Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

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LSLover
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by LSLover »

militaryman wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:23 am Is anyone having issues logging into their Income Driver Notes account?

Just spinning here! :annoyed

Try starting here: https://www.incomedrivernotes.com/en.html
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White Coat Investor
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by White Coat Investor »

grayparrot wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:21 pm I understand that these are senior unsecured debt, but available essentially on-demand so free of interest rate risk. The current rate of 1.5% is obviously very attractive in the current environment. Has anybody had experience with the platform, reliability of access to funds, etc?
Really? 1.5% is attractive for an unsecured debt? I don't find that attractive at all. You know you can lend money against real estate for 10%+, right? Secured by the value of the property?

And 10 year treasuries are yielding 1.6% (state tax free)? And Vanguard's intermediate corporate bond fund is yielding 2.16% for a diversified portfolio?

What am I missing? Why do you find these attractive? Are you only comparing them to cash? Are you really comfortable with unsecured debt for your cash needs? I'm not. Mine is either in a MMF or an FDIC insured savings account.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by retired@50 »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am
grayparrot wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:21 pm I understand that these are senior unsecured debt, but available essentially on-demand so free of interest rate risk. The current rate of 1.5% is obviously very attractive in the current environment. Has anybody had experience with the platform, reliability of access to funds, etc?
Really? 1.5% is attractive for an unsecured debt? I don't find that attractive at all. You know you can lend money against real estate for 10%+, right? Secured by the value of the property?

And 10 year treasuries are yielding 1.6% (state tax free)? And Vanguard's intermediate corporate bond fund is yielding 2.16% for a diversified portfolio?

What am I missing? Why do you find these attractive? Are you only comparing them to cash? Are you really comfortable with unsecured debt for your cash needs? I'm not. Mine is either in a MMF or an FDIC insured savings account.
+1
I pointed out a somewhat concerning passage in the prospectus back on page 1 of this thread.
Yet the yield chasing continues, unabated.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
lakpr
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by lakpr »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am
grayparrot wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:21 pm I understand that these are senior unsecured debt, but available essentially on-demand so free of interest rate risk. The current rate of 1.5% is obviously very attractive in the current environment. Has anybody had experience with the platform, reliability of access to funds, etc?
Really? 1.5% is attractive for an unsecured debt? I don't find that attractive at all. You know you can lend money against real estate for 10%+, right? Secured by the value of the property?

And 10 year treasuries are yielding 1.6% (state tax free)? And Vanguard's intermediate corporate bond fund is yielding 2.16% for a diversified portfolio?

What am I missing? Why do you find these attractive? Are you only comparing them to cash? Are you really comfortable with unsecured debt for your cash needs? I'm not. Mine is either in a MMF or an FDIC insured savings account.
I am not @grayparrot, but yes the proper comparison of these unsecured debt notes is indeed with cash. 10-year treasuries carry long term interest rate risk, intermediate term corporate bonds carry both counterparty risk and interest rate risk, lending money against real-estate (for 10%??) is illiquid investment.

The only knock I can think of against these unsecured debt notes is that it is not FDIC insured, but otherwise investing in these notes is the same as investing in money-market funds. Highly liquid, put money in today and withdraw tomorrow and NOT be worried that within that one day, or one month, you have lost some of your principal due to market fluctuations.
stay_the_course
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by stay_the_course »

militaryman wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:23 am Is anyone having issues logging into their Income Driver Notes account?

Just spinning here! :annoyed
Try the link you get in your welcome email https://www.eaccountservices.com/incomedrivernotes (h/t Stinky upthread). Though it seems to redirect to the same page this link worked for me to login.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by tim1999 »

militaryman wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 10:23 am Is anyone having issues logging into their Income Driver Notes account?

Just spinning here! :annoyed
I had an issue logging in with Chrome this morning - it wanted to send an email to verify my identity, which is odd since I log in all the time with Chrome and tell it to "remember this computer". The email never came. I then tried logging in with Edge and it went right into the account with no verification.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by militaryman »

Thanks! I got in on a mobile device browser fine but Desktop Chrome was a no go today for me.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by tbradnc »

If you have an account here I have a question:

When you transfer new money in do you buy a new note or add it to the existing note?

I have 1 note and just keep adding to it.
stay_the_course
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by stay_the_course »

tbradnc wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 12:21 pm If you have an account here I have a question:

When you transfer new money in do you buy a new note or add it to the existing note?

