Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

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Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

I completed this transaction over the phone with a Fidelity representative, and the conversation was recorded. When I called today I was told that the matter needed to be escalated to a supervisor, who would review the phone call and get back to me. I asked if they would share the recording with me and was told no, that it was "proprietary." My question: Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Last edited by Godot on Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by ResearchMed »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Gaston »

I don’t with Fidelity or Vanguard, as I’ve never had a problem with either of them. I do, however, record conversations with insurance companies, where past experience has not been as favorable.

I don’t know if it does any good, but when they say “This call is being recorded”, it makes me feel good to say “And I am recording the call too”.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
My state is one party consent for phone calls. I agree, why wouldn't they share the call with one of their own customers, especially if they are basing a decision involving money on the call.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

Gaston wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:12 pm I don’t with Fidelity or Vanguard, as I’ve never had a problem with either of them. I do, however, record conversations with insurance companies, where past experience has not been as favorable.

I don’t know if it does any good, but when they say “This call is being recorded”, it makes me feel good to say “And I am recording the call too”.
Word, Gaston. I've done that in the past, but only as a bluff.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Chuckles960 »

I just had a similar issue. (a) Fidelity phone rep said the rollover from IRA to 403(b) I wanted to make was not permitted (b) After days of 'research' at my insistence, he called back and acknowledged I was right, it was permitted (c) When the money was received, someone else decided it was not permitted and sent it back to the Fidelity IRA

I spent hours on the phone and it was nearly a month between (a) and (c). I would love to have the audio record. I've had such good service from Fidelity that it never occurred to me to record this.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by pkcrafter »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by neurosphere »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.
Interesting question here. Can the other party record the call with your permission (e.g. as per terms of service) but then NOT give you consent to record the call yourself and also not agree to provide the recording to you? I would think it's implied consent if one party is recording the call that the other party can do the same? IANAL either. :D

Neurosphere

And as long as I'm speculating, another silly question. What if I'm a professional stenographer and type out every word as we go and create an on the fly transcript? What if I run the call through voice recognition software to make a transcription but don't actually save the audio file? What if I record only my end of the call (e.g. I have a home security system recording audio and video so that it captures my voice when I talk). What if I have the same security system but I put the other caller on speaker phone and that both ends of the call are "inadvertently" recorded. Hmmm. So many legal questions! :D
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Makefile »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.
Sounds annoying. I wonder if the issue is that the plan, contrary to what the rep said, doesn't actually allow for anything other than a proportional withdrawal. I've read on here that some plans (TSP?) even force you to withdraw proportionally between the traditional and Roth components.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by AnEngineer »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
If they tell you that they're recording (as required in two party consent states), then you can too, as everyone knows that they're being recorded.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by ResearchMed »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:58 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.
Interesting question here. Can the other party record the call with your permission (e.g. as per terms of service) but then NOT give you consent to record the call yourself and also not agree to provide the recording to you? I would think it's implied consent if one party is recording the call that the other party can do the same? IANAL either. :D

Neurosphere

And as long as I'm speculating, another silly question. What if I'm a professional stenographer and type out every word as we go and create an on the fly transcript? What if I run the call through voice recognition software to make a transcription but don't actually save the audio file? What if I record only my end of the call (e.g. I have a home security system recording audio and video so that it captures my voice when I talk). What if I have the same security system but I put the other caller on speaker phone and that both ends of the call are "inadvertently" recorded. Hmmm. So many legal questions! :D
If "recording" is illegal, then... it's illegal, in my non-expert opinion.

But following your scenarios, while you transcribe (and I DO this a lot, scribbling away, so that I do have verbatim phrases, etc., on the same paper that I just wrote down the time and the name or number of the phone rep)... you or someone else could be transcribing the other party's speakerphone words, hmmm?

All I know is that a few times when I repeated some key verbatim phrases, things changed a bit on the other end of a subsequent call. Did they already have the actual transcript of the entire call? I doubt they'd bother to do that for each early complaint or such, so I'm not sure how to explain why sometimes the rep or a supervisor pays such attention.

