Vanguard site issues

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swansong
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Vanguard site issues

Post by swansong »

Anyone else experiencing issues at Vanguard? No quotes available, pop-up says limited trades allowed? Anyone know what the problem is?
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

nope.
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Wiggums
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Wiggums »

Down detector has 296 reports of issues at Vanguard at 9 AM. 70% were classified as trading related.

10 AM no trading issue with mfund. I didn’t see any error messages.
Last edited by Wiggums on Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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swansong
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by swansong »

Notice: Currently the only order types available online are Equity and ETF day orders. For all other Brokerage products and order types please contact Vanguard at (800-992-8327). Please monitor this page for balances, holdings and order status at this time. Extended hours trading is currently not available.

This is the notice received.
chem
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by chem »

swansong wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:06 am Notice: Currently the only order types available online are Equity and ETF day orders. For all other Brokerage products and order types please contact Vanguard at (800-992-8327). Please monitor this page for balances, holdings and order status at this time. Extended hours trading is currently not available.

This is the notice received.
if you try to trade options, you get this:

"System is unavailable
This transaction can't be completed because our system is unavailable at this time. Please try again later or contact us at 800-992-8327."
chem
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by chem »

this whole exchange pretty much sums it up:

Image
lostdog
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by lostdog »

swansong wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:56 am Anyone else experiencing issues at Vanguard? No quotes available, pop-up says limited trades allowed? Anyone know what the problem is?

Same!

When I try to make an ETF transaction it thinks I'm making an after hours order.
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bondsr4me
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by bondsr4me »

I was able to log-on ok....getting to the website was really slow, but that may have been an internet problem...not VG problem...not sure about that.

I updated the "Outside Investments" without problems.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by lostdog »

I cannot make an ETF transaction.
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chrisjul
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by chrisjul »

Yes, I have several trades that should have sold. They are now marked REJECTED. Cost me $$$$$$.

Vanguard customer service and website reliability has crashed since Jack Bogle died.

Ive been holding over an hour. I'm sure there is some Loophole that will allow them NOT to pay me.

Fidelity, here I come.
runninginvestor
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by runninginvestor »

It seems to be okay now.

Edit: from the old App
dukeblue219
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by dukeblue219 »

chem wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:25 am this whole exchange pretty much sums it up:
That is outstanding. Nice work Vanguard.

I will add that the BoA mobile app was not working this morning, and Down Detector shows a lot of trouble at BoA and PayPal as well.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by ruralavalon »

On both the Vanguard website and app they correctly show my order yesterday to purchase additional shares of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) as pending.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

FWIW, I placed a limit order to buy. The order was placed at 03/29/2021 11:38:52 a.m., ET, and now shows as pending.

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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Trader Joe »

swansong wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 8:56 am Anyone else experiencing issues at Vanguard? No quotes available, pop-up says limited trades allowed? Anyone know what the problem is?
No. Everything is working great.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by backpacker61 »

chrisjul wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 am Yes, I have several trades that should have sold. They are now marked REJECTED. Cost me $$$$$$.

Vanguard customer service and website reliability has crashed since Jack Bogle died.

Ive been holding over an hour. I'm sure there is some Loophole that will allow them NOT to pay me.

Fidelity, here I come.
I think the issue is that Vanguard has experienced explosive account growth since PBS Frontline aired 'The Retirement Gamble' (in 2013), which portrayed Vanguard (and Jack Bogle) in a favorable light.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... nt-gamble/
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by dukeblue219 »

backpacker61 wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 pm I think the issue is that Vanguard has experienced explosive account growth since PBS Frontline aired 'The Retirement Gamble' (in 2013), which portrayed Vanguard (and Jack Bogle) in a favorable light.

https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... nt-gamble/
I think you may be overestimating the influence of Frontline. Even if so, eight years is an eternity in IT. Their website should be able to maintain functionality during a fairly routine Monday.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

i still remember the good ol days of writing a check to make my biweekly deposit to my Vanguard IRA. We've come a long way baby. But still have a ways to go.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions | Wiki
dcop
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by dcop »

Late to the game but yes they were down for apprx 1 - 1.5 hours. However I went to the app on my phone and it worked fine. Something to try next time it happens,
Random Poster
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Random Poster »

Flannelbeard wrote: Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:28 pm I wouldn't know. This isn't one of the ten or so days each year when I need to access my Vanguard account. I use the word "need" very loosely too. Nothing I couldn't do tomorrow. Benefits of the passive strategy.
That is quite an unhelpful response.

