529 Plan Portfolios

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aeaiaea
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529 Plan Portfolios

Post by aeaiaea »

Hi all,

I would like to get a sense of what you hold in your 529 account. Target enrollment funds? Low cost index funds? Something else?

Also, how much risk do you feel comfortable taking in your 529 account?

Thanks!
Wannaretireearly
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Wannaretireearly »

aeaiaea wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 pm Hi all,

I would like to get a sense of what you hold in your 529 account. Target enrollment funds? Low cost index funds? Something else?

Also, how much risk do you feel comfortable taking in your 529 account?

Thanks!
Target/age funds from the vanguard Nevada plan. AA glides more conservative towards start of college. Worked ok so far. 5 and 8 years to go.

Grown nicely over the past 10 years. Thought about switching to more aggressive, but these are $ we want to use up, so will probably leave as is.
“At some point you are trading time you will never get back for money you will never spend.“ | “How do you want to spend the best remaining year of your life?“
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aeaiaea
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by aeaiaea »

Thanks. I also feel like these Vanguard Target Enrollment funds are little too conservative. I was thinking of moving my existing target enrollment funds to later-dated ones to decrease bond %. Part of me just wants to switch to VTWAX. I can't see bonds adding much in returns in the near/mid term. But, as you say, these funds will be spent over the next 7-15 years.
delamer
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by delamer »

aeaiaea wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:52 pm Thanks. I also feel like these Vanguard Target Enrollment funds are little too conservative. I was thinking of moving my existing target enrollment funds to later-dated ones to decrease bond %. Part of me just wants to switch to VTWAX. I can't see bonds adding much in returns in the near/mid term. But, as you say, these funds will be spent over the next 7-15 years.
The point of bonds isn’t too add to returns. They are “a source of diversification to help reduce volatility and overall portfolio risk.”

VTWAX is OK for young kids’ college portfolios.

But what happens if a bear market occurs when your kid is 16 amd you are 100% stocks? Not a pretty picture.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
mervinj7
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by mervinj7 »

aeaiaea wrote: Thu Jul 22, 2021 8:45 pm Hi all,

I would like to get a sense of what you hold in your 529 account. Target enrollment funds? Low cost index funds? Something else?

Also, how much risk do you feel comfortable taking in your 529 account?

Thanks!
85% Fidelity Total Market Index Portfolio (ER 0.11%)
15% Fidelity Intermediate Treasury Index Portfolio (ER 0.12%)
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1789
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by 1789 »

Sp500 index fund until kids become 10-12 years old. Then start adding some bond index funds; total bonds or treasury bonds whichever available in the plan.
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Brianmcg321
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Brianmcg321 »

I hold the Total Market Index in my daughters account.
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aeaiaea
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by aeaiaea »

Thanks for all the thoughts/opinions. For those that don't use target date enrollment funds, what kind of stock-bond mix do you generally employ at the various time frames prior to enrollment. Curious to know whether folks generally pick less conservative mixes than Vanguard employs at the same time frames.
Broken Man 1999
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

For my grandchildren I have the Vanguard Nevada 529 plans.

I had all the plans in the age-based portfolios until the covid caused equity decline in 2020. At that time I changed all new contributions for all plans to Total Stock Market Index.

Instead of worrying about bonds when they get near college age, I have started buying I-bonds with POD to each of the the grandchildren. I can cash them in for my expenses if needed, or the grandkids can use them for college if I don't need them or I am deceased.

Broken Man 1999
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Nebraska_Drought
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Nebraska_Drought »

I use the age based/aggressive option in the Nebraska 529 system. It has served well and I also like how it adjusts the AA as my kids got older. With one in college now and the other in 2 years, I like the "glide path" associated with the age based options and users can adjust based upon their risk tolerance as they have conservative/moderate/aggressive options on the age based choices. They also have a good slate of funds to pick from is a user wanted to try and set up a specific AA.

