I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

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teacher2163
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I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by teacher2163 »

I am a recent convert to the Bogleheads philosophy, having only spent the past 18 months reading this forum and reading a couple of Jack Bogle's books. It has been a whirlwind year and a half. I have executed my dad's complex estate, with trusts, a prenump, and step siblings. I have fixed my investments by indexing in 3 funds at Vanguard. I have dealt with an inherited IRA that my father's financial advisor screwed up. I learned a lot about taxes through carrying on my father's business. I inherited rentals and learned to be a landlord. I fired my own financial advisor. I had help from fellow Bogleheads from this forum along the way. What I didn't learn until recently is that no one wants to hear my philosophies on finances. I helped a friend set up a brokerage account and showed him how to operate it, and gave him a brief lesson on indexing. I had several conversations with him over many months. I heard that he was going to talk to a financial advisor and contacted him. It was too late. He is now paying a 1% advisor fee, plus whatever other high fees that he will likely incur, like front loads and excessive expense ratios. I told him I could have helped him set up his accounts and funds in a few minutes, but he said he wanted "someone to look out for his finances." I caught myself getting angry at him before realizing that it is none of my business. I now understand why so many people on here say don't get involved in people's finances unless they specifically ask for help. Lesson learned.
NotWhoYouThink
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by NotWhoYouThink »

Sounds like you've had a busy year and have done well.

If your friend keeps putting money in the brokerage account you have done your job, no matter who manages is or how it is invested. The most important thing is socking money away regularly, the rest is material but not essential.

And you can still drop hints in your general conversations, some day someone (niece or nephew)? will ask you what you mean or engage in the discussion.
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willthrill81
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by willthrill81 »

Many of us have learned the hard way that unsolicited advice is rarely well received and can do more harm than good.
“It's a dangerous business, Frodo, going out your door. You step onto the road, and if you don't keep your feet, there's no knowing where you might be swept off to.” J.R.R. Tolkien,The Lord of the Rings
avidlearner
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by avidlearner »

I recently learned the same lesson when advising brother in law to max out 401K and sharing the index funds advice. So now I just listen and only advice when asked but with an open mind that they may or may not follow it.
livesoft
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by livesoft »

I don't get this "learned my lesson." I have had people follow my advice and thanked me for it. I have had others not follow my advice, but it didn't bother me at all. Why does it bother you that someone did not follow your advice?

I will also guess that you do not work in sales. I think sales people know that they cannot get every prospect to become a customer. The same goes for young people asking another person out on a date. Or a professor or researcher submitting a grant proposal to be funded or a manuscript to be published. Or ....

Rejection goes with the territory. Learn from it.
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Normchad
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Normchad »

Congratulations on a lesson well learned!

Unfortunately, in America pensions are basically gone and everybody was turned loose to manage their retirement in their own. I think to do this well, you need three things: Intellectual capacity for understanding, inclination or interest in this kind of stuff, and willingness to put in the time to do it well.

Unfortunately, the vast majority of people don’t have these three. And you’ve just learned that.

For these people, I think they would be better off paying AUM fees, if they could get could competent and fair advice and direction.
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JoeRetire
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by JoeRetire »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:45 amHe is now paying a 1% advisor fee, plus whatever other high fees that he will likely incur, like front loads and excessive expense ratios. I told him I could have helped him set up his accounts and funds in a few minutes, but he said he wanted "someone to look out for his finances." I caught myself getting angry at him before realizing that it is none of my business.
Don't take it as a personal rejection. Take it as someone who felt they need more help than you could provide and are willing to pay for it.
There's nothing wrong with that.
It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | It's the end of the world as we know it. | And I feel fine.
sport
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by sport »

A friend complained to me that his advisor was taking advantage of him. I explained how it is easy to do it yourself. I took him to a local Bogleheads meeting so he could see how others were doing this. He left his advisor, and went to a different advisor.
You can lead a horse to water...
Broken Man 1999
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

You might have felt even worse had it been a family member!

