Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

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ashg
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Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ashg »

I am planning to open IRA and Taxable accounts. My goal is to follow the 3 fund strategy for most part. Given this, are there any suggestions for using Vanguard vs TD Ameritrade or any other broker?
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retired@50
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by retired@50 »

ashg wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:32 pm I am planning to open IRA and Taxable accounts. My goal is to follow the 3 fund strategy for most part. Given this, are there any suggestions for using Vanguard vs TD Ameritrade or any other broker?
Welcome to the forum. :happy

I've been with Vanguard since the 1990s and couldn't be happier. I really like having access to the complete suite of Vanguard stock and bond funds and ETFs with no commissions or fees of any kind. Following the 3-fund strategy is a very solid choice. Congratulations, and happy investing.

Regards,
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Pandemic Bangs
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Pandemic Bangs »

ashg wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:32 pm Vanguard vs TD Ameritrade
I keep a token balance at TDA so I can use their M* portfolio X-ray tool for free. Let's me upload a portfolio as .csv. I'm sure there are other paths to this resource but I do not pay for M*.
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nix4me
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by nix4me »

They will all work. Vanguard has the worst website and customer service. Fidelity and Schwab are much much better. And if you only want to use ETFs, TD Ameritrade is fantastic but their mutual fund choices are terrible although that might change very soon since Schwab bought them. I would rank them in this order - i use 4/5.

Fidelity
Schwab ( i dont use but i've seen enough to know)
TD Ameritrade
Vanguard
ETrade
jhsu802701
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by jhsu802701 »

Vanguard is better than TD Ameritrade. Here are my reasons:
1. At Vanguard, all uninvested cash balances are automatically swept to the Vanguard Federal money market fund. When interest rates rise again, Vanguard will pay you FAR more on your uninvested cash balances than TD Ameritrade will. At TD Ameritrade, the automatic sweep options have lowball yields.
2. TD Ameritrade changes you $75 for outbound full account transfers. Vanguard charges you nothing for this. (Then again, why would you want to transfer anything out of Vanguard?)
3. Vanguard has commission-free trading, just like TD Ameritrade. Thus, TD Ameritrade no longer has an advantage over Vanguard on this matter.
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BuddyJet
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by BuddyJet »

ashg wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:32 pm I am planning to open IRA and Taxable accounts. My goal is to follow the 3 fund strategy for most part. Given this, are there any suggestions for using Vanguard vs TD Ameritrade or any other broker?
For a 3 fund in ETF, I’d go with the firm that gives the best bonus for new money. Look at the Ally and TD Ameritrade bonuses.
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softwaregeek
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by softwaregeek »

nix4me wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 pm They will all work. Vanguard has the worst website and customer service. Fidelity and Schwab are much much better. And if you only want to use ETFs, TD Ameritrade is fantastic but their mutual fund choices are terrible although that might change very soon since Schwab bought them. I would rank them in this order - i use 4/5.

Fidelity
Schwab ( i dont use but i've seen enough to know)
TD Ameritrade
Vanguard
ETrade
My personal ranking puts Schwab #1 for service and the best banking.
Merrill Edge #2 for mortgage discounts and credit card perks with Bank of America.
I also like Ally for the high yield banking integration although not as popular here.
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Vegomatic
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Vegomatic »

https://www.businesswire.com/news/home/ ... Ameritrade

Don't forget that TD was acquired by Schwab.

As indicated by linked 10-06-20 press release above, TD was acquired by Schwab. Excerpts below hint that there will be changes to come within next 3 years. You might want to look at both Schwab and TD, and make sure that you are comfortable with both, in the event that the current TD platform and experience becomes indistinguishable from Schwab's.
  • We are committed to maintaining our sharp focus on seeing ‘Through Clients’ Eyes’ as we begin to integrate our companies carefully and thoughtfully and prepare our plans to transition brokerage accounts at TD Ameritrade’s broker-dealers to Schwab’s broker-dealer in the future.”
  • The integration of Schwab’s and TD Ameritrade’s operations is expected to occur over the next 18 to 36 months, though planning for it has been underway since the acquisition was announced on November 25, 2019. Until the integration is complete, Schwab and TD Ameritrade will continue to operate separate broker-dealers to serve their respective clients. Until then, the products, services and delivery channels currently available from the two companies remain largely unchanged...
MishkaWorries
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by MishkaWorries »

nix4me wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 pm They will all work. Vanguard has the worst website and customer service. Fidelity and Schwab are much much better. And if you only want to use ETFs, TD Ameritrade is fantastic but their mutual fund choices are terrible although that might change very soon since Schwab bought them. I would rank them in this order - i use 4/5.

Fidelity
Schwab ( i dont use but i've seen enough to know)
TD Ameritrade
Vanguard
ETrade
TDA has Schwab mutual funds now. I have the total stock market fund at 0.03 ER and Schwab's 2030 target date at 0.08 ER.