My approach is that this is money to be used soon and I don't want to chase some extra gains at the expense of losing a lot of $$ if the market has a large correction as time is not on the side of my kids when it comes to these plans as the horizon for using the funds is now in one instance and soon in the other.
Lextalionis
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Lextalionis »

I hold aggressive funds in the 529, max the yearly amount, and occasionally in an up market will use the proceeds to offset k-12 private school. I have ibonds that I can use for the tax efficiency as the kids get closer to college for larger tuition gaps. I also assume, maybe incorrectly, that the private school education will provide solid ground for scholarships and other offsets to cost. The rest will be out of pocket (theirs I hope).
schwank
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by schwank »

Our child has 13 years before needing the funds, so currently our 529 is 100% Vanguard Total Stock Market Index VSMPX. I intend to keep it that way for at least another 10 years. Not worried about the risk as we can cash flow any other needs if necessary.
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drumboy256
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by drumboy256 »

My kids' 529's are in Vanguard's 80/20 mix of which i'm just going to leave it there until money is depleted.
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tenkuky
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by tenkuky »

drumboy256 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:07 pm My kids' 529's are in Vanguard's 80/20 mix of which i'm just going to leave it there until money is depleted.
No glide path or getting more conservative as they get closer?
What about sequence of returns risk?
We glided to 25-75 now 1 year out from 80-20 4 years ago.
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drumboy256
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by drumboy256 »

tenkuky wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:15 pm
drumboy256 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:07 pm My kids' 529's are in Vanguard's 80/20 mix of which i'm just going to leave it there until money is depleted.
No glide path or getting more conservative as they get closer?
What about sequence of returns risk?
We glided to 25-75 now 1 year out from 80-20 4 years ago.
For us, no real need. Kids are 10 and 8 of which I'm expecting monies to be available to them for the next 20 years in case they go to college and/or grad school. Scholarships and/or grants not withstanding, I've also got them UTMA accounts if needed as well. I get the whole glide path to preserve capital but for us, keeping it simple.
Promise is one thing. Fulfilling that promise is quite another. - Sir Alex Ferguson | 20% IVV / 40% IBIT / 20% IXUS / 20% VGLT + chill
HasHas
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by HasHas »

We were lucky to find low cost index funds in our state's 529 plan. The ERs of US stock, bond, and global ex-US stock indices are 0.11%, 0.12%, and 0.16%, respectively. Our child is 4 and we are currently at 80/20 AA (with 60/40 US/International in equities). Our AA is inspired by Vanguard's 529 age based allocation portfolios. However, as I discussed in the following post, Vanguard's portfolios are becoming too conservative. We are still deciding on how much to deviate from them in the near future.
Vanguard's 529 Age Based Allocation
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Moondawg
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Moondawg »

NYSaves has similar risked-based portfolios like the other plans mentioned. My child is 2 years old and is invested in the "Aggressive Growth Portfolio" made up of:

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund 60%
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund 40%
Ed 2
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Ed 2 »

I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel
HasHas
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by HasHas »

Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:58 pm I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
Ed 2
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Ed 2 »

HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:58 pm I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
We actually stopped contributing into college funds for our kids when they were in last grades at High school. We figured that 50-70 k for each child would be enough for at least undergrad school . Given my older daughter was a good student was getting good grades and scholarship too, it is helped tremendously. Before ending contribution we were dollar cost averaging every month twice a month since they were born and it’s wasn’t that hard to do. The key was starting contributing as early as possible. So, for us we had total after all this years 60-65K for each child in college funds. Partially my older daughter was getting small student loan. By the time she graduates this year she will have around 11k in student loan . It’s no big deal.
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel
HasHas
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by HasHas »

Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:58 pm I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
We actually stopped contributing into college funds for our kids when they were in last grades at High school. We figured that 50-70 k for each child would be enough for at least undergrad school . Given my older daughter was a good student was getting good grades and scholarship too, it is helped tremendously. Before ending contribution we were dollar cost averaging every month twice a month since they were born and it’s wasn’t that hard to do. The key was starting contributing as early as possible. So, for us we had total after all this years 60-65K for each child in college funds. Partially my older daughter was getting small student loan. By the time she graduates this year she will have around 11k in student loan . It’s no big deal.
Congratulations on the job well done and thank you for sharing your experience.
Ed 2
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Ed 2 »

HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:15 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:58 pm I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
We actually stopped contributing into college funds for our kids when they were in last grades at High school. We figured that 50-70 k for each child would be enough for at least undergrad school . Given my older daughter was a good student was getting good grades and scholarship too, it is helped tremendously. Before ending contribution we were dollar cost averaging every month twice a month since they were born and it’s wasn’t that hard to do. The key was starting contributing as early as possible. So, for us we had total after all this years 60-65K for each child in college funds. Partially my older daughter was getting small student loan. By the time she graduates this year she will have around 11k in student loan . It’s no big deal.
Congratulations on the job well done and thank you for sharing your experience.
Thank you. P. S. Daughter attends university of California. It’s not a cheap school and yet we made it. So, don’t worked up that you need to have huge college account.
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel
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Free to Choose
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Free to Choose »