I tried to help my siblings with their inheritance, instead they went with a helpful banker where my sister worked and ended up in loaded, high ER mutual funds. Then, when the market went down, they panicked and sold, basically losing most everything.

Oh well, too bad, so sad.

Now my BIL is a success story. He has been very OK with his portfolio performance after leaving a paid advisor, a relative. I work very inexpensively, in comparison.

Broken Man 1999
“If I cannot drink Bourbon and smoke cigars in Heaven then I shall not go." - Mark Twain
Topic Author
teacher2163
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by teacher2163 »

I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me. I had to remind myself it was none of my business, and I had no right to be mad. I would happily help someone if they wanted my input. I'm just not going to give anyone unsolicited advice. I have helped my brother, son, and daughter set up accounts and investments, but they wanted the help.
dknightd
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by dknightd »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:45 am It has been a whirlwind year and a half. I have executed my dad's complex estate, with trusts, a prenump, and step siblings. I have fixed my investments by indexing in 3 funds at Vanguard. I have dealt with an inherited IRA that my father's financial advisor screwed up. I learned a lot about taxes through carrying on my father's business. I inherited rentals and learned to be a landlord. I fired my own financial advisor. ... Lesson learned.
I suspect you have more to learn. That is a good thing.
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ApeAttack
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by ApeAttack »

I never involve myself in other's financial affairs unless directly asked. However, since I have given a couple seminars on the basics of retirement investing to friends, a couple friends have asked me on the side for advice. Sometimes I can help right away, other times I point them to various websites like the bogleheads wiki articles so they can do their own research.
Just another lazy index investor.
Theseus
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Theseus »

Some people have fear (rational or irrational) of doing it themselves. Some people are too busy. Some people are nervous looking at the numbers. They rather pay someone to do it for them. There is nothing wrong with going to a fiduciary planner in such a case. But they should educate themselves nonetheless.

It is like this (not the best example). Despite what little hair I have left, I am afraid to give myself a haircut. Or have DW or DD do it. I rather go to a barber. I have seen enough videos of people doing it themselves and walking you through how to do it (due to Covid). And I am sure if I can put my mind to it, I can do it. But I am afraid I am going to screw it up and look even more ridiculous if I go DIY :D :D

I know this is not the same in $ terms. But the fear part is similar I think.
123
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by 123 »

Theseus wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:00 pm ... Despite what little hair I have left, I am afraid to give myself a haircut. Or have DW or DD do it. I rather go to a barber. I have seen enough videos of people doing it themselves and walking you through how to do it (due to Covid). And I am sure if I can put my mind to it, I can do it. But I am afraid I am going to screw it up and look even more ridiculous if I go DIY...
+1 This is an excellent example of DIY fears (which can be about virtually anything).
The closest helping hand is at the end of your own arm.
livesoft
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by livesoft »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me.
That never stopped me from writing my congressman nor senator.
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hi_there
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by hi_there »

There's nothing wrong with giving people your opinion and perspective, but it sounds like you were a bit too pushy with this friend. So, I understand why he would be annoyed.
Katietsu
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Katietsu »

OP, since you seem like you might end up in a conversation about this in the future, either with this friend or someone else, I would add another possible way to help. Many people are not willing or able to go DIY. For many people, the best help is advice about picking an advisor, about the ways fees are charged by the advisor, about ERs, etc. Sometimes emailing on article or recommending an author like Jane Bryant Quinn and letting them discover now or later is the way to go. An advisor charging a reasonable AUM or flat fee while using low cost funds/ETFs is different than an advisor selling high commission annuities and whole life insurance or using a combination of fees that can add up to 3%.
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GerryL
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by GerryL »

ApeAttack wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:58 pm I never involve myself in other's financial affairs unless directly asked. However, since I have given a couple seminars on the basics of retirement investing to friends, a couple friends have asked me on the side for advice. Sometimes I can help right away, other times I point them to various websites like the bogleheads wiki articles so they can do their own research.
My young adult nephew asked me to meet (via Zoom) with some of his coworkers to help them understand investing. They have the option of investing in a Simple IRA and keep coming to him to ask questions. I said I could do a slimmed down version of the Fundamentals of Investing presentation I deliver to HS students and young adults.

