Vanguard site issues
Vanguard site issues
Anyone else experiencing issues at Vanguard? No quotes available, pop-up says limited trades allowed? Anyone know what the problem is?
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
nope.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Vanguard site issues
Down detector has 296 reports of issues at Vanguard at 9 AM. 70% were classified as trading related.
10 AM no trading issue with mfund. I didn’t see any error messages.
10 AM no trading issue with mfund. I didn’t see any error messages.
Last edited by Wiggums on Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:10 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
vanguard's brokerage trading capabilities are down this morning. can confirm.
it's all over twitter
https://twitter.com/TradeCNBC/status/13 ... 19494?s=20
https://twitter.com/ZR1Trader/status/13 ... 42499?s=20
https://twitter.com/MooreGovernor/statu ... 04771?s=20
https://twitter.com/mbrushstocks/status ... 60581?s=20
https://twitter.com/StockMKTNewz/status ... 31872?s=20
it's all over twitter
https://twitter.com/TradeCNBC/status/13 ... 19494?s=20
https://twitter.com/ZR1Trader/status/13 ... 42499?s=20
https://twitter.com/MooreGovernor/statu ... 04771?s=20
https://twitter.com/mbrushstocks/status ... 60581?s=20
https://twitter.com/StockMKTNewz/status ... 31872?s=20
Re: Vanguard site issues
Notice: Currently the only order types available online are Equity and ETF day orders. For all other Brokerage products and order types please contact Vanguard at (800-992-8327). Please monitor this page for balances, holdings and order status at this time. Extended hours trading is currently not available.
This is the notice received.
This is the notice received.
Re: Vanguard site issues
if you try to trade options, you get this:swansong wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:06 am Notice: Currently the only order types available online are Equity and ETF day orders. For all other Brokerage products and order types please contact Vanguard at (800-992-8327). Please monitor this page for balances, holdings and order status at this time. Extended hours trading is currently not available.
This is the notice received.
"System is unavailable
This transaction can't be completed because our system is unavailable at this time. Please try again later or contact us at 800-992-8327."
Re: Vanguard site issues
this whole exchange pretty much sums it up:
Re: Vanguard site issues
Same!
When I try to make an ETF transaction it thinks I'm making an after hours order.
Stocks-80% || Bonds-20% || Taxable-VTI/VXUS || IRA-VT/BNDW
Re: Vanguard site issues
I was able to log-on ok....getting to the website was really slow, but that may have been an internet problem...not VG problem...not sure about that.
I updated the "Outside Investments" without problems.
I updated the "Outside Investments" without problems.
Re: Vanguard site issues
I cannot make an ETF transaction.
Stocks-80% || Bonds-20% || Taxable-VTI/VXUS || IRA-VT/BNDW
Re: Vanguard site issues
Yes, I have several trades that should have sold. They are now marked REJECTED. Cost me $$$$$$.
Vanguard customer service and website reliability has crashed since Jack Bogle died.
Ive been holding over an hour. I'm sure there is some Loophole that will allow them NOT to pay me.
Fidelity, here I come.
Vanguard customer service and website reliability has crashed since Jack Bogle died.
Ive been holding over an hour. I'm sure there is some Loophole that will allow them NOT to pay me.
Fidelity, here I come.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
It seems to be okay now.
Edit: from the old App
Edit: from the old App
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- ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard site issues
On both the Vanguard website and app they correctly show my order yesterday to purchase additional shares of Vanguard Total Stock Market Index Fund (VTSAX) as pending.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Vanguard site issues
FWIW, I placed a limit order to buy. The order was placed at 03/29/2021 11:38:52 a.m., ET, and now shows as pending.
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Broken Man 1999
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Re: Vanguard site issues
I think the issue is that Vanguard has experienced explosive account growth since PBS Frontline aired 'The Retirement Gamble' (in 2013), which portrayed Vanguard (and Jack Bogle) in a favorable light.chrisjul wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 9:46 am Yes, I have several trades that should have sold. They are now marked REJECTED. Cost me $$$$$$.
Vanguard customer service and website reliability has crashed since Jack Bogle died.
Ive been holding over an hour. I'm sure there is some Loophole that will allow them NOT to pay me.
