500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
- xraygoggles
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500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
My brother has a 500k portfolio, made up of various high-ER, non-diversified mutual funds that were chosen by his advisor. I've explained to him the Boglehead way of keeping things low-cost, diversified, and simple. He seems to grasp the concept, but his current portfolio pays for his monthly living expenses (~3k).
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income? His current portfolio receives that income in the form of monthly rental income from REITs, along with some closed-end funds, and various high-risk bonds (including junks and emerging markets!).
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income? His current portfolio receives that income in the form of monthly rental income from REITs, along with some closed-end funds, and various high-risk bonds (including junks and emerging markets!).
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
That’s a 7% withdrawal rate. Hard to do that safely for more than 15 years. How old is he?
- retired@50
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
He'd need a yield of 7.2%. This seems like a bit of a stretch with regular index funds. To squeeze that much yield from his portfolio, the adviser has done what's necessary, which is take on risk.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income?
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
We could generate 3k/mo on 500K with REITs? Seems better than Bogl...never mind.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
I mean.. you are trying to squeeze ~7% CAVG (and hoping for no extended periods of downturns [remember, just cause asset X goes up over 7% CAVG does not imply one can take out over 7% CAVG. When you take out money when asset prices fall, you are exaggerating the lower returns of that asset]) to get that kind of return.
The math just doesn't make sense without taking far more risk than the market risk itself (and statistically you would be far worse off taking this bet)
On a extreme side of things:
I for once wish to take out $80k a year from $100k assets perpetually. But the math with historical data using traditional means just doesn't work out.
It's hard to create mathematical situations in which traditional means just doesn't work without taking a lot more risk (and hoping to be the 'winner' from the bet which statistically does not favor you).
It's more prudent to accept that he should take out about $20k a year from the $500k instead of 'hoping for the best' and taking out $36k a year from the $500k.
The math just doesn't make sense without taking far more risk than the market risk itself (and statistically you would be far worse off taking this bet)
On a extreme side of things:
I for once wish to take out $80k a year from $100k assets perpetually. But the math with historical data using traditional means just doesn't work out.
It's hard to create mathematical situations in which traditional means just doesn't work without taking a lot more risk (and hoping to be the 'winner' from the bet which statistically does not favor you).
It's more prudent to accept that he should take out about $20k a year from the $500k instead of 'hoping for the best' and taking out $36k a year from the $500k.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Looks like a portfolio mostly of higher yielding funds. I don't see how you can recreate this and remain diversified. My REITs are paying me around 2-3% a year. My preferred pay me about 5%. I have one holding that can do this, and that is an individual stock. I bought MO when it had a yield of 8%. It's now in the high 6% range. That could do it, but it's not at all diversified.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am My brother has a 500k portfolio, made up of various high-ER, non-diversified mutual funds that were chosen by his advisor. I've explained to him the Boglehead way of keeping things low-cost, diversified, and simple. He seems to grasp the concept, but his current portfolio pays for his monthly living expenses (~3k).
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income? His current portfolio receives that income in the form of monthly rental income from REITs, along with some closed-end funds, and various high-risk bonds (including junks and emerging markets!).
Most market index funds yield between 0.5% and 1.5%. And investment grade bond funds are about the same. You need a 6% or greater yield that still generates $3k a month after taxes.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
There is no free lunch, that is not enough capital to get 3k/month by using safer diversified funds.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
How old is your brother? he has about 50/50 chance of running out in 20 years and about a 75% chance of running out in 30 years
If he’s pre Soc security, or banking on an inheritance in the future so the withdrawal rate is going to go down at some point it could be feasible or perhaps some health problems and a life expectancy under 15 years but we need more information.
My mother retired at 58 with about 6.5% withdrawal rate but she planned to do that only until 62 when she can get soc security then she will drop her withdrawal rate in roughly half.
If he’s pre Soc security, or banking on an inheritance in the future so the withdrawal rate is going to go down at some point it could be feasible or perhaps some health problems and a life expectancy under 15 years but we need more information.
My mother retired at 58 with about 6.5% withdrawal rate but she planned to do that only until 62 when she can get soc security then she will drop her withdrawal rate in roughly half.
Last edited by Wk1014 on Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:12 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Sure. A 70/30 portfolio of S&P 500 and Total Bond has yielded 9.4% on average over the last 100 years. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation. Netting out inflation, that's a bit more than his withdrawl rate.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am My brother has a 500k portfolio, made up of various high-ER, non-diversified mutual funds that were chosen by his advisor. I've explained to him the Boglehead way of keeping things low-cost, diversified, and simple. He seems to grasp the concept, but his current portfolio pays for his monthly living expenses (~3k).
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income? His current portfolio receives that income in the form of monthly rental income from REITs, along with some closed-end funds, and various high-risk bonds (including junks and emerging markets!).
Problem is, the next 10, 20, 30 years might not be "average' and he could go broke. But, given that he's in a bunch of high cost funds and junk bonds, i suspect if the bottom fell out, your brother would be no worse off, perhaps better, than what he's in now. Neither is a safe position to be in.
At the end of the day, I'd stay away from this. What he has is working -- for now -- and you can't be blamed if it fails. If you want to help, I'd give your brother a reading list from the wiki and not specific advice.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
That’s not the yield though, that’s the total return. OP wants to know if his brother can match the 7.2% by distributions alone (which it can’t do safely).Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm Sure. A 70/30 portfolio of S&P 500 and Total Bond has yielded 9.4% on average over the last 100 years. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation. Netting out inflation, that's a bit more than his withdrawl rate.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Did he ask for your help? I’d stay out of it. Whatever he’s doing seems to be working for him now, and if he changes things at your suggestion and then does worse, he may blame you. If he wants to know his options, tell him to come to this forum and he can learn for himself. Good luck.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
There's no functional difference if you're taking the distributions from dividends or capital appreciation. As long as the market keeps going up and companies keep paying dividends and bond issuers keep meeting obligations, you'll be fine either way. If not, you could be in a world of hurt with either approach. I think a diversified 70/30 portfolio is safer than what little I know about the current alternative.TropikThunder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:18 pmThat’s not the yield though, that’s the total return. OP wants to know if his brother can match the 7.2% by distributions alone (which it can’t do safely).Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm Sure. A 70/30 portfolio of S&P 500 and Total Bond has yielded 9.4% on average over the last 100 years. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation. Netting out inflation, that's a bit more than his withdrawl rate.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Some questions:
1) What does your brother pay this "advisor" in fee?
2) What is your brother's appetite or tolerance for risk?
3) How long your brother need this income for ? 10 years? 20 years ? 30 years?
Historically Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund Admiral Shares (VWIAX) has average 7+% in return for the 10 years. Only 0.23% expense rate. It is very diversified, balanced and low fee fund from stock market prospective.
But it may not continue . The fund did go down 2.5% in 2018 and 9+% in 2008. In those years your brother may need to use his principal. Which will probably be same with his current advisor based portfolio.
1) What does your brother pay this "advisor" in fee?
2) What is your brother's appetite or tolerance for risk?
3) How long your brother need this income for ? 10 years? 20 years ? 30 years?
Historically Vanguard Wellesley Income Fund Admiral Shares (VWIAX) has average 7+% in return for the 10 years. Only 0.23% expense rate. It is very diversified, balanced and low fee fund from stock market prospective.
But it may not continue . The fund did go down 2.5% in 2018 and 9+% in 2008. In those years your brother may need to use his principal. Which will probably be same with his current advisor based portfolio.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
++1
tashnewbie wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:22 pm Did he ask for your help? I’d stay out of it. Whatever he’s doing seems to be working for him now, and if he changes things at your suggestion and then does worse, he may blame you. If he wants to know his options, tell him to come to this forum and he can learn for himself. Good luck.
- xraygoggles
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Thanks for the responses, it sounds like I should just leave it alone.
But to answer some of the questions, he is young (mid-30s), has low-medium risk tolerance, lives in a LCOL area in the US, and works part time, because he doesn't need to work FT. Not sure about the advisor fee, but I'm guessing 1-2%? He is still adding monthly to it, but now in a separate portfolio adding VTI.
Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
Appreciate the advice!
But to answer some of the questions, he is young (mid-30s), has low-medium risk tolerance, lives in a LCOL area in the US, and works part time, because he doesn't need to work FT. Not sure about the advisor fee, but I'm guessing 1-2%? He is still adding monthly to it, but now in a separate portfolio adding VTI.
Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
Appreciate the advice!
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
There’s a school of thought that some on this forum have that you should never get involved in your family‘s business. That’s not my definition of family. If you see a family member in danger, you get involved to help them. There is nothing wrong with you talking to your brother and presenting him ideas and options and letting him choose. But the idea of just staying away and not even trying to help him runs counter to my definition of family. I think it’s a wonderful thing that you’re concerned and trying to help.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
...aye, there’s the rub.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:12 pm he is young (mid-30s), has low-medium risk tolerance, lives in a LCOL area in the US, and works part time, because he doesn't need to work FT.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Agree. But there's a big difference in leaving a trail of breadcrumbs in the form of suggested reading list or referring them to Vanguard PAS vs. offering specific financial advice. The former is fine; the latter is fraught with family peril and possible liability if things get ugly.abyan wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:18 pm There’s a school of thought that some on this forum have that you should never get involved in your family‘s business. That’s not my definition of family. If you see a family member in danger, you get involved to help them. There is nothing wrong with you talking to your brother and presenting him ideas and options and letting him choose. But the idea of just staying away and not even trying to help him runs counter to my definition of family. I think it’s a wonderful thing that you’re concerned and trying to help.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Seems like he's headed in the right direction. 3 weeks later we'll have a new Boglehead.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:12 pm Thanks for the responses, it sounds like I should just leave it alone.
But to answer some of the questions, he is young (mid-30s), has low-medium risk tolerance, lives in a LCOL area in the US, and works part time, because he doesn't need to work FT. Not sure about the advisor fee, but I'm guessing 1-2%? He is still adding monthly to it, but now in a separate portfolio adding VTI.
Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
Appreciate the advice!
- Taylor Larimore
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The Three-Fund Portfolio
Marseille07:Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
This is a link to the many benefits of The Three-Fund Portfolio:
viewtopic.php?t=88005
Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "There may be better investment strategies than owning just three broad-based index funds but the number of strategies that are worse is infinite."
"Simplicity is the master key to financial success." -- Jack Bogle
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Re: The Three-Fund Portfolio
Thank you Taylor. Let's also make sure this OP person is aware.Taylor Larimore wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:57 pmMarseille07:Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
This is a link to the many benefits of The Three-Fund Portfolio:
viewtopic.php?t=88005
Best wishes.
TaylorJack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: "There may be better investment strategies than owning just three broad-based index funds but the number of strategies that are worse is infinite."
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
No.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income?
I guess you could try to roll the dice on going all-in on tobacco stocks.
But yikes.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Hmm, that might not be a bad idea. I know you are being sarcastic, but it seems highly unlikely for Altria to go under within the next 20 years, right?watchnerd wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 pmNo.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income?
I guess you could try to roll the dice on going all-in on tobacco stocks.
But yikes.
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
I'm not going to touch that.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:14 pmHmm, that might not be a bad idea. I know you are being sarcastic, but it seems highly unlikely for Altria to go under within the next 20 years, right?watchnerd wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 pmNo.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income?
I guess you could try to roll the dice on going all-in on tobacco stocks.
But yikes.
I have no knowledge of Altria's current business.
Global stocks, IG/HY bonds, gold & digital assets at market weights 75% / 19% / 6% || LMP: TIPS ladder
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Fair.watchnerd wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:18 pmI'm not going to touch that.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:14 pmHmm, that might not be a bad idea. I know you are being sarcastic, but it seems highly unlikely for Altria to go under within the next 20 years, right?watchnerd wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 8:05 pmNo.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 11:10 am Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income?
I guess you could try to roll the dice on going all-in on tobacco stocks.
But yikes.
I have no knowledge of Altria's current business.
I'm just spitballin' and trying to think of better alternatives, so that if/when he asks me for advice again in the future, I have some options aside from the 3-fund. Preferred stock is also not a bad alternative. Keeping in mind I'm referring to better alternatives to closed-end funds and emerging market debt.
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
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Re: The Three-Fund Portfolio
Thank you, this is a great post to share!Taylor Larimore wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:57 pm This is a link to the many benefits of The Three-Fund Portfolio:
viewtopic.php?t=88005
Best wishes.
Taylor
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
There's no shortcut without taking a lot of risk, because your brother is trying to withdraw 7.2%. Right now he's doing yields play - but there are two issues with this.
a) yields might not hold at 7.2% on average
b) high yields = high risk, which means the 500K of portfolio value might not hold
If we believe SPY would continue performing at the same rate, all-in SPY might not be a terrible idea: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion1_1=100
Why aren't I doing this myself, it came out better than I thought
a) yields might not hold at 7.2% on average
b) high yields = high risk, which means the 500K of portfolio value might not hold
If we believe SPY would continue performing at the same rate, all-in SPY might not be a terrible idea: https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion1_1=100
Why aren't I doing this myself, it came out better than I thought
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Something doesn't jive with the portfolio description in the first post, and the risk tolerance description in the second post...???xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 7:12 pm
My brother has a 500k portfolio, made up of various high-ER, non-diversified mutual funds that were chosen by his advisor. I've explained to him the Boglehead way of keeping things low-cost, diversified, and simple. He seems to grasp the concept, but his current portfolio pays for his monthly living expenses (~3k).
Is it possible to create a Boglehead portfolio with 500k that would provide the same income? His current portfolio receives that income in the form of monthly rental income from REITs, along with some closed-end funds, and various high-risk bonds (including junks and emerging markets!).
.....
Thanks for the responses, it sounds like I should just leave it alone.
But to answer some of the questions, he is young (mid-30s), has low-medium risk tolerance, lives in a LCOL area in the US, and works part time, because he doesn't need to work FT. Not sure about the advisor fee, but I'm guessing 1-2%? He is still adding monthly to it, but now in a separate portfolio adding VTI.
Maybe once the portfolio gets a little larger, he can switch over to a 3-fund portfolio...
Appreciate the advice!
Does your brother actually understand the risk in his portfolio? Does the adviser?
If he's only in his mid 30s, he could be an investor for another 60 years. I think he has time to learn, save a bit more, and handle things on his own without paying an adviser.
Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
I'm curious about what mutual funds he is specifically invested in to produce this 7% yield. US junk bonds will probably produce about 5% at the moment. REITs probably won't produce anything close to this without leverage. He is obviously taking a lot of risk to produce this yield. I am afraid that he might also be taking this risk inefficiently, which will worsen his long term prospects even further.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
I guess I question whether he's actually getting that kind of yield versus yield + growth which wouldn't be sustainable if the market cooled off or went into a protracted downturn but without knowing what the current holdings are it's just speculation.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
And how, may I ask, is that going?Wk1014 wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:07 pm How old is your brother? he has about 50/50 chance of running out in 20 years and about a 75% chance of running out in 30 years
If he’s pre Soc security, or banking on an inheritance in the future so the withdrawal rate is going to go down at some point it could be feasible or perhaps some health problems and a life expectancy under 15 years but we need more information.
My mother retired at 58 with about 6.5% withdrawal rate but she planned to do that only until 62 when she can get soc security then she will drop her withdrawal rate in roughly half.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
What are his specific investments?
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
OP, you may wish to point your brother at this very helpful short booklet, written in 2014 and provided free by its author Bill Bernstein. I found this very helpful when I was 30 and I think everyone should give it a read.
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
It's a concise explanation of risk, including the risk posed by unscrupulous advisors, and explains why the 3 fund portfolio is a good choice.
https://www.etf.com/docs/IfYouCan.pdf
It's a concise explanation of risk, including the risk posed by unscrupulous advisors, and explains why the 3 fund portfolio is a good choice.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Vanguard LIfeStrategy Conservative Growth (VSCGX, ER 0.13%, 40/60 allocation) has had an average annual return of 7.05% since inception in 1994. Vanguard LIfeStrategy Moderate Growth (VSMGX, ER 0.13%, 60/40 allocation) has had an average annual return of 7.89% since inception in 1994.
Those may be two options to consider.
Those may be two options to consider.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
He is not into investing, so he has no idea about the actual funds listed or their risk profile.
I have listed them below:
AGNC Investment Corp AGNC
Annaly Capital Management, Inc. NLY
ArcelorMittal SA MT
Blackrock Corporate High Yield Fund Inc HYT
BlackRock Debt Strategies Fund, Inc. DSU
BlackRock Resources&Commdts Strtgy Trst BCX
Brookfield Real Assets Income Closed Fund RA
Eaton Vance Ltd Duration Income Fund EVV
Eaton Vance Tax Managed Diversified Eq. ETY
Eaton Vance Tax-Managed Global Dive Eq EXG
Gamco Natural Resources Gold & Incm Trst GNT
Global X SuperIncome Preferred Etf SPFF
Liberty All-Star Equity Fund common stock USA
MFS Charter Income Trust MCR
Pimco Dynamic Credit and MortggeIncmFund PCI
Pimco Income Strategy Fund II PFN
Western Asset Global High Income Fnd Inc EHI
Western Asst High Incm Opprtnty Fnd Inc. HIO
Western Asset High Yield Dfnd Opp FI HYI
I have listed them below:
AGNC Investment Corp AGNC
Annaly Capital Management, Inc. NLY
ArcelorMittal SA MT
Blackrock Corporate High Yield Fund Inc HYT
BlackRock Debt Strategies Fund, Inc. DSU
BlackRock Resources&Commdts Strtgy Trst BCX
Brookfield Real Assets Income Closed Fund RA
Eaton Vance Ltd Duration Income Fund EVV
Eaton Vance Tax Managed Diversified Eq. ETY
Eaton Vance Tax-Managed Global Dive Eq EXG
Gamco Natural Resources Gold & Incm Trst GNT
Global X SuperIncome Preferred Etf SPFF
Liberty All-Star Equity Fund common stock USA
MFS Charter Income Trust MCR
Pimco Dynamic Credit and MortggeIncmFund PCI
Pimco Income Strategy Fund II PFN
Western Asset Global High Income Fnd Inc EHI
Western Asst High Incm Opprtnty Fnd Inc. HIO
Western Asset High Yield Dfnd Opp FI HYI
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
I assumed that the yields in that chart showed total return with all dividends/interest/capital gains reinvested.Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:26 pmThere's no functional difference if you're taking the distributions from dividends or capital appreciation. As long as the market keeps going up and companies keep paying dividends and bond issuers keep meeting obligations, you'll be fine either way. If not, you could be in a world of hurt with either approach. I think a diversified 70/30 portfolio is safer than what little I know about the current alternative.TropikThunder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:18 pmThat’s not the yield though, that’s the total return. OP wants to know if his brother can match the 7.2% by distributions alone (which it can’t do safely).Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm Sure. A 70/30 portfolio of S&P 500 and Total Bond has yielded 9.4% on average over the last 100 years. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation. Netting out inflation, that's a bit more than his withdrawl rate.
Once you start taking withdrawals, the return noted wouldn’t be accurate.
One thing that humbles me deeply is to see that human genius has its limits while human stupidity does not. - Alexandre Dumas, fils
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Is there a convenient site where I can input a bunch of different funds/stocks and see what the yield would be in aggregate? That would be useful I think.
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Posters already pointed out the yields aren't free. You take a hit somewhere else, as there's no such thing as free lunch.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:25 am Is there a convenient site where I can input a bunch of different funds/stocks and see what the yield would be in aggregate? That would be useful I think.
Your brother is doing the right thing by slowly shifting toward VTI.
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
The expected return on the remaining invested balance will be the same. Of course you won’t continue to see growth and compounding of principle going forward. But, if all goes well you can take your annual distributions at the expected rate of return with no reduction in principle indefinitely.delamer wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 10:51 amI assumed that the yields in that chart showed total return with all dividends/interest/capital gains reinvested.Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:26 pmThere's no functional difference if you're taking the distributions from dividends or capital appreciation. As long as the market keeps going up and companies keep paying dividends and bond issuers keep meeting obligations, you'll be fine either way. If not, you could be in a world of hurt with either approach. I think a diversified 70/30 portfolio is safer than what little I know about the current alternative.TropikThunder wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:18 pmThat’s not the yield though, that’s the total return. OP wants to know if his brother can match the 7.2% by distributions alone (which it can’t do safely).Outer Marker wrote: ↑Sat Mar 27, 2021 12:09 pm Sure. A 70/30 portfolio of S&P 500 and Total Bond has yielded 9.4% on average over the last 100 years. https://investor.vanguard.com/investing ... allocation. Netting out inflation, that's a bit more than his withdrawl rate.
Once you start taking withdrawals, the return noted wouldn’t be accurate.
- xraygoggles
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Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
Marseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:30 amPosters already pointed out the yields aren't free. You take a hit somewhere else, as there's no such thing as free lunch.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:25 am Is there a convenient site where I can input a bunch of different funds/stocks and see what the yield would be in aggregate? That would be useful I think.
Your brother is doing the right thing by slowly shifting toward VTI.
Yes, I understand that. It would still be nice to have some site like that, for reference.
Simplicity is the key to brilliance - Vti & chill.
Re: 500k portfolio needing 3k/month income.
OP, you mentioned earlier that your brother is not the investing type and hence he has worked with an advisor to construct a portfolio that works for him, paying for his monthly expenses. I can’t answer your question as I’m unaware of a site that can give such details, but if you or your brother took a bit of time to do some research, you could build a portfolio of 50 or so stocks that would yield close to 5-6% on the $500k. And you don’t have to pay any advisor fees or high EFs on any risky mutual funds.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 2:23 pmMarseille07 wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:30 amPosters already pointed out the yields aren't free. You take a hit somewhere else, as there's no such thing as free lunch.xraygoggles wrote: ↑Sun Mar 28, 2021 11:25 am Is there a convenient site where I can input a bunch of different funds/stocks and see what the yield would be in aggregate? That would be useful I think.
Your brother is doing the right thing by slowly shifting toward VTI.
Yes, I understand that. It would still be nice to have some site like that, for reference.
This also means you are spreading the risk and not loading up on a single group of stocks like oil, tobacco or REITs.
But who has time to research and build such a portfolio, not to mention you would need to do a fair amount of maintenance and monitoring, in case one or more of the companies cuts/eliminates its dividend or worse, goes bust.
One suggestion would be, put $250k in IDV, $250k in SPYD and all new money goes to VTI or ITOT. The IDV/SPYD portfolio would yield close to 5%.
40% SPY | 10% stonks | 50% Cash