I have 1 note and just keep adding to it.
Just keep adding to it, I did not realize you could open a new one.
anonsdca
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by anonsdca »

tbradnc wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:34 am For those of you putting money here - how many notes do you have in your account?

I've got 1 note and when I transfer money in I add it to the existing note.

I notice that there is an option to create a "new enrollment" which I suspect would create a new note.

Is there an advantage to having multiple notes?
I have made two deposits but I only have one note. However, I do see the correct balance of both deposits.
Zosima
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Zosima »

lakpr wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:52 am
I am not @grayparrot, but yes the proper comparison of these unsecured debt notes is indeed with cash. 10-year treasuries carry long term interest rate risk, intermediate term corporate bonds carry both counterparty risk and interest rate risk, lending money against real-estate (for 10%??) is illiquid investment.

The only knock I can think of against these unsecured debt notes is that it is not FDIC insured, but otherwise investing in these notes is the same as investing in money-market funds. Highly liquid, put money in today and withdraw tomorrow and NOT be worried that within that one day, or one month, you have lost some of your principal due to market fluctuations.
+1. There are senior unsecured short-term demand notes of Toyota Motor Credit Corporation (TMCC). I view these as undiversified commercial paper, which is similar to a "prime" money market with concentrated credit risk. They have zero duration and zero interest rate risk.

I am comfortable with the credit risk due to the A+ rating on other TMCC senior unsecured debt and that other short-term senior unsecured debt of TMCC is trading at approximately 0.30%. I do monitor the trading of similarly situated TMCC notes and credit rating reports on TMCC so I intend to sell at the first signs of trouble. I do not keep grocery money in Toyota Income Demand Notes but I do find them attractive compared to HYSAs for cash-like liquid assets.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

gjlynch17 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:42 pm I am comfortable with the credit risk due to the A+ rating on other TMCC senior unsecured debt and that other short-term senior unsecured debt of TMCC is trading at approximately 0.30%. I do monitor the trading of similarly situated TMCC notes and credit rating reports on TMCC
Thanks for your post.

Can you share the sites that you use to monitor TMCC’s credit rating reports and the trading of similar TMCC notes? I can look too but would appreciate the benefits of your wisdom.
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Zosima
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Zosima »

Stinky wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:56 pm Can you share the sites that you use to monitor TMCC’s credit rating reports and the trading of similar TMCC notes? I can look too but would appreciate the benefits of your wisdom.
For credit monitoring, I primarily use Moody's. I believe you have to register but it is free.

https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/T ... 50/summary

For rates, I primarily use Fidelity's fixed income search tool but one could use Vanguard's, Schwab's or another broker also. I have not traded individual corporate notes/bonds but TMCC's seem to be fairly illiquid (high bid-ask spread) which may be common for corporate notes.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

gjlynch17 wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 6:05 pm
Stinky wrote: Fri Apr 16, 2021 5:56 pm Can you share the sites that you use to monitor TMCC’s credit rating reports and the trading of similar TMCC notes? I can look too but would appreciate the benefits of your wisdom.
For credit monitoring, I primarily use Moody's. I believe you have to register but it is free.

https://www.moodys.com/credit-ratings/T ... 50/summary

For rates, I primarily use Fidelity's fixed income search tool but one could use Vanguard's, Schwab's or another broker also. I have not traded individual corporate notes/bonds but TMCC's seem to be fairly illiquid (high bid-ask spread) which may be common for corporate notes.
Thank you for sharing the link to the Moodys website. As expected, most of press releases are “locked” and available only to subscribers.

However, one relevant press release is unlocked. In March, Moodys affirmed the ratings of TMCC and upgraded its outlook from “negative” to “stable”. The release also noted the explicit financial support agreement from Toyota Motor Corporation to TMCC.

I believe that all of this bodes well for the Notes program.

Here is the press release: https://www.moodys.com/research/Moodys- ... -PR_442336
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Tingting1013
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Tingting1013 »

RetiredNewbie wrote: Wed Mar 03, 2021 11:33 am Even though I consider myself risk-averse, I applied because I believe that there is an extremely small chance that Toyota will default on their notes. Their long-standing commitment to quality demonstrates to me that they care about their reputation. I would not buy this type of note from Ford, because in my observation quality hasn’t meant much to Ford in many years; from what I have seen in their dealings with my family and neighbors.
There is another point of view on this.

Toyota, while a pioneer in hybrids, is far behind the curve on all electric vehicles (I’m not counting the Mirai which is only sold in California).

Ford, meanwhile, is having a hugely successful launch of the Mach-E, which almost outsold Tesla last month.

The stock price of each company in the past year should give you an indication of how the market sees each company’s long term prospects, which has a directly impact on the cost of capital (and credit) of the two companies.

https://www.portfoliovisualizer.com/bac ... ion2_2=100
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Thomas93 »

tbradnc wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:34 am For those of you putting money here - how many notes do you have in your account?

I've got 1 note and when I transfer money in I add it to the existing note.

I notice that there is an option to create a "new enrollment" which I suspect would create a new note.

Is there an advantage to having multiple notes?
I'm wondering the same thing. Is there a difference between adding money to an existing note? versus creating a new note?
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

Thomas93 wrote: Mon Apr 26, 2021 7:03 pm
tbradnc wrote: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:34 am For those of you putting money here - how many notes do you have in your account?

I've got 1 note and when I transfer money in I add it to the existing note.

I notice that there is an option to create a "new enrollment" which I suspect would create a new note.

Is there an advantage to having multiple notes?
I'm wondering the same thing. Is there a difference between adding money to an existing note? versus creating a new note?
I have made several deposits, all into the same "note".

I don't know of any advantages to having more than one note. And, to me, the disadvantage of having more than one note would be additional complexity.
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Thomas93
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Thomas93 »

How quickly are the funds available once the Toyota income driver note is purchased? How easily can the funds be redeemed?
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

Thomas93 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:20 am How quickly are the funds available once the Toyota income driver note is purchased? How easily can the funds be redeemed?
Look upthread. Several folks (myself included) have posted about the timelines we’ve experienced, for initial account opening, subsequent deposits, and withdrawals.
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Thomas93
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Thomas93 »

Stinky wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:51 am
Thomas93 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:20 am How quickly are the funds available once the Toyota income driver note is purchased? How easily can the funds be redeemed?
Look upthread. Several folks (myself included) have posted about the timelines we’ve experienced, for initial account opening, subsequent deposits, and withdrawals.
I just looked upthread and read your posts. Thanks so much for posting so much useful information. I will add my own timeline. These appear to be a great substitute to a money market fund if one is okay taking on a little bit of credit risk.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Bronco Billy »

White Coat Investor wrote: Thu Apr 15, 2021 11:15 am
grayparrot wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 8:21 pm
Really? 1.5% is attractive for an unsecured debt? Are you only comparing them to cash? Are you really comfortable with unsecured debt for your cash needs? I'm not. Mine is either in a MMF or an FDIC insured savings account.
Can you tell me where you find MF or ETF that are FDIC insured. I hear everyone worried about being FDIC iinsured but most of my money is in the MARKET and its not protected by FDIC.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Thomas93 »

Stinky wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:51 am
Thomas93 wrote: Tue Apr 27, 2021 10:20 am How quickly are the funds available once the Toyota income driver note is purchased? How easily can the funds be redeemed?
Look upthread. Several folks (myself included) have posted about the timelines we’ve experienced, for initial account opening, subsequent deposits, and withdrawals.
Is it just an easy to use electronic interface for redemption? I don't think anyone has posted on that. I ask because in past comments threads on this site people have mentioned I think that it's slightly inconvenient to redeem a CD from Ally bank where you have to call up or something like that. Also that CDs auto renew. So I'm wondering what the ease is to redeem funds for anyone that has had experience. Thanks!
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

Thomas93 wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 7:02 am Is it just an easy to use electronic interface for redemption? I don't think anyone has posted on that. I ask because in past comments threads on this site people have mentioned I think that it's slightly inconvenient to redeem a CD from Ally bank where you have to call up or something like that. Also that CDs auto renew. So I'm wondering what the ease is to redeem funds for anyone that has had experience. Thanks!
Yes, I did a small "test withdrawal" that I reported on upthread. Here were my results. To my surprise, it was 1 day turnaround - all electronic - very easy.
Stinky wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:42 am
My ACH transfer request from Toyota to my bank went very quickly. I submitted to Toyota before 7:30am yesterday morning (Tuesday), and the funds are in my bank account this morning.
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smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

I did the initial funding of the note, and I do see those funds listed under the "Ledger Balance".
Question: When will that show also as an "Available Balance"?

Does the "Ledger Balance" mean that the note is not yet funded with my ACH influx of money, and I won't be getting any interest for all the days while it's showing in this state? Or is this Ledger thing only a way to indicate that funds would not be available for redemption / withdrawal?

Thank you.
Last edited by smihaila on Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:43 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

smihaila wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 2:42 pm I did the initial funding of the note, and I do see those funds listed under the "Ledger Balance".
Question: When will that show also as an "Available Balance"?

Does the "Ledger Balance" mean that the note is not yet funded with my ACH influx of money, and I won't be getting any interest for all the days while it's showing in this state? Or is this Ledger thing only a way to indicate that funds would not be available for redemption / withdrawal?

Thank you.
In my experience, “ledger” balance becomes “available” on the second following business day.

I believe that your deposits earn interest from the day that they become “ledger” deposits, but I can’t recall how I formed that opinion.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Stinky wrote: Wed Apr 28, 2021 5:42 pm In my experience, “ledger” balance becomes “available” on the second following business day.

I believe that your deposits earn interest from the day that they become “ledger” deposits, but I can’t recall how I formed that opinion.
I've been waiting only for 1 business day so far, but I'll give it another day.
Thanks so much for the explanation.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

I've now discovered that the funding methods for the Toyota IncomeDriver Notes, are rather limited.
You cannot have more than 1 external account linked for ACH transfer purposes.

And, should you wish to replace the existing one with another, you would have to print paper form, send by snail mail (or in best case, by e-mail). What a bunch of old school and archaic system!

This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

smihaila wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
Just curious - have you decided where your $500k is going to go?
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smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Stinky wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 am
smihaila wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
Just curious - have you decided where your $500k is going to go?
No alternative identified for the moment, unfortunately.

In the meantime, I also asked Toyota Financial Services whether each note can have some ACH routing + account number associated to it. Or, if push transfers could be initiated from another financial institution via a Bill Payment feature (I've noticed there are two bill payees named "Toyota Financial Services". But no reply so far.

I guess the only alternative is GM Unsecured notes, other paltry credit unions with their miserable 0.55%, or ... stock market / VTI (as much as I wanted to stay away from the latter) :-(.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by anon_investor »

smihaila wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 am
smihaila wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
Just curious - have you decided where your $500k is going to go?
No alternative identified for the moment, unfortunately.

In the meantime, I also asked Toyota Financial Services whether each note can have some ACH routing + account number associated to it. Or, if push transfers could be initiated from another financial institution via a Bill Payment feature (I've noticed there are two bill payees named "Toyota Financial Services". But no reply so far.

I guess the only alternative is GM Unsecured notes, other paltry credit unions with their miserable 0.55%, or ... stock market / VTI (as much as I wanted to stay away from the latter) :-(.
Why not a mix of stocks/bonds?
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Individual Bonds held to maturity, in a mix with stocks? Yes, but not bond funds (hate when they fluctuate at the whim of the fund manager).

But generally speaking, I'm seeking stability, and a short-term (i.e. less than 5 years) horizon. I've been in the U.S. for almost 8 years now, sole breadwinner in a family of 4, still renting, and contemplating a house purchase (without mortgage). But the house market here in Denver - Boulder, Colorado area, is as overpriced as the stock market :-(

I really don't know what's the best approach for me. I also have 500K Canadian $ sitting in Canadian savings accounts, and afraid of making a move with those funds (their source is the sale of my house in Canada which was bought cash-only, plus additional employment savings). When I left at the end of 2013, CAD was on par (of not slightly stronger) than USD. Now 1 USD = 1.25-1.30 CAD.

All I know to do the best in my financial life, is saving. A lot. Like 70% saving rate, and that's with just one breadwinner in a family of 4 (no hand of help from relatives or friends). Afraid of stock market - 2008 was the first opportunity to know myself better, emotionally, in terms of amount of risk tolerance. But hey, Canadian TSX/SPX 60 is so less diversified than US stock market, not to mention Canadian total population is 10 times less than U.S., so less diversity, less competition, more socialism. One of the reasons I left for the U.S.

I feel without roots, and without a clear direction. The immigration situation is not stable (currently on a work visa, but the employer is a big, 100K+ employees company and kind of hinting that they are willing to sponsor for a permanent residency / Green Card).

Anyway, today I had the courage to re-enter the U.S. stock market, and made my very first investment in the U.S. economy - I've bought 22 shares of VTI at $214.20 (close to the lowest of the day). That's new money - I've decided to not add more to savings accounts or the Toyota IncomeDriver Note, and new money saved from my salary, planned to buy more VTI. Just to have a little diversification, besides cash sitting at 1.5% + tax :). Was done thru Schwab - which I personally find a great online brokerage (I evaluated many others first, and somewhat settled on Schwab).

But ... sorry to diverge from this thread's topic.

Thanks.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

smihaila wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 am
smihaila wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
Just curious - have you decided where your $500k is going to go?
No alternative identified for the moment, unfortunately.

In the meantime, I also asked Toyota Financial Services whether each note can have some ACH routing + account number associated to it. Or, if push transfers could be initiated from another financial institution via a Bill Payment feature (I've noticed there are two bill payees named "Toyota Financial Services". But no reply so far.

I guess the only alternative is GM Unsecured notes, other paltry credit unions with their miserable 0.55%, or ... stock market / VTI (as much as I wanted to stay away from the latter) :-(.
While the interest rate currently offered by TMCC is attractive, I agree that the customer service and flexibility is not the highest.

You mention GM notes in your response. If you try them, I think that there's a good chance that you'll have the same customer experience. See the following quote from upthread.
SpaceCowboy wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:36 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:47 am I just noticed that both Toyota Income Driver and GM RightNotes are administered by www.eaccountservices.com. So they look to have very similar online features.

The other thing I note is that GM is also paying 1.5%. So hopefully that encourages Toyota to maintain the same 1.5% rate to stay competitive with GM.
They are both administered by BNY Mellon. That’s their website, which is only so, so.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by z3r0c00l »

I bonds 100% guaranteed not to lose value by the people who print the money are now offering 3.54%. In a world where options like that exist, 1.5% for single company risk seems pretty weak.
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by MishkaWorries »

Stinky wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:32 am
smihaila wrote: Tue May 04, 2021 10:51 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun May 02, 2021 8:23 am
smihaila wrote: Fri Apr 30, 2021 10:07 pm This is it. I had enough of it. I'm moving my half million elsewhere.
Disappointed.
Just curious - have you decided where your $500k is going to go?
No alternative identified for the moment, unfortunately.

In the meantime, I also asked Toyota Financial Services whether each note can have some ACH routing + account number associated to it. Or, if push transfers could be initiated from another financial institution via a Bill Payment feature (I've noticed there are two bill payees named "Toyota Financial Services". But no reply so far.

I guess the only alternative is GM Unsecured notes, other paltry credit unions with their miserable 0.55%, or ... stock market / VTI (as much as I wanted to stay away from the latter) :-(.
While the interest rate currently offered by TMCC is attractive, I agree that the customer service and flexibility is not the highest.

You mention GM notes in your response. If you try them, I think that there's a good chance that you'll have the same customer experience. See the following quote from upthread.
SpaceCowboy wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:36 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:47 am I just noticed that both Toyota Income Driver and GM RightNotes are administered by www.eaccountservices.com. So they look to have very similar online features.

The other thing I note is that GM is also paying 1.5%. So hopefully that encourages Toyota to maintain the same 1.5% rate to stay competitive with GM.
They are both administered by BNY Mellon. That’s their website, which is only so, so.
I can confirm that GM is also administered by BNY Mellon. I decided to switch my TMCC notes funding source from my brokerage to my bank account. I printed off the form and emailed it to them. One note was changed within a day or two. One note was not updated.

I sent a secure message and next day I got a call back from GM Demand Note CSR! They just transferred me to the Toyota side.
We plan. G-d laughs.
ivk5
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by ivk5 »

z3r0c00l wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 6:22 am I bonds 100% guaranteed not to lose value by the people who print the money are now offering 3.54%. In a world where options like that exist, 1.5% for single company risk seems pretty weak.
Apples vs oranges. I Bonds are subject to purchase limits, and not redeemable in first year, as I'm sure you know.

The single-issuer credit risk is real of course, but there is no silver bullet. Alternatives involve accepting varying combinations of lower yield, term risk, liquidity restrictions, deposit/purchase limits, logistical hoops to jump through (rewards checking), etc.
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Stinky wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 5:32 am While the interest rate currently offered by TMCC is attractive, I agree that the customer service and flexibility is not the highest.

You mention GM notes in your response. If you try them, I think that there's a good chance that you'll have the same customer experience. See the following quote from upthread.
SpaceCowboy wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 3:36 am
indexfundfan wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 7:47 am I just noticed that both Toyota Income Driver and GM RightNotes are administered by www.eaccountservices.com. So they look to have very similar online features.

The other thing I note is that GM is also paying 1.5%. So hopefully that encourages Toyota to maintain the same 1.5% rate to stay competitive with GM.
They are both administered by BNY Mellon. That’s their website, which is only so, so.
BNY Mellon, right. Thank you for the heads-up on this.
What else is available then? U-Haul Investors Club? :-)
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by z3r0c00l »

ivk5 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:23 am Apples vs oranges. I Bonds are subject to purchase limits, and not redeemable in first year, as I'm sure you know.
I think the pros and cons of all kinds of fixed income make them directly comparable, allowing us to "shop around" with new money. I have been hearing the purchase limits and first year thing about I bonds for 10 years now, and have ignored the naysayers and now have 108,000 worth and counting with about half those bonds earning over 3% as of this month.
70% Global Stocks / 30% Bonds
ivk5
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by ivk5 »

z3r0c00l wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:41 pm
ivk5 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 7:23 am Apples vs oranges. I Bonds are subject to purchase limits, and not redeemable in first year, as I'm sure you know.
I think the pros and cons of all kinds of fixed income make them directly comparable, allowing us to "shop around" with new money. I have been hearing the purchase limits and first year thing about I bonds for 10 years now, and have ignored the naysayers and now have 108,000 worth and counting with about half those bonds earning over 3% as of this month.
Anything can be compared to anything. The question that prompted this subthread was about how to redeploy $500k. I Bonds are not going to help much there.
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

ivk5 wrote: Wed May 05, 2021 2:47 pm Anything can be compared to anything. The question that prompted this subthread was about how to redeploy $500k. I Bonds are not going to help much there.
Right, although for a family of 4, 4 x $10,000 worth of I-bonds (maybe EE bonds too) annually may become interest-ing (pun intended) as a side pool of cash.
SpaceCowboy
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by SpaceCowboy »

While I love I-bonds and purchase my $10k limit annually, they really are not comparable given the purchase limits and the interest penalty on withdrawals under 5 years. I use the Toyota notes as my pool for a full year or so of annual spending and a temporary parking place when CDs mature. I transfer monthly to my checking/money market for daily spending. Not really concerned about the single issuer credit risk at the moment, but if March 2020 or 2008 happens again, I’ll swiftly move all the money to my bank account with a same day wire. Haven’t found a suitable alternative at 1.5%, but please let me know if there is a better one.
TiredLawyer
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by TiredLawyer »

Now 1.35%
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Stinky
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

TiredLawyer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:51 am Now 1.35%
Yes, just saw that also. Thanks for posting that. I haven't received any notice of this from TMCC.

I guess the Prospectus really means it when it says (in bold print on the cover page):

The Notes earn a floating rate of interest that is determined from time to time by TMCC in its sole discretion.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

Oh man. Maybe they think it is a duty to give them money.
One more reason to ditch them.
anonsdca
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by anonsdca »

TiredLawyer wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 3:51 am Now 1.35%

Ugh, this is like the fourth time I have moved somewhere only to have them reduce the rate in the next month or so. Very frustrating.
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GeraniumLover
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by GeraniumLover »

It looks as if Dominion (mentioned/linked to upthread) is still offering 1.5% on deposits $50k and up, at least for now.
Last edited by GeraniumLover on Wed May 12, 2021 10:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
MishkaWorries
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by MishkaWorries »

Cap 1 is now down to .3%.

Interest rates down, inflation up. Great.
We plan. G-d laughs.
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Stinky
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by Stinky »

MishkaWorries wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:37 am Cap 1 is now down to .3%.
Ally is still at 0.5%. I just checked.

I wonder if Ally (and others) will feel the pressure to reduce rates soon.
Retired life insurance company financial executive who sincerely believes that ”It’s a GREAT day to be alive!”
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GeraniumLover
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by GeraniumLover »

Marcus is offering 0.65% APR on a 9-month CD
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

GeraniumLover wrote: Wed May 12, 2021 9:23 am It looks as if Dominion (mentioned/linked to upthread) is still offering 1.5% on deposits $50k and up, at least for now.
Do you happen to know what's Dominion Energy's credit rating?
Seems to be Baa2 (Moody's) according to this link:
https://investors.dominionenergy.com/fi ... ion-energy
smihaila
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Re: Any experience with Toyota Income Driver Notes?

Post by smihaila »

I also found this:
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/#investments
https://www.1ffc.com/investments/weekly-rates

Does anyone know anything about this "1st Franklin Financial"?
It seems that any enrollment application is performed solely via snail mail (like Dominion Energy)?
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