My children are in their last year of undergrad. It worked out very well. I understood from the time they were born that getting any financial aid was not possible, no matter what school they attended. At the time, 529s were just created and could have been repealed/etc in ~2010. I thought UGMAs provided more flexibility and options. This is what I did for college savings:

1. Started monthly investing in Vanguard's Total Stock (60%) and Total International (40%) in UGMAs.

2. Continued UGMA contributions through the years until about 75% of expected college expenses were reached. This included expected growth rate of funds. I paid very little tax because of the efficiency of the funds.

3. I should have Tax Gained Harvested in the early years up to the Kiddie tax thresholds. I missed this optimization step.

4. At about Junior year in high school, I opened 529 plans and invested the ~25% of remaining college expenses. I tried to spread it out each year up to the Sate's tax deduction limit.

5. When college expenses started, I would take out enough of the UGMA to to top of the children's' $0 tax threshold. There was about $20k in capital gains that were not taxed. I paid the college expenses and excess money went into Vanguard Total Bond of the UGMA account. I tried to be at a 50/50 stocks/bonds, including the 529 plan. The children were providing more than 50% of their support. This allowed them to fill out their own tax return and get one of the three college tax credits. My AGI was too high to to get any college tax credit myself.

6. The children were able to receive all of the COVID stimulus money.

7. When my 529s depleted, I had the children take their UGMA/brokerage money and create their own 529s. They got the State tax credit. An easy and guaranteed return of ~4%. The State looks at net of contributions and withdrawals; therefore, they left in enough each year to claim the full tax credit. The money went into a Stable Value fund.

8. After this last year, they will have $5-$10k in their own brokerage account at Vanguard to use as they wish. The total cost for school has been ~$250k.

I don't know if I would use a UGMA again. I did not spend any time thinking about the 2001 crash or the 2008 crash or any other early crashes/dips. I just kept contributing automatically. As the children approached college, I did worry about being 100% stock. That is why the 529 was started and I put it all in bonds. I also could rely on other savings to cover any short fall. The strategy began with the goal of being disciplined in saving for college and to save on taxes. Having a balance between the UGMA and 529 created more tax savings opportunities.
HasHas
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by HasHas »

Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:18 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:15 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:58 pm I have been holding 529 accounts since my daughter’s were born. Since day 1. We had two educational accounts for each of our daughter’s . One Coverdell and other 529. In Coverdell we had 100% at Wellington funds and 529 at the most aggressive age based options. We never changed any allocation up until they went to college . During college time I withdrew some portion into just cash funds but the rest left along. Cash part was intended to pay for college expenses without touching equity portion. Now we having “ problem “ that is one of our daughter’s going to graduate this year and yet she has lots of money in 529 account for her kids, for the future perhaps.
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
We actually stopped contributing into college funds for our kids when they were in last grades at High school. We figured that 50-70 k for each child would be enough for at least undergrad school . Given my older daughter was a good student was getting good grades and scholarship too, it is helped tremendously. Before ending contribution we were dollar cost averaging every month twice a month since they were born and it’s wasn’t that hard to do. The key was starting contributing as early as possible. So, for us we had total after all this years 60-65K for each child in college funds. Partially my older daughter was getting small student loan. By the time she graduates this year she will have around 11k in student loan . It’s no big deal.
Congratulations on the job well done and thank you for sharing your experience.
Thank you. P. S. Daughter attends university of California. It’s not a cheap school and yet we made it. So, don’t worked up that you need to have huge college account.
Thanks for sharing this information about the school. I was meaning to ask but then hesitated because I did not want to hijack OP's thread. We are in VA and our planning is based on our flagship (Univ. of Virginia). I just checked their undergraduate cost of attendance for the 2021-22 academic year and it is shown to be roughly $40K per year for the instate students. The link is below and I checked for "School of Engineering and Life Sciences" just to get a data point:
UVA - Estimated Undergraduate Cost of Attendance: 2021-2022 Academic Year

Just for comparison, I checked Cal Berkeley and it is also around $40K per year. Here is the link:
Cal Berkeley - Estimated Undergraduate Cost of Attendance

What am I missing? Are these numbers a bit inflated or did your children offset their costs by working through school?