Fidelity, here I come.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... nt-gamble/
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Re: Vanguard site issues
I think you may be overestimating the influence of Frontline. Even if so, eight years is an eternity in IT. Their website should be able to maintain functionality during a fairly routine Monday.backpacker61 wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 12:35 pm I think the issue is that Vanguard has experienced explosive account growth since PBS Frontline aired 'The Retirement Gamble' (in 2013), which portrayed Vanguard (and Jack Bogle) in a favorable light.
https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/frontline/film ... nt-gamble/
- arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
i still remember the good ol days of writing a check to make my biweekly deposit to my Vanguard IRA. We've come a long way baby. But still have a ways to go.
It's hard to accept the truth when the lies were exactly what you wanted to hear. Investing is simple, but not easy. Buy, hold & rebalance low cost index funds & manage taxable events. Asking Portfolio Questions |
Re: Vanguard site issues
Late to the game but yes they were down for apprx 1 - 1.5 hours. However I went to the app on my phone and it worked fine. Something to try next time it happens,
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Re: Vanguard site issues
That is quite an unhelpful response.Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Mon Mar 29, 2021 2:28 pm I wouldn't know. This isn't one of the ten or so days each year when I need to access my Vanguard account. I use the word "need" very loosely too. Nothing I couldn't do tomorrow. Benefits of the passive strategy.
It smacks of a “if it doesn’t affect me at the moment, then I don’t care if it affects you ever” sentiment, although that is the nicest way that I can think of to put it at the moment.
I didn’t try to logon to Vanguard at all today, but that is irrelevant and immaterial.
What should matter to every Vanguard investor is that Vanguard’s website works every time all the time.
Because you never know when you might truly need it to work for you.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
Here are a few reasons why someone might need to have access and waiting another day would not be acceptable:Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am I quite literally cannot think of any reason why I would truly need to log in to Vanguard, and couldn't just go back on the next day. I would assume this also applies to most passive investors who are truly following the Bogleheads' strategy.
Need to wire cash to fund a house purchase and the closing date is approaching.
Dying person who wants to make a transfer to someone or something outside of any normal probate process.
Someone trying to set up or accomplish some matter under a court order that has hard deadlines.
And so on.
Whether someone is a passive investor has no relevance to whether an investment website should be consistently available, and that argument seems like more of an excuse than a justification to me.
Re: Vanguard site issues
Do you really have "schadenfreude" when others are suffering panic and potential financial loss?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am
I have zero sympathy (and quite possibly some schadenfreude) for day traders trapped in their positions. They should know and accept the risks.
Definition of schadenfreude - Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
- ruralavalon
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Re: Vanguard site issues
For me it is not "schadenfreude". For me it is two things:Stinky wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:43 amDo you really have "schadenfreude" when others are suffering panic and potential financial loss?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am
I have zero sympathy (and quite possibly some schadenfreude) for day traders trapped in their positions. They should know and accept the risks.
Definition of schadenfreude - Pleasure derived by someone from another person's misfortune
1) I always wonder why a day or a few hours down is important; and
2) I check my accounts on both the website and app after seeing one of these posts, and the website and app always work. So whatever problem existed is very short-term, it's gone by the time I check for it.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Vanguard site issues
You know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
ETA: Also, the whole “plan better” argument is a weak one, as it puts the burden on the consumer and not the provider and, in any event, may not be prudent anyway. If no provider has 100% uptime, does that mean that it would be prudent for everyone to have, say, 20 bank accounts just in case 19 of them are not available at a given moment?
Re: Vanguard site issues
I removed an off-topic post and several replies. As a reminder, see: General Etiquette
We expect this forum to be a place where people can feel comfortable asking questions and where debates and discussions are conducted in civil tones.
...At all times we must conduct ourselves in a respectful manner to other posters. Attacks on individuals, insults, name calling, trolling, baiting or other attempts to sow dissension are not acceptable.
