Purchasing MYGAs (multi year guaranteed annuities) - mega thread

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HueyLD
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by HueyLD »

Mauwong stated: “ 2. The annuity application doesn't have the guaranteed rate listed anywhere in the application. BPI assured me that this is standard and re-confirmed the rate separately on an e-mail.”

Not true. The guaranteed rate, term and minimum rate are clearly shown on page one of form OVLAC-MYGA-DISC which is part of the application package. Note that the policy issuing company is Oceanview.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by stepaway »

HueyLD wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:22 pm Mauwong stated: “ 2. The annuity application doesn't have the guaranteed rate listed anywhere in the application. BPI assured me that this is standard and re-confirmed the rate separately on an e-mail.”

Not true. The guaranteed rate, term and minimum rate are clearly shown on page one of form OVLAC-MYGA-DISC which is part of the application package. Note that the policy issuing company is Oceanview.
BPI's response excerpt: "The majority of insurers do no list interest rates on their applications, however, you will see the interest rate clearly specified on the final copy of your policy once it is issued." So Oceanview is not one of the majority. :P

Oceanview is one of the insurer that I was interested in but it's not an option for CA.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

mauwong wrote: Mon Feb 01, 2021 3:02 pm 4. I noticed certain errors in the SBLI application and went back and forth twice with BPI to correct them. One thing that really bothered me is that I was told that I could go ahead and sign the e-doc after the 1st revision although I noted a subsequent error. I was told that the correction will be done after e-signing and this is a usual practice with insurance application process. I pushed back and insisted that BPI makes the correction before signing. I'm glad I did since as soon as I signed the application, it was soon countersigned by BPI.

The first 3 issues are immaterial as BPI was able alleviate them, but I'm still surprised that subsequent revisions can be made after signing though understandably this is just the application, not the actual document. Is this really standard with the annuity process? I'm new at this so I'm probably being overly cautious.
I guess this depends on the type of correction. For example, in my purchase of the Canvas MYGA (not through Blueprint), there was no place to specify a contingent beneficiary on the application. I was told to add the contingent beneficiary AFTER the policy was issued.

When I purchased through Blueprint, they had always made any corrections I told them before I signed the policy.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by HueyLD »

Has anyone added a contingent beneficiary after the policy was issued? Was it easy or difficult?

Seems like a very inefficient practice for the insurance company because it involves more work for both the insurance company and the customer.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

From our very own “Nedsaid”
nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:16 pm Investor, there's no need to feel down.
Investor, pick yourself off the ground,
Investor, don't let low rates get you down,
There's no need to be unhappy.

Investor, there's a place you can go
When you make nothing on your dough
You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time

It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by nedsaid »

Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:33 pm From our very own “Nedsaid”
nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:16 pm Investor, there's no need to feel down.
Investor, pick yourself off the ground,
Investor, don't let low rates get you down,
There's no need to be unhappy.

Investor, there's a place you can go
When you make nothing on your dough
You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time

It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
I suppose I will face a copyright infringement suit from the Village People now. I am also approaching the limits of the fun that is allowed here! I could get sued and banned from just one post! :wink: Yep, riding the edge, sort of like driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone and rolling the windows down a crack to let the wind whistle. I was born to be mild.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:45 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:33 pm From our very own “Nedsaid”
nedsaid wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 1:16 pm Investor, there's no need to feel down.
Investor, pick yourself off the ground,
Investor, don't let low rates get you down,
There's no need to be unhappy.

Investor, there's a place you can go
When you make nothing on your dough
You can stay there, and I'm sure you will find
Many ways to have a good time

It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
It's fun to stay at the M-Y-G-A
I suppose I will face a copyright infringement suit from the Village People now. I am also approaching the limits of the fun that is allowed here! I could get sued and banned from just one post! :wink: Yep, riding the edge, sort of like driving 56 mph in a 55 mph zone and rolling the windows down a crack to let the wind whistle. I was born to be mild.
Hey, what? I missed the fun.

On further investigation, I see this came from the "U.S. stocks continue to soar!" thread. LOL.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Broken Man 1999 »

I checked Stan the Annuity Man and Blueprint, 3% seems available for a 5 year MYGA. I'll check Canvas and Gainbridge later.

I think MYGAs might be a good investment, I am just averse to adding more complexity to my TIRA. Our Roths do not hold any fixed income, only equity ETFs. My TIRA has more moving parts already.

MYGAs might be a good investment for DWs TIRA. She has a distribution of $500/month, and that is the only activity in her TIRA.

Perhaps I could put all her fixed income into MYGAs, a little over $100,000. Currently all her fixed income is in ST and IT Treasury Index fund/ETF. I can't see ST or IT treasury bond funds reaching that yield without some tanking as well. Plus, our state's annuity coverage is $250,000/per person/per company.

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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

Broken Man 1999 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 2:34 pm I checked Stan the Annuity Man and Blueprint, 3% seems available for a 5 year MYGA. I'll check Canvas and Gainbridge later.

I think MYGAs might be a good investment, I am just averse to adding more complexity to my TIRA. Our Roths do not hold any fixed income, only equity ETFs. My TIRA has more moving parts already.

MYGAs might be a good investment for DWs TIRA. She has a distribution of $500/month, and that is the only activity in her TIRA.

Perhaps I could put all her fixed income into MYGAs, a little over $100,000. Currently all her fixed income is in ST and IT Treasury Index fund/ETF. I can't see ST or IT treasury bond funds reaching that yield without some tanking as well. Plus, our state's annuity coverage is $250,000/per person/per company.

Broken Man 1999
Gainbridge does not currently sell qualified annuities. So no need to check there.

Canvas has the most attractive rates available at the current time. They’re paying 3.50% for seven years, and 3.25% for five years. Their qualified annuity process is semi manual, or at least it was when I went through it about a month ago. But it works.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by bog007 »

anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:15 pm anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
I bought it. 6 months in. No problems.

Of course, it’s a B+ company. But it’s also just a 2 year contract.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by bog007 »

Ok ty

On this flex fund. It says Get your initial premium back anytime.

Does that also mean you lose the interest you made after say 2 years and want to take all the money out after 2 years instead of the 3 year rate. but you get the original amount back

canvas Flex Fund
MAXIMUM ACCESS
Guaranteed crediting rates for the terms below:

3 YEAR TERM2.40%
5 YEAR TERM3.00%
7 YEAR TERM3.10%
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:27 pm Ok ty

On this flex fund. It says Get your initial premium back anytime.

Does that also mean you lose the interest you made after say 2 years and want to take all the money out after 2 years instead of the 3 year rate. but you get the original amount back

canvas Flex Fund
MAXIMUM ACCESS
Guaranteed crediting rates for the terms below:

3 YEAR TERM2.40%
5 YEAR TERM3.00%
7 YEAR TERM3.10%
Yes, that’s what it means.

You’ve lost your interest until you get to the place where the cumulative interest earned is greater than the then-current surrender charge.

It’s effectively an increasing surrender charge that later decreases. Kinda strange.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by bog007 »

ok ty. that 3 YEAR TERM 2.75% on the regular Canvas Future Fund is nice
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

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bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 4:46 pm ok ty. that 3 YEAR TERM 2.75% on the regular Canvas Future Fund is nice
I can’t disagree with that.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:32 pm
bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:15 pm anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
I bought it. 6 months in. No problems.

Of course, it’s a B+ company. But it’s also just a 2 year contract.
I just checked with Blueprint. It seems like @ 2.15%, this MYGA does not include the death benefit. But, it could be different in your state.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

indexfundfan wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:27 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:32 pm
bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:15 pm anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
I bought it. 6 months in. No problems.

Of course, it’s a B+ company. But it’s also just a 2 year contract.
I just checked with Blueprint. It seems like @ 2.15%, this MYGA does not include the death benefit. But, it could be different in your state.
Yes, I’m living on the edge with that MYGA. You’re right - death benefit equals surrender value.

I just need to live 18 more months. :P
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

Stinky wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:36 pm
indexfundfan wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:27 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:32 pm
bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:15 pm anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
I bought it. 6 months in. No problems.

Of course, it’s a B+ company. But it’s also just a 2 year contract.
I just checked with Blueprint. It seems like @ 2.15%, this MYGA does not include the death benefit. But, it could be different in your state.
Yes, I’m living on the edge with that MYGA. You’re right - death benefit equals surrender value.

I just need to live 18 more months. :P
I guess it might not be that big of a deal. It just means that your beneficiary needs to wait for maturity before taking out the money.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

HueyLD wrote: Tue Feb 02, 2021 7:44 am Has anyone added a contingent beneficiary after the policy was issued? Was it easy or difficult?

Seems like a very inefficient practice for the insurance company because it involves more work for both the insurance company and the customer.
I just found out that to add a contingent beneficiary for the Puritan MYGA, you need to print and complete a paper form and mail it in. And you also need to find a non-interested party to witness it. This is hard during the current environment.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Sammy_M »

If you purchase MYGAs using traditional IRA money, does it retain its status as IRA for application of the pro-rata rule (in relation to 'backdoor Roth' strategies)?
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

Sammy_M wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 9:33 am If you purchase MYGAs using traditional IRA money, does it retain its status as IRA for application of the pro-rata rule (in relation to 'backdoor Roth' strategies)?
Yes, it does.

You can have multiple IRA accounts, like at a bank, Vanguard, Fidelity, etc. All of the IRA accounts are aggregated for the application of the pro-rata rule.

For this purpose, IRA accounts at insurance companies are no different than IRA accounts anywhere else.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by RetireBy55 »

These MYGAs (especially Canvas/Puritan) look pretty attractive, but so far I've been able to find VERY little information about either company.

I even checked LinkedIn. Puritan Life has only *13* employees listed, including the President of the company. Canvas had *2*.

There's no "about us" or "history of the company" that I could find on the Puritan Life or Canvas websites.

These companies MAY be entirely legit and fine. But the lack of available information to do actual, in-depth due diligence gives me significant pause.

Anyone else feel the same? I get the "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" feeling about this one.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by rgs »

Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:32 pm
bog007 wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 3:15 pm anybody buy silac at 2 year 2.15%? any problems?

https://www.blueprintincome.com/fixed-annuities?terms=2
I bought it. 6 months in. No problems.

Of course, it’s a B+ company. But it’s also just a 2 year contract.
I too bought a 2YR from SILAC (albeit a smaller amount) 2-3 months ago. Good so far
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

RetireBy55 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:11 pm These MYGAs (especially Canvas/Puritan) look pretty attractive, but so far I've been able to find VERY little information about either company.

I even checked LinkedIn. Puritan Life has only *13* employees listed, including the President of the company. Canvas had *2*.

There's no "about us" or "history of the company" that I could find on the Puritan Life or Canvas websites.

These companies MAY be entirely legit and fine. But the lack of available information to do actual, in-depth due diligence gives me significant pause.

Anyone else feel the same? I get the "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" feeling about this one.
I agree - Puritan Life doesn't appear to have a very long history, at least under its current business model.

Per Google, Puritan Life Insurance Company of America was founded in 1958. It historically wrote of mix of life and health business. However, I do not believe that it entered the annuity market until fairly recently, when it formed the Canvas insurance agency and started selling MYGAs directly to consumers. So, it's relatively new in the annuity space.

I take comfort in the AM Best rating of B++, which is a reasonably good rating. I know from my personal experience of interfacing with rating agencies (including AM Best) during the 40+ years that I worked for a major life insurance company that the rating agencies take their job very seriously. The rating agencies are presented with full financial information on an insurance company, and projections showing the level of sales, profits, and capital over the next several years. The rating agencies meet with company senior management annually to assess their competence and ability to carry out their business plan successfully. They review all of the regulatory filings, including exhaustive financial information.

But, at the end of the day, Puritan Life is in the starting phases of its direct to consumer annuity venture. I've chosen to purchase a MYGA from them. But others may wish to go with a company with a longer track record in the annuity space.
Last edited by Stinky on Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:35 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by 7eight9 »

RetireBy55 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 2:11 pm These MYGAs (especially Canvas/Puritan) look pretty attractive, but so far I've been able to find VERY little information about either company.

I even checked LinkedIn. Puritan Life has only *13* employees listed, including the President of the company. Canvas had *2*.

There's no "about us" or "history of the company" that I could find on the Puritan Life or Canvas websites.

These companies MAY be entirely legit and fine. But the lack of available information to do actual, in-depth due diligence gives me significant pause.

Anyone else feel the same? I get the "if it's too good to be true, it probably is" feeling about this one.
Lots of information on the California Department of Insurance website --- https://interactive.web.insurance.ca.go ... e&eid=6958

Quarterly Statement as of 09.30.20 --- https://interactive.web.insurance.ca.go ... 010669.pdf
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by RetireBy55 »

Thanks..appreciate the info.

Anyone know how many actual employees Puritan Life has? Can't seem to find that anywhere, and surprised at the results of my search on LinkedIn (which only found 13 people registered as working for the company). For grins, I pulled up Prudential Life..27,853 employees on LI. Mutual of Omaha - 7,595 employees on LI..

Everything else aside, it's surprising that there does not seem to be "any" info about the company on their website - officers, financial statements, major milestones throughout their history, etc..that's pretty basic stuff that almost any company has on their site.

Very weird. The product looks great - but without that very basic info it's tough to have the comfort level needed to make an investment.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

RetireBy55 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 3:17 pm Thanks..appreciate the info.

Anyone know how many actual employees Puritan Life has? Can't seem to find that anywhere, and surprised at the results of my search on LinkedIn (which only found 13 people registered as working for the company). For grins, I pulled up Prudential Life..27,853 employees on LI. Mutual of Omaha - 7,595 employees on LI..

Everything else aside, it's surprising that there does not seem to be "any" info about the company on their website - officers, financial statements, major milestones throughout their history, etc..that's pretty basic stuff that almost any company has on their site.

Very weird. The product looks great - but without that very basic info it's tough to have the comfort level needed to make an investment.
At the end of the day, you’ve got to do what’s right for you.

I don’t have any personal or specialized knowledge about Puritan, and I doubt that anyone else here does. So what information you’ve got is what you’ve got.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by RetireBy55 »

Stinky wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:20 pm At the end of the day, you’ve got to do what’s right for you.

I don’t have any personal or specialized knowledge about Puritan, and I doubt that anyone else here does. So what information you’ve got is what you’ve got.
Sure..but not unreasonable to think that others had already done some due diligence and found out some of this before making (presumably sizable) investments with Canvas/Puritan..

That's what I was hoping to hear. But if the net is that people are comfortable NOT having that level of basic info and still buying..that's fine, but not something I'm personally good with. Way too much risk when you can't even find out who the company's officers or directors are, how many employees they have, etc. That's pretty basic stuff that I assumed we all want to know when talking about making a sizable investment.

Hope it works out for those who have purchased. It does appear to be a compelling product. But without more info about the company, I'm gonna pass.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by 7eight9 »

RetireBy55 wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:25 pm
Stinky wrote: Sat Feb 13, 2021 4:20 pm At the end of the day, you’ve got to do what’s right for you.

I don’t have any personal or specialized knowledge about Puritan, and I doubt that anyone else here does. So what information you’ve got is what you’ve got.
Sure..but not unreasonable to think that others had already done some due diligence and found out some of this before making (presumably sizable) investments with Canvas/Puritan..

That's what I was hoping to hear. But if the net is that people are comfortable NOT having that level of basic info and still buying..that's fine, but not something I'm personally good with. Way too much risk when you can't even find out who the company's officers or directors are, how many employees they have, etc. That's pretty basic stuff that I assumed we all want to know when talking about making a sizable investment.

Hope it works out for those who have purchased. It does appear to be a compelling product. But without more info about the company, I'm gonna pass.
Just FYI - Officers and directors are listed on the first page of the Quarterly Statement --- https://interactive.web.insurance.ca.go ... 010669.pdf
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

For every MYGA I have bought, I verified at minimum the following two items:

1. The insurer's AM Best rating is as stated from the AM Best website. I make sure that the addresses are the same, so we are talking about the same entity.

2. The insurer is licensed to operate in my state. Again, I make sure the addresses match. If the insurer is properly licensed, at least I can depend on the state insurance guaranty if anything happens.

I recently bought a 3-yr MYGA from Canvas. I am shopping for another one, with a 5-yr term. But for the 5-yr term, I would probably go with Americo for their better risk rating (AM Best A), albeit with a lower rate of 2.7% compared to the 3.25% from Canvas.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Woot! »

I'm getting ready to fund a 4-year MYGA with Oceanview Life which is currently offering an attractive 2.6% rate. They have an AM Best A- rating and are licensed in my state so there's the guarantee association coverage. Still, reviewing their financials, I see that their net income recently has been increasingly in the red. Bond quality is excellent, but yields are below my MYGA rate. I wonder how they're making money.

EDIT: I have removed the financial reports since I am uncertain if they could potentially be copyrighted material.
Last edited by Woot! on Sun Feb 14, 2021 4:43 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

Woot! wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 12:55 pm I'm getting ready to fund a 4-year MYGA with Oceanview Life which is currently offering an attractive 2.6% rate. They have an AM Best A- rating and are licensed in my state so there's the guarantee association coverage. Still, reviewing their financials, I see that their net income recently has been increasingly in the red. Bond quality is excellent, but yields are below my MYGA rate. I wonder how they're making money.
On the investment rate - I’m confident that the company’s pricing actuaries are looking at the interest rate they can earn on new investments in setting their crediting rates. They’re not focused on the earned rate on legacy assets.

On the losses - these financials are prepared on the basis of “statutory”, aka regulatory accounting. Stat accounting is quite conservative, especially in its treatment of acquisition costs on new business, all of which must be immediately expensed. Therefore, companies that are writing new business often show statutory losses, even when they are nicely profitable on a GAAP basis.
Last edited by Stinky on Sun Feb 14, 2021 5:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Woot! »

Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:07 pm On the investment rate - I’m confident that the company’s pricing actuaries are looking at the interest rate they can earn on new investments in setting their crediting rates. They’re not focused on the earned rate on legacy assets.

On the losses - these financials are prepared on the basis of “statutory”, aka regulatory accounting. Stat accounting is quite conservative, especially in its treatment of acquisition costs on new business, all of which must be immediately expensed. Therefore, companies that are writing new business often show statutory losses, even when they are nicely profitable on a GAAP basis.
Thanks, Stinky. Your explanation of the statutory losses makes sense. But with respect to the interest rate Oceanview can earn on new investments, I'm less sure I'm seeing it. Oceanview's legacy 5-year investment yield averaged 0.97%, and bond yields have only decreased since then. What kind of new non-risky investments would provide them yields high enough that they can still make money while paying out 2.6% on 4-year annuities plus a 0.8% to 3% commission to brokers? The average junk bond yield recently dropped to below 4%.
Last edited by Woot! on Sun Feb 14, 2021 2:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

Woot! wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:48 pm
Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:07 pm On the investment rate - I’m confident that the company’s pricing actuaries are looking at the interest rate they can earn on new investments in setting their crediting rates. They’re not focused on the earned rate on legacy assets.

On the losses - these financials are prepared on the basis of “statutory”, aka regulatory accounting. Stat accounting is quite conservative, especially in its treatment of acquisition costs on new business, all of which must be immediately expensed. Therefore, companies that are writing new business often show statutory losses, even when they are nicely profitable on a GAAP basis.
Thanks, Stinky. Your explanation of the statutory losses makes sense. But with respect to the interest rate Oceanview can earn on new investments, I'm less sure I'm seeing it. Oceanview's legacy 5-year investment yield averaged 0.97%, and bond yields have only decreased since then. What kind of new non-risky investments would provide them yields high enough that they can still make money while paying out 2.6% on 4-year annuities plus a 0.8% to 3% commission to brokers?
Look at the 5 year results of the company. The interest rate has trended steadily upward, and was 2.48% in the most recent year shown, 2018. (It would be nice to see 2019 and 2020). That’s a decent average rate, given that 16% of their assets are in cash and short term assets.

As I said above, the company’s pricing actuaries are looking at the interest rate on new assets they can purchase, and are shooting to produce a satisfactory profit for the company. I’m confident that they’ve done that assessment in a way they supports the current credited rate.

At the end of the day, buying any kind of insurance requires placing confidence in others. In the case of buying a MYGA, you’re placing confidence in -
—- Company management, to hire competent actuaries and advisors and generally manage the company
—- Insurance regulators, who keep a watchful eye on all of the company’s activities
—- External auditors, which every insurance company must have
—- Rating agencies, who make an overall of assessment of the company’s relative strength compared to others

And standing behind all of these folks are the state guaranty funds, who will backstop insurance companies that get into trouble and endeavor to make every policyholder whole.

Full disclosure - I also own an Oceanview MYGA.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by HueyLD »

“ Net Investment Income: Investment income earned during the year less investment expenses and depreciation on real estate. An additional analysis detailing gross investment income (before investment expenses and depreciation) and gross investment yields by major asset class is detailed on page 8 of QAR.

...

Net Investment Yield: Measures the average return on a company’s invested assets by dividing the company’s annual net investment income by the mean of cash and net invested assets. This return measure is before capital gains/losses and before income taxes.“

http://www.ambest.com/Support/PC_QARUsersGuide.pdf

Net investment income is a lot less than gross investment income.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Woot! »

Stinky wrote: Sun Feb 14, 2021 1:07 pm Look at the 5 year results of the company. The interest rate has trended steadily upward, and was 2.48% in the most recent year shown, 2018. (It would be nice to see 2019 and 2020).
I would be very surprised if the rate continued trending upward in 2019 and 2020; downward is more likely given the rate environment unless they were investing in risky assets.

What you said about confidence is true, and I may make the leap of faith anyway. Short of a black swan affecting the broader insurance industry, I'd expect my state's guarantee association to make me whole if things go south. I just don't like it when an insurance company's underlying business model isn't clear to me.

I recently opened another MYGA with American Equity, another AM Best A- rated company, whose financials inspire far more confidence, with annuity yields that are good, if lower than Oceanview's. It's much clearer to me how they make money with the annuity yields they pay.

EDIT: I have removed the financial reports since I am uncertain if they could potentially be copyrighted material.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Dodgerdiehard »

Stinky, I have a 401k at Fidelity. Can I use 401k money to purchase MYGAs thru the Blueprint website? Do I need to roll the money into a traditional IRA first? Or am I limited to the MYGA choices Fidelity offers. Thanks in advance for your help.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

Dodgerdiehard wrote: Mon Feb 15, 2021 4:49 pm Stinky, I have a 401k at Fidelity. Can I use 401k money to purchase MYGAs thru the Blueprint website? Do I need to roll the money into a traditional IRA first? Or am I limited to the MYGA choices Fidelity offers. Thanks in advance for your help.
I’d be surprised if you could buy a MYGA within your 401k. The only way that I think it could work is if (a) your 401k plan had a “brokerage window” feature, and (b) the brokerage window allowed you to buy annuities. If both of those were true, then the question would be whether you could buy an annuity through any provider, or through only Fidelity.

I really doubt this would all fall into place. If you want to pursue, then I suggest starting with an outreach to the 401k team at Fidelity.

Another way you could buy a MYGA is by rolling some funds out of your 401k into an IRA, and then using IRA funds to purchase the MYGA. If you’re no longer with the employer, you should be able to roll the 401k funds to an IRA. If you’re still with the employer, you may still be able to if you qualify for an in service distribution (plan allows it, and you’re over 59.5 years old).

Post back with questions.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

It looks like Blueprint Income was acquired by Mass Mutual about two months ago. I learned about the acquisition today from a LinkedIn post by their CEO. Here’s the press release:

https://www.massmutual.com/about-us/new ... int-income

I’ve continued to be in contact with Blueprint over the past couple of months, and haven’t noticed any changes in the companies they represent or their operations.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

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“ SPRINGFIELD, Mass., Feb. 8, 2021 – Massachusetts Mutual Life Insurance Company (MassMutual) today announced the acquisition of Blueprint Income, Inc., a leading online annuity marketplace, from Stone Ridge Holdings Group.

Blueprint Income offers an online marketplace where users can purchase simple annuities, offered directly to consumers and through affinity partners. Over 1.5 million users in 2020 visited Blueprint Income for education content, quote information, and purchase fulfillment. MassMutual plans to support Blueprint Income’s recent strong growth by investing in the platform and expanding the Blueprint Income team.

“MassMutual is focused on providing a simplified, digital, customer-centric user experience, and Blueprint Income will help accelerate that strategy, ultimately allowing us to reach more people in new ways,” said Gareth Ross, MassMutual Head of Enterprise Technology and Experience. “We are excited to support Blueprint Income’s growth and strong position in the market moving forward as it continues to offer innovative retirement income solutions to consumers.”

Blueprint Income will continue to offer the best annuity products from multiple insurers through its user-friendly digital platform. Additionally, Blueprint Income will maintain its brand and continue to provide value to its customers, partners and insurers in the marketplace, operating independently from MassMutual.”

I wouldn’t be surprised that BPI will become more aggressive in pushing MassMutual products. Oh well, there are still other companies around to provide values to average retail customers.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Zosima »

I received an e-mail notice from Canvas indicating that they are dropping their rates next week (see below). Their rates are still equal to or greater than Gainbridge and insurers on main sites such as Blueprint but their rate advantage will be diminished.

"Crediting rates on Canvas’ 3, 5 and 7 year annuities will change on April 15th, 2021. To lock in our current rates, you will need to submit a signed application by April 14th, 2021. Please note that our new rates are still some of the highest on the market today. And remember, if you have already purchased a Canvas Annuity, your rate is locked in and guaranteed for the term you selected!
Rates Through 4/14/21 Rates Starting 4/15/21
3 Year - Future 2.75% 2.60%
5 Year - Future 3.25% 2.95%
7 Year - Future 3.50% 3.25%
3 Year - Flex 2.40% 2.25%
5 Year - Flex 3.00% 2.70%
7 Year - Flex 3.10% 2.85%"
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

gjlynch17 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:57 pm I received an e-mail notice from Canvas indicating that they are dropping their rates next week (see below). Their rates are still equal to or greater than Gainbridge and insurers on main sites such as Blueprint but their rate advantage will be diminished.

"Crediting rates on Canvas’ 3, 5 and 7 year annuities will change on April 15th, 2021. To lock in our current rates, you will need to submit a signed application by April 14th, 2021. Please note that our new rates are still some of the highest on the market today. And remember, if you have already purchased a Canvas Annuity, your rate is locked in and guaranteed for the term you selected!
Rates Through 4/14/21 Rates Starting 4/15/21
3 Year - Future 2.75% 2.60%
5 Year - Future 3.25% 2.95%
7 Year - Future 3.50% 3.25%
3 Year - Flex 2.40% 2.25%
5 Year - Flex 3.00% 2.70%
7 Year - Flex 3.10% 2.85%"
To be honest, I’m surprised that Canvas has held their rates as long as they have. Most all carriers have reduced rates in the last few months, some more than once, and there hasn’t been a lot of upward movement yet.

Canvas’s MYGA rates that are still available for another week are the highest that I know of. Canvas is rated B++ by AM Best.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Hebell »

I only buy MYGAs from companies with comdex scores of 89 or higher. Which means A+ or higher. I buy jumbo MYGAs for better rates. You can get the comdex rating on Stan the annuity man's website, scroll down to the very bottom pick comdex, and then on that page there's a link to a PDF that's updated regularly.

On the person with the Fidelity 401k question above, yes we have one too. You will have to roll it over into an IRA at fidelity. You cannot do it in the 401K. We spent several phone calls understanding how it would work. So instead we buy our TIPS within that 401k and elected not to buy mygas in that 401k.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by VTI »

Stinky wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:34 pm
gjlynch17 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:57 pm ...
To be honest, I’m surprised that Canvas has held their rates as long as they have. Most all carriers have reduced rates in the last few months, some more than once, and there hasn’t been a lot of upward movement yet.

Canvas’s MYGA rates that are still available for another week are the highest that I know of. Canvas is rated B++ by AM Best.
Gainbridge offers 3.5% on 10-year MYGA policies. It's tempting.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by indexfundfan »

gjlynch17 wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 1:57 pm I received an e-mail notice from Canvas indicating that they are dropping their rates next week (see below). Their rates are still equal to or greater than Gainbridge and insurers on main sites such as Blueprint but their rate advantage will be diminished.

"Crediting rates on Canvas’ 3, 5 and 7 year annuities will change on April 15th, 2021. To lock in our current rates, you will need to submit a signed application by April 14th, 2021. Please note that our new rates are still some of the highest on the market today. And remember, if you have already purchased a Canvas Annuity, your rate is locked in and guaranteed for the term you selected!
Rates Through 4/14/21 Rates Starting 4/15/21
3 Year - Future 2.75% 2.60%
5 Year - Future 3.25% 2.95%
7 Year - Future 3.50% 3.25%
3 Year - Flex 2.40% 2.25%
5 Year - Flex 3.00% 2.70%
7 Year - Flex 3.10% 2.85%"
When I applied in Jan, Canvas does not allow you to specify a contingent beneficiary in the application. And it's been a pain for me trying to add the contingent beneficiary after the policy was issued.

At 5 years, the Gainbridge MYGA has a comparable yield of 2.9% compared to Canvas but a much lower withdrawal penalty (3% versus 9% in the first year).
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by HueyLD »

Indexfundfan said: “ When I applied in Jan, Canvas does not allow you to specify a contingent beneficiary in the application. And it's been a pain for me trying to add the contingent beneficiary after the policy was issued.”

What is the pain?
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by spid »

Thank you all for this thread, I have a cd due and now know what to do with it!
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by sgm7091 »

Hebell wrote: Fri Apr 09, 2021 2:38 pm ....
On the person with the Fidelity 401k question above, yes we have one too. You will have to roll it over into an IRA at fidelity. You cannot do it in the 401K. We spent several phone calls understanding how it would work. So instead we buy our TIPS within that 401k and elected not to buy mygas in that 401k.
If one does back door Roth, conversion from say solo-401k to IRA for MYGA would force pro-rata taxable conversion, for Roth conversion. Thank you all everyone and OP all the experiences and insights. Very helpful.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by Stinky »

There are several other annuity agents mentioned in posts upthread, including Annuity Advantage and Stan The Annuity Man . I've looked at the websites for each, and wanted to compare them to Blueprint Income.

Both firms carry products from a wide range of insurance companies. However, not all insurance companies that are shown on one of the websites are shown on all three.

Annuity Advantage (www.annuityadvantage.com)
--- The website shows a summary of all products available through this agent in your state. It allows you to click through to the specific product that you're looking at.
--- After clicking through to a certain product, there is summary information on each product's policy provisions. The information is less detailed than the policy provision information available through Blueprint.
--- The site shows ratings from all rating agencies, rather than just AM Best as shown on the Blueprint site.
--- The website does not allow you to apply on-line, a feature that is available on Blueprint.

Stan The Annuity Man (www.stantheannuityman.com)
--- The website is somewhat rudimentary. In particular, Stan's website does not display the length of the guarantee period if you choose to display "all" products available through this agent in your state.
--- There is no product-level information available in either a summary or detail form, another short-coming compared to the other sites. In other words, you can't "click through" to a specific product.
--- AM Best and Comdex ratings only.
--- No ability to apply on-line.

My Summary
If you're a person who feels comfortable with researching MYGAs online, the agent to start with is Blueprint Income. In my opinion, their website is the most complete, and allows on-line applications. The Annuity Advantage website is second, and Stan The Annuity Man's website is a weak third.

After you've looked at Blueprint, check the other websites to see if there are attractive products offered there that don't show up on Blueprint. I've found that the interest rates for a certain company/product are the same on all of the websites, but the selection of companies shown on the websites does vary somewhat by agency.

If you choose to work with an annuity seller on the phone, I don't have an opinion to offer. All three of these companies have received positive comments on their customer service upthread. I believe that only Blueprint enables you to interact totally online and through email (I've done it).
Last edited by Stinky on Mon May 10, 2021 2:12 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Purchasing MYGAs - Blueprint Income vs. Gainbridge vs. Canvas

Post by SpaceCowboy »

Stan the Annuity Man posts Comdex ratings for insurance companies.
Also, immediateannuities.com is pretty good on rates, but no online app.
Blueprint is trying to make a fintech push. The product that they really focused on was a personal pensions, in which you’d buy lifetime income deferred to a specified retirement age in regular small amounts.
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