How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

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Vtsax100
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Vtsax100 »

moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 10:27 am All three of them lost their parents at a fairly early age so got essentially no advice from them. Their only advice is coming from EJ as far as I know. They are all very naïve regarding investing. When most people I talk with say run from EJ as fast as you can I find it interesting that a few on here say its none of my business to give some advice about where to park their money for the next 30 years when it is clear that their present path may cost them dearly in the long run. I'll give them my advice, give them some reading material and a spreadsheet so they can see the theoretical cost of doing business with EJ and let them go on their merry way.
You see the funny thing is that most young people don’t want advise. One of life’s great mysteries. Just think what could be. We’ve all been there.
Dottie57
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Dottie57 »

tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm
123 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:20 am No one needs to talk to Edward Jones at all. It's the relative's money. They simply need to contact a new broker, like Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity and they will "pull" the account from Edward Jones. It's just business. I think you can do it all with clicks these days.
As I've mentioned in other threads, this is not the case with every managed account. In my case both Fidelity and Vanguard punted when I asked for help moving funds from Wells Fargo. The only person who could initiate transactions was the broker. Not me (even the web interface was "read-only"), not the brokerage back-office. Maybe if enough money was involved it would have been a different story, but for example being Flagship at Vanguard definitely didn't make a dent in them saying there was nothing they could do to help move the funds.
I moved my iras and taxable to fidelity. I was a walk in who wanted help . I was assigned an advisor. He helped me use the fidelity web interface to move the assets. I did need an electronic version of the most recent account statements. Fidelity needed the statements before doing the transfer. I needed the help because the IRAs were held at a third party and how to handle that was a bit more difficult.

If all you do is call fidelity, I can see why they would not want to help for legal reasons. They would not be able to verify your identity.
BigJohn
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by BigJohn »

goingup wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:55 am William Berstein's If You Can is suggested reading for Millenials http://efficientfrontier.com/ef/0adhoc/ifyoucan.pdf
A great suggestion, I gave a copy to all my kids, nieces and nephews. Give them this and then....

If they read it and are convinced, great, Help them move the accounts.

If they read it and are not convinced, leave it alone, pushing young adults too hard can only end badly for your relationship.

If they don’t bother to read it, they probably need an advisors anyway so leave it alone in this case as well.
"The greatest enemy of a good plan is the dream of a perfect plan" - Carl Von Clausewitz
Dottie57
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Dottie57 »

Op, I understand the desire to help but have learned to leave it alone. My brother has all of his funds in a Stable value fund ... it makes me want to grab and shake him. His wife has the bulk of her retirement funds in company stock. Aieeee!

I can’t change them as they act deaf when I try to talk about money. So I am done.
Jablean
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Jablean »

My mom loved her advisor, he always made her money. She tried so hard to get me to go to him and stop doing things myself. My boss at my first job pushed really hard for me to do an IRA, I probably did after about 5 years in, even did the company retirement investment the last 2 years (barely made it 2 months past the 10 year vesting period). Now, 30 years later, sure I see what I "should" have done. But intellectually I knew back then too and still didn't do it. They have to want to learn and they are young enough they'll get lots of chances.
Stubbie
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Stubbie »

A very close friend of mine is a lifelong EJ client. He loves working with his advisor and firmly believes the advisor works in my friend's best interests. Over the years we have occasionally discussed our investments. He has no idea what exactly he is is invested in and what his fees are. I have shown him how easy it is to manage your own investments with Vanguard or Fidelity using a few simple index funds. He doesn't care. He is too uncomfortable doing it himself. He would rather pay the exorbitant EJ fees and trust that his advisor will take care of him. He happily goes about his life and doesn't worry about his investments. Would he have a lot more money if he followed Boglehead principles? Of course. Does he care? I'm sure he doesn't realize how much all of this has cost him, but as long as there is "enough" left over for him to enjoy his lifestyle, he doesn't care at all.
It seems like a huge waste to me but being a Boglehead would make him a miserable nervous wreck about money,
Outer Marker
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Outer Marker »

I'd refer them to the Vanguard "why costs matter" article and leave it to them.

https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... t-of-costs

As others have said, Vanguard will handle the transfer if that's what they decide to do.
Jags4186
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Jags4186 »

For the life of me I don’t know why you’d get involved with this. I think the absolute most you should do is tell them that EJ has high fees and they may want to look into Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity. And that’s about as far as I’d take it unless they asked for more help.

Even when relatives ask for my help, I talk about what I do and not what they should do. Let them make their own decisions and mistakes.
Outer Marker
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Outer Marker »

Jags4186 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:26 am For the life of me I don’t know why you’d get involved with this. I think the absolute most you should do is tell them that EJ has high fees and they may want to look into Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity. And that’s about as far as I’d take it unless they asked for more help.

Even when relatives ask for my help, I talk about what I do and not what they should do. Let them make their own decisions and mistakes.
I don't think this is meddling. I sure wish a relative had pointed out to me the power of indexing and low costs early on. My parents were terrible at investing. Classic buy high, sell low. Starting out, I relied on stock tips and hot fund recommendations from co-workers. Needless to say, that was a costly learning curve.
tibbitts
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by tibbitts »

Dottie57 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 5:05 pm
tibbitts wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 12:45 pm
123 wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:20 am No one needs to talk to Edward Jones at all. It's the relative's money. They simply need to contact a new broker, like Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity and they will "pull" the account from Edward Jones. It's just business. I think you can do it all with clicks these days.
As I've mentioned in other threads, this is not the case with every managed account. In my case both Fidelity and Vanguard punted when I asked for help moving funds from Wells Fargo. The only person who could initiate transactions was the broker. Not me (even the web interface was "read-only"), not the brokerage back-office. Maybe if enough money was involved it would have been a different story, but for example being Flagship at Vanguard definitely didn't make a dent in them saying there was nothing they could do to help move the funds.
I moved my iras and taxable to fidelity. I was a walk in who wanted help . I was assigned an advisor. He helped me use the fidelity web interface to move the assets. I did need an electronic version of the most recent account statements. Fidelity needed the statements before doing the transfer. I needed the help because the IRAs were held at a third party and how to handle that was a bit more difficult.

If all you do is call fidelity, I can see why they would not want to help for legal reasons. They would not be able to verify your identity.
Fidelity and Vanguard both knew who I was because I was an existing long-standing customer. I had the electronic version of my statements. But you're missing the point. As both Vanguard and Fidelity explained to me, they couldn't help in situation where the only person with transactional authority on the account was the adviser. Not me, not someone in a back office at Wells Fargo. Obviously at some executive level WF management would have authority over the account, but the culture (and except for upper management, the required procedure) was for any transactions to be initiated by the broker. Apparently the back office people at Vanguard and Fidelity have access to the back office people at WF, not to executive-level employees who can override procedures. Even I didn't have transaction authority on my own account, so for example I couldn't exchange one fund for another. within my WF account. I couldn't call an 800 number at WF and request to move money from one of my WF investments to another (I know - I tried and failed.) That's not the case with every WF or full-service brokerage account. I was familiar with another full-service brokerage (before the internet era), and while I had an adviser, I could call the corporate office and make any changes I wanted. That was not the case with this WF account and the way it was set up. I could have added the capability for me to do my own transactions - but again, I could only do that by the broker approving and submitting that request. Ultimately the adviser didn't do what I wanted, so I had to appeal to another WF adviser in another region, who was nice enough to run the request up through his regional management, over to the other region manager, down to the broker's supervisor, and then... back to the broker. Eventually I was assigned another broker/adviser and the transactions took place. But neither Vanguard or Fidelity was going to to do that for me. So we really shouldn't be telling people to just have their new institution of choice "pull" the money, because it absolutely does not always work.

An unrelated point is that many of us don't live near a Fidelity office, so it's not like we can easily just drop in and talk to someone. And of course essentially nobody can do that with Vanguard.
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moorso
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by moorso »

I can attest to this from recent first had knowledge. You cant just have them pull accounts from other institutions. Maybe you could in the past but its not the case anymore. I have had to work with Wells Fargo (painful), DWS (a little less painful) and Merrill Lynch (not painful) to move accounts from to Vanguard ( easily the class of the whole bunch).
hnd
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by hnd »

Outer Marker wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:46 am
Jags4186 wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:26 am For the life of me I don’t know why you’d get involved with this. I think the absolute most you should do is tell them that EJ has high fees and they may want to look into Vanguard, Schwab, or Fidelity. And that’s about as far as I’d take it unless they asked for more help.

Even when relatives ask for my help, I talk about what I do and not what they should do. Let them make their own decisions and mistakes.
I don't think this is meddling. I sure wish a relative had pointed out to me the power of indexing and low costs early on. My parents were terrible at investing. Classic buy high, sell low. Starting out, I relied on stock tips and hot fund recommendations from co-workers. Needless to say, that was a costly learning curve.
it depends on how persistent one would be. My FIL would passingly mention he wouldn't do it the way i did it for years. always in passing, and always with a helpful heart. Never in a way that bothered me and eventually I got it.
tibbitts
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by tibbitts »

moorso wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am I can attest to this from recent first had knowledge. You cant just have them pull accounts from other institutions. Maybe you could in the past but its not the case anymore. I have had to work with Wells Fargo (painful), DWS (a little less painful) and Merrill Lynch (not painful) to move accounts from to Vanguard ( easily the class of the whole bunch).
I'm not sure to what extent 2016 counts as "the past." I do suspect my issues were more likely to occur given an account created in the 1970s or early 1980s (and transitioned through several firms that evolved into WF.) Ultimately of course it's your money and you'll get it, but as I said both Vanguard and Fidelity were extremely familiar with my situation and told me there was nothing they could do to assist.

I would encourage people to try to pull funds, but even in 2021 for example, TIAA couldn't pull funds from Vanguard. TIAA has a form to authorize pulling funds from another firm, and it's accepted by some firms, but TIAA was already aware that Vanguard wouldn't accept it, so I had to initiate the transfer myself with Vanguard. That was relatively painless of course, since there was no individual third-party who had to initial the transaction, as with WF.
SxSW
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by SxSW »

Edward Jones may have high fees, but the sad news is that for 90% of investors, it's still an improvement over what they'll do by self-managing. Your typical investor tries to time the market, overreacts to headlines, and takes stock tips from co-workers. You can show them the math, and they might nod and smile politely. Then when their co-worker tells them they can double their money overnight with bitcoin or Tesla, that's where they put their money. When the markets tank, like in 2008 or when the pandemic started, they sell near the bottom. EJ wouldn't be my first recommendation, or even my tenth, but they're still better than self-managing for most people, because most people will absolutely not stay the course with index funds. In other words, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good, or the (barely) adequate, when disaster is the alternative.
SteadyOne
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by SteadyOne »

moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 am
mr_brightside wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:22 am i say this respectfully -- honestly -- it's none of your business

especially if they are not actively seeking your guidance

--------------------------------------------------------------
IF they lose $300,000 in their lifetime it sure is my business. I would be remiss for not trying like hell to make them move out of there.
What if they lose it AFTER listening to your advice and following it?
“Every de­duc­tion is al­lowed as a mat­ter of leg­isla­tive grace.” US Federal Court
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meowcat
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by meowcat »

SteadyOne wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 11:26 am
moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 am
mr_brightside wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:22 am i say this respectfully -- honestly -- it's none of your business

especially if they are not actively seeking your guidance

--------------------------------------------------------------
IF they lose $300,000 in their lifetime it sure is my business. I would be remiss for not trying like hell to make them move out of there.
What if they lose it AFTER listening to your advice and following it?
This is it, exactly. There is no question. When the market tanks, through no fault of your own, you'll be held liable. They might tell you "oh, no, I would never blame you", rest assured, they will. Never recommend, to anyone, ever, what to invest in. I will discuss my strategy, nothing more.
What the bold print givith, the fine print taketh away. | -meowcat
bradinsky
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by bradinsky »

moorso wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 10:08 am I can attest to this from recent first had knowledge. You cant just have them pull accounts from other institutions. Maybe you could in the past but its not the case anymore. I have had to work with Wells Fargo (painful), DWS (a little less painful) and Merrill Lynch (not painful) to move accounts from to Vanguard ( easily the class of the whole bunch).
OP,
Guess what, we moved from EJ to Schwab & it was extremely easy. 4 accounts with over 60 different holdings. The transfer in kind was started at Schwab & moved seamlessly. The few holdings that did not transfer were sold at EJ & the cash was forwarded. We had not verbal contact with the EJ salesman, only one email sent to him about 2 days after the transfer was initiated saying "bye bye". No problems at all & all closing fees were reimbursed by Schwab. Very glad that we left!
lurkman
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by lurkman »

moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 am I have at least two relatives, maybe three in their late 20's and early 30's who have inherited some money and have opened accounts at Edward Jones. This is bothering me and maybe it shouldn't but I really want to convince them to move their investments into Vanguard for the the cost advantages. I tried to show my niece what the difference in final value might be for $100,000 invested over 30 years with a 7% return versus that same amount invested with Edward Jones and the same return. It appears to be over $300,000 difference. And that is based on not adding any money to the account over the years. I am not sure what their management fee is , but think it is about 1.75%.

My niece would most likely have a very difficult time emotionally telling Edward Jones that she wanted her account moved to Vanguard even if she wanted to, and she probably would be easily convinced by the EJ guy to not make that move. I was wondering if there is some mechanism that would allow me to deal with EJ directly without having her go through the process. Something like financial power of attorney or something similar ?

Ask your relatives if they would voluntarily pay 1% or 1.5% higher mortgage rates on their home loans if they had a choice.

You can try pointing out that paying 1.75% in fees can be worse than voluntarily paying a mortgage rate with Lender A that is about 1.5% higher than what you can get with a different Lender B.

Worse because unlike your mortgage balance which reduces over the years (reducing interest dollars in later years), your portfolio would grow over your lifetime and higher fee rates take increasingly larger bites from the AUM fee arrangement.
Balanthalus
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Balanthalus »

Over the past couple of weeks I've had a similar experience with my mother, except I was able to step in before she established a relationship with EJ. She retired last year, and had a 401(k) with her previous employer that had to be rolled over somewhere else under the rules of that plan. She told me during a phone call catching up that a friend of hers liked their EJ rep, and so she made an appointment with that rep. I didn't say anything during the first call because I didn't see it as my business. But it kept eating at me over the next few days until I called back to say that although this was her decision and she'd probably be fine either way, I had some concerns about EJ. She said that she wasn't committed to going with EJ and would be fine going with my recommendation. My father then revealed that he had similar concerns about EJ, but did not raise them because, like me, he did not want to dictate what she did with her money (because they have other assets that should be sufficient to cover their expenses, my father considers her 401(k) to be solely "her" money). I went home over Memorial Day weekend to see them and some other family I hadn't seen in person since Christmas 2019, start the rollover process, and ask some questions to settle on an asset allocation she was comfortable with. As of this week, the funds arrived in her Vanguard IRA and have been invested in the allocation we selected.

I am glad that things turned out the way they did, and she will now be paying around 12 basis points instead of whatever fee EJ would have extracted. That said, I tried to make clear at several points during the process that I did not want to push her into anything, and I would not be offended if she said "thanks, but I'm going to go with EJ." Maybe just as importantly, I tried to prepare myself emotionally for that outcome, and be satisfied if I ended up having done all I could without what I considered an optimal result.

I don't know if my experience necessarily translates into specific concrete advice. Although I will say that being at peace with the possibility that your relatives end up making the "wrong" decision might help in trying to convince them to make the "correct" decision without coming across as controlling or superior.
student
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by student »

Balanthalus wrote: Wed Jun 16, 2021 8:50 pm Over the past couple of weeks I've had a similar experience with my mother, except I was able to step in before she established a relationship with EJ. She retired last year, and had a 401(k) with her previous employer that had to be rolled over somewhere else under the rules of that plan. She told me during a phone call catching up that a friend of hers liked their EJ rep, and so she made an appointment with that rep. I didn't say anything during the first call because I didn't see it as my business. But it kept eating at me over the next few days until I called back to say that although this was her decision and she'd probably be fine either way, I had some concerns about EJ. She said that she wasn't committed to going with EJ and would be fine going with my recommendation. My father then revealed that he had similar concerns about EJ, but did not raise them because, like me, he did not want to dictate what she did with her money (because they have other assets that should be sufficient to cover their expenses, my father considers her 401(k) to be solely "her" money). I went home over Memorial Day weekend to see them and some other family I hadn't seen in person since Christmas 2019, start the rollover process, and ask some questions to settle on an asset allocation she was comfortable with. As of this week, the funds arrived in her Vanguard IRA and have been invested in the allocation we selected.

I am glad that things turned out the way they did, and she will now be paying around 12 basis points instead of whatever fee EJ would have extracted. That said, I tried to make clear at several points during the process that I did not want to push her into anything, and I would not be offended if she said "thanks, but I'm going to go with EJ." Maybe just as importantly, I tried to prepare myself emotionally for that outcome, and be satisfied if I ended up having done all I could without what I considered an optimal result.

I don't know if my experience necessarily translates into specific concrete advice. Although I will say that being at peace with the possibility that your relatives end up making the "wrong" decision might help in trying to convince them to make the "correct" decision without coming across as controlling or superior.
You handled everything perfectly. She is your mom so it is kind of your "duty" to caution her about EJ. What you did is exactly right: I'm just giving you my opinion, it is your decision!
miket29
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by miket29 »

moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:17 am I have at least two relatives, maybe three in their late 20's and early 30's who have inherited some money and have opened accounts at Edward Jones. This is bothering me and maybe it shouldn't but I really want to convince them to move their investments into Vanguard for the the cost advantages.
I can see you have their best interests at heart, but this is slippery ground. I think back to being around that age (and wish I had a time machine to go back!) but even if you see them as inexperienced in personal finance, even if they are in fact inexperienced at personal finance, they probably see themselves as perfectly capable adults who can hire help when needed. So when the EJ rep says "we got this" and they don't have a lot of interest in investing, they're probably happy to let it go and be satisfied they have a "professional" on the job for them.

Before you approach them, I suggest you read the book "Getting More" by Stuart Diamond about negotiating. In one part he writes
It is much more persuasive to let others make the decision, instead of telling them what the decision should be. You want to lead them to where you want them to go, through framing and by being incremental.
And so that is what I suggest for you. Do you know their thoughts and concerns about investing, or have you already decided what's best and just need to "sell" them? Plunging ahead and telling them what to do (even if good advice) before learning what they're thinking and trying to understand the world the way they see it is more likely to raise resistance than agreement. If they're interested then the short & free book by Bernstein that has already been suggested might be useful. It gives them some ideas about investing and primes them towards what could be considered a Boglehead philosophy. If you get them to the point of asking "Uncle vtsax, how do I find low cost index funds and pick a simple AA I can hold for 30+ years?" then you're golden. And if they're happy with their choice of EJ, be glad they haven't decided to plunk it all in bitcoin.
criticalmass
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by criticalmass »

OP,
Before suggesting that your method is better than Edward Jones, what are your professional qualifications?

If you are an amateur, be careful. You may be “right” that EJ is expensive, has limited value to an informed investor, and costs a lot of money in the long run. But there are many more variables than fees. If the market crashes a month after someone follows your advice, you will be blamed for losses in the new account. If they use Vanguard and have trouble with Vanguards IT platform or encounter errors during the transfer or thereafter, you are at fault. If they get a big tax bill and headache due to liquidating the labyrinth of funds that EJ sprinkles each customer into, you will be blamed.

How did you get educated in personal finance? Did someone really come to you and insist you do things “their” way, or did you choose to read and learn over time, while taking action on your own.

The best you can do is pick an article or two or one very good short book, and then convince the relative/friend/associate to read it.
Outer Marker
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Outer Marker »

I don't think OP needs to be an expert or a professional to recommend getting away from EJ high fees. The fundamental point is that "costs matter" and there is no disputing that. OP is not recommending a specific strategy - just avoiding high costs. Very solid advice. If relatives want to pay for professional advice, Vanguard PAS is a much better option than EJ. But, honestly, so is a Vanguard target date or target risk fund, which is the same VG "advice" at less cost.
tibbitts
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by tibbitts »

Outer Marker wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 11:07 am I don't think OP needs to be an expert or a professional to recommend getting away from EJ high fees. The fundamental point is that "costs matter" and there is no disputing that.
There is only "no disputing" that because you've been indoctrinated (err... educated) to understand that investing is different from almost every other field of human endeavor in that experience won't likely get you better results. But you're going up against a lifetime of learning that experience matters. Even on Bogleheads, we often see recommendations for seeking out not just an estate attorney, but one that has extensive experience and qualifications. Estate plans are important, you don't get a do-over, etc. etc. Most people feel that's true with investing, too. Bogleheads have only "overcome" that through a process of education, not just one person with no qualifications claiming "costs matter." Ironically in the past we've even seen discussions of how important elevated education and experience requirements should be financial advisers - thus the threads complaining about being assigned "some kid" as a PAS adviser, for example.
hnd
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by hnd »

I was talking to a guy at work about this topic kind of. he kind of laughed and was like i'll NEVER do that again. he said 10 years ago he's advised his father to get out of whatever he was in and invest in VTSAX and relax. his dad had trailed the total market by a percent or so, prior to fees. his father did. meanwhile his dad's partner (never got remarried) investments remained with the same broker. the results have been pretty bad. His dad's partner's investments are heavily tilted towards tech funds and well we all know how thats gone the past 5 years. so even though he feels like he made sense to his dad initially, the past 5 years have kind of been rough seeing as the portfolio difference is pretty stark. I don't think its really caused an issue between his father and he, he still feels like crap even though over the long term its likely the right choice.
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nedsaid
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by nedsaid »

hnd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:29 pm I was talking to a guy at work about this topic kind of. he kind of laughed and was like i'll NEVER do that again. he said 10 years ago he's advised his father to get out of whatever he was in and invest in VTSAX and relax. his dad had trailed the total market by a percent or so, prior to fees. his father did. meanwhile his dad's partner (never got remarried) investments remained with the same broker. the results have been pretty bad. His dad's partner's investments are heavily tilted towards tech funds and well we all know how thats gone the past 5 years. so even though he feels like he made sense to his dad initially, the past 5 years have kind of been rough seeing as the portfolio difference is pretty stark. I don't think its really caused an issue between his father and he, he still feels like crap even though over the long term its likely the right choice.
Edward Jones could claim it was due to the brilliant execution of their tactical strategies, in reality it could have just been luck. This is why trying to argue a Boglehead vs. a broker approach can be difficult, almost anything can happen in the short term. Longer term, you will see the effect of the fees on performance.

The other difficulty is that Bogleheads are a very small subset of the population, the vast majority of people could benefit from some type of advisory relationship. We underestimate the cluelessness of the majority of people regarding personal finance and investing. Edward Jones and Ameriprise are not at the top of the list where I would send people but at least they will get their clients into a diversified portfolio.

I don't see it as my mission to save the world. I had two family members who had accounts at Edward Jones and they seemed happy with their accounts and their advisor relationship. I gave them my opinion when asked but otherwise have butted out, it really isn't any of my business.

Advisory fees are a drag, even the 0.30% a year that Vanguard charges. Edward Jones, last I looked was charging 1.35% a year for advisory fees and Ameriprise charged 1.20%. The dollars do add up over time but even at that, I still stay that most people would benefit from an advisor. The issue is going to the right people and getting value for your dollars. Bottom line, if you want individual attention, it is going to cost you and more than Bogleheads would like.
A fool and his money are good for business.
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celia
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by celia »

oldfatguy wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:36 am
moorso wrote: Tue Jun 15, 2021 8:26 am
IF they lose $300,000 in their lifetime it sure is my business.
How?
No, it is not your business. You’ll probably be dead in 40 years when they retire and $300,000 will be insignificant after 40 years of inflation and their retirement accounts hold $30 million.

Besides, they are young and need to make a few mistakes with money before they learn anything. EJ is at least better than using the money to buy crypto or a fancy car. Wouldn’t you agree?
hnd
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by hnd »

nedsaid wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:47 pm
hnd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:29 pm I was talking to a guy at work about this topic kind of. he kind of laughed and was like i'll NEVER do that again. he said 10 years ago he's advised his father to get out of whatever he was in and invest in VTSAX and relax. his dad had trailed the total market by a percent or so, prior to fees. his father did. meanwhile his dad's partner (never got remarried) investments remained with the same broker. the results have been pretty bad. His dad's partner's investments are heavily tilted towards tech funds and well we all know how thats gone the past 5 years. so even though he feels like he made sense to his dad initially, the past 5 years have kind of been rough seeing as the portfolio difference is pretty stark. I don't think its really caused an issue between his father and he, he still feels like crap even though over the long term its likely the right choice.
Edward Jones could claim it was due to the brilliant execution of their tactical strategies, in reality it could have just been luck. This is why trying to argue a Boglehead vs. a broker approach can be difficult, almost anything can happen in the short term. Longer term, you will see the effect of the fees on performance.

The other difficulty is that Bogleheads are a very small subset of the population, the vast majority of people could benefit from some type of advisory relationship. We underestimate the cluelessness of the majority of people regarding personal finance and investing. Edward Jones and Ameriprise are not at the top of the list where I would send people but at least they will get their clients into a diversified portfolio.

I don't see it as my mission to save the world. I had two family members who had accounts at Edward Jones and they seemed happy with their accounts and their advisor relationship. I gave them my opinion when asked but otherwise have butted out, it really isn't any of my business.

Advisory fees are a drag, even the 0.30% a year that Vanguard charges. Edward Jones, last I looked was charging 1.35% a year for advisory fees and Ameriprise charged 1.20%. The dollars do add up over time but even at that, I still stay that most people would benefit from an advisor. The issue is going to the right people and getting value for your dollars. Bottom line, if you want individual attention, it is going to cost you and more than Bogleheads would like.
I kind of look at it like people who have to buy from whole foods and refuse to shop at aldi. we basically buy the same crap, you just pay way more for it. who cares, why would i spend more than a brief conversation to convince someone to switch. When we started shopping at aldi, this large family saves hundreds a month. that will amount to a lot of money over the course of our lives. or people that spend more to lease, etc.
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nedsaid
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by nedsaid »

hnd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 2:59 pm
nedsaid wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:47 pm
hnd wrote: Thu Jun 17, 2021 1:29 pm I was talking to a guy at work about this topic kind of. he kind of laughed and was like i'll NEVER do that again. he said 10 years ago he's advised his father to get out of whatever he was in and invest in VTSAX and relax. his dad had trailed the total market by a percent or so, prior to fees. his father did. meanwhile his dad's partner (never got remarried) investments remained with the same broker. the results have been pretty bad. His dad's partner's investments are heavily tilted towards tech funds and well we all know how thats gone the past 5 years. so even though he feels like he made sense to his dad initially, the past 5 years have kind of been rough seeing as the portfolio difference is pretty stark. I don't think its really caused an issue between his father and he, he still feels like crap even though over the long term its likely the right choice.
Edward Jones could claim it was due to the brilliant execution of their tactical strategies, in reality it could have just been luck. This is why trying to argue a Boglehead vs. a broker approach can be difficult, almost anything can happen in the short term. Longer term, you will see the effect of the fees on performance.

The other difficulty is that Bogleheads are a very small subset of the population, the vast majority of people could benefit from some type of advisory relationship. We underestimate the cluelessness of the majority of people regarding personal finance and investing. Edward Jones and Ameriprise are not at the top of the list where I would send people but at least they will get their clients into a diversified portfolio.

I don't see it as my mission to save the world. I had two family members who had accounts at Edward Jones and they seemed happy with their accounts and their advisor relationship. I gave them my opinion when asked but otherwise have butted out, it really isn't any of my business.

Advisory fees are a drag, even the 0.30% a year that Vanguard charges. Edward Jones, last I looked was charging 1.35% a year for advisory fees and Ameriprise charged 1.20%. The dollars do add up over time but even at that, I still stay that most people would benefit from an advisor. The issue is going to the right people and getting value for your dollars. Bottom line, if you want individual attention, it is going to cost you and more than Bogleheads would like.
I kind of look at it like people who have to buy from whole foods and refuse to shop at aldi. we basically buy the same crap, you just pay way more for it. who cares, why would i spend more than a brief conversation to convince someone to switch. When we started shopping at aldi, this large family saves hundreds a month. that will amount to a lot of money over the course of our lives. or people that spend more to lease, etc.
Yep. It pays to shop around.
A fool and his money are good for business.
Vanguard User
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by Vanguard User »

I was with EJ for about 15 years for my Roth IRA. With the help of this forums. I decided to close the account last week. I went to Fidelity and also have a Vanguard taxable at Vanguard.

I sold all my American Funds with a starting front load of 5.75% and over 0.50 ER.

This afternoon I bought $142k+ (Entire cash in Roth IRA) of FZROX.
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dratkinson
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Re: How to Get my Relatives Out of Edward Jones

Post by dratkinson »

You could search for EJ horror stories for your relatives to read: https://www.google.com/search?q=leaving ... or+stories

Clients. I recall this one---glad I didn't make that mistake... among my many others: http://kronstantinople.blogspot.com/p/e ... -saga.html

Salesmen. Recall reading that EJ also makes it hard for its salesmen to leave, by requiring them to reimburse EJ for their "training" (~$75K, if memory serves).
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor; you are forewarned.
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