Re: Vanguard site issues
Wouldn't a single account that houses everything be simpler and less complex?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:55 amOf course. I'm just not a fan of adding needless complication to my strategy. Cash goes in the savings account. Investments go in the brokerage account. Most online banks have faster transactions than brokerages anyway.Random Poster wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:42 amYou know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
Re: Vanguard site issues
Until you are locked out of that single account for what every reason.MrJedi wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 12:02 pmWouldn't a single account that houses everything be simpler and less complex?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:55 amOf course. I'm just not a fan of adding needless complication to my strategy. Cash goes in the savings account. Investments go in the brokerage account. Most online banks have faster transactions than brokerages anyway.Random Poster wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:42 amYou know that a brokerage account can have cash in it, right?Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 10:20 amSince I follow appropriate asset allocation for liability matching, my house down payment money is in my savings account, not my brokerage.
Vanguard website didn’t update last night
This morning when I logged into Vanguard I noticed it didn’t update from yesterday’s transactions
I made a mutual fund transaction well for the close yesterday. It still shows pending and that it didn’t happen yet.
Also, my interest in settlement account doesn’t show up this morning and since it is first day of month it should be there
Anyone else have this?
I made a mutual fund transaction well for the close yesterday. It still shows pending and that it didn’t happen yet.
Also, my interest in settlement account doesn’t show up this morning and since it is first day of month it should be there
Anyone else have this?
Re: Vanguard site issues
Yes,,,me too. I am not seeing interest applied to 4/1. This is the first time I have ever not seen the transactions not appear on the first of the month.
Contacting them now. Investment services say,,,we have no clues but should show up today.
Contacting them now. Investment services say,,,we have no clues but should show up today.
Last edited by Rob54keep on Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:13 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
Re: Vanguard site issues
I got vbtlx interest, short term, and long term cg distributions in my non brokerage ira, but not in my several inherited ira brokerage accounts. Likely brokerage accounts are the issue?wishy-washy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:01 am No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
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Re: Vanguard site issues
Expected to see dividends paid or reinvested 3/31 to be posted this morning. Not good.
Vanguard site is also not consistently the same anymore. Like they're redesigning, implemented, but haven't yet committed.
Vanguard site is also not consistently the same anymore. Like they're redesigning, implemented, but haven't yet committed.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
Perhaps. My issues are in 2 brokerage accounts.Da5id wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:22 amI got vbtlx interest, short term, and long term cg distributions in my non brokerage ira, but not in my several inherited ira brokerage accounts. Likely brokerage accounts are the issue?wishy-washy wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 7:01 am No expected interest or vbtlx distribution for me for the first time ever
Re: Vanguard site issues
my issues are not in brokerage accounts. Vanguard is aware of the problem. Perhaps it is their April Fool's on us!
Issue appears to be resolved.
Issue appears to be resolved.
Last edited by Rob54keep on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:25 am, edited 2 times in total.
- FlordiaGuy
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Re: Vanguard site issues
April 1, logged into Vanguard. Expected to see dividends posted. RHS from 22 March, and VOO from 26 March, Vanguard MM from 31 March. But ... none of these show up! Vanguard, we got a problem.
UPDATE 9:00 AM EDT. Dividend transactions are now posted. But the account balances are not. Todo: check the prices for reinvested dividends.
UPDATE 9:00 AM EDT. Dividend transactions are now posted. But the account balances are not. Todo: check the prices for reinvested dividends.
Last edited by FlordiaGuy on Thu Apr 01, 2021 8:07 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
If it is a brokerage problem, I don't think it is across the board, as I just went thru all my holdings ands DW's holdings in our TIRAs and Roths.
All dividends accounted for. All but a few go to cash, our Roth holdings go to reinvest. Roll call: Everyone accounted for.
Broken Man 1999
All dividends accounted for. All but a few go to cash, our Roth holdings go to reinvest. Roll call: Everyone accounted for.
Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Re: Vanguard site issues
fwiw
Logged in earlier this morning and all account distributions were posted in taxable and IRA's.
We are on the old mutual fund platform.
Logged in earlier this morning and all account distributions were posted in taxable and IRA's.
We are on the old mutual fund platform.
"..the cavalry ain't comin' kid, you're on your own..."
Re: Vanguard site issues
My monthly dividends on bond funds just now showed up in my brokerage account. 8am Central.
I’d checked several times earlier today, and they were not there.