Also, we *have* had supervisors sometimes listen to their reps' calls, call us back, and apologize or fix things.

I also know that with one of the major financial vendors discussed here, our Employer needed to get involved in a very serious problem. THEY got the recordings! However, nope, neither of them (Employer or financial vendor) would let us listen.
However, it apparently totally supported what we had claimed, and also caught a few reps lying outright.
Not good.
But why could *we* not listen or have copies? (Or without any legal action, anyway?)
Odd.

RM
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by ResearchMed »

AnEngineer wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
If they tell you that they're recording (as required in two party consent states), then you can too, as everyone knows that they're being recorded.
Really? Is that legally sufficient? I hadn't thought about that!

RM
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by neurosphere »

ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:10 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
If they tell you that they're recording (as required in two party consent states), then you can too, as everyone knows that they're being recorded.
Really? Is that legally sufficient? I hadn't thought about that!

RM
I mean, it DOES seem logical. Or imagine I call Vanguard or another business and they inform me we're on a recorded line, and I inform them I'm recording as well. If they then say I do not have permission to also record...hmmm...not a company I want to do business with! :shock:
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

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Rollovers from company plans often cannot be initiated by the receiving institution.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:51 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

Paul:

1. It was initiated by TIAA, but I received a package from Fido telling me that an EFT would be a tax event, so I called it in.
2. Am moving what bond funds I can to TIAA, for TIAA Traditional @ 3% +. SPAXX was formerly in bonds.
3. I realize this, but being out of FXAIX cost me during the time out of the market. Not a lot, but something nonetheless. Fido is sending me physical check.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:58 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.
Interesting question here. Can the other party record the call with your permission (e.g. as per terms of service) but then NOT give you consent to record the call yourself and also not agree to provide the recording to you? I would think it's implied consent if one party is recording the call that the other party can do the same? IANAL either. :D

Neurosphere

And as long as I'm speculating, another silly question. What if I'm a professional stenographer and type out every word as we go and create an on the fly transcript? What if I run the call through voice recognition software to make a transcription but don't actually save the audio file? What if I record only my end of the call (e.g. I have a home security system recording audio and video so that it captures my voice when I talk). What if I have the same security system but I put the other caller on speaker phone and that both ends of the call are "inadvertently" recorded. Hmmm. So many legal questions! :D
Most states (roughly 40) have one-party consent laws, with slight variations. For example, I live in Oregon, which is one party for electronic communications, but two party for in-person conversations.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by neurosphere »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:24 pm Most states (roughly 40) have one-party consent laws, with slight variations. For example, I live in Oregon, which is one party for electronic communications, but two party for in-person conversations.
I was assuming a two-party electronic consent state. If there is only one-party consent, the other party (i.e. the financial institution) can't object or rather they don't need to be told in the first place. :wink:
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

Makefile wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:00 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.
Sounds annoying. I wonder if the issue is that the plan, contrary to what the rep said, doesn't actually allow for anything other than a proportional withdrawal. I've read on here that some plans (TSP?) even force you to withdraw proportionally between the traditional and Roth components.
I thought about this, but if this were the case it would still be Fido's mistake by not telling me. I mean the rep confirmed that she would be withdrawing only from SPAXX. If only proportional were allowed I would not have done it.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by AnEngineer »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:13 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:10 pm
AnEngineer wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
If they tell you that they're recording (as required in two party consent states), then you can too, as everyone knows that they're being recorded.
Really? Is that legally sufficient? I hadn't thought about that!

RM
I mean, it DOES seem logical. Or imagine I call Vanguard or another business and they inform me we're on a recorded line, and I inform them I'm recording as well. If they then say I do not have permission to also record...hmmm...not a company I want to do business with! :shock:
Not all states require consent. In at least some cases, being informed is sufficient. IANAL, do your own research on specifics.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by ResearchMed »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:29 pm
Makefile wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:00 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.
Sounds annoying. I wonder if the issue is that the plan, contrary to what the rep said, doesn't actually allow for anything other than a proportional withdrawal. I've read on here that some plans (TSP?) even force you to withdraw proportionally between the traditional and Roth components.
I thought about this, but if this were the case it would still be Fido's mistake by not telling me.
Yes, that would be a mistake to tell you they'd do it A way, but really couldn't... :shock:

At TIAA, I found out (or so it was claimed...?) that if one has automatic RMD's taken, it MUST be proportional. However, if I make the effort specifically to call and ask for an RMD to be taken, I can specify how much from which holding, etc.