Thank you once again for sharing your experience. Such inputs are very useful for those of us who are just starting their journey.
Ed 2
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Ed 2 »

HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:43 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:18 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:15 pm
Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:11 pm
HasHas wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 1:02 pm
That's great. How did you plan your 529 contributions? Did you have some final number in mind and stopped once you hit that?
We actually stopped contributing into college funds for our kids when they were in last grades at High school. We figured that 50-70 k for each child would be enough for at least undergrad school . Given my older daughter was a good student was getting good grades and scholarship too, it is helped tremendously. Before ending contribution we were dollar cost averaging every month twice a month since they were born and it’s wasn’t that hard to do. The key was starting contributing as early as possible. So, for us we had total after all this years 60-65K for each child in college funds. Partially my older daughter was getting small student loan. By the time she graduates this year she will have around 11k in student loan . It’s no big deal.
Congratulations on the job well done and thank you for sharing your experience.
Thank you. P. S. Daughter attends university of California. It’s not a cheap school and yet we made it. So, don’t worked up that you need to have huge college account.
Thanks for sharing this information about the school. I was meaning to ask but then hesitated because I did not want to hijack OP's thread. We are in VA and our planning is based on our flagship (Univ. of Virginia). I just checked their undergraduate cost of attendance for the 2021-22 academic year and it is shown to be roughly $40K per year for the instate students. The link is below and I checked for "School of Engineering and Life Sciences" just to get a data point:
UVA - Estimated Undergraduate Cost of Attendance: 2021-2022 Academic Year

Just for comparison, I checked Cal Berkeley and it is also around $40K per year. Here is the link:
Cal Berkeley - Estimated Undergraduate Cost of Attendance

What am I missing? Are these numbers a bit inflated or did your children offset their costs by working through school?

Thank you once again for sharing your experience. Such inputs are very useful for those of us who are just starting their journey.
The prices online are not written on the stone. Our school stated 70k a year and yet we paid less what we expected. There are many discounts schools offer like financial aid . That is the reason my daughter was taking partial loans.
"The fund industry doesn't have a lot of heroes, but he (Bogle) is one of them," Russ Kinnel
HasHas
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by HasHas »

Ed 2 wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 2:04 pm The prices online are not written on the stone. Our school stated 70k a year and yet we paid less what we expected. There are many discounts schools offer like financial aid . That is the reason my daughter was taking partial loans.
Thanks, this is very good to know!
ChrisRx
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by ChrisRx »

I do:

50% total stock market
50% target date fund
Nohbdy
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by Nohbdy »

aeaiaea wrote: Fri Jul 23, 2021 9:33 am Thanks for all the thoughts/opinions. For those that don't use target date enrollment funds, what kind of stock-bond mix do you generally employ at the various time frames prior to enrollment. Curious to know whether folks generally pick less conservative mixes than Vanguard employs at the same time frames.
Hello. We use ESAs, but I think for this question it is the same, although iirc 529 has higher expense ratios and lesser funds available.

I found this string very helpful: viewtopic.php?t=211302

I had my ESAs in a target retirement mutual fund, but since college is such a brief drawdown period when compared to retirement I started feeling that the risk exposure was not ramping down quickly enough. So I switched to low fee index funds for stocks and ETFs for bonds.

Currently we are 5 years from college, and sitting around 42% s&p, 32% bonds (agg), 11% intermediate treasuries, and 15% intnl stocks. Every month I buy more bonds than stocks, ramping down stock exposure by around .7%-.8% every month. I’m planning to reduce treasury duration when we get closer.
waterlife
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by waterlife »

I've been 100% equity with Utah, but have a few savings bonds that could help. I recall the White Coat Investor saying in a podcast that there are many ways to pay for college, which makes taking bigger risks saving in this area OK for him.
fedworker2021
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by fedworker2021 »

Moondawg wrote: Sat Jul 24, 2021 12:48 pm NYSaves has similar risked-based portfolios like the other plans mentioned. My child is 2 years old and is invested in the "Aggressive Growth Portfolio" made up of:

Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund 60%
Vanguard Total International Stock Index Fund 40%
Same plan here for my 3 year old and 6 month old…
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ClevrChico
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Re: 529 Plan Portfolios

Post by ClevrChico »

I contribute to the "growth" target/age based portfolio. The plan is to use this first.

My spouse contributes to the "aggressive growth" target/age based portfolio. The plan is to use this after my account is exhausted. This account will have glided to more of a conservative AA then.

That seems to be a way to arbitrage for more growth. The funds are justifiably still conservative, even in growth tracks.
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