I'm of the opinion for simple buy and hold investers (especially ETF buyers) all the discount brokers are about the same. They each have pluses and minuses. I would use something else as the decider. For instance we use Schwab as our primary broker because we use their great debit card now and we'll use them for our primary bank when we retire.
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galectin
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by galectin »

I have been with TDA for a long time with a brokerage account and IRAs. I have had no problems with them. I value having a local office with somebody I can go and talk to if I have any questions. I have a three fund portfolio and they have never tried to upsell me to advisor AUM accounts.

With respect to them being bought by Schwab, it appears that they will be doing business as TDA for about 18 months and my accounts will then go to Schwab. Since I am not an active trader, I do not expect any problems. People with Schwab seem to like the website and service there.
nix4me
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by nix4me »

MishkaWorries wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 9:23 pm
nix4me wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 pm They will all work. Vanguard has the worst website and customer service. Fidelity and Schwab are much much better. And if you only want to use ETFs, TD Ameritrade is fantastic but their mutual fund choices are terrible although that might change very soon since Schwab bought them. I would rank them in this order - i use 4/5.

Fidelity
Schwab ( i dont use but i've seen enough to know)
TD Ameritrade
Vanguard
ETrade
TDA has Schwab mutual funds now. I have the total stock market fund at 0.03 ER and Schwab's 2030 target date at 0.08 ER.

I'm of the opinion for simple buy and hold investers (especially ETF buyers) all the discount brokers are about the same. They each have pluses and minuses. I would use something else as the decider. For instance we use Schwab as our primary broker because we use their great debit card now and we'll use them for our primary bank when we retire.
Oh nice - that must be recent that they added Schwab funds. Yeah Fidelity has a fantastic cash management account and 2% credit card too. I'd say Schwab and Fidelity and top tier - the rest are second fiddle.
softwaregeek
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by softwaregeek »

All of the big players are pretty good, as long as you keep away from their managed stuff.Each has their own advantages though. Schwab has service and good banking, fidelity has a card, BofA has best cards and mortgage discounts but not as good service, ally has highest yield checking. Not sure what the others have as their offering.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by bondsr4me »

nix4me wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 pm They will all work. Vanguard has the worst website and customer service. Fidelity and Schwab are much much better. And if you only want to use ETFs, TD Ameritrade is fantastic but their mutual fund choices are terrible although that might change very soon since Schwab bought them. I would rank them in this order - i use 4/5.

Fidelity
Schwab ( i dont use but i've seen enough to know)
TD Ameritrade
Vanguard
ETrade
+1

I rate Schwab first, Fido second....but really close.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

nix4me wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 8:25 pm Vanguard has the worst website
Subjective. I think it's mostly what you are used to. I have TD Ameritrade as the investment platform for my employer's HSA, and to me, the site layout is extremely cluttered and non-intuitive. Vanguard is no frills, but if you have a three-fund portfolio, why do you want frills?
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by livesoft »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 7:09 am Subjective. I think it's mostly what you are used to. I have TD Ameritrade as the investment platform for my employer's HSA, and to me, the site layout is extremely cluttered and non-intuitive. Vanguard is no frills, but if you have a three-fund portfolio, why do you want frills?
Yes, subjective as I would have stated the opposite. But I hardly ever use my Vanguard account and use the TDAmeritrade web site at least once a week for multiple accounts. I did use the "Customize" feature at TDAmeritrade.

For an investor that uses ETFs, then TDAmeritrade will be better. For an investor that uses only Vanguard mutual funds, then Vanguard will be better. I stopped using ETFs at Vanguard including Vanguard ETFs.

If I want to know information about a specific ETF or mutual fund, then I go to the website of the ETF or fund sponsor. That could be Vanguard, Fidelity, iShares/Blackrock, SPDR, Wisdom Tree, ..., whoever.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by galawdawg »

Welcome to Bogleheads!

If you are a new investor or early in your accumulation phase and will simply be investing new money and automatically reinvesting dividends, any major brokerage is fine, including Vanguard. If you want to invest in mutual funds, you can do that at Vanguard and E*TRADE with no transaction fees, most if all of the others will charge a fee to purchase Vanguard mutual funds. If you want to invest in ETFs, then you can do that at any major brokerage with no transaction fees.

While Vanguard funds are great, as far as the Vanguard brokerage, not so much. You'll see many reports of subpar Vanguard customer service here on Bogleheads but my observation are that most of these reported problems generally occur once you are in or nearing retirement and begin to do more with your account than simply adding money, that also applies to younger investors when they need to divide accounts due to divorce, need to move funds when a family member dies, and so on. Reports are that you are likely to encounter problems with long phone delays at Vanguard as well. Whether that is resolved in the near future is anyone's guess.