It smacks of a “if it doesn’t affect me at the moment, then I don’t care if it affects you ever” sentiment, although that is the nicest way that I can think of to put it at the moment.

I didn’t try to logon to Vanguard at all today, but that is irrelevant and immaterial.

What should matter to every Vanguard investor is that Vanguard’s website works every time all the time.

Because you never know when you might truly need it to work for you.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Random Poster »

Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am I quite literally cannot think of any reason why I would truly need to log in to Vanguard, and couldn't just go back on the next day. I would assume this also applies to most passive investors who are truly following the Bogleheads' strategy.
Here are a few reasons why someone might need to have access and waiting another day would not be acceptable:

Need to wire cash to fund a house purchase and the closing date is approaching.

Dying person who wants to make a transfer to someone or something outside of any normal probate process.

Someone trying to set up or accomplish some matter under a court order that has hard deadlines.

And so on.

Whether someone is a passive investor has no relevance to whether an investment website should be consistently available, and that argument seems like more of an excuse than a justification to me.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Stinky »

Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am
I have zero sympathy (and quite possibly some schadenfreude) for day traders trapped in their positions. They should know and accept the risks.
Do you really have "schadenfreude" when others are suffering panic and potential financial loss?

Definition of schadenfreude - Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by ruralavalon »

Stinky wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:43 am
Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am
I have zero sympathy (and quite possibly some schadenfreude) for day traders trapped in their positions. They should know and accept the risks.
Do you really have "schadenfreude" when others are suffering panic and potential financial loss?

Definition of schadenfreude - Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune
For me it is not "schadenfreude". For me it is two things:
1) I always wonder why a day or a few hours down is important; and
2) I check my accounts on both the website and app after seeing one of these posts, and the website and app always work. So whatever problem existed is very short-term, it's gone by the time I check for it.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Random Poster »

Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
You know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?

ETA: Also, the whole “plan better” argument is a weak one, as it puts the burden on the consumer and not the provider and, in any event, may not be prudent anyway. If no provider has 100% uptime, does that mean that it would be prudent for everyone to have, say, 20 bank accounts just in case 19 of them are not available at a given moment?
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by LadyGeek »

I removed an off-topic post and several replies. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.

...At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by MrJedi »

Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:55 am
Random Poster wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:42 am
Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
You know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?
Of course. I'm just not a fan of adding needless complication to my strategy. Cash goes in the savings account. Investments go in the brokerage account. Most online banks have faster transactions than brokerages anyway.
Wouldn't a single account that houses everything be simpler and less complex?
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Eagle33 »

MrJedi wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02 pm
Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:55 am
Random Poster wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:42 am
Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
You know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?
Of course. I'm just not a fan of adding needless complication to my strategy. Cash goes in the savings account. Investments go in the brokerage account. Most online banks have faster transactions than brokerages anyway.
Wouldn't a single account that houses everything be simpler and less complex?
Until you are locked out of that single account for what every reason.
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Vanguard website didn’t update last night

Post by brademac »

This morning when I logged into Vanguard I noticed it didn’t update from yesterday’s transactions

I made a mutual fund transaction well for the close yesterday. It still shows pending and that it didn’t happen yet.

Also, my interest in settlement account doesn’t show up this morning and since it is first day of month it should be there

Anyone else have this?
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Rob54keep
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Rob54keep »

Yes,,,me too. I am not seeing interest applied to 4/1. This is the first time I have ever not seen the transactions not appear on the first of the month.
Contacting them now. Investment services say,,,we have no clues but should show up today.
Last edited by Rob54keep on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
wishy-washy
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by wishy-washy »

No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Da5id »

wishy-washy wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:01 am No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
I got vbtlx interest, short term, and long term cg distributions in my non brokerage ira, but not in my several inherited ira brokerage accounts. Likely brokerage accounts are the issue?
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by SethJane42 »

Expected to see dividends paid or reinvested 3/31 to be posted this morning. Not good.

Vanguard site is also not consistently the same anymore. Like they're redesigning, implemented, but haven't yet committed.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by wishy-washy »

Da5id wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:22 am
wishy-washy wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:01 am No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
I got vbtlx interest, short term, and long term cg distributions in my non brokerage ira, but not in my several inherited ira brokerage accounts. Likely brokerage accounts are the issue?
Perhaps. My issues are in 2 brokerage accounts.
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Rob54keep
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Rob54keep »

my issues are not in brokerage accounts. Vanguard is aware of the problem. Perhaps it is their April Fool's on us!
Issue appears to be resolved.
Last edited by Rob54keep on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
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FlordiaGuy
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by FlordiaGuy »

April 1, logged into Vanguard. Expected to see dividends posted. RHS from 22 March, and VOO from 26 March, Vanguard MM from 31 March. But ... none of these show up! Vanguard, we got a problem.

UPDATE 9:00 AM EDT. Dividend transactions are now posted. But the account balances are not. Todo: check the prices for reinvested dividends.
Last edited by FlordiaGuy on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

If it is a brokerage problem, I don't think it is across the board, as I just went thru all my holdings ands DW's holdings in our TIRAs and Roths.

All dividends accounted for. All but a few go to cash, our Roth holdings go to reinvest. Roll call: Everyone accounted for.

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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by peppers »

fwiw

Logged in earlier this morning and all account distributions were posted in taxable and IRA's.

We are on the old mutual fund platform.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Stinky »

My monthly dividends on bond funds just now showed up in my brokerage account. 8am Central.

I’d checked several times earlier today, and they were not there.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by wishy-washy »

Stinky wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:57 am My monthly dividends on bond funds just now showed up in my brokerage account. 8am Central.

I’d checked several times earlier today, and they were not there.
Mine too. This was the latest ever. Not that big of a deal but I do like to update some spreadsheets before the market opens on the first day of each month.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

Could there be a timing issue involved?

When I sign on to Vanguard at @ 9:30AM, the info is stale, shows market closing prices of the previous day. The current prices lag 20 minutes, so at 9:51AM, if you refresh your screen, you will see actuals, not the closes of the previous day.

The indexes figures are live, that is why I take a gander @ 9:30AM, to see if there is anything of interest, or opportunity.

Now if I wanted to do something, buy or sell, the current pricing information would be available to me via a quote, with no 20 minute delay.

From Vanguard:

Intraday prices are generally provided for stocks, ETFs, and options on a delayed basis during market hours. Prices are delayed at least 20 minutes. If an intraday price is not available, the price displayed will reflect the previous business day's close. For mutual funds and fixed income holdings, the prices displayed are generally the previous business day's closing price.

Market information is provided by Thomson Reuters. Disclaimer

Additional information about prices for other products and outside investments.

Data and information about your outside investments that are updated automatically are provided by Yodlee. See restrictions Vanguard isn't responsible for the accuracy of this information.

Prices provided by Thomson Reuters, delayed at least 20 minutes. Disclaimer.

For outside investments you entered manually, the price displayed depends on the type of security you entered. Prices for stocks and mutual funds are updated automatically whenever you open or refresh the page. Prices for bonds, short-term investments, or "other" holdings are updated only by you.

Vanguard funds not held in a brokerage account are held by The Vanguard Group, Inc., and are not protected by SIPC.

*Note on account protection: Securities in your brokerage account are held in custody by Vanguard Brokerage Services®, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation, member FINRA and SIPC. Account protection



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RetiredAL
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by RetiredAL »

Random Poster wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:35 am
Flannelbeard wrote: Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am I quite literally cannot think of any reason why I would truly need to log in to Vanguard, and couldn't just go back on the next day. I would assume this also applies to most passive investors who are truly following the Bogleheads' strategy.
Here are a few reasons why someone might need to have access and waiting another day would not be acceptable:

Need to wire cash to fund a house purchase and the closing date is approaching.


Dying person who wants to make a transfer to someone or something outside of any normal probate process.

Someone trying to set up or accomplish some matter under a court order that has hard deadlines.

And so on.

Whether someone is a passive investor has no relevance to whether an investment website should be consistently available, and that argument seems like more of an excuse than a justification to me.
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.

There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Random Poster »

RetiredAL wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:42 pm
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.

There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
I don’t disagree, and I over-funded my house purchase several days before the closing date, but there have been reports here of people having issues with wire transfers going out on a timely basis and with Vanguard complying with court-ordered account transfers.

My greater point, however, is that people should have confidence in the company where they choose to invest their money and the company should have a robust IT infrastructure to minimize hiccups and downtime.

I think, based on comments here, the former is waning because support in respect of the latter doesn’t seem to exist.
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by galawdawg »

It is always a source of interest in these threads how some folks want to assess fault against the Vanguard "client-owner", rather than Vanguard, when Vanguard fails to deliver. Why is it important whether the poster "needs" to complete a transaction within an hour or a day...perhaps it is simply a matter of convenience for the Vanguard client to log-in to conduct business at a time that they choose. When did we get to become the arbiters of whether a Vanguard client-owner's use of Vanguard services was necessary or reasonable??