Had to look up info about Simple IRAs and reviewed the plan documents he showed me. Ugh. High ERs and 5.50% loads. I won't advise them about what they should do, but I aim to help them understand the questions they need to ask. My presentation includes what you need to know if you don't want to DIY. Wish me luck.
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Taylor Larimore
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Taylor Larimore »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 11:45 am I am a recent convert to the Bogleheads philosophy, having only spent the past 18 months reading this forum and reading a couple of Jack Bogle's books. It has been a whirlwind year and a half. I have executed my dad's complex estate, with trusts, a prenump, and step siblings. I have fixed my investments by indexing in 3 funds at Vanguard. I have dealt with an inherited IRA that my father's financial advisor screwed up. I learned a lot about taxes through carrying on my father's business. I inherited rentals and learned to be a landlord. I fired my own financial advisor. I had help from fellow Bogleheads from this forum along the way. What I didn't learn until recently is that no one wants to hear my philosophies on finances. I helped a friend set up a brokerage account and showed him how to operate it, and gave him a brief lesson on indexing. I had several conversations with him over many months. I heard that he was going to talk to a financial advisor and contacted him. It was too late. He is now paying a 1% advisor fee, plus whatever other high fees that he will likely incur, like front loads and excessive expense ratios. I told him I could have helped him set up his accounts and funds in a few minutes, but he said he wanted "someone to look out for his finances." I caught myself getting angry at him before realizing that it is none of my business. I now understand why so many people on here say don't get involved in people's finances unless they specifically ask for help. Lesson learned.
teacher2163:

Recommending stock investments is fraught with danger. Whatever you recommend will have periods of underperformance and you will be blamed. Also, the financial industry spends billions of dollars a year trying to get investors to buy their profitable (for them) stocks, bonds, funds and services. You don't have a chance.

Whenever I am asked to recommend a portfolio I recommend a Boglehead book. If it is a good friend, I order one from Amazon and have it sent to them. All three Boglehead books enjoy 4 1/2 Stars at Amazon.

Best wishes.
Taylor
Jack Bogle's Words of Wisdom: “The marketing colossus known as the mutual fund industry provides the weaponry which enables investors’ to indulge their suicidal instincts.”
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Dead Man Walking
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Dead Man Walking »

livesoft wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:15 pm
teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me.
That never stopped me from writing my congressman nor senator.
Livesoft,

Did either ever respond with anything other than a canned response sent by a staffer?

DMW
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Grt2bOutdoors »

Someone once asked me if they would be able to retire? I replied yes, so long as you can save and continually invest the money over a long period of time. Then I gave this person The Little Book of Commonsense Investing.

Fast forward: Did you read the book? No I didn’t have time.

You can lead the horse to water, you can’t make them drink it.
"One should invest based on their need, ability and willingness to take risk - Larry Swedroe" Asking Portfolio Questions
SteadyOne
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by SteadyOne »

My life experience

1. Never give advice unless a person specifically asks for it
2. Other people’s problems are not my business
3. I can never give a proper advice because I never know all the details about other persons situation
4. Other people’s motivations are mystery to me (and oftentimes to themselves)
5. Never mix business and friendship and family
“Every de­duc­tion is al­lowed as a mat­ter of leg­isla­tive grace.” US Federal Court
260chrisb
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by 260chrisb »