I recommend that investors comparing brokerages take them for a "test drive." Call customer service at each one you are considering and ask questions. Email or chat with them and ask questions. Take a look at their website and see which will best meet your needs. Once you get a feel for how quickly they answer calls and emails, how responsive they are to your questions, and whether it appears they are ready to earn your business....then decide!

Feel free to come back here with any questions that we can help with!
Topic Author
ashg
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ashg »

Thanks everyone for sharing your inputs. After reading all teh responses, I may need reconsider. I will share a bit more context:

1. Primary bank: BofA
2. No investment experience. Just getting started, I do have savings that I want to start investing in a taxable account.
3. Have my Roth IRA/IRA with TDA.
4. Was thinking of scheduled (monthly) auto investment into account. This is where mutual funds made sense as most brokers do not offer Fraction ETFs.
5. I was thinking Vanguard as I saw most of teh folks hererecommend using Vanguard ETFs/MFs and Vanguard offers no fee MFs.

I was also thinking of using Fidelity for HSA as they seem to have no Fees and no minimums for investing. I did see that Fidelity support fractional shares/ETFs, so may be they are better option if I want to invest automatically and want good customer service. Overall then Fidelity seems like a good option if I do not want VG MFs. Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.

Thoughts?
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by nalor511 »

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Thanks everyone for sharing your inputs. After reading all teh responses, I may need reconsider. I will share a bit more context:

1. Primary bank: BofA
2. No investment experience. Just getting started, I do have savings that I want to start investing in a taxable account.
3. Have my Roth IRA/IRA with TDA.
4. Was thinking of scheduled (monthly) auto investment into account. This is where mutual funds made sense as most brokers do not offer Fraction ETFs.
5. I was thinking Vanguard as I saw most of teh folks hererecommend using Vanguard ETFs/MFs and Vanguard offers no fee MFs.

I was also thinking of using Fidelity for HSA as they seem to have no Fees and no minimums for investing. I did see that Fidelity support fractional shares/ETFs, so may be they are better option if I want to invest automatically and want good customer service. Overall then Fidelity seems like a good option if I do not want VG MFs. Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.

Thoughts?
You can also do Fidelity Zero funds at Fido, if you like MF. I do not like the extra stress of ETFs, personally.
livesoft
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by livesoft »

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Thoughts?
Fidelity has mutual funds and ETFs trade without commission, including Vanguard ETFs So there: Your decision is made. Move your Roth from TDA to Fidelity, too.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by MishkaWorries »

Fidelity is probably the highest recommended HSA. I have mine there and no complaints at all. TDA, Schwab, Fidelity and Vanguard all have great mutual funds for the basic 3-4 fund portfolio. They all have good ETFs (including Vanguard ETFs) at no cost to buy or sell. Any of those brokers will get the job done. Now if you have a specific Vanguard fund you need (for instance, my wife loves Wellesley) then your choice is easy -- Vanguard.

Let me give you one more choice. I understand BoA is connected to Merrill(?) and you can get a great cashback card (I think 2.6% cashback). Maybe that is the tiebreaker for you? I apologise in advance because I may be wrong about that card. Other here are more knowledgeable.
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Wiggums
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Wiggums »

General guidance:

You should buy vanguard at vanguard; buy fidelity at fidelity.

The Fidelity zero funds cannot be transferred to another broker. So keep that in mind if you are buying these funds in a taxable account. ETF some more portable, should you switch brokers. people switch brokers to get a signing bonus, account consolidation or Unhappiness with the broker customer service.

I personally have a scheduled buy of mutual funds on a weekly basis. ETFs are more tax efficient as a general statement but you cannot always automate the purchase. Vanguard mutual funds are almost since tax efficient because of a patent they have to reduce the taxes.
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Topic Author
ashg
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ashg »

nalor511 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:50 pm
ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Thanks everyone for sharing your inputs. After reading all teh responses, I may need reconsider. I will share a bit more context:

1. Primary bank: BofA
2. No investment experience. Just getting started, I do have savings that I want to start investing in a taxable account.
3. Have my Roth IRA/IRA with TDA.
4. Was thinking of scheduled (monthly) auto investment into account. This is where mutual funds made sense as most brokers do not offer Fraction ETFs.
5. I was thinking Vanguard as I saw most of teh folks hererecommend using Vanguard ETFs/MFs and Vanguard offers no fee MFs.

I was also thinking of using Fidelity for HSA as they seem to have no Fees and no minimums for investing. I did see that Fidelity support fractional shares/ETFs, so may be they are better option if I want to invest automatically and want good customer service. Overall then Fidelity seems like a good option if I do not want VG MFs. Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.