I don't know whether Vanguard's website downtimes and malfunctions occur with greater frequency that other brokerages, such as Fidelity and Schwab. I do know that Vanguard does not place much value on customer service in comparison to other brokerages. If Vanguard is going to adhere to their "no evening and weekend telephone hours and no online chat feature" model of customer service, then one might expect that the more limited service that IS available would actually BE available.

And for those who argue that Vanguard can't provide a higher quality interaction with their clients for the low-cost that they charge, you would think that the $7 billion in annual revenue that the Vanguard Group receives each year from Vanguard funds to run the brokerage side would pay for robust, reliable and redundant IT systems. But since the Vanguard Group is the least transparent brokerage when it comes to disclosing expenses, we just don't know where all of that money is spent.

I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...

JMHO, others may disagree! :beer
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by RetiredAL »

Random Poster wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:05 pm
RetiredAL wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:42 pm
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.

There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
I don’t disagree, and I over-funded my house purchase several days before the closing date, but there have been reports here of people having issues with wire transfers going out on a timely basis and with Vanguard complying with court-ordered account transfers.

My greater point, however, is that people should have confidence in the company where they choose to invest their money and the company should have a robust IT infrastructure to minimize hiccups and downtime.

I think, based on comments here, the former is waning because support in respect of the latter doesn’t seem to exist.
I feel many (most?) companies customer support, be it IT, telephones, and real people is on the wane. People want low cost, business leaders what higher profit, so squeeze baby squeeze.

When I started investing in the company run 401K, payroll deductions were only once a month and the actual buys were weeks later. You were only allow to transfer between funds once every 6 months. ER's were 1 to 2%. The only view of your account was via paper, which was quarterly. All requests for anything was mailed in forms.
chem
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by chem »

galawdawg wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
yeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.

the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

chem wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:42 pm
galawdawg wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
yeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.

the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by ruralavalon »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 am
chem wrote: Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:42 pm
galawdawg wrote: Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
yeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.

the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
chem
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by chem »

ruralavalon wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:23 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 am NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.
Well, just to continue the comparison since you both replied; you can auto-invest with Schwab mutual funds with no load or transaction fees, too.

S&P 500 funds:
SWPPX (schwab): 0.02% ER
VFIAX (vanguard): 0.04% ER

total us market:
SWTSX 0.03% ER
VTSAX 0.04% ER

total us bond fund:
SWAGX 0.04% ER
VBTLX 0.05% ER

target date index 2050 (but you can pick any date):
SWYMX 0.08% ER
VFIFX 0.15% ER

in every case, Schwab beats Vanguard on fees! So if the argument for Vanguard isn't fees, isn't features, isn't auto-investing, isn't reliability... then what is it? inertia?
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ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard site issues

Post by ruralavalon »

chem wrote: Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:05 am
ruralavalon wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:23 am
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 am NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.
Well, just to continue the comparison since you both replied; you can auto-invest with Schwab mutual funds with no load or transaction fees, too.

S&P 500 funds:
SWPPX (schwab): 0.02% ER
VFIAX (vanguard): 0.04% ER

total us market:
SWTSX 0.03% ER
VTSAX 0.04% ER

total us bond fund:
SWAGX 0.04% ER
VBTLX 0.05% ER

target date index 2050 (but you can pick any date):
SWYMX 0.08% ER
VFIFX 0.15% ER

in every case, Schwab beats Vanguard on fees! So if the argument for Vanguard isn't fees, isn't features, isn't auto-investing, isn't reliability... then what is it? inertia?
Yes, some inertia.

The very small difference in expense ratios is not enough to make the idea of change attractive. For example the 0.01% smaller expense ratio at Schwab for a total U.S. stock market index funds has not produced any benefit in returns. Portfolio Visualizer, 2001-2021. Likewise the 0.01% lower expense ratio at Schwab for a total bond market index fund has not produced any benefit in returns. Portfolio Visualizer, 2018-2021. So a little lower expense ratio is no reason to change.

Also Schwab does not offer a total international stock index fund or a small-cap value index fund. We use both types of index funds at Vanguard.

I have always found both the Vanguard website and app more than adequate for our needs, and in my experience Vanguard customer service has always been prompt, courteous and professional. I have never experienced a hold time longer than a couple of minutes.

I almost never need any customer service, I call less than once per year. Vanguard works great for a buy and hold, stay the course, style of investing. I love simplicity and having everything on autopilot.

I don't say that Schwab is bad. Schwab isn't bad, it's just not better for me. I often say that Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab are all good choices for fund firms to use, and the choice among them is largely a matter of personal preference.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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