That may have been disclosed when I set up the automated RMD for the first time in 2020.
I was surprised that it was proportional, but that may have been "on me".

Nevertheless, I had received an email about the new rules that meant RMD's did not have to be taken for 2020, and we had until <date/timing> to notify TIAA.

So about a week or two before that deadline, I called to say, "great, thanks, I don't want the RMD this year".
HONK: "Too late! It was already processed" - and in my case, it was to send all of it to the IRS as extra withholding. :annoyed

Fortunately, we've got a terrific WMA (wealth management agent or something like that).
I forwarded the emailed notice of the deadline, and he took care of having it all reversed.
But not all reps are, uh, helpful... or competent...

RM
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Lionel Hutz »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:18 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:51 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

Paul:

1. It was initiated by TIAA, but I received a package from Fido telling me that an EFT would be a tax event, so I called it in.
2. Am moving what bond funds I can to TIAA, for TIAA Traditional @ 3% +. SPAXX was formerly in bonds.
3. I realize this, but being out of FXAIX cost me during the time out of the market. Not a lot, but something nonetheless. Fido is sending me physical check.
#1 is not accurate. That’s the case with IRAs, but retirement plans are the inverse. OP was correct to contact Fido to request they process a rollover to TIAA; TIAA has no authority to request it.

OP, some thoughts on the transaction: many retirement plans offer “proportional” only transactions, specifically disallowing the choosing of specific funds. Not saying that’s definitely the case, but it’s probable, and if so it’s frustrating the rep didn’t simply confirm this originally.

If this proportional rule is the case, I see you have 2 options:
First you were technically promised you something that violated the plan and was not processed as you understood it. therefore is an invalid transaction, so they could reverse it entirely.
Second, if no matter what you still wish to perform the rollover, you’ll sadly just have to deal with the proportional sale, and perhaps rebalance afterwards.

*If the plan only allows proportional, you definitely will not be able to have them adjust it to only distributed from the one fund. Misinformation or not, they can’t violate the plan document.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Trader Joe »

AnEngineer wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:04 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.

Interesting question. I'm not sure why they should decline to give permission, but somehow... I suspect they would. It would be nice to be wrong here!

RM
If they tell you that they're recording (as required in two party consent states), then you can too, as everyone knows that they're being recorded.
This is 100% correct.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

Lionel Hutz wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:21 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:18 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:51 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

Paul:

1. It was initiated by TIAA, but I received a package from Fido telling me that an EFT would be a tax event, so I called it in.
2. Am moving what bond funds I can to TIAA, for TIAA Traditional @ 3% +. SPAXX was formerly in bonds.
3. I realize this, but being out of FXAIX cost me during the time out of the market. Not a lot, but something nonetheless. Fido is sending me physical check.
#1 is not accurate. That’s the case with IRAs, but retirement plans are the inverse. OP was correct to contact Fido to request they process a rollover to TIAA; TIAA has no authority to request it.

OP, some thoughts on the transaction: many retirement plans offer “proportional” only transactions, specifically disallowing the choosing of specific funds. Not saying that’s definitely the case, but it’s probable, and if so it’s frustrating the rep didn’t simply confirm this originally.

If this proportional rule is the case, I see you have 2 options:
First you were technically promised you something that violated the plan and was not processed as you understood it. therefore is an invalid transaction, so they could reverse it entirely.
Second, if no matter what you still wish to perform the rollover, you’ll sadly just have to deal with the proportional sale, and perhaps rebalance afterwards.