I’d checked several times earlier today, and they were not there.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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Re: Vanguard site issues
Mine too. This was the latest ever. Not that big of a deal but I do like to update some spreadsheets before the market opens on the first day of each month.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
Could there be a timing issue involved?
When I sign on to Vanguard at @ 9:30AM, the info is stale, shows market closing prices of the previous day. The current prices lag 20 minutes, so at 9:51AM, if you refresh your screen, you will see actuals, not the closes of the previous day.
The indexes figures are live, that is why I take a gander @ 9:30AM, to see if there is anything of interest, or opportunity.
Now if I wanted to do something, buy or sell, the current pricing information would be available to me via a quote, with no 20 minute delay.
From Vanguard:
Intraday prices are generally provided for stocks, ETFs, and options on a delayed basis during market hours. Prices are delayed at least 20 minutes. If an intraday price is not available, the price displayed will reflect the previous business day's close. For mutual funds and fixed income holdings, the prices displayed are generally the previous business day's closing price.
Market information is provided by Thomson Reuters. Disclaimer
Additional information about prices for other products and outside investments.
Data and information about your outside investments that are updated automatically are provided by Yodlee. See restrictions Vanguard isn't responsible for the accuracy of this information.
Prices provided by Thomson Reuters, delayed at least 20 minutes. Disclaimer.
For outside investments you entered manually, the price displayed depends on the type of security you entered. Prices for stocks and mutual funds are updated automatically whenever you open or refresh the page. Prices for bonds, short-term investments, or "other" holdings are updated only by you.
Vanguard funds not held in a brokerage account are held by The Vanguard Group, Inc., and are not protected by SIPC.
*Note on account protection: Securities in your brokerage account are held in custody by Vanguard Brokerage Services®, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation, member FINRA and SIPC. Account protection
Broken Man 1999
When I sign on to Vanguard at @ 9:30AM, the info is stale, shows market closing prices of the previous day. The current prices lag 20 minutes, so at 9:51AM, if you refresh your screen, you will see actuals, not the closes of the previous day.
The indexes figures are live, that is why I take a gander @ 9:30AM, to see if there is anything of interest, or opportunity.
Now if I wanted to do something, buy or sell, the current pricing information would be available to me via a quote, with no 20 minute delay.
From Vanguard:
Intraday prices are generally provided for stocks, ETFs, and options on a delayed basis during market hours. Prices are delayed at least 20 minutes. If an intraday price is not available, the price displayed will reflect the previous business day's close. For mutual funds and fixed income holdings, the prices displayed are generally the previous business day's closing price.
Market information is provided by Thomson Reuters. Disclaimer
Additional information about prices for other products and outside investments.
Data and information about your outside investments that are updated automatically are provided by Yodlee. See restrictions Vanguard isn't responsible for the accuracy of this information.
Prices provided by Thomson Reuters, delayed at least 20 minutes. Disclaimer.
For outside investments you entered manually, the price displayed depends on the type of security you entered. Prices for stocks and mutual funds are updated automatically whenever you open or refresh the page. Prices for bonds, short-term investments, or "other" holdings are updated only by you.
Vanguard funds not held in a brokerage account are held by The Vanguard Group, Inc., and are not protected by SIPC.
*Note on account protection: Securities in your brokerage account are held in custody by Vanguard Brokerage Services®, a division of Vanguard Marketing Corporation, member FINRA and SIPC. Account protection
Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Re: Vanguard site issues
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.Random Poster wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 9:35 amHere are a few reasons why someone might need to have access and waiting another day would not be acceptable:Flannelbeard wrote: ↑Wed Mar 31, 2021 7:25 am I quite literally cannot think of any reason why I would truly need to log in to Vanguard, and couldn't just go back on the next day. I would assume this also applies to most passive investors who are truly following the Bogleheads' strategy.
Need to wire cash to fund a house purchase and the closing date is approaching.
Dying person who wants to make a transfer to someone or something outside of any normal probate process.
Someone trying to set up or accomplish some matter under a court order that has hard deadlines.
And so on.
Whether someone is a passive investor has no relevance to whether an investment website should be consistently available, and that argument seems like more of an excuse than a justification to me.
There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
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Re: Vanguard site issues
I don’t disagree, and I over-funded my house purchase several days before the closing date, but there have been reports here of people having issues with wire transfers going out on a timely basis and with Vanguard complying with court-ordered account transfers.RetiredAL wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:42 pm
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.
There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
My greater point, however, is that people should have confidence in the company where they choose to invest their money and the company should have a robust IT infrastructure to minimize hiccups and downtime.
I think, based on comments here, the former is waning because support in respect of the latter doesn’t seem to exist.
Re: Vanguard site issues
It is always a source of interest in these threads how some folks want to assess fault against the Vanguard "client-owner", rather than Vanguard, when Vanguard fails to deliver. Why is it important whether the poster "needs" to complete a transaction within an hour or a day...perhaps it is simply a matter of convenience for the Vanguard client to log-in to conduct business at a time that they choose. When did we get to become the arbiters of whether a Vanguard client-owner's use of Vanguard services was necessary or reasonable??
I don't know whether Vanguard's website downtimes and malfunctions occur with greater frequency that other brokerages, such as Fidelity and Schwab. I do know that Vanguard does not place much value on customer service in comparison to other brokerages. If Vanguard is going to adhere to their "no evening and weekend telephone hours and no online chat feature" model of customer service, then one might expect that the more limited service that IS available would actually BE available.
And for those who argue that Vanguard can't provide a higher quality interaction with their clients for the low-cost that they charge, you would think that the $7 billion in annual revenue that the Vanguard Group receives each year from Vanguard funds to run the brokerage side would pay for robust, reliable and redundant IT systems. But since the Vanguard Group is the least transparent brokerage when it comes to disclosing expenses, we just don't know where all of that money is spent.
I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
JMHO, others may disagree!
I don't know whether Vanguard's website downtimes and malfunctions occur with greater frequency that other brokerages, such as Fidelity and Schwab. I do know that Vanguard does not place much value on customer service in comparison to other brokerages. If Vanguard is going to adhere to their "no evening and weekend telephone hours and no online chat feature" model of customer service, then one might expect that the more limited service that IS available would actually BE available.
And for those who argue that Vanguard can't provide a higher quality interaction with their clients for the low-cost that they charge, you would think that the $7 billion in annual revenue that the Vanguard Group receives each year from Vanguard funds to run the brokerage side would pay for robust, reliable and redundant IT systems. But since the Vanguard Group is the least transparent brokerage when it comes to disclosing expenses, we just don't know where all of that money is spent.
I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
JMHO, others may disagree!
Re: Vanguard site issues
I feel many (most?) companies customer support, be it IT, telephones, and real people is on the wane. People want low cost, business leaders what higher profit, so squeeze baby squeeze.Random Poster wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 3:05 pmI don’t disagree, and I over-funded my house purchase several days before the closing date, but there have been reports here of people having issues with wire transfers going out on a timely basis and with Vanguard complying with court-ordered account transfers.RetiredAL wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 1:42 pm
IMO, it is foolish for one to wait to the last second to transact for an important planned money event. Any time I've had something really important, I had the $ in hand at our local bank well before the needed date, or confirmed at the brokerage before before that buy.
There are many whaaaa-whaaaa posts here about people assuming money would get moved instantly, and it wasn't.
My greater point, however, is that people should have confidence in the company where they choose to invest their money and the company should have a robust IT infrastructure to minimize hiccups and downtime.
I think, based on comments here, the former is waning because support in respect of the latter doesn’t seem to exist.
When I started investing in the company run 401K, payroll deductions were only once a month and the actual buys were weeks later. You were only allow to transfer between funds once every 6 months. ER's were 1 to 2%. The only view of your account was via paper, which was quarterly. All requests for anything was mailed in forms.
Re: Vanguard site issues
yeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.galawdawg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
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Re: Vanguard site issues
NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.chem wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:42 pmyeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.galawdawg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26351
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Vanguard site issues
+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 amNO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.chem wrote: ↑Fri Apr 02, 2021 5:42 pmyeah, you also make a good point about the Vanguard funds. There is NO REASON AT ALL to stay with Vanguard for their "low fees". You can go to another broker, such as Schwab, and get no-fee share orders, lower fees on options, and still own Vanguard funds in the Schwab account, such as VTI/VXUS/BND ETFs that form the core of a boglehead 3-fund portfolio.galawdawg wrote: ↑Thu Apr 01, 2021 4:06 pm I think this social media exchange (viewtopic.php?p=5911586#p5911586) posted earlier in the thread by chem indeed "sums it up." IMO, Vanguard has reached the point where it has so many (client-owners) and so much (money) that it simply doesn't care anymore. Particularly since even when you take your Vanguard funds and leave for another brokerage, the Vanguard group still gets the same compensation as if you never left. One less client, same fees. Doesn't do much to motivate excellence...
the brokerage market has changed in the past 20 years and Vanguard has not kept up with either features or quality of service. Like, pick one, you know?
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
Re: Vanguard site issues
Well, just to continue the comparison since you both replied; you can auto-invest with Schwab mutual funds with no load or transaction fees, too.ruralavalon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:23 am+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 am NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
S&P 500 funds:
SWPPX (schwab): 0.02% ER
VFIAX (vanguard): 0.04% ER
total us market:
SWTSX 0.03% ER
VTSAX 0.04% ER
total us bond fund:
SWAGX 0.04% ER
VBTLX 0.05% ER
target date index 2050 (but you can pick any date):
SWYMX 0.08% ER
VFIFX 0.15% ER
in every case, Schwab beats Vanguard on fees! So if the argument for Vanguard isn't fees, isn't features, isn't auto-investing, isn't reliability... then what is it? inertia?
- ruralavalon
- Posts: 26351
- Joined: Sat Feb 02, 2008 9:29 am
- Location: Illinois
Re: Vanguard site issues
Yes, some inertia.chem wrote: ↑Sun Apr 04, 2021 7:05 amWell, just to continue the comparison since you both replied; you can auto-invest with Schwab mutual funds with no load or transaction fees, too.ruralavalon wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 10:23 am+ 1. With regular mutual funds, rather than ETFs, you can have both automatic investment of new contributions and automatic reinvestment of dividends and distributed gains. I prefer to have everything on autopilot.Cheez-It Guy wrote: ↑Sat Apr 03, 2021 7:29 am NO REASON AT ALL, . . . unless you prefer regular automatic investment in defined dollar amounts in Vanguard Mutual Funds with no fees, which I do. Nothing beats automatic pilot in accumulation stage. Never had an automatic investment not go through. Set it and forget it.
S&P 500 funds:
SWPPX (schwab): 0.02% ER
VFIAX (vanguard): 0.04% ER
total us market:
SWTSX 0.03% ER
VTSAX 0.04% ER
total us bond fund:
SWAGX 0.04% ER
VBTLX 0.05% ER
target date index 2050 (but you can pick any date):
SWYMX 0.08% ER
VFIFX 0.15% ER
in every case, Schwab beats Vanguard on fees! So if the argument for Vanguard isn't fees, isn't features, isn't auto-investing, isn't reliability... then what is it? inertia?
The very small difference in expense ratios is not enough to make the idea of change attractive. For example the 0.01% smaller expense ratio at Schwab for a total U.S. stock market index funds has not produced any benefit in returns. Portfolio Visualizer, 2001-2021. Likewise the 0.01% lower expense ratio at Schwab for a total bond market index fund has not produced any benefit in returns. Portfolio Visualizer, 2018-2021. So a little lower expense ratio is no reason to change.
Also Schwab does not offer a total international stock index fund or a small-cap value index fund. We use both types of index funds at Vanguard.
I have always found both the Vanguard website and app more than adequate for our needs, and in my experience Vanguard customer service has always been prompt, courteous and professional. I have never experienced a hold time longer than a couple of minutes.
I almost never need any customer service, I call less than once per year. Vanguard works great for a buy and hold, stay the course, style of investing. I love simplicity and having everything on autopilot.
I don't say that Schwab is bad. Schwab isn't bad, it's just not better for me. I often say that Vanguard, Fidelity and Schwab are all good choices for fund firms to use, and the choice among them is largely a matter of personal preference.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein |
Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy