VG is nagging about transitioning account

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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm First when logging in, and now in hardcopy they're mailing.

What can you tell me about this transition to their new investment platform? They say it's going to happen automatically anyway in 2022, maybe earlier. Should I care about this? I don't do any purchasing or selling anymore; my investments ride in my fairly conservative allocation, and we live on pensions and SS. So the platform, I would guess, doesn't really matter much in my case.

What's your take? Have you done this?
Welcome to the forum!

I debate this and over thought it for years. Finally I converted front he “old” mutual fund platform to the “new” brokerage fund platform. Then I also converted our mutual funds to ETFs (which is not required). In hindsight I am very happy and this is no big deal at all.

I called Vanguard multiple times during the process of the above. They said each time this would happen by 2022 to everyone directly or indirectly. They said they may simply stop offering certain features or limit functionality of the old platform. I am sure some will vote with their feet and leave and I guess Vanguard does not care.

What made the decision for me? Simple. If I go anywhere else I am opening ONE type of account - a brokerage. Which I had in the past. So who cares?

I did the above to set up our accounts a position for future if I ever decide to engage Vanguard’s advisor service - PAS.

Do it and get it done with.

Best.
Tony
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

tomd37 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:08 pm If I am going to do it in 2021 or by 2022, should I consider going ahead and doing it this month anyway? My only concern might be the year-end reporting and what it is going to look like. I understand there will no longer be a year-end all inclusive year-to-date annual report, but rather four separate and not cumulative quarterly reports which will have to be retained for each year instead of one annual report to be retained.

I personally have a traditional IRA account, a Roth IRA account, and a joint taxable investment account with my spouse. My spouse has a traditional IRA account as well. In these accounts we invest in only three Vanguard mutual funds; Total Stock Market Index (VTSAX), Intermediate-Term Bond Index (VBILX), and Real Estate Index (VGSLX) if these matter in your comments. We reinvest any dividends in all the accounts and do not depend on those dividends to supplement our pension and Social Security income.
Yes do it and get it done. So easy. I wanted to avoid a self manufactured crisis.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Makefile »

alex_686 wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 8:11 am
Makefile wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 12:18 am Why any of that means you can't direct dividends between funds in brokerage? No idea!
The trick is that it is a internal transfer. You don't know the dividend that the fund is paying or the NAV of the fund you are buying until the day of. The trades have to be set up prior to the closing of the fund. If you are a external party you can't know this.

Technically the brokerage is a external party. Their could be a hack around this but I doubt that VG would be interested in pursing this. it is a rarely used complex function prone to errors. Then you have to have your representatives constantly explaining why you can do special trick between some funds - Vanguard mutual funds to other Vanguard mutual funds - and not others fund families or ETFs.
Thanks alex_686, it's always good to get your perspective. My understanding is that mutual funds at a brokerage was originally a weird edge case invented by Charles Schwab as a "supermarket" but obviously it became the norm over time. I wonder what would happen if you sent a broker a certificate withdrawal form for mutual fund shares. Would it just get rejected? The same goes for public companies--do stocks have to have a transfer agent you can use if you don't want to hold in street name?
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by OldSport »

I'm planning on doing it January 1, 2021 to avoid confusing accounting this year.

I held off transitioning specifically because of comments on this forum with only having an end of year statement on the Mutual Fund platform and having to search through each monthly statement on the brokerage account...but then the 1099-DIV is what is really needed for taxes, and the VG brokerage would have to send that anyway, right?
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by alex_686 »

Makefile wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 2:41 pm Thanks alex_686, it's always good to get your perspective. My understanding is that mutual funds at a brokerage was originally a weird edge case invented by Charles Schwab as a "supermarket" but obviously it became the norm over time. I wonder what would happen if you sent a broker a certificate withdrawal form for mutual fund shares. Would it just get rejected? The same goes for public companies--do stocks have to have a transfer agent you can use if you don't want to hold in street name?
It depends. I have been out of the physical security business for some tine. More are more securities are becoming book name only. So best to check first. However, even 20 years ago it was a very rare mutual fund that allowed the issuance of physical shares. Boy, was that a pain to work with. More common was de-networking. i.e. to hold the funds directly with the fund. But funds are now shutting down that window so that may not be a option anymore.
Former brokerage operations & mutual fund accountant. I hate risk, which is why I study and embrace it.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by AQ »

I have multiple accounts with the old platform. Can I move one account at one time, say, an account with a small balance IRA first to get a feel with the new platform and iron out wrinkles. Better yet, anyone has a link to step-by-step instructions, and FAQ, say what happens to old funds, whether I can still trade during transition, etc.?
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

AQ wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:15 pm I have multiple accounts with the old platform. Can I move one account at one time, say, an account with a small balance IRA first to get a feel with the new platform and iron out wrinkles. Better yet, anyone has a link to step-by-step instructions, and FAQ, say what happens to old funds, whether I can still trade during transition, etc.?
Yes you can. It is an account by account transition process online.

Best.
Tony
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Makefile »

AQ wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 4:15 pm I have multiple accounts with the old platform. Can I move one account at one time, say, an account with a small balance IRA first to get a feel with the new platform and iron out wrinkles. Better yet, anyone has a link to step-by-step instructions, and FAQ, say what happens to old funds, whether I can still trade during transition, etc.?
If you're doing an IRA contribution for 2021 in January anyway, you might be ahead to just open a new brokerage IRA.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

OldSport wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:28 pm I'm planning on doing it January 1, 2021 to avoid confusing accounting this year.

I held off transitioning specifically because of comments on this forum with only having an end of year statement on the Mutual Fund platform and having to search through each monthly statement on the brokerage account...but then the 1099-DIV is what is really needed for taxes, and the VG brokerage would have to send that anyway, right?
I did it mid year and realized it really is no big deal. I will simply enter the two forms of 1099. Either works.

Best.
Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by rkhusky »

I am waiting to see if Vanguard will ask why I haven't converted yet. Then I can let them know the few small changes that I would like to see in the brokerage account before converting.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Dead Man Walking »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 8:37 pm Can't you just log in and click to convert? Why the need to call at all?
I have some questions that I prefer a Vanguard representative answer on a recorded line. As a customer for more than 40 years, I think that I’m owed some handholding, especially since I have called for service about a dozen times in 4 decades.

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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by UpperNwGuy »

OldSport wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 3:28 pm I'm planning on doing it January 1, 2021 to avoid confusing accounting this year.

I held off transitioning specifically because of comments on this forum with only having an end of year statement on the Mutual Fund platform and having to search through each monthly statement on the brokerage account...but then the 1099-DIV is what is really needed for taxes, and the VG brokerage would have to send that anyway, right?
Friday January 1 is a holiday, then the weekend. The first business day of the new year will be Monday January 4. You may be stuck with a mutual fund statement for the first four or five days of 2021.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by climber2020 »

BigJohn wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:14 am
climber2020 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:14 pm
Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm What's your take? Have you done this?
I'm ignoring it and will stay on the old platform as long as possible. Much easier and faster to do a Backdoor Roth on the old platform.
Why do you say this? Backdoor Roth (helping my daughter) as well as Roth conversions (for myself) take about 3 clicks and 1 minute to execute on the new platform.
The old platform is still easier. I know because I work with both platforms every year between my spouse's Roth and mine.

Like I said in an earlier reply: eventually when I'm forced to switch, it's no big deal, but I'm not going to intentionally make my life more complicated even for something as trivial as this when switching gives me no tangible benefit whatsoever. I'm hoping by the time the transition is forced upon me by Vanguard, I'll be done working my day job and the backdoor Roth process will be something I don't have to even worry about.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

climber2020 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:04 pm
BigJohn wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:14 am
climber2020 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:14 pm
Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm What's your take? Have you done this?
I'm ignoring it and will stay on the old platform as long as possible. Much easier and faster to do a Backdoor Roth on the old platform.
Why do you say this? Backdoor Roth (helping my daughter) as well as Roth conversions (for myself) take about 3 clicks and 1 minute to execute on the new platform.
The old platform is still easier. I know because I work with both platforms every year between my spouse's Roth and mine.

Like I said in an earlier reply: eventually when I'm forced to switch, it's no big deal, but I'm not going to intentionally make my life more complicated even for something as trivial as this when switching gives me no tangible benefit whatsoever. I'm hoping by the time the transition is forced upon me by Vanguard, I'll be done working my day job and the backdoor Roth process will be something I don't have to even worry about.
It may be more complicated two run on two systems than to simply switch.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by BigJohn »

climber2020 wrote: Sun Dec 20, 2020 7:04 pm
BigJohn wrote: Sat Dec 19, 2020 10:14 am
climber2020 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:14 pm
Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm What's your take? Have you done this?
I'm ignoring it and will stay on the old platform as long as possible. Much easier and faster to do a Backdoor Roth on the old platform.
Why do you say this? Backdoor Roth (helping my daughter) as well as Roth conversions (for myself) take about 3 clicks and 1 minute to execute on the new platform.
The old platform is still easier. I know because I work with both platforms every year between my spouse's Roth and mine.

Like I said in an earlier reply: eventually when I'm forced to switch, it's no big deal, but I'm not going to intentionally make my life more complicated even for something as trivial as this when switching gives me no tangible benefit whatsoever. I'm hoping by the time the transition is forced upon me by Vanguard, I'll be done working my day job and the backdoor Roth process will be something I don't have to even worry about.
To each his/her own but for me, the simplicity of a single platform and consolidate tax statement would far outweigh something done a few times a year that’s takes a minute or less. :beer
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by climber2020 »

BigJohn wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:51 pm To each his/her own but for me, the simplicity of a single platform and consolidate tax statement would far outweigh something done a few times a year that’s takes a minute or less. :beer
Let's try to figure out why there are such differing opinions on this; I'm curious to know if we each do the backdoor Roth the same way.

Here's how I do it:

1) Old Vanguard mutual fund platform:
a) Day 1 (first business day in January): contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before markets close at 4 PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market directly to VTSAX (Total Stock) in Roth IRA.
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

2) New Vanguard brokerage platform:
a) Day 1: contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before 4PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market to Roth IRA money market Settlement fund (since I'm unable to transfer the money directly into VTSAX)
c) A few days after Day 2: wait for funds to "settle"
d) The day after step c: buy VTSAX
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

Is your Backdoor Roth process different than what I described above? I've basically been following instructions from White Coat Investor's excellent tutorial each year. Where I assume we may differ is in the very first step where my initial contribution is to a money market fund; should I be investing directly into my index fund of choice from the start?
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by mak1277 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:09 pm So you relish being a barrier to progress for no good reason? It doesn't really matter whether you see it as "progress". You appear to see it as neutral, but your service provider would like you to do it so that they can progress. If you don't care, why make it more difficult for the organization from which you derive benefit? Quite puzzling.
I only view this event as it impacts me. I couldn't care less about Vanguard progressing. I'm not interested in spending even 30 seconds doing something that isn't necessary.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

OK. You could have completed it in less time than you've spent posting in this thread. Do what you wish, by all means. I just don't particularly relate to that mindset.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by BigJohn »

climber2020 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:51 am
BigJohn wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:51 pm To each his/her own but for me, the simplicity of a single platform and consolidate tax statement would far outweigh something done a few times a year that’s takes a minute or less. :beer
Let's try to figure out why there are such differing opinions on this; I'm curious to know if we each do the backdoor Roth the same way.

Here's how I do it:

1) Old Vanguard mutual fund platform:
a) Day 1 (first business day in January): contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before markets close at 4 PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market directly to VTSAX (Total Stock) in Roth IRA.
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

2) New Vanguard brokerage platform:
a) Day 1: contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before 4PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market to Roth IRA money market Settlement fund (since I'm unable to transfer the money directly into VTSAX)
c) A few days after Day 2: wait for funds to "settle"
d) The day after step c: buy VTSAX
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

Is your Backdoor Roth process different than what I described above? I've basically been following instructions from White Coat Investor's excellent tutorial each year. Where I assume we may differ is in the very first step where my initial contribution is to a money market fund; should I be investing directly into my index fund of choice from the start?
We just had a different basis for the scope of “doing the backdoor Roth”. My starting point for both was that the money was already invested in the funds of choice and all you needed to do was the transfer. For both my daughter’s backdoor and my conversion, this is the case.

For your process on the new platform, if you’re using a linked bank account I think you can direct the contribution straight to VTSAX to eliminate some steps. I’m beyond the days of contributing but I just went online and entered a transaction like this up until the confirm step. Assuming you can do this, then your process would look like this
a) Day 1: contribute $6000 to tIRA directly into VTSAX
b) A few days after Day 1: do conversion by transferring VTSAX to Roth IRA

Certainly an interesting study in both the importance of defining the question as well as the perception of difficulty. :beer
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by mak1277 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:13 am OK. You could have completed it in less time than you've spent posting in this thread. Do what you wish, by all means. I just don't particularly relate to that mindset.
reading and posting at bogleheads is higher on my list of interests than doing account administration for Vanguard. If they want to transition me, they should do the work. I'm assuming that's what will eventually happen...they'll just do it for me.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by FelixTheCat »

buhlaxtus wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:54 pm I did this some time ago and it was not a big deal.
+1
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by criticalmass »

Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm First when logging in, and now in hardcopy they're mailing.

What can you tell me about this transition to their new investment platform? They say it's going to happen automatically anyway in 2022, maybe earlier. Should I care about this? I don't do any purchasing or selling anymore; my investments ride in my fairly conservative allocation, and we live on pensions and SS. So the platform, I would guess, doesn't really matter much in my case.

What's your take? Have you done this?
If you have direct deposit option enabled in the Vanguard website (not necessarily used), I've noticed Vanguard doesn't pester about converting.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by sycamore »

mak1277 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:58 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:13 am OK. You could have completed it in less time than you've spent posting in this thread. Do what you wish, by all means. I just don't particularly relate to that mindset.
reading and posting at bogleheads is higher on my list of interests than doing account administration for Vanguard. If they want to transition me, they should do the work. I'm assuming that's what will eventually happen...they'll just do it for me.
They can't "just do it" for you. The transition involves you signing a legal agreement with a different entity - you're going from dealing with a mutual fund company to a brokerage.

Personally I think the mutual fund accounts will be around for years to come. We'll see. If the web site and/or customer service for mutual fund accounts get so bad in the future (hypothetically), then I'd either transition or transfer assets to another broker.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by mak1277 »

sycamore wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 2:59 pm
mak1277 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 12:58 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:13 am OK. You could have completed it in less time than you've spent posting in this thread. Do what you wish, by all means. I just don't particularly relate to that mindset.
reading and posting at bogleheads is higher on my list of interests than doing account administration for Vanguard. If they want to transition me, they should do the work. I'm assuming that's what will eventually happen...they'll just do it for me.
They can't "just do it" for you. The transition involves you signing a legal agreement with a different entity - you're going from dealing with a mutual fund company to a brokerage.

Personally I think the mutual fund accounts will be around for years to come. We'll see. If the web site and/or customer service for mutual fund accounts get so bad in the future (hypothetically), then I'd either transition or transfer assets to another broker.
Well that's annoying. I'll continue to wait until I have no choice. I like the website and I have never had to use customer service, so I have literally no incentive to do anything.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by LynnC »

If you have direct deposit option enabled in the Vanguard website (not necessarily used), I've noticed Vanguard doesn't pester about converting.

They are now sending me weekly mail! I have ONE admiral IRA and do no trading, so why should I change and have to redo my banking plus be bothered on the brokerage side when I am not trading? I am doing nothing and the constant nagging is getting very old.I have direct deposit

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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Trev H »

I considered Transitioning and per the email I got from them... "3 steps and only takes a few minutes"..... click here to start...

I started just to check it out and was soon informed that I had some accounts that could not be transitioned (they did not show up in the transition list). ESA's for my two kids.

I backed out of the Transition after getting that message.

I assume that if I went thru with it... I would then have two accounts at vanguard (one brokerage with most of my stuff in it) and another mutual funds with my kids ESA's in it. Who wants that...

I may consider it again when those ESA's are drained... which should be in the next year.

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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

They're already different accounts.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by beyou »

I encountered first case of technology not supporting clients that do not transition. New “Beacon” app “does not support your type of accounts”. I have a taxable, and IRAs. Only thing I can assume they meant was old platform is not supported. Not a good reason to transition since this new app is a useless beta version. But a sign of things to come.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

How do you know it's useless if you can't use it? :wink:

You're right, by the way.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Nate79 »

beyou wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:21 am I encountered first case of technology not supporting clients that do not transition. New “Beacon” app “does not support your type of accounts”. I have a taxable, and IRAs. Only thing I can assume they meant was old platform is not supported. Not a good reason to transition since this new app is a useless beta version. But a sign of things to come.
I recall this was mentioned in a previous thread in communication with Vanguard that this would be one of the first capabilities taken away from mutual fund accounts.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by CalculatedRisk »

Eagle33 wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 2:36 am Does anyone know what year VG' MF/ETF patent runs out - maybe 2023? The push to brokerage accounts and ETFs seem to have unspoken agenda.
Unlikely this has anything to do with Vanguard’s patents. A patent is a right to exclude others from doing something (e.g., Vanguard can prevent Fidelity from using their idea), it is not a right to do something (e.g., having a patent doesn’t give you the right to practice the idea—you may be infringing on someone else’s patent).
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by beyou »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 8:58 am How do you know it's useless if you can't use it? :wink:

You're right, by the way.
I installed the app, and gave feedback to Vanguard.
There is an "iPad" version but it does not follow the rotate/orientation.
I have a bluetooth keyboard/case but can't use it with this app since the orientation is fixed the opposite way.
People don't hold an iPad like a phone, so why call it an "iPad" version and expect people to hold it like a phone ?

Also I can see the menu choices and it has almost none of the functions on the old app, which is less capable than the website.

I do plan to transition for other reasons, but won't bother installing this app for a long time even when my accounts are supported on it.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

I noticed that the calculated investment gains over all time periods are WAY too high. Wish it was right, though!
Last edited by Cheez-It Guy on Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by ruralavalon »

Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm First when logging in, and now in hardcopy they're mailing.

What can you tell me about this transition to their new investment platform? They say it's going to happen automatically anyway in 2022, maybe earlier. Should I care about this? I don't do any purchasing or selling anymore; my investments ride in my fairly conservative allocation, and we live on pensions and SS. So the platform, I would guess, doesn't really matter much in my case.

What's your take? Have you done this?
We transitioned our accounts recently, it was not a big deal.

I am retired, we live on Social Security and Required Minimum Distributions (RMDs) from my rollover IRA, and do no buying or selling otherwise.
"Everything should be as simple as it is, but not simpler." - Albert Einstein | Wiki article link:Getting Started
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by jeffreys »

I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by tomd37 »

Jeffreys - Are you talking about converting mutual funds or ETFs?
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by jeffreys »

tomd37 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:22 pm Jeffreys - Are you talking about converting mutual funds or ETFs?
Mutual funds.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

Having completed the transition and also moving to ETFs I don’t see this as a big deal. In fact, the bigger deal is not doing it and starting to lose features with the old system.

Go for it!

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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:10 pm I notified that the calculated investment gains over all time periods are WAY too high. Wish it was right, though!
Did you call Vanguard?

Tony
John C. Bogle: “Simplicity is the master key to financial success."
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by nalor511 »

jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:10 pm I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
This is the reason I am not transitioning. Earlier in the year there was a post by someone who wanted to convert x dollars, but instead the brokerage platform did x shares, and so they have irrevocably created hundreds of thousands of extra taxable income this year. They explored VG and IRS avenues and were not allowed to undo it.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by jeffreys »

nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:01 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:10 pm I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
This is the reason I am not transitioning. Earlier in the year there was a post by someone who wanted to convert x dollars, but instead the brokerage platform did x shares, and so they have irrevocably created hundreds of thousands of extra taxable income this year. They explored VG and IRS avenues and were not allowed to undo it.
I have read similar horror stories and am extra cautious now. I didn't submit my Roth conversion when I discovered this change today, just did the computation on how many shares equal the dollar amount I want to convert. I'm going to sit on it for the holiday weekend and likely pull the trigger on Monday.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by nalor511 »

jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:11 pm
nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:01 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:10 pm I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
This is the reason I am not transitioning. Earlier in the year there was a post by someone who wanted to convert x dollars, but instead the brokerage platform did x shares, and so they have irrevocably created hundreds of thousands of extra taxable income this year. They explored VG and IRS avenues and were not allowed to undo it.
I have read similar horror stories and am extra cautious now. I didn't submit my Roth conversion when I discovered this change today, just did the computation on how many shares equal the dollar amount I want to convert. I'm going to sit on it for the holiday weekend and likely pull the trigger on Monday.
Obv sure you can just calc shares. But would I remember that in a year? Two? Ten? Yikes.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by rkhusky »

nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:28 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:11 pm
nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:01 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:10 pm I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
This is the reason I am not transitioning. Earlier in the year there was a post by someone who wanted to convert x dollars, but instead the brokerage platform did x shares, and so they have irrevocably created hundreds of thousands of extra taxable income this year. They explored VG and IRS avenues and were not allowed to undo it.
I have read similar horror stories and am extra cautious now. I didn't submit my Roth conversion when I discovered this change today, just did the computation on how many shares equal the dollar amount I want to convert. I'm going to sit on it for the holiday weekend and likely pull the trigger on Monday.
Obv sure you can just calc shares. But would I remember that in a year? Two? Ten? Yikes.
Vanguard estimates what the dollar amount will be, provides labels on the different quantities, has different number of decimal places, plus dollar amounts have a dollar sign.

You would really have to not be paying attention to make such a mistake. Like typing with your eyes closed.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

abuss368 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:44 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:10 pm I noticed that the calculated investment gains over all time periods are WAY too high. Wish it was right, though!
Did you call Vanguard?

Tony
I have not done so yet. It looks like it may be tied to certain outside linked accounts, as the numbers look reasonable for another simpler account on which I'm an authorized agent. Or actually, maybe that's it. I think it's possibly including the amounts for the other account I can access, but which is normally hidden from display on my login and therefore not included in my individual performance data.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by palanzo »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Dec 18, 2020 3:09 pm So you relish being a barrier to progress for no good reason? It doesn't really matter whether you see it as "progress". You appear to see it as neutral, but your service provider would like you to do it so that they can progress. If you don't care, why make it more difficult for the organization from which you derive benefit? Quite puzzling.
Vanguard has a large number of accounts that are not even online. So we are not the barrier to progress. Those that do everything my mail or telephone are in your words. Shaming those that want to stay on the mutual fund only platform for various reasons is not helpful.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by nalor511 »

rkhusky wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:08 pm
nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:28 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:11 pm
nalor511 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 8:01 pm
jeffreys wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 6:10 pm I made the change this summer-ish when Vanguard starting nagging me. I believe this has been mentioned already but today I started looking at the process of doing a Roth conversion and discovered I can no longer do it by dollar only by shares! That is fine, but annoying. I did some searches on the topic and found a post from nearly 5 years ago replicating the steps that I did only to come to the same conclusion. So, it's not new for the brokerage accounts, but still bugged me!
This is the reason I am not transitioning. Earlier in the year there was a post by someone who wanted to convert x dollars, but instead the brokerage platform did x shares, and so they have irrevocably created hundreds of thousands of extra taxable income this year. They explored VG and IRS avenues and were not allowed to undo it.
I have read similar horror stories and am extra cautious now. I didn't submit my Roth conversion when I discovered this change today, just did the computation on how many shares equal the dollar amount I want to convert. I'm going to sit on it for the holiday weekend and likely pull the trigger on Monday.
Obv sure you can just calc shares. But would I remember that in a year? Two? Ten? Yikes.
Vanguard estimates what the dollar amount will be, provides labels on the different quantities, has different number of decimal places, plus dollar amounts have a dollar sign.

You would really have to not be paying attention to make such a mistake. Like typing with your eyes closed.
Happened to the tune of $191,500 over conversion viewtopic.php?t=308310
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by abuss368 »

Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:56 pm
abuss368 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:44 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:10 pm I noticed that the calculated investment gains over all time periods are WAY too high. Wish it was right, though!
Did you call Vanguard?

Tony
I have not done so yet. It looks like it may be tied to certain outside linked accounts, as the numbers look reasonable for another simpler account on which I'm an authorized agent. Or actually, maybe that's it. I think it's possibly including the amounts for the other account I can access, but which is normally hidden from display on my login and therefore not included in my individual performance data.
You can click on accounts and uncheck.
Tony
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by calvin+hobbes »

eye.surgeon wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 10:45 pm
climber2020 wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 9:14 pm
Gatto Bialetti wrote: Thu Dec 17, 2020 8:42 pm What's your take? Have you done this?
I'm ignoring it and will stay on the old platform as long as possible. Much easier and faster to do a Backdoor Roth on the old platform.
Exactly. My wife's account was transitioned to the new format, mine is the old. For me a backdoor Roth is a couple clicks, and fast. For her it's a ridiculous jumping through multiple hoops and several days of pointless waiting.
Dang. Transitioned a few weeks ago. First time hearing that the backdoor Roth is going to be a a struggle compared to the old platform. Everything else seems fine.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Cheez-It Guy »

abuss368 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 10:20 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 9:56 pm
abuss368 wrote: Fri Dec 25, 2020 7:44 pm
Cheez-It Guy wrote: Thu Dec 24, 2020 12:10 pm I noticed that the calculated investment gains over all time periods are WAY too high. Wish it was right, though!
Did you call Vanguard?

Tony
I have not done so yet. It looks like it may be tied to certain outside linked accounts, as the numbers look reasonable for another simpler account on which I'm an authorized agent. Or actually, maybe that's it. I think it's possibly including the amounts for the other account I can access, but which is normally hidden from display on my login and therefore not included in my individual performance data.
You can click on accounts and uncheck.
Tony
I'm talking about specific issues with the new Beacon app. This really isn't the right thread for it. No issues with the full website.
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Re: VG is nagging about transitioning account

Post by Adfmacro »

BigJohn wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 11:55 am
climber2020 wrote: Tue Dec 22, 2020 4:51 am
BigJohn wrote: Mon Dec 21, 2020 4:51 pm To each his/her own but for me, the simplicity of a single platform and consolidate tax statement would far outweigh something done a few times a year that’s takes a minute or less. :beer
Let's try to figure out why there are such differing opinions on this; I'm curious to know if we each do the backdoor Roth the same way.

Here's how I do it:

1) Old Vanguard mutual fund platform:
a) Day 1 (first business day in January): contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before markets close at 4 PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market directly to VTSAX (Total Stock) in Roth IRA.
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

2) New Vanguard brokerage platform:
a) Day 1: contribute $6000 to money market fund in traditional IRA before 4PM EST.
b) Day 2: convert funds from Trad IRA money market to Roth IRA money market Settlement fund (since I'm unable to transfer the money directly into VTSAX)
c) A few days after Day 2: wait for funds to "settle"
d) The day after step c: buy VTSAX
Backdoor Roth is done for the year.

Is your Backdoor Roth process different than what I described above? I've basically been following instructions from White Coat Investor's excellent tutorial each year. Where I assume we may differ is in the very first step where my initial contribution is to a money market fund; should I be investing directly into my index fund of choice from the start?
We just had a different basis for the scope of “doing the backdoor Roth”. My starting point for both was that the money was already invested in the funds of choice and all you needed to do was the transfer. For both my daughter’s backdoor and my conversion, this is the case.

For your process on the new platform, if you’re using a linked bank account I think you can direct the contribution straight to VTSAX to eliminate some steps. I’m beyond the days of contributing but I just went online and entered a transaction like this up until the confirm step. Assuming you can do this, then your process would look like this
a) Day 1: contribute $6000 to tIRA directly into VTSAX
b) A few days after Day 1: do conversion by transferring VTSAX to Roth IRA

Certainly an interesting study in both the importance of defining the question as well as the perception of difficulty. :beer
I don't have an experience with a backdoor Roth, but when contributing, my funds are input to go into the allocation I desire. Although at first it shows up in my settlement account, without me doing anything further, it gets processed to allocation of my choice. It is a mutual fund, so it has wait for end of the business day to complete the transaction. It may be a lot briefer in the settlement account if it is destined for an ETF. It might skip the settlement account completely.
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