Thoughts?
You can also do Fidelity Zero funds at Fido, if you like MF. I do not like the extra stress of ETFs, personally.
Can you please share a bit about "extra stress of ETF"?
radiowave
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by radiowave »

MishkaWorries wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:01 pm Fidelity is probably the highest recommended HSA. I have mine there and no complaints at all. TDA, Schwab, Fidelity and Vanguard all have great mutual funds for the basic 3-4 fund portfolio. They all have good ETFs (including Vanguard ETFs) at no cost to buy or sell. Any of those brokers will get the job done. Now if you have a specific Vanguard fund you need (for instance, my wife loves Wellesley) then your choice is easy -- Vanguard.

Let me give you one more choice. I understand BoA is connected to Merrill(?) and you can get a great cashback card (I think 2.6% cashback). Maybe that is the tiebreaker for you? I apologise in advance because I may be wrong about that card. Other here are more knowledgeable.
ashg welcome to the forum.

Re above, I did the BoA/Merrill Edge combo a few years ago. Works well as an integrated whole for bank services and investments. The brokerage works well if you have ETFs. If you have mutual funds, they charge a broker fee for transactions and that didn't suit my mutual fund portfolio, so decided to abandon ME to consolidate to 2 brokerage accounts. Still have BoA bank account and card - getting less rewards overall but 3% on gas.

Note: my wife had a Roth IRA at BoA that had a CD and when it matured, decided to transfer those funds into another brokerage, BoA charged a $90 fee.
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Cheez-It Guy
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

Investing fractional shares in ETFs is nice, but if it can't be automated, it's something else you have to think about on whatever frequency you invest, and may lead to behavioral errors. For investing in a taxable account in an automated fashion with no fees, and to minimize current tax burden, it's tough to beat Vanguard mutual funds at Vanguard. Some say E*TRADE.
softwaregeek
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by softwaregeek »

radiowave wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:32 pm
MishkaWorries wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:01 pm Fidelity is probably the highest recommended HSA. I have mine there and no complaints at all. TDA, Schwab, Fidelity and Vanguard all have great mutual funds for the basic 3-4 fund portfolio. They all have good ETFs (including Vanguard ETFs) at no cost to buy or sell. Any of those brokers will get the job done. Now if you have a specific Vanguard fund you need (for instance, my wife loves Wellesley) then your choice is easy -- Vanguard.

Let me give you one more choice. I understand BoA is connected to Merrill(?) and you can get a great cashback card (I think 2.6% cashback). Maybe that is the tiebreaker for you? I apologise in advance because I may be wrong about that card. Other here are more knowledgeable.
ashg welcome to the forum.

Re above, I did the BoA/Merrill Edge combo a few years ago. Works well as an integrated whole for bank services and investments. The brokerage works well if you have ETFs. If you have mutual funds, they charge a broker fee for transactions and that didn't suit my mutual fund portfolio, so decided to abandon ME to consolidate to 2 brokerage accounts. Still have BoA bank account and card - getting less rewards overall but 3% on gas.

Note: my wife had a Roth IRA at BoA that had a CD and when it matured, decided to transfer those funds into another brokerage, BoA charged a $90 fee.
Yes, use that combo. Nice rewards from credit card when over 100k. Mortgage rate discount is the killer festure at very high balances. Got half a point off a jumbo and did a big thread on it.
RJ5
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by RJ5 »

I am probably the most boring investor, in his wealth accumulation phase and don't require anything complicated. I don't even have a 3 fund portfolio. I just throw money into VTSAX in a Vanguard Roth IRA and taxable brokerage. It's automated, and I don't need anything else from Vanguard or their website.

If I have a more complicated investing situation where I want to do extensive research and evaluation, TD or Schwab might be the better way to go (they are the same company now anyways actually). I have TD through my HSA where I invest in VTI. TD's site and analysis tools are quite extensive, but I haven't really had a need to use any of them. I just throw $ into VTI with each paycheck.

Schwab has a $500 bonus for moving over $100K, with lower tiered bonuses for lower amounts. That might be an incentive enough to give them a shot.
lakpr
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by lakpr »

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm 1. Primary bank: BofA
If the amount in your Roth IRA is more than $100k, I would suggest you open a brokerage account with Merrill Edge (not Merrill Lynch). You get a brokerage bonus for moving that level of assets, and it would also provide a 75% bonus on the Bank of America credit cards rewards. That can essentially turn even their most basic cash rewards card a 2.625% card that can be used for any purchase. You can earn up to 5.25% in some categories.

I did read some posts that BofA is thinking of either reducing the extra bonus from 75% (to what, I don't know), and/or increasing the minimum level of assets required to earn the higher bonus. So take that into consideration as well ... but as of now, the 75% extra bonus still stands.
md80only
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by md80only »

Everyone has their own taste on websites, but I've never had a problem with Merrill Edge. Since you are at BOA already, I'd recommend it. I love the 75% bonus as mentioned for 5.25% on category spend (dining, travel, online shopping for example) and 2.625% on regular.