Slacker!! :D Nice year!! I wouldn't lose sleep over your friend going to an advisor. If he asked for help and you offered some, you did what you could. Not everyone believes in the Bogleheads approach. Some need advisors more than others. Most here less than others. I have one for a third of my investments that I've retained for many years. I didn't know 20-25 years ago what I know and have learned today and was glad to have the assistance then. He's a close and personal friend, he has a reasonable AUM fee structure, I'm good with it for that money, and use his knowledge with the other two thirds of my wealth. One should never preach their investing philosophy but instead suggest and guide. After that, walk away. Lesson learned.
livesoft
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by livesoft »

Dead Man Walking wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:45 pmDid either ever respond with anything other than a canned response sent by a staffer?
Yes. More than once, too.
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TSR
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by TSR »

I disagree with the "never give unsolicited advice" adage. As others have posted, I have had some luck preaching to some, and had no luck with others. I have several (!) former romantic partners who will text me out of the blue and tell me that if there was one thing worthwhile about having met me, it was that I told them how to set up their Roth IRA and what funds to choose. (We can safely presume that there were not other worthwhile things.) I have a co-worker who did NOT want to hear my advice when I first gave it (my mistake -- it was when she first started out there), but three years later she started asking me again about 401k stuff, my having planted a seed in those earlier conversations. There are right and wrong ways to have these conversations, like anything else. Don't be a jerk about it, and let it drop if people aren't receptive. And as others have said, you simply can't take it personally that people don't follow your advice. OP, sounds like you've had a productive year. Keep at it!
mptfan
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by mptfan »

You now understand why, when someone comes on here and asks about someone else's finances, my first question is "Did they ask for your advice?"
Last edited by mptfan on Thu Jan 21, 2021 4:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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vitaflo
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by vitaflo »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me.
Look on the bright side, when the market tanks, they can get angry at their advisor instead of getting angry at you.
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wander
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by wander »

We are open to help out but it's like top secret in both my and my spouse's siblings' families. So, we don't care. :D
mhalley
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by mhalley »

I was afraid it was going to be “I was going to buy Tesla and instead got the 3 fund portfolio, you cost me thousands of dollars!” I would say keep preaching, but no one likes being preached to out of church. instead I will say keep spreading the word to those that are open to it.
jmw
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by jmw »

Never give unsolicited advice to IRL friends and family unless you are OK with ruining that relationship completely.
TN_Boy
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by TN_Boy »

teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me. I had to remind myself it was none of my business, and I had no right to be mad. I would happily help someone if they wanted my input. I'm just not going to give anyone unsolicited advice. I have helped my brother, son, and daughter set up accounts and investments, but they wanted the help.
It's not just unsolicited advice.

You shouldn't get mad even if people solict your advice and then upon reflection choose not to take it. Maybe they just wanted to kick around some ideas in their head.

Unless they say "tell me what to do" in which case you could feel mildly peeved if they decide to ignore your suggestion. Then again, perhaps they heard your suggestion and decided asking wasn't such a great idea :-).
Starfish
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Starfish »

Advice does not have to come in the form of do this and do that, but as in "I do this" and "I do that". Do you use EJ? I use Vanguard because lower fees etc.
How can it ruin a relationship?
I would be very worried to tell somebody to put money in total market and to have market tank by 20% in the next year. People have to understand very well the risks and have the right assumptions. Giving advice without understanding the assumptions in their head is very risky. For example in my head it is very clear that the entire BH philosophy is based on past results which do not predict future performance, so how can I sell this as a sure thing?
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by sergeant »

I ran a patrol shift for the last 25 years of my career. On day one of a new officers shift I explained the benefits of our 457b plan. I had their FTO take them to city hill and accompany them to HR to enroll. As their boss I was privy to their step increases and raises. I would remind them to increase their contribution so that half the raise went to deferred comp. I had a very high success rate since I had authority that was respected. Guys stop by my home every now and then to thank me for forcing them to save.