*If the plan only allows proportional, you definitely will not be able to have them adjust it to only distributed from the one fund. Misinformation or not, they can’t violate the plan document.
Lionel: I spoke with TIAA rep, completed online rollover form, and TIAA sent the form to Fidelity. Fidelity then mailed the form to me saying they could not process it and to call them, which is what I did. However, I agree with you that TIAA likely didn't have the authority to request it. But don't get me going on TIAA reps. Different rep, different interpretations of rules.

Not saying that’s definitely the case, but it’s probable, and if so it’s frustrating the rep didn’t simply confirm this originally.

Agreed. Thank you for your insights. I wouldn't mind if they just reversed the trade, assuming they would also credit my account the (small) amount that FXAIX has risen since the transaction. I'll report back once I hear from Fido. However, If they negate the trade and I'm out a few grand, then we have some problems.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by pkcrafter »

Lionel Hutz wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:21 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:18 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:51 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

Paul:

1. It was initiated by TIAA, but I received a package from Fido telling me that an EFT would be a tax event, so I called it in.
2. Am moving what bond funds I can to TIAA, for TIAA Traditional @ 3% +. SPAXX was formerly in bonds.
3. I realize this, but being out of FXAIX cost me during the time out of the market. Not a lot, but something nonetheless. Fido is sending me physical check.
#1 is not accurate. That’s the case with IRAs, but retirement plans are the inverse. OP was correct to contact Fido to request they process a rollover to TIAA; TIAA has no authority to request it.

From Godot:
It was initiated by TIAA
Maybe that was a problem?

Paul
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 10:19 pm
Lionel Hutz wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 9:21 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:18 pm
pkcrafter wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:51 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm Last week I did a partial rollover from one of my 403(b) accounts at Fidelity to one of my 403(b) accounts at TIAA, specifically telling the rep to liquidate my money market position (SPAXX) and not touch the S&P position (FXAIX).

Today I log into the account and see that Fidelity did a "proportional withdrawal" from both positions, rather than taking all of the monies from SPAXX. Their mistake.

1. First thing--the transfer should have been initiated by the receiving company.
2. Why didn't you transfer the entire account? This isn't important, I just wondered why you left some at Fidelity.
3. You didn't say how much was transferred, but you can change what's in each of the 403B, so you could change SPAXX at Fidelity back to FXAIX. And at TIAA, I assume everything that was transferred is now in cash, so you can now put the cash in anything you want.

Paul

Paul:

1. It was initiated by TIAA, but I received a package from Fido telling me that an EFT would be a tax event, so I called it in.
2. Am moving what bond funds I can to TIAA, for TIAA Traditional @ 3% +. SPAXX was formerly in bonds.
3. I realize this, but being out of FXAIX cost me during the time out of the market. Not a lot, but something nonetheless. Fido is sending me physical check.
#1 is not accurate. That’s the case with IRAs, but retirement plans are the inverse. OP was correct to contact Fido to request they process a rollover to TIAA; TIAA has no authority to request it.

From Godot:
It was initiated by TIAA
Maybe that was a problem?

Paul
Perhaps, but it is what Fido rep told me to do.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by SxSW »

Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:02 pm I asked if they would share the recording with me and was told no, that it was "proprietary." My question: Does anyone record their convos with brokerage reps as backup? I'm thinking I will do this going forward, even though I almost never do transactions by phone.
Vanguard won't allow you to record your calls, and they won't share their recording without a subpoena.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by F150HD »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:26 pm
Godot wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 8:24 pm Most states (roughly 40) have one-party consent laws, with slight variations. For example, I live in Oregon, which is one party for electronic communications, but two party for in-person conversations.
I was assuming a two-party electronic consent state. If there is only one-party consent, the other party (i.e. the financial institution) can't object or rather they don't need to be told in the first place. :wink:
if you are in a different state then the company you call, which states law dictates the consent? the one you call from? or the one the rep is in? (same ? for personal calls)
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by NAVigator »

After being on hold for a significant time, I am always tempted say "I am recording this call for training purposes."
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

It seems as though Florida is a two-party consent state.

While I have never recorded a phone call, I do sometimes log the time if I am hearing something that strikes me as mistaken, or even deliberately false when dealing with a service supplier. All I have to do is notice the time as measured continuously by my phone handset or my cell phone.
I use ooma as my "land-line" service and ooma provides a call log, giving number called and time and duration of the call.

Fortunately, I have rarely needed to have the conversation listened to by escalation.

My preferred communication with service providers is via email. At least an easy method to examine what. I have discussed, and the answer to my questions concerning an issue.

Using a chat session is also a good method to capture such discussions as well.

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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

Just wanted to provide an update to the situation. After a number of calls (from me) Fidelity finally acknowledged that they screwed up and did a proportional withdrawal from both positions for the rollover, rather than the one position I specified over the phone. As a result, part of my FXAIX position was out of the market for a little over a week, so it will cost Fidelity about 1k for their mistake. It took me a few attempts at direct questioning before the rep (who identified himself as a "director") admitted that it was Fido's mistake. When I asked when the monies will be added back to the account, he replied, "these things can take some time." I recorded the conversation.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Lionel Hutz »

Good news that it seems the plan *does offer specific fund choice and doesn’t force pro rata. So the rep was correct but somehow erred in the execution.

Ultimately they should be able to fix this internally without you having to return any funds. The amount you received is accurate, they just need to go back and change which funds were sold. Might take time but the books should be corrected based on what you requested.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by CedarWaxWing »

neurosphere wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:58 pm
ResearchMed wrote: Mon Jun 28, 2021 7:08 pm Does your state allow recording of phone calls with the permission of only one party (you) and not both parties (includes the called party)?

If so, that should be legal, but IANAL.

However, if you need the permission of both parties, then I'm not sure how you could use that recording without risk.
Interesting question here. Can the other party record the call with your permission (e.g. as per terms of service) but then NOT give you consent to record the call yourself and also not agree to provide the recording to you? I would think it's implied consent if one party is recording the call that the other party can do the same? IANAL either. :D

Neurosphere

I have been told that although they are recording the call, they will hang up if I tell them I want to record the call. My approach to this is to simply say "this call is being recorded, right?" And I get that on the recording. (When my car was hit and run while parked... and I was on the phone with their insurance company). Frankly, it would seem that if we have a REAL court worthy situation... they can have their recording subpoenaed, I assume.
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by riverant »

Godot wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:26 pm Just wanted to provide an update to the situation. After a number of calls (from me) Fidelity finally acknowledged that they screwed up and did a proportional withdrawal from both positions for the rollover, rather than the one position I specified over the phone. As a result, part of my FXAIX position was out of the market for a little over a week, so it will cost Fidelity about 1k for their mistake. It took me a few attempts at direct questioning before the rep (who identified himself as a "director") admitted that it was Fido's mistake. When I asked when the monies will be added back to the account, he replied, "these things can take some time." I recorded the conversation.
To confirm, Fido is reimbursing you for investment gains that occurred when you were out of the market (due to their mistake)? That seems very unusual. In this case it works, what would happen if the market had crashed?
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Re: Recording the recorder: Fidelity and transaction mistakes

Post by Godot »

TJat wrote: Sat Dec 04, 2021 2:15 pm
Godot wrote: Fri Jul 02, 2021 4:26 pm Just wanted to provide an update to the situation. After a number of calls (from me) Fidelity finally acknowledged that they screwed up and did a proportional withdrawal from both positions for the rollover, rather than the one position I specified over the phone. As a result, part of my FXAIX position was out of the market for a little over a week, so it will cost Fidelity about 1k for their mistake. It took me a few attempts at direct questioning before the rep (who identified himself as a "director") admitted that it was Fido's mistake. When I asked when the monies will be added back to the account, he replied, "these things can take some time." I recorded the conversation.
To confirm, Fido is reimbursing you for investment gains that occurred when you were out of the market (due to their mistake)? That seems very unusual. In this case it works, what would happen if the market had crashed?
A. Correct. B. I would not have questioned the withdrawal.
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