To me, I don't see any value you in having a brokerage at Vanguard or Fidelity when you can get benefits like that at one that he connected to a bank. I also have enough in a Citi Brokerage to keep CitiGold status that pays me about $120 in points each year and other great benefits. I am going to have a fair amount of $ in an S and P 500 fund regardless, may as well have some of it there to get paid. ETF trades there are free.

But you mentioned auto investing. I used to do that with Sharebuilder but it is long gone. I love m1finance. Does auto invest, partial shares, etc. No mutual funds though. Really really easy to use. Setting aside the credit card bonus at merrill this might be a great option for you. If you are trying to keep a three fund portfolio pick your ETFs and it will constantly keep them balanced at your percentages any time new money comes in.

If you do get multiple accounts, personal capital is a great site to track across all. I got it because a friend wanted me to sign up so be could get a $20 gift card and I've loved it. And to be fair I got $20 too. I am not above chasing bonuses either. It is free to move out of merrill, at least partially, so I will do that when a good bonus is out there.

Oh and I agree on Fidelity HSA, best option out there.
CurlyDave
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by CurlyDave »

I am currently at TDA and like them a lot.

I am hoping that when Schwab completes the acquisition I will have a choice of the best features of TDA and the best of Schwab.

TDA allows a "trailing stop" order which, the last time I looked, Vanguard did not. Some people on this board might never want to use it, but DW and I use trailing stops all the time. I am not saying that the orders activate, but a 10 or 15% trailing stop allows us to be a bit more adventurous in our investments.
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Hookem_1
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by Hookem_1 »

I have both TD Ameritrade and Vanguard. Online Vanguard is much more user friendly than TD Ameritrade. Right now you can’t initiate recurring mutual fund investments online at TD Ameritrade. You have to call a rep to start one and when you want to make changes. That’s inconvenient
wander
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by wander »

I only have one international real estate fund at Vanguard. I don't like dealing with fund transfer so I leave it there untouched until I retire. I have new money going to other places.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by backpacker61 »

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.
I have a preference for Vanguard's actively managed tax exempt bond funds/Admiral share class; which aren't available anywhere else but Vanguard. Tax exempt bonds may or may not be relevant to your situation at the current time.

Think if I were in your shoes, since you already have IRA's at TDA, I would continue with them and open your taxable brokerage account there, also.

There is a lot of benefit to not scattering your accounts all over the place. It's easier to make sure that your beneficiaries are up to date. Less paperwork at tax time. One or two should be fine. It can be a lot easier to open accounts than it is to close them out, so I (now) try to be disciplined about not opening more than necessary.
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btenny
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by btenny »

I like Wells Fargo and Wells Trade as the best combination better than all the ones listed above. I have been a Wells Fargo checking customer for decades and a Wells Trade customer for years. WF has all the account types I need at one place and one log on and easy management and transfers between all accounts. I have full checking, a brokerage account, a IRA account, a cash back credit card, a debit card and lots of ATMs all over the US to use as needed. They carry Vanguard funds and ETFs and I hold many of them in my accounts. They have low cash interest rates but I do not care as I use BIL (3month tbill etf) to hold most of my cash when it is not invested. In my case all trades are free. I also get a big safe deposit box to keep special papers and my disks for computer backups and photos.

I also use TDA and have some accounts there. I have been there for years and transferred from Scottrade. They are Ok. They charge me a few $$ for ETF trades when I rebalance annually but nothing else. I do not get discounts for account size or anything special. They auto reinvest dividends and cap gains of my Vanguard mutual funds in my IRA for zero cost. I am there to diversify my assets across banks.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by lakpr »

With Wells Fargo, you get not only the accounts you ask for, but also the accounts you have not asked for and you never knew you needed in the first place! Truly an amazing outfit!
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by neilpilot »

btenny wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:12 pm

I also use TDA and have some accounts there. I have been there for years and transferred from Scottrade. They are Ok. They charge me a few $$ for ETF trades when I rebalance annually but nothing else. I do not get discounts for account size or anything special. They auto reinvest dividends and cap gains of my Vanguard mutual funds in my IRA for zero cost. I am there to diversify my assets across banks.
TDA doesn’t charge a commission on online ETF trades.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by backpacker61 »

lakpr wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:45 pm With Wells Fargo, you get not only the accounts you ask for, but also the accounts you have not asked for and you never knew you needed in the first place! Truly an amazing outfit!
Yeah, I had the same thought.

I've been avoiding the "too big to fail" banks (including WF, BoA/ME, Chase, Citi, etc) since they created the last big foo paw.
“Now shall I walk or shall I ride? | 'Ride,' Pleasure said; | 'Walk,' Joy replied.” | | ― W.H. Davies
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by fundseeker »

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 6:30 pm
nalor511 wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:50 pm
ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Thanks everyone for sharing your inputs. After reading all teh responses, I may need reconsider. I will share a bit more context:

1. Primary bank: BofA
2. No investment experience. Just getting started, I do have savings that I want to start investing in a taxable account.
3. Have my Roth IRA/IRA with TDA.
4. Was thinking of scheduled (monthly) auto investment into account. This is where mutual funds made sense as most brokers do not offer Fraction ETFs.
5. I was thinking Vanguard as I saw most of teh folks hererecommend using Vanguard ETFs/MFs and Vanguard offers no fee MFs.

I was also thinking of using Fidelity for HSA as they seem to have no Fees and no minimums for investing. I did see that Fidelity support fractional shares/ETFs, so may be they are better option if I want to invest automatically and want good customer service. Overall then Fidelity seems like a good option if I do not want VG MFs. Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.

Thoughts?
You can also do Fidelity Zero funds at Fido, if you like MF. I do not like the extra stress of ETFs, personally.
Can you please share a bit about "extra stress of ETF"?
I was not the one who said ETFs are more stressful than MFs, but I agree, mainly because I do not want to learn all about them, and it appears that Vanguard is going to make everyone switch to them. My limited understanding is that their share prices fluctuate throughout the day, and I do not want to have to wonder if I am buying at the wrong time. For MFs, the price is set at the close of business each day. That has always been very simple. I do not trade regularly with the money I have in MFs, but if I need to add or withdraw, I can do that electronically just before closing and I will know the price.

I have used Vanguard and Fidelity for many years, and I very rarely ever need to talk to anyone there. I am not sure why so many people need their support. I spent some time talking to them when I established our Donor Advised Fund at Fidelity (great decision), which we funded with appreciated shares held at Vanguard, and that was a real pain on the Vanguard side. I am not sure the person at Vanguard had a clue about donating appreciated shares. It was scary.

So, I'd vote for Fidelity, but you can use both. Sometimes I wonder whether some of the contributors on this site are Vanguard employees who are required to contribute as part of their job. If there are such people, it'd be nice if they'd disclose that fact.

Finally, I have also used TD for many years, but just for some play money where I have traded stocks for more than 20 years. But like my experience with VG and Fido, I rarely ever need to talk to anyone there.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by retired@50 »

lakpr wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 9:45 pm With Wells Fargo, you get not only the accounts you ask for, but also the accounts you have not asked for and you never knew you needed in the first place! Truly an amazing outfit!
+1
My FIL was a victim of their shenanigans, it took several weeks, multiple visits, and phone calls to a branch to get an account closed. Yuk.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

ashg wrote: Thu Jan 14, 2021 6:32 pm I am planning to open IRA and Taxable accounts. My goal is to follow the 3 fund strategy for most part. Given this, are there any suggestions for using Vanguard vs TD Ameritrade or any other broker?
My personal preference is Vanguard. We have had all accounts with Vanguard since 2005, with no problems whatsoever. I chose them for their very broad, unparalleled menu of low expense mutual funds, and because I found their website easy to use.

In addition to their own exchange traded funds (ETFs) Vanguard now also offers over 3,800 ETFs of other providers commission free. pdf, link

My second choice would be Fidelity, and third Schwab.

ashg wrote: Fri Jan 15, 2021 5:47 pm Thanks everyone for sharing your inputs. After reading all teh responses, I may need reconsider. I will share a bit more context:

1. Primary bank: BofA
2. No investment experience. Just getting started, I do have savings that I want to start investing in a taxable account.
3. Have my Roth IRA/IRA with TDA.
4. Was thinking of scheduled (monthly) auto investment into account. This is where mutual funds made sense as most brokers do not offer Fraction ETFs.
5. I was thinking Vanguard as I saw most of teh folks hererecommend using Vanguard ETFs/MFs and Vanguard offers no fee MFs.

I was also thinking of using Fidelity for HSA as they seem to have no Fees and no minimums for investing. I did see that Fidelity support fractional shares/ETFs, so may be they are better option if I want to invest automatically and want good customer service. Overall then Fidelity seems like a good option if I do not want VG MFs. Which leaves me with the question, do I really want VG MFs, or VG ETFs are good enough.

Thoughts?
For automated investing use Vanguard mutual funds in accounts at Vanguard.

With mutual funds it's easy to set up automatic investment of new contributions, and easy to set up automatic reinvestment of dividends. That can't be done with ETFs.

Vanguard mutual funds are more than tax-efficient than Fidelity or Schwab mutual funds. If you use Fidelity ZERO funds they can never be moved to another brokerage.

We use only Vanguard mutual funds in accounts at Vanguard (joint taxable account, two Roth IRAs, my rollover IRA). For banking services (joint checking account, credit cards, debit cards) we use a branch bank near our home.

For an investor just getting started a quick lesson in investing basics is Dr. Bernstein's free pdf book "If You Can" . I also suggest that you read one or or two other books on investing. Wiki article "Books: recommendations and reviews", link.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by backpacker61 »

fundseeker wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 9:01 am I was not the one who said ETFs are more stressful than MFs, but I agree, mainly because I do not want to learn all about them, and it appears that Vanguard is going to make everyone switch to them. My limited understanding is that their share prices fluctuate throughout the day, and I do not want to have to wonder if I am buying at the wrong time. For MFs, the price is set at the close of business each day. That has always been very simple. I do not trade regularly with the money I have in MFs, but if I need to add or withdraw, I can do that electronically just before closing and I will know the price.
I don't see Vanguard forcing everyone to switch to ETF's at all.

The advantage of mutual funds, to me, is that I can schedule $250 (or whatever) per month, to come out of my checking account and be invested in a mutual fund on the same day (or closest business day) of each month. I've been investing that way since 1985, and it's worked fine for me. You can't do that with ETF's, at any of the providers that I'm aware of. It seems as if it should be possible with the providers that offer trading in fractional shares of ETF's, but I haven't seen any of them offer it yet.

On the decumulation side, I have an IRA, and I can use Vanguard's IRA RMD distribution service to automatically sell an amount out of Vanguard mutual funds each month, to be deposited into my checking account, once each month, or quarterly, using Vanguard's RMD managed distribution service. This is an easy way to turn my IRA lump sum into a steady stream of income to support my livelihood in retirement (though variable, from one year to the next; it changing with my age and the account balance on the last day of the previous year).

https://investor.vanguard.com/retiremen ... e/rmd-faqs

Which funds can I take my RMD from?

You can tap any of the Vanguard mutual funds in your retirement account. Generally, you have three options. You can withdraw a specific amount from each fund, withdraw a certain percentage of your RMD from each of several funds, or withdraw from each fund according to its share of the IRA assets.


Note that this doesn't work for ETF's, or CEF's, individual stocks or bonds, or even non-Vanguard mutual funds. At other broker-dealers, you will need to use their own mutual funds also (Fidelity at Fidelity, Schwab at Schwab, etc.)
I have used Vanguard and Fidelity for many years, and I very rarely ever need to talk to anyone there. I am not sure why so many people need their support.
When you have a death in the family (as I did last year), if you have inherited assets at the fund company, you will understand why some people need to be in touch with their financial services provider (to transfer/consolidate assets from other providers, retitle trust accounts, step up cost bases, distribute assets to other beneficiaries, etc.)
Last edited by backpacker61 on Sun Jan 17, 2021 10:32 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ruralavalon »

Vanguard has not been making investors switch to exchange traded funds (ETFs). I have switched all four of the our Vanguard accounts from the mutual fund only platform to the new brokerage platform, and still use regular mutual funds rather than ETFs.

There was no pressure or even a suggestion to switch to ETFs.

We use Vanguard's Required Minimum Distribution (RMD) service to automatically distribute proportionally from each fund in my rollover IRA to our joint checking account every month.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link: Bogleheads® investment philosophy
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by btenny »

Everyone. Do you understand that selecting a stock brokerage company is a compromise?

Yes Wells did some account stuff to some customers back when. Good customers were not effected. They have fixed their issues. They have great customer service and lots of product offerings all bundled.

Vanguard has terrible customer service and makes huge mistakes sometimes. They take weeks and months to do things or fix and correct errors. As far as I know Vanguard has not done anything to fix these problems or improve service or reduce the error rate. They remind me of Mr Scrooge. Never spend any money no matter if it might improve things and help lots of customers.

TDA has poor cash account offerings and limited check writing but great customer service. They have lot of offices and agents to help with investing issues. They address issues fast, usually in one day.

All three companies have broad offerings in ETFs and regular funds. All three have OK to good web sites. Wells and TDA have lots of real offices with real customer service people to help fix problems. Vanguard has none.

In my accounts at Wells and at TDA I hold several Vanguard Admiral funds and add to them regularly via auto investing dividends. I pay no fees in any accounts. I get great service at both companies.

Customers need to decide if Vanguards poor web service and limited or no real person contact is how they want to do business. I tried to work with them twice. Both times I was given poor service. All they wanted was for me to transfer $$ and give them control by me signing papers and wait weeks for a different phone representative each time. So I stay where I can go talk to people face to face if I have issues or special tasks solved fast.

Good Luck.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by md80only »

backpacker61 wrote: Sat Jan 16, 2021 7:14 pm There is a lot of benefit to not scattering your accounts all over the place. It's easier to make sure that your beneficiaries are up to date. Less paperwork at tax time. One or two should be fine. It can be a lot easier to open accounts than it is to close them out, so I (now) try to be disciplined about not opening more than necessary.
I heard this. And there is a lot of arguments against my strategy to have a lot of accounts. I used to use CreditKarma Tax but now have to use Turbo Tax because I have income in more than one state. Turbo Tax makes it very easy to get all my brokerages docs in and is practically automatic.

So yeah, you'll cringe but here's what I have and why.
  • M1 Finance
  • Brokerage Account
  • Majority of my investable money goes here each month. It automatically works to keep my portfolio at my designated %'s across ETFs and stocks. Free and love it.
  • TIAA
  • 403b, 457b
  • No options to do this elsewhere, and the fund options are actually pretty good. I make the max contribution to both.
  • Merrill Edge
  • Brokerage, Roth, 529
  • Their 529 is great if you need one, and doing the backdoor Roth there is very, very easy. Takes minutes. I am only currently putting my $6,000 backdoor Roth into Merrill.
  • I will always keep at least $100k across accounts at Merrill for the Credit Card bonuses, it is unmatchable in my opinion. But I might move the Brokerage out at some point.
  • Fidelity
  • HSA
  • I think their HSA is 10/10. Zero funds and other great options. This is not my work's preferred provider, but I like it and am saving money on fees by being there.
  • Citi
  • Brokerage
  • I am not adding $ here but have $VOO and $SCHA positions there and a couple other smaller positions in $BIF and $C. All dividends I transfer out and put into M1. I keep $200k here to get the benefits on CitiGold, which are worth $300 a year
So yeah, I get it. But, I get over $1,000 a year by keeping all these open. And it is simple to track in Personal Capital. And as soon as another brokerage has a good enough offer, I will move out my Merrill Brokerage (which is free) to get to the bonus. Will probably move it back once the bonus lands. There was a great offer for Chase Sapphire Checking/You Invest, so I am hoping that comes back soon.

And with Personal Capital, it is very easy to manage and see what's happening. But I recognize it is by no means simple. I could simplify by doing dividend reinvestment at Citi, then I'd never need to even look there.
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by retired@50 »

btenny wrote: Sun Jan 17, 2021 11:11 am Yes Wells did some account stuff to some customers back when. Good customers were not effected. They have fixed their issues. They have great customer service and lots of product offerings all bundled.
Good customers were not affected - How could you possibly know this? Have you interviewed or polled the thousands of customers who were affected by their behavior? If not, this statement is nothing more than a guess, or conjecture.

Unless you were a victim, how could you know if things have been fixed? I would imagine there are many former customers across the USA that will never walk into a Wells Fargo branch again. Reputation matters, especially in a "trust" industry like banking and lending.

Corporate Rap Sheet: https://www.corp-research.org/wells-fargo

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by btenny »

You do recognize that many banks and brokerage firms have issues and regularly pay big fines. See below for Bank of America issues and fines they paid. Also discussed is how Merrill Lynch was involved with the predatory mortgage lending crash of 2007.

https://www.corp-research.org/bank-of-america
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by retired@50 »

btenny wrote: Mon Jan 18, 2021 10:36 am You do recognize that many banks and brokerage firms have issues and regularly pay big fines. See below for Bank of America issues and fines they paid. Also discussed is how Merrill Lynch was involved with the predatory mortgage lending crash of 2007.

https://www.corp-research.org/bank-of-america
I do recognize this.
This is why I only use my local credit union and invest with Vanguard.

Of all the complaints we've seen on this forum about Vanguard, I've never seen one about how Vanguard was sued by the SEC or any other part of the Federal government.

Regards,
If liberty means anything at all it means the right to tell people what they do not want to hear. -George Orwell
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ashg
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Re: Brokerage Account at TD or Vanguard

Post by ashg »

Thanks everyone for great advise. I am thinking of starting with VG for following reasons:
1. It serves the need for simple portfolio where I am planning to have Vanguard MFs ( due to tax efficiencies and no fees)
2. I can manage my auto investment needs by investing into MFs on regular basis; no additional fees
3. I can decide to covert MFs to ETF and move to a different broker in future if need be.

I do not have much in my current IRA accounts at TD, so thinking of closing them and transfer to new VG IRA accounts. Thus in end will end up with HSA at Fidelity and all others at VG. I prefer not to have too many accounts to keep it simple.

I do see that customer service may be an issues, but I am hoping with simple strategy of 3 funds I may be able to rely less on the customer service and just let it work out after initial setup. Long term plan would be to move to Fidelity, if I need good customer service and VG cannot meet my basic needs.

PS: I did get a Personal Capital free account started to get a consolidated view across accounts.
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