None of my advice given to family or friends was followed.
AA- 20+ Years of Expenses Fixed Income/The remainder in Equities.
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arcticpineapplecorp.
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by arcticpineapplecorp. »

if you think you're mad now, wait til 10 to 15 years from now when your friend realizes he got snookered in fees all those years and says to you, "Man I wish someone told me years ago to beware of overpriced fees and advisors!"

you'll have to bite your tongue until it bleeds.
Last edited by arcticpineapplecorp. on Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:26 pm, edited 1 time in total.
It's "Stay" the course, not Stray the Course. Buy and Hold works. You should really try it sometime. Get a plan: www.bogleheads.org/wiki/Investment_policy_statement
nick evets
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by nick evets »

A couple issues, I think...

1) You're (generic 'you') not being paid nor licensed to provide financial advice. At some level, it really IS that simple.

2) Many, many, many very rich people aren't 'bogleheads.' That statement is 100% true for the handful of folks of whom I'm a bit familiar with their personal financial details. The gamut ranges from working with trusted financial advisors to weird private equity venture things I don't understand, and partnerships.

3) Many 'bogleheads' aren't really bogleheads: read the "YTD" thread, and you'll see massive out performance over any possible 3-fund portfolio. :)
LeslieSmiley
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by LeslieSmiley »

there are:

those who are intellectually curious and believe in self improvement and practice critical and analytical thinking

- introduce them to the theories, principles and the fundamental models and etc
- they will eat them up and make effort to learn and understand because they want to
- you will then be working with them in a collaborative fashion
- they would want to make their own decision with your guidance
- they understand the risk involved and will take full responsibility of their action because they actually "understand" what/why they are doing
- the result is favorable


those who are not intellectually curious and believe in the conventional wisdom of relying on "experts" because "experts" possess unattainable wisdom and secret knowledge that no matter how hard you try, you will never be able to grasp such wisdom/knowledge

- no matter how sound your advice is, they are very inclined to dismiss you because you are not the "expert" as you don't work as one with the title. their view is not based on critical/analytical thinking, but rather on assumption and passive belief
- they are unlikely to make efforts to learn and understand what they are participating, that is, investing.
- you will feel like you are trying to "convince" and/or "persuade" them to do something that's likely beneficial to them
- high potential of blame game
- the result is unfavorable

so when you are faced with the situation where you decide if you should give advice. do an assessment on what type of this person is and decide accordingly.
hnd
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by hnd »

if you don't have a good foundation in why you should be a boglehead then just getting the markets return seems absolutely ridiculous. Its way easier to listen to someone tell you they have a shot to beat the market with your money.

my parents have been with a guy for a long time who's managed their money. its all in American Funds A shares with the front load. They are a few years from retirement and have 1 Million in assets. My dad is clergy so he waives a portion of the load for them. He's a great guy. I looked at their stuff as my dad wanted me to be involved as he considers me knowledgable on this stuff and knows it.

The guy asked me what I did and I told him i self manage it and adhere quite a bit to a boglehead portfolio. I think he was like oh boy here we go. I simply listened I asked a few questions and thanked him for taking care of my parents. I've backtested their portfolio had they followed a simple 3 fund strategy on their own backtested to 1990, they'd be sitting about right where they are sitting today. (thanks to the Growth fund of America saving the day)

I also teach FPU at our church. I give my opinion on his investment strategy when asked. But for the most part I keep my mouth shut.
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dratkinson
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by dratkinson »

My sister's son became a stockbroker... and now manages her money since she was widowed.
--Moved her's and her inherited DH's Vanguard accounts to his firm.
--Loads, fees, taxes,... Oh my!

Tried to explain she could be doing better... but she doesn't what to do it herself.

So her son is getting his inheritance now, and anything left over he'll split with his sisters.

Finally accept that if my sister has enough to live out her days in relative comfort, then what's she's doing is good enough... for her.

But I did send her copies of my wallet "investing handout" to give to her kids, and confirmed that she did receive and distribute them. It's the best I can do.
d.r.a., not dr.a. | I'm a novice investor, you are forewarned.
TravelGeek
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by TravelGeek »

vitaflo wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 2:19 pm
teacher2163 wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:49 pm I guess I realized I shouldn't be giving unsolicited advice if I was going to get upset when someone didn't listen to me.
Look on the bright side, when the market tanks, they can get angry at their advisor instead of getting angry at you.
Exactly. That’s the more important (IMO) lesson the OP was spared.

I don’t give unsolicited or solicited investment advice. I am happy to explain what I do, what funds I buy etc., but I am not an investment advisor.
Dottie57
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Dottie57 »

I learned my lesson. I told afriend about bogleheads. I was very animated when talking about it. The she wanted me to manage her assets - arrrggggg! Said no. Sent her email with links to wiki and forum. The next I heard, she is with a financial advisor. My mouth is now shut on financial matters.

It does bug me that so many are uninterested in personal financial literacy. There are two essential areas to pay attention to :health and money. Learn how to have your money make money for you.
livesoft
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by livesoft »

BTW, I did want to mention that for a friend I gave them the following advice: "Stick with your advisor. They are fine for you."
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goodenyou
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by goodenyou »

People are better persuaded by their own discovery than by ideas that have come into the minds of others.

I sure don’t preach to convince myself or make me feel better about my decisions on investing.
"Ignorance more frequently begets confidence than does knowledge" | “Do you know how to make a rain dance work? Dance until it rains”
csei21
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by csei21 »

I am a recent convert to the Bogleheads philosophy, having only spent the past 18 months reading this forum and reading a couple of Jack Bogle's books. It has been a whirlwind year and a half. I have executed my dad's complex estate, with trusts, a prenump, and step siblings. I have fixed my investments by indexing in 3 funds at Vanguard.
I have been on a similar journey in the last 18 months after inherited my parent's estate. I read a lot of books, the wikis, this forum and I still doubt myself when actually having to fund accounts.

I think people just don't feel comfortable handling their own money. They way some people talk about their "broker" it seems they like having someone tell them what to do.
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windaar
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by windaar »

I only give financial advice to friends and family when asked. They never ask.
Nobody knows nothing.
Fogbank
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Fogbank »

My Brother In Law came to me in a panic last spring. I managed to keep him from pulling all his money out of the market (all tax-sheltered)- and convinced him to keep investing in the 401k plan at his job. That took a lot of explaining and it made me pretty uncomfortable, but he thanked me later.
snowman
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by snowman »

sergeant wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 3:20 pm I ran a patrol shift for the last 25 years of my career. On day one of a new officers shift I explained the benefits of our 457b plan. I had their FTO take them to city hill and accompany them to HR to enroll. As their boss I was privy to their step increases and raises. I would remind them to increase their contribution so that half the raise went to deferred comp. I had a very high success rate since I had authority that was respected. Guys stop by my home every now and then to thank me for forcing them to save.

None of my advice given to family or friends was followed.
I never felt the need to advise anyone, but like you, I ended up in hiring position at megacorp (this is 20 years back). I hired many, mostly young people in their 20s. When I was helping them with HR paperwork, I always advised them to select at least 6% salary contribution into 401k plan, since that's what company matched. I mostly got deer in the headlight look. I patiently explained that it really is free money, there is no catch to it, it's guaranteed. Well, there is a catch, I was told - you cannot touch it for at least 30 years! And this was in finance department at megacorp - all hires had college degrees!

So I learned at that time that you can lead the horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink.

This is a funny story I told my kids a few times, and it always makes me laugh. Hired very bright, young single guy. He had a dog - German Shepard. We had good working relationship. He did 0% 401k contribution, said he will start saving when he has more money to spend. OK. About a year later, he comes to my desk, wants an opinion. He is shopping SUVs, since his dog outgrew his small car already. I don't know what to say! I ask calmly what the choices are, and how he intends to pay for it. He says he is already approved for the loan, that's not the problem is. The real problem is that his dog really likes Porsche Cayenne the most among all the choices! At that time I couldn't hold it anymore, and I burst out laughing. I asked him how he could tell. He said well if you had a dog you would know, and proceeded to give me details about how his German Shephard really liked the floor in the rear of that Cayenne, and how the space was just right.

I told him that I personally would not let a child or a dog to dictate what car I can afford, but it is his money, so if both he and his dog really like that Cayenne, and can afford monthly payments, go for it! I was laughing, and I honestly thought it was a joke, even though he was a thorough and meticulous worker. He wasn't joking - he did buy that Cayenne. So that's that...
sport
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by sport »

snowman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:34 pm So I learned at that time that you can lead the horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink.
Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:48 pm You can lead the horse to water, you can’t make them drink it.
sport wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:37 pm You can lead a horse to water...
It seems there is a theme here. :idea:
Normchad
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Normchad »

sport wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:48 pm
snowman wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 5:34 pm So I learned at that time that you can lead the horse to water, but you cannot force it to drink.
Grt2bOutdoors wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:48 pm You can lead the horse to water, you can’t make them drink it.
sport wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 12:37 pm You can lead a horse to water...
It seems there is a theme here. :idea:
Stop giving advice to horses, they don’t listen.

My doctor advises me to stop being fat, and not to eat hot dogs and cheesy poofs for breakfast. Then I go home and eat hot dogs and cheesy poofs.

I agree it’s solid advice. I just don’t want to do it.
ApeAttack
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by ApeAttack »

GerryL wrote: Thu Jan 21, 2021 1:43 pm My young adult nephew asked me to meet (via Zoom) with some of his coworkers to help them understand investing. They have the option of investing in a Simple IRA and keep coming to him to ask questions. I said I could do a slimmed down version of the Fundamentals of Investing presentation I deliver to HS students and young adults.

Had to look up info about Simple IRAs and reviewed the plan documents he showed me. Ugh. High ERs and 5.50% loads. I won't advise them about what they should do, but I aim to help them understand the questions they need to ask. My presentation includes what you need to know if you don't want to DIY. Wish me luck.
At the end of my presentation (after I explain the basics of retirement investing), I also show my AA (in percentages, not dollars) in my 403b, which has great low-fee index fund options. Then I explain why I selected those particular funds and how my AA will become more conservative as I near retirement. This gives attendees a concrete example of how to think about investing in terms of AA. Of course, I always state something like, "Is this the optimal AA over the next 20 years? Who knows, but I can sleep easy at night and it *probably* will lead me to a comfortable retirement."

It might be worthwhile to show your AA and explain why you selected your funds. If they are low-fee, no-load index funds, you could compare them with the funds available in the Simple IRA.
Just another lazy index investor.
Carguy85
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Re: I have learned my lesson. No more preaching finances to my friends or family

Post by Carguy85 »

I think the important part to discover is the why. I stumbled upon this site and have read much on the “why”. I told a brother about it and he took it upon himself to read some bogleheads books and is now managing his own money in a very boglehead way through vanguard as well. We have fun talking about the silliness in the market and the dumb things people do regarding the market. My other brother let it go in one ear and out the other. I think it’s more of a status thing for him to have “people for that”. He likes to “spread” his money around according to him (needlessly over complicating things). He has even somewhat insinuated my other brother and I are just messing around in the stock market Willy nilly . His main financial advisor is a decent honest guy though (I interviewed him before I found bogleheads) and buys legitimate vanguard funds that more less equals Vtsax (of course has to look complicated right?) He has a big shovel and will be fine. Oddly enough there seem to be several members on this site that obviously don’t have the background information regarding the why. I’d think there would be sites that would be more conducive to some of the silliness posted on here... maybe not.
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