like others have and mirror the rest. For now target date funds are also an option.
Thanks for your response and for taking the time to write all of this out in detail. I am sure it will be very helpful to those who are considering using VPAS. I really appreciate this, thank you.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:29 pm Thanks for your response and for taking the time to write all of this out in detail. I am sure it will be very helpful to those who are considering using VPAS. I really appreciate this, thank you.
Your most welcome. This community has been so helpful on my journey of financial planning for retirement. Everyone shares their knowledge so generously and it was a very small way to give back.
GmanJeff
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by GmanJeff »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:25 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Jul 25, 2021 2:04 pm Whoever you meet with, let us know how it all went, it will be of great interest. I want to know what your experience was. Had a family member recently ask about Vanguard's service.
They do use surrogate funds if they sell in a taxable account at a loss. However I am not sure if they will take into account wash sale rules (if they sell at a loss in taxable and the same or similar fund/ETF is also in an IRA or Roth).
They do consider wash sale rules in these situations.
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

purpleRose wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:33 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:29 pm Thanks for your response and for taking the time to write all of this out in detail. I am sure it will be very helpful to those who are considering using VPAS. I really appreciate this, thank you.
Your most welcome. This community has been so helpful on my journey of financial planning for retirement. Everyone shares their knowledge so generously and it was a very small way to give back.
I do advocate for Advisors and I do believe that most people would benefit from an ongoing relationship with a good Advisor or a good firm. The ongoing advisory fees, even the 0.30% charged at Vanguard, do add up over time and this is a very important issue. As Jack Bogle noted, not only do investment returns compound over time but also do expenses. The compounding effect of expenses over time can cost big bucks over time, depending upon the level of fees involved, it can be hundreds of thousands of dollars over time. So far, I have refused to pay AUM fees of 1% or more.

Schwab, Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, and Fidelity offer good solutions for those wanting both guidance and portfolio management. Schwab seems to have the best deal but the execution is everything, lots of promises are made but what is actually delivered? My best bet is that all four options would provide an acceptable level of service at a reasonable cost.

Unfortunately, nothing is perfect and everything is subject to change. Best of luck on whatever you decide. Best wishes, Ned.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

GmanJeff wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:40 pm They do consider wash sale rules in these situations.
This advisor had the same fund in taxable and IRA. To avoid wash sales he would have to stop dividend reinvestment in the IRA if he was going to sell at a loss in taxable (don't think they would manage to this detail). I requested that different funds be used to avoid this issue. But, he seemed hesitant to change the plan and wanted to just start and make the change later.

The plan document also states several situations where they "will not seek to avoid wash sales when"....
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purpleRose
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by purpleRose »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:44 pm The ongoing advisory fees, even the 0.30% charged at Vanguard, do add up over time and this is a very important issue. As Jack Bogle noted, not only do investment returns compound over time but also do expenses. The compounding effect of expenses over time can cost big bucks over time, depending upon the level of fees involved, it can be hundreds of thousands of dollars over time.
Agree. I think if Vanguard shifts to a monthly cost model they will get many more larger accounts signing up. Their model does take into account fees and fund costs as they reduce gains by .5% in their projections.
drzzzzz
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by drzzzzz »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:44 pm
purpleRose wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:33 pm
nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 1:29 pm Thanks for your response and for taking the time to write all of this out in detail. I am sure it will be very helpful to those who are considering using VPAS. I really appreciate this, thank you.
Your most welcome. This community has been so helpful on my journey of financial planning for retirement. Everyone shares their knowledge so generously and it was a very small way to give back.
I do advocate for Advisors and I do believe that most people would benefit from an ongoing relationship with a good Advisor or a good firm. The ongoing advisory fees, even the 0.30% charged at Vanguard, do add up over time and this is a very important issue. As Jack Bogle noted, not only do investment returns compound over time but also do expenses. The compounding effect of expenses over time can cost big bucks over time, depending upon the level of fees involved, it can be hundreds of thousands of dollars over time. So far, I have refused to pay AUM fees of 1% or more.

Schwab, Vanguard, T. Rowe Price, and Fidelity offer good solutions for those wanting both guidance and portfolio management. Schwab seems to have the best deal but the execution is everything, lots of promises are made but what is actually delivered? My best bet is that all four options would provide an acceptable level of service at a reasonable cost.

Unfortunately, nothing is perfect and everything is subject to change. Best of luck on whatever you decide. Best wishes, Ned.
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

drzzzzz wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:10 pm
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
$300 Upfront financial planning fee upfront, $30 per month thereafter with a $25,000 minimum investment. Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, their robo advisor, manages the portfolio.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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bertilak
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by bertilak »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:44 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:10 pm
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
$300 Upfront financial planning fee upfront, $30 per month thereafter with a $25,000 minimum investment. Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, their robo advisor, manages the portfolio.
Vanguard also has a Digital Advisor:
  • Our 0.20% gross advisory fee (advisory fee plus costs for typical investments) means your annual cost is ...
And they clarify that as an all-inclusive total of $2000/year for $!M invested.

I believe this means that, if the fund ERs totaled 0.05%, then the advisory fee itself is about 0.15% (= 0.20% - 0.05%).

Do you know if the PAS fee of 0.30% should also be thought of in the same way, making the fee itself about 0.25%? Is this the way others do it?
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Explorer
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by Explorer »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:44 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:10 pm
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
$300 Upfront financial planning fee upfront, $30 per month thereafter with a $25,000 minimum investment. Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, their robo advisor, manages the portfolio.
I believe that Schwab's monthly fee is miniscule for larger balances - thus better deal. The issue I have with Schwab is they treat each account as a separate Intelligent Portfolio with no "over-arching" view of adjusting AA for the whole portfolio.

So, what you are paying $30 per month is "access to advisors" not auto-rebalancing on your whole portfolio (which would typically consist of multiple intelligent portfolio accounts).
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nedsaid
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by nedsaid »

bertilak wrote: Mon Oct 25, 2021 6:41 am
nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:44 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:10 pm
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
$300 Upfront financial planning fee upfront, $30 per month thereafter with a $25,000 minimum investment. Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, their robo advisor, manages the portfolio.
Vanguard also has a Digital Advisor:
  • Our 0.20% gross advisory fee (advisory fee plus costs for typical investments) means your annual cost is ...
And they clarify that as an all-inclusive total of $2000/year for $!M invested.

I believe this means that, if the fund ERs totaled 0.05%, then the advisory fee itself is about 0.15% (= 0.20% - 0.05%).

Do you know if the PAS fee of 0.30% should also be thought of in the same way, making the fee itself about 0.25%? Is this the way others do it?
Schwab had the digital portfolio management + financial planning. You have a live Financial Planner to talk to but perhaps it won't be the same person each time.
A fool and his money are good for business.
tj
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Re: VPAS Advisor

Post by tj »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:44 pm
drzzzzz wrote: Sun Oct 24, 2021 8:10 pm
What does Schwab price their service at or why a better deal?
$300 Upfront financial planning fee upfront, $30 per month thereafter with a $25,000 minimum investment. Schwab Intelligent Portfolios, their robo advisor, manages the portfolio.

Schwab has the mandatory cash allocation which they profit off the interest rate spreads. In these days, it's not as big of a deal as times when interest rates are higher.
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