I cant find anything better than S&P
I cant find anything better than S&P
Just putting money in S&P is what I am doing.
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
A total stock market index fund is broader and includes some some small and mid cap stocks in addition to all the S&P 500 stocks. A total stock market index fund is generally considered to be a better choice even though it is something like 70 or 80 percent(??) the same as an S&P 500 index fund.
A lot of people use it in a three fund portfolio.
https://www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Three-fund_portfolio
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Levered S&P, but requires huge risk tolerance to hold tight. Weak hands get shaken out.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Oh no you didn'tMarseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:57 pm Levered S&P, but requires huge risk tolerance to hold tight. Weak hands get shaken out.
- anon_investor
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
My vote: Total US Stock Market Index and chill.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Something like UPRO? Im not sure I would have the mental rigidity for that.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:57 pm Levered S&P, but requires huge risk tolerance to hold tight. Weak hands get shaken out.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
? I'm actually not trading LETFs, I was just answering the questionjarjarM wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:58 pmOh no you didn'tMarseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:57 pm Levered S&P, but requires huge risk tolerance to hold tight. Weak hands get shaken out.
Last edited by Marseille07 on Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Vtsax then chill? Isnt it literally same as vfiax historically?
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Yes. SSO, UPRO, SPXL etc etc. Numerous backtests show slight edge but much bigger volatility for obvious reasons. The bottom line is, beating 1x isn't easy.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:59 pmSomething like UPRO? Im not sure I would have the mental rigidity for that.Marseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:57 pm Levered S&P, but requires huge risk tolerance to hold tight. Weak hands get shaken out.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Seems like market is the way to go. I looked into other options like real estates but unless i am the end user... (ex owning building for my own business or my home) it doesnt make great sense... over vfiax then chill.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Yes. Let's keep doing your 2k/day DCA
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Yep seems like thats the way to go. Haha i see you so often!
Do you have some cash on the sideway in case of pullback?
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Looks like you already have the answer, so just looking for confirmation
I do real estate, as a diversifier, but it is not comparable to Stock investing, as investment domain is not the same, and neither are returns. Where I am at, we have seen 20% gains in SFH, in last 6 months, with rents also up by 10%, and with crazy low mortgage rates, very good option to invest. But if comparing to Stocks,not the same at all.
Personally I prefer VTI(total market more), but VOO seems to be tracking closely.
I do real estate, as a diversifier, but it is not comparable to Stock investing, as investment domain is not the same, and neither are returns. Where I am at, we have seen 20% gains in SFH, in last 6 months, with rents also up by 10%, and with crazy low mortgage rates, very good option to invest. But if comparing to Stocks,not the same at all.
Personally I prefer VTI(total market more), but VOO seems to be tracking closely.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
I'm not waiting for a major pullback, but I do have some money from selling a property.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:16 pmYep seems like thats the way to go. Haha i see you so often!
Do you have some cash on the sideway in case of pullback?
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
The S&P 500 fund at Vanguard was the first index fund I ever purchased. I still own it today, nearly 25 years later.
At 4 basis points (current cost), it's practically free, and you never have to worry about under-performing the S&P 500. I'll bet a lot of mutual fund managers wish they could be that certain of their own results. Just buy a little every month, or when you can afford it, until you're done accumulating, then enjoy the 100% qualified dividends.
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
annu wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:18 pm Looks like you already have the answer, so just looking for confirmation
I do real estate, as a diversifier, but it is not comparable to Stock investing, as investment domain is not the same, and neither are returns. Where I am at, we have seen 20% gains in SFH, in last 6 months, with rents also up by 10%, and with crazy low mortgage rates, very good option to invest. But if comparing to Stocks,not the same at all.
Personally I prefer VTI(total market more), but VOO seems to be tracking closely.
I do have a roof over my head and commercial real estate for my business but I am thinking that is as far as I will go. Makes sense because i am the end user and I will take care of the place not like some random tenants...
Only reason I am thinking of RE is the fact that I can leverage... but hack i can borrow money and invest into market as well.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Marseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:19 pmI'm not waiting for a major pullback, but I do have some money from selling a property.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:16 pmYep seems like thats the way to go. Haha i see you so often!
Do you have some cash on the sideway in case of pullback?
Whats your plan? Dump it into market? Or increase DCA amount?
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
I'm doing Michael Kitces' bond tent & rising glidepath: https://www.kitces.com/blog/managing-po ... -red-zone/newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:23 pmMarseille07 wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:19 pmI'm not waiting for a major pullback, but I do have some money from selling a property.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 11:16 pmYep seems like thats the way to go. Haha i see you so often!
Do you have some cash on the sideway in case of pullback?
Whats your plan? Dump it into market? Or increase DCA amount?
And some "funny money" trading on the side.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
+1
"Know what you own, and know why you own it." — Peter Lynch
- anon_investor
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
I own the S&P500, too.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:02 amYep, I actually own S&P500 too (tax loss harvesting). But you asked for an alternative.
It's a cute little subset of the rest of the stocks I own.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
watchnerd wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:13 amI own the S&P500, too.anon_investor wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 12:02 amYep, I actually own S&P500 too (tax loss harvesting). But you asked for an alternative.
It's a cute little subset of the rest of the stocks I own.
Whats your majority? Vtsax?
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
There's NDX/QQQ.
Financial decisions based on emotion often turn out to be bad decisions.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
S&P500 is a fantastic investment. Warren Buffett and Jack Bogle approved.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Domestically, see if you can get into any of the PRIMECAP funds. Or POAGX.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:49 pm Just putting money in S&P is what I am doing.
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
Also, you don't mention if you hold any Int'l. You may want to pick some of that up alongside the S&P to DCA into.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Search "Warren Buffett 10 year bet": https://www.google.com/search?q=warren+ ... 0+year+bet
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Total US and total ex-us (VTI, VXUS)
My posts are for entertainment purposes only.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
I remember hearing 80% but what's more important is that the returns correlation (proper term?) is closer to 99%. If you superimpose growth charts of the two, the lines, despite occasional fluctuations, are so close together it is hard to tell them apart.Watty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:54 pmA total stock market index fund is broader and includes some some small and mid cap stocks in addition to all the S&P 500 stocks. A total stock market index fund is generally considered to be a better choice even though it is something like 70 or 80 percent(??) the same as an S&P 500 index fund.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Correlation just means that they move in the same direction around some mean. It has nothing to do with the magnitude.bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 amI remember hearing 80% but what's more important is that the returns correlation (proper term?) is closer to 99%. If you superimpose growth charts of the two, the lines, despite occasional fluctuations, are so close together it is hard to tell them apart.Watty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:54 pmA total stock market index fund is broader and includes some some small and mid cap stocks in addition to all the S&P 500 stocks. A total stock market index fund is generally considered to be a better choice even though it is something like 70 or 80 percent(??) the same as an S&P 500 index fund.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
newyorker:newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:49 pm Just putting money in S&P is what I am doing.
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
Stay the course.
Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "Deep down, I remain absolutely confident that the vast majority of American families would be well served by owning their equity holding in a Standard & Poor's 500 Index fund (or a total stock market index fund) and holding their bonds in a total bond market index fund."
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Not according to portfoliovisualizer.
AA: 40/41/19 - equities/positive return-zero volatility/bonds
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
"In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine; in the long run, it is a weighing machine" ~Benjamin Graham
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Thanks.dcabler wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:51 amCorrelation just means that they move in the same direction around some mean. It has nothing to do with the magnitude.bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 amI remember hearing 80% but what's more important is that the returns correlation (proper term?) is closer to 99%. If you superimpose growth charts of the two, the lines, despite occasional fluctuations, are so close together it is hard to tell them apart.Watty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:54 pmA total stock market index fund is broader and includes some some small and mid cap stocks in addition to all the S&P 500 stocks. A total stock market index fund is generally considered to be a better choice even though it is something like 70 or 80 percent(??) the same as an S&P 500 index fund.
Then it is more than correlation as they move by the same magnitude. In other words $X of one gets the (nearly) exact dollar growth as $X of the other, according to a Morningstar growth chart.
Last edited by bertilak on Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:22 am, edited 2 times in total.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Just doing this is a fantastic idea. I prefer VTSAX (total market), but an SP 500 index fund is a beautiful thing.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:49 pm Just putting money in S&P is what I am doing.
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
"I am better off than he is – for he knows nothing and thinks that he knows. I neither know nor think that I know." - Socrates. "Nobody knows nothing." - Jack Bogle
- bertilak
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
See my chart above (viewtopic.php?p=5933353#p5933353). You can decide for yourself if one is better than the other.
In my opinion, a total stock fund (VTSAX) is the "purer" play but I personally own VFIAX because of a tax loss harvesting process I went through last year. In other words I thought they were "close enough." Someday, if conditions are right, I might switch back to VTSAX.
Last edited by bertilak on Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:33 am, edited 1 time in total.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Isnt it essentially the same?bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:25 amSee my chart above (viewtopic.php?p=5933353#p5933353). You can decide for yourself if one is better than the other.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
That's the point! (Note my edit of my just previous post.)newyorker wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:30 amIsnt it essentially the same?bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:25 amSee my chart above (viewtopic.php?p=5933353#p5933353). You can decide for yourself if one is better than the other.
May neither drought nor rain nor blizzard disturb the joy juice in your gizzard. -- Squire Omar Barker (aka S.O.B.), the Cowboy Poet
- ruralavalon
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Either is an excellent choice. I use Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) because a little more diversified.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
How does that show VTSAX vs VFIAX?jason2459 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:02 amCertainly with in error
11.53 vs 11.35 CAGR
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion1_1=100
AA: 40/41/19 - equities/positive return-zero volatility/bonds
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Total US vs SP500beernutz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:00 amHow does that show VTSAX vs VFIAX?jason2459 wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:02 amCertainly with in error
11.53 vs 11.35 CAGR
https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion1_1=100
"In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine; in the long run, it is a weighing machine" ~Benjamin Graham
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
AA: 40/41/19 - equities/positive return-zero volatility/bonds
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
If you choose to let a data set time lock you in your back testing that's your choice. I'd rather see a bigger picture and more accurate to my investing time horizon.beernutz wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 11:27 am
I really don't care which is held. I own both.
"In the short run, the stock market is a voting machine; in the long run, it is a weighing machine" ~Benjamin Graham
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Correct. You have to look at the actual holdings in the end. And since both are cap weighted, then then the percentages of the same stocks they hold of the largest caps will look very similar, then decreasingly similar as you go down the list of decreasing market cap. But by definition as you go down the list of decreasing market cap, the indices are holding less of those stocks, so their influence on the total return also diminishes.... A long sentence to say that the returns for both are dominated by the largest market caps, so no surprise that there isn't a lot of daylight between the performance of the two..bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 10:09 amThanks.dcabler wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 9:51 amCorrelation just means that they move in the same direction around some mean. It has nothing to do with the magnitude.bertilak wrote: ↑Fri Apr 09, 2021 8:56 amI remember hearing 80% but what's more important is that the returns correlation (proper term?) is closer to 99%. If you superimpose growth charts of the two, the lines, despite occasional fluctuations, are so close together it is hard to tell them apart.Watty wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:54 pmA total stock market index fund is broader and includes some some small and mid cap stocks in addition to all the S&P 500 stocks. A total stock market index fund is generally considered to be a better choice even though it is something like 70 or 80 percent(??) the same as an S&P 500 index fund.
Then it is more than correlation as they move by the same magnitude. In other words $X of one gets the (nearly) exact dollar growth as $X of the other, according to a Morningstar growth chart.
Cheers.
Cheers.
Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Any of these other indexes is just substantially similar to SPX. Even the leveraged version is merely a way to scale the same underlying investment. But anyway, I think the fact that few real alternatives have been suggested just demonstrates how efficiently risk can be transferred to investors through equity markets nowadays.
With that being said, I would propose that interesting investment alternatives start to arise as your net worth increases to quite high levels, and your investor network becomes very developed. I suspect that Peter Thiel and similar people are able to "beat" the SPX due to insider investment connections to VC and PE. You'll also have more freedom to make speculative bets if your net worth is very high.
If you are rich, you can also afford to speculate on alternative investments like art, wine, or rights to songs and films, even if it is more of a hobby.
With that being said, I would propose that interesting investment alternatives start to arise as your net worth increases to quite high levels, and your investor network becomes very developed. I suspect that Peter Thiel and similar people are able to "beat" the SPX due to insider investment connections to VC and PE. You'll also have more freedom to make speculative bets if your net worth is very high.
If you are rich, you can also afford to speculate on alternative investments like art, wine, or rights to songs and films, even if it is more of a hobby.
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Sounds good to me. It’s what I do. Every single week.newyorker wrote: ↑Thu Apr 08, 2021 10:49 pm Just putting money in S&P is what I am doing.
I tried to look into buying real estate
Buying individual stocks and etc.
But everything seems like a lot of hassle and more risk than just cruising with DCA into the market.
Do you guys have any other suggestion where to put money?
“You only find out who is swimming naked when the tide goes out.“ — Warren Buffett
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Re: I cant find anything better than S&P
Megacorp restricts me to SP500 for the 401k, so I use that for the tax deferred/exempt accounts and use VTSAX for taxable. This hopefully will prevent any unintended wash sales. The unfortunate part is that it restricts me to using SP500 in the Roths and HSA since I want to use auto reinvestment in all tax deferred/exempt accounts.
Not that I'm worried about loss harvesting complications after a week like this.
Not that I'm worried about loss harvesting